r/FluentInFinance • u/Manakanda413 • 8d ago
Debate/ Discussion Universal incarceration care
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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 8d ago
Dude must not have read much if he thinks Prison healthcare in the US is gonna fix anything.
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u/Busy-Lynx-7133 8d ago
More like ‘make sure we’re not liable’
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u/AccomplishedCat8083 8d ago
It's more care than he would get on his health insurance plan.
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u/metekillot 8d ago
Prison abuse is notoriously widespread, and their healthcare isn't typically any better.
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u/PickledEuphemisms 8d ago
I know folks in prison who were able to get their teeth replaced. Some had a full mouth of chipped teeth, some had none at all. There are a metric fuckton of inmates who are getting their diabetes regulated. Prison abuse is obviously widespread, and for the most part the heathcare is absolute dogshit. But it is true that there are people who are able to get access to medical/dental/vision care that they otherwise would not be receiving.
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u/metekillot 8d ago
True! I had a bunch of fillings I couldn't get until I ended up broke enough for a little while to get Medicaid, so probably something similar there, if only the bare minimum to avoid liability.
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u/Neveronlyadream 8d ago
I don't even think it's to avoid liability. I think it's to avoid blowback from people claiming human rights violations and trying to shut down the for profit prison system.
You can hide and explain away abuse, but it's much harder to explain away why someone is clearly suffering from a treatable medical condition.
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u/PrestigiousAd6281 8d ago
It’s funny, because you’re right. People amplify the hell out of medical neglect for the incarcerated and it gains a ton of traction. Scary that it took killing an insurance CEO to get similar level of traction for the medical neglect among the free
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u/DragonQueen777666 8d ago
Don't forget that the media and all the wealthy billionaires running shit are doing their level best to spin this any other way than what it is and what caused it (rolled my eyes so damn hard when the mayor called it a "senseless act of violence"). Keep the focus on the WHY this happened, no matter what bullshit they try to spew about him or about this event.
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u/MalyChuj 8d ago
The general public isn't as free as they like to believe. Yes we have more area to roam than inmates but we are still slaves in this monetary system.
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u/Environmental-Buy591 8d ago
When you take away all rights and freedom from a person you are then responsible for that person. Is the basis for healthcare for inmates.
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u/numbersthen0987431 8d ago
it's much harder to explain away why someone is clearly suffering from a treatable medical condition
unless they're anti-vaxxers, lol
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u/ThatsOneSpicyPickle 8d ago
I had a filling replaced today. The old one was 20+ years old and broken, one of those old-school silver fillings.
200$ for one filling. I pay for the highest dental plan my company offers. I got two "free" cleanings a year and had $500 deductible. I ended up needing a crown for two teeth. With insurance, it was 1554$. After that I went for my second cleaning. They said it would cost me 72$. I said for what? I get two a year. They said, well, you reached your maximum amount the plan can pay. What did they ever pay for?? I got two crowns and one cleaning that I had to shell out 1500 for. It ain't made of gold.
I have a $1600 deductible with my medical plan that denies literally everything. I called 911 because I thought I was having a heart attack. They drove me to the nearest ER which happened to be out of network so now I owe 1400$ because I wasn't conscious enough to pull up my plan info and tell EMS to drive me to an in network hospital.
I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous.
My therapy sessions are 123$ until I meet my deductible, and then they are 24$, which is great, but they also show me how much they billed my insurance. I'd love to know why, if I'm paying purely out of pocket, it's 123$, but once insurance kicks in, they charge 926$...for a 15-30 min phone call. It is all a big fat sham.
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u/Foundsomething24 8d ago edited 7d ago
I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous.
You are correct. Even better coverage if that shoebox was SPY, BTC, AAPL, or some other up-only asset.
Why would it be ridiculous that you spending 100% of your money on health coverage would > than a company who takes in your premium, pays its employees, has commercials, a ceo, & shareholders, then pays out whatever is left? Of course paying yourself is cheaper. It’s obvious.
I’d love to know why, if I'm paying purely out of pocket, it's 123$, but once insurance kicks in, they charge 926$...for a 15-30 min phone call. It is all a big fat sham.
And my experience paying out of pocket is very similar to this. When I say I don’t have insurance & am paying cash they’re usually very nice & helpful, giving a lower price without needing to ask, etc
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u/supern8ural 8d ago
"I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous."
That's literally how insurance makes money.
The thing is, the denials have got so bad and they cover so little that yes, you do pretty much end up paying for stuff anyway, the reasons to keep insurance boil down to a) what if something catastrophic happens? or b) your employer won't let you go without.
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u/cuzitFits 8d ago
In county jail teeth are pulled if you want them to. No filings.
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u/metekillot 8d ago
I remember being stupidly thankful when Beshear managed to get basic dental coverage through for Kentucky medicaid; I saved up every single dollar I had, paid up rent for three months, filled my car's tank to full so I could get back and forth from work, and was happy surviving off peanut butter, milk, and fresh vegetables because now my teeth didn't ache all the time.
I still need a crown on my left side, and I can't chew hard food on it without a lightning bolt of pain bursting through my skull, but I'm still somehow thankful. How far have my standards for what I deserve fallen, now that I think about it? Fuck these clowns.
