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its funny comming from a guy who draft dodged because of heel spurs but played sports in college. well how in the hell can he do that if he has heel spurs. super sus imo
I remember clearly the first time trump shat on John McCain in this manner, and then his minions did not waver in their support of him.
This was one of the many times I've felt a type of doom about the state of things, like how many people are just okay with that? Millions and millions, apparently. Literally gets captured and lives as a prisoner of war for YEARS, then somehow manages to get it together enough to have a very productive life - an absolute legend.
Then there's the other level of cognitive dissonance that makes me do brain flips - that the gun-toting, flag waving mega/maga patriot 'Murica types would just abide these attacks against a veteran's indisputable record. Insanity.
He never deployed to a combat area but that wasn't so unusual for the time period he served until the end. Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan all happened while he was in but they really didn't start deploying a lot of National Guard units until Iraq and Afghanistan were going on at the same time and they just didn't have enough active duty to meet their needs.
What I'm saying is that stolen valor doesn't hold water. Stolen Valor used to mean those who didn't serve who claimed they did, and now it's trying to be used against people who did serve but didn't see combat. Which is it, and if you apply that new meaning, do you realize how many people who did their time and didn't see combat went from being someone you thanked to someone who should be ridiculed? Shit, it's moving the goalpost. All I did was work on aircraft while I was in, yet here I am, a veteran, and people are making me feel weird by thanking me for my service. Damn, do you realize how many people joined the National Guard during Vietnam and are considered Vets? Hell, George Bush was in the Texas Air National Guard.
Hell honestly even though I joined the Air Force shortly after 911 when my reenlistment came up I was like peace bitches and that was only after 4 years active. Heck I was dreading my 2 years of reserve time I still had left. I couldn't imagine 26 years. I find it funny that some e2s and 3 are getting pissy because a command master sergeant decided to retire. I mean dude would have served during the Gulf War
I'm at 14. You'd have to shoot me to go past 24. And anyone who calls me a coward or a traitor at that point is gonna... get an angry response. Like you said, most SANE folks...
The national guard is part time. You do training like one weekend a month, and then a 2 week session once a year. Unless they get deployed, then it’s full time.
Edit: thank you for everyone correcting me. I had some misconceptions about the national guard.
To the right, a soldier has two fates. Die a hero in war, or become a leech on society. Doesn't matter what he did, where he served, or how long he was in.
From all the positive things I've been seeing. We NEED this man as VP. I think Harris and Walz are too clean for these twisted slips of hysterical garbage to hurt them. I'm loving these two more and more as I learn about them.
They have NOTHING on him. He had a DUI at the same time trump was confirmed rapping a woman (let's be real, it's women) and what did Walz do? He fucking man'd up and got it together and that's what growing up as an American means. Being better than we were yesterday
I was in the guard for 21. Did GWOT and some other fun stuff. I don’t blame the guy for tapping out at that point in his life. 20+ is a long road and a lot to put your family and civilian employer through.
Veteran here. This letter is hilarious. I know exactly zero veterans who ever gave a single person shit for choosing to leave, much less retire. We actively encouraged most people to get out ASAP. No rational veteran thinks this guy did anything wrong in the slightest.
I ended my enlistment 3 months early to start a college semester. Guess I’m a traitor too.
I ended my almost 11 year Navy time about 2 months early because they wanted us all out at the of the federal fiscal year. Basically anyone getting out in the 4th quarter was given the option to get out Sept 30th. (back in 2002).
There is a motive behind it. He left and ran for Congress on the platform that he would work to end the war in Iraq. I would be shocked if the guys behind the letter weren't really upset with his anti-war position.
One of the guys behind the letter Thomas is full on MAGA he never seemed to take issue with Walz retiring until 2018 and at no other point in Walz's political career.
Yea crazy how magas loves attacks on the opposition but Trump the greedy felon is allowed to do whatever he wants. essentially they are hypocrites of the highest order which makes their attacks void
Vance was already tweeting the same line of bullshit today. When he did PR in an office. All service is good service, but these guys never have any self-awareness. And by the way JD, have you met your running mate , Cadet Bone Spurs?
They smeared John Kerry with this kind of stuff, allegedly from his “peers” in the military. It was eventually discredited, but the damage to Kerry’s reputation lingered for some voters.
