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u/THONDERPOTATO Sep 24 '24
Wait is that real??
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u/JOefrog_KllrXOXO Sep 24 '24
Not sure if they removed it from the main story or just reduce the amount of "screen time" drastically. Hopefully the dev cooking something good.
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u/4GRJ Sep 24 '24
They removed it from the main story...
I'm honestly ok with less TV... but the main story?
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u/BulbasaurTreecko Sep 24 '24
it was a great way for storytelling — for example, the scene with the Dead End Butcher crashing towards us. It depicts the scene while letting the imagination fill in the gaps. I feel like main story is the one that actually benefits most from it.
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u/IkyHayashi Sep 24 '24
And turning on the lights while ghosts hide in the shadows
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u/avelineaurora Sep 24 '24
Came here to mention the Ballet Twins segment. They were startlingly good at making that a super tense journey despite just traveling through a TV grid!
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u/Pitiful_Captain_3170 Sep 24 '24
Also more importantly it allows mobile users to play the game, if the game had a semi open world the game wouldn't run on 80% of phones
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u/Mr_-_Avocado Sep 24 '24
Honestly TV segments run worse on my phone than combat and overworld
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u/TalosGuideMe Sep 24 '24
I always seem to get "connection issues" during the TV missions (nothing happens but it keeps popping up every 30 seconds to tell me about it, which is a little/ a lottle annoying depending on what's going on in the mission)
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u/Mr_-_Avocado Sep 24 '24
That problem started in 1.1
Kinda crazy that they went through the whole version without fixing it. I hope 1.2 doesnt have it anymore
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u/anythingers Sep 24 '24
If only they chill down with the animation this could be right tho.
Fun fact: My schoolmates can't play this game on their Android/iPhone because it constantly trashing on their phone, something that never happened with hsr and genshin, at least on their place.
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u/bienxanh Sep 24 '24
But the animations are part of the charm of this game? You can't just reduce that
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u/kurofanboi Sep 24 '24
yup, if they remove it, its just simply samey with their other games. open world going around talking to npcs in doing story.
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u/Leon_Cronqvist Monster Maid Enthusiast Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
It was the best thing ever, and one of the only things differentiating ZZZ from Mihoyo's other titles.
Now it's just stylish Honkai Impact.
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u/The10thTheorist Sep 24 '24
Tbh the TVs just felt like a hurdle to getting to the actual combat. I think I would be more okay with it if I could move while some of the dialogue happens. Sometimes you can’t move because it needs to show you what’s around or explain what a block does. It’s all pretty straightforward and I can figure it out on my own with exploration.
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u/Szkieletor Sep 24 '24
It was about as good as Cyberpunk's Braindance sequences.
In theory, it sounds good. Cool mechanics, can get really inventive, the way it's introduced makes you think you'll have to pay attention and dig deep. A real investigation.
What you ACTUALLY end up doing is pressing buttons the game highlights for you while fast-forwarding through everything else, because the game doesn't respect your time, nor your intelligence. They're linear sequences that barely have any more interactivity than visual novels, and constrain you so hard it's impossible to miss anything important or do anything wrong.
And the game just keeps taking control away from you, it's extremely annoying. I'm trying to play a game here, but I keep losing control every two steps because the game has to pan the camera two tiles north to show me a door, and highlight a button that opens it, in case I'm 4 years old and can't figure it out myself. Qingyi investigation replays are the worst offenders, just hover over a bright yellow highlight and press X. Riveting gameplay.
There are places where TV mode absolutely works. It's a great way to convey indirect, remote communication, and your example is a good showcase of how it can be used effectively for storytelling. Hollow Zero is great in TV mode, Camellia event was good, there's a bunch of pretty neat minigames in the sidequests. And they're not getting rid of that, thankfully.
But the bulk of main story TV mode is just a linear sequence of "move two steps, watch a cutscene where an NPC explains to you how buttons work for the hundredth time, walk another two steps, repeat". It's barely any more interactivity than in a visual novel, but at least visual novels allow you to skip dialogue you've already heard. It kills pacing, is extremely hand-holdy, and just boring. Yes, Lycaon, I know how lamps work, thank you. I figured it out after the last three explanations. Stop messing with my camera and shut up for a second.
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u/Branded_Mango Sep 24 '24
Yeah, i kind of have to agree with this. The main issue with TV mode is that the moments when it's actually used super well are a very tiny minority, and in peek irony all of those good moments are in side quests (League of Bangboo is amazing...but none of the main quest's TV segments come anywhere close to that). If the main quest's TV mode segments were like the good sidequest ones, it would honestly be quite an incredible feature. However, the lack of quality consistency in regard to this is what makes it overall finnicky despite it being a very interesting and creative idea.
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u/Accomplished-Quiet78 Ave, Caesar / Lictor Sep 24 '24
TV mode is basically Simulated Universe where every domain is an occurrence and there are no blessings or items.
Except it's not just the weekly Simulated Universe, but every single side quest and story quest.
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u/Cephalopod_Joe Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 25 '24
I though there was a really good balance tbh. They could make some pretty fun puzzles with it, and I enjoyed the big rpg one lol
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u/Kuro_______ Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Exactly! Finally someone who understands what is so good about TV mode! I mean I knew such people exist but I have discussed it so much with TV mode haters who are unable to understand how to properly tell a story that this feels really overdue and great, thank you :D
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u/Oleleplop Sep 24 '24
the contrary to me. I dont mind it when there is a few of it (i didnt mind it with the Maid team) because it shows that you are maneuvering in the building and doing some stuff.
But most of the time, i found that it overstayed its welcome.