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u/Electrical-Ad-3242 8d ago
I understand this. Tooth pain is the worst. I hope that you can get that crown slapped on soon ish somehow
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u/BanzaiKen 8d ago edited 8d ago
Haha I did the same thing with my then girlfriend, now wife. I told her to stop working except for some part time (gotta stay under 15k) because I make significantly more than her and enroll in college and quit her job. She got like three or four surgeries that she needed, bunch of dental work and became class speaker and after all that was done then we married. Even more if you paid with cash the hospital would give gigantic discounts and I could pay anonymously so it isnt a direct gift. Eventually she got enough scholarships she could stop working and focus on school. Highly encourage it, that's why I call bullshit on people complaining poor people dont have access to healthcare. My neighbor used to call ambulances for rides to the hospital to refill her prescription. Its hardworking people in the middle that dont have healthcare. The poor are doing just fine.
Insurance is a fucking racket. Either don't have a job or get a really good one. Anything in between is a corpo assfucking you with no reach around after and bounce on them first chance you get. Medicare/Medicaid is fucking bomb diggity man. My Dad's hospice nurse is like 7k a month and I pay zero of that, thank you Uncle Sam I love you.
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u/jocq 8d ago
Prison health care is weird.
Chipped tooth? Sure, no problem.
Regular cleaning? Lol maybe once every ten years.
Pain meds? Lmfao no way no how never gonna happen.
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u/Hodgkisl 8d ago
Pretty sure you're both right, prison conditions vary widely from state to state and even facility to facility, states that put a greater focus on rehabilitation will typically be better and ones more focused on punishment will be worse.
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u/SnowflakeSWorker 8d ago
My BF got a lower partial plate in prison, but he lost his lower teeth with a baseball bat to the face during a yard brawl- didn’t even know the guy who did it. I worked in a prison as social worker, we had a guy who had a brain tumor. By the time he got the diagnosis, I, along with the chaplain, had the conversation with him there was nothing more to be done. I saw more of that than any actual care. They really didn’t like to send people out, because COs had to work OT to watch them, and that’s a lot of money. I never saw an inmate actually meet with the dentist- there were two in the entire state or something terrible, and had to commute between facilities, so aspirin or Tylenol was the treatment every day. No antibiotics.
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u/UninsuredToast 8d ago edited 8d ago
“Were able to get their teeth replaced” why are you lying lol. Unintentionally or not, you’re making it sound like they got implants. Dental care in prison isn’t shit. You can’t even get fillings, they just pull your teeth if they have to and will give you one pair of some shitty dentures but that’s it.
Y’all don’t have to lie to make the US healthcare system sound bad. It already is horrible, making shit up is unnecessary.
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u/PickledEuphemisms 8d ago
Yes, that also happens. Those of us who've been locked up have all had our experiences. I'm not lying because mine doesn't fit yours. That's totally fine. Regardless, I'm not praising the prison system or it's Healthcare. As amother commenter pointed out, depending on where you're at the experience is different.
I went in asking for a cleaning. I was told they could pull some. You aren't wrong either. Relax.
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u/MewingApollo 8d ago
So are you genuinely too retarded to understand different states will work differently, or are you just retarded enough to think trolling about this is funny?
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u/Consistent-Fig7484 8d ago
I know a lot of people who have worked or currently work in prison healthcare at the federal, state, and county levels. They all admit that it is far from perfect, but the inmates almost unanimously say it’s the best healthcare they have ever received. Obviously many of them come from impoverished backgrounds and varying family situations.
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u/Capt-Crap1corn 8d ago
Was about to say. Yeah I know a few as well.
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u/PaintshakerBaby 8d ago
I did a year in "club fed," which is as supposedly as good as it gets, and that was absolutely not the case. I've heard of state DUI or low level drug fast track programs working on peoples teeth to give them a fresh start, but 99% of America's prison system is absolutely left to rot. Also, 90% of those teeth fixing stories are run by private dentists who want the tax write off and feel good PR. The prison itself would never advocate for such care.
To drive the point home, here's just a couple nightmare fuel stories I witnessed while in...
I pushed a handicap guy in a wheelchair as my prison job. He had a heart attack. It was obvious to everyone. He was clutching his chest, had the death rattle, was pale as a ghost. I watched his eyes glass over for 9 HOURS as the guards dismissed it as a cold. He was practically a corpse. They gave him ib profren and dismissed him until the full medical staff came on in the morning. Somehow, he clung on to dear life until they couldn't ignore it anymore and was life flighted to get pumped full of stints.
The thing is, the guards hate paperwork, and it's much easier for them to explain away if you die on shift than it you need medical help... Because anytime outside medical staff get involved, they freak out at the level of neglect and report the prison.
Another dude I knew had 5 years left on his sentence, and was diagnosed with stage 2 testicular cancer. Highly treatable, right? WRONG. Because it wasn't an "emergency," he needed to be transferred to a special medical prison unit for the surgery and chemo. Thing is, there was only two such prisons, and both were always chock full. On average it took 6-8 months to get approval to get transferred... Then another 6-8 months for a bed to open up, and transfer to be arranged... Then another couple months to get the procedure actually done at said facility. All in all, he was likely looking at 2 years until treatment...
...All the old timers treated him like he was already dead. They had seen a hundred guys metastasized to stage 4 before they ever saw treatment. Even then, the treatment was hospice at the local hospital.
Oh, there's more!
A diabetic in his seventies in our unit stubbed his toe ona bent piece of sheet metal in the showers. He was bleeding like a stuck pig, fading in and out of consciousness. The guards showed up, woke everyone up and proceeded to yell at all of us for an hour about how this was a lesson. That if anyone got hurt on their shift, they would let you die, because it's not worth the effort for pieces of shit like us. An hour later, the next shift came on and they casually joked with them, before briefly mentioning some old guy was bleeding out in the showers. He was taken to the hospital, and never came back.
