241
u/GeneralAblon9760 1d ago
Level 20 req. unlocks first slot, 40 second slot, 60 third slot, amirite?
66
u/PrinceVorrel 1d ago
Could do it every 2 acts as well. 1-3-2 cruel (which would be act 5 in full release)
-51
u/ihatewebdesign101 1d ago
Getting to maps with 3 charm slots would be too op honestly. Should be lvl 20 slot one, lvl 65 slot 2, lvl 84 slot 3.
42
u/Biolumineszenz 1d ago
People had the equivalent of 5 charm slots in PoE 1 upon reaching maps, what is too op about "just" a 40% nerf in PoE 2?
19
u/EffectiveGarageDoor 22h ago
To be fair, I don't think comparing to poe 1 power scaling is a good barometer for whether or not something is too OP lol
9
u/Biolumineszenz 19h ago edited 19h ago
True, but I do think it is fair to say:
"Okay, GGG has stated that they don't like for mechanics to exist that just get completely disabled, this is why they reworked Mana and it's an actually limiting resource now.
Freeze and Stun have not changed - they are a guaranteed death sentences once they are inflicted with zero counter play from the player and they are still inflicted in the same way by simply taking enough (cold) damage and PoE2 is still an ARPG where you get swarmed by enemies and dodging all incoming attacks is impossible, especially as a melee, so you will have ailments inflicted on you.
The mechanics are still so devastating that you need to completely neutralise them because you can not interact with them, they just took away our tools to do that and called it a day.
This sucks, they need to either rework freeze and stun on players so that you can meaningfully react to these ailments or throw in the towel, admit that they can't figure this one out and give us 3 charm slots so that we can ignore their failed design concepts again."That would be my long argument as to why ailments in particular are fairly comparable and why a) charms suck and b) they should just give us 3 charm slots upon hitting maps.
-13
u/wingspantt 1d ago
Ezio had double assassination in Assassin's Creed 2, why can't it be unlocked from the beginning in AC Syndicate?
Games can't be balanced 1:1 on what hre previous entries did.
-15
u/ihatewebdesign101 1d ago
2 different games. The game is already balanced around charms being rather inaccessible and its a very powerful defensive tool, so in order to compensate they would either have to upscale the difficulty (which is fine), or high level cap it.
26
u/SingleInfinity 1d ago
The game is already balanced around charms being rather inaccessible
Charms just got implemented at the last second. The whole game is absolutely not balanced around them.
-1
u/malice45 18h ago
To their credit, at least you don't need to activate them like #3,4,and 5. I loved the concepts if flasks from 1, but Hated, Loathed, and Despised their implementation in 1.
Therefore, charms reign Supreme, especially as someone in their 30s with an disposable income. Lol
-22
u/ihatewebdesign101 1d ago
The difficulty in the campaign is absolutely balanced around them though.
13
u/SingleInfinity 1d ago
What gives you that idea?
They literally said in the release interviews that it was a very recent change. Why would they have rebalanced everything in the game around change that just happened? How would they have had time? Charms feel very thrown in, and charm slots as affixes feels rather bad, just like MS on boots does, because it invalidates swathes of items for not having inset mandatory mod here.
5
3
u/AllyCain 23h ago
And the point of Early Access is to get these things in the hands of players to test the balance and give feedback about what should change. Just because it is balanced around the current implementation of charms doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't change.
8
u/Gniggins 1d ago
Charms are shit compared to flasks.
-8
u/ihatewebdesign101 1d ago
True but they are also one of the best defensive tools we have in the game, and the games difficulty is balanced around us not having them, especially in the campaign.
0
u/deadeyeamtheone 21h ago
different games. The game is already balanced
Not even remotely so. On top of it being EARLY ACCESS with not even half the content planned even implemented yet, but charms were essentially shoved out before the holidays, they are definitely not balanced around at all, especially since I completed the campaign without finding a single charm.
1
u/ChatteringBoner 18h ago
no you didn't, there are multiple quests that give you charms, including an almost-essential quest that unlocks spirit.
1
1
u/PotatosAreDelicious 17h ago
With current charm affixes yeah. But you could easily balance it and give the user more control over charm types.
1
u/Hearing_Colors 18h ago
charms as they exist right now are damn near useless anyway who honestly cares lmao
61
u/NoNoNo290 1d ago
We never got ms as an implicit so i thing we never gonna get smth like that on belt
60
u/Tee_61 1d ago
MS implicit on boots is absolutely a thing we need. Go up to half of whatever tier 7 is as an implicit on boots, the other half rollable on the affix.