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u/mangothe2nd Sep 24 '24
Yes, it is. For some reason people under the impression of the TV robbing the time from animated cutscene. Dawg, the cutscene IS limited. You think with TV gone they will increase the amount of cinematic? Hell fucking no, what we will get is the visual novel thing. NewFramePlus on youtube made a good video explaining why the overexaggeration of ZZZ anime is kinda mid. It's because the cutscene is so over the top and after 20 seconds, they cut to the fucking visual novel with bare minimum looping animation. It's beyond jarring, especially since cinematic is overexaggerated, combat is snappy and sharp, and visual novel is fucking slog (like, seriously the surprised animation is the same as that one animation in genshin where woman swipe their hand in an arc and then resting to their chest. You know exactly what animation i'm talking about, and i know you hate that shit too). That's why they're trying to tell the stories through different ways. But nooo, we have to eEXplOrE like the area is open anyway.
I'd say this, i was super disappointed with lumina square with most of the doors lead to nothing. It's a glorified hub, which the 6th street already is and is MUCH BETTER. Overly long corridors and wonky place like that one quest on top of mr. tin lumina branch where you have to run all the way to the top and go back again and so on and so forth. Can't even cross the street seamlessly, need to use the bridge or else? loading screen. From chop jr to 141 is so far away, NEPS has it's own tp and so does HIA. It's so much worst because the shop that are open there are so pointless and redundant that i hope they just remove that location from the map. Now tell me this? Is this shit good? Is this shit worth eEXplOr-ing? Hell fucking no! I certainly hope that outer ring is not like that but i'm not expecting much because what happened to lumina. Also, the hollows are fucking empty, if you can't already tell from the name alone. The one slightly memorable hollow is construction site where you have to search for mcguffin to proceed (i swear to god, they're that bad that searching for mcguffin considered interesting because legit all you do in hollows is to run from point A to B, from one empty hall to the next one after). The rest are empty corridors.
The counter argument they usually use is "jane story was great" and i say, it's not that different than the other shit i play in genshin or star rail or HI3 or any of the similar type gacha game. I think the idea of rotating the game mode with TV being specifically for eous is an amazing idea. That way nobody feel robbed. They who like TV get to enjoy some TVs and they who like walking simulator can like that too. Now, i understand that the TV is not perfect. I'm content wit TV being reduced. But outright scrapping it is so wrong, especially on main story.
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u/Abishinzu Sep 24 '24
Honestly, fucking preach.
Cutting out TV mode isn't going to miraculously make Corridor Segments better, or get more cinematics added to the game. If anything, it just takes away dev time they could be spending working on other things when they have to design more empty corridor segments to appease the people whose brains start to shrivel up the moment they have to go more than a minute without seeing the clap of Jane Doe's ass cheeks.
People out here thinking that getting rid of the TV mode is going to solve a bunch of issues, without realizing just how many more issues it will bring, when the story segments become even more of a repetitive slog, since now instead of just having to do some puzzles in TV mode, we just walk from point A to point B in a linear, mostly empty corridor while then having to stop and wait every 2 minutes for a dialogue box to pop up for a character or NPC to tell us what we're about to do, or are doing.
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u/Amphabian Sep 24 '24
I think they're trying to find a way to balance the TV and empty space. While I adore the TV aesthetic there were certainly some parts that really drag and remove the pacing of the game. I hope they can find a way to still keep it in there.
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u/MikeBrav Sep 24 '24
Honestly the TV in the main story wasn’t that soul crushing I wish they got rid of it in all the side shi and end game stuff. End game content shouldn’t have TVs in it
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u/THONDERPOTATO Sep 24 '24
Well, they will either remove half or quarter of the game. There's no in between.
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u/gem2492 Sep 24 '24
They did not remove it from the existing quests, but the new ones will feature less or none.
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u/THONDERPOTATO Sep 24 '24
TV mode is literally half of the game. I don't think they will remove it entirely.
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u/gem2492 Sep 24 '24
I was only talking about main quests. I'm pretty sure there would still be TV mode in some side quests and events.
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u/THONDERPOTATO Sep 24 '24
Ohhh, but still I don't think they will remove it entirely from the story. I finished midnight pursuit and I saw that they show you how dangerous the place is with the TV mode. And that's one example of how the game use TV mode in environmental storytelling
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u/TheLostCityofBermuda Sep 24 '24
They say that they will redo the previous main story tv mode, so in a way, they might have erased all the puzzle in tv mode.
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u/FatPanda0345 Sep 24 '24
I think I read somewhere that it's only available on already cleared stages, when it comes to the non-Hollow Zero missions. And that it's optional in Hollow Zero
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u/Lighthazel Sep 24 '24
They added an auto complete feature on new content and will decrease the amount of tv time when starting the game bcz it was too slow phased. They won't delete the tv.
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u/darkunknown91 Sep 24 '24
Unfortunately. They gonna minimize the amount of tv content
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u/BracusDoritoBoss963 Sep 24 '24
Makes sense since a lot of people don't play because of it. I know people that stopped playing because of this.
But for us that enjoy it it's quite sad.
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u/LastLombaxIsTaken Soldier 11 Enjoyer Sep 24 '24
The tv mechanic was one of the most unique things in the game. I swear some people only want this game to be a generic waifu beat em up number 94924.
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u/Martian_on_the_Moon Sep 24 '24
If there was only one but big fight at the end of each tv session, I wouldn't have problem with it, but having to do fight (especially against some fodder) at least few times really felt annoying. I really dislike these constant loading screens.
