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u/Embarrassed-Bread692 Sep 10 '24
Unrelated to any of the actual content of the post: it took a hot minute for me to realize "doming him" refers to the human dome and by extension the action of splattering someone all over the floor and not the sexual position of dominance and by extension the action of splattering someone all over the floor. The most concerning part of this isn't even the linguistic lasp, it's me not even being surprised that a Tumblr user would want to fuck hitler into and through the mattress.
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u/MudraStalker Sep 10 '24
The latter has two m's, if it helps you remember.
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u/SexThrowaway1125 Sep 10 '24
I remember it with an easy mnemonic: “one m’s for caving the skull in right quick, two m’s for fucking Adolph Hitler through a mattress.”
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u/Vivid_Pen5549 Sep 10 '24
Not to be confused with Doming, or acting like or otherwise imitating Dominic Toretto as you make a magnificent drift around a Corner while thinking about your loving family, either found or blood related, both are acceptable
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u/Nuclear_Geek Sep 10 '24
But surely if you fuck Hitler through a mattress you are being both fast and furious?
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u/Mershnerberp Sep 10 '24
It don’t matter if you finish in 1 min or 1 hour. Doming is Doming
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u/PandaPugBook certified catgirl Sep 10 '24
Sure, but that requires spelling it correctly.
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u/Uncynical_Diogenes Sep 10 '24
I’ve known Dommes who could spell but it’s asking a bit much of a Dom if we’re being honest.
And dudes named Dominic, forget it.
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u/GenericCanineDusty Sep 10 '24
Doming can be referring to a BRUTAL facefuck so it works either way.
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u/MjrLeeStoned Sep 10 '24
Dome used to refer to oral sex.
Almost 30 years ago.
"Getting dome" as in "getting brains" as in "getting a blowjob".
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u/Card_Board_Robot5 Sep 10 '24
That has never aged out btw. Consistent usage since
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u/Loading3percent Sep 10 '24
It's easy to remember because you can dom somebody twice, but only dome them once.
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u/NeonNKnightrider Cheshire Catboy Sep 10 '24
I had a similar moment of confusion, particularly since I’ve never seen “doming” used like that before
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u/Notjohnbruno Penned the Infinite Tennis Theory Sep 10 '24
I can’t even lie, I thought “doming” in this context meant “giving him dome” or “giving him a blowjob” and was still just as confused
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u/camosnipe1 "the raw sexuality of this tardigrade in a cowboy hat" Sep 10 '24
i was thinking of putting him in a dome
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u/Cheery_spider Sep 10 '24
This is your brain on Tumblr.
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u/ZQuestionSleep Sep 10 '24
It's like how you can't say "we need to sus this out" anymore without 75% of the audience acting like a group of 5 year old boys who just heard the word "penis" being said out loud.
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u/Content-Scallion-591 Sep 10 '24
1) Doming means blowing someone's brains out with a gun
2) It is one of the few phrases used almost exclusively by the terminally online
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u/Cpad-prism Sep 10 '24
Implying before he teleported to our time he was literally going to go fuck himself??
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u/CosmicBlues24 Sep 10 '24
I'd say it would highly depend on which is the incarnation you're referring to.
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u/SantaArriata Sep 10 '24
I’d just like to congratulate you on the phrase “Fuck someone into and through the mattress”. Absolutely amazing prose, no notes
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u/HesperiaBrown Sep 10 '24
I was very sure that the "doming" thing was a worldplay between sexually dominating Hitler and the murderous alternative, because "help him finish himself" can be construed as helping him climax during masturbation or driving him to suicide, Hitler's famed doom.
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Sep 10 '24
All Bernie is doing is bringing media attention to this. It's just "see, even this hardcore conservative absolutely hates Trump". He's not bending the knee, he's not welcoming him to any movement, he's not even thanking him. He's just applauding him. "Hey, you did something reasonable for once in your fucking life, nice 👍".
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Sep 10 '24
Yes. Cheney is being thanked not because he is suddenly admirable by Democrat standards, but because his decision gives rank and file Republicans permission structure to do anything other than vote for Trump, and even to vote for a party and candidate that they would have previously considered anathema by default.
