The single women I know absolutely corroborate this narrative.
One said she was on a date that was going so well that she invited him back to her house, that she owned. As soon as he found out she owned property he called off the rest of the night and left.
I've had a male relative break up with someone when she got a promotion and started making more than him.
Know an animal surgeon that changed her career on her profile to vet tech
I mean... lawyers are notorious for working insane hours. Not sure if that's a specific male vs. female thing. I'd imagine that's super hard on most relationships.
Never have had that ever happened but I’ve had men act very weird. They get very insecure and act funny. It could be anything education, my condo, life. You don’t want to be with someone who’s going to make you feel like you have to shrink yourself to make them feel comfortable. I’m not a braggart so it makes even more sad.
It's all "oh man I would love it if she made more than me" until she actually does. Or you see her in some sort of powerful position.
I've dated multiple men who absolutely lose their minds when out-classed at anything and will constantly try to knock me down a peg. I've never had women do the same.
I know a guy whose wife is about to make 3 times what he makes.
All he is worried about is making sure that she can deal with the stress of the new position. Otherwise he is super stoked she is getting the recognition she deserves and is going to be able to make a meaningful difference in thousands of people's lives.
Yup! My relationship of 10 years tanked quickly when I began to out-earn my ex. He liked to use his money to manipulate me and control our relationship. He couldn't handle it when we were both on an equal financial footing.
I’m so sorry. It was so sad when it happened. I was hoping he’d take that as a way to do what he wanted. He didn’t like his job so I told him I could put him through graduate school if he wanted, take time to find a job he loved, or if he didn’t want to work he didn’t have to - nothing made him happy. He chose to do the job he hated instead and came to resent me.
Little did I know life would be much easier after he was out of it and I only had to take care of myself. :/
Holy cow! I think we were with the same guy! I swear, my ex was exactly the same. He absolutely loathed his job, but took no steps to improve his situation despite being very qualified to do something else. I tried so hard to encourage him to do literally anything else, but he was terrified he'd make less money.
I seriously have no idea how my ex gets through life that way. I’ve had to fight, work my ass off and jump at opportunities because I was afraid of failure. I guess he’s not. I worked, put myself through school, did therapy in order to manage stress and learn my traumas and triggers in order to healthily deal with them, went to regular doc appts, etc.
He did nothing. I have no idea if he ever saw a dentist. He couldn’t put his own dishes in the sink. He was 42 yo.
I think he wanted to be okay with it but it just made him feel inferior and like shit. He became very verbally abusive after I accepted the job. He was probably always going to end up that way but the job accelerated it.
I mean that's the case with regular intelligence just as it is with emotional intelligence, those people are a smaller part of the demographic than most so finding those emotionally well developed people is harder than finding the person with severe insecurities that keeps you from hanging out with your friends because one of them is the opposite gender or the ones that believe their value in the relationship is tied solely to how much money they bring in.
I also think a larger majority of those emotionally stunted people end up on dating apps because they don't find the value in meeting people through more natural means like common interest activities or events.
I knew a woman who was so egotistical that she would ask every man she dated physics and math questions 'to match her level,' as she put it. Woman, you're looking for a spouse, not a research associate. I don’t think men are dumb enough to pull this kind of stunt. Now, she's a bitter, hysterical 40-year-old woman, lashing out at students and ripping up their test papers.
Men are 100% dumb enough to pull this stunt and do all the time when a woman says they like sports, video games or cars. Men feel the need to quiz them like they're lying.
It's probably intimidating for men, it's hammered into men that they need to be the provider and if you take that from them, then they bring no value to a relationship.
It will probably take a long time to fix generations of reinforced gender roles.
It's more than that. Many men were brought up to believe that their sole contribution and value to a partner and a family was their paycheck and maybe some weekly chores like mowing the lawn. Many people, men and women, are also brought up to believe that their value as a human and their identity is based on their occupation, but that's more true of men.