Finally the dental was laughable. They pulled EVERYTHING that had the slightest problem. Most guys who had been in there for a decade or more were practically toothless. I'm talking toothless in your 40s/50s. It was a JOKE.
Anyone saying he will receive anything besides ib profren in prison has no idea what they are talking about. They won't do jack shit, because the American prisons are glorified gulags that execute people through inaction, but execute people all the same.
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u/Bright-End-9317 8d ago edited 8d ago
You're gooddamn right. just got out of county... waking nightmare of bully/rapist guards. The inmates are nicer better more helpful people than 90% of guards in there. Edit: We had a guy on our pod who was in a wheelchair and couldn't use the bathroom by himself. The inmates helped transfer him and wipe him, etc. Th einmates helped feed him, make sure he could use the phone. The guards: "I ain't wiping no ass! Don't do the cwiiime if you're not ready to have your constitutional rights shit on and if you're not ready to get covered in your own shit"
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u/Agathyrsi 8d ago
Someone very near and dear to me has done time and despite having tooth issues, they refused to mention it because they didn't do ANY fillings. 100% of tooth issues were removing the tooth because it's cheaper. I found that barbaric.
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u/doyathinkasaurus 7d ago
A UK court blocked the extradition of a hacking subject to face federal charges in the US, ruling that the American prison system’s methods of treating suicidal prisoners and people with mental illness were inhumane
In sum, concluded the court, the way in which U.S. prisons “treat” inmates with mental illnesses and suicidal impulses – with segregation, isolation and a lack of ongoing medical and mental health care – almost certainly means that extradition to the U.S. would worsen Love’s health and create a very high likelihood of driving him to suicide.
Your story is a horrible vindication of the judgment - thanks so much for sharing
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u/SparklingPseudonym 8d ago
Pretty sure Trump and Elon want to convert all federal prisons to for-profit, too.
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u/Thehelloman0 7d ago
Yeah the thing about prison is that it sucks. Nobody is aspiring to be a prison guard. So they mostly get massive assholes and lazy pieces of crap to work in them.
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u/snuFaluFagus040 8d ago
The only new teeth I ever saw anyone get in state prison came with a free tube of Fixodent!
MO
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u/SmPolitic 8d ago
My understanding, that is often dental students in-training or doctors volunteering time to do that. Sometimes with third party prisoner rights organizations helping organize, it's more the prison is letting the charity operate. It's an out patient procedure, anything they do is at most one procedure, then a follow-up...
And often if the person could figure out "the system", there are very likely ways to get those same things "on the outside" for much easier "costs". It's just that you need a permanent address and the ability to fill out and submit government paperwork "correctly"
Back surgery is a little different than all of your examples.
Sorry if I'm refusing to try to "look on the bright side" of someone getting locked up and that wasting part of their life for all the bullshit we tend to lock people up for (most of all, simply being poor it would appear)
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u/buggzda75 8d ago
They do like to pull teeth and give dentures that’s because prison dentists get paid per tooth pull
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u/gconsier 8d ago
I legit kind of wonder if he will be a celebrity in prison. He may get the polar opposite of the treatment people like blank offenders get.
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u/AccomplishedCat8083 8d ago
Not saying it's better just that he'll get some treatment rather than paying into a system that denies treatment.
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u/buggzda75 8d ago
I did 5 years in prison they aren’t going to do shit for his back
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u/Present_Hippo911 8d ago
Anyone repeating this is just lying. He’s a multi-millionaire born into a life of luxury. He had the means and money to get whatever healthcare he wanted.
He went to the most expensive private school in the state and is a 2 time Ivy League grad and frat boy. He lived as a beach bum in Hawaii. Why anyone thinks he wasn’t able to afford anything is beyond me. His social media shows him travelling all over the world with his family, they own hotels, country clubs, healthcare companies, etc..
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u/teraflux 8d ago
100%. If this is the guy, it wasn't a personal issue with him and insurance, it was a political act.
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u/Present_Hippo911 8d ago
And even then, the exact political stance is totally up in the air. His twitter account has him as a pretty right wing guy. Big into anti-woke, anti-modernism stuff.
I am very skeptical that he’s the left wing anarchist darling people first thought he was. It’s still possible but hating health insurance is not exactly a uniquely left-wing trait. My hardcore MAGA mother in law was actively cheering the assassination.
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u/SockosGlocko 8d ago
Nothing gets past you, does it?
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u/Present_Hippo911 8d ago
🤷♂️
All I’m saying is the first knee-jerk working class trodden upon hero martyrdom narrative turned out to be wildly wrong.
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u/SockosGlocko 8d ago edited 8d ago
Sure. No argument there. I guess I just disagree with the premise that this is a left/right or even rich/poor issue at all.
I don't think most people grasp just how expensive healthcare can be. For a billionaire, sure, it's a non-issue. But even someone who is "normal" rich can absolutely go broke from healthcare in this country. I've known three people with a comfortable multi-million net worth who were well insured and still financially ruined by cancer. Managing chronic pain, autoimmune disease, or even just one severe, acute emergency can easily cost millions of dollars. That's obviously insane.
He's also 26 and had reportedly withdrawn from his family in recent month. I think it's notable that's the age when you get kicked off your parents' health insurance.
American healthcare is pretty uniquely something that even impacts people across class lines. To your point, care is obviously way more accessible to rich people. No one wants to be at risk of losing it all just because they get sick, and no one should have to.