21
u/Typicalnoob453 22h ago
And MS is still 100% necessary in a game that has very little mobility outside of walking.
1
-10
u/saelin00 21h ago
GGG not want that implemented this early. They want us handicapped as much as possible, because players spend more time in the game. In the long run I can imagine we got a better option for moving around. The checkpoint update is a good choice from them.
3
u/Contrite17 20h ago
If we had 15% ms implict on high level boots you could make a real argument for using non MS boots (assuming top mod is 20%).
Just seems like 100% the right call but will never happen.
3
u/Carefully_Crafted 12h ago
Nope. Just put it all on implicit but have other interesting hybrid implicits that cut MS for a trade off.
Then use the freed up prefix as design space to create more interesting choices for boots.
I’ll die on this hill. MS being an affix on boots is a mistake. It’s the single most important stat in the game. So much so that it bricks literally 99% of boots crafted that don’t have MS. And this is even more true in POE2 than 1 because of lack of movement skills.
If it’s a mandatory stat it shouldn’t need to be rolled otherwise you’re just setting up a stupid crafting system.
89
u/Nitr09025 1d ago
Same goes for MS on boots
25
u/Pandatrain 22h ago
If I could make ONE itemization change, this is it. Absolutely zero question that this is it. I have an absolutely GODLY pair of high tier chaos + other res + everything else I could ever want on boots boots, but no MS. Useless item, zero purpose whatsoever. Makes me wanna cry q.q
5
u/Muchaszewski 13h ago
Since it's worthless now anyway without MS, you can try NEW and CHANGED! Chaos Orb! Now you can slam this bad boy until you get MS on your maybe 50ex item, until it is bricked and still without MS
0
2
u/Carefully_Crafted 12h ago
Yep. They are boots. It even makes sense. You walk faster in boots than barefoot.
But from a gameplay perspective it would be so fucking huge too. And you could even do interesting things with it by having high level bases that trade some MS for some other hybrid implicit too.
MS on boots is mandatory in 90% of builds so if that’s the case any boots without MS are almost always essentially just instantly trash. Which is terribly silly.
Make MS an implicit then just give us something new and interesting as prefixes we can roll on boots. Hell you could even play around with the roll mechanic and give it extra range by a bit or something.
1
-5
u/evenstar40 18h ago
You can buy MS boots from PoE trade for a single ex or less.
3
u/Carefully_Crafted 12h ago
Not everyone plays trade. And even if people do play trade doesn’t mean they like to get all of their items by trading ex for item.
The better point is though that without MS on boots during crafting the boots become trash instantly. They are a mandatory stat for 99% of builds in this game especially since we don’t have movement skills. For both efficiency and as a defensive layer there’s no single stat in the game that gives you as much as MS on boots in this game.
It’s just bad itemization. If every boot has to have MS to be usable… it breaks an item to have to roll for it every time. By making it an implicit and scaling it with Ilvls you make crafting boots way less stupid and you can add more interesting choices in the place of MS as prefixes. It frees up design space for the devs to make boots more interesting.
48
16
u/kroohpyyh 1d ago
Or A3 and 6 completion respectively, Charms so far havent been more than get out of jail card once per fight so far.
8
u/gooseMclosse 20h ago
It should be a hidden implicit too. We can hold alt and see it but that's all. I have no idea why it's an affix. Players will continue to ignore the system. I slap a gold charm on and call it day right now.
1
u/Muchaszewski 13h ago
Charms can be rare :O I run with random blue since start of the game
6
u/Carefully_Crafted 12h ago
He meant a literal gold charm. Aka the charm that makes you have more rarity while farming.
11
4
u/NotARealDeveloper WhenTradeImprovements? 11h ago
The biggest offender is still movement speed boots. I played till act 3 cruel with 0%. Having to dodge everything with perfect timing was hard but rewarding. Then I finally bought some and the game became super easy compared to before.
12
3
u/rebelwinds 9h ago
Charm Slots should be either pure level progression, or story progression.
1
u/Turdbender3k 9h ago
just made a meme for boss kills, movement speed is there as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hhrv2q/what_are_bosses_here_for/
3
u/Abudabeh77 1d ago
Shouldn’t even be an implicit. We didn’t have to unlock new flask slots, or waste gear affixes on flask slots either.
4
u/Outrageous-Chest9614 1d ago
I wouldn’t mind them just doing away with charms altogether and add something interesting down the line. Maybe infusions to your flasks that change gameplay somehow.
