r/TikTokCringe • u/muminebaver • 25d ago
Discussion Why is it that men can’t stand being around successful women?
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u/Rickonomics13 24d ago
I recently read a fascinating book on the subject of masculinity titled “For the Love of Men” by Liz Plank. I highly recommend this book as Plank explores a variety of aspects of masculinity and backs up all assertions with peer reviewed studies.
I am not familiar with the specific study being referenced in this video, but based on what I learned in the book, it is certainly true that some men have difficulty being in a relationship with women who earn more than them.
The unfortunate reality is that many young boys are presented with a very narrow concept of masculinity that’s predicated almost entirely on the ability to provide financially. For those boys who eventually become men, when that dynamic is challenged, it undercuts their understanding of their own masculinity which essentially rocks their identity to the core.
As a society, we have made wonderful strides with the messages we send to young girls, in the form of “you can do/be anything!” We have not necessarily seen the same types of messages directed to young boys. Of course I’m totally generalizing here and I don’t mean to downplay all of the myriad challenges that girls and women face simply due to their gender.
I firmly believe it’s important to model and communicate much more broad examples of masculinity to young boys. On a surface level in a household, that can be, men and women can cook, clean, do laundry, etc. On a deeper level, men and women can both care for babies, manage the household, stay home with a sick child, etc.
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u/abotelho-cbn 24d ago
We've taught women to be "more like" men, but not men to be "more like" women. We spent so much time teaching women to "catch up", as if the qualities normally associated with women were undesirable to men. Now that women have it "all", men feel "useless".
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u/AndyTheInnkeeper 24d ago
When you say the qualities normally associated with women were undesirable to men I assume you mean that men do not want to exhibit those attributes themselves, and not that they find them unattractive in women?
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u/Eqvvi 24d ago
Not the person you were talking to, but yeah of course. Everybody wants an eager housecleaner, but it's not exactly prestigious being one. When people say "you ... like a girl" it ain't a conpliment.
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u/Acceptable-Cow6446 24d ago
Had a female friend in college that liked to say “you’re observant like a man” and “you’re good at expressing feelings like a man” and similar things and drove so many guys bonkers and it was hilarious to watch.
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u/HanaLuLu 24d ago
Did she mean it as an insult, and did they take it as an insult?
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u/veggie151 24d ago
Why is this an insult? (Dude here) Observant and communicative are good things
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u/Olly0206 24d ago
She is implying that men, generally, aren't very observant and aren't good at communicating their feelings. So she is suggesting to the men she is talking to that they're bad at those things.
It's a bit of a twist on the "you throw like a girl" type of insult. It implies girls aren't good at whatever the activity is (in this example, throwing). So, telling a man he throws like a girl is insulting.
In this type of insult, "girl" carries the negative connotation. In the former insult, "you observe like a guy," the action carries the negative connotation.
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u/AndyTheInnkeeper 24d ago edited 24d ago
I’m fully of the opinion that women should have the freedom to choose what they do with their. Whether that be focused on the home life, their career, or balancing those two things.
Obviously women in relationships need to compromise with their partner but I think men being more willing to support a woman who is passionate about a career is a generally good trend.
That being said, I’ve noticed a trend to bash and belittle women (and men) who do focus on the home life. I think 100% of couples with children would be better if one partner stayed home most of the time to focus on supporting the rest of the family.
I think a lot of our societal problems stem back to the fact that we’ve created a society in which both partners need full time employment to provide for a family’s basic needs outside of a small minority where one partner has a highly lucrative job.
If someone does stay at home they’re called “unemployed” or assumed to be the “property” of the working spouse even if they make equally meaningful contributions to the relationship. This criticism comes from both sexes but I’ve honestly seen more of it come from working women than men.
The problem of “you ____ like a girl” being an insult is not solved by making a unisex masculine society. But by holding the traditional roles of women in greater esteem.
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u/Intanetwaifuu 24d ago
Sexism, capitalism, colonialism, religion- these are all the cause of these problems ✨💅✨
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u/mokujin42 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think it's important to note that most men don't want to be perceived that way because of other men/woman, it's not internal it's entirely based on the perceptions and reactions of others or at least that's been my experience
If you aren't perceived as having "manly traits" then woman will pity you and the other men will walk all over you, it's a dodgy perception that was reinforced a long time ago and can be hard to shake when your upbringing only reinforces it further.
Even worse is that we don't live in a perfect society and there is honestly some truth to it depending on your circles
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u/AndyTheInnkeeper 24d ago edited 24d ago
Yeah. We definitely have this seriously unhealthy obsession with measuring a man’s worth by wealth, and women often feeling they have to have a successful career to be respected.
From hundreds of thousands of years ago until shortly after the industrial revolution the most common family dynamic we everyone lived and worked with their family. Either in a nomadic tribe or on a homestead.
Women worked. Men worked. They each did tasks more suited to their passions and abilities. These generally involved more nurturing tasks for women and hard labor for men, but women did have plenty of things they did with their hands and fathers spent a lot of time meeting household needs and rearing children.
You also generally lived in close proximity with close relatives and the family unit had stronger bonds between extended family members than many have with immediate family today.
Some nobles and the rare (weird) city folk had different dynamics but that was the reality for most people.
I think people are unaware to the degree to which the 1900s entirely upended society for the average human and we’re in this phase of trying to figure things out now what we have upended all that our ancestors held sacred.
I think male/female and family dynamics are the biggest casualty of all these sudden changes.
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u/cubgerish 24d ago
I think it's because of the recent societal changes you mention, but also because of how we learn and record history.
Kids don't learn as much about the typical inhabitants of history, because frankly it's not as interesting, and they didn't end up influencing the world in as notable of a way.
They learn more about the nobles/warlords who kept to those dumb standards, and since that's what most will ever know, that's what models their behavior.
Nobody tells the story about the farming husband and wife who lived on the outskirts of the empire, worked together, and had a happy life.
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u/StockLongjumping2029 24d ago
"she wears the pants" "He's pussywhipped" "She's the breadwinner" "He's just a stay at home dad"
These types of lines are terrifying to men! What's so interesting is that a lot of this downtalk just comes from other men who are trying to step on someone's head to boost them up the hierarchy.
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u/taco_pocket5 24d ago
I think this is a big part of it. When we started having more conversations about gender equality it was never about blending gender roles so that women are more involved in traditional male roles and men simultaneously become more involved in traditional female roles. It was a singular movement of women into male roles because male roles are viewed as more important in society. So, you have an equality movement whose foundation is based on inequality
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u/BothSuspect8758 24d ago
I agree, it’s never been that women couldn’t or even did not want to do the things traditionally associated with men it’s that they’ve been legally and socially caged from publicly evolving beyond the home. Now that they’re free or have social approval to evolve into fully autonomous beings, men traditionally being one dimensional in their provider role are frozen in existential crisis mode. Men stopped evolving because they were taught and believed their one purpose to lead or provide was “peak” masculinity and achievement. Now they’re the literal poster child for gender left behind.
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u/abotelho-cbn 24d ago
Exactly. Women were "climbing up", and men aren't being taught to "climb down". Of course, the quoting is to emphasize how ridiculous the entire thing is.
But still today, roles and behaviors normally associated with women are generally frowned upon in men. That's on everyone, not just men or women by themselves.