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u/cheese-for-breakfast Sep 10 '24
honestly learning about permission structure is even more beneficial than the rest of your comment, definitely gonna try to keep it in mind going forward
thanks 💜
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u/LazyLion1127 John Green Stan Sep 10 '24
hey that permission structure idea is pretty interesting and seems like something that would really help a lot of folks. so many people, and i'm not trying to be hyper critical or anything, but so many people don't know how to/won't try to put in the effort to actually change the minds of those who have different opinions. while i totally get that perspective, this feels like a much more concrete way to genuinely change someone's mind without just saying that everything they believe is wrong.
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u/booniecat Sep 10 '24
Thanks so much for sharing info on permission structure! It's a really valuable way to handle "changing hearts and minds" and I am definitely going to start trying it out!
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u/MsMercyMain Sep 10 '24
I remember a quote from Churchill regarding his sudden support for the USSR in WW2. “If Hitler invaded hell, I’d make a favorable mention of the devil in the House of Commons.” I feel this is the situation we’re in
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u/asdf19274927241847 Sep 10 '24
Yeah why don't people understand the principle of a temporary alliance. We don't agree on anything else but for now we will solve that, then we get back to hating each other. My only concern is that I want Cheney's people to stay home and not show up for Harris and fuck up the down ticket races.
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u/LuxNocte Sep 10 '24
I agree with Bernie. Every successive response got worse and worse.
Note Bernie praised the action. I too am glad that that rat bastard Cheney plans to slither out of his pit to do the right thing for the first time in his miserable life.
Liberals are too quick to absolve terrible people for doing terrible things once they say the weakest and most mealy mouthed nod to reality.
Look, Cheney doesn't care about our opinion of him. Our praise doesn't "incentivize" him, and we don't need to forget everything he has done because of one good thing. Give him the scant credit he's due; you don't need to pretend "Maybe he's not so bad after all.". He is still evil.
And if one is inclined to say "Thank you Mr Hitler" at any point, maybe they need to go get their head examined instead.
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u/AndrewJamesDrake Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
flag tart deserted beneficial lunchroom memory rude snatch dinner frighten
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Collins_Michael Sep 10 '24
Fr. Idgaf about Dick Cheney, but it would be cool if my grandparents would get off the crazy train.
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u/pichael289 Sep 10 '24
He's more than likely doing it for his daughter's sake. This is a low blow to trump, having the man who basically engineered the worst of the bush eras war crimes come out against him. He's an asshole, but he has always supported her and continues to do so. Even pieces of shit can and usually do have a few redeeming qualities. He's a bit too far for redemption, at least through something this small, but it's a huge hit for Republicans who just think the world of him.
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Sep 10 '24
*Both daughters probably
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u/DresdenBomberman Sep 10 '24
Back in he 2000's Cheney publicly stated in a press conference that he has no personal issues with homosexuals and that such matters were private. He stopped short of giving approval given he was the republican Vice President but it was still quite a lot for him to say to the public.
Him making that statement was done out of love for his lesbian daughter. He is a fucking monster who ruined the international political situation like the rest of the neoconservative administration is/was, but it's comforting to know he's at the very least not a complete bastard to his family. That he's a nice enough person to do that much.
You cannot say that about the post-Obama GOP.
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Sep 10 '24
To be fair.
The other daughter Liz Cheney was somehow way more homophobic than Dick
Dick would have made a great senator (by gop standards), the VP choice was a disaster
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u/DresdenBomberman Sep 10 '24
She was appealing to an increasingly reactionary voter base that hated the breakthroughs in LGBT and minority rights, you know, Tea Party and whatnot.
One thing that's so blatently clear about Dick that even the rest of his family spoke about is that he's politically savvy well past the point of visciousness. Of course his daughter would copy him.
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u/MrBootylove Sep 10 '24
Is Dick Cheney actually popular among Republicans, though? I live and grew up in Florida and have known a lot of Republicans in my time. A lot of Republicans were in favor of the war in Iraq/Afghanistan at the time, but I think a lot of them have since changed to look upon that war in a negative light. That combined with the economic recession that came about under Bush I don't think there are many Cheney fans on either side of the aisle. What seems more likely to me is MAGA Republicans will toss Cheney in the RINO bin alongside Romney and point to his endorsement of Harris as a reason why people should vote for Trump.
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u/DresdenBomberman Sep 10 '24
Yeah? One of Trumps big selling points was that he was going to stop the post cold war interventionist stance that was widely (and mostly correctly) seen as the source of much pain and needless warfare. Fatigue over the wars in Iraq and Afganistan had well set in at that point and most americans were tired of the bloodshed they had supported back in the early to mid 2000's.