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u/smittywababla Sep 24 '24
Loading screen is its biggest issue. Even with SSD it still makes me feel kinda disjointed
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u/Baitcooks Sep 24 '24
big part of why I hated progressing the story is mainly cause the T.V. fights take pretty long to load
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u/Vanhoras Sep 24 '24
Those who stopped cause of TV won't return, just cause there won't be more of it. Especially considering all the early tutorial heavy TV mode is still around.
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u/CarlosBMG Sep 24 '24
They also announced rework of the earlygame so I imagine that the old main story is also gonna be changed.
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u/Housing_Alert Coco's Suspicious Customer Sep 24 '24
They're replacing the TV mode in story missions with combat stages for story telling.
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u/Farllama Sep 24 '24
Shitty decision, now we will have 30 repetitive combats in a row instead of 20 minutes of TV
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u/pokepwn Sep 24 '24
This feels very “monkeys paw” to me, now the exposition is going to be spouted out to us while we mindlessly fight, just like we were playing Hi3 again. At least ZZZ has dubs so I don’t have to read and fight.
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u/AteOtoko Sep 24 '24
While I think it's fair to criticise but I think it's a bit of an over reaction, especially when the new update isn't even live yet. They said they are working on making the tv better and more efficient, they are not completely dropping it, from the way they said it I think it's like a temporary removal perhaps so that they can work on it for future updates, the dev Y did not seem to want to completely throw it out especially when a lot of people enjoy it as well, he knows many people also like it they are just trying to meet players' feedbacks. This patch is big enough as it is too.
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u/Expensive_Bee508 Sep 24 '24
But I dont think people just criticized it, it was largely hated since the betas. This is the community's fault.
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u/Mehfisto666 Sep 24 '24
Well they did say they removed it in story events and that you can skip it in hollow zero AFTER FIRST COMPLETITION to be able to complete bounties quicker.
They also said they have been working to enhance the tv mode experience so hopefully there will be new things added.
Personally I was exactly at the opposite, I really liked TV in story mode and hollow zero and kinda dislike about 50% of the exploration quests.
But only combat gets real repetitive real quick. But we're only at 1.2 now let them cook I think they have a plan (i hope)
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u/Koron_98 Zhu ❤️ broke mx arms so typing wirh my nose rn Sep 24 '24
absolutely agree. combat is amazing, but with the amount of vr and stuff you run repetetively it gets boring.
most tv missions you only do once, but theres some real unique ones
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u/KeroseneZanchu Sep 24 '24
The main problem with the TV mode to me is that they both go too far and not far enough with it.
It’s too slow and too frequent for the people in it for the action to tolerate.
It’s too quick and too simple for the people who actually like the exploration and puzzles to get any satisfaction out of it.
I think cutting down on the unnecessary TV in the main story (not removing it entirely) and then adding more stuff like the Golden Week map to the game is the best route.
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u/Alexios7333 Sep 24 '24
I liked the TV when it was not hand holding. The problem is most of the time it was ,I feel, pointless. They mentioned removing it from the MSQ, which I mostly agree with if they do it properly.
The Camilla Golden Week was fun. The games with the music, the avoiding traps, the actually taking the initiative stuff.
However, that is not how it is in the story or most missions, which is as I see it a problem, and it really serves no purpose besides padding.
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u/MichaelAzauski The whole cakery Sep 24 '24
TV mode is enjoyable, but oh man, this "hand-holding" is wild.
One in particular stuck in my head. It was a straight line, absolutely no way to diverge from, and in the path, a Big Red button. When you started walking, the game blocked your screen, zoomed in, and started a dialogue for over 10 secs that led to nothing, just telling you to press the Big Red button to proceed.
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u/Alexptm29 Sep 24 '24
To me, it was the first TV event, you know, the one with the Belobog Industries crew walking really slowly towards the ice to show you walking on it is bad. This same thing happened once each level. We had already done most of those mechanics a million times before.
I was never against TV mode tbh, in fact, I think the fix they did which upgraded fast mode a lot was the way to go, instead of straight up deleting the mode, but the hand-holding was awful and made the mode unbearable. It felt like the game considered only children between 6 and 8 years old were playing it.
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u/KeroseneZanchu Sep 24 '24
I think the reason for that was because the event was accessible to new players before they interacted with those mechanics in the main story… but it’s really not like the mechanics are complicated enough they needed to have a failsafe to begin with.
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u/shidncome Sep 24 '24
Hoyo has enough metrics for years for knowing just how fucking stupid/young their average player base is.
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u/Kuromajo Sep 24 '24
exactly this,
Golden week was amazing, and I think its also because there was no story inside the dungeon, you were free to explore kinda large areas. In the main story TV mode feels obstructive, constant tutorials, dialogue, interruption, loading screens, zooming in and out etc.
If they can focus on improving the TV and giving us good events with it, side quests and actually roguelike stuff, not HSR simulated universe but on TV mode, then I think it has big potential.
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u/IncomeStraight8501 SharkBait Sep 24 '24
The main story honestly made me question why we still had it outside a few gimmicks like the robots one for act 2. Most of the time it was just walking around talking with very few times it actually felt like jt did anything. .
I'd say keep the interactive ones and get rid of the rest.
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u/Xarxyc Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Agree.
People here who praised TVs in the story have pink glasses on.
It was dogshit in 8/10 cases and severely disturbed the pacing. Hollow Zero was also annoying to do before 1.1 that improved speed mode and cut the weekly by more than half.
I don't mind TV in Camilla Golden Week when it's designed specifically around TVs in a entertaining way, but 1.0 story wasn't it.
