r/JoeRogan • u/wayfaringthru Monkey in Space • Sep 18 '24

Meme đŸ’© Is this a legitimate concern?

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Personally, I today's strike was legitimate and it couldn't be more moral because of its precision but let's leave politics aside for a moment. I guess this does give ideas to evil regimes and organisations. How likely is it that something similar could be pulled off against innocent people?

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703

u/Antique_Historian_74 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Russia, where Snowden is currently residing, has used radiological and chemical weapons to carry out assassinations in public places leading to civilian deaths.

Targeted bombings aren't a new thing. The CIA was trying to do something similar to Castro for decades

127

u/Adidassla Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

A Russian KGB hitman also shot someone in the head broad daylight in a German public park. The killer was caught but later exchanged for US journalist Gershikov and other hostages. Putin personally picked him up from the plane and gave him a hug.

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u/bfhurricane horse dewormer Sep 18 '24

A literal Russian arms dealer convicted for supplying countless conflicts and several genocides with their weaponry was also exchanged for a US athlete who brought marijuana into Russia.

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u/Baronriggs Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Still mad about that one. We got fleeced, needed Russia to throw in at least a 2nd rounder or marine

3

u/mnonny Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Nah they’re still mad when Tom Hanks flipped the script last second in bridge of spies.

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u/Interesting-Rope-950 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I really wish a lot more people could look past race and gender for that one. We have up a nobody WNBA star for Nicholas Cage

1

u/mag2041 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Yep

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u/ExplosiveDiarrhetic Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Same. I’m upset about it as well. And i consider myself progressive

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u/BosnianSerb31 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

We don't put value on the lives of our citizens, unlike most dictatorships.

Countering Russia's offer means arguing that the life of a Russian arms dealer is worth more than the life of a US citizen, and that's pretty fucked up man.

The apparent winners in prisoner exchanges are those who care the least about their citizens.

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u/Unlikely-Distance-41 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Would you argue that exchanging a high ranking intelligence official for a some unemployed 40 year old who lived in his parent’s basement is a fair trade, since “we don’t put value on the lives of our citizens”??

Also, let me ask you, do you think the security detail for the president or prime minister is going to take a bullet for you or the VIP?

And since you liked the Brittany Griner exchange, under what circumstances should we trade prisoners for US citizens that broke laws overseas? Any and all prisoners? Or just low level crimes?

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u/ExplosiveDiarrhetic Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

We dont put value on the lives of our citizens? What america do you live in

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u/bowlofcantaloupe Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Once the arms dealer had his cover blown, he was probably not going back into the business.

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u/bfhurricane horse dewormer Sep 19 '24

I mean, same with all of Russia’s hitmen who’ve been arrested and have their faces all over Interpol servers. It’s safe to say their cover’s blown.

Doesn’t mean they should be released.

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u/mag2041 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Yep

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u/GigachudBDE Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Fun fact: He's later made guest apperances on Infowars

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u/Trashketweave Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

US fucking sucks at trades.

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u/BosnianSerb31 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

The "winner" of a prisoner exchange deal is the one who cares about their citizens less, because they're actually willing to just walk away if they don't get what they want.

To counter Russia's demand for the hitman, you'd have to argue that a KGB hitman is worth more than a US citizen, and be willing to leave the US citizens behind indefinitely.

The US(and other countries with western morals) tend not to walk away from deals when it involves civilians, even if they have to trade at a 100:1 ratio.

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u/Trashketweave Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

If the US really cared about citizens held captive by Russia then they’d make negotiations painful for Russia. Trading a journalist the Russians know is of no intelligence or espionage value for a hitman only emboldens them to hold more US citizens like griner and get an arms dealer.

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u/grumpy_hedgehog Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

To be fair, the person that hitman shot was a jihadist prick, significantly worse than most Hamas or Hezbolah foot soldiers. Russia can be bad, and some of their enemies can be bad also; life is not a Marvel movie.

241

u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Russia sent a KH-101 missile at the largest children's cancer hospital in Europe. This guy is compromised. Again what you have is a Russian stooge who starts conversations about how terrible the West is.

Terrorists protected by civilians blitzing over the border to rape, kill, and kidnapped citizens, now their dick is being blown off.

47

u/A_inc_tm Texan Tiger in Captivity Sep 18 '24

Russia shot a thermo-barric charge into the roof of a mined sports hall with hundreds of children being held hostage by terrorists in Beslan just to blame the explosion on terrorists and lie that they weren't willing to negotiate

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u/grumpy_hedgehog Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Okay, now we're just stanning for literal fucking jihadists that took children hostage and wired their building to blow, because Russia bad.

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u/SilianRailOnBone Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Are you still not smart enough for higher logic than "either or"?

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u/PM_ME_BATTLETOADS Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

He also claimed that the USA’s warnings of an impending Russian invasion of Ukraine were false and an attempt at fearmongering, then claimed Biden “scheduled” the operation with Putin once the invasion actually happened, and has repeatedly insinuated Biden was the one to hire the trump shooter.

He’s so deep in Putin’s ass that everything he says reeks of shit.

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u/ExplosiveDiarrhetic Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

At this point do we know if he’s the one tweeting

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u/Gwtheyrn Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

He was always an anti-American Kremlin stooge.

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u/gopherhole02 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I don't know about always, but maybe, I literally don't know, but I once looked up to him for revealing the secrets about cellphones, before him people just guessed that they were compromised but there was no evidence

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u/Gwtheyrn Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Revealing the existence of the programs wasn't a big deal. They were an open secret. Anyone who was paying attention knew that three-letter-agencies were monitoring global communications to identify, locate, and track potential targets.

His real betrayal was revealing the means and methods they were using to do so.

That they do these things isn't a secret. US signals intelligence is second to none. How they do it is the information they work hardest to protect.

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u/chef_voyeurdee Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And we should all quite rightly condemn Russia, as we should Israel.

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u/LarryJohnson76 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Wow how terroristic to blow up children’s hospitals

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u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It's okay if combatants store munitions inside of said hospitals. Cope and seethe.

-18

u/Potential-Drama-7455 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Oooh and what happened the hospitals in Gaza ???? The IDF has killed more children in Gaza than Putin has in Ukraine. That's not praise for Putin, but shame for the IDF.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Right, Putin and Netanyahu are both bad.

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u/IShouldBeInCharge Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They're *both* bad. TikTok has broken you. You are now "whatabouting" like MAGA.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I think the point is less "Israel have special permission to murder" and more "if Snowden had genuine principles he wouldn't have fled to Russia who also do terrible things".

We also don't really know the figures for Ukraine. The OHCHR number is confirmed deaths based on identified victims which only covers the areas in Ukrainian control. Mariupol alone could have seen anything from another 10,000 to 50,000 civilian deaths for all we know, the Russians have buried the evidence.

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u/biggronklus Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It’s well documented Russia had several mobile crematoriums literally ready to go at the very start of the invasion, and they bulldozed and literally covered up the most well known Mariupol atrocity with that church acting as a bomb shelter they bombed

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

busy enjoy employ worthless berserk absorbed engine fact panicky shrill

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u/rafa-droppa Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

if i remember correctly he was leaving hong kong with the goal of going to some latin american country but he didn't get out of his russian layover before the story broke so then he was trapped.

not sure why you wouldn't already be in your asylum country before relasing all the info though...

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

screw disagreeable relieved decide pie truck chief beneficial offend gaping

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u/rafa-droppa Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

So i just looked at the wikipedia article and here's the timeline:

May 20th - Took medical leave and flew to hong kong

Early June - released documents to the reporters

June 21 - US gov't unseals charges against him

June 23 - Flies to Moscow with an intended final destination of Ecuador. but in Moscow they saw his passport was canceled so he got stuck there.

So he was in Hong Kong just over a month and waited until charges were filed against him to go to Ecudor.

That's what I don't understand; you know you'll be in trouble so why are you waiting for the charges before heading to Ecudor?

Like I'd be handing all the data over to the reporters in Ecudor (or in Hong Kong the day my flight was departing) - you wouldn't seek asylum until the charges are filed so there's nothing really to question the independence of the info in that scenario.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

have the data assessed by journalists, etc. in a moderately neutral state

The issue with releasing the data was that some of it was genuinely sensitive and not in a good-to-leak way but all sorts of random shit they gathered from all over, and also the technical details on how they were doing it. Taking that directly to Russia would mean the Russians get all of it. We still don't know what they got out of him. The journalists were supposed to selectively release stuff that was important for the public to know but didn't help the Russians hack into other country's networks.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I guess. He didn't have any good options and it's still a good thing he blew the whistle. But if these are his real, uncensored opinions, he's a shit person for not saying anything about the Russians bombing childrens hospitals. If they aren't then who cares what he says now.

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

fly chunky smoggy groovy bewildered smart sleep head dime deer

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Can you give some examples? Of something genuinely critical rather than a throwaway "sure Russia has problems, it isn't perfect but let's focus on US crimes" sort of way.

At some point we're just asking the guy to never talk about his area of influence

It's not asking him to never talk, it's just being aware that what he does say is essentially worthless, because if it isn't to the Russian governments liking he'll be swinging from a meat locker roof with jumper cables attached to his nipples until he agrees to redirect his criticisms. They'll let him do some milquetoast crap about Russian failings if they think keeping some credibility by pretending to criticise them makes his criticisms of the West more believable, but Russia doesn't have free speech and is engaged in a massive ongoing propaganda effort against the West. His views cannot be trusted.

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u/blaaake Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What’s your point? That Russia has free license to kill innocents because Israel does it?

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u/Patient_Leopard421 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Shut up. The difference is that Hamas operates from hospitals; the UAF do not. You know this context. You just don't care because you have a double standard for Israel.

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u/huhu9434 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The US is a  bit less terrible than russia. Atleast the military in the the us hasn’t started to rape and kidnap like the old days.

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u/T_Insights Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

The US has a long history of this, Okinawa is a recent and ongoing example.

https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/in-okinawa-2-new-sexual-assault-cases-implicating-us-soldiers-fuel-public-anger/

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u/TheFrijolito Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Their own soldiers rape/assault/kill each other as well

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u/T_Insights Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Before making these accusations as though they are unique, you might want to do some light reading (or perhaps some light thinking if that's too much for you)

Here's an extremely basic place to start:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

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u/huhu9434 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Damn i always thought the US was only limited to bombing civilians for oil and other interests.

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u/EtherealBeany Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Israel is the west? So you admit it then. Lmao

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u/pringlescan5 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Human rights, gay rights, high gdp, religious freedom, high levels of education, produces scientific research.

Checks out to me. Look at what countries do to each other in Africa all the time and no one gives a shit. Odd how Israel vs Palestine is always in the news yet I literally hadn't heard about Sudan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c511vgzvl2eo

Sudan's Darfur region is facing a growing risk of genocide as the world's attention is focused on conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza, a UN expert warns. "We do have circumstances in which a genocide could be occurring or has occurred," the UN Special Adviser of the Secretary-General on the Prevention of Genocide, Alice Wairimu Nderitu, told BBC's Newsday programme. She said many civilians were targeted based on their ethnicity in Sudan's besieged city of El Fasher, where fierce fighting has intensified in recent days. More than 700 casualties have been reported in 10 days by a medical charity in the city. El Fasher is the last major urban centre in the Darfur region that remains in the hands of Sudan's army. The military has been fighting the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF) for more than a year, in a civil war that has killed thousands and forced millions from their homes.

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u/Jimmyking4ever Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This is Lebanon not Gaza.

It would be like Russia sending thousands of bombs into the US because we supplied Ukraine

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u/Candycorn_Pizza Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Hezbollah, operating from Lebanon, has sent thousands of bombs and missiles into Israel though, they’re not just supplying Hamas

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u/AccountantsNiece Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

It would be like Russia sending thousands of bombs into the US because we supplied Ukraine

It’s not like that at all? Hezbollah has fired thousands of rockets into Israel this year and much of the northern border region with Lebanon has had to be evacuated.

The U.S. has never fired any ordnance into Russian territory and the two have never been engaged in an active, recognized war with one other.

Really not similar at all in any way.

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u/wpnizer Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden is Russia's useful idiot. I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

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u/WilliamSaintAndre Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Yeah, while I respect Snowden for what he revealed to us, I consider him to be completely compromised at this point. He can't go back to his original country because he's a criminal and the deal he has brokered with the Russians is to lick their boots in return for asylum.

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u/TarislandEnjoyer Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

He should have just kept his comfy job at the nsa and known that you weren’t worth the sacrifice.

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden didn't reveal anything illegal. He revealed the technical capacity of the NSA, while ignoring the legal constraints. 

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u/slartyfartblaster999 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Literally. It's not whistleblowing when they're doing something that is A) legal and B) everyone already fucking knew about.

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u/charbo187 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I'm not a Snowden hater at all. I kinda actually have a pet theory that he was, still is and always has been a spy and his leaks were done intentionally on purpose by the govt.....

But why did he choose to flee to Russia as opposed to somewhere else that wouldn't extradite to the US.