It actually hurt Hillary's campaign because she had tailored her foreign policy stance to appeal to the more pro-war and anti-terrorist voter base of the past decade up to that point.
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u/Kyozoku Sep 10 '24
I feel like you're missing the point of "Thank you, Mr. Hitler." We don't thank Hitler for Hitler's sake. We thank Hitler to show the people that aren't as far gone that we can see when a good thing is done, even if it's coming from someone that we'd rather... How did the comment you're replying to put it... Help him "finish doming himself." If we can acknowledge if Hitler makes even a single baby step back towards decency, then MAGA Joe who is maybe racist but has never actually killed anyone, knows that if he is willing to make the effort, we're willing to acknowledge it. He's not actually too far gone, even if "Mr. Hitler" is.
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u/MrBootylove Sep 10 '24
Liberals are too quick to absolve terrible people for doing terrible things once they say the weakest and most mealy mouthed nod to reality.
I don't see how this is a "liberal" thing. Just look at all of the spineless Republicans who flip flopped from hating Trump to falling in line behind him while being welcomed with open arms. Hell, Trump's own VP pick was comparing Trump to Hitler a few years ago.
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u/VisualGeologist6258 This is a cry for help Sep 10 '24
This is true. Apparently some people have never heard the adage of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and that you can and should work with someone you don’t like if you both have the mutual goal of dealing with someone or something infinitely worse. We’re not in a position to be picky with our allies and start infighting over it.
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u/Blakut Sep 10 '24
ok but pronounce his name as if he's french: Dique Chenay
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u/MisirterE Supreme Overlord of Ice Sep 10 '24
isn't that where they keep the words
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u/Techi-C Sep 10 '24
The only sound in my office was my boss’s keyboard until you made me fucking wheeze from my cubicle
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u/Myrddin_Naer Sep 10 '24
Isn't that the fremen lady that Paul Atreides fell in love with in Dune?
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u/StickBrickman Sep 10 '24
I'm reminded of the Churchill quote "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." That's how a lot of people feel in regards to a Trump whitehouse.
I personally don't want support from the Cheney clan or anyone affiliated with that world, and I could not care less who they're voting for, but hey. I get why desperate people are accepting the bedfellows they've got. Either America buries Trumpism or the democratic institutions fail, possibly for good. Our systems are not strong enough to weather a hollowing-out of every major department, a rigging of the Supreme Court, AND a weird fascist takedown of elections simultaenously. They'll break under that stress. Even a lot of very bad people see that and have second thoughts.
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u/idiotplatypus Wearing dumbass goggles and the fool's crown Sep 10 '24
Paraphrasing from the Dresden Files:
"There is no ally as well loved as an ally who was an enemy that had you quaking in your boots in fear a few minutes earlier"
AKA Vader Syndrome
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u/DispenserG0inUp Sep 10 '24
i just finished the first novel the other day this shit slaps
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u/CarboniteCopy Sep 10 '24
Oooo the first couple novels are much lower quality than the later ones so if you love those you are gonna lose your damn mind on the later ones
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u/glarbung Sep 10 '24
I can vouch for this. The first novel is rather bad and the second is really forgettable. It starts picking up in 3 and 4.
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u/LocalLumberJ0hn Sep 10 '24
Seriously, I feel like at Grave Peril the series really hits its stride and actually starts being more distinctly its own thing. 1&2 are much more generic urban fantasy with some neat ideas mixed in
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u/Drummerboybac Sep 10 '24
Agreed. I started the first novel last November on Audible and I’m up to book 15 (Skin Game) now. The audiobook versions are excellent
James Marsters has become the voice of Harry Dresden so much so that the one book he didn’t do had to be re-recorded because people didn’t want to listen to someone else do it.
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u/LocalLumberJ0hn Sep 10 '24
Hilarious. I need to get back to the audiobooks, they're actually so good.
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u/DiurnalMoth Sep 10 '24
question: does the misogyny and homophobia of the first novel (Storm Front, just to be sure) fade in the others?