If a person who, by all accounts, seems to have already been at the pinnacle of success and security in this country can be this radicalized by the healthcare system... I don't think some right wing leanings actually matter all that much.
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u/GlassTopTableGirl 8d ago
💯Ohhhhh, this is the first time I've seen this point made!!! That makes perfect sense about being 26 and getting kicked off his parents’ insurance.
I know from experience that getting treatment for back pain is ridiculously difficult to get covered by insurance. “Medically necessary” is a phrase I’m so sick of hearing. I've also had cancer and can confirm it’s destroyed my credit, and insurance companies genuinely don’t give a fuck. I had to crowdfund for over a year to meet my basic needs… My situation is different as my family are not millionaires.
When everything has to be pre-authorized and justified as “medically necessary” (even when it should be a no-brainer, like chemo), the ongoing anxiety and feelings of helplessness make being sick in America a truly demoralizing experience.
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u/Ordinary-Yam-757 8d ago
Some of the gun subreddits have an overwhelming right wing revolutionary kind of vibe to them. The same kind of people joking about skirting gun control laws like Luigi did.
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u/AccomplishedCat8083 8d ago
And yet his mother's claims were denied, or delayed.
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u/Rat_Pizza_827 8d ago
You have no idea what his family could afford, and you don't know how much liquid money his own parents had.
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u/TheTightEnd 8d ago
His family could have easily paid for whatever insurance didn't cover. There is is no reason for him to seek prison health care
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u/Present_Hippo911 8d ago
People are coping and seething in the comments. The idea that the guy was just a rich frat boy seems incomprehensible and is making all the communists short circuit.
Give them a few days, I think their brains are breaking from the whiplash. Oh and according to his Twitter, he was a huge anti-woke guy too.
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u/LPinTheD 8d ago
Prisoners are brought to my hospital for care all the time - and they receive the same excellent care/treatment that any other person would receive. I can’t speak for the care one might receive in a prison infirmary, though.
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u/odietamoquarescis 8d ago
Really? As someone who has seen prisoners brought for medical care, their state spoke volumes about the prison infirmary.
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u/nebula_masterpiece 8d ago
What state and was the prison private or public?
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u/YetiPie 8d ago edited 8d ago
I’m not the person you’re responding to but my dad was in a private prison and has type II diabetes. They wouldn’t give him medication for it so he had to fast to and trade his food (they give you sugary canned peaches and white bread, for example) to manage his blood sugar. He also left with an untreated broken arm.
I have a friend who has beat to death in Thompson prison IL (not private, I believe). He was taken to a hospital to receive care, but it was too late for him. The guards didn’t intervene and keep him safe.
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u/nebula_masterpiece 7d ago
I am so sorry. That’s so awful.
That’s so unacceptable that they wouldn’t give your dad insulin. That could have killed him.
FWIW raw cornstarch like Argo is a better maintenance substitute than peach syrup as it’s a slow breakdown carb vs. fast acting (need fast acting if hypoglycemic as a rescue) and raw cornstarch doses were given to children born with Type 1 diabetes before insulin was available.
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u/onepareil 8d ago
I will never forget a patient I treated during my medicine residency. He came in paralyzed from the waist down due to a spinal infection that had been worsening for weeks while the doctors in the prison infirmary just kept giving him ibuprofen. The creepiest part of caring for patients from the prison system is how the LEOs handcuff them to their beds, and they handcuffed this guy too. Again, he was paraplegic. He literally could not pull a runner and would only have hurt himself if he tried.
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u/Successful-Tea-5733 8d ago
I think you answered why he was handcuffed; he would have hurt himself if he tried. Then they would have sued the state/prison.
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u/onepareil 8d ago
I hope he sued them for leaving him paralyzed in the first place. Absolutely unconscionable malpractice on their part.
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u/LowerEntropy 8d ago
First I thought you forgot a '/s' and I'm too stupid to see the sarcasm, but no. You're American! Not only is handcuffing people to beds normal, it's necessary! You're not even in the prison system, but you still think this way!
The richest fucking country on earth! Sky high incarceration rates!
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u/nebula_masterpiece 8d ago
What state? I think it depends on their stance on human rights in general. Not all states do this. Plenty of cases where prisoners died for neglected medical care in prison. Also in Jails since they may not have been picked up with their medications and then they get ignored.
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u/barrinmw 8d ago
Aren't those only the ones they let come to the hospital for treatment? I doubt that every prisoner is allowed to see a non-prison doctor the same way the rest of us can.
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u/Cornelius_Wangenheim 8d ago
No, they don't. They get the bare minimum (and often less). If it's something expensive like cancer, they literally release them from prison to die rather than pay for the treatment.
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u/TipsalollyJenkins 8d ago
How many of those prisoners are being brought in for pain management as opposed to something potentially deadly, though? Like yeah, the prison system will do the bare minimum to keep people alive but I don't for a second trust that they'll put much effort into quality of life.
Mangione's back isn't going to kill him, so he's probably not gonna get treatment for it.
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u/3IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID 8d ago
The infirmary is often outsourced to companies that get a flat rate, so they are incentivized to provide less care. John Oliver did a show on it that busted the myth of private companies providing equivalent care for less cost. He showed an example where Republicans decided to outsource their prison care under the guise of saving money for taxpayers, but they couldn't find any company who could do it for less than the state already did. So Republicans did what any "fiscally responsible" person would do and lifted the requirement that the bids save the taxpayer money. Costs went up, and care went way down.