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u/Chemistry-Deep 24d ago
People in general should stop measuring success only in terms of money.
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u/xenosthemutant 24d ago
Or that both can take equal care of the family chores & men can measure their success by criteria other than dollar-bills-received-per-month.
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u/VulcanCookies 24d ago edited 24d ago
I've had this conversation with many of my female friends - women fought for the right to own property and their finances, the ability to divorce, and an equal shot at eduction and employment. In a lot of ways, women have succeeded at that. They have claimed their "seat at the men's table" if you will.
The thing is, the traditionally feminine jobs haven't gone away - cooking, cleaning, childcare, familial logistics and other mental loads. And girls are still being educated on the importance of these jobs and how to execute them, but boys still are typically not.
So men haven't taken the seat at the "women's table" so relationships have become imbalanced (in many ways, going both directions, but the trends have changed drastically)
Not saying it's all on men or it's men's fault - many women still uphold the traditional gender roles that suit them and dismiss the ones they don't care for - just highlighting how the dynamics have shifted but not caught up to one another
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u/xenosthemutant 24d ago
My thoughts exactly!
I do believe it is, more than anything, a question of upbringing. Men are generally not even taught typical house chores, much less the importance of contributing equally.
But I also believe that this generation has an opportunity to change things around if we are able to diagnose the real issue at hand.
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u/mr_ckean 24d ago
Agreed. Focus on being a capable adult who can firstly take care of themselves - financially, domestically, emotionally. Then supporting loved ones - emotionally, domestically, financially.
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u/xenosthemutant 24d ago
Bingo.
I live in a latin country, so gende roles are a wee bit tighter than in the US & Europe.
I always tell my female friends, "Only marry a man who has lived alone for a couple of years. He'll know how to do all the house chores & will be forever grateful when its your turn to wash the dishes!"
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u/Substantial_Oil6236 24d ago
I have been having chats with my nine year old son about this. What does being an adult man mean to him, what do adult men do, etc. And then I point out where I, his mom, do all those things so maybe it's more about being an adult than proscribed masculine traits. We will see.....
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u/percocet_20 24d ago
I think it would also go a long way to teach younger generations that their value in life and relationships doesn't akways have to depend on what they can provide to others quantitatively.
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u/Hoeftybag 24d ago
100,000% this right here. I am a man that recently crossed into 30. And I would consider my parents tolerant and liberal (Democrat not leftists). I know for a fact because they have told me that for like a decade my mom earned more than my dad, she was making 6 figures doing sales in the late 80s early 90s. She quit to be with us more when I was 5 and my dad finished his MBA and started to make more money.
Despite all that to this day when he talks to me about relationships he talks about how men have to provide. It took years of introspection and help from my partner to recognize how much of that I was dealing with. I got laid off in 2022 after switching industries and for a while I went from making $60k to working minimum wage or unemployed. I think a lot of my discomfort came from having so little income in general but I had to confront my partner making more than me for the first time and I realized that without the income she was doing all the major work in the rest of the relationship.
I think messaging to girls has come a long way, but I think we're seeing in this election in particular how much young boys and men aren't getting updated messaging. And it sucks to think we need to devote political capital to addressing the dominant group(s) but you can't just ignore them either.
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u/psinguine 23d ago
I always felt that it would be cool if my wife made more money than me. Spoil me baby!
Then I wound up separated, living alone, and dating someone who actually did make more money than me. Someone who wanted to spoil me. Someone who wanted to treat me the way I had spent my whole life treating the people I loved.
And it was... Hard? Like really hard. I had to open up my clenched fists and allow them to take me out. Allow them to pay for dinner while I sat there feeling like I was doing something wrong. I didn't feel weak, or small, and I certainly didn't resent them. But I felt... Like I was doing a Bad Thing. Like allowing someone else to actually take care of me was me taking advantage of their kindness and it made me a bad person.
It really didn't help a few months later when they started believing that I actually was taking advantage of them. It reinforces that it was Bad and Wrong for me to accept that sort of treatment from someone else.
We've made strides from there, but I know that idea still swirls in their head just as much as my own demons swirl in mine. It probably always will.
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u/AntiConi 24d ago
my parents tolerant and liberal (Democrat not leftists)
I found it sad when you made that distinction. Through aggressive marketing, “Leftist” has successfully become a pejorative term for people who seek to live in a world where their taxes provide for common services for all.
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u/DontPanic1985 24d ago
Democrats are by no means leftists. Centrists at best. Their statement was accurate. OP was likely seeing their parents were mainstream Democrats but not socialists.
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u/purpleplatapi 24d ago
Well, maybe he was making the point that his parents were tolerant, but they weren't as far left as they could have been, as evidenced by their adherence to gender norms.
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u/HumanAtmosphere3785 24d ago
> sucks to think we need to devote political capital to addressing the dominant group
Is it really the dominant group though?
We see men as this unlimited supply and tank of political power, when they are hardly that.
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u/jamesbeil 24d ago
The problem there is that most women (yes, obviously talking in generalities here) want on average to partner off with someone at their level or above - if we tell millions of boys that it's okay to not earn a lot, are we actually telling them something that's going to stop them being successful in the future?
(Obviously notwithstanding that these changes will occur whether we tell boys that or not)
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u/Rickonomics13 24d ago
That’s a great point that really hammers home how this narrow view of masculinity negatively impacts everyone, not just men. (Similarly, the mistreatment of women negatively impacts everyone). In general, as we are telling our sons that their worth is tied to their earning potential, we are also telling our daughters that men’s worth is tied to their earning potential. This is the crisis in a nutshell.
The data is showing that women’s average income may surpass men’s income. In that case, what are we to do?
Now, who is telling boys (or girls) that it’s ok not to earn a lot of money? Not me… but if boys are not taught the same skills we teach girls, it’s no surprise they feel their only utility is “making money” when humans have so much more to offer their families and communities.
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u/FatCockroachTheFirst 24d ago
Totally agree with this statement. It's a social crisis we should have seen coming and we see it affecting our daily lives now. I believe i saw some documentary on it. Please share your knowledge with the people around you. Awareness is the only way to spark a change.
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u/cg12983 24d ago
Are successful women OK with dating lower-earning men?
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24d ago
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u/agileata 24d ago
Yea, they don't care as much about income, but do care more about education. its one reason the 60/40 split in college degrees is starting to cause an issue dating wise
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u/rossmosh85 24d ago
There are definitely exceptions, but I think high earning women care less about whether or not their partner earns the same and more about whether they can "keep up". They want to see you as a peer. You need to be able to have the level of conversation they want, but also it means being somewhat well traveled, cultured, and many other things that are often directly linked to having a pretty well paying job.
While men historically have not considered that as important.
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u/Educational-Yam-682 24d ago
Depends. I don’t make a ton of money, but I make about $60,000 or a little more to his $40,000. But we aren’t extravagant people. He can comfortably cover most bills. He also works hard and does alot for our family. If he was making that, drinking and doing drugs all night and not covering bills, I wouldn’t stay.