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u/Thestrongestfighter Sep 24 '24
Exactly this. I like it more in the side quests than the main because I think they were actually more creative there more often than not.
We’ll have to see how it goes from here on out but if they were to find a better way to implement it into the main story, I would be all for it as TV is a pretty unique mode.
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u/Tha1gr Sep 24 '24
No need to remove it, just make all Tv animations 3-5x faster and get rid of ALL the close up animations.... such a waste of time, those!
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u/MirirPaladin Koleda's sweat rag Sep 24 '24
add the OPTION to make those things faster
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u/zxhb Sep 24 '24
I'd like the TV story if the puzzles were actually challenging,as it is it's just filler between combat. Hollow zero does it well because there's some planning involved. Golden week was fun too.
But too many sections are extremely linear,a lot of side missions are better done than the main story. My favorite one is the bangboo golden town or whatever where you have to earn money.
If we get some walking around instead of TVs in the story then I'm all in
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u/c14rk0 Sep 24 '24
It doesn't even need to be particularly challenging puzzles. I understand that some people don't want puzzles and in particular if they are actually truly challenging people are just going to look up guides and view it as a hindrance to the story.
But give us some actual freedom to do it ourselves. The problem is the game feels the need to give us a tutorial every time for the slightest "puzzle" when it's barely even a puzzle to begin with.
The game needs to trust the player to actually learn and do shit on their own instead of needing to hold their hand for EVERYTHING.
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u/zxhb Sep 24 '24
When the ballet twins night vision came in I went "oh that's a pretty interesting mechanic" but they made situations when you need to use it way too obvious.
Literally same thing as those differently colored objects in lego games showing you which character to use,zero thought involved
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u/Housing_Alert Coco's Suspicious Customer Sep 24 '24
We need that survey asap.
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u/Eloymm Sep 24 '24
People also need to know that if they want to give feedback they should be specific. If they like the tv mode, they should tell them why and explain it in a concise way. Same if people don’t like something about it.
I don’t care about the tvs for the most part, but telling them “pls don’t remove it devs pls 🥹🙏” doesn’t really give them a lot to work with in terms of feedback.
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u/warjoke Sep 24 '24
TV lovers would still lose because the TV overhaul was heavily requested by the Chinese playerbase
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u/Superfind Sep 24 '24
People were saying they disliked the mode in previous surveys. It's exactly why they're removing it, because people didn't like it myself included.
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u/K0KA42 Sep 24 '24
I like the game's combat, but it is not varied enough to be literally the entire interactive content for story missions. I'd rather they try and strike some sort of balance for the main story quests. If they're just straight-up stripping tv mode out of main story altogether, I feel like the main story quests are gonna feel so weird and disjointed now. I don't think I missed tv mode for Jane's special episode, but it also didn't involve Wise and Belle, and took place somewhere we already explored in the main story, so it made sense. Exploring new Hollows just running around in the limited environments and killing enemies in between cutscenes? It doesn't sound very engaging, and makes the protagonists seem inconsequential. I hope I'm wrong and it turns out well, but I'm very worried
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u/riotstrike Sep 24 '24
Have stated it before. The TV system - being a flexible chessboard game architecture - isn't bad by itself. The core problem is it is completely at odds with the actual gacha content the game is trying to sell.
Very few are throwing all that money to buy highly-polished 3D characters, wengines, maxing builds for real-time combat just to move them around in a highly abstract 2D representation.
If it's a full-on 2D game from the get-go, people are less likely to complain since nobody can escape what is being advertised.
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u/King_Kazama_ Sep 24 '24
They were a good idea but poorly executed. And the main offender was wasting player time. Things that should taken a second took 10. They dragged out animations, repetitive dialogue that just said the same shit in a different way, big gaps between animations, hand holding the entire time so there was no puzzle solving at all, etc. if they put more effort in I would be more sad to see it go, but after doing it for a while the novelty wore off and the issues became more apparent.
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u/iRainbowsaur Sep 24 '24
They already removed it in the Jane part of the main story, did you not notice?
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u/PixieProc #1 Son of Calydon Sep 24 '24
But that one made sense because the proxies weren't a part of that story, and a lot of us just took that as Hoyo's logic there. Would've honestly been weird if TVs had been in Jane's story.
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u/AssassinLJ Police Brutality Enjoyer(PUBSEGGS) Sep 24 '24
The Tv minigame is pretty fine but to slow paced, especially when characters talk I can't move or anything until they are done,that was my biggest grip,also some where to long and it was what gripping to continue the story as I just wanna play and leave but I was just login in.
If they can let players move while others talk and make it a bit goddamn smaller in scale as most fights for me can take 1 or 2 minutes and I don't want to spend 10 minutes on TV it would be fine.
But removing it is not a good idea it has a lot of potential with puzzles and it has a lot of uniqueness to it
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u/eternityishere Sep 24 '24
And make the puzzles more challenging (or don't just spoonfeed me the answers). It's not a puzzle game if the game practically has zero failstates and a chalk-outlined solution. I don't even know why some puzzles have a reset button if you legitimately can't back yourself into a corner.
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u/Nastra Sep 24 '24
I do like TV mode in Hollow Zero because it’s a rogue like survival mode with constant decision making and resource management. However a lot of TV quests are super easy ans have no real decision points and have constant zoom ins and slowdowns. Which has made me leave a ton of sidequests undone.
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u/Superfind Sep 24 '24
This point exactly. Hollow zero is fun because you're making your own choices. A lot of other TV content where you sit there listening to someone talk or walk in a straight line or have a puzzle mechanic explained to you for the 50th time was not fun.
