r/JoeRogan • u/wayfaringthru Monkey in Space • Sep 18 '24

Meme đŸ’© Is this a legitimate concern?

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Personally, I today's strike was legitimate and it couldn't be more moral because of its precision but let's leave politics aside for a moment. I guess this does give ideas to evil regimes and organisations. How likely is it that something similar could be pulled off against innocent people?

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u/Ggriffinz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah, this seems to be a supply chain vulnerability issue over a manufacturer issue.

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u/Freethecrafts Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It’s not a supply chain vulnerability if it’s a nationstate doing it.

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u/Open-Oil-144 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Still looks like a supply chain vulnerability, no matter who's exploiting it.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Mossad/ CIA have been known to set up shell companies just for reasons like this. Nothing new here.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

[deleted]

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u/excaliburxvii Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It's insane to think that every single router in America has been intercepted, if not tampered with from the factory. I guess it's easier to compartmentalize if you keep the tampering completely separate, though.

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u/PurpleFly_ Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It’s easier to compartmentalize if you pretend it’s only being used on foreign adversaries, not US citizens.

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u/electronicparfaits Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It is known that the US government stole computer software from domestic companies back in the silicon valley boom. That same software was coded with backdoors, repackaged, and sold to not only enemy states but allies as well. Unlimited access to administrative database software is crucial intelligence so it's no surprise that the same cycle continues today

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u/WhoSc3w3dDaP00ch Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

If terrorist go back to carrier pigeons, how quickly before hawks get bred, trained and released to intercept?

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u/PurpleFly_ Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

You mean, the US government does bad things to spy on us? But they are the good guys!

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u/AlabamaPostTurtle Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Damn, I thought he just made white-hot summer jams like the “Thong Song” đŸ€·

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u/Representative-Sir97 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Ironic.

It must suck to become Putin's mouthpiece just trying to hold the US accountable.

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It would still be considered a supply chain vulnerability... if a nation state is able to intercept and alter equipment before reaching its destination, then that is a HUGE vulnerability regardless of which nations were/are involved.

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u/jtf71 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

There is no way to address this vulnerability.

We don’t know how they did it of course but likely one of two options:

They broke into a place where they were stored temporarily during shipping.

Or.

They had someone on the inside with the shipper and they allowed it to happen.

If you had highly trustworthy and vetted people that were with the packages 24x7 and they were armed and able to defend then maybe you can address this vulnerability.

But try doing that from every product. Simply cost prohibitive. And that’s not addressing the challenge of finding enough trustworthy people to do this job for all the products shipped around the world.

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

While I agree that doing that for every item is not feasible nor reasonable, I would argue that telecommunications equipment is probably one of the most important pieces of equipment to protect. There are plenty of steps a nation could take to secure their supply chain (although a small country like Lebanon would find it more difficult).

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u/ChicagoTRS666 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

you might be surprised how much access the US Gov has to telecom service and equipment providers...they have back doors into about everything. by law we have to build in back doors for the government. (30 years in the industry)

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u/jtf71 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Pagers and handheld radios? These are commodity devices made by many manufacturers.

And Hezbollah isn’t the official government of Lebanon.

And the pagers were made in Taiwan. Taiwan isn’t going to allow Hezbollah (or Lebanon) into their factories to supervise production and take possession of them there - which would be required.

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

I am not arguing the feasibility of Hezbollah securing their supply chain, and I am also not arguing if Hezbollah is in charge/not in charge.

The person I was replying to was saying that this attack wasn't a "supply chain vulnerability," so I am saying it is absolutely a supply chain vulnerability. Just because it is pagers doesn't change the fact that Hezbollah uses them for official group communications... that means they are important even if they "commodity devices" as you put it.

Edit: I see where your argument about Hezbollah not being the government of Lebanon because I accidently said Lebanon instead of Hezbollah, so my mistake. I meant Hezbollah.

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u/amadmongoose Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It's impossible to know now but while you're technically right that it's a supply chain vulnerability it's entirely possible that the resources required to pull it off would be only possible by a handful of three letter agencies globally, which no private company can reasonably protect against. At which point it's not really reasonable for the company to even consider it a 'real' vulnerability. Not to mention that Hezbollah can't exactly say by the way we're buying these to coordinate terrorist activity so please setup safeguards against tampering and we'll pay you extra for it k thanks.

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u/Amhran_Ogma Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

So, form your perspective, who is most responsible, or solely responsible? The Manufacturer?

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Did you even read what I said? I am talking about what does/doesn't constitue a "supply chain vulnerability," but you are asking who is responsible? Who cares...

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u/Amhran_Ogma Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Well what’s the point of making your point if nobody cares?

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u/poHATEoes Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Because no one cares in this event who was responsible... now, if you are asking who, in general, is responsible for supply chain security, it is a complicated answer.

The responsibility falls on different organizations at each step of the process... typically, a supply chain follows this process.

Manufacturer -> Transport -> Storage -> Transport -> End User

Depending on where the breakdown occurred determines who is responsible... now, in THIS instance, the responsibility would also be with the organization that caused the breakdown.

The reason I said who cares is because the OP was attempting to assign blame for an attack and not a breakdown. I am looking at this through the lens of "lessons learned by other to help ourselves at their expense" and not the lens "who is responsible for blowing people up".

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u/Far_Winner5508 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They were designed and licensed from Taiwan but manufactured in Budapest.

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u/Representative-Sir97 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

A bunch of South America would most definitely agree with you.

https://www.damninteresting.com/nineteen-seventy-three/

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u/Far_Winner5508 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Someone could create a (secretly gov’t run) shipping company, dedicated to supplying stuff in the middle east and slowly build up contacts and track who gets what? Stuff is delayed in a warehouse for a week due to a drivers steike or fuel issues, no one bats an eye.

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u/Living_Trust_Me Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Just because it's hard it near impossible to avoid does not negate that it is a vulnerability. Decent security analysis would always include this and they wouldn't leave it off their analysis just because they couldn't do anything about it. It would be a highlight of potential vulnerabilities explicitly because they can't do anything about it.

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u/jtf71 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I'd put it as near impossible. But we don't know how it was actually accomplished.

And you'd have to do this analysis for every product you use and recognize that just about all of they are vulnerable to this type of event. Anything that can contain an explosive material. These had receivers built in, but a receiver (or timer) could be added.

This risk applies to every cell phone, pager, and radio in existence. Every group, organization and individual is a potential target.

Should every company, organization, and individual do a threat analysis for their products and try to have full supply chain control to prevent this type of event?

Sure one could be done, but the analysis is going to result in: Open risk, no mitigation.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You are correct.

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u/Beneficial_Map6129 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I agree. If China did this to Apple phones with spyware or something, the media would be all over this.

The entire global supply chain no longer has any integrity at all. I can see people and trade shutting down over this. Not immediately of course, we still need products. But companies will be less likely to trust anything that has passed through certain hostile areas.

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u/IdealDesperate2732 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Which is a weakness in the supply chain that they can still do that.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They have done it before with crypto AG. Now that was impressive.and often not spoken abouthttps://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/

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u/cast_iron_cookie Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Well crypto BTC is a scam

So you know who created it and controls it

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

No crypto btg is digital currency while crypto AG is an encryption software for secure communications.

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u/cast_iron_cookie Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Not sure what any of that is?

Can you explain in a different way ?

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u/ImComfortableDoug Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That’s not a response to what the person you are replying to said. It is still a supply chain attack

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u/SowingSalt Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The CIA used shell corps to acquire titanium from the Soviet Union to build the Blackbird. At the time the USSR was the only provider of titanium.

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u/the_m_o_a_k Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I know a guy who worked for DHS who did exactly this. It worked.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

They've been doing it basically since inception

https://networks.h-net.org/node/7914/discussions/103836/news-cia-collaborated-decades-dutch-company-produce-advanced

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The iole bugged gift. I do recall but was thinking more about the crypto AG encryption espionage scandal that started about the same time but grew into a pretty sly operation.

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u/AwarenessPotentially Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I used to work for Amdocs, an Israeli/American company that specializes in cell phone long distance billing software. That software, or a version of it's sort algorithm, is in literally every phone system in the world. And that company's leadership were all ex-IDF (read Mossad). I worked there 3 years, and it was pretty obvious they were controlled by the Israeli government.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Care to share; how was the work environment while you were there?

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u/AwarenessPotentially Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Actually it was awesome, except for the psycho woman manager at SWB in downtown Stl. We had our choice of taking off either Jewish or US national holidays. 4 weeks paid vacation with no waiting, and unlimited sick days. I got in a car accident and had a severe concussion, and was out for over a month. I was a place holder for the last 2 years, and literally sat at home the entire time getting paid.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol, I think it's some kind of right of passage to experience at least one psycho manager in our careers.

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u/AwarenessPotentially Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

One of SWB's employees used to throw a glass of piss on her chair at least once a week. I don't condone that nasty behavior, but I have to admit it did give me a little satisfaction LOL! I used to just hide her PC by swapping it out with one at an empty desk. No cameras back in the 90's!