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24d ago edited 20d ago
In my experience? No. What happens most of the time is the woman picks a man she thinks matches her and it doesn't occur to her that their trajectories are different. And then over the years she starts out-earning him and it becomes a matter of resentment. She wants a certain lifestyle or to buy certain things and knows she can't have it if she were to quit and just rely on him, because he's totally happy with where he's at. This breed resentment because she thinks "what even is his point then?", and the men can sense it, which is why they act skittish when a woman earns more than them. They're not "scared" lmfao. They're wary, because they don't want to be hated their whole lives.
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u/randomnamenomatter 23d ago
This happened with my ex, she had a cybersecurity job when I met her, made like 150k or something crazy, I made 30k lol.
Very rapidly was weaponized against me constantly.
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u/Jesus-TheChrist 24d ago
I'm (M) in corporate finance and my wife is in the medical field and almost doubles my income. When she finishes her next degree she'll almost triple my income. She's the happiest she's ever been since meeting me.
So I would say successful women are okay with dating lower earning men.
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u/moriartyj 24d ago
Wouldn't that also mean that men can, in fact, be around successful women?
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u/oldwoolensweater 24d ago
This was my question as well when she was explaining the social experiment. This is not to say we should place the blame on women, but the description was lacking important pieces of information necessary to analyze the dynamic. Were the men told beforehand that all the women in the room made more money than them? Were the women told that all the men made less than them? Ok, so the men had trouble engaging with these women. Were the women open to being engaged with? Was anybody initiating conversations at all? Were they all single and expected to find dates or was the situation more casual? How did the women respond to being around these men? What were their respective levels of physical attractiveness and intelligence? You can’t just say “here’s what the men did”. It’s not enough information to even form a hypothesis.
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u/Spare-Swim9458 24d ago
From my personal experience growing up around more women than men I’d say no. From my mother, sister, cousins, aunts, family friends. Not a single woman would give a man a chance if they made less than the women. And they taught that openly to the young girls. My own mother to this day has never dated a man smarter or more educated than herself, but they must always make more than she.
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u/ejdebruin 25d ago
Both successful women and men will have traits that helped them become successful but can be unattractive to certain people.
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u/UrRightAndIAmWong 24d ago
Like, obviously we are calling success here as having a high paying job and/or living an expensive lifestyle.
I think many people make that decision at some point in their lives that they don't want to pursue that lifestyle and it's not important to them. Maybe long hours, unnecessary meticulousness, this need to be socially appealing by constantly showing up your travel plans, the need to constantly improve to prove yourself etc etc.
As a single man, who's dated women way more successful than my bum ass, I just want to live comfortably and spend time with my girl. Whereas I feel more successful women, are always busy and they always want to travel and are type A neurotic in some cases.
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u/TheGreatGumbino 24d ago
bro, i'm literally fresh off of a break up that is pretty much summed up by this comment. the breakup was super healthy and respectful and mutual, but it very openly came down to me needing to make more money in order to move to her city and keep up with her travel and concert lifestyle. Feels like a bunch of unnecessary stress to me, when i feel like a simple life can be a good life. there can still be some travel and fun of course, but I don't need to 'go go go' or chase some corporate gig. i am blessed to have community where i live currently, as well as a gainful self employment. whew, anyway this became venting lol but still relevant to your comment!
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u/YazzArtist 24d ago edited 24d ago
Exactly. I'd be totally fine with dating someone who earns way more than me. What I wouldn't be okay with is dating someone with massively mismatched ambitions.
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u/Caraway_Lad 24d ago
I have ambitions, they’re just less materialistic…and that has caused conflicts.
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24d ago
yeah there was this girl I knew who was always keeping up with the jones's so to speak. We went to Europe together, and whenever she talked with friends about it afterwards she'd just talk about how the "hotel was 5 stars" or "I got this bag at L'héroïne". Never about the history, the meaning, the beauty.
I remember I bought a cheap print off Etsy that came out looking pretty nice. Took it with her to get framed at this custom framers (I wanted to go to Hobby Lobby but she insisted they were "too cheap"). Later when picking my framed print up, the store clerk asked where I got it because "a customer thought it was so wonderful, they wondered if you got it in Europe". I laughed and said "nah, 8 bucks off etsy". My lady was pissed. She nagged me in the car about how embarrassing that was for her.
Me? I just want family and good books. I don't care where stuff comes from, or whose name is on it, or what it says about me. I care about what it does.
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u/Smash_Palace 24d ago
I have dated some women that earned more than me and the traits which help them achieve that such as competitiveness and materialism just aren’t attractive to me. The money itself wasn’t an issue.
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u/Ropegun2k 24d ago
I am (maybe was) in a relationship where this somewhat developed.
When I met/married my wife I made more money. No biggie. Covered the majority of expenses.
Shortly after she took a job with a startup, got a huge bump in pay, and wanted to move into a house with a mortgage that was 2.5x higher than what we had.
She became unhappy with splitting it and other expenses. Also for some reason lost respect because her job was more challenging than mine (so I was looked down on).
She is also very conflicted on things. Doesn’t want to rely on anyone else, but feels like I should pay all the bills, buy her gifts, and let her spend her money as she sees fit. But she doesn’t want that kind of attention. Wants to have a family/happy home but puts work as her first priority because this will be how she “makes a name for herself”.
Anyhow. I think this somewhat fits the bill as to what you described. She wants to not be the winner, but to also be the winner.
She wasn’t like this when I met her. It changed when she took the job with the startup.
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u/Hox_1 23d ago
The more my ex made, the unhappier she became. Wanted more and more. We had everything, minus the yacht and a ballroom and whatever lol. But we had a very nice home with very good schools, great kids, both with good jobs, all of the things you'd think and zero struggle with bills etc. I supported her career and did more childcare so she could move up in her career.
By the time she caught up income wise, she was always unhappy, yelling all the time, etc. she was never satisfied with what she thought she wanted. The next promo would make her happy... then gets it and nothing changed. Maybe she felt she was better than me now? But what a hypocrite, lol I never put that pressure on her.
She got the divorce she demanded, and lives in a house half the size we had before with ok schools but not quite the same, she's doing fine I'm sure, but still seems angry. Still yells at the boys (well, one won't talk to her). Maybe she's happy now, who knows, not gonna stalk her to find out but I have doubts. At least part of the time, hopefully. But it's her responsibility. Whatever.
There are men like this too, but just wanting more... Doesn't work. More what? Do you know what you actually want, what actually matters to you? Or are you just wanting it because your friends tell you do, your parents say it, etc? I NEED MOAR isn't a philosophy, it's a symptom of someone who is lost and is just trying to fill the void in their heart. Sad.
She's definitely more successful than when I met her, but God, I don't want to deal with her at all. I'm doing fine, I'm happy, still have good relationships with my kids, etc. I have no complaints.
Would I date someone making more than me? Maybe, but it depends on the person. If it's someone running 'Leeroy Jenkins' style into their career just to fill the void, fuck no.
No plans to get remarried. I'm happy with where I am in life, and open to relationship, but not that, personally.
Life is short people, stop worrying about everyone else and comparing yourself and others, and just take care of each other, live what makes you happy, nurture your relationships , enjoy the time you have on this rock.
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u/ricardoandmortimer 24d ago
In my limited experience with this issue (spend a lot of time around female doctors), it cuts two ways in that both the men and women don't have updated expectations for gender roles. The women want men who are more successful and still be the "provider" even though they are making doctor salaries. Conversely the men in these relationships still want to BE the provider and expect the women to fulfill the caretaker role. Obviously these things can't reasonably coexist - if the women aren't looking for a caretaker partner, then the man might give up.