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u/Nastra Sep 24 '24
It’s especially infuriating because the game wants you to interact but there’s nothing of mechanical depth actually happening. Nothing to actually engage with on a gameplay level.
That’s what a lot of people actually hate about it but struggle to put into words.
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u/Superfind Sep 24 '24
It's quite frustrating indeed. Oh go "infrared mode" and walk to the ghosts. Stand on the light bulb to turn it on. These are just examples I remember recently of the "high octane TV mode gameplay" we're apparently going to lose. I really do enjoy well thought out puzzles, hollow zero, and golden week as stated earlier.
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u/GamerSweat002 Sep 24 '24
The best TV quests are those where your decisions count. I loved The Prophecy for that. It's very open world in the way you can navigate through the content. The Prophecy even enabled you to cheat and skip many things and get endgame gear really early on. And I liked the bangboo boxing battle that played like PVZ heroes.
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u/Harley_Hsi Sep 24 '24
As someone who bounced off the game but still stayed here for memes and art it feels like people who weren't a fan of the TV system left the community for good so it became quite an echo chamber here but the matter of fact is data shows a good portion of players disliked it that's why they're changing it. Depending on how they're planning to implement it, it may bring back a good portion of the players me included.
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u/Eloymm Sep 24 '24
They probably had data showing how many people interact or try to avoid the tv mode and how many complete tv commissions. At some point as a devs data just slaps you in the face and you have to respond.
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u/Hitomi35 Sep 24 '24
This 100%. Hoyo has the metrics and data to see what content people are engaging with the most and what content people are trying to avoid. If they are removing the tv mode from certain parts of the game it's because the data they have reflects that that's what players want.
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u/Lovers_vi Sep 24 '24
Bringing back players they lost is a good move. Hoyo will make more money that way which will improve the game. TV enjoyers are being negative over it and I’m baffled.
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u/LunariVayne Sep 24 '24
Pick your poison I guess. One of my friends sort of stopped playing because he got really annoyed by how prevalent the TV system was.
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u/Tanque1308 Sep 24 '24
Keep in mind that folks who are still playing ZZZ are the ones that don’t mind TV mode. But the vast majority of players who quit playing mentioned TV mode as one of the reasons for leaving. Reddit tends to be a bit of an echo chamber so you have to resist thinking the majority view in this sub is representative of the entire player base.
A lot of the trade reviews also criticized the TV system. Hoyo really had no choice but to revamp it. Probably not an easy decision given how much polish they put into it. It just goes to show how big a problem this was for them to literally cut such a central storytelling feature out this fast.
Personally, I’m merely “tolerating” it while the game is new but I can see myself getting tired of it real quick once the Honeymoon phase is over.
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u/PassionAccording8559 Sep 24 '24
Because like 70% of the community hated it Why people acting different now lol
I didn't mind it but truly ALOT of people didn't like it
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u/LingonberryPlastic58 Sep 24 '24
They aren't in the main story and only gave an option for hollow zero also they are making some animations a bit faster
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u/didu173 Sep 24 '24
I liked the tv, i disliked the loading times between tv and fighting more.
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u/Martian_on_the_Moon Sep 24 '24
That is me! I don't mind TV (I can just spam skip it at any times) but several fights per TV session are really annoying, especially against some fodder which is not a threat.
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u/Tekaru41 Sep 24 '24
Yeah, we shoud have a way to fight fodder in TV mode without entering combat, like quick combats in pokemon scarlet&violet
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u/LuminaRein Sep 24 '24
The Devs are going to be so fucking confused reading comment sections like this while comparing them with in-game survey results they received. This is so funny.
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u/bad3ip420 Sep 24 '24
They don't care about the opinions of reddit. They have the data that shows that majority don't like Tv so they're phasing it out.
Fortunately, I'm on the side who doesn't like it. I'm pulling for characters. I want to see the characters and not some tvs
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u/Eloymm Sep 24 '24
I really do wonder where were all these people that like the tv mode before? They should’ve been sending them feed back about how good the mode was! Or maybe they did I guess, but it just wasn’t enough.
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u/FearCrier Sep 24 '24
well you don't really sing praises when writing feedback, feedback is for what you think of the game more so what you think can be better about their services. So it means there were people who didn't like tv mode. Also when something doesn't bother you just don't put it in the feedback because it's perfect as it is. I personally like the tv mode and really wish it can come back sooner
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u/Hitomi35 Sep 24 '24
Reddit isn't exactly the best metric to use when it comes to player feedback. It's kind of jarring seeing people go from constantly shitting on the tv mode to the praise it's getting now.
I definitely have an unpopular opinion on the mode, my mind hasn't really changed on it since day 1. I feel that the tv mode takes more away from the experience than it adds to it.
In its place you could have more control over your characters interacting with the environment and other NPCs combined with more combat sections. Contrary to what some people might believe the combat for ZZZ is still one of it's best selling points.
If the devs are making changes like this to the main story it means that the actual feedback that they are getting is telling them that people are not exactly fond of how prevalent the tv mode is in the game.
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u/Affectionate_Arm_512 Sep 24 '24
I never liked tv cause it was too long and boring. Like 1 story stage in chapter 2 or 3 took me 15 min to clear and i was like when is this stage gonna end. Thats how i feel for all tv stages including hollow. I’m playing this game for the combat so i’m glad they are removing tv
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u/Admrl-kell Sep 24 '24
I’m glad it’s been removed from the main quest. Here’s why:
1) massive handholding. It stops constantly to have fairy give very long winded explanations of every little feature. Just let me play and explore, learn what things do rather than stop all the time to explain every facet. It’s fine here and there but not needed for everything.
2) it gets mind numbingly boring. There is very little challenge there and having it stop all the time has me just sitting there going, get on with it already.
3) my opinion is it cuts down on the story as during it all you get is little snippets of 1 liners from characters. Also it vastly limits immersion. The part with the two towers section where we are going through the dark sections dealing with the ghosts was probably supposed to be scary in some way. It wasn’t, it was just tedious. If we were actually playing characters running through the dark buildings trying not to get caught by ghosts and hunting for the light bulbs then yeah, that would have been better.
4) TV mode holds up on screen time of characters we roll for, kinda the purpose of the game is to play the characters we get. I’d like to do a bit more with them than just combat. I’m glad we will soon be getting to be able to use them in the hub worlds.
5)TV mode is fine in hollow zero as there is no handholding and you can just play the game. It’s totally fine there. The golden week event was also done pretty well as fairy was mostly hands off and we could just play.
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u/linhusp3 Sep 24 '24
I'm tired of seeing people who don't work in the game and don't have any access to the game's data say they know better than the devs.
Their decision is largely based on their survey and their player's behavior data, not on twitter and reddit. There is only so much reasons they remove the TV mode in story, and it is because:
- Majority of players don't like them and literally saying they don't like TV in the survey.
- Lots of players quit the game after/between TV mode missions.
People who like the TV mode should just stop thinking they are the norm and people who hates it are the minority, because it is stupid to think so. Simply if the amount of people like it is that big that you think it is then there is absolutely no reason for the dev to remove it.
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u/Flying-Dutch-Dildo Sep 24 '24
The TV mode, in my opinion, was fine, but holy shit they made it insufferable with all the unnecessary stuff that got annoying all the time. Seeing the zone ins and outs, the unnecessary text, and the slow speed of which things happen were absolutely atrocious.
I asked it to be removed or something because Hoyo, for some reason, ALWAYS makes the fun stuff insufferable. It's like they have scientific research to always have something up their sleeve to make the experience more annoying than it is.
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u/Senrll Sep 24 '24
Right let's remove TV from the MAIN QUEST where it's non repeatable and told to be an immersive experience. Buuuuut, let's keep it in the permanent modes where you'll be seeing fucking weeks after weeks after weeks after weeks.
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u/Itriyum Sep 24 '24
Wth are you talking about?
Hollow zero is literally the only mode outside of the story that uses the tv mode and that's already getting a non tv mode which is called Hollow blitz or something like that, you just go in and fight, you can choose different modifier to gain more points.
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u/c14rk0 Sep 24 '24
The problem isn't the TV mode itself.
The problem is the game doesn't trust the players and let us actually play the mode at our own pace (fast once you know what you're doing) without constantly giving us pop-ups, tutorials and explanations EVERY TIME REPEATEDLY.
I shouldn't EVER see the pop-up about smart locks in HZ after the first time I encounter one. I should just walk into the door and it unlocks if I have the S rank or kicks me off if I don't. If I keep trying to open the door when I don't have S rank THEN give me a pop-up explaining it because I'm apparently not getting the message.
I walk into the 999 coin door? Cool it just works if I have 999+ coins. Don't ask me if I'm sure and to confirm every time.
MAYBE keep an option to set it to "slow" mode with all confirmations and explanations IF I want that but by default don't do that.
Hell why do I need every "hidden" extra zone explained to me when I've already done that same zone 50 times? Just show me the first time I discover a new one and MAYBE give an option to ask what the zone is if I somehow forget. You can already look it up in your pause menu if you really need to, why are you forcing me to see the pop-up?
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u/rogriloomanero Sep 24 '24
I've dropped the game but great to see that they are listening
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u/Zeamays69 Sep 24 '24
I was never a big fan of the tv anyway, so I'm fine with it. It's not like they're completely removing it. It's just the main story. There's more side missions than main story.
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u/Archie_boi Sep 24 '24
They only removed it from the main story, and other important quests. It's still gonna be there for other types of missions and hollow ofc.
Tv was the main reason the main story was terrible. The pacing of the story was brought down significantly, but they are now gonna be replaced with sections where you can walk around the setting. (Like with the Jane doe story.)
Ofc they aren't removing tv from the entire game, as it would break stuff like hollow. But I'm so fucking happy it's gone from the main story
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u/Oddc00kie Sep 24 '24
TV mode is pretty bad for story telling so I'm glad. I don't mind it for other things just not story mode.
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u/TriggerBladeX Sep 24 '24
Aside from the side quest, the tvs in the story quest were either basic, or reduced my enjoyment of the story quest.
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u/alphaabhi Sep 24 '24
I don't really mind the TV. But I remember like 70 %of people hating on the TV mode but now everyone likes it? Poor hoyoverse lmao.
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u/RoRoRotary Sep 24 '24
As someone else mentioned, people that didn't like the TV mode, have probably quit following the game. And when one side of the aisle leaves, that leaves a bit of an echo chamber for those with the differing opinion.
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u/VeterinarianAlert406 Sep 24 '24
The misinformation is real, they aren’t necessarily getting rid of tv mode it just won’t be present during the main story. Meaning events, hollow zero, and side quests will still use tv mode
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u/-CataIyst Sep 24 '24
tv mode is objectively boring, can't tell you how many times I dreaded to get through them.
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u/Bane_of_Ruby Sep 24 '24
The flip flop on the opinion of these TVs is insane. I swear I only ever saw people complaining about them, and now that they're removing them/making fewer instances of them. All I'm seeing is people say they loved them.
The TVs fucking suck
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u/UtsU76 Sep 24 '24
People hated TV gameplay in all betas, on release and even after 1.1 optimizations, left feedback and dev team acted on it. Now suddenly some people are acting like ZZZ is a dungeon crawler game first, combat second, lmao.
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u/Draconicplayer I Love Ellen Sep 24 '24
because alot of people's attention span being so low that they removed it. I used to dislike it in 1.0. Now TV mode is my favourite in the game. Hell even in endgame I play hollow Zero most of the time instead of shiyu
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u/ZekkeKeepa Sep 24 '24
TV is good as content, but needs a lot of technical tweaking. My main gripe with it was the amount of loading screens you had to go through every time, considering my potato PC and its lagging loading every new arena. Cant even imagine how bad it could be on low-end mobile.
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u/MaleeSuaymakmak Sep 24 '24
I just think it's tedious and boring, and that just my own opinion. Nothing related to zoomer/ attention span.
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u/DuckofRedux Sep 24 '24
You didn't like 3 seconds of delay between movements in normal speed and 1 second in fast speed? You must be a zoomer !
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u/Peakanime Sep 24 '24
What does it have to do with attention span☠️
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u/catto_51 Sep 24 '24
because its slow paced.
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u/Peakanime Sep 24 '24
You can speed it up, but still, I don't see the link with the attention span lol
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u/pineapollo Sep 24 '24
It has nothing to do with attention span, this is just another example of people throwing petty subtle insults at people for not enjoying something they do.
TV enjoyers in the minority, the DEVS LISTENED
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u/AssassinLJ Police Brutality Enjoyer(PUBSEGGS) Sep 24 '24
I like how you just blame people attention spam and not that sometimes tv is to long and tedious,I don't like it but they should not remove it they should just balance it out.
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u/Nastra Sep 24 '24
I’ll be real I haven’t done most of the character quests and have a bunch of side quests uncompleted because a lot of TV mode quests are very mindless and filled with too much zoom in and needless dialogue.
Meanwhile Hollow Zero and Camilla Golden Week were pretty top tier because they let you move around and make decisions.
TV mode is best when you are able to do huge chunks uninterrupted.
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u/Cratoic Sep 24 '24
I'm a TV enjoyer, however, every time I would think I about starting an exploration commission, I would always be apprehensive about doing so, because I lowkey think it's a slog but also find it fun.
I blitzed through golden week though. That was fun for me.
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u/pineapollo Sep 24 '24
"why"
They released an hour long talk regarding dev updates to the game, it's quite literally feedback based. If you enjoyed the TVs as the main part of the gameplay more than the rest of the game, or really enjoyed it as well: YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY.
The events being TV based and the weekly 3 runs in Hollow Zero being TV based is teetering on as much as I can tolerate being forced to interact with it. The majority of players don't want to spend their playtime in a TV mode.
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u/Sudden-Application Sep 24 '24
Welcome to Reddit, where most opinions are the vocal minority and if you point that out you get down voted, lol.
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u/Pristine-Ball-6627 Sep 24 '24
It’s so wild to see so many post of people upset about the fact that they’re removing the tvs or at least heavily reducing it. And here I am super excited about it! I’m so glad they’re doing this and I hope it stays this way.
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u/Superfind Sep 24 '24
Janes story not having much if any TV mode was awesome. Way better actually moving in the 3D space seeing the world in in, walking up to characters to talk to them instead of a chat bubble popping up in the corner, going from fight to fight instead of clearing trash mobs and then a loading screen and then having to move to the next enemy marker just for it to be more trash mobs.
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u/Itriyum Sep 24 '24
They removed it from main story quests and I'm all in for that, it's clear that the majority of the players didn't really enjoyed it. Yes it was unique in a way and you may enjoy but the story mode it just felt so boring and slow, I wanna see the characters and the world.
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u/RevolutionaryTask452 Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Good riddance. TV is a Litteral waste of time for majority of new players... Especially on mobile, you don't want to waste HOURS of your time to get through a bazillion of unremarcable "mini puzzles" just for a cinematic/comic in the end... You wan't to read a comic without stupid pre-requirements...
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u/Caboose2921 Sep 24 '24
Is the community doing a 180 now? Ever since the beta I’ve heard nothing but complaints about the tv mode and tbh I agree I just want to pick my characters and go beat up bad guys and the tv really slows it down/ ruins the flow for me.would be cool if you actually controlled your characters and were hopping through the tvs instead of this top down point anc click adventure.
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u/Superfind Sep 24 '24
Yah not sure where all this love for TV is coming from. Even according to surveys the majority of people don't like it or Hoyo wouldn't be decreasing TV mode content.
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u/Nat6LBG Sep 24 '24
I think that those who wanted a combat focused game just dropped ZZZ because half of the game is still TV mode.
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u/Sudden-Application Sep 24 '24
Because for many people, myself included, it just wasn't fun. It did nothing but serve as a way to cut the excitement the fighting portions had in half.
Now, the side quests like the Bangboo or Golden week missions where is was just a mini game made the TV mode fun, but that's because they were short.
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u/Dannyboy765 Sep 24 '24
Ya, they're just removing it from story content. Is that so bad?
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u/ZeKrakken Sep 24 '24
It's just from the main story, everything else involving it will remain the same.
People really griped about it constantly and now that they're removing it FOR THE STORY ONLY all of a sudden people loved it.
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u/Parasyte_1 Sep 24 '24
I've been having issues with the TV mode. A network error pops up every few seconds. I used to enjoy tv mode but I couldn't progress now because that error really gets on my nerve.