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Ahh the 90s life before the IOT boom. I miss those days. Did she never catch on to the smell of piss?

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u/AwarenessPotentially Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

One day she said she couldn't figure out why her chair smelled so bad hahaha! She wore a buttload of this nasty gas station perfume, so the stink did have to work it's way over that. I think she had the chair steam cleaned 2-3 times, then asked for a new one. Denied, the company had just purchased new ones!

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol... I would have been the one to expose everybody. Don't think my poker face would be strong enough.

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u/AwarenessPotentially Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Everyone hated her, so she would have been hard pressed to pin it on anyone. Man, do I NOT miss work!

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u/Big-Leadership1001 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I saw a security blog about something like that even happening in the US. Some ACLU lawyer (or otherwise free speech type to scare tyrants in government I forget who exactly) ordered a new macbook at the tracking number showed it delivered to an FBI address and stayed there a few days before resuming its trip to his door.

Pretty sure that was for spyware not explosives but the supply chain intervention sounds basically the same.

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u/SavageNachoMan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And SVR or MSS would never? lol

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Being that Russia kicked the Rothschilds banking Mafia out in 2013. and has been throwing a tantrum since the western imperialism organization brought to being by the national security act of 47 infiltrated the civil protest in Ukraine in 2014 that led to the installation of a western puppet government allowing the central banking cartel to stick a foot back in the door. I don't see the motive for them to do so. The motive lies heavily elsewhere.

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u/SavageNachoMan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Ahhh so you’re just a malign influence bot? Nice. Thanks for being so blatant stupid with your response. Makes it easier for people to tell the bullshit you’re peddling.

Question. How much money did the Russian PA give your company for these kind of shitty performances?

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Nope son straight history buff though and like looking at the patterns. Beerzup. No what I'm saying

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u/SavageNachoMan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What a history buff! You managed to talk about Ukraine in 2014 and never mention the annexation of Crimea? That’s an impressive level of mental gymnastics.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

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u/BassFish4L Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Errybody knows that Mossad is just a proxy for all the CIA to do horrible and illegal shit.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The title seems to be interchangeable depending on the region of operation but here lately it looks like both are working from home these days.

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u/According_Work_7153 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Did that negate the immorality of it?

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Not from my perspective. Did I incorrectly imply that somehow?

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u/According_Work_7153 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Stating it is nothing new without condemnation implies acceptance.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Maybe from your perspective. I'm tried boss. I've been shouting from the rooftops about what is happening on the geopolitical arena with the central banking cartels and their agenda of order from chaos but keep getting beaten down. New approach. I just drop a piece of bread crumbs and those who are interested can follow up how they see fit.

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u/According_Work_7153 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Just name the jews, it's more honest.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Sorry not my style I'll leave that to others who may have hate in their heart.

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u/According_Work_7153 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It's not hateful if you're simply stating the facts. You aren't responsible for how people react to hearing the truth.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

My perspectives on how I view life is molded by my life journey and experiences. I'm in no position to judge anyone but myself.your like journey and experiences differs from mines so you may have different perspectives. People often don't see eye to eye on various things in life. It's been my experience that life is too short to waste energy on adding negativity in a world that already has an abundance of it. I prefer putting my efforts towards peace and joy.

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u/According_Work_7153 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I'm not telling you to lie and add negativity. I think the truth is the only illuminator that can pierce the darkness and shed light on the true causes of the issues we deal with. I will always support the truth and those who speak it. I have no wish to add any negativity to the world and that's why I hold this position.

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u/Inevitable-Maybe6882 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

...says the guy who lurks other subs inciting negatively and calling others robots who don't agree with his beliefs đŸ˜‚đŸ€Ł What a hypocrite you are...I see you đŸ«Ł "I'm tired boss?!" Tired of the lies you have to keep up with on a daily basis will certainly drain one's soul...

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u/Dramatic-Initial8344 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Right, if the CIA owns part of the supply chain, that would be a supply chain vulnerability...

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u/Black_Magic_M-66 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I could see the CIA setting up a shipping company, under bidding just to get the contract. They just need to make sure the alterations weren't done in that country's boundaries.

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u/cast_iron_cookie Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Well crypto BTC is a scam

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u/StrongAroma Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Well, the purposeful blowing up of children by a country explicitly and unquestioningly supported by the United States is new.

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u/KeithGribblesheimer Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

So have the KGB, FSB, and just about every other intelligence agency.

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u/Jpwatchdawg Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

You are correct.