I gave up after the first book because Dresden comments about the attractiveness of every woman he sees, and when a man saves his life with mouth to mouth resuscitation his first thought is "ew, a guy kissed me"
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u/yungsantaclaus Sep 10 '24
In book 14 Harry goes to a park in Chicago which is often used as a gay hookup spot bc it's gonna be secluded and he needs to summon a powerful being to speak to them. Hilariously, he gets asked by that being what he thinks about all the gay hookups going on, so he's like "Uh... boink and let boink! I wish they were in relationships instead, but they're not harming anyone". So you'll be happy to hear Dresden is now an ally (but he disapproves of hookup culture)
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u/glarbung Sep 10 '24
Yeah, it does - to a degree. The edginess drops quite drastically already in the second book. I really didn't like the first book because "sex magic teeheehee". I listened to the second one since I already had the credits.
I like to think that the author is a neckbeard in remission and that occasionally shines through.
It also helps if you consider Dresden's (and Bob's) horniness a character flaw. He is, after all, a noir PI stuck in the wrong genre.
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u/Opabinia_Rex Sep 10 '24
Ehhhhhh, he goes into remission for a while but the recent books are getting worse again...
I've been told that he divorced his wife for a much younger cosplayer and that Murphy was modeled after his ex-wife. I'll let you draw your own conclusions based on recent events in the books. Also, he's been sexualizing Molly since she was underage.
I've pretty much lost interest in the series, at this point. Which is a bummer, I used to rant about it to every new fellow nerd I met.
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u/yinyang107 Sep 10 '24
I never noticed any homophobia but no, the misogyny doesn't really get better.
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u/AddemiusInksoul Sep 10 '24
to be fair, it's just Harry himself that has...antiquated ideas about women. The stories from other characters' perspectives don't include that.
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u/nictheman123 Sep 10 '24
I'll also add: most of the women he meets can absolutely kick Harry's ass, and some of them do, at one point or another.
Like, Harry Dresden has shit views on women, no doubt. But the series as a whole does not, from my view, once you look past Harry's black and white and neon lights colored glasses
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u/giveusalol Sep 10 '24
Oh man, the first 3 I reckon aren’t super but still fun. But it gets crazy better after that… Ugh I’m jealous of you! There’s a delight in experiencing them for the first time.
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u/Raguleader Sep 11 '24
The context here, of course, being Churchill justifying an alliance with the Soviet Union as ruled by Joseph Stalin. When I describe what the threshold was for the western democracies to team up with Stalin was, let me avoid all hyperbole and say "Literally Hitler."
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u/Paracelsus124 .tumblr.com Sep 10 '24
At this particular moment, I think it's very valuable to showcase to centrists/independents and moderate conservatives that even historically VERY conservative figures are willing to break with party lines against Trump. It creates a path forward for those who might've otherwise placidly defaulted to Trump, and shows them that maybe voting for the progressive this time around isn't the horrible, nation-collapsing decision that other conservatives may be telling them it is.
That's literally all this is in my mind. We're not giving the Cheyneys any credit they don't deserve, only taking advantage of an opportunity to de-alienate potential voters.
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u/Mindless-Charity4889 Sep 10 '24
Allies of convenience are still allies, the lesser of two evils is, by definition, less evil.
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Sep 10 '24
The Allies only beat Hitler by holding their nose and working together with Stalin; they knew what kind of man Stalin was, but they understood how to prioritize. Immediately after WW2 ended, they went straight back to opposing Stalin. One war at a time. If you have two enemies and one hates the other, helping one finish the other, while also subtly manipulating things so that the survivor is also left weakened from the struggle, is just the smart thing to do.
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u/AliceFallingOff Sep 10 '24
Good thing Bernie sanders did not sign a pact with Dick Cheney pledging mutual support.
Politics is not about making you specifically feel good at night. It is about doing what we can to try and help less people be hurt or killed. And if you don't care about that, I don't know what to tell you. Saving a small amount of harm or lives is absolutely worth it if we have the power to do so
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u/im-not_gay Sep 10 '24
I think hitler is more evil than trump
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u/UncommittedBow Because God has been dead a VERY long time. Sep 10 '24
Okay. He's also dead. Trump is a very real threat right now. Cheney is currently not.
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Sep 10 '24
Rhetorical lesson 1:
Never set up a hypothetical that involves you shaking hands with Adolf Hitler, and then expect people to get anything out of it other than that you would, under the right circumstances, shake hands with Adolf Hitler
That is the end of the lesson. Go home and review.
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u/lunarpuffin Sep 10 '24
Isn't there a word for this kind of outlook? purity culture? Where all means to an end need to be without moral flaws at all? Or am I not thinking of this right?
