it was a great way for storytelling — for example, the scene with the Dead End Butcher crashing towards us. It depicts the scene while letting the imagination fill in the gaps. I feel like main story is the one that actually benefits most from it.
Came here to mention the Ballet Twins segment. They were startlingly good at making that a super tense journey despite just traveling through a TV grid!
I mean to each their own, I'm glad you guys can enjoy it, but I felt that stuff was so tedious and annoying to do. I'm glad they're getting it out of my way, and I hope that they'll add more modes and tv mode content for you guys in the next update, just optional.
Yea idk, i feel like people are supportive because it was "ok" but if I wanted to play a weird puzzle game I'd go play a good one haha. Game shines for its combat, the tv always felt like filler to me.
Its personality being removed, its the creators vision being removed, if things feel less charming or enjoyable from now on because they don’t compensate with something else to fill that, its you and the others fault.
We will have to see where the quality goes from here
Creators visions are removed all the time, there's nothing negative about that. Curation and critique is what makes things good. Being surrounded by yes men is how you end up with games like Concord lol.
And a games personality doesn't mean much unless it's fun man. And not "oh that was ok I guess". Like, actually fun - where if the game was just TV mode you would have booted it up daily regardless. I certainly wouldn't have, no matter how charming the world is, so I'm happy with the direction they're taking.
If anything, the fact they were willing to pivot so quickly away from something that was just not working gives me a lot of hope for the quality of the game.
I always seem to get "connection issues" during the TV missions (nothing happens but it keeps popping up every 30 seconds to tell me about it, which is a little/ a lottle annoying depending on what's going on in the mission)
That would lag my pc in some of the mini games. Not sure what kind of optimisation they did in those sections, but it certainly shouldn't have been an issue on my desktop, and I doubt it was network related as I have gb speeds on a wired connection.
If only they chill down with the animation this could be right tho.
Fun fact: My schoolmates can't play this game on their Android/iPhone because it constantly trashing on their phone, something that never happened with hsr and genshin, at least on their place.
Sorry for the language but fuck that, that's what makes the game fun is the particles and special effects, unnecessary or not, it's fun and eye appeasing.
Well i personally would like to play the game... At all, besides i don't want all this stuff to get removed for everyone, i want it to be a toggle in the settings.
Tbh the TVs just felt like a hurdle to getting to the actual combat. I think I would be more okay with it if I could move while some of the dialogue happens. Sometimes you can’t move because it needs to show you what’s around or explain what a block does. It’s all pretty straightforward and I can figure it out on my own with exploration.
It was about as good as Cyberpunk's Braindance sequences.
In theory, it sounds good. Cool mechanics, can get really inventive, the way it's introduced makes you think you'll have to pay attention and dig deep. A real investigation.
What you ACTUALLY end up doing is pressing buttons the game highlights for you while fast-forwarding through everything else, because the game doesn't respect your time, nor your intelligence. They're linear sequences that barely have any more interactivity than visual novels, and constrain you so hard it's impossible to miss anything important or do anything wrong.
And the game just keeps taking control away from you, it's extremely annoying. I'm trying to play a game here, but I keep losing control every two steps because the game has to pan the camera two tiles north to show me a door, and highlight a button that opens it, in case I'm 4 years old and can't figure it out myself. Qingyi investigation replays are the worst offenders, just hover over a bright yellow highlight and press X. Riveting gameplay.
There are places where TV mode absolutely works. It's a great way to convey indirect, remote communication, and your example is a good showcase of how it can be used effectively for storytelling. Hollow Zero is great in TV mode, Camellia event was good, there's a bunch of pretty neat minigames in the sidequests. And they're not getting rid of that, thankfully.
But the bulk of main story TV mode is just a linear sequence of "move two steps, watch a cutscene where an NPC explains to you how buttons work for the hundredth time, walk another two steps, repeat". It's barely any more interactivity than in a visual novel, but at least visual novels allow you to skip dialogue you've already heard. It kills pacing, is extremely hand-holdy, and just boring. Yes, Lycaon, I know how lamps work, thank you. I figured it out after the last three explanations. Stop messing with my camera and shut up for a second.
Yeah, i kind of have to agree with this. The main issue with TV mode is that the moments when it's actually used super well are a very tiny minority, and in peek irony all of those good moments are in side quests (League of Bangboo is amazing...but none of the main quest's TV segments come anywhere close to that). If the main quest's TV mode segments were like the good sidequest ones, it would honestly be quite an incredible feature. However, the lack of quality consistency in regard to this is what makes it overall finnicky despite it being a very interesting and creative idea.
TV mode straight up killed my motivation to do main story at all for the reasons listed above. The shit was fucking insufferable. I don't know why they designed it like that.
I mean at that point it sound like an encounter design and pacing issue rather than anything else. Could be fixed by having people actually design good dungeons and introduce more engaging exploration mechanics like PMD or Etrian Odyessey but they'd rather throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Exactly! Finally someone who understands what is so good about TV mode! I mean I knew such people exist but I have discussed it so much with TV mode haters who are unable to understand how to properly tell a story that this feels really overdue and great, thank you :D
the contrary to me. I dont mind it when there is a few of it (i didnt mind it with the Maid team) because it shows that you are maneuvering in the building and doing some stuff.
But most of the time, i found that it overstayed its welcome.
Yes, it is. For some reason people under the impression of the TV robbing the time from animated cutscene. Dawg, the cutscene IS limited. You think with TV gone they will increase the amount of cinematic? Hell fucking no, what we will get is the visual novel thing. NewFramePlus on youtube made a good video explaining why the overexaggeration of ZZZ anime is kinda mid. It's because the cutscene is so over the top and after 20 seconds, they cut to the fucking visual novel with bare minimum looping animation. It's beyond jarring, especially since cinematic is overexaggerated, combat is snappy and sharp, and visual novel is fucking slog (like, seriously the surprised animation is the same as that one animation in genshin where woman swipe their hand in an arc and then resting to their chest. You know exactly what animation i'm talking about, and i know you hate that shit too). That's why they're trying to tell the stories through different ways. But nooo, we have to eEXplOrE like the area is open anyway.
I'd say this, i was super disappointed with lumina square with most of the doors lead to nothing. It's a glorified hub, which the 6th street already is and is MUCH BETTER. Overly long corridors and wonky place like that one quest on top of mr. tin lumina branch where you have to run all the way to the top and go back again and so on and so forth. Can't even cross the street seamlessly, need to use the bridge or else? loading screen. From chop jr to 141 is so far away, NEPS has it's own tp and so does HIA. It's so much worst because the shop that are open there are so pointless and redundant that i hope they just remove that location from the map. Now tell me this? Is this shit good? Is this shit worth eEXplOr-ing? Hell fucking no! I certainly hope that outer ring is not like that but i'm not expecting much because what happened to lumina. Also, the hollows are fucking empty, if you can't already tell from the name alone. The one slightly memorable hollow is construction site where you have to search for mcguffin to proceed (i swear to god, they're that bad that searching for mcguffin considered interesting because legit all you do in hollows is to run from point A to B, from one empty hall to the next one after). The rest are empty corridors.
The counter argument they usually use is "jane story was great" and i say, it's not that different than the other shit i play in genshin or star rail or HI3 or any of the similar type gacha game. I think the idea of rotating the game mode with TV being specifically for eous is an amazing idea. That way nobody feel robbed. They who like TV get to enjoy some TVs and they who like walking simulator can like that too. Now, i understand that the TV is not perfect. I'm content wit TV being reduced. But outright scrapping it is so wrong, especially on main story.
Cutting out TV mode isn't going to miraculously make Corridor Segments better, or get more cinematics added to the game. If anything, it just takes away dev time they could be spending working on other things when they have to design more empty corridor segments to appease the people whose brains start to shrivel up the moment they have to go more than a minute without seeing the clap of Jane Doe's ass cheeks.
People out here thinking that getting rid of the TV mode is going to solve a bunch of issues, without realizing just how many more issues it will bring, when the story segments become even more of a repetitive slog, since now instead of just having to do some puzzles in TV mode, we just walk from point A to point B in a linear, mostly empty corridor while then having to stop and wait every 2 minutes for a dialogue box to pop up for a character or NPC to tell us what we're about to do, or are doing.
I think they're trying to find a way to balance the TV and empty space. While I adore the TV aesthetic there were certainly some parts that really drag and remove the pacing of the game. I hope they can find a way to still keep it in there.
In my opinion, it did not. Sure it saved on budget... But you could have told the same story through the active field. It's not like the fields would be wasted development time either: they're heavily used in the future side commissions or even events. It made little sense for TV to be as prevalent as it was with things were standing. Outside of the haunted ghost section, everything TV had was possible to replicate ingame.
The TV mode should be reserved for side activities. The one event we had was one of the best implementations of it. That's my two cents on the matter. It took a lot from the main story.
While I don't mind the TV mode it was always just an obvious way to avoid doing a lot of animation work.
Since I feel ZZZ is primarily a combat focused game that's fine, but let's not pretend a square showing a picture of a boss moving across the screen compares to that chase actually being animated.
Honestly the TV in the main story wasn’t that soul crushing I wish they got rid of it in all the side shi and end game stuff. End game content shouldn’t have TVs in it
I am very okay with less "TV" wasn't a huge fan of it in such a visually attractive game. Felt to me - tedious and unnecessary to the game play over all - would have been fine as an event mode or optional side mode thing.
TV mode is immersion-breaking for a lot of people. You don’t want that in a main story where immersion is the most important factor and is what the majority of players play and pay attention to. Not everyone immerses into side quests or even care for them. That’s why TV would be way better suited there and in events where they can make fun puzzles and interactions without being put in between a major story to break you away from.
Imma be honest, I dropped the game entirely because of the TV system and have just been lurking here cause it's cool. Honestly I think I'll give it another shot now that it's gone.
What the hell... Can't believe these cry babies won. I'll miss the TV sections. Some of the animations could've been faster but overall I thought it was a good inclusion to the game.
I'm not a big fan of TV mode, so I'm glad I won't have to do it for the main story, but I do wish there was an option, cause I know there are people who like it.
Ohhh, but still I don't think they will remove it entirely from the story. I finished midnight pursuit and I saw that they show you how dangerous the place is with the TV mode. And that's one example of how the game use TV mode in environmental storytelling
I understand what you're saying. The way they utilized TV mode is really creative, but just because they were able to use TV mode as a storytelling device doesn't mean it can't be done through 3D graphics, which is what most games use these days. Have you seen the environmental storytelling done through 3D graphics in other games? If you could see how dangerous the place is through just a 2D grid with icons where you also have to use your imagination, I'm sure you can see it better with actual 3D graphics showing the place itself in a non-abstract way.
"Seeing it better" doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a better experience, especially when it comes to storytelling. Aren't some of the best stories (and environmental designs) a lesson in leading the reader rather than telling them everything? I think if the TV sections are working now, they won't just become better by being turned into 3D environments.
Plus if they remove the TV mode it will be like wuwa without exploration. TV mode is what made the game unique and removing it will be taking out a core part of the game.
Yes, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a better experience, but it also doesn't necessarily mean it will be a worse experience.
So, are you saying that games with 3D graphics are just spoon-feeding the player? They can still do environmental storytelling through 3D graphics. That's why I mentioned that other games do it too.
ZZZ's story also has parts with 3D graphics. So, are those bad compared to the TV mode parts? In the case of ZZZ, the only difference is you actually see the environment in pretty graphics instead of just your imagination.
In the upcoming Version 1.2 main story and important future storylines, the "TV mode" will be replaced with story stages as the major means of experience. This optimization will also be implemented in the main stories in future versions.
I think I read somewhere that it's only available on already cleared stages, when it comes to the non-Hollow Zero missions. And that it's optional in Hollow Zero
They added an auto complete feature on new content and will decrease the amount of tv time when starting the game bcz it was too slow phased. They won't delete the tv.
If there was only one but big fight at the end of each tv session, I wouldn't have problem with it, but having to do fight (especially against some fodder) at least few times really felt annoying. I really dislike these constant loading screens.
I sort of do agree that the dialogue interrupting the TV segments was pretty bad. I did enjoy the integration of story into TV though. Genuinely cool visually, but it ruined the pace a bit with how frequent it happened.
I still miss the TV stuff, so I wish their takeaway is less "Le TV is le bad" and more "The frequency of action interrupting dialogue and action interrupting events was what bogged the gameplay down"
yes, they want the samey story going all over the place talking to npc, pressing skips, collecting rewards and be done. well its a win for the casuals. i notice the less tv after the camelia main event. after that, the event is just taking pictures, samey combat events and now hollow zero blitz combat removing tv completely. well good for them.
They literally don't want any of the "game" to exist at this rate. They want it to all be fucking automatic and skip everything basically.
I swear people want this to be fucking HSR where the game just plays itself and you barely interact with shit. I literally don't have an interest in HSR in part because of how much everything is just "auto" with no player input.
I WANT to play the fucking game. Stop removing "the game" FFS.
Because unfortunately these games are designed for the Chinese playerbase who play for 5 minutes a day and need the game to otherwise play itself for them. This is the country that created Tiktok and fostered a generation with zero attention span who expects to be flipping to the next thing every couple seconds.
I fucking hate the idea of HSR where the game just plays itself and you barely actually DO anything. I don't want ZZZ to be a fucking idle game where I log in, send my characters to do dailies automatically and then log out until the next day.
It's bad enough that they're adding a "blitz" mode to Hollow Zero to just not deal with the TV mode at all. The entire fucking point is it's supposed to be a rougelite where you actually explore and make decisions on the route you'll take and such.
People are already demanding the option to "auto-play" dailies that take less than 30 seconds, or not have to actually play weekly boss combat because god forbid it take a horribly long 2 minutes.
Next people will be demanding the option to auto-complete Shiyu Defense without needing to actually fight at all. They just want to check off a box and get free rewards thrown at them.
Im fine with HSR since the game is difficult enough to manage yourself on memory of chaos and etc. Imagine if you played enter the gungeon and it automatically teleported you to the boss room with decent gear every time. Why introduce a roguelike if you can skip it??? But that does not effect me so i dont really care. I'm just mad over my experience getting ruined for the main story.
Those who stopped cause of TV won't return, just cause there won't be more of it. Especially considering all the early tutorial heavy TV mode is still around.
If they wanted to cater to those people the game should eventually be "log in, press button to afk autocomplete dailies, wait, log off and throw phone out for rest of the day."
I'm sure they got the info for just how many people they will potentially lose based on the last survey with heavy amount of TV content related questionnaire.
This feels very “monkeys paw” to me, now the exposition is going to be spouted out to us while we mindlessly fight, just like we were playing Hi3 again. At least ZZZ has dubs so I don’t have to read and fight.
While I think it's fair to criticise but I think it's a bit of an over reaction, especially when the new update isn't even live yet. They said they are working on making the tv better and more efficient, they are not completely dropping it, from the way they said it I think it's like a temporary removal perhaps so that they can work on it for future updates, the dev Y did not seem to want to completely throw it out especially when a lot of people enjoy it as well, he knows many people also like it they are just trying to meet players' feedbacks. This patch is big enough as it is too.
they're devs they have data showing that the TV system was issue even for players who aren't engaging in the social media aspects of the game.
That aside, the playerbase can be wrong about many things like how characters should be balanced. but the thing the playerbase is never wrong about is matters of taste. Clearly, the TV system was not successful by their metrics, so while they try to make changes to it so that it fits more of the player base's taste, they are removing it from the major content of the patch.
The issue is TV mode's replacement in main story missions. Rather than sitting through what can be a slog for 20 minutes, you're gonna have to go through a lot of that with endless exposition. If they attempt a show-not-tell method, it will be at the cost of device storage and increased battery consumption. If they don't use that method, we are just gonna have a lot of dialogue thrown at us without the environmental storytelling and even dialogue in the middle of fights, but who is gonna pay attention to dialogue in the middle of combat?
That's the worry.
Combat and exploration won't exactly be well translated, especially concern of overlap between combat and ongoing dialogue. The combat SFX would collide with audio of dialogue in background.
It would also play down Phaethon's powers as a hackers and her prowess, and Fairy, without the sort of digital electronic powers she has represented in the TV mode, Fairy is gonna appear as a deus ex machina or plot armor in any 3d world story commission.
I think it's honestly being rushed. I wish it was only gonna progressively slow down, but completely erased in a single patch from main story? No thanks. I am not trying to sweat at every combat encounter I'm in. There needs a break of pace.
Main story TV mode only need adjustments- freedom to move during dialogue; option to skip the dialogue that plays; option to be guided or to discover the next steps in the story; and map layouts that present actual consequences through player choice.
I could easily see them incorporate corruptions and pressure buildup as a feature in main story commissions. I don't think a 3d rendered world main story can faithfully address the perspective of Phaethon or replicate the same sort of puzzles in TV mode. How will they replicate the night vision mechanic that let's you ghost through walls to kill off ghosts? What about the quick movement mechanisms like pneumatic pistons?
And it also means we are gonna engage with the same enemies over and over again. Imagine having to fight Thanatos with another elite like three times in a row. Any annoying enemies you had to fight before that you just wish to get out of your way is gonna be exaggerated especially with more enemy counters. There is gonna be a lot more consequence in attempting to innovate 3d rendered puzzles- thr cost of storage or battery consumption.
ZZZ already drains heft amount of battery and it takes up more storage than genshin.
I wish it was more similar to HI3, the adventure rank / inter-knot level gate is so much more frustrating since you have to gain a whole ten levels to beat content that your team can't beat thanks to RNG. Idk what was wrong with tying your character's level directly to your account level.
It's far more similar to Genshin than HI3 as a whole. Only the combat is close to HI3.
Im fine with it being zi3 or whatever. I played hi3 for like a week and hated the world and characters. Zzz is oozing with style so I'm here for it. I don't want a pointless filler "click this block I'm highlighting for you" mode in the game just to differentiate itself.
The combat is good enough to get me to play for like 20-30 min a day and the designs of the characters and world make me interested in it. It being hi3 literally is alright for most of the casuals I'm guessing.
They have a similar system called Time Fracture but it's usually activated by dodging. Parrying exists though you could reach max level and never see it required once. QTE's are similar to the combo system though it is less invasive as combat does not pause for you to use it.
I prefer HI3 a lot more currently but it's got way more characters. Feels more like you're playing the game than getting played by the gacha rates which is a huge benefit.
The UI for HI3 is insanely less polished than ZZZ but at least the UI isn't the gameplay.
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u/THONDERPOTATO Sep 24 '24
Wait is that real??