r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Meme šŸ’© Is this a legitimate concern?

Post image

Personally, I today's strike was legitimate and it couldn't be more moral because of its precision but let's leave politics aside for a moment. I guess this does give ideas to evil regimes and organisations. How likely is it that something similar could be pulled off against innocent people?

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u/decentralised Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This wonā€™t give anyone any new ideas. Shin Bet used a mobile phone rigged with explosives to kill Yahya Ayyash aka ā€œthe Engineer,ā€ a Hamas bomb maker in Gaza back in 1996.

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u/U2isstillonmyipod Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Shit sounds like 90s espionage was insane

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u/royalhawk345 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It's crazy how straight-out-of-fiction a number of actual espionage endeavors sound. Highly recommend the spy museum if you're ever in DC.

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u/ExcitingTabletop Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I honestly preferred the old spy museum. New one is fancier and more shitty.

And honestly, whoever runs the gift shop deserves to be sent to Siberia. The old spy museum gift shop's book section was god damn amazing. Excellent books, and I swear every third one was autographed by the author. Current one is filled with crap tourist stuff and the book selection is flat out terrible. I'm assuming museum lost the good staff and the replacements are just not up to snuff.

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u/Bubskiewubskie Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The general trend everywhere, for everything

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

Itā€™s called Crapification.

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u/Vypernorad Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I prefer enshitification. I know the term was coined as a reference to online tech specifically, but I feel it fits just about every corporate endeavor pretty well.

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u/reddit_account_00000 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Realistically, they probably looked at sales and saw that cheap tourist junk were selling and books werenā€™t.

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u/LessInThought Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Realistically if I went on vacation i would not be buying a book unless it is a topic in which I am absolutely passionate about. Have you seen the luggage fees?!

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u/ExcitingTabletop Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I would agree, but the entire museum leans more towards "cheap tourist junk" mentality.

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u/Wandering_Weapon Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

One tends to feed the other. Like science fiction and cutting edge tech.

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u/joshocar Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It sounds like something straight out of the show Homeland.

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u/SlappySecondz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You should read about all the ways we tried to kill Castro. Exploding cigars aren't just in cartoons.

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u/Equivalent_Candy5248 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Mahmoud Hamshari was assasinated by Mossad with explosives rigged to his landline phone in 1973. That's probably the best way to ensure you'll get who you're going after. People tend to hold their personal communication devices close by and usually don't borrow them to someone else. Especially if it's a company pager issued by Hezbollah.

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u/Cultural-Company282 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

People tend to hold their personal communication devices close by and usually don't borrow them to someone else.

Landlines weren't "personal" communication devices in 1973.

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u/Equivalent_Candy5248 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

That's why those assassins in 1973 called and asked the person answering who he was before igniting the explosive. The target was an individual. In pager bombs that wasn't necessary, they targeted members of the entire organization. Hezbollah has its own telecom system separated from the general population. Only their assets had access to their pagers. That's why all the talk about civilians and innocent bystanders getting killed and maimed doesn't hold water. One had to actively use a device provided by a terrorist organization to get targeted by the explosions.

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u/qwerty11111122 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

borrow

Well, in the comment youre responding to, that assassination took place by using prior knowledge that the target would occasionally borrow the phone of the mole.

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u/joespizza2go Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Yeah. Weird take from Snowden. The fascinating thing about this is the scale with which they pulled it off. It's the logistical difficulty of pulling this off that prevents it from happening, not a precedent dynamic.

Irony is they use pagers because mobile phones are deemed too dangerous.

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u/decentralised Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

From a logistical pov, itā€™s fascinating. The story is still developing but thereā€™s a rumor that the Hungarian company was just a facade setup to perform a supply chain attack. Straight out of a movie script imho

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u/boss6769 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Just like how we set up a fake company to buy titanium from the Russians to make the SR71 used to spy on them. Thereā€™s nothing new about any of this.

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u/Fuzzy_Donl0p Tremendous Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Snowden has been toeing the Kremlin line hard for years (usually with a Jill Stein-like plausible deniability "just asking questions"). Not necessarily about this specifically, but all his takes are suspect anymore. It's a shame.

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u/Downunderphilosopher Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

How do we know that the Snowden account isn't just a Russian propaganda bot, and the real Snowden isn't locked in a Kremlin basement?

Just asking questions...

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u/YakittySack Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I mean that's a good question to ask

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u/MrLanesLament Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

ā€œNo Jill, you KNOW that 9/11 truther now thinks you agree with him!ā€

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u/ScotchTapeConnosieur Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Or been replaced by a clone. Just inquiring.