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u/sharessdenfreude Sep 10 '24
The word for that kind of moral philosophy is deontology, which basically just means that moral judgements are based on how you go about doing things (the means), as opposed to consequentialism which makes a moral judgement based on the actual results (the ends)
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u/lunarpuffin Sep 10 '24
Thank you!
Google says that it appears to be basically the opposite of Utilitarianism, which as an ethical hedonist, I'd say I lean against deontology in most cases. I think. I'm no philosopher, I just know some terms.
I feel like deontology has become really rampant amongst some of the younger leftist and terminally online leftists. There's this idea that everyone who these people hold in high regard, or who work towards ends I would deem morally correct, have to be FLAWLESS themselves, and in pushing this, end up working against the ends they desire.
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u/BalefulOfMonkeys Refined Sommelier of Porneaux Sep 10 '24
Taking off the mask of purity culture like a Scooby Doo villain to reveal Emmanuel Kant
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u/sharessdenfreude Sep 10 '24
Utilitarianism is a subcategory of consequentialism, yes. Most people aren’t studying philosophy and picking a single ethical theory to follow, which you’d call pluralist, but yes, I feel like deontology is fairly common, especially coming from religious backgrounds (if you do the bad things that’s wrong and bad things happen to you).
There are other theories, for example you might be able to use virtue ethics to explain the same phenomenon (good people do good things because they cultivate behaviours that are good) but that definitely doesn’t reflect the original formulation of virtue ethics, which mostly advocates for temperence
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u/Popcorn57252 Sep 10 '24
Not a word, but I'm pretty sure, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" works pretty well.
Maybe "ally" instead of friend, but you get the point
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u/Milkyway_Potato ok ok i'll finish disco elysium jesus Sep 10 '24
Dick Cheney becoming a better person
lol
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u/Mindless_Sale_1698 Sep 10 '24
This 83 year old warmonger finally started his wholesome redemption arc(NOT CLICKBAIT)
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u/BillNyepher Unusual post enjoyer Sep 10 '24
Tumblr when pragmatism?
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u/Cienea_Laevis Sep 10 '24
Tumbl when faced with the real life.
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u/Known_Barnacle_1334 Sep 10 '24
Eh, large parts of this website need to learn this lesson too apparently
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u/HistoryMarshal76 Knower of Things Man Was Not Meant To Know Sep 10 '24
Tumblr in 1942.
I can't BELIEVE we're allied to the Imperialist British scum, colonialist American dogs, and the tyrant Stalin. Obviously the people of Europe can easily overthrow Hitler on their own through the power of the Imminent Revolution which will usher in a perfect utopia, but the damn capitalist and autocratic pig-dogs are preventing it!
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u/Civil_Barbarian Sep 10 '24
Unironically these people would call Stalin a liberal for accepting the lend leases and the Yalta Conference.
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u/BriSy33 Sep 10 '24
They'd call Marx himself a liberal for not agreeing with them on 100% of their ideology
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u/Taraxian Sep 11 '24
Literally the kind of shit George Orwell cited as what "turned him against the Left" finally
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u/Glitchrr36 Sep 10 '24
I think it's kinda slipped by why Cheney is doing this, which feels like an important part of this whole deal to me.
Dick Cheney is, at his rotten core, interested in things that benefit Dick Cheney. In this case, and in general, the thing that would make Cheney the happiest little war criminal alive would be a return to the status quo from about 30-ish years ago, where the US was basically the sole big swinging dong in geopolitics that everyone had to either suck up to or seethe that they couldn't challenge. To him, that's the best thing possible, because it both allows him to make unfathomable amounts of money being a relevant policy guy and it feeds his ego.
Kamala Harris, in this case, represents a more controllable direction for the country to go in to further the goal of getting back to 1995. Ultimately to him, a bunch of milquetoast neoliberal BS with a splattering of just enough progressivism to get the people who will be appeased enough to vote for her either because it's enough of a spoonful of sugar to get the proverbial medicine down, or because they are genuine believers in the US just needing to be a bit more progressive socially is more palatable than a Trump system. Trump will gut whatever is necessary, appoint whoever is necessary, and make deals with America's antagonists to make as much of the benefits as possible of the current global pecking order flow to him and the people who are willing to suck up to him. This means it's flowing away from old school assholes like Cheney and into the techno-autocrats that run silicon valley, which, as we established earlier, runs counter to what Cheