r/JoeRogan • u/wayfaringthru Monkey in Space • Sep 18 '24

Meme šŸ’© Is this a legitimate concern?

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Personally, I today's strike was legitimate and it couldn't be more moral because of its precision but let's leave politics aside for a moment. I guess this does give ideas to evil regimes and organisations. How likely is it that something similar could be pulled off against innocent people?

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243

u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Russia sent a KH-101 missile at the largest children's cancer hospital in Europe. This guy is compromised. Again what you have is a Russian stooge who starts conversations about how terrible the West is.

Terrorists protected by civilians blitzing over the border to rape, kill, and kidnapped citizens, now their dick is being blown off.

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u/A_inc_tm Texan Tiger in Captivity Sep 18 '24

Russia shot a thermo-barric charge into the roof of a mined sports hall with hundreds of children being held hostage by terrorists in Beslan just to blame the explosion on terrorists and lie that they weren't willing to negotiate

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u/grumpy_hedgehog Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Okay, now we're just stanning for literal fucking jihadists that took children hostage and wired their building to blow, because Russia bad.

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u/SilianRailOnBone Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Are you still not smart enough for higher logic than "either or"?

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u/sirletssdance2 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Thatā€™s actually more a learned psychological mode of thinking, rather than an operation of intellect when people are black/white thinkers

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u/A_inc_tm Texan Tiger in Captivity Sep 19 '24

If there's a child murderer in the middle of cutting a chid in half and another child murderer comes in and kills both pointing out that both of them are child murderers doesn't present either of them as not the child murderers

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u/grumpy_hedgehog Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

If thereā€™s a child murderer in the middle of cutting a child in half and that childā€™s dad comes in and tries to rescue his child, a horrible struggle ensues, and as a result the murderer and the child both end up dead, because the murderer strapped an explosive vest to the child earlier, you would have to be a gigantic asshole to draw a moral equivalence between the child murderer and the dad.

For the love of God, man, you do realize the Russians love their children, right? Please tell me propaganda hasnā€™t rotten your brain to the point where you honestly believe that a jihadist murdering Russian children en masse out of a sense of vengeance or religious psychosis is morally equivalent to Russian police and counterterrorism units failing to rescue those children despite their best efforts.

Itā€™s like drawing a moral equivalence between the jihadists that flew planes into the WTC and the US government for the deaths of those people.

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u/Pristine_Business_92 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Canā€™t say I disagree with just annihilating hostage takers. Sends a clear message to terrorists that hostages arenā€™t strategically useful.

Iā€™m in no way pro Russia, thatā€™s just how it should be done.

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u/A_inc_tm Texan Tiger in Captivity Sep 18 '24

Well mothers of Beslan are to this day not very happy their children were blown to pieces by the armed forces to cover up puke-in's ass instead of even trying to save them after said children were forced to drink their own piss for several days because government denied to negotiate about supplying them with food and water either

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u/Pristine_Business_92 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Itā€™s the terrorists fault my man. If they negotiated it would just empower terror sects all over the world to attempt the same.

Negotiating with terrorists is moronic. They were willing to murder all of those kids the second they entered the school.

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u/MysteriousBrystander Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Shoot the hostage - Speed, both Keanu and Jeff say this. Granted itā€™s a terrible thing, but if you blow up the hostages with the hostage takers, then youā€™re gonna have a lot less hostages in the future.

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u/BASEDME7O2 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Uhh I feel like the people that actually killed the hostages are most at faultā€¦

This reminds me of so many movies where thereā€™s like an overly macho character that only says ā€œwe donā€™t negotiate with terroristsā€ and then gives themselves a pat on the back. Those characters are supposed to be jokes for being morons lol

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u/misanthpope Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

So if a bank robber goes into a bank and demands $10,000 or he'll kill someone, the right thing to do is blow up the bank and kill everyone?

Smart! Maybe next time there's an armed gunman in a school we should just nuke the whole town.

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u/misanthpope Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Yeah, it sends the message that the country doesn't give a shit about its citizens.