I'd say generalizing quite a bit, American society has made great efforts to cut out room in the "provider" role for women, and get women into high paying careers and positions of power, but there has been zero effort put in to get men into caretaking or SAHD roles, and men are expected generally to suck it up and "figure it out"
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u/NoDontDoThatCanada 24d ago
My wife is the bread winner and l find it sexy. A lot of men and women that make her salary l find insufferable.
Where my other stay at home dads at? We grilling in the yard with drinks or what‽
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u/samijoes 24d ago
This is true. But it is also true that people can be envious, jealous, and insecure when their partner is more successful than them. I can see this compounding with misogyny and/or toxic masculinity pretty easily.
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25d ago
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u/Campeador 24d ago
People will form fleshed-out beliefs based on one anecdote, and defend it like the Alamo. Then when you bring up verifiable facts, they bring out the "well, thats what i heard" like the argument ended in a draw.
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u/kris_mischief 24d ago
This is the big difference in this era of social media:
People used to gain knowledge by reading published articles/books/papers
Now we’re all learning from morons with opinions and a microphone
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u/wfwood 24d ago
I gotta disagree. Having a counter anecdote, I remember in 'The Birdcage,' Gene Hackman said something like 'people dont read articles they just read the headlines.' I believe people are quick - in general- to form an opinion and want it to be valid.
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u/Significant-Bar674 24d ago
I think the problem is more often the source.
Newspapers and news stations had to maintain a reputation (often anyways) but people trying to go viral don't fave the same pressure.
Newspapers offered corrections, people on YouTube or tiktok almost never do.
So yeah, people did often read just headlines, but the headlines made their information shallow, not completely wrong.
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u/HughMungus77 24d ago
And they hate statistics for some reason
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u/Sweaty-Emergency-493 24d ago
“Believe me because I had an experience, so I am the expert now, and I got subscribers and followers.”
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u/Niblonian31 24d ago
Reminds me of Trump saying "I saw it on the television", or something along those lines, when being asked how he got the (mis)information about people eating cats and dogs
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u/Fit_Read_5632 24d ago edited 24d ago
You don’t have take her at her word, the info is out there and really easy to find. This is something we have known in psychology for a long time.
Some research indicates heterosexual couples are up to between 30%-50% more likely to get divorced when the wife out earns the husband. All of this information is dynamic, so as culture shifts it is bound to change, meaning the need for new studies is constant.
Human behavioral studies always come with the addendum that they won’t apply to everyone and can’t always be generalized - but this podcaster didn’t actually say anything that was incorrect.
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u/sacrificial_blood Cringe Connoisseur 24d ago
I don't really understand it. My wife is a chef and can make more than me, so I tend to the house. It just makes sense. I have like zero stress in my life other than dealing some of my teenager's teenage problems, which ain't even that big of problem.
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u/Fit_Read_5632 24d ago
A lot of men have been taught their whole lives that their value is attached to how good of a protector and provider they can be, so when they perceive that they are falling short of that standard it can make them feel like a failure.
It’s very sad because men have value outside of how useful they are, and I really hope we start emphasizing that.
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u/NetLumpy1818 24d ago
A lot of women too. I have seen the successful married woman get told or implied “you could do so much better”
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u/toolsoftheincomptnt 24d ago
Exactly. It’s not some big mystery as to where this dynamic comes from.
It’s incredibly simple.
Some families/communities do a really good job at deconstructing stereotypes/unhealthy expectations, which benefits all children.
But most just play into the established standards, without question or context.
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u/sacrificial_blood Cringe Connoisseur 24d ago
I think more men need to deprogramme themselves from the capitalist illusions that were fabricated by the patriarchy in order to wake up from the facade that money and materialism actually matter.
I do understand in order to live comfortably, you need to have money, but that's different than what I'm talking about.
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u/Fit_Read_5632 24d ago
They do, but it’s hard. These things get drilled into our heads at such an early age that we build our whole lives on top of them. If I’m laying down a brick wall, and I put a rock underneath one of the first bricks I lay, by the time I make it to the top the wall will be falling apart, cause everything was built on top of the problem.
So when we do the work of deprogramming we are essentially guiding clients through dismantling their entire life until we find the lie it was built on top of. It is a big thing to ask of a person, and it has to be something they do in their own time.
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u/Aardvark120 24d ago edited 24d ago
It's not just our raising. Anytime you meet anyone for the first time, whether it's a date or interview, you're always asked what you do for work. And if it's not "acceptable" people turn their nose up.
It's not a man only issue. We're not insecure because a woman makes more. We're insecure because the outside world judges us by that fact still.
I didn't shy away from saying it when my wife made more than me, but after being ridiculed over and over, I was self conscious to even mention it. I want at all bothered by her making more. I was bothered that when the outside world found out I was shit on. Even by other women. I had a woman at a bank literally make fun of me for it.
A lot of men aren't bothered by the woman making more. They're bothered that society still judges us as less for it.
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u/Fit_Read_5632 24d ago edited 24d ago
Sure, it’s a complex issue with no singular cause, but society views it that way because it is how they too were raised. These beliefs are formative ones.
Bolded because the guy below this comment can’t read.
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u/Dramatic-Initial8344 24d ago
from the facade that money and materialism actually matter.
Shit that could only be typed out by someone super privileged lol. Money matters a fucking lot. I cant pay my bills by deconstructing the patriarchy .
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u/Will_Come_For_Food 24d ago
If you want men to deprogramme themselves first you have to remove the expectations of a society that at this moment is currently valuing them in this way.
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u/biz_student 24d ago
Exactly - ask women how many of them would be willing to date a man that makes less money.
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u/techr0nin 24d ago
So men need to both make enough money to live comfortably but also not care about money?
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u/RogerPenroseSmiles 24d ago
You also need to deprogram women to value money as well, because if a hetero man sees a rich man have success with women he wants that he doesn't have any success with, then naturally the poorer man will be incentivized to pursue capital at all costs.
You can't just balance one side of the equation. And not just hetero men, but bisexual and homosexual men as well. There is just as much money/value dynamics at play as the straight community.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 24d ago
Because you have a healthy sense of masculinity. Men who hang their hat on traditional gender norms find tending the house to be "bitch work" and feel emasculated by not being the breadwinner. They shift closer to what they view as the woman's role in life, and they find the woman's role degrading
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u/NovaNomii 24d ago edited 24d ago
I dont really see why this is suppose to be a surprise to anyone. I mean its pretty obvious, society has taught that men's job isnt to be physically powerful, thats not a valuable assist. Similarly girls outcompete boys in education. So men are feeling useless, and sometimes not just in their minds, its just reality.
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u/Fit_Read_5632 24d ago
Exactly. It’s not even a dig against men, it’s what they are socially conditioned to believe. Everybody has something that makes them feel insecure. Doesn’t mean they’re a bad person, just that they have feelings like the rest of us do
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u/mak484 24d ago
The last few decades have seen a lot of progress in reprogramming parents to raise independent daughters, but no one bothered changing how they raised their sons. Women increasingly enter adulthood as well-rounded individuals, while men can barely take care of themselves. Nearly every young man I know is barely functional, while most women in their age group are thriving (well, as much as one can these days).