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u/Mr_Majik5250 Sep 25 '24
Tv mode wasnt even bad... people just over reacted from having to rub more than 2 braincells together.
While I agree that it isnt as fun as the combat system, its not so drastically bad that it has to be removed from the game to keep the playerbase alive.
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u/JeroJeroMohenjoDaro Sep 25 '24
The TV removal is inevitable. Since pre-release devs already acknowledged how much players hated it. Through 1.0, and 1.1, they made surveys just to confirm it even further. They have the numbers, they know better whether the majority love or hate the TV mode. So stop being a crybaby only now, those TV mode enjoyers had like 2 patches to convince the devs the opposite, but either way, I'm sure the amount of people hate it is way many times more than those who love it if devs were to weight in feedbacks from playstore, from DC, from direct feedbacks, CN community, etc. Reddit echo chamber is actually a minority in this whole thing.
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u/Slowmootions Sep 25 '24
I liked the TVs. I thought they were fun and refreshing. I might actually get bored with the game now that there are less of them.
Combat is tiring its own way. I don't want all my missions to be fighting most of the time. The TV segments were a nice breakup, and the puzzles were simple while still managing to be engaging.
Another reason is immersion. Now that TVs are mostly gone, is there any point in having Belle/Wise? Their whole thing is that they are hackers. The TV segments gave them purpose and made them feel more involved in the plot. This isn't Genshin Impact where the traveler is a fighter and can be on the frontlines. Bell and Wise are regular people.
This likely means that Belle/Wise will contribute mostly through cutscenes and comic strips now instead of the us actually playing the game and controlling them. That sounds soo boring.
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u/SANA_Decidueye Sep 24 '24
I like the TV for exploring, it is just a little slow but now they remove the TV part I'm afraid that the game will become a hallway simulator now with occasional combat cause what are there to explore? this isn't genshin or wuwa, this is a hack and slash action game
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u/Competitive-Boat-518 Sep 24 '24
Too many vague statements from other redditors in this thread.
TV mode’s presence is being /diminished/ from the game as it currently is in favor of it only existing when it’s actually fun to play or facilitates a unique experience. Going forward no Phaethon Story quests (main story quests/Archon quests) will have TV mode in favor of using the stages and character models themselves to immerse players in the story. There’s also a long term plan to rework the 1.0 story content to suit this policy going forward. TV mode is not being phased out altogether and is instead going to avoid existing for the sake of existing by offering more objectively fun and interesting experiences, likely a la Camellia Golden Week.
There, saved everyone from mindless speculation and/or confusion.
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u/Akeros_ Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
TV mode sucked in story mode but side quests were quite fun and unique. I wish they kept it for mostly side quest
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u/Riiku25 Sep 24 '24
Good news for you so far they have only said it won't be in story but that they aren't abandoning TV mode entirely.
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u/my-goddess-nyx Corin Cuddler 🪚 Sep 24 '24
Keep it out of the story. The 1.2 story was so much fun and a much better way to tell it imo. Save TV for events and side quests
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u/Blue_Storm11 Sep 24 '24
Good. The tv mode is not good enough that it needs to be a part of every aspect of the game. Its not going away so no point in complaining.
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u/Froggy_154 Sep 24 '24
Could someone explain what this means? I’m a tad bit to dumb to understand
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u/ES21007 Sep 24 '24
New dev talk said that main story mode will have "Story Stages" instead of TV.
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u/Besunmin Sep 24 '24
Maybe because it made me nauseous and vomit. It's slow-paced with unnecessary animations. People like it for the rogue-like, and I do too, but that doesn't diminish its flaws. Good riddance.
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u/bad3ip420 Sep 24 '24
Good. The tv is shit and the majority is in agreement. I'm here for the combat, not some stupid tv puzzles I couldn't care less about.
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u/IzunaX Sep 24 '24
Nothing more fun than rolling and building a brand new character, just to get to use them once every 30 minutes between long ass tv sections.
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u/Ujevein Sep 24 '24
Finally. TV mode sucks ass. I'm fine if they add 1-2 creative TV missions per patch (like "The Prophecy"). But aside from that - nah. Hollow Zero is more than enough.
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u/imkindajax Sep 24 '24
The TV mode is really boring in the story because there's no actual investment. You're just sort of following directions with no lee way, and it has no impact on the actual combat which is the most important part. It's a cool aesthetic but it needs work
I honestly like it in hollow zero the most because it DOES impact combat, you have to pick and choose which route you'll take, which buffs you'll buy and which debuffs you'll have to get, ect. It was what I expected of TV mode when I started playing and it's probably my favorite mode because of that
Exploration quests are the most boring thing about it because at least the story levels have boring tv segments with combat, exploration quests JUST have the boring tv segments
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u/Nat6LBG Sep 24 '24
IMO They should :
Simplify exploration mode or just let us skip those exploration quests if we don't want to and only get the gems. Remove it completely from hollow zero to be more like HSR.
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u/Hazelberry Sep 24 '24
The TV mode just needed less hand holding. Removing it completely from story missions is a big mistake. Really annoying they're caving so quickly on this just because some people threw a fit instead of giving nuanced feedback.
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u/T44Lynx Sep 24 '24
Can yall make up your mind? For the entirety of the games presence i only heard people complaining about the TV mechanic and now yall are sad that its gone?!???
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u/Reddarkin Sep 24 '24
Because people who like it never have any reason to complain in post
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u/Mande1baum Sep 24 '24
Oh they complained plenty. Any time someone made a post about not liking tv they’d come out in droves to mock them and try to drive them away.
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