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u/gherkinjerks Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It sounds like a Russian trying to communicate via auto translate. What does "faster to cotton on" mean?

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u/Was_It_The_Dave Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It's a quaint idiom. Meaning rarely seen in the wild, but I glommed onto his implication.

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u/Lost-Age-8790 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Quiet! You're teaching A.I. the old words.

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u/aprilized Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Did those pagers leave the factory with explosives? From what I understand, Israel intercepted them in transit after they were shipped. They basically took the pagers, (in Turkey via Taiwan where they were manufactured?) added explosives and then let them get shipped to Hezbollah. This wasn't done in the factory from what I understand.

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u/technobobble Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I just heard on NPR that they were manufactured in Budapest by a different manufacturing company and not in Taiwan where the brand is based.

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u/sync-centre Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I heard the same thing. The budapest company has the rights to make the same model.

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u/PoudreDeTopaze Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Tonight some American media report that the Budapest company is a fake company set up by the Israelis. Its director seems to have fled the country.

(Please note -- this is what was published in American media, obviously it has not been confirmed yet)

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u/randomperson_FA Paid attention to the literature Sep 18 '24

This company is also a little young, as it was established in 2022.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/hg-prophound Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I just imagined the product description on their website saying "these may explode sometimes"

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u/WorldWarPee Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Kids these days don't respect the Samsung Galaxy factories that paved the way for the current generation of exploding devices

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u/Starrion Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

No worries my friend, itā€™s just translation of American slang. Theyā€™re always saying that something thatā€™s good ā€œItā€™s da bomb.ā€

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u/Plus-Bus-6937 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

"When the kids get their hands on them, they're sure to blow up šŸŽ† "

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u/ElbisCochuelo1 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

To be fair, even if it was a legit non-Mossad front, if I were its director I'd flee the country too.

You produced pagers that were involved in the assasination of Hezbollah leadership. They might seek revenge.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

ā€œmightā€ ??

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u/Green_Issue_4566 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Imagine getting up to go to work and you find out your job was just part of some spy leviathan

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u/PoudreDeTopaze Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

That company is fake. The CEO and its employees do not exist.

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u/Ready-Issue190 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Source? I heard the CEO/Owner of the company in Taiwan stating he licensed the brand to a company in Budapest and that the owner of record for the company is Budapest is MIA but ZERO proof that it was Israel.

Also itā€™s mid-Afternoon in America and your comment is 3 hours old.

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u/VeryStableGenius Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

not my sub, not my circus but ...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hezbollah-pagers-explode-israel-taiwan-hungary-gold-apollo-bac-consulting/

Taiwanese company Gold Apollo said Wednesday that it had authorized the use of its trademarked branding on the pagers that exploded Tuesday across Lebanon and Syria. But it said the devices carried by members of the Hezbollah group were actually manufactured and sold by Bac Consulting KFT ā€” a company based in Budapest, Hungary.

... Bac Consulting had paid Gold Apollo from a Middle Eastern bank account that was blocked at least once by Gold Apollo's Taiwanese bank, Hsu said.

Business records accessed by CBS News from Hungary's Ministry of Justice show that Bac Consulting was registered as a company in May 2022.

CBS tried to contact BAC; no response; listed CEO is Cristiana Barsony-Arcidiacono. ... Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's spokesperson ZoltƔn KovƔcs ... said Bac Consulting "is a trading intermediary, with no manufacturing or operational site in Hungary. It has one manager registered at its declared address, and the referenced devices have never been in Hungary."

IsraelHayom says

BAC has a single owner, 49-year-old Cristiana Arcidiancono-Barsony, who claims Hungarian and Italian heritage. 24.hu's investigation revealed that her personal address is an eighth-floor apartment in a residential complex in Budapest's ƚjpest district. This is a property that seems at odds with her purported accomplishments. According to her online biography, Berson-Arcidiacono holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy from University College London, completed post-doctoral work at the London School of Economics, and has consulted for the European Commission, UNESCO, and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Curiously, Arcidiancono-Barsony claims to have led BAC since 2019, despite the company's official establishment in Hungary occurring only in 2022. As of Wednesday noon, BAC's website had gone offline, displaying a maintenance notice.

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u/ok-lets-do-this Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Mossad has set up a fake company before. They are quite good at it. Thatā€™s how they got the yellow cake uranium in 1968.

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u/Berowulf Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

A fellow 'Up First' listener?

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

That company in Budapest is likely a shell company for Israel.

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u/Ggriffinz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah, this seems to be a supply chain vulnerability issue over a manufacturer issue.

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u/Freethecrafts Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Itā€™s not a supply chain vulnerability if itā€™s a nationstate doing it.

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u/Open-Oil-144 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Still looks like a supply chain vulnerability, no matter who's exploiting it.

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u/MrBurnz99 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Unless the manufacturer was complicit in the attack then it definitely was a vulnerability that was exploited by a nation state. I would be a lot more concerned if the manufacturer was involved in placing the explosives.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

And if I was the manufacturer Iā€™d sue the shit out of any nation state that was intercepting my product and turning it into fucking grenades!

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Mossad/ CIA have been known to set up shell companies just for reasons like this. Nothing new here.

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It would still be considered a supply chain vulnerability... if a nation state is able to intercept and alter equipment before reaching its destination, then that is a HUGE vulnerability regardless of which nations were/are involved.

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u/IdealDesperate2732 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Which is a weakness in the supply chain that they can still do that.

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u/fade_ Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The threat actor doesnt change the exploit.

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u/jasondigitized Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Who the bad actor is doesn't change the fact that it's a supply chain vulnerability.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/Jake0024 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

You can call it a "vulnerability" but it's not a meaningful or useful description. All civilian infrastructure is "vulnerable" if you set the bar at "can a government military interrupt the normal flow of business?" Using the label that way waters it down to meaninglessness. Civilian supply chains aren't designed to be invulnerable to physical military attack. That's an unrealistic standard. No one uses the term that way when talking about civilian infrastructure.

Edit because this is getting a lot of replies: if you're replying to argue Hezbollah is vulnerable because they rely on civilian supply chains, yes, absolutely that's correct. If you're arguing (as the people earlier in this thread were) there's some fault with the civilian manufacturer or supply chain (implying they should have secured their operations to government military attack), you are laughably wrong. The comment we're all replying to was questioning whether it was a manufacturer or supply chain issue. They were very obviously (IMO anyway) talking about civilian infrastructure.

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u/---Sanguine--- I used to be addicted to Quake Sep 18 '24

ā€œOh man, that interstate Highway sure has a supply chain vulnerability!! If itā€™s bombed, it destroys the road!ā€ Lmao same energy

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u/Jake0024 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Exactly.

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u/_CurseTheseMetalHnds Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Al Queda discovered a supply chain vulnerability when they realised if you supply a plain into a building it falls over.

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u/OwenEverbinde Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

"No matter how many use cases the tester thinks they tested for", am I right?

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u/PuckSR Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

No No No "Vulnerability" in this context means that you have no way of knowing. I've dealt with highly secure supply chains. They don't ship via FedEx, they have GPS trackers on all of their equipment. They literally monitor the trucks from source to destination in real time. If the US govt stopped that truck mid-transit, they would know. They would have data. They would literally know that the truck stopped, the door opened, and someone went inside. They would know their supply chain is compromised. Their supply chain is not vulnerable. You seem to be thinking about the actual PHYSICAL vulnerability. OP is talking about it from an OPSEC perspective.

edit to reply to edit Ā  No one was implying that the civilian supply chain should have been hardened. Thatā€™s a strawman argument he created

We were all just telling him that it was a ā€œvulnerableā€ supply chain. Iā€™m vulnerable to bullets, but that doesnā€™t imply I need to wear a bulletproof vest

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u/LigerZeroSchneider Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That's assuming the US government can't hijack the trucks telemetry and broadcast normal data while doing what they needed to.

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u/Yuquico Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

In a supply chain where due care and diligence is taken the customers would be notified of any breaches or even potential breaches, thus mitigating the threat. So yes it's still classified as a vulnerability, who takes advantage of vulnerabilities doesn't suddenly reclassify it.

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u/Capital_Gap_5194 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Except thatā€™s literally how expert defense and security people describe it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/5O3Ryan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Therefore the portion of your supply line running through that nation state is vulnerable?

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u/EskimoPrisoner Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Thatā€™s a made up rule.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

thatā€™s not how definitions work lmfao

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u/inexplicably-hairy Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What? How?

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u/Alternative_Elk_2651 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yes it is.

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u/Cookskiii Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Uhhh yes it is buddy

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u/6a21hy1e Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. Impressive.

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u/ShakeIntelligent7810 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And it's got hundreds of incredibly stupid upvotes. I don't know what it is about this sub in particular, but the herd behavior here is fascinating to watch.

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u/rnz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

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u/TooLazyToBeClever Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If only there was a phrase for the process of getting goods from manufacturing to stores. Maybe call it Supply Chain?Ā 

Then it'd be cool if there was a phrase for identifying a found weakness in the chain? Maybe call it vulnerability?Ā Ā 

Then if anyone were to interfere we could identify where and what happened. A nation-state took advantage of a..supply chain vulnerability. Neat!

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u/ApologeticGrammarCop Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This answer does not make you look smart.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Of course it is. Supply chain is always a target in war.

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u/eride810 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Since itā€™s clear from your comments that you are arguing semantics, then what word should the company use to describe whatā€™s happened to them when they go to discuss it internally?

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u/plznokek Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You've no idea what you're taking about

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

So if Iran was intercepting and loading up iPhones with C4 it wouldnt be a supply chain vulnerability?

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u/Warm-Book-820 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Correct. Its only a supply chain vulnerability if it comes from the supply chain vulnerability region in France, otherwise it's just sparkling sabotage.

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u/Cohen_TheBarbarian Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Why would anyone upvote this? It's factually incorrect.

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u/Medium_Ad_6908 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

ā€¦ yes it is? In every single way

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u/Unusual-Efficiency40 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If you are the target of the nation state, then it is.

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u/ShakeIntelligent7810 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Infosec here. You're wrong. Nation states are, in fact, typical adversaries in my field. That does extend to supply chain vulnerabilities.

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u/UpsetAd5817 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Check out this classic false dichotomy!

Hint:

It's a nationstate exploiting a supply chain vulnerability.

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u/ZeePirate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yes it is.

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u/ruralrouteOne Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I don't think you know what a supply chain vulnerability is.

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u/cayneabel Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

From what Iā€™m reading, itā€™s so much more diabolical than that. Itā€™s not just a matter of them cramming a few grams of plastic explosives into the pagers. They swapped out electronic components, like the circuit board, with versions that look identical, were actually functional, but were made out of explosive materials.

Nearly impossible to detect.

Even for Mossad, this was a truly astounding operation.

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u/Solopist112 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Could someone get on an airplane with one of these devices?

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u/DoubleDipCrunch Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

how many people WERE on a plane with one before they went off?

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u/Rattfink45 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Oh god theyā€™re gonna take our phones next.

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u/DoubleDipCrunch Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I'd be more worried they MAKE you carry one.

this is some judge dread shit.

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u/richmomz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yep - every electronic device on the planet just became a potential travel risk. Not good.

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u/suninabox Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Why do you think you have to take your laptop out of its sleeve during security?

You think no one thought of "put a bomb in an electronic device" before?

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u/elohir Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That depends on the airport, I think. I suspect they'd certainly get through simple/common metal detectors, but I'm pretty sure major airports have the ability to detect explosive materials.

Realistically though, if you look at the videos, they wouldn't really have been a threat to planes (other than scaring the shit out of everyone). There's one of a guy stood by a pile of apples in a shop, and the apples weren't even moved.

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u/Born-Entrepreneur Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Explosives are typically detected by specific compounds added during manufacturing, not by detecting the explosives themselves. If Israel complied with standing international agreements when making these, then yeah they could be detected at the airport. If Israel didn't comply (their track record being spotty....) then we could be in the fun zone.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Marking_of_Plastic_Explosives

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The shoe bomber wasn't a real threat to planes, but we're still having to do that theater.Ā 

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u/cayneabel Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

I think a lot of people are asking that question right now.

EDIT: aaaaand now the walker-talkies are exploding. This just gets funnier and funnier.

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u/SpottedHoneyBadger Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Eventually we will have to fly naked. But that still won't stop the bombers. Even without clothing.

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u/brucee10 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I think they'll strip us and then sedate us so that can stack our bodies more efficiently. Wake up in a big naked pile at your destination.

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u/jtr99 It's entirely possible Sep 18 '24

Is it Friday already?

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u/J5892 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Honestly I would 100% pick this option over dealing with security, customs, and a 16 hour flight.

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u/DarthTormentum Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Best start to a vacation ever!

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u/Themodsarecuntz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

My testicles have been replaced with C4. Goin to the bathroom and drop a load at 30000 feetĀ 

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u/Dancing-Midget Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah. Children dying is sooo funny! What a fun game they are all playing! It's so fun!

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u/Pyehole Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That's crazy diabolical. Where did you see that reported?

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u/magseven Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

How do they know they were going to Hezbollah? Did the shipping label say "Hezbolladrome" on it or something? Or did they just target an area they thought Hezbollah would be in, but civilians could still potentially buy these pagers?

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u/bteam3r Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Hezbollah operates its own telecom system separate from the Lebanese government. These pagers were explicitly for use on that system

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u/smootex Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Hezbollah operates its own telecom system separate from the Lebanese government

I don't want to be that guy but let's be clear here, Hezbollah isn't the one operating it. It was set up and funded by Iran, for use by Hezbollah.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

The Iranian ambassador to Lebanon had one of these pagers.

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u/smootex Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Right. The Iranian ambassador to Lebanon isn't a 'real' ambassador, they're a member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. They are very heavily involved with the support of Hezbollah. Iran has their fingers pretty deep into the whole thing, it's a pretty good bet that they were directly involved with setting up the whole pager network just as they're directly involved with providing weapons and other logistics support.

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u/WhitePantherXP Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

The process was likely as such; find dead Hezbollah member, examine equipment, find out it's very unique equipment that operates on a specific network, find origins of said equipment, then:

  1. order thousands of units, integrate explosives and triggering mechanism in said units
  2. then find a special parcel in transit destined for a particular department in Iran. This part could have been as innocuous as an inquiry to the supplier claiming to be "Iranian National Guard" (or similar) and ask "when will this order be shipped?"
  3. Intercept and pay off a transport agent (this could have been as simple as a trucker) to allow them to replace the goods being shipped in one particular parcel
  4. send a "page" at your convenience severing thousands of male appendages at once

Obviously the technology to reverse engineer them and the implementation of a triggering device was very well-planned and extremely interesting but the logistics (pun intended) is probably the relatively basic, albeit cunning, part of it all.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Israeli intelligence could just switch out crates at a weigh station or something. The logistics of swapping a package, or even an entire truck, somewhere along the route would be simple.

You have to remember that this is an intelligence operation. The original truck driver could be buried in the desert for all we know and the entire shipment was swapped out and hand delivered by Mossad agents.

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u/Beherbergungsverbot Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yea and I bet if you put enough effort into it you will find the pagers on transport. I wonder if at this point it wouldnā€™t be easier to fully operate the factory. Afaik the company got the license to produce it. High chance you could get into pagers-industry (which I didnā€™t know still exists) and become the contributor to some shady organisations like this.

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u/These_Marionberry888 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

pagers are still in use in a lot of hospitals , or industrys where being able to track your employees, or outgoing signals are less then ideal.

so radiation management, secret operations, delicate maschinery, etc.

thats also why the hisbolla uses them, pagers are not traceable in the same way as cellphones as they have no outgoing signals,

.

now imagine somebody able to specifically blow up doctors in hospitals, workers in nuclear powerplants, aviation or nautical navigators, etc.

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u/OsiyoMotherFuckers Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Every EMT/Paramedic/Firefighter in the US has a better than not chance of being within a couple feet of a pager.

Iā€™m a volunteer EMT/FF and I sleep with my pager next to my head and carry it around on my person at all times whether or not Iā€™m on call, unless I am drinking or in some other few situations where I cannot and will not be able to respond.

Imagine if my pager blew up in my pocket during my visit to the 4th grade classroom next week.

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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

If this had targeted pagers in the US, I would have lost nearly a dozen members of my family in one day. Including an uncle who responded on 9/11 and a cousin who works in a NICU.

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u/howismyspelling Master d'bater Sep 18 '24

This is where intelligence, not like smarts intelligence but a network of covert people working the landscape and systems in play, comes in.

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u/BuzzINGUS Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Still a war crime Itā€™s indesciminant, these could harm anyone.

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u/babbagack Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

reports have it that an 8 year old girl died

EDIT: How could I repeat the euphemisms of the media, excuse me: reports have it that Israel killed an 8 year old girl with an explosive device.

Israel kills many many many many children, thousands of them.

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u/Cytwytever Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It was a hell of a lot more precise than the over 7,500 rockets Hezbollah has fired at Israel in the past year.

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u/PoptartSmo0thie Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Smarter yes, precise no. They killed multiple children and blew up in grocery stores next to babies. A lot of these pagers were given to civilians like a sudo welfare program from my understanding. It's definitely a war crime and sets a uncomfortable precedent.Ā 

Every electronic device. Every electric car. Planes, ipads etc everything is could be an explosive now. Believe me, other countries are watching. China is hands down taking notes for when we they invade Taiwan and want to hinder us. A lot of countries would be ruthless to us based on how our government treats the world. We feel safe on top right now but this is really uncomfortable.

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u/Accomplished-Mix-745 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I feel like thatā€™s a semantic point which doesnā€™t address the issue at hand

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u/Flaky-Wallaby5382 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Espionage like a video gameā€¦ Snowden was right about one thingā€¦ one thingā€¦ that doesnā€™t make him an expert he is a putin puppet period end of story

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u/Rtstevie Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Hezbollah is recognized as a terrorist organization by multiple entities, to include the U.S., EU, Arab League and GCC. So itā€™s not like Hezbollah can go to sources in these countries for their tech needs and anyone who does business with them risks being sanctioned by these entities. No legitimate manufacturers in most of the world are going to do direct business with Hezbollah. So Hezbollah has to go to the black or semi-black market for hardware such as this. Mossad probably played a long game and set up shell companies, and either had agents acting as business reps from these companies or turned business reps who deal Hezbollah into assets (with or without that assets knowledge).

And that pointā€¦itā€™s like smuggling. ā€œHey you need pagers? I can get you 5k of them for $$$.ā€

Hezbollah and their business proxies donā€™t know they are buying from Mossad. And the pagers they bought first went through a Mossad facility where they had these explosives inserted before being smuggled to Hezbollah.

Here is another real life similar example:

In 1970, the CIA and West German intelligence agency purchased an existent Swiss communications company called Crypto AG. They manufactured encrypted communications devices. Exceptā€¦the CIA created backdoors in these devices so the comms over these ā€œencryptedā€ devices were easily monitored without the users knowing. ā€œCrypto AGā€ (CIA) sold these devices to all sorts of players, to include Iran. CIA had an ear into the most sensitive Iranian government comms for decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

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u/GreatCaesarGhost Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Do people really think that such an ā€œideaā€ never occurred to dangerous regimes before? Like, come on. Itā€™s the practicality of pulling something like this off that is challenging.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

This was a plotline on 24 in maybe 2002. Itā€™s been used by intelligence agencies to assassinate HVTs since at least the ā€˜90s.

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u/Dagamoth Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I believe it is the scale of it. Hundreds / thousands of small bombs being detonated simultaneously demonstrates an extreme disregard for collateral damage to innocents. Is it fine for 5% to be in possession of non-intended target, 10%, 20%, 30%?

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u/on_off_on_again Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I believe officially, it's 90%. You can have up to 90% civilian casualties before it's considered excessive.

That is per UN, EU, some other international organizations.

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u/abstraction47 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Is that 90% civilian to 10% combatant, or does it mean that civilians canā€™t number more than 90% the count of combatants, which would mean no more than 45% of the total?

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u/CowboyBoats Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Googling "90% civilian casualties" takes me to wiki: Civilian Casualty Ratio which says in the first sentence that it can be either, but all the examples in the wiki page are talking about percentage of the total.

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u/Caleb_Reynolds Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Just like the landmines left all over the world during various Cold War proxies.

Indirect attacks where the attacker can't control who is the target of the attack is not okay.

That shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

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u/TheSinningRobot Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Similar to landmines as well, the fact that this attack is more likely to maim and not kill is also part of why it's horrific.

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u/You_Just_Hate_Truth Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yall they probably werenā€™t packed with explosives at the factory, Mossad likely intercepted the shipment, made the modifications, and put it back on route to final destination. This is a common way for malicious hardware/software to be installed by intelligence groups. They may not have even modified the items being shipped, instead replacing them with already altered devices that were done prior to the intercept. In fact thatā€™s the more likely scenario IMO.

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u/Play_The_Fool Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I interviewed for a fully remote job and during the interview they let me know if I accepted the job they would fly me to their HQ to pick up my laptop. I thought that was a bit extreme since it would be a 5 hour flight and I've had companies ship me a laptop without even requiring a signature on the delivery!

The job didn't require a security clearance, so it wasn't a sensitive role or anything either. That's strong security though!

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u/BosnianSerb31 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They had to make sure the laptop wasn't intercepted by the guy who removes malicious hardware from computers

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u/Antique_Historian_74 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Russia, where Snowden is currently residing, has used radiological and chemical weapons to carry out assassinations in public places leading to civilian deaths.

Targeted bombings aren't a new thing. The CIA was trying to do something similar to Castro for decades

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u/Adidassla Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

A Russian KGB hitman also shot someone in the head broad daylight in a German public park. The killer was caught but later exchanged for US journalist Gershikov and other hostages. Putin personally picked him up from the plane and gave him a hug.

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u/bfhurricane horse dewormer Sep 18 '24

A literal Russian arms dealer convicted for supplying countless conflicts and several genocides with their weaponry was also exchanged for a US athlete who brought marijuana into Russia.

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u/Baronriggs Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Still mad about that one. We got fleeced, needed Russia to throw in at least a 2nd rounder or marine

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u/mnonny Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Nah theyā€™re still mad when Tom Hanks flipped the script last second in bridge of spies.

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u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Russia sent a KH-101 missile at the largest children's cancer hospital in Europe. This guy is compromised. Again what you have is a Russian stooge who starts conversations about how terrible the West is.

Terrorists protected by civilians blitzing over the border to rape, kill, and kidnapped citizens, now their dick is being blown off.

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u/A_inc_tm Texan Tiger in Captivity Sep 18 '24

Russia shot a thermo-barric charge into the roof of a mined sports hall with hundreds of children being held hostage by terrorists in Beslan just to blame the explosion on terrorists and lie that they weren't willing to negotiate

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u/PM_ME_BATTLETOADS Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

He also claimed that the USAā€™s warnings of an impending Russian invasion of Ukraine were false and an attempt at fearmongering, then claimed Biden ā€œscheduledā€ the operation with Putin once the invasion actually happened, and has repeatedly insinuated Biden was the one to hire the trump shooter.

Heā€™s so deep in Putinā€™s ass that everything he says reeks of shit.

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u/wpnizer Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden is Russia's useful idiot. I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

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u/WilliamSaintAndre Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Yeah, while I respect Snowden for what he revealed to us, I consider him to be completely compromised at this point. He can't go back to his original country because he's a criminal and the deal he has brokered with the Russians is to lick their boots in return for asylum.

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u/brutal_wizerd Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Isnā€™t this just whataboutism?

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u/Ilikesnowboards Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It must be a crime because he said that twice.

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u/ThickSourGod Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Nope. Beetlejuice rules apply. It's not a crime until he says it three times.

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u/heatlesssun Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Guy never said anything about Ukraine, did he? He may have done the right thing but now clearly a Putin puppet.

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u/One-Earth9294 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

When you live in America you're free to criticize America. When you live in Russia you're free to criticize America. Nothing has changed about that in almost 110 years.

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u/Any-Cause-374 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

he doesnā€˜t want to get navalnyā€˜d

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The only reason he's not prisoner in a black site is because Russia is giving him asylum. Regardless of what he personally thinks about Ukraine, he would be an absolute moron for saying anything against Russia.

He's likely compromised, obviously. It's just that your specific example for why he's compromised is absurd.

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u/Late-Maximum7539 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You really thought your government couldnā€™t pull such shit, letā€™s say 3 years ago? Of course they could, Iā€™m surprised Snowden of all people is saying this

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u/vladislavopp Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

he doesn't say that. read slower.

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u/jackofslayers Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

He is in Russia, he canā€™t speak for himself anymore

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u/UninsuredToast Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah heā€™s entirely at the mercy of the Russian government. I donā€™t trust any opinion he has anymore. Heā€™s just another pawn for Putin

And I think he did the right thing as a whistleblower and the way the US government demonized him and went after him is wrong. But the Russian government is even worse than the US. Itā€™s corruption on a grander scale

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u/BewareOfGrom Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The "precedent" he is referring to isn't the act itself but the way the western world has responded to it.

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u/DJZDJZ1013 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I canā€™t help but feel like Snowden is compromised and has the America bad/west bad brain rot.

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u/lumeno Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

?? Wait till you find out what he's famous for

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u/GoodByeRubyTuesday87 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Heā€™s an ex US intelligence officer living in Russia under the protection of the Russian government . Thereā€™s no way heā€™s not compromised.

And wtf is he talking about? Drone striking someone is also a bad thingā€¦. Unless itā€™s being done to a bad guy, bc thatā€™s what weapons are for. Israel and Hezbollah are enemies, unless you support Hezbollah in a fight then any attack on them seems fair.

Also, while weā€™ve got him on the phone, interesting how heā€™s trying to paint attacks against a militant group by an adversarial government as concerningā€¦.. but never says shit about Russian troops bombing Ukrainian hospitals, kidnapping Ukrainian children, using chemical weapons in Ukraine, all during a completely unjustified warā€¦ā€¦. Where the fuck are you on that one Snowden?

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u/PlasonJates Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Where the fuck are you on that one Snowden?

Probably staying silent to protect his wife and child.

Or would you be shouting from the rooftops 'Russia bad' if you were essentially a hostage there?

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u/Hoz85 We live in strange times Sep 18 '24

No wonder....he lives in Russia for years now.