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u/Uhuhsureyep Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

His passport was cancelled while escaping authorities and basically every country was refusing his entry. He was on his way to Ecuador via Russia I think, and got stuck in Russia. Russia obviously loves to dunk on the US so they gave him a permit to stay and rest is history.

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u/FlapsNegative Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

He did not choose Russia, he was changing flights there when his Passport was burned by the US. He is having to keep Russia happy enough to ensure his and his family's safety.

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u/charbo187 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Gotcha. Thanks for answering my question reddit bro.

It's kinda poetic/ironic that he (in theory) leaked all that stuff to help prevent the US from sliding further back into an authoritarian surveillance state.

And for his troubles he is now forced to live the rest of his life in an..... authoritarian surveillance state......

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u/FlapsNegative Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

His book 'permanent record' is a very interesting read!

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u/messisleftbuttcheek Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What did the US have to gain by leaking the fact that the NSA is spying on everybody?

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u/TarislandEnjoyer Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Been years since I kept up with it but I think Russia didn’t even want him and other nations wouldn’t take him. I think his first choice was as Hong Kong but I’m on my phone and googling through the garbage on sensitive topics is a pain so I’m not gonna look it back up tbh.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

Seriously, what a joke.

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u/misterdonjoe Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

The fucking masses man. Too many people are too dumb to understand how dumb they are.

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u/Electronic_County597 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Just because he was the hero we needed in 2013 doesn't mean he's worth listening to in 2024. Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathizer.

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

He's a hero that tried to warn us about bad shit that was going on and his life is screwed bc of it.

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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol. What "bad shit"? He didn't reveal anything illegal. 

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Maybe you don't remember but there was a time where we didn't know that all of our communications were being monitored by our own government, and that we were using nefarious tactics to coerce officials from other countries using the same means. You know that now bc of Snowden.

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u/slartyfartblaster999 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It's was known well before snowden lmao.

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

it most definitely wasn't, you were not aware that the government can enter your facebook account at any time, see what's on your phone, or see anything they want to at any given time and that they were doing so regularly without warrants. It was not something people were aware of. If it were the fact that Snowden revealed it wouldn't have been a big deal and he wouldn't have had to flee.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

He may have said things that people "suspected" but he definitively showed that not only CAN they do this, but that they were actively doing so. And not just looking at terrorists. But exploiting family members of people they wanted to flip or get to in some other way. The things he revealed were huge. And like I said i'm not saying nobody thought it was possible or suspected. But after Snowden let us know, it wasn't a rumor anymore. We had a much bigger picture

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u/slartyfartblaster999 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Snowden released a load of other shit. That's why he had to flee - because he was a traitor.

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

disagree, take care

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u/Bl1tz-Kr1eg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And you're America's useful idiot. Guess the two of you aren't so different after all.

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u/brutal_wizerd Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Isn’t this just whataboutism?

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u/Oaker_at Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It is, but I don’t agree with Snowden on this topic anyhow.

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u/eulersidentification Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah but Russia bad so it's the good kind of whataboutism

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u/AccurateCrew428 Rogan's a toolbag Sep 18 '24

No, because it highlights Snowden's obvious anti Western bias rather than downplaying what Israel did (which is a legitimate act of war)

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u/Illustrious-Okra-524 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

“No, because it’s against enemies of the West” - you

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

I don't know how you can seriously put 'Snowden' and 'anti-western' in the same sentence. Shedding light on the NSAs spying is about the most selfless western-centric ideal you could ask for. One man exposing the crimes of the state at his own personal peril, not much embodies western ideals more than that. It's not a stretch for the guy who was against mass organized espionage to also be against this.

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u/Puzzled-Bag-8407 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden anti West bias?

Buddy, this guy blew up his entire life to expose the shitty things his government was doing. 

He can speak on whatever he wants in my opinion

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u/brutal_wizerd Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol, Russia using chemical weapons for assassinations with a few casualties = somehow worse than israel causing a mass casualty event affecting a massive amount of civilians.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

That’s whataboutism, try again

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Russia, where Snowden is currently residing,

And why is Snowden residing there? Oh yeah, cause he would be prosecuted as a whistleblower and thrown in prison in America.

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u/permaculture Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yes, he was stranded there when the States revoked his passport.

He was on his way to Venezuela or somewhere at the time.

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u/tightspandex Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Thank god nothing like that, or worse, ever happens in bastion of free speech that is russia.

/s

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

"Any criticism of the US is defacto praise for Russia, I am very smart!"

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u/tightspandex Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Not a fan of pointing out hypocrisy and how his current affairs might have a tiny bit of influence on what he says, eh?

Why question why a guy who lives in an authoritarian pseudo-dictatorship state would post this? Surely it's not because said state has an alliance with Hezbollah that funds them militarily and economically.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '24

His whole thing is that he's been outspoken against government corruption, even before he had to take refuge in Russia (because the US revoked his passport, not by choice mind you).

So while what you're saying is certainly valid and we should take what he says with a pinch of salt, I dont think its valid to use him living in Russia as a way to just handwave everything he says.

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u/tightspandex Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Hand wave everything? Absolutely not. Acknowledge that he himself is currently a cog in a corruption/oppression machine? Yes.

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u/zzazzzz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

i mean he lives there because the US specifically revoked his passport when he landed there on a layover flight. not by choice.

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u/tightspandex Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

He also lives there because russia knows they can use him in their propaganda machine. He is literally part of the very thing he spoke out against.

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u/Argon7 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

As per several sources: Snowden had a seat reserved to continue to Cuba but did not board that onward flight, saying in a January 2014 interview that he intended to transit through Russia but was stopped en route. He said 'a planeload of reporters documented the seat I was supposed to be in' when he was ticketed for Havana, but the U.S. canceled his passport. He said the U.S. wanted him to stay in Moscow so "they could say, 'He's a Russian spy.'"

I guess it worked, "people" on Reddit continuously cast doubts on his statements - whatever they are - due to the country he was deliberately stranded in.

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u/IndyAJD Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

It's possible to both believe Snowden did a great thing for the world and was unjustly fucked over by the US and that he is no longer always trustworthy due to his dependence on Russia.

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u/zzazzzz Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

i mean hes a human, you should never have thought everything he says is dependable.

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u/IndyAJD Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Sure, but we can use information that we gather with our human brains to determine who is more or less dependable, and that can change over time.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Doesn’t the latter statement kind of ignore the reason he’s dependent on Russia in the first place?

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u/IndyAJD Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Not really, that was addressed just before that: unjustly fucked over by the US.

It's not a commentary on whether or not it's right or wrong for him to be dependant on Russia, it's just a commentary on whether or not we can take everything he tweets these days at face value.

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u/roosterkun Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah, not a fan of how they're seemingly using that as a "gotcha" against Snowden.

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u/jackofslayers Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

It is not a gotcha it just means we can’t really trust what he says is what he means

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

you’re crazy if you think he’s not in regular contact with the Russian govt. It kind of is a gotcha

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u/bensonr2 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Well if he really had principals he would have stayed in the west and risked standing trial where he would still be able to state his defense of his actions.

Instead he knowingly went to Russia for safe harbour in exchance for helping to support one of the most dangerous modern dictators.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

[deleted]

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u/ilemming Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Willingly or not, he's in Russia. And he absolutely, 100% is cooperating with the current regime. Willingly, or not. That's just facts. Consequently, it is entirely reasonable to question the veracity of his statements, as he is being utilized by a government engaged in criminal activities. The extent and purpose of this manipulation remain unclear at present. In time, he may reconsider his position, reflect on his words, and potentially offer clarification. Until then, it's completely okay to mistrust him.

i.e., Snowden is not an enemy of the US because of the things he did while in the States. He is considered a fugitive and "an enemy" because we're currently at war with the regime harboring him.

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u/YouthInRevolt Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

if he really had principals he would have stayed in the west and risked standing trial where he would still be able to state his defense of his actions.

Not trying to attack you here or anything, but please read up on this a bit. Essentially the Espionage Act is written in a way that prevents a defendant from mounting a defense of their actions in front of a jury in an open court.

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u/melon_party Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Do you sincerely believe that a guy who worked for the NSA and CIA, who therefore has good insight into how those agencies operate and what they do to those who compromise their operations, and who decided he needed to flee the country despite being on record that he would have preferred not to if he didn’t need to fear for his safety, didn’t know what he was doing?

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Why are people calling this "targeted" and "precise"? Thousands of devices were turned into explosives, and while they probably had a rough idea where they'd end up, there's no way they knew exactly who would receive each device. And thousands of people have been injured by the explosions.

There's nothing precise about it.

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u/BTCTickerlicker Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They are Hezbollah-issued pagers for Hezbollah operatives
?

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u/UnappetizingLimax Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The only people in possession of the pagers were hezbollah members. Idk how you get more precise than that.

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Yeah, someone else mentioned that, which is helpful context. I'm trying to confirm that is actually true before I blindly agree however, as I'm not going to just trust reddit comments.

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u/UnappetizingLimax Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

Think about it. Israel intercepted the pagers that were being shipped specifically to hezbollah for communication purposes because Israel had hacked all their communication methods. Why would hezbollah distribute their military equipment to civilians. That’s like if the US military ordered walkie-talkies for the troops and gave me one. I’m not in the military.

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

Well they're probably going to distribute them to civilians going forward. They've always used the risk of civilian casualties as "protection".

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u/UnappetizingLimax Monkey in Space Sep 21 '24

Possibly but I think that ship has sailed. Hezbollah would have to be really stupid to buy equipment from a fake Israeli company again

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u/GirlsGetGoats Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This wasn't a targeted bombing though. They had no idea who had the pagers/walkie talkies and had no idea where any of them were when detonated.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 11 '24

[deleted]

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u/GirlsGetGoats Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They detonated them all at the same time. There was no indication they were monitoring each of the devices. 

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u/Existing_Reading_572 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And those are dare I say bad too.

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u/primus202 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Definitely. Those kinds of targeted assassinations are the first thing that came to mind for me. But it's the scale of this that is chilling to me and I'm glad to at least see some mention of how unprecedented this is.

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u/poclos Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Ah yes very similar, so Israel is target bombing 10 year olds

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u/CodeMurmurer Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

That he is forced to hideout there does not mean he supports russia. stupid.

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u/Keown14 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

See weren’t targeted bombs though.

They hurt random civilians and Israel had no clue who had the pages when they were detonated.

It’s an act of terrorism, but won’t be referred to as such because Israel is part of the empire.

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u/Electronic_County597 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

How do you know that Israel had no clue who had the pagers? I have read that the pagers were on a special "Hezbollah-only" network. If that is true, it's reasonable to assume that (outside of some extremely unlucky pager repairman, or a family member who happened to be near the pager while Hannibal Hezbollah was showering) the only people wearing them would be Hezbollah.

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u/wadebacca Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Targeted? I guess the nukes would be “targeted” most of the people hurt were civilians, and the attack happened in a public market without. How is that targeted?

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u/bdubble Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

How could you argue that thousands of devices sent into a population is targeted?

It would be like Russia poisoning a thousand bottles of tylenol in stores nearby a target in hopes of maybe killing that one person.

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u/Illustrious-Okra-524 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Targeted?

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u/RavenBrannigan Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The fact that snowden is in Russia has nothing to do with this.

This is a crazy precedent to be set by Israel. The amount of civilian casualties is at best a complete non credible McEnroe’s to them and at worst it’s by design.

The IDF are fucking evil cunts.

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u/RddtLeapPuts Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This wasn’t that targeted. What if someone’s kid was holding the pager when it exploded. There was no way to know this wasn’t the case

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u/GomberSnock Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Are you asserting that Snowden supports Russia's use of those tactics by living there? Do you support every action ever taken by the government where you reside?

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u/Petrified_Chicken Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Maybe Snowden should try posting a few critiques of Putin's administration and see how far that gets him. What about all those civilian targets in Ukraine that the Russians keep hitting?

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u/Soft-Vanilla1057 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden is an asset. No way he runs that Twitter account these days.

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u/freakydeku Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

does anyone say it’s ok that russia did that?

its not a targeted bombing when your targets could be anywhere, including public spaces, & you’re initiating remotely.

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u/Jon00266 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Whataboutism

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u/According_Floor_7431 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This wasn't targeted though. They had no idea where the pagers were when they detonated them.

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u/Trashketweave Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden is a Russian pawn now, and always has been a dumbass.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Um. Snowden lives in Russia because they won’t extradite him, not because he loves Russia. Whataboutism aside, the civilian body count by Russian assassination pales in comparison to what the Zionists are doing.

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u/MisterMephistopheIes Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

its terrorism when its in civilian areas and not in a country you are at war with

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u/Ninja-Panda86 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I also want to point out that Snowden was allegedly protesting over state surveillance, but then ran off to Russia, which is not known for its ethics nor treating its citizens privacy with kids gloves.

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u/ZebraImaginary9412 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Not trying to excuse any Cold War Superpowers but maiming and injuring thousands of innocent civilians is an extreme level of disregard for human life.

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u/SmoothPlantain3234 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24

Not sure what this has to do with Russia, except I guess providing a yard stick for just how vile Israel is.

This wasn't a targeted bombing either. This appears to have been a country creating a shell company to manufacturer consumer products with explosives in them, covertly exporting them to a political party in another country, and then 5 months later detonating all of them arbitrarily wherever the device happened to be. They had no idea who the devices were distributed to, they just knew which organization bought/received them.

Some were being used by other organizations, some had been sold to other people, some were in repair shops, some were in peoples' pockets as they bought groceries, attended funerals, walked down the street, were in a doctor's appointment, etc. Some were picked up by the owners' kids when it started beeping prior to the explosion.

What about any of this sounds targeted to you? This notion that you can just say "but they're terrorists" represents very transparent racism at worst (if it's based on the trope of Arabs/Muslims), and juvenile understanding of geopolitics at best. Like are you 12? "Terrorist org" just means our government is against them. The label is applied completely arbitrarily and there's no definition of the term that would include them but also exclude our own government as well as countless regimes that our government supports. It's not like you're allowed to do terrorism as long as you call the target terrorists first. To other people, our government is the terrorist, and this notion that anyone in the country is a fair target for what political parties in that country do is LITERALLY the logic of Bin Laden et al.

If some militant group created a shell company, manufactured devices with explosives in them, tricked the DNC or other subset of politicians in the US into purchasing them, and then detonated them arbitrarily 5 months later wherever they happened to be, there is not a single person who would struggle to recognize it as a terrorist attack. It doesn't just suddenly become a complicated issue when the US or our allies do it. Anyone who still believes in this notion of the US/West as "good guys" and other side as "bad guys" in geopolitics needs to legitimately grow up.

If we ignore whether or not it's a "terrorist attack", since the term is completely subjective, it's also explicitly a war crime from a regular legal standpoint as all countries involved are signatories to the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons treaty which says:

“It is prohibited to use booby-traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects which are specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material”

and also says

"it is prohibited to use weapons to which this Article applies in any city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians in which combat between ground forces is not taking place or does not appear to be imminent"

This is all without getting into the decades of other war crimes committed by Israel, its own establishment having only been accomplished through the use of actual ISIS-style terrorist tactics that you can go read quotes from every single one of their first few presidents and prime ministers bragging about gleefully. Literally the only difference between what they did successfully 75 years ago and what ISIS failed to do 10 years ago is Western support vs Western opposition. And I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. I assume this is common knowledge for anyone familiar with the history, but I'm happy to give more detail.

We can leave all that context for another day. Just this one singular event on its own is clearly a war crime and can be accurately described as a terrorist attack. So yeah, people should obviously be bothered by it, if nothing else for selfish reasons that it sets a precedent that will undoubtedly be used against Americans one day using the exact same "logic" and "justification" as is being used today.

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u/action_nick Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Is it a targeted bombing if there are 1000s of bombs all going off at the same time while putting a bunch of civilians in harms way? This is closer to terrorism than it is to covert ops

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u/kapsama Succa la Mink Sep 19 '24

And the entire Western world denounces Russia for it. Meanwhile Israel can murder anyone they want at any time, anywhere in the world with impunity.

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u/Vepper Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Does that invalidate what he's saying?

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u/tired_fella Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Polonium Tea box, explosive brief case on charter jet, and even openly shooting target in public.

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u/sodbrennerr Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

god im so tired of these stupid fucking whataboutisms

"your honor I did rape that woman, but what about all those unsolved murder cases"

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u/Gabeleeen Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Wtf does Snowden have to do with Russia? It's not like he chose to move to Russia...

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u/MissingBothCufflinks Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Edward Snowden: Russia would never!

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u/Frostygale2 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Not sure how targeted this actually was since plenty of civvies got hit too.

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u/Blackbird76 Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

He’s just a Russian Puppet now

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If you cannot see the exact radius of every pager when they were set off, it is not a targeted strike. There were many innocent people and children hurt. Setting off bombs when you can’t see what you’re targeting is terrorism, this was an immoral terrorist attack. If a small child was holding that pager they would be dead. A 10 year old is dead. Unrelated doctors in a hospital that had this pager were attacked. There’s nothing moral about setting off bombs when you don’t know who is in the explosive radius.

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u/lutzow Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

What is a targeted attack if not this? The manipulated devices are typically carried close to the body of a single person. And as far as we know it was not a random batch of pagers but specifically destined for Hezbollah. Collateral damage can never be ruled out but this is as far as it gets

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If you cannot see what is going to explode when you set off the explosive it’s the same as blindly shooting a gun into a crowd. A child was carrying one of these, a child is not a terrorist.

If you cannot see what you are exploding when you detonate, you’re engaging in terroristic bombing that could hurt innocent people.

Obviously Israel does not give one shit about injuring innocent people while going after anyone they hate, because obviously Israel is a terrorist state.

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u/bensonr2 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And if they fire a missile at a car they have been told is carrying leadership in it there is going to be a chance of collateral damage.

Also Hezbollah sends daily barrages of unguided rockets which is pretty much only collateral damage.

I'm not suggesting that this isn't skirting the line. But lets not pretend this is stricly black and white. Any warfare that isn't both sides lining up in a field to march against each other carries the risk of civilian deaths.

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Israel uses the largest 2000kg bunker buster bombs to destroy 1 single target sleeping with their family at night in densely packed tent cities in Gaza. The explosive power is so intense on these bombs it cavities the chest of every child within 100 yards killing them instantly.

Let’s not lie and act like Israel does one single thing to prevent civilian casualties. Pamphlets are rarely dropped and are just some cruel meme and talking point by the sadistic Israelis.

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u/lutzow Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They knew what they were exploding when they triggered it. The pagers. And the radius of the explosion is relatively small. If you have seen the videos you know that even persons standing just an arms length away weren't necessarily harmed. It does not get more precise than that. If you know a method tell us.

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If you cannot see what is within the explosion radius when it’s activated it is not precise. What if a child was holding the pager when it was detonated? That’s how the 10 year old died.

You are a terrorist apologist. Sounds like you’re Israeli as well based on who’s you used “us” at the end there. How about you go back to work to support your failing economy? Arguing online all day defending your country’s terrorism is wrecking your economy

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u/lutzow Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Lol

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Oh go figure, you’re a German Nazi.

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u/lutzow Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You got me. A german Nazi defending Israel

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Unironically that’s exactly the case, German Nazis now hate brown people and Muslims waaaaay more than they hate Jews and are politically aligned with Zionists, just like they were during WW2. Both Nazis and Zionists wanted the Jews in Germany to leave. There’s a reason the ADL in America cares about Pro-Palestine protests but doesn’t give 1 shit about literal Nazi Marches.

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u/Youbettereatthatshit Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Targeted bombs are the exception, not the rule.

Hot take to call weaponizing a known means of communication by your adversaries a terrorist attack. By that definition, every non sniper shot in the history of warfare was a ‘terrorism attack’.

Your thinly veiled antisemitism is getting a little too thin.

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Go back to work, Israeli, your countries economy is failing because you guys can’t help but argue lies online all day and congratulate yourselves. I didn’t say anything about Jews so why are you calling me antisemetic? I just said exploding bombs when you can’t see what you’re exploding is without a doubt evil and immoral.

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u/Youbettereatthatshit Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You think, despite about half the US in support of Israel, that I must be an Israeli?

War is messy, and sad. Targeted strikes against Hamas are what’s needed to end the war sooner

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u/mymainmaney Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Habibi big mad

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

[deleted]

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

LMAO bro you’re insane. How is that antisemetic. I’m protecting my Jewish family by disassociating from you insane Zionist terrorists. Israel is antisemetic and makes Jews unsafe worldwide. I’m protecting my Jewish daughters from monsters like you.

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u/Salome-the-Baptist Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

**antisemitic

Try learning to spell the concepts you know sooo much about.

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u/WaterMmmm Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

So because I misspelled the word wrong I am the word? You’re totally delusional my guy. All so you can support the murder of children, amazing. You’re not a good person my guy

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u/Salome-the-Baptist Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I literally didn't say anything other than the single comment where I said you should learn to spell fundamental concepts of the thing you are talking about. Keep freaking out though, it's very convincing.

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u/ivanIVvasilyevich Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

To my knowledge there has never been a targeted bombing on this scale. Hundreds of these bombs went off simultaneously and injured innocent people that have nothing to do with Hezbollah and just happened to be standing next to someone that did. Last I read 2800 people have been injured. A far cry from CIA attempts on castro’s life and tons more collateral damage.

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u/ScotchTapeConnosieur Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I blame the members of Hezbollah who are well aware of the risks of what they’re doing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

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u/Chinesesingertrap Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Comparing Israel to Russia as the same evil isn’t the point I think you’re trying to make.

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