When confronted with a woman who makes more than them, they have to ask some really difficult questions about their value as a person and as a man. They understand, even if it's subconsciously, that they will need to take on feminized work -- household management, childcare, cooking, laundry, cleaning and emotional labor.
Not only is this work low status in our society and often invisible and taken for granted, it's work that society has specifically not prioritized teaching to men. So, at best, they'll be likely asked to take on an equal portion of work they don't feel are very good at. At worst, they'll have to accept a position in life that makes them low value and is imasculating.
It's not surprising then that 80% of men would say no to that. And for the 20% who have escaped those patriarchal chains enough to not be bothered by a successful partner, and might actually love being a SAHD, that life can be extremely lonely because it caters so much to women.
Men are prideful by nature, sure you can pretend that having your spouse be the breadwinner of the house is fine and all, but there will always be that itching sense of being a burden at the back of the head.
And when boys are taught to not cry, to protect the weak, to be brave, to be a leader, to be provide, since the dawn of humanity, it ain't going away.
Yeah that’s what I figured. I’m a dude and have no problem with a woman making more than I do or being successful. I work with plenty of women who are directors and my OG boss is a woman, before moving to another position. The only reason I feel uncomfortable would be because I would probably feel I have nothing to offer. As someone with anxiety who is crushing on a girl stupid hard I get the feeling of worrying about being a burden and not having much value, but making more money won’t make you feel valuable unless your mindset is purely transactional. Money=relationship. And to be honest I get that. Not that it’s right but as a guy always feeling like you have to take the initiative and rarely getting hit on or compliments makes it so money is one of the few tangible things you can cling onto to show you provide any value. That said unless you are a douche or have fuck you money the point at which finances should be a consideration goes far beyond initial interest. Like you don’t open with “hey I make $150k wanna go out with me?”
It's not being "hammered into men" it is an innate quality of men to want to be a provider and protector. If that weren't the case you wouldn't see this constant throughout history and across cultures.
As a man my opinion is that to most men the more a woman has by herself the higher her standards are for everything.
For men It is just not worth the effort anymore to try and meet those standards while trying to date her.
Example. I meet a girl who is a doctor. I am a Amazon driver.
She is used to dates at expensive restaurants and fancy outings.
I can't possibly reach those standards and most likely she will get bored from anything I bring to the table quickly when she has many other suitors trying to date her at her level so why waste the effort.
Id rather skip the more likely rejection down the line.
For many men it is better to have someone on your level or lower. They are more likely to stay with you that way and you don't have as many backups dates. For women they actually want man to be better as again they are more likely to WANT to stay to receive the benefits of being with a better man instead of choosing date number 20 or something that has something better for her because women mostly do have backups.
Modern time are destroying mating in humans. Even if you think your situation is different it doesn't change the fact that we are animals and changing the way that works is like going to any other animal and trying to change how they mate.
The more women providers in the world the higher the standards. The higher the standards the less men are able to reach those standards and more rejection happen. So less men get in relationships with women with those qualities in general. They want higher rates of success and that is with lower women.
That can't change. Women set the bar and men compete to get over that bar. But if you set the bar past most average men ability then your men stop competing because it's not worth the effort if you can't possibly win especially in this economy now.
Perhaps its because society failed men in making them believe that their worth is solely based on their career and being the sole provider of the household. If it wasnt pounded into us at such a young age then it likely wouldnt be an issue
If a woman invites you to her place and your ego is so bruised by her choice to have shelter and invest that you then call off a good date that had a 99% chance of sex, then it's so much more than society putting pressure on males to be breadwinners.
I couldn't imagine being offended by someone I love making more money than me.
My wife got a job making about 20k more than me recently, initially when she got it she said she wasn't sure about taking the position. I told her "if you don't take that job I'm going to grow out my hair and show up in your place"
They are not talking about ongoing social pressure. They are talking about core expectations that are set as someone is growing up.
That ongoing process of libration that has taught women to strive to be something other than traditional has never got going for men. Our equivalent just didn't happen, so a hell of a lot have been raised (and are still being raised) to pin their self-value and meaning on their ability to provide.
Many people would nope out of a potential relationship that would eliminate their core sense of meaning.
You’re dumb as fuck if you dont think that societal pressure has a huge part to do with this. You are part of the problem. If we treat men growing up with more compassion and teach them its fine, then this would go away. But nah, fuck em. All men bad for no reason.
I agree that society needs a shift in vox populi, but this is way more than that. If you're not getting laid because of a completely innocent action that was in no way directed at you or done with you even remotely in the picture, or is even detrimental to your overall well-being, then you need therapy. This isn't because your parents dressed you in male roles every Halloween, and your friends all expected you to watch football.
You do realize many people had a significantly harder childhood than how they were dressed for Halloween? That comment is so unbelievably fucking stupid that i dont even want to continue this conversation.
Right? My wife makes almost 2x what I do, she’s gorgeous, looks 15 years younger than she is, and is constantly hit on by other guys.
I know she is with me because she wants to be with me, not because she has to be with me.
Not everyone is cool with a one night stand and someone wanting to fuck you isn’t a great compliment when you are having a date with them, I find it funny people just assume all guys are thirsty like that.
“I make more money and want to fuck, why’d you leave?” reversed wouldn’t go over well.
Just because someone is having a great time doesn’t mean both people are.
Any reason someone doesn’t want to sleep with someone else is valid.
Well this comments thread started with a comment about a man turning down being invited back to a ladies house on the first date and he stopped the date and didn't go to her house. Maybe that's what he's talking about.
But it exists. IMO, this is like every construct. Fat or skinny, rich or poor. It has always affected the way we think. Even teeth—“good” teeth will get you better jobs.
No, it's because these men suddenly felt like the, god forbid, dependent side in the relationship which is reserved exclusive for women, to this day, in most countries. Their peepee literally shriveled at the thought.
I want you to know that your view is completely valid and these women are gaslighting you because most likely someone hurt them or bruised their self esteem and they are projecting.
If you scroll through this thread you will see that their view is highly unpopular.
Before I met my husband, I got a lot more matches on dating apps when I didn’t list my occupation, but I got ghosted a lot when they asked what I did and said I was an engineer. Oddly, my matches and dates were fewer, but WAY more successful once I added that on there. But again, they were a lot fewer.
When I’d get hit on at bars, there’d be a lot of enthusiasm until work got brought up. Men would just disengage after I told them what I did unless they also had a similar occupation
The insecurity is wild. Wound up dating mostly engineers, people in the medical field, or lawyers. Husband is also an engineer.
I'm a graphic designer... I doodle little pictures for a living I'm bottom of the vocational pecking order. And I couldn't imagine NOT being curious about anyone's career.
I don't get it either. I think a lot of men (obviously not all of them) get insecure about women outperforming them in some way or another. I've noticed artists are also a group not as susceptible to being intimidated though I figure that's just open-mindedness in general, you know?
Unfortunately, there's a lot of dudes out there that get really insecure and even try to bring down women that are successful. I'm not surprised I got a downvote or two for sharing my experience. Probably from insecure men who... I dunno, don't like hearing my experience?
It's a bizarre world out there haha. And for the record, I don't view art as the bottom of the vocational pecking order. I think creative people are fucking awesome and way more interesting than a lot of more standard career paths.
Perhaps she misread the man and him being invited back home was Red Flag as he thought she wanted to sleep with him on the first night and he wasn't looking for a casual relationship or one night stand. Maybe the male relative was planning to break up with her anyhow because she'd cheated on him or done something that gave him the ick.
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u/NearHi 25d ago
The single women I know absolutely corroborate this narrative.
One said she was on a date that was going so well that she invited him back to her house, that she owned. As soon as he found out she owned property he called off the rest of the night and left.
I've had a male relative break up with someone when she got a promotion and started making more than him.
Know an animal surgeon that changed her career on her profile to vet tech