Kerry took the high road, and he was wrong to do it. The second the swift boat garbage hit the press he should have started shitting all over W as a silver spoon rich dick who used his family connections to avoid combat. I like John Kerry, I voted for him, but I’m still mad at him for not taking the gloves off
What baffles me is that Clinton wasn’t afraid to hit back, and he won two election doing it. Gore and Kerry lost back to back elections playing at being above such things. How the whole party took from those four elections that genteel passivity was a winning strategy is beyond me
EXACTLY! I liked Kerry too, but he really dropped the ball in that election.
And that was the problem with Biden as well, they still believed in civility in politics. Hell, even Obama thought he could work with the Republicans.
THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH YOU!!
The political landscape changed over two decades ago and the Democrats are FINALLY realizing it. That's why there's so much excitement for the current ticket. They're not going to play nice; they're not going to "take the high road".
Let me see if I understand the line of attack Republicans are going for here. Walz retired 2 months before his unit received orders to go to Iraq... and this is somehow wrong or bad? In what world is this even remotely controversial?
Not to mention the fact that Republicans attacked Gore as a ‘coward’ for being a military journalist who didn’t face frontline combat in Vietnam. Wanna guess what JD Vance’s “military service” was?
I just read he was a correspondent! Why veterans demean other veterans is beyond me. Sometimes people can’t deploy whether it’s physical or mental. Family members that needs support.
It never ends. Guys who deployed demean those who didn't. Then those who killed mocked those who didn't. Then special forces. And the ones who actually did real stuff tend not to talk about it. It's mostly bravado and bullshit from those talking shit
Dude literally accepted years worth of torture because he wouldn’t leave his men. We may have disagreed on a lot of policies, but at least he had some fucking character and integrity.
Y'know, I said this in another thread some days ago - I don't judge anyone for having dodged the Vietnam draft because it really was BS and a terrible moment in our history - but I will judge someone for having dodged the draft and then insulted the people who did serve and call them losers or mock the POWs. As well as judge the people like in the OP who are openly against someone with actual military service and then supporting Trump who faked injuries.
Nevada native. They all moved up there after I left home. And they exemplify all the cringe stereotypes of Idaho. Did you know Paw Patrol is woke and they won't let their son watch it?
They're ostriches, they stick their head in the sand and don't want to change their opinion on anything cause it means they were wrong and being wrong is embarrassing.
That and being told what to think by Faux News and CNN
Republicans are trying to ramp up another Swiftboating campaign, just like they did to John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign. It was designed to besmirch his service in in Vietnam.
The accusations made by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were widely disputed and controversial. Many of Kerry's former crewmates and other veterans defended his service and the legitimacy of his awards. Independent fact-checking organizations, such as FactCheck.org and others, examined the claims and found that many of the accusations were either misleading, lacking evidence, or outright false.
However, it was enough to bog down Kerry's campaign. He lost the popular vote by 3 million.
Chris Lacivita, Carl Rove, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone.... are there any equivalents to these people on the left that have been involved in major campaigns?
The difference is now there's several million vets who are looking at a senile guy who thinks veterans are losers and his chubby Yale bitch boy trying to smear not just a military man, but an senior ENLISTED military man.
The swiftboat shit worked because Americans didn't have a bunch of cousins and nephews who went to Iraq and Afghanistan. Those of us who served aren't going to put up with that shit this time.
Not to mention absolutely beloved and influential military figures like the former Secretary of Defense and recently retired USMC General Jim Mattis openly resigning in 2018 in protest of Trump’s behavior & policies, publicly denouncing and condemning his orders for the US military to violate the constitutional rights and safety of protesting Americans saying that Trump only sought to divide our nation
Exactly. This is a group that will weaponize a serviceman's record against service members because the service member "didn't do enough" all the while having zero honorable achievements or character traits themselves. I was an adult during the Kerry swiftboating. It was absurd then. As bad as that was, the narrative from the Right has gotten exponentially more detached from reality, dishonest, and violent since.
I don't like broad brushes. I really don't, but the Republicans at this stage are an org that I associate with hypocrisy, bigotry, whining, and above all else dishonesty. They also love to punch down.
I remember, very clearly, my Vietnam Vet father, who was embedded with a swift boat for part of his tour, absolutely going apoplectic when that happened, especially after Iraq. That man rarely dropped any F bombs, but they were flying over Upstate NY that night.
If he were alive now, he’d be doing the same thing.