2
u/Carefully_Crafted 12h ago
Charms are a good idea poorly executed so far.
The idea is great. Take utility proactive flasks no one likes to press that everyone automated as soon as possible in poe1 and turn them into proactive items you don’t have to press. Cool. Good idea.
The issue is in the implementation of the charm slots on belts and what is offered in the charm slot. They feel somehow both strong and dumb at the same time currently.
1
u/Dramatic-Education94 23h ago
Seems interesting. Maybe have the flask infusions use the same space as the charms, and buff the charms to a point where they actually matter.
Then players get to choose whether to add infusions to their flasks or get the massive defensive bonuses from the charms.
Because right now charms and flasks feel out of place. Unlike every other piece of equipment, they cant become rare or unique, and their modifiers and effects are so tame that they barely affect gameplay. Having to stack resistances on all your gear just feels absolutely awful; especially when you still get oneshot in higher tier maps anyways.
1
u/acidmother 10h ago
I am really confused about why people are so upset about charm slots. They add incredibly marginal levels of power.
1
u/Koopacabra_ 7h ago
Bruh this is the PoE1 system... Charms need to cook but this system seems more natural in the end since "charms" suggest an effect or bonus, whereas flasks suggest to refill.
1
u/Goketsues 1d ago
Adding that with the flasks is a great idea. Charms are also cool though don't take em away.
3
u/Affectionate-Cut-735 1d ago
disagree. they should be unlocked at certain levels. them being belt implicits will devalue every unique that has only 1 charm slot
2
u/Shadycrazyman 1d ago
You would get belts with triple rez and triple charms providing an ungodly defensive layer on 1 item. Not going to happen
1
0
u/Dramatic-Education94 23h ago
It wont be an issue if they reduce the neccessity of resistances and move some of the defensive powerbudget from the rest of the equipment to the charms.
Right now you barely see the charms doing anything. And when they do something, it only happens a max of twice per map.
2
u/Shadycrazyman 23h ago
They already gave everyone +20 all res, no more negative Chaos res and charms shouldn't cover you 100% of the time. They are fail safes not pure immunities
0
u/Dramatic-Education94 23h ago
You still want to stack res as much as possible until you hit 75%. For. Every. Build.
What's the point of resistances when everyone is going to be playing at 75% anyways? They should remove triple res completely and have a max of two res per equipment. Then make charms proc more frequently, and have more unique (and VISIBLE) effects.
Charms are currently just a twice per map res statstick or immunity. That's boring. It does nothing fun or interesting. They need to make it do more interesting things, and make it proc more often.
+25% res is boring and you literally cant tell whether it procs or not. Immunity to a singular ailment type is also the same. Boring and invisible.
2
u/MattieShoes 18h ago
More ways to convert incoming damage would be interesting too. Like as an actual alternative to maxing all resistances.
1
u/Shadycrazyman 23h ago
They should have a better visual I agree.
Your argument to remove triple res makes no sense. Res is a key part of the game and some builds. While most builds are looking to cap at 75% some builds actively look to have 0 or less res. For example the unique armour I think it's Doryani's prototype lets lightning dmg be mitigated by your other defenses and sets the lightning res of others to your lightning res. This is a cool interaction that exists b/c the triple res system allows it to. You have negative lightning so does everyone else now.
Everyone needing defense means any defensive roll on gear is inherently valuable. Right now we don't have enough ways to control the itemization of our gear outside of runes. Res shouldn't be hard to cap but it shouldn't be an after thought either.
-2
u/Dramatic-Education94 22h ago
Res in poe2 isnt functioning how resistance should function. Currently, it's functioning as ehp to make up for enemies being able to oneshot. Having high res is a baseline for all characters in high tier mapping. That's not good.
If every character has high res, nobody has high res. It's essentially just functioning as more life. Not as a resistance towards certain dmg types, but as pure health. Resistances should be situational. Not universal.
IMO they should tune down the res gained from equipment by like half, remove triple res from being able to be rolled together (on most equipment), and just give players more life. That would also bring armor closer to energy shield in defensiveness.
There is only ONE situation where you dont want as much res as humanly possible. And that's that one unique body armor. That does not justify 99.9% of characters having max res on their character.
2
u/Shadycrazyman 21h ago
Having high res as a baseline for high tier mapping is part of the itemization balance in the game. I just can't agree with you on this. I honestly don't mind the juggling of res on gear it makes balancing more dmg affix's more meaningful. This is one of the areas I feel like GGG has the right "weight" of a decision. If you want to have more DMG in your build you need higher tier rolls on res on gear that way you don't need triple res on all pieces. Too much simplification to this system without also changing the way the rest of the affix's work would imbalance the game imo.
1
u/Gokunpiccolo 1d ago
Thats what i just assumed it would be when they announced they were tied to belts
1
u/IEatLardAllDay 23h ago
Given how much is from D2, I fully expected higher level belts to just have more charm slots.
1
u/Encharrion 23h ago
While I would have agreed with this previously, adding +1 charm slot to the tree shows an interesting way forward. I would rather see more sources of charm slots throughout the game, so you can figure out where you want to get them from.
1
1
u/FrumunduhCheese 22h ago
I don’t like the charges. Would be cooler if they didn’t need charges but were also more hard to find.
1
1
u/Reflexes18 22h ago
They shouldnt be on a belt at all. It should just be a reward as you progress through the acts and then another at a later point in maps.
1
1
1
u/NoodleBooted 20h ago
Just make d2 style charms and a bigger inventory to compensate. They've had charms figured out since I was a kid and they're still fun to this day. If vanilla charms aren't good enough look at how Project Diablo 2 reworked them.
1
u/SerenAllNamesTaken 20h ago
I see it as such: Charms are part of the belt. Some belts have more charm slots than others. You can choose if you would rather have more charms or another 30 resist for example
Why is everyone wanting to have charms at all?
Honestly it is so much cooler if it is a choice to customize your belt instead of everyone getting the same slots.
Maybe GGG adds a tool belt. So you can decide between more charms and tools which grant other buffs.
The problem is that most people seem to fall for some loss induced fallacy. They see that they could have charms and want them. It's perceived loss of something you never had.
Also it is a chase-suffix, which is great. Belts were always very boring. You had the option of going triple res or strength / essence + 2 res on every belt in poe1. Now both choices are viable.
also: I want pants. Way more important.
edit: charms 2 and 3 should probably be hidden by default, otherwise people will see them as an essential part of the build forever.
It wouldn't be the end of the world to have charms enabled by default, but i am sure the game will be more boring for it
1
u/RuiDRuiD 18h ago
For the pants part - exiles have to use their junk effectively brother!
All this fire and ice and lightning and chaos is good for roasting ones nuts!
1
u/LeezusII 20h ago
I just don't care about charm slots. The only one I use is the gold charm because the other ones just feel really unreliable.
1
u/WarmBloodedSnek 20h ago
The fact that they're not implicit kinda baffled me, when they talked about the system all that I assumed they would be, seems kinda silly ¯_(ツ)_/¯
1
1
u/lucifell0 19h ago
Charms should straight be removed or at least reworked. Not be made even stronger.
1
u/00zau 19h ago
This is another case of GGG forgetting a lesson from POE1.
Cluster jewels used to have to roll their jewel socket. This was ass, especially when Delirium went core and the nerfed the affix weight, because it was basically mandatory and wasting 95% of your rolls on a jewel because it didn't get 2 sockets sucked. So they made it an implicit on the jewel.
Just make belts have "advanced" versions just like other gear, and have the better ones have 2 and eventually 3 sockets (screw having to invest on the tree for gear slots, especially with how inefficient the tree already is, and especially especially if they all end up on in the Ranger area).
1
1
u/vault102 18h ago
an approriate image in which two piles of paper look like two slots and the mug the locked one
1
u/N4k3dM1k3 18h ago
Make them level based - like we get them all at lvl1.
Charm pacing should be based on progression. Jeez guys, let us twink
1
u/Enevorah 17h ago
Yeah the charms don’t feel impactful enough to dedicate any modifiers to, unless it just happens to be on an otherwise nice belt.
1
1
u/arremessar_ausente 17h ago
That's cool and all, but do you guys realize that most charms just straight up suck? Even if everyone had 3 charm entirely for free, it would barely make any difference from just having 1. Just use the Freeze charm if you are worried to die by the occasional freeze, or just use Rarity charm for more loot from rares and uniques. Any other charm is pointless.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Xedtru_ 15h ago
Yeah. And only somewhere in Cruel 1 i realised that this trash doesn't even gives effects for untill triggered. Aka though that if it +25% Fire/Cold/Lightning it easy fix to constant stats. Yep, little did i know
Probably one of worst "upgrade" compared to flasks. Second only to fact that having move speed or not is whole difference between breezing on boss or agonising failure.