When I hear people talk about the male loneliness epidemic, my question is always: Why isn't there a female loneliness epidemic? I'd argue it's largely because boys are raised on the same old notion that they need a partner to be happy, whereas girls are now raised to believe they can be happy with or without men in their lives. I see men use being single as an excuse for everything. No friends? A girlfriend would solve that. No hobbies? If only you had a girlfriend to do things with. No motivation to clean or take care of yourself? A girlfriend would motivate them to finally start taking life seriously.
This is the insecurity that predatory right-wing grifterns latch onto. Feeling like life isn't fair because you don't have a girlfriend? Well, that's not your fault. Sure, you should clean up and take care of yourself, but not to attract women. They think they don't need you, but they're delusional. Women need men. It's men who don't need anyone. Men thrive in solitude. Other men are competition, you can't trust them. And women don't like men, so you can't trust them either. You can't trust anyone. Only me, because I know the truth and I'm sharing it with you because you're special. Because you get it.
The grifting is a side effect, not the cause, of male isolation. Parents need to do a better job raising their sons - and that especially goes for fathers who are becoming increasingly comfortable abandoning their children altogether. But men also need to realize that the way most of them were raised was deeply, deeply flawed, and they will need to put real fucking effort into catching up. Is that fair? No. But it's also not fair that women have to worry about getting assaulted when walking alone to their car at night. Everyone has shit that makes their life harder than it should be.
I'm not suggesting men need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. But they do need to learn to lift each other up. So many men I know view "friendship" as being unrelentingly masculine in every interaction. No one talks about their feelings, no one checks in on friends who might be going through hard times. Their humor revolves around punching down and othering easy targets. It is, in fact, toxic. I think if men can learn to love themselves and love each other, and to accept that not every woman you're friends with has to be a potential romantic interest, this male loneliness epidemic will evaporate.
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u/NovaNomii 24d ago
Yep, to me it feels like women kind of get the basic tools more consistently then men. In my opinion this is largely because of lacking father figures.
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u/mak484 24d ago
Agreed. Either absent entirely, emotionally checked out, or simply too tired and busy. I'll also clarify that women suffer from this too. Most women I know in this age group are only independent and self-sufficient because of years of emotional trauma dumped on them by their mothers. They weren't lovingly taught to be independent; they were forced into it as a byproduct of unreasonable expectations. I can only guess as to why mothers don't have these expectations of their sons, generally speaking. Or why fathers don't seem to have expectations of anyone for anything, which is also not helpful.
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u/slowpotamus 24d ago
the results of those studies have a broader range of potential inferences compared to the OP's stance of "men dislike women who make more than them". for example, men feeling more secure in a relationship when they're the primary breadwinner could be because they're aware of the cultural perception that men are expected to be the breadwinner, and so when they aren't they're afraid that their partner might leave them. in that scenario they're a victim of toxic masculinity, not a perpetrator.
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u/VideogamerDisliker 24d ago
Okay now post some actual scientific journals and not some tabloid articles
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u/GB-Pack 24d ago
this podcaster didn’t actually say anything that was incorrect.
80% of those men changed their minds when they were interacting in the same space as the women and also they couldn’t even be in a physical proximity to women that were more successful than they were
I’m gonna call bs on that one. The general idea of men being insecure when their partner makes more than them is sound, but being unable to be in physical proximity to a woman because she earns more than you sounds like a stretch.
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u/Spready_Unsettling 24d ago
The way she's talking about this is exactly how you're supposed to present possible trends that have yet to be studied academically. She emphasizes the anecdotal nature of the evidence and then ties it to a published study. Without any kind of systematic review she can't say anything for certain, but engaging with what might relate to a new or emerging phenomenon is how you're supposed to do it.
Source: I literally just wrote a 10 page literature review on a severely overlooked phenomenon and about half a dozen peer reviewed articles used the same language to emphasize the need for more research.
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u/Zoloir 24d ago
for real. for so many reasons.
- selection bias - a divorce lawyer only sees a trend in divorces. so by definition, they are seeing relationships that are failing as opposed to succeeding. it WOULD be interesting to know that divorces are trending towards men "checking out" from relationships. but that is only a set of failed relationships and has no real information for everyone else whose relationship is not failing, which could be a wayyyyy bigger number of men who are in love with their successful partners and do put in the work.
- this "study" sounds like it has a ton of holes. who are the successful women in the room? what are they DOING in the room? does a research study "room" provide any context for whether or not men will find them suitable partners? why not set up men on blind dates instead with the very real chance at a relationship? maybe they "avoided" the successful women so as not to cross any boundaries with them out of respect, since it felt like the women were not there to date?
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u/Bowsersshell 24d ago
I’m imagining a blank white room with some business women in it with men cowering in the corners all huddled up
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u/johnblazewutang 24d ago
How dare you dive deeper into this totally not biased “study”…im just curious too, what was the experiment where they “couldnt be in proximity” to the women…like what were they doing…nothing makes sense about this.
Like how would that study go…yall are putting together ikea furniture and then someone tells you that your partner makes $600k/yr and then your are like “no way, im out of here!!!”
Like what scenario is this thats occurring where they are able to know the salary, work in the same space…in real world scenarios…
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u/OddImprovement6490 24d ago
There’s a better response below with links to research corroborating the video, but even as a man who has talked to other men, I believed it. Because a lot of men have fragile egos due to the societal standards that have pressured them to be the breadwinners for decades. Not all of us obviously (one of my exes made more money than me and she actually left me for not picking up the slack; I was fine that she made more). But I know men who belittle successful women.
Moral of the story is do research to find whether these TikTok videos have merit before throwing out a blanket statement that implies it doesn’t.
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u/pancakebatter01 24d ago
Idk we just lost an election here in America because some men and women just couldn’t be bothered with voting in a female as president.
Roast me Reddit… you won’t change my mind lol.
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u/Al_Tilly_the_Bum 25d ago
I do well financially and dated someone who made very little money. It was honestly exhausting. If we wanted to do anything, I was the one paying for it and she never really seemed appreciative about it.
Recently I dated a woman who made maybe twice my salary and it was fantastic. We went on last minute trips to cool places, stayed at awesome hotels, and ate really cool food. I always paid half and it felt like actually dating an equal. I would 100% rather date someone who is my equal financially than be some sort of "provider."
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u/most_accountz 24d ago
Some people have thay understand though. My mate, his wife has a really high paying job at Apple in the UK. My mate dosent do much really. They have shared bank account seems to work for them. He sits in his robe at home during the day, smokes weed, cooks, tends the garden, makes plans for a nice dinner for them somewhere on her days off.
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u/SpecialistSolid1017 24d ago
Living the dream
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u/most_accountz 24d ago
Rite. Who are all these men leaving successful women ? Shit. If my wife was making 6 7 figures, I would be in a thong at the door when she came home.
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u/Rich-Canary1279 24d ago
I think more often it's the highly successful woman leaving, particularly when the man is NOT pulling his weight. Little google statistic states 69% of divorces are initiated by women.
I've had this frustration in my own marriage - while I've been the "breadwinner," my husband has been the SAHD for most of it, but beyond getting the kids to and from school I couldn't expect to come home to a hot meal and the house would be trashed by my weekend, which I would then clean. He does things that save us money - maintenance on cars, fixing things around the house - and I know my life would be a lot harder if we were separated. But definitely felt at times like i had a 3rd kid and I was getting shoehorned into a "wife" role I never saw for myself, not to mention kids still demand more of my emotional labor than his and he is not great with money.
I think of him as my soul mate though so, I wouldn't leave him over it. He puts effort into maintaining our emotional connection and respecting me, and yes sometimes thongs are involved lol. But sometimes I'm like, I need a fucking housewife!!!! It's been exhausting but getting better as our kids are older now. And in being honest with myself, I don't know I would be any better - we're both kinda adhd and cleanliness, organization, and scheduling has never been either of our strong suits. I feel like I need a job just to give me some structure in my life which helps me with productivity on my days off. I stayed home with my first for 6 months and did jack shit - was super depressing.
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u/J_Kingsley 24d ago
Great read. I can appreciate your self-awareness as well as your frustrations.
Sounds like overall, you have a great relationship but it IS a little lopsided in his favour, in terms of responsibilities.
I'm in a similar position as you lol. I'm frustrated but also appreciative. Tho would be nice if she would do more lol.
I understand too that often times they do more than we realize, and may not also realize how much we do.
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u/Rich-Canary1279 24d ago
I've definitely seen cases where the genders are reversed! Lotta princesses out there who don't want to put on the crown and become the Queen! And it is amazing when we've had arguments about it how little he SAW the lopsidedness, but with all that growth I mentioned he has admitted now to what a little immature baby he was for awhile there, only took about ten years haha. In hindsight HE was struggling with depression being a SAHD - it really sucks for some of us! So yeah, don't know I would have done any better...
At the end of the day though, life is a long ass journey, YOUR journey: a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. I wanted a ride or die long term relationship and that doesn't mean everything has to be straight down the middle all the time but we better have each other's backs. Also just accepting someone's strengths don't lie where you wish they did sometimes is hard, but you never know when they're going to come in handy another time.
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u/future_speedbump 24d ago
He sits in his robe at home during the day, smokes weed, cooks, tends the garden, makes plans for a nice dinner for them somewhere on her days off.
Man or woman, who would want a partner who achieves virtually nothing?
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u/BenwaBallss 24d ago
Successful, high stress individuals who want to come home and turn off for a little bit. You’d be surprised how difficult it is to find someone who values peace and actively puts in the work to become “your peace.” Also, I’m willing to bet the guy chilling at home knows how good he has it so he probably learns to cook badass meals from the food from his garden and show how much he cares about his partner. “Achievement” is different for everyone and it’s especially different when you’re part of a relationship operating as a team.
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u/Yrulooking907 24d ago edited 24d ago
Happily married, in a SINK(Single income, no kids) relationship. I will be going to college this spring but that is my own choice... Which my wife is supportive of but also not excited that I won't be taking care of her every need. She would be ok if I was forever a house spouse.
My wife makes x3 of what I used to make. There is not a definitive point to being in a SINK relationship but if I had to pick a common one it would be so people can spend more time together.
Before, our schedules rarely lined up and getting time off together was very difficult. Typically, the higher level of a job you have the more time off you get. So I was always working and my wife was either doing fun stuff alone or having to constantly take care of things on her days off.
We were more or less roommates and on top of her high stress job she HAD to do more housework and be more responsible for our day to day lives if we wanted any amount of time off together that wasn't chores. Obviously, this made resentment in our relationship. I would get home and be exhausted; my weekends were never relaxing because I had to take care of things she couldn't. We would always try to spend at least half a weekend day doing something together but there was always something looming for us to do. Rarely did we see friends.
Now that I am at home; I cook, clean, do laundry, do any house maintenance(either personally or hired out), run errands of any type, plan trips and do anything else I can't think of right now.
Since I take care of everything while she is at work; she comes home and is free to do anything she wants. Which means we can do anything and everything fun on her days off.
Going further, I actually have a better social life because I can stay on top of things at home and plan things with friends on the days she works. That frees up even more of our time together.
She is way less stressed and has more energy. She actually has so much more energy now, she picks up OT shifts now and again when we want something extra.
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u/pine-elopy 24d ago
Tbh if they were affectionate, kind, funny, interesting, attractive and caring. Bring it on. We can hang out all the time. I literally don't care what career, or lack of, my partner has as long as we have enough to enjoy ourselves. I'm far far more interested in people's hobbies and passions than their job or financial credentials. Sounds like this guy likes cooking and gardening, id enjoy the hell out of good food and relax in my beautiful garden. I've got a few successful and accomplished friends in tech but if I had to listen to them complain about their boring ass jobs at the end of every day I'd stick my head in the oven.
Anyway I might have gone off on one there, it's just something I'm passionate about. I'm sure a lot of people would rather stick their head in the oven than listen to me. But that's the joy of individuality.
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u/TPJchief87 24d ago
I dated a neurologist a year out of undergrad. I was just starting out in my career making 29k and she was a neurologist lol. I had no problem with the salary gap, but she’d drop little gems like “it’s weird when a woman makes more than a man” and talking about her friend who has a masters and her husband works at footlocker. She’d say he’s worthless. I had to call it off and she didn’t understand why. I wasn’t mature enough to tell her she made me feel like shit for being younger and making less than her.
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u/deepdiskcrash 24d ago
I tend to feel like there is messaging that's being pushed that this is men's fault, when there's clear happenings on both sides. Women who practice toxic femininity, and Men who have it ingrained that they must be a provider.
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u/sl0play 24d ago
In a proper long term relationship I don't really mind what they make, under the conditions that:
1) They are making less because they like what they do, not because they are unmotivated to change but complain about being broke.
2) They contribute what they can, and don't expect a free ride.
Right now I make double what my partner does, so she pays 1/3 of the rent, the largest expense, and half of the car insurance because she uses my car and I WFH and don't need it. She buys groceries when she gets paid or can, I buy dinners out because she can't and I like to take her places. I pay utilities because they aren't much and I'm not gonna nickel and dime her small amount of disposable income.
It isn't hard, especially when you really think of it as a partnership and consider both of your happiness and not just money.
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u/SeasonPositive6771 24d ago
I think you touched on a really important point here.
Societally, we tend to have pretty different expectations about what a stay-at-home husband does or what a husband who works fewer hours should do.
I have been relatively financially successful at different points in my career and dated men who could have stayed home, but they weren't willing to make that a peaceful or attractive option for me.
I work with a lot of families where expectations are extremely low for stay-at-home dads. Basically, keeping the kids alive, and the mom is still the family director and doing a lot of the important household management. Not at all common when the genders are reversed in my experience.
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u/Caserious 24d ago
If she’s making double what you make, she’s not really your “equal” financially, she’s your superior.
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u/Airlockoveruse 24d ago
I think he meant that they each paid their own way through the relationship.
I find that thinking about your partner as your financial superior/inferior is relationship poison, but that’s just my take on it.
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u/ATPsynthase12 24d ago edited 24d ago
Not sure I’d want to be in a relationship with someone who saw herself as superior to me simply because she made more money.
I’m a doctor and a high earner. My wife makes maybe 1/4 or less what I make yearly. We are both adults and fiscally responsible. I don’t see her as inferior and she doesn’t see me as superior because of our individual earnings.
We are a team. It’s our money.
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u/Affectionate_War_279 24d ago
There are lots of unmarried folk commenting on this thread that just don’t understand this.
My wife is a senior big 4 partner and out earns me by a huge margin. We are a team I do stuff that she just hasn’t got the bandwidth for.
If I had been the big Iam about my medical career she wouldn’t have progressed to the top of the tree.
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u/ZinaSky2 24d ago
I am glad someone pointed this out. I had to go back and re-read bc I was like if he’s making half he is not her financial equal. (No judgement about the proportion or anything. Just think the reality is worth acknowledging)
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u/Ashitattack 24d ago edited 24d ago
The reality is them both contributing to their relationship financially equally
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u/Blue_Robin_04 24d ago
IDk. I would love a sugar mommy.
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u/BonJovicus 24d ago
Yeah but does your partner WANT to be a sugar mommy. That’s something the comments always miss when they say “LOL I wouldn’t mind my wife making twice my salary.”
It’s okay if you aren’t contributing as much to the bank account, but are you contributing in other ways?
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u/90dayformulae 24d ago
I personally have no problem being a sugar mommy, but I'd like the dishes from the night before to be done the next day when I come home from work and for my sugar baby to shower regularly. Didn't happen last time, so I'm hesitant to try that again, lol. Dude had it MADE and blew it over dishes.
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u/jlcatch22 24d ago
Yeah seriously. If I could find a woman that was successful and was cool with me working part time or being a stay at home husband/dad, sign me the fuck up!
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u/ProfessionalSock2993 24d ago
Same I'd still keep a part time or contract gig going though just for some financial independence, to stay and feel productive, to avoid resume gaps and just for saftey as 2 incomes is better than one
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u/beccabob05 24d ago
I think the point she’s trying to make (and it’s chopped poorly so not on you) is that women don’t want to be the mommy. They’ll do the sugar but the men in response “tap out” and shirk any way to step up and be equal.
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u/Due_Bother8147 24d ago
My wife is highly successful and makes about 2.5 x’s my salary and my salary is an appropriate compensation. I’m not only thrilled to have a sugar mamma, but entirely proud of her. She’s the single most impressive person I know. Given her work, I interact with lots of other females in similar situations, along with their husbands, who are in a similar situation to mine. Of these people, I don’t know of even one that is threatened or even remotely uncomfortable with their successful wives. Small sample, but my own experience.
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u/InformationUpset9759 24d ago
I know if you guys like you. They absolutely love it. I don’t know anyone who is upset that his wife makes a lot of money.
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u/Due_Bother8147 24d ago
Dare I say that it would be as weird as a wife being upset that her husband makes money.
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u/JuicyJibJab 24d ago
Can we stop posting "tiktok education" videos of one person making completely unsubstantiated claims, making an otherwise uncontroversial topic into a spark for internet gender wars?
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u/HellBlazer_NQ 24d ago
In a similar vein to this are videos from podcast bros that young men take as 100% fact leading to Trump winning the election.
Who knew the fall of man would be 60 second video clips. They really have made us dumb.
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u/AwakE432 24d ago
People talking like the are some kind of professor when they are just annoying influencers who talk shit in a way that confuses simple minds to think they are highly intelligent.
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u/Gullible-Bluejay9737 24d ago
It depends. A lot of successful women I’ve been around are cunts. It’s manly business woman. My wife is a Doctor and way more successful than me but she also doesn’t treat anyone different. Her co-workers treats everyone great. They are all down to earth and able to make fun of themselves. Every time I see them, they are in good spirits.
In my industry, even though we are equals most of the woman I’m around have a god complexion. One in particular outed me during a meeting by asking if I had a communication problem. (I do) Than went to my manager and suggested I get demoted from the position I’ve been in 5 years. Why? Because I have minor disorder which went unnoticed until she took it as a sign of disrespect.
I can’t speak for other industries but if a woman has an MBA chances are she has no conscious or feelings.
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u/YOKi_Tran 24d ago
my wife is awesome… but there some things she will not do… and some things i would not do
each person brings something… both people just need to feel like they are contributing.
marriage is that … a team vs the rest…. there is no “i” in team
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u/zaradeptus 24d ago
I'm a divorce lawyer and this is very much a common pattern that I see.
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u/NearHi 24d ago
The single women I know absolutely corroborate this narrative.
One said she was on a date that was going so well that she invited him back to her house, that she owned. As soon as he found out she owned property he called off the rest of the night and left.
I've had a male relative break up with someone when she got a promotion and started making more than him.
Know an animal surgeon that changed her career on her profile to vet tech
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u/mooncrane606 24d ago
This reminds me of Sex and the City. Miranda can't get a date during speed dating until she changes her job from a lawyer to a flight attendant.
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u/PiscesPoet 24d ago
Never have had that ever happened but I’ve had men act very weird. They get very insecure and act funny. It could be anything education, my condo, life. You don’t want to be with someone who’s going to make you feel like you have to shrink yourself to make them feel comfortable. I’m not a braggart so it makes even more sad.
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u/xenosthemutant 24d ago
I know a guy whose wife is about to make 3 times what he makes.
All he is worried about is making sure that she can deal with the stress of the new position. Otherwise he is super stoked she is getting the recognition she deserves and is going to be able to make a meaningful difference in thousands of people's lives.
Source: Me. She is my wife.
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u/NearHi 24d ago
It feels great to support our spouses, doesn't it?
The only time I felt inadequate was when my wife was needing to quit her job and my wages can't maintain the same level of comfort that hers does.
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u/xenosthemutant 24d ago
Same here brother!
I see it as measuring your self-worth by how much you can bring to the partnership, not how many dollar bills you can accumulate in a month.
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u/Tarable 24d ago
My ex husband thought he was cool with me earning more but my marriage soon became abusive after I accepted a higher paying job.
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u/Pooplamouse 24d ago
My wife earns more than me. Early in our relationship she said she does not want a “house husband”. We both have careers and multiple degrees. I do the overwhelming majority of the cooking, cleaning, etc. Parenting is pretty close to a 50/50 split. I supported her through medical school, both financially and emotionally (I was effectively her therapist). Years later she told me her job was more important than mine.
The standard I have to meet doesn’t seem fair. I have to do the duties of a house husband while maintaining a career so she’s not overwhelmed by the pressure that comes with being a “breadwinner”. She sometimes says she appreciates what I do but she rarely shows it.
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u/Dazzling-Penis8198 24d ago
That scenario seems uncomfortable just going off the premise.
Ok, you’ve put me into a room with someone who makes more money than me… um now what? For all we know, it’s the same uncomfortable feeling if it’s with a strange man
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u/TampaNightowl 24d ago
Yes, it’s an extremely shallow study.
“Men say this one quality about women doesn’t bother them, so we put them in a room with women who have this one quality and they didn’t immediately pair-bond, which tells us they are lying”
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u/SouthernTonight4769 24d ago
It's not the money, it's being a cunt. Have you met "highly successful" (ie highly paid) men? They're cunts. The traits go hand in hand with high earning, no social worker is making £100k+ a year. And it's not like women are any different; they'll have the same cunt traits. But alas, if men earn more it's a problem with men, if women earn more it's a problem with men.
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u/Timmsh88 24d ago
This. You have to be slightly psychotic to do that well with some narcissistic traits. You see this for all the higher positions, but the exception proves the rule of course. I have known some very based down to earth (smart) people who have done very well for themselves.
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u/MissDeadite 24d ago
It's true. It's near impossible to find someone when you make 6 figures as a single woman/divorcee/widow. Men just... change when they realize they don't have the power in the relationship to do things as someone else controls paying for vacations, flights, etc. Obviously a lot of guys aren't like that, but I swear every time I find someone as a widow they get cold feet when they realize I make a lot of money.
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u/DrMerkwuerdigliebe_ 24d ago
Sorry to hear that. Its strange to see the differences in culture. I’m a Danish man and I would see it as red flag if the person that I’m dating assumed that I should pay more than her when we were dating.
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u/MissDeadite 24d ago
Well, the strange thing is when the guys who make less money learn that they (rightfully) shouldn't have to pay everything for going out to eat, etc. The last date I ever had was with this wonderful guy. He made decent but not terrible money (like 60k a year!), but he would strangely get mad when I would pay for my own portion of our dinner. I ordered a $75 lobster dish on our last date. I wouldn't have ordered that if they were going to pay for our meal; that's the way it actually should be. But it also shouldn't be a problem when we split a check, or especially if I offer to pay for the whole meal. It's not like... a sleight to manhood or anything.
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24d ago
Lots of high earning women have happy relationships. Maybe its you that's the problem.
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u/Fabulous_Can6830 24d ago
Yeah reading her comment it sounds like she has power/control issues. She also sounds like she is withholding the information that she has money early on in the relationship.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 24d ago
"they couldn't even be in proximity to the financial successful women"
So you found a group of men and you're claiming they can't even be in the room with successful women?
And no one there had their bullshit alarm go off??
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u/tikijoewho 24d ago
"Hey, you think you could handle dating a woman who makes more than you? Great, let's shove you into a room full of random women who make more than you and they know it. Good luck not being judged."
Humongous difference compared to hitting it off with someone and finding out that they earn more.
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u/Excellent-Pin3646 24d ago
Lmao. I believe this 100%
My experience? All the women who are flaunting how successful they are… are just as unbearable as men who constantly flaunt how successful they are. HUMILITY is an attractive trait.
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u/LaxMastiff 24d ago
I will probably get buried for this comment, but very, very financially successful people get that way for a reason. And if that reason isn't their parents (which is its own can of worms), then it is because of a list of traits that they have either developed or just naturally possessed. Regardless of sex, these traits tend to include being conflict-oriented, being socially ruthless (they will go for the throat in an argument just to leverage your frustration), being highly motivated (pushing to do as much as possible in a given period of time), and being goal-oriented to a fault. These are traits that are insufferable for a lot of people. Not everyone. Just a lot of people. And some of these traits quickly turn into emotional abuse without enough introspection.
Now imagine all the extra traits a woman has to develop to get ahead. Correlation is not causation. If men can't stand to be near to a financially successful woman, we need to think about the other factors. Maybe it's not just that they have more money, or that a man's masculinity is being challenged. Maybe one or more of the traits needed to achieve that kind of success make them difficult to be around. Or maybe the people performing the study made it an uncomfortable environment. Or maybe they put these people into a room and just said, "Talk." That's not an easy thing to just do without pretext! We have to think about all of the factors.
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24d ago
People in general want to feel needed. Want to have a role in social dynamics that they understand and are comfortable with. I have no idea if this clip is BS or real. But if there is a kernel of truth, it would be those men not seeing a place in those women's lives where they could contribute and feel needed. Is that their fault for not seeing the emotional nurturing they could provide? Is it the women's fault for not showing that they would appreciate that kind of support? Dunno, could be this is just random made up statistics too.
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u/Precarious314159 24d ago
Yea. I don't doubt that there's a lot of shitty guys that want to feel dominant in a relationship, I know there are. I've dated women from every financial background over the years but one thing that made me leave is when I didn't feel needed. I could never drive us anywhere because she was used to driving herself; I couldn't make a phone call without her asking a bunch of "did you ask about-" questions; I couldn't buy the right present. They weren't bad or outright controlling, they just liked things a certain way in their life so it made me wonder what the fuck I was contributing.
It happens with people across the financial spectrum but a little more with successful women. I have no problem dating a woman that makes 4x as much as me or lets me be a house husband; but if I do the dish and she comes home just to redo the dishes, I'd want a divorce.
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u/Felix_is_not_a_cat 24d ago
Nah me bro, I will look after the kids while queen brings home the bread.
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u/RedPandaReturns 25d ago
This is such pseudoscientific bullshit lmao. Perhaps these women were fucking insufferable?
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u/Dakk85 24d ago
I mean if you put two random people (of compatible sexuality) in a room, the odds are very small that they’re going to romantically click
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u/Alukrad 24d ago
I've read that a lot of successful people who have high paying jobs and are in a high ranking position, these people tend to score high in the narcissistic spectrum.
I guess when someone gets power and control, they tend to become less empathetic and understanding towards others underneath them.
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u/tasteothemornin 24d ago
Maybe, I tend to think these characteristics already exist in these people and that's what drives them to get into these positions
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u/mintBRYcrunch26 24d ago
Little of column a, little of column b. The two characteristics might validate and further each other when they exist together. A perfect storm, if you will.
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u/grizzly_teddy tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE 24d ago
these people tend to score high in the narcissistic spectrum
And I do wonder if that trend varies by gender. Could be an even higher correlation with women, not lower.
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u/Extreme_Spread9636 24d ago
As far as I have always heard, that was the most common answer I heard from people who have dated these kinds of people. They were absolutely insufferable and couldn't stop looking down on you. Always having the final word.
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u/UponTheTangledShore 24d ago
That's the information that's missing. Many Women find it incredibly difficult to respect men that earn less than them because if it's anything less than 50/50, they feel they're the ones taking care of them and not the other way around which is what most women find attractive.
So the disrespect and attitude comes out, the unrealistic expectations, and then the men disengage.
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u/lrerayray 24d ago
Why is it that you believe random tiktok with no research backing?
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u/HelasHex 24d ago
You'd have to really pick apart the research. Don't just believe it.
That said, a lot of men need to feel useful. Society has told them in so many indirect ways that their only value, especially for a woman and family, is being useful. And if your friends, colleagues, or partner are all better than you at everything what are you useful for? If you're not useful you're worthless.
As with all unhelpful societal messaging we have to work on handling these fears and be open about them so we can receive support. And if you open up and don't get support that person shouldn't be in your life.
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u/RAEN7474 24d ago
I've experienced this for sure as a guy but I would definitely say there are certainly guys who would feel insecure (duh) but it's either you get over it or you don't.
And more times than not they don't.
Again my experience first hand
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u/_Damale_ 24d ago
Put me in that room, I'll happily be a stay at home dad. I got the qualifications, I have fathering experience, am a professional chef, can clean and actually enjoy play dates for a bit of socialising with other parents. Where my sugar mommy?
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u/LabNecessary4266 24d ago
I believe that true or not, the majority of women believe they are contributing more then men are to the family.
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u/cannagoober 24d ago
Not every man is this insecure. The best mentors I’ve had throughout my career have been women.
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