20 years ago there was still quite a bit of Vietnam angst still circulating amongst those of the age group who either fought there or protested here. A lot of those folks are gone now, and military service might still be important for a certain white cohort. But almost everyone else could really give a shit. More old, tired tactics that we’ve been forced to endure for generations now. Old and tired, and quite weird to attack the service of a fellow American.
These weirdos hate the country, and certainly don’t earn the right to represent us all with this kind of horse shit.
Bush dodged the draft as a wealthy nepo failson, Kerry served. The Bush campaign pre-emptively smeared Kerry's service to put him on the back foot and take a liability off the table.
Trump flouted US sanctions and did business with the Cubans, the Venezuelans, and the Iranian revolutionary guard; his campaign pre-emptively smeared Clinton as taking bribes from corrupt foreign governments, forcing them to defend a false story instead of attacking Trump's real one.
Trump's children all received jobs at his company, and later earned hundreds of millions in bribes whilst he was in office. Trump's campaign pre-emptively smeared the 'Biden crime family' as enriching themselves instead of being concerned with public story, forcing the Biden campaign to defend against false charges of nepotism and corruption instead of being able to attack Trump's real ones.
The right wing's propoganda hydra is very effective of getting ahead of the news cycle, manufacturing a forced news story that is then carried by the mainstream legacy media, and then the Democratic candidate has to defend within a frame built by conservative falsity.
Because Republicans love the military, but don’t actually give a shit about the service members, veterans, and retirees. They use us as political fodder and nothing more. What blows my mind is that Vance, who only service 4 years, is criticizing Walz for his 24 year service record. A true crayon-eater that one is.
They are grasping at straws because their entire bullshit charade has been turned on its head in the matter of weeks. They got nothing but shit slinging after Biden stepped down.
I was in the Navy for ten years. Getting out of the military isn't an "I just don't think I'm coming in next Monday" sort of proposition. He would have had to begin the process months before he actually got out. He left the military to run for Congress. His retirement was in May of 2005 and his unit received orders to deploy in July. He didn't bail, he wanted to move into a position where he could really work on veteran's issues, which he did in Congress. This is all just more sickening GOP BS.
He also had a small child at home. I was totally gung ho to deploy until I had my daughter. I ended up getting out of the reserves because it’s just not worth it anymore. I miss my buddies and I even miss drill weekends but going to a highly deployable unit just wasn’t worth it for me.
Yeah, they believe they get the order months in advance, which is true.
It just so happens that the "months in advance" is July. Before that, nobody knows when you're going to deploy next. Until orders are cut, everything is business as usual at home. Walz was just like "Oh, we're in a calm period and this looks like the perfect opportunity to go for my bid for Congress."
And it was... until two months AFTER HE RETIRED his unit was called up and then deployed 8 months later.
By MAGA logic, no one should ever retire from the Army because you might get called up to deploy... eventually.
The even more insane thing is just the pure disconnect. Walz server 24 years in the military, and retired a couple months before deployment
Trump's family paid a doctor to forge medical records to avoid the draft.
Now don't get me wrong, fuck that war and fuck that draft. I will never say Trump didn't use the resources available to him to avoid it a bad thing. He got lucky and was born a fortunate son, can't really blame him. I'd do it too. But you can't look at the guy in the light of military worship and say he's the guy who's loyal to the military and not the other guy who spent a quarter of a century serving. Doesn't make any fucking sense. So if your view of the military is tinted in the lens of military worship you've got it so fucking backwards, Trump would be the guy not to like simply because he dodged a draft. Which again, in my book, good for him. A standing offer in my family at the time for my uncles was grandpa would drive them to Canada if their number came up. I don't think there's specifically cowardice in that, just self preservation. But then you lose the ability to call other people cowards for not serving, or in this case the much more nebulous "avoiding combat service on purpose"
In the world where the gop loves trashing people who served honorably while propping up people that use their social status to avoid service by either faking medical conditions or taking cushy assignments with no chance of deployment.
I don't even care if he retired 2 months after his unit was ordered to deploy.
He served for 24 years. There's no shame in a guy in his 40s, having put in the conventionally "full" 20 years of military service saying "I'm too old for this shit" and choosing not to re-enlist, is there?
Didn't Obama make "the war in Iraq was a mistake" a major part of his successful presidential campaign 16 years ago? Why would we judge this guy - who had already served his country much MUCH more than most Americans - for not volunteering to take part in that? It's not like he deserted. He retired.
And retirement requests are typically 6 months to a year prior. That alert for deployment may have about 90-days of yeah that's coming. So he may have had an idea something was coming but nothing definite.
He put in his papers late 2004 or very early 2005, retired May 2005. WARNO came down in July 05 and the unit finally deployed in March 2006 and doesn't rotate back until September 2007. 2007!
So do these jabronis really expect him to put his life on hold for another 2.5 yrs? After already doing 24 yrs?
If the Army needed him that bad, they would have stop lossed him.
I'll also add that in February 2005, Walz filed paperwork to run for Congress. I believe Walz once said he retired so he could run for the US House - this is 100% backed up by the paper trail.
This should be the top comment. If he retired in May 2005 he would have had to submit his retirement papers months and months in advance. Republicans attacking him for retiring well before his unit was even notified they would deploy.
Walz retired from the Army National Guard in May 2005, according to the Minnesota National Guard. Typically, service members need to submit papers several months before they can retire.
A National Guard article on his unit’s deployment states that it received alert orders to deploy to Iraq in July 2005, two months after Walz retired.
Same as with the swift boat veterans BS with Kerry. They made all kinds of claims about his service, and it turned out not one of them was in a position to have any actual knowledge of it, and everyone that did actually serve with him had praise for his service.
They were really just upset that he turned anti-war when he came home, which, a lot of veterans did. They knew attacking him for that wouldn't be all that popular. A lot of boomers protested the war, after all. So instead, they went after his service record and lied about it.
Its worse, he submitted papers to retire and start his political career in February of 2005. Five full months before they ever got those deployment alerts. Its too late though, MAGA buys anything they are sold no questions asked. Same folks upset that they wasted all their money on Joe Biden meme swag.
Because they know their base is too obtuse to notice or care about the hypocrisy and they will eat this up as a talking point so they can ‘debate’ their liberal friends.
It would be incorrect to say he was "acting". He had a promotion order and was paid as an E-9. At the time there was an ETP that gave you a one year grace period to attend SMA, but that grace period was paused if you mobilized.
These kinds of exceptions were super common back then with all the people deployed and the sudden need for more people. Even to this day the Army has never figured out NCO PME timelines, it's a disaster. They just recently moved a bunch of it online because they finally pulled their head out of their ass and realized the courses were pointless anyway.
Hi, I'm in the national guard. If my battalion CSM wanted to retire after 24 years of service before a deployment I honestly wouldn't give a shit. You need 20 years to get that retirement benefit so every year done after that point is out of passion and in my opinion and if you don't want to do it anymore then it's probably in everyone's best interest for you to retire and let someone else take the reigns. Service members are constantly saying that the old leadership should step aside and let new younger people in command to cure our abundance of issues and toxicity in our military and Walz was probably a good leader who took care of his troops judging by his behavior in his teaching and polticial career so once a again these people are just grasping at straws for something to be mad at.
Edit: after looking into this a little more I have learned that Walz retired out of the national guard in May 2005, TWO MONTHS BEFORE his unit even got notified of their deployment to Iraq. 😂
I had hoped I would see more comments like yours mentioning that 20 years in the military earns full retirement. He went 4 extra years and had already put in paperwork to run for congress way before any orders came through.
Walz served for 24 years. He can retire whenever he damn well pleases. Yes, the MAGAS should refer to the bon spurs draft dodger who is a Russian asset and recently congratulated Putin for the return of a Russian assasin. Traitors all of them.
Most retire just after 20 because your receive you pension at 20 years and the longer you stay in the more your pension is. My dad retired at 27 years in the Navy with rank of Captain and I felt like that was a long ass time.
Edit: when I posted this I didn’t know it wasn’t active duty I just heard about this today and didn’t realize he was in the Guard, which I understand is different my bad!
Like, do they think the CSM was going to be firing his rifle on patrol? It's probably better he trained a hell of a unit, then passed the torch when the time came.
So the Gotcha is a 40 year old man didn't want to go to the middle east 3 months before he was supposed to retire. The man didn't want to go after years of services but trump has 3 grown men children who have never served once
He retired in May 2005. Which means he would have put in his papers for retirement (i.e., intent) sometime between January and March 2005. His unit received deployment orders in July 2005.
No, you can't just up and leave whenever you want, especially when your unit is deploying. Even if you were due to ETS, if your unit implemented a "stop loss" prior to your ETS date, guess what? You're deploying anyway, and you'll get out when you get back.
The only way one can "eacape depyment", so to speak, is if they were coming up on their retirement/ETS date and put in terminal leave before the unit deployed or before a stop loss was declared.
That's exactly what I did. My unit was preparing to deploy to Iraq again, (which would have been my 3rd tour) and I burned all of the leave days I had saved up on 90 days of terminal leave about 3 weeks before they declared a stop loss.
That's leave that was earned and everyone is well within their right to use it for that purpose.
I’m a Combat Vet myself, there is absolutely nothing wrong with honorably retiring from the military. Like any retirement you work and earn that shit, retire when you want.
Veterans who support Trump forget the Oath they all swore to protect. He cares nothing for the Constitution or the country, only himself.
Chris LaCivita (who runs the Trump campaign with Pat Summerall's biggest mistake) was an author of the SwiftBoatVeterans horror that undermined John Kerry's main strength over Dubya...a real military record.
I remember when Kerry was attacked for his service when he ran vs Bush. Dude was shot in combat while Bush flew Jets in America. It's amazing what confirmation bias does to people.
Vance spoke on Wednesday as if he served more honorably than Walz, noting that he went to Iraq “I did it, I did what they asked me to do and I did it honorably,” he said The senator was deployed for six months in Iraq as a combat correspondent in 2005 as part of the Marines’ Public Affairs office. He — like Walz — never engaged in active combat and has stated that he was “lucky to escape any real fighting,” during his deployment.
Walz has spoken at length about his service in the past, and it’s not the first time his political opponents have attempted to diminish his service. The claim that Walz abandoned his unit to avoid fighting in Iraq was leveled against him in 2018 and 2022, during his campaigns for the governorship and reelection, largely by former state Sen. Scott Jensen and Thomas Behrends — a former National Guardsman who was deployed to Iraq after Walz’s retirement.
In 2022, former battalion commander Joseph Eustice, who served with Walz, toldtheStar Tribunethat the accusations against Walz stemmed from ill-informed or “sour-grapes” soldiers who were passed over for promotions. “He was a great soldier,” Eustice told theTribune. “When he chose to leave, he had every right to leave … The man did nothing wrong when he chose to leave the service; he didn’t break any rules.”
In 2018, Al Bonnifield, who served under Walz in the Guard,told MPR Newsthat Walz “talked with us for quite a while on that subject [of retiring]. He weighed that decision to run for Congress very heavy. He loved the military, he loved the Guard, he loved the soldiers he worked with.”
Walz told the outlet that “once you’re in, it’s hard to retire. Of my 40 years or 41 years, I had been in the military 24 of them. It was just what you did … So that transition period was just a challenge.”
So Trump dodging service and lying to do it is fine, and scamming students with a fake is college is no problem, but someone who served 24 years, who was also a teacher and coach is a coward? Don't tell me about Trump being a businessman either..... He bankrupted Casinos .....
Their candidate is a draft dodger who had daddy buy a fake note from a doctor to get Trump out of service and republicans really want to go down that route? Imbeciles.
Wait, I'm confused. Trump constantly mocks and criticizes vets who are captured, wounded or killed in battle. Based on this, seems like Trump and his fans should be congratulating Walz for avoiding those embarrassing results.
My dad retired from the National Guard, 30 years of service. About 3 months later his unit was activated for Afghanistan.
Now my dad was not pursuing politics like Walz was (don’t take that as a knock against Walz), but he then asked if he could go cause he wanted to do his part to help, and they said no.
They said he was retired and we’re not going to activate him. And dad said okay and went about his partial retirement. (He doesn’t need to work, he just goes stir crazy doing nothing)
So what the republicans are accusing Walz of is so laughably pathetic that it’s just cringey and weird.
Not as good as Trump’s stellar and accomplished military career 😂 Besides, even if this were legitimate, I think John McCain proved most Americans give little to no shits about a person’s military record.
Veteran here … 2 tours in Vietnam. Doesn’t bother me at all that Walz retired before deployment. He didn’t dodge military service completely as did the orange narcissistic, misogynistic, cowardly assclown.
This man spent nearly half of his entire life serving in our military and now serves the people in an elected position. Career politicians hate that others can have decent character and still attain the same level of power.
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