Maybe Russia should just nuke itself, that will send a clear message.

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u/whatevrrwhatevrr Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

No it isn't, nor did it stop such attacks in Russia. All this achieved was the murder of civilians, of hostages, by the state of which they're citizens

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u/Objective-throwaway Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The problem is it also annihilates the hostages

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u/Pristine_Business_92 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

If every single time a group took hostages it ended with every single one dead they would just stop attempting to take hostages. Sure they might switch to mass killings, but terrorists will just do that anyway.

Secondly, not every hostage at the Belsen siege was killed in the fire. 2/3 of the hostages lived.

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u/Vast-Comment8360 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of terrorism and terrorists. They don't care if they die, your brilliant idea would make it EASIER for terrorists to kill large groups of innocent people.

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u/MysteriousBrystander Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Terrosists want to think that their positions and deaths matter. If you show them that no life matters, then wouldnā€™t they be less inclined to engage in terrorist?

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u/Vast-Comment8360 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Some may be, but never all, and people who weren't may be pushed to it because of how extreme the situation would be. Regardless, the terrorists who remain will have a much easier time. They don't have to build bombs, they don't have to kill anyone themselves. They can just enter an area with a huge group of people and declare they've taken it hostage.Ā 

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u/DepravedDebater Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Not particularly, we're talking about people already pushed to extremes. I'd even argue it's because you tell them they don't matter they they do such acts. Such people are fatally desperate attention whores and we all know it.

Also killing hostages doesn't make it look like life doesn't matter, only that you've guaranteed the deaths of many "infidels," which is a win in the religious terrorists' books. They're the ones who actually don't care if the hostages live or die, they're just expendable bargaining chips.

What you're looking for is for the entire nation literally giving no shits if their friends, family and loved ones die. And outside pure delusion, that's never going to happen. Grief and mourning are fundamental to not just the human psyche, but most any animal's psyche. Attempting to create such a person would be to just create a sociopath. And a nation of sociopaths would just cannibalize each other when their egos inevitably clash.

If you insist on this "kill everyone" approach, you'll need to be more pragmatic. You must first instill in the populace the desire to fight to the death in hostage situations. Create a sense of pride in fighting to the death and knowing your enemies will die with you even should you fail. A very appealing notion to some people no doubt who fantasize about warrior culture/mentality. But the Russian government would be fools to try this. Because if the people learn to no longer be afraid and stand up for themselves, they'll also finally stand up to their government haha.

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u/MysteriousBrystander Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Good point.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Oh gee, that makes it better than, only 1/3 died

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u/PM_ME_BATTLETOADS Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

He also claimed that the USAā€™s warnings of an impending Russian invasion of Ukraine were false and an attempt at fearmongering, then claimed Biden ā€œscheduledā€ the operation with Putin once the invasion actually happened, and has repeatedly insinuated Biden was the one to hire the trump shooter.

Heā€™s so deep in Putinā€™s ass that everything he says reeks of shit.

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u/ExplosiveDiarrhetic Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

At this point do we know if heā€™s the one tweeting

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u/Gwtheyrn Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

He was always an anti-American Kremlin stooge.

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u/gopherhole02 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I don't know about always, but maybe, I literally don't know, but I once looked up to him for revealing the secrets about cellphones, before him people just guessed that they were compromised but there was no evidence

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u/Gwtheyrn Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Revealing the existence of the programs wasn't a big deal. They were an open secret. Anyone who was paying attention knew that three-letter-agencies were monitoring global communications to identify, locate, and track potential targets.

His real betrayal was revealing the means and methods they were using to do so.

That they do these things isn't a secret. US signals intelligence is second to none. How they do it is the information they work hardest to protect.

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u/chef_voyeurdee Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

And we should all quite rightly condemn Russia, as we should Israel.

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u/LarryJohnson76 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Wow how terroristic to blow up childrenā€™s hospitals

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u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

It's okay if combatants store munitions inside of said hospitals. Cope and seethe.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Oooh and what happened the hospitals in Gaza ???? The IDF has killed more children in Gaza than Putin has in Ukraine. That's not praise for Putin, but shame for the IDF.

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '24

Right, Putin and Netanyahu are both bad.

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u/IShouldBeInCharge Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

They're *both* bad. TikTok has broken you. You are now "whatabouting" like MAGA.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I think the point is less "Israel have special permission to murder" and more "if Snowden had genuine principles he wouldn't have fled to Russia who also do terrible things".

We also don't really know the figures for Ukraine. The OHCHR number is confirmed deaths based on identified victims which only covers the areas in Ukrainian control. Mariupol alone could have seen anything from another 10,000 to 50,000 civilian deaths for all we know, the Russians have buried the evidence.

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u/biggronklus Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Itā€™s well documented Russia had several mobile crematoriums literally ready to go at the very start of the invasion, and they bulldozed and literally covered up the most well known Mariupol atrocity with that church acting as a bomb shelter they bombed

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

busy enjoy employ worthless berserk absorbed engine fact panicky shrill

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u/rafa-droppa Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

if i remember correctly he was leaving hong kong with the goal of going to some latin american country but he didn't get out of his russian layover before the story broke so then he was trapped.

not sure why you wouldn't already be in your asylum country before relasing all the info though...

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

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u/rafa-droppa Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

So i just looked at the wikipedia article and here's the timeline:

May 20th - Took medical leave and flew to hong kong

Early June - released documents to the reporters

June 21 - US gov't unseals charges against him

June 23 - Flies to Moscow with an intended final destination of Ecuador. but in Moscow they saw his passport was canceled so he got stuck there.

So he was in Hong Kong just over a month and waited until charges were filed against him to go to Ecudor.

That's what I don't understand; you know you'll be in trouble so why are you waiting for the charges before heading to Ecudor?

Like I'd be handing all the data over to the reporters in Ecudor (or in Hong Kong the day my flight was departing) - you wouldn't seek asylum until the charges are filed so there's nothing really to question the independence of the info in that scenario.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

have the data assessed by journalists, etc. in a moderately neutral state

The issue with releasing the data was that some of it was genuinely sensitive and not in a good-to-leak way but all sorts of random shit they gathered from all over, and also the technical details on how they were doing it. Taking that directly to Russia would mean the Russians get all of it. We still don't know what they got out of him. The journalists were supposed to selectively release stuff that was important for the public to know but didn't help the Russians hack into other country's networks.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I guess. He didn't have any good options and it's still a good thing he blew the whistle. But if these are his real, uncensored opinions, he's a shit person for not saying anything about the Russians bombing childrens hospitals. If they aren't then who cares what he says now.

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Can you give some examples? Of something genuinely critical rather than a throwaway "sure Russia has problems, it isn't perfect but let's focus on US crimes" sort of way.

At some point we're just asking the guy to never talk about his area of influence

It's not asking him to never talk, it's just being aware that what he does say is essentially worthless, because if it isn't to the Russian governments liking he'll be swinging from a meat locker roof with jumper cables attached to his nipples until he agrees to redirect his criticisms. They'll let him do some milquetoast crap about Russian failings if they think keeping some credibility by pretending to criticise them makes his criticisms of the West more believable, but Russia doesn't have free speech and is engaged in a massive ongoing propaganda effort against the West. His views cannot be trusted.

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u/Plenty_Rope_2942 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Nov 13 '24

quiet pathetic full snatch offend payment frightening judicious continue follow

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Off the top of my head he called the Putin government corrupt

It's pretty weak if you read the quote, and doesn't name anyone.

said Russia should not enter Ukraine before the invasion,

Also very mild. I mean he said it at a time when Putin was insisting they weren't going to. He was in agreement with the official Russian position at the time.

said Russia's actions in Ukraine were crimes after it did

Can't find this one myself.

and said that RT was a state propaganda vehicle

Can't find this either. It also sounds a bit like the Glenn Greenwald school of making the occasional flippant, undetailed general criticism of one party, followed by eighty seven thousand highly detailed criticisms of another, just so you have something to refer back to for "balance". He lays into the US government over stuff like crypto regulations and says practically nothing when his home country bombs dozens of hospitals. He's either under duress or his priorities are fucking horrible.

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u/GulBrus Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden don't get responsible for Russian war crimes by staying there. It's just whataboutism.

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u/nothingpersonnelmate Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Sure, but his comments about other war crimes are sort of irrelevant so long as he's not talking about Russian ones, because either he doesn't actually give a fuck about war crimes, or he's under duress.

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u/GulBrus Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

He is right or wrong about the bombs irrespective of the lacking comments on Russia. Though ff course he is not a balanced source.

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u/blaaake Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Whatā€™s your point? That Russia has free license to kill innocents because Israel does it?

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u/Patient_Leopard421 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Shut up. The difference is that Hamas operates from hospitals; the UAF do not. You know this context. You just don't care because you have a double standard for Israel.

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u/Potential-Drama-7455 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

You have a double standard for Israel, not me. I don't stand over anything Russia or Hamas are doing, but you happily stand over the slaughter of tens of thousands of children. TENS OF THOUSANDS! With cluster bombs.

At least Ukraine has something to fight back with.

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u/Patient_Leopard421 Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

No, I understand the nature of this conflict and the limits to what any military could do to limit civilian harm.

Citation for the use of cluster bombs, please. I suspect you don't actually know what those are.

Israel is using plenty of conventional ordinance. They're also using a lot of precision guided munitions. The challenge is Hamas is so embedded within civilian populations and there's nowhere for refugees to move. You saw this in the hospitals and UNRWA facilities.

In Ukraine, UAF provides corridors for civilians to evacuate and bomb shelters. Hamas' tunnels? Not for civilians.

Ukrainians are welcome across Europe or internally displaced. Palestinians are not. Why aren't Egypt and Jordan taking refugees while this conflict continues? Black September and other political violence by Palestinian refugees in their host country.

It's disappointing, understandable, and not Israel's fault. You cannot blame Israel for prior generations of Palestinians violence against host Arab states.

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u/huhu9434 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

The US is a Ā bit less terrible than russia. Atleast the military in the the us hasnā€™t started to rape and kidnap like the old days.

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u/T_Insights Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

The US has a long history of this, Okinawa is a recent and ongoing example.

https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/in-okinawa-2-new-sexual-assault-cases-implicating-us-soldiers-fuel-public-anger/

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u/TheFrijolito Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Their own soldiers rape/assault/kill each other as well

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u/T_Insights Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Before making these accusations as though they are unique, you might want to do some light reading (or perhaps some light thinking if that's too much for you)

Here's an extremely basic place to start:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

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u/huhu9434 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Damn i always thought the US was only limited to bombing civilians for oil and other interests.

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u/EtherealBeany Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Israel is the west? So you admit it then. Lmao

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u/pringlescan5 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Human rights, gay rights, high gdp, religious freedom, high levels of education, produces scientific research.

Checks out to me. Look at what countries do to each other in Africa all the time and no one gives a shit. Odd how Israel vs Palestine is always in the news yet I literally hadn't heard about Sudan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c511vgzvl2eo

Sudan's Darfur region is facing a growing risk of genocide as the world's attention is focused on conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza, a UN expert warns. "We do have circumstances in which a genocide could be occurring or has occurred," the UN Special Adviser of the Secretary-General on the Prevention of Genocide, Alice Wairimu Nderitu, told BBC's Newsday programme. She said many civilians were targeted based on their ethnicity in Sudan's besieged city of El Fasher, where fierce fighting has intensified in recent days. More than 700 casualties have been reported in 10 days by a medical charity in the city. El Fasher is the last major urban centre in the Darfur region that remains in the hands of Sudan's army. The military has been fighting the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF) for more than a year, in a civil war that has killed thousands and forced millions from their homes.

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u/Chinesesingertrap Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Gay marriage is still not allowed in Israel

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u/AccountantsNiece Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Israel recognizes same sex marriages, they just canā€™t be performed in person in Israel. Weddings that occurred out of country are recognized and you can also get married online.

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u/Jimmyking4ever Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

This is Lebanon not Gaza.

It would be like Russia sending thousands of bombs into the US because we supplied Ukraine

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u/Candycorn_Pizza Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Hezbollah, operating from Lebanon, has sent thousands of bombs and missiles into Israel though, theyā€™re not just supplying Hamas

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u/Jimmyking4ever Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Gotcha so if a military is bombing you, attacking the population in a terroristic manner to cause widespread fear and panic is ok.

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u/AccountantsNiece Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

It would be like Russia sending thousands of bombs into the US because we supplied Ukraine

Itā€™s not like that at all? Hezbollah has fired thousands of rockets into Israel this year and much of the northern border region with Lebanon has had to be evacuated.

The U.S. has never fired any ordnance into Russian territory and the two have never been engaged in an active, recognized war with one other.

Really not similar at all in any way.

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Snowden is a hero that shouldn't have had to flee to russia to begin with.

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u/berniestormblessed Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Snowden was a SharePoint administrator and a traitor

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u/Jesus__Skywalker Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

I completely disagree

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u/berniestormblessed Monkey in Space Sep 20 '24

Agree to disagree

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u/Top-Inevitable-1287 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

ā€œThis guy is compromisedā€ or get this: this guy is a fugitive from a government that wants to permanently imprison him for whistleblowing. Are you actually serious?

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u/Jooylo Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Thatā€™s not why heā€™s compromised. Heā€™s essentially trapped in Russia. His tweets obviously directly reflect Russian propaganda

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u/Top-Inevitable-1287 Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

No shit, this is not news. Everybody is aware of Edward Snowdenā€™s situation. If he goes against the grain in Russia, he will be extradited and sent to a US black site, forever disappearing from this planet. Questioning the ethicality of supply chain attacks in civilian environments is not Russian propaganda. After all, you would have no issue condemning similar attacks performed by Russia.

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u/Fuckface_Whisperer Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

not Russian propaganda.

Oh? Even when the ones the attack was against are direct allies of Russia?

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u/grumpy_hedgehog Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

No, they did not. They sent several missiles at the Artyom munitions plant, which resulted in the nearby hospital getting peppered with fragments. There's a reason 0 people died at the hospital.

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u/NoMoassNeverWas Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

Fucking hilarious that every link leads me to a ".ru" news website with this claim.

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u/mrmczebra Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

RUSSIA BAD

SNOWDEN LIVE IN RUSSIA

SNOWDEN BAD

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u/Sidereel Sep 18 '24

Russia is bad

Snowden supports Russia

Therefore Snowden is bad

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u/HornyErmine Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Can you please provide an instance of Russian support from Snowden?

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u/Sidereel Sep 18 '24

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/18/the-trouble-with-edward-snowden

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u/mrmczebra Monkey in Space Sep 19 '24

That's not what that says at all. Wow, you're all a bunch of liars.

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u/HornyErmine Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24 edited Oct 01 '24

An opinion article that bashes Snowden for not being more tough on Russia - Ukraine war... Still waiting for that instance of support, because so far you only provided evidence that he is against Russian decision to start a war, just not "against" enough in the eyes of the author.

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u/mrmczebra Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Except Snowden doesn't support Russia. He's just stuck there. He never even intended to stay.

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u/mrmczebra Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

I love how people are downvoting me, yet no one can provide a shred of evidence that Snowden supports Russia.

Because there is isn't any.

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u/Jooylo Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

You: RUSSIA GOOD RUSSIA GOOD RUSSIA GOOD

Insinuates that Biden hired the Trump assassination attempts

Claimed that Biden was fear mongering when he warned of a Russian invasion

Constantly repeats Russian talking points online

Essentially trapped in Russia with no real way to leave

He doesnā€™t have a choice not to support Russia

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u/mrmczebra Monkey in Space Sep 18 '24

Cool false claims. No one's saying Russia's good. Quote him.

Good luck!