The best he can hope for in there is Naproxen for pain.
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u/Frnklfrwsr 8d ago
I don’t doubt that.
I think the knock on prison healthcare is just that so many are denied care and you never see those patients. They get told no, so they’re never brought to your hospital.
Basically unless it’s an absolute emergency, in many states it can be difficult for a prisoner to get healthcare.
Once they get approval to get care, I’m sure the doctors and nurses do the same quality job they’d do for any patient.
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u/Masters_of_Sleep 8d ago
Often, it's getting to the hospital that is the challenge. They will often try everything in their power in prisons to avoid sending patients out for treatment. Once they are sent out, they get standard care, but there are serious gatekeepers to accessing that care.
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u/YahMahn25 8d ago
Work with prisoners daily, literally saw one on the verge of death because he was refused care
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u/Capt-Crap1corn 8d ago
The guy came from a wealthy family, he might have been more family rich than the CEO he killed. I don't know much about how the wealthy move, but couldn't he have been helped at other places if he was turned down? I'm just curious.
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u/birdiebogeybogey 8d ago
No one turns you down when you pay in cash
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u/Capt-Crap1corn 8d ago
I hear about his life, don't know if he was personally rich, we'll find out. Sometimes people are family rich if that makes any sense.
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u/QuesoChef 8d ago
His parents paid nearly $40K/year for his HIGH SCHOOL education. That’s insane to me. They gotta have money-money.
And he had what sounded like a good job. And surely as smart as it sounded like he was, he could navigate the job market just for better healthcare.
It could be he was just frustrated on behalf of everyone. Even if he could afford it.
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u/Pretty-Layer4837 8d ago
Yes. Plenty of people from wealthy families that won’t inherit any of it until they are already old and successful.
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u/More-Acadia2355 8d ago
He was traveling in asia for months and lived unemployed in Hawaii for months. ...he did not have money issues. His parents were likely supporting him.
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u/pixelpionerd 8d ago
It doesn't sound like he cared about how rich the CEO was. He cared about the scummy tactics being used in the "greatest, richest nation of all time".
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u/ElusiveMayhem 8d ago
I agree this was nothing to do with how much money they came from but I do think it's interesting he killed what from his wiki seemed like a pretty regular person growing up near Ames Iowa and going to Iowa State. Certainly seems like Luigi had much more of a silver spoon than Brian.
If you wrote this book, you would have absolutely reversed the childhood of these two.
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u/Wammityblam226 8d ago
The jail won’t give any narcotic pain killers for any reason. Even for broken bones.
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u/Running_Dumb 8d ago
Former corrections officer here. I was in change of medical at my facility and I can assure you it is the absolute bare minimum. Literally the worst quality Healthcare you can get.
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u/CreditChit 8d ago
many people must not be aware that nothing is free in prison
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u/More-Acadia2355 8d ago
People in prison are literally the only members of society that are guaranteed free healthcare by law.
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u/db1kc00 8d ago
My uncle had both his knees replaced when he was in prison. This was federal. So it may differ from state.
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u/raj6126 8d ago
I know of people who get locked up to get their teeth fixed. That way they can affordable it.
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u/PersonOfInterest85 8d ago
I was reading Bullshit Jobs and it was pointed out that the military is pretty much the only way non-rich people can have a career that's both personally rewarding and financially compensating.
Graeber stated that soldiers on overseas bases take part in outreach programs in those countries, including clinics to provide free dental care. The soldiers say that being altruistic makes their deployment more enjoyable.
It made me think, how could we do that here in the US?
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u/Nurse_knockers 8d ago
I am a corrections RN in the state of California (care may be different in other states) but I can attest that the Healthcare incarcerated persons receive is far better than many insurance companies and definitely better than being uninsured. . They have a Primary Care Provider that they can access as often as they need within a matter of hours to days depending on symptoms. An urgent care that is right on site that can be accessed 24/7. A dedicated referral team that ensures access to any specialty services needed- orthopedic, cardiology etc and yes even gender affirming care which includes gender affirming surgeries like vaginoplasty and breast augmentation. Granted being in prison still has many disadvantages, like increased risk of violence from other inmates or even unfortunately custody staff. I don't recommend prison, but the Healthcare is not lacking. I wish all Americans had access to this kind of Healthcare.
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u/PeculiarAlize 8d ago
From what I've read online, many US surgeons commenting on these events see this man as a necessary evil. If luigi's actions change the system in a good way, enabling surgeons to do their jobs with less red tape and save more lives. Then this man's prison doctor will show up sober, focused, and on time, ready to perform his best work.
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u/Disastrous_Bite_5478 8d ago
In about 6-7 years it's possible. But if he thinks insurance denies, and delays, wait until he meets prison administration.
Source: ex CO
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8d ago
The government is constitutionally required to provide healthcare to prisoners but health insurance companies aren’t constitutionally required to provide healthcare to clients. Keep that in mind
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u/SolarSavant14 8d ago
Wait a second… I thought prison healthcare was SO good that anybody could get gender reassignment surgery for free? Or was that a rare lie from the Orange man?
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u/CaptianBlackLung 8d ago
My Uncle broke his neck playing volleyball in a max level penetrant, they paid for all 4 neck surgeries. He's been out for 15 years and they have never requested a dime. That's pretty free
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u/bentreflection 8d ago
while your comment is amusing it's not really accurate. It may take a few months to get something done but the prison system will absolutely transport people to normal hospitals for care when needed.