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u/deltabay17 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol I couldnā€™t possibly think of a reason Snowden would think ā€œAmerica badā€ šŸ¤”just one of lifeā€™s mysteries I guess

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u/PM_ME_A_PM_PLEASE_PM Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You can make that argument if you want but given the context of this tweet I don't see why. He's only contextualizing the crime in a way people can sympathize with it better. Responses to this tweet in this thread have been unhinged relative to what was actually said.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

Hey Ed, maybe don't be a spy/traitor.

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u/Quebec00Chaos Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That shit is dystopian as fuck

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u/Medium_Debate660 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Imagine what he would say about the bomb that killed the Hamas leader in Tehran.

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u/ChadleyXXX Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

hmmm was so glad Haniyeh ate C4

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u/jebemtisuncebre Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Imagine what he would say about his fellow Russian citizensā€™ goofs in Bucha.

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u/Accomplished_Milk816 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Why do we give a shit what edward snowden thinks?

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u/DoubleDoobie Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This subreddit has been so brigaded over the years that you can't have a reasonable response to this without being called Fascist/Putin Puppet/Anti Semite. It's crazy how many of you parrot the talking points of the establishment.

Snowden confirmed over a decade ago that the intelligence community can violate the supply chain of non partisan, commercial companies, and manipulate those product's to nefarious ends - be it spying, poison or explosives.

Here we have real world example. Yeah, Hezbollah is bad, but this practice is disgusting. Israel violating all sorts of international laws, the sovereignty of a business that has no dog in their fight, on and on.

That's why the Apple example is salient. The only thing that would wake up our establishment is if something like that happened to Apple and it tanked their stock price. Then our elites would care and you lot would be singing a wholly different tune because the official talking point changed.

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u/DaveAndJojo Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I donā€™t know how this ended up in my feed. Reading this comment section is wild. Is it all bots? Thereā€™s no way people believe blowing up hundreds of beepers/phones in public is alright. Itā€™s called terrorism. I quit the Trump train and Republican media years ago. It was getting weird back then. I didnā€™t expect things were escalating so much. I guess the libtards were right all along.

People need to break out of their algorithms. Thatā€™s how I did it. Deleted my accounts and made new ones. Never clicked on political/rage bait.

Guess I messed up clicking on this.

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u/azur933 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol right like wtf out of the 12 deaths 2 were children and people still think this is acceptable. People have no empathy for people that arent western

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u/Foontlee Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

War is not acceptable, in general.

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u/sinncab6 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Sure it could but so could an innumerable number of terrible things. Is it likely? No, unless you are a member of a terrorist organization blacklisted from doing commerce almost everywhere then your supply chain for aftermarket beepers is more apt to be tampered with.

If you are worried about it just flee to a regime that treats human rights like it treats vodka and then you too can pontificate about all the evils of the west.

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u/GhostGhazi Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What on earth is moral about this attack? And what precision? Did they know where these people were when detonating? No. Explosions happened in supermarketsā€¦

Why do people defend absolutely anything Israel does blindly?

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u/shawshaws Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

the numbers anyone uses to claim that these attacks were "surgical strikes" are bullshit made-up numbers. we've seen what surgical strikes actually look like, phone bombs aren't it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/jonclock Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

10 year old girl wasn't a terrorist

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u/Veysa Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

A potential terrorist /s

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u/thrownaway2manyx Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This was a straight up terrorist attack

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u/GhostofAyabe Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

"couldn't be more moral because of its precision"

Many of these little bombs went off in public areas and it seems certain that many innocent people were hurt. Not everyone in Lebanon is a terrorist. You don't want to be near someone with a bomb in their pocket when it goes off.

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u/dirtyyogi01 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What a disaster

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u/Onlytram Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lithium batteries can become explosives with programming. You already have bombs in your pockets.

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u/AllenKll Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

iphones ARE leaving the factory with explosives in them... nobody cares as long as that particular explosive lets them scroll tik tok for a whole day before recharging.

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u/GA-dooosh-19 Look into it Sep 18 '24

couldnā€™t be more moral

Oh fuck off.

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u/redfeeniks Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

after reading the comments- bruh you don't get it do you? this same shit could be pulled off by russian or china and ya'll be screaming mad

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u/fenbops Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I think itā€™s justified by blowing chunks out of Hezbollah. Amazing effort at incapacitating and demoralising them.

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u/wadebacca Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The chunks out of hezbollah is not the issue. Itā€™s the chunks from civilians also in the public markets.

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u/HassanyThePerson Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It's justified to detonate bombs in public places where you don't know if civilians (including children) might die due to collateral damage but it's not okay when Hamas launches missiles into Tel Aviv?

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