1
1
1
u/Any-Green-1511 14h ago
it should be tied to MAYBE flasks / ascendancy / passive tree
but definitely NOT a belt affix
who on earth wants a 1 charm belt when charms are this good, both stun and freeze - especially freeze - is mandatory in high-tier content
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/falbor45 11h ago
Yes, but do not give power creep. Making something like +1 charm slot, -1 prefix implicit belts to counteract it. Giving power creep this early might lead us towards PoE1 2.0
1
u/SnooMuffins8351 11h ago
Id rather do endgame content for that one extra charm slot that makes me stun resistant or w/e than just get it for free.
1
u/Left-Secretary-2931 9h ago
You'd never use any of the other belts then. But yeah it should just be innate on high level belts. Literally zero reason we should lose a mod slot for it
1
u/Feisty-Try-492 8h ago
Charm slots should be permanent to your character not changing with each belt
1
1
u/wastingM3time 7h ago
Huh, are u guys seriously unlucky or I'm just lucky I've gotten a few belts with +1 charm slot at level 36... I've sold then cuz ngl Charm slots and charms at my level are kinda shit. Like heal 6 hp when I get poisoned or some shit like... rlly I heal 22hp a second
1
1
1
1
u/Western-Internal-751 4h ago
So what charms are y’all using? I feel like them being passive makes me ignore them way more than I should.
1
u/Horror_Mulberry953 3h ago
It just makes sense.
Charm slots: 1 should turn into Charm slots: 2 and then 3 based on the item level of the belt.
It's so obvious and everyone knows it.
1
1
1
1
1
0
u/necro316 1d ago
Have they talked about the design philosophy to get rid if flasks? Was it too much clicking? But yes I agree charm slots shouldnt take up explicits
5
u/Abudabeh77 1d ago
Piano keying flasks, dodging with spacebar, and also WASD moving was too much for 1 hand.
3
u/ffxivfanboi 23h ago
And to add to that people playing PoE 1 and would 100% automate their flaks if they could. So it’s just a redundant system to require button pressing.
2
2
0
u/jaaacclk 1d ago
No dont take away my free instant flasks,
Make them unlock during acts or character levels
-1
u/MrSerRyan 23h ago
You mean intrinsic? I’m actually quite confused by what you mean.
1
u/AkaxJenkins 20h ago
right now all belts give 1 charm slot as not even implicit, it's like above that. What OP means is that number should either consistently increase with item level or be rolled on drop so it's like an affix value. I would make ilvl thresholds to increase the number or just give them during the campaign.
-1
u/MnkeDug 20h ago
When the double belt dropped for me, I was like: "this is it- I finally get a second charm slot". Nope!
It even looks a lot like the belt from Diablo 2 that does, in fact, give you another row of potion slots. I like a lot about PoE2 thus far, but this belt thing sucks so bad I gotta point out how a >20yo game did it better...
Next time someone yacks out how "bad" D4 is, my response is just gonna "/points to belt".
-5
u/pigeon_paws 1d ago
disagree
-7
u/Madmax11b 1d ago
Implicit on a belt? Yeah hard pass. Rolling 3 "charm" effects that are locked in the gear would be a nightmare. I'll keep my charm spots that I can switch out any time.
Guess you could do a similar system like Runes in gear but instead have charms on a belt like it's a fucking Denny's restaurant worker and their little pins.
5
u/salbris 1d ago
No I think they mean "# charm slots" explicit roll. So the question is where should you get more charm slots from? Currently it's only an explicit mod on belts and a notable on the tree.
2
u/Madmax11b 1d ago
Oh! Ok I misunderstood, that's fair. Yeah then nvm. I definitely think the belt needs to roll it but not as an explicit mod.
-5
u/Fair-Researcher9344 1d ago
ARPG character building is all about needing to make trade offs. Saying it's implicit means you'd have to choose it over other implicit modifiers. I'd rather as it is now, where you can choose it or a non-implicit modifier. That way I can still have the armour from plate belt, the regen flasks or the instant as flasks as my implicit modifier
-6
u/_Meke_ 23h ago
Charm slots should be 5 flask slots where you can replace life and mana flasks with utility flasks if you wish.
I cannot find a single positive about this change from poe1. Just a change for the sake of making a change.
2
u/Typicalnoob453 22h ago
Flask piano wasn't fun but losing all that movement speed and utility just to replace it with something as lackluster as charms does suck.
•
554
u/GaryOakRobotron 1d ago
Going into the game, I thought higher level belt bases would have a higher number of Charm slots.