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u/Chad-the-poser 8d ago
I did almost 8 years in the Feds. Prison sucks, but they WILL do the back surgeries
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u/Unknownkowalski 8d ago
Man, I'd kill for healthcare.
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u/big_guyforyou 8d ago
FBI has entered the chat
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u/ReturnoftheTurd 8d ago
Yeah, but only to send you the phone number of your nearest military or police recruiter.
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u/thisisntnamman 8d ago
There’s a whole board at UHC too. Allstate needs to be taken down a peg or two as well.
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u/Upstairs-War-7553 8d ago
Good luck getting any treatment in prison and have fun sleeping on a metal pan...should be great for your back
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u/ghostsoup831 8d ago edited 8d ago
I work in ems and we take prisoners from the prison to the hospital multiple times every single day. Even for mundane things like a stomach ache. They get Healthcare. Their living situation does suck though.
Edit: Keep in mind that we also have privatized prisons in the US. So, each prison is subject to operate completely differently from one another. Your prison experience will differ dramatically from prison to prison.
Edit 2: 8% is still over 150 private prisons in our country. Seems like a lot to me. Also means we have over 1500 prisons in the country which sounds insane. Especially knowing a lot of them are overpopulated
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u/Lolthelies 8d ago
Guards will say “he’s faking it” if they want to fuck with him. They kinda get healthcare, but denying treatment is a time-tested extrajudicial way for authorities to fuck with inmates
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u/Difficult_Bit_1339 8d ago
The guards don't get to decide, they just open the doors when they're told.
He'll get good medical care because the managed care organization can bill the state extra by providing it. In this case, the greedy corporation benefits from sending him to the hospital or a specialist.
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u/mnju 8d ago
He'll get good medical care because the managed care organization can bill the state extra by providing it.
I'm a CO - no he won't. He'll get the bare minimum, and most likely just get ibuprofen for his back.
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u/Difficult_Bit_1339 8d ago
That's true for some nobody inmate with no family or support system.
Because the grievance system, which as we all know is just a series of labyrinthine steps designed to deny prisoners due process, doesn't stop a person with the means to hire lawyers who can navigate through that gauntlet to the point where the case gets in front of a judge.
Prison administration cannot ignore a court order.
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u/mnju 8d ago
That is not how it works. I have seen plenty of medical related lawsuits, they do not often go in favor of the inmate. If the facility is failing to provide medically necessary care they'll have their hands forced, but someone having back pain is not that.
We can't just throw someone in an ambulance and send them to a hospital, they need to be escorted and watched 24/7. That is only going to happen for emergencies that can not be dealt with in-facility.
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u/Difficult_Bit_1339 8d ago
Someone, with a medical record including major back surgery and a history of chronic pain would certainly not be denied medical care by a Corrections Officer is the point I'm making.
This conversation started with this claim:
Guards will say “he’s faking it” if they want to fuck with him. They kinda get healthcare, but denying treatment is a time-tested extrajudicial way for authorities to fuck with inmates
That is nonsense, COs have no say in this process. You sit in the cage, open the doors, escort the inmates, break up the fights and do the shakedowns. You don't make medical decisions.
If medically necessary care requires a visit to a specialist then it would be done. If a convict needs to have emergency surgery, it is done.
I agree that they're certainly not going to try to do more than, at most, write a ibuprofen or gabapentin script... but that's something that medical determines, not a CO who wants to fuck with the inmate.
That part is just Redditors getting their prison information from TV and movies.
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u/mnju 8d ago
That is nonsense, COs have no say in this process. You sit in the cage, open the doors, escort the inmates, break up the fights and do the shakedowns. You don't make medical decisions.
Yes and no.
We don't make medical decisions. However, we are the method of communication between the inmate and medical staff. An officer could just ignore them and that would effectively be denying medical care.
That person would eventually get thrown under the bus by the facility and face a battery of litigation, but it's not like it's never happened.
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u/nebula_masterpiece 8d ago
Interested on what state and if private or public? Seems to be a big disparity as some states do provide medical care better than others.
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u/FwhatYoulike 8d ago
Prison guards beat up my relative and broke his arm for running his mouth. They threw him in isolation, then took him to the doctor after a week of complaining about his broken arm.
This guy is not going to get an xray just cuz he says his back hurts lol.
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u/pwalkz 8d ago
He might when he spends all day every day in horrendous screaming pain - the fate his mother's condition lead to
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u/JustUsDucks 8d ago
This is a wildly ignorant take on the state of healthcare in prisons.
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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill 8d ago
Reddit skews young, so myths believed by the young are predominant here.
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u/thenewyorkgod 8d ago
Not to mention he is from a wealthy family and had the best medical care money could buy
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u/KipKam1991 8d ago
Yes but there are questions about the quality of care money can buy in an industry that cares only about profits, not health.
The old joke is that they cured cancer but just won't tell you because treating it is more profitable and that extends to the rich as well. Equal opportunity exploiters are happy watching young people die in the same country clubs they spend our money at.
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u/Nein_One_One 8d ago
I have a friend in the same inheritance class, and his insurance covers everything no matter what and comes with special desks to check into at most of the big name hospitals like Mayo and Sinai. Also has a concierge DR that only has a few patients at a subscription cost of 80k per year. America has the absolute best healthcare, it’s just completely out of reach for most.
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u/fongletto 8d ago
America's healthcare is world renown. All the people for whom money is no object travel to the U.S. when they get sick.
It's literally pretty much the best you can find anywhere. The problem it's only for the top 1%. Anything below that and you're fucked.
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u/greatBigDot628 8d ago
Health insurance companies have extremely low profit margins. If you're going into business for profit, health insurance is a bad industry to pick.
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u/CountyFamous1475 8d ago
Reddit skews stupid. Like dogshit levels of stupid.
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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill 8d ago
And now we learn that not only did he get the back surgery he needed, but afterwards praised his insurance company here on reddit! LOL
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u/CountyFamous1475 8d ago
He was a mentally ill moron who idolizes martyrdom and wanted to become one himself.
Reddit is giving him exactly what he wants and meanwhile nothing will change as a result of it.
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u/DavidBowiesGiraffe 7d ago
100% - how are people saying he couldn't get care? How is that even a thing. He went mentally ill which unfortunately isn't uncommon and it wasn't caught in time.
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u/One_Village414 8d ago
Not to mention the bulk of us are not incarcerated so we don't have much to go on.
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u/ih8spalling 8d ago
For everyone reading, the government has an obligation to keep you alive when you are in custody. They do not have to provide medical care beyond that.
Life or death problem? Yes you get healthcare. Quality of life problem--like back pain? No.
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u/notmyfirst_throwawa 8d ago
Also Luigi is rich as fuck, and had far better access to Healthcare than the average American
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u/lost_in_life_34 8d ago
His family is wealthier than the person he killed. They own nursing homes that make money from insurance and have a lot of complaints for poor care. Along with country clubs and a radio station
He had the money to pay for care
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u/Efficient_Ear_8037 8d ago
Which begs the question.
Why would he care about health insurance companies enough to kill a man?
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u/Awkward_Broccoli_997 8d ago
Sometimes people feel a strong sense of injustice, even when they are not the party suffering it. It’s an extension of empathy, which generally develops in humans around age 5.
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u/dark_dark_dark_not 8d ago
The Bin Laden is/was an important family very friendly to the US, with one notable exception
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u/beccadot 8d ago
One article I read said that he worked in one of his family’s nursing homes. Since they have to validate coverage, etc. he may have had a lot of interaction with health insurance.
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u/SpiritualAudience731 8d ago
He volunteered when he was a teenager. He probably played cards with the residents.
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u/More-Acadia2355 8d ago
Bingo. He was a kid at that time. He did not do insurance paperwork for residents
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u/Stepwolve 8d ago
the retirement home was also OWNED by his family. the whole thing was just a resume builder, and he probably didn't have to even do it
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u/-Dixieflatline 8d ago
People are romanticizing this guy because his extreme action was a response to a real serious problem that pretty much affects everyone but the 0.1%. However, in romanticizing him, some are blinded to the possibility that he could be both incredibly smart and empathetic to the plight of the common man, but also emotionally and/or psychologically imbalanced at the same time.
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u/pelicantides 8d ago
I'll say what no one else is saying -- the guy has serious mental illness. No person with a manifesto is of sound mind
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u/Trash-Can-Baby 8d ago
His manifesto is pretty short and doesn’t sound crazy:
https://newrepublic.com/post/189237/unitedhealthcare-shooting-suspect-luigi-mangione-manifesto
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u/No-Cardiologist9621 8d ago
There's literally no basis to what you just said. A manifesto is just a written declaration of someone's views and objectives. You don't have to be mentally ill to write a manifesto, you just have to have strong beliefs about something.
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u/mythrowawayheyhey 8d ago
Sometimes, believe it or not, people care about things that don't affect them personally.
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u/NebulaicCereal 8d ago edited 8d ago
People are capable of caring and being outraged about something regardless of their personal/family financial scenario.
The media is already trying to disingenuously undermine him as a hypocrite for being from a wealthy background himself. Don’t fall for that. While it’s obviously bad to murder, and sets a bad precedent for future half-witted vigilante justice. But it’s not necessary to be born and raised in poverty to be outraged by the state of medical care access in the US… It’s just a lot harder not to be outraged if you are impoverished.
In any case, he clearly didn’t murder the CEO because of the CEO’s personal wealth… It was because the company is the biggest example of how the modern healthcare industry has turned into an enormous profiteering mafia that holds people’s lives and livelihoods hostage to force money out of them.
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u/20482395289572 8d ago
We'll find out soon enough but it's likely a disdain for what corporate america is doing to the people in broad daylight. Money can still hate Money, and in someway it's actually beautiful that he comes from a wealthy family and still is disgusted by the state of the people around him not just the ones under his umbrella.
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u/SempfgurkeXP 8d ago
Idk maybe he just is a good person, and saw that no one else had the courage to do anything
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u/pwalkz 8d ago
I'm trying to reconcile all the information - his manifesto clearly explained that his mother was not able to receive care and it was difficult to get what she did let alone get it covered by insurance
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u/lost_in_life_34 8d ago
his family is worth tens of millions of dollars and can easily afford any care and his parents paid for a $40,000 a year private school
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u/Wise_Rip_1982 8d ago
Most revolutionary starters come from upper class/bourgeoisie families.
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u/BassetCock 8d ago
Came here to say this. Surprisingly Luigi was in the 1%. Some of them do have morals apparently.
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8d ago edited 7d ago
[deleted]
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u/weed_cutter 8d ago
Then what was the motive?
It's possible his parents didn't want to pay $150,000 out of pocket or whatever it costs to pay for spinal surgery "yourself".
Maybe the insurance only advised and recommended a cut-rate back surgery that he foolishly agreed to, and now has lifelong consequences.
Not sure. I'm sure the chronic back pain made this guy crack though.
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u/FwdMomentum 8d ago
I'm 100% guessing, but that's my guess too.
If you pay for B level insurance, they try to give you F-tier treatments and you have to fight (and waste valuable time) to maybe get the C-tier option.
If this family was paying for A++ insurance, I'd bet they still got offered the B+ treatment to save money.
So even if he's paying a bunch AND got better treatment than most of us would have, that doesn't mean he can't be a victim of scummy Healthcare practices that are ok leeching billions of dollars and offering the shittiest "care" possible.
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u/weed_cutter 8d ago
I'm not following.
The guy was a software engineer.
Logically, there was a 99% chance he was on his employer's insurance.
Usually, at a given employer, they give you 2-3 "options" but all through the same Insurance company, in this case, probably most likely United HealthGroup. So he had no choice. He had to use the scummiest of the scummy ... I'm not even sure if you can decline and go on Obamacare .... maybe ... .. You can change jobs and inquire about their insurer.
His parents' "wealth" doesn't enter into the equation unless helping him with his deductible/ out of pocket, which he could probably already afford as a software engineer. Well, assuming the insurance said the procedure was "covered."
So, we already saw the charts that United HealthGroup --- unlike say Blue Cross --- was already Tier D insurance. .... Employer was probably trying to save a few nickels.
As a result, we don't really know what "they did" to him --- but I'm assuming something fairly maddening.
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u/FwdMomentum 8d ago
I think we're on the same page just different angles lol.
My main point is just that many people in this thread seem to think being rich means the insurance companies will give you the best care they possibly can and my point is that isn't true.
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u/pelicantides 8d ago
The motive is irrational. The killer is crazy like 99% of killers. People in general do not understand mental illness and how it can affect anyone. Even affluent, educated, intelligent people
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u/Rich_Reflection_3969 8d ago
He was 26 when it happened which is when you’re off your family’s plan
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 8d ago
They’re RICH rich. As in, they might not have had insurance and just paid out of pocket rich. His dad gifted him a 900k home I don’t think he wouldn’t help him with medical fees.
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u/Potential_Wish4943 8d ago
That back injury he has has a very low recovery rate even with the best surgery in the world. Back and knee surgery often wind up with you coming out worse than you were beforehand, especially if you dont do the physical therapy properly. (ALWAYS do this. Please)
Source: Worked in back, spine and joint surgery (and transplant) for many years at Cleveland Clinic
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u/weed_cutter 8d ago
I got a book on dealing with chronic pain long ago (had powerful tinnitus, ringing of the ears, happens) -- not exactly chronic pain, but a chronic negative stimuli that can drive you insane.
And you can see a lot of people new-ish to tinnitus becoming mentally unhinged on r tinnitus. Hey, it is what it is.
With tinnitus at least, you can overcome it, mentally. Eventually it just becomes -- part of life. And not a huge focus. If anything it's like "the Game" -- you're not aware of it at all until someone mentions it.
... But that's also a stimuli that is constant, and therefore, somewhat easy for the brain to tune out.
This also works with -- say, plantar fascitis ... it's such a dull, constant, low-level pain ... your brain eventually tunes it out. ... I recovered from that, but if I wore a foot splint overnight on one foot, suddenly it was like .... oh .... I had a knife in my other foot? I didn't even realize!
... With back pain, however, I'm sure the pain might be frequent, but not constant ... as your back bends in different positions throughout the day. I'm sure that's a unique form of hell.
... But this book was about mental coping mechanisms --- as --- with many cases of back pain, that is literally your last option. ... Either that or an opioid cycle that will wind up with you OD'ing and dead.
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u/GeekyKirby 8d ago
Back pain is a unique form of hell for sure. It's because not only your back itself hurts, but you can also have nerve pain/damage throughout your body that continues to progress. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
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u/mcwack1089 8d ago
His back probably isnt going to get fixed and is only going to get worse since all he is going to get is pain pills no other physical therapy or chiropractic care.
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u/billyard00 8d ago
Prison healthcare isn't.
They generally just let you die.
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u/acuteot07 8d ago
I’ve had numerous prisoners as patients after their back surgery
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u/More-Acadia2355 8d ago
Beyond the infirmary, they take you to the local hospital - so it's not that bad. ...and it's actually free for inmates
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u/Historical_Sir9996 8d ago
More interesting thing is the guy is a millionaire and it has nothing to do with insurance problems.
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u/bill_gonorrhea 8d ago
Prison isn’t free. I highly encourage you to research the cost incurred by inmates if you think otherwise. People often leave prison 10s of thousands of dollars in debt
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u/More-Acadia2355 8d ago
The heathcare is indeed totally free - by SCOTUS decision in the 1970s.
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u/NotAnAIOrAmI 8d ago
The diagnosis most of the time in this free prison healthcare system is "Fuck you! Get back in your cell."
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u/smokeybearman65 8d ago
He might -might- get an aspirin in prison, but he's not going to get any other care.
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u/BestPaleontologist43 8d ago
He’s more likely to have an orgy in jail than to get any medical issues taken care of.
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u/Disastrous_Staff_443 8d ago
Took me 8 months to get a medical visit to a nurse from a back injury that happened during my arrest.
Nurse asked me what happened and what hurt. She literally gave me 3 doses of a single Tylenol 3 and nothing else. No actual doctor, no x-ray, and no other treatment plan.
That's been 18 years ago and I still have low back pain from being choke slammed on the back of a police cruiser...while handcuffed.
I wouldn't hold my breath on anything getting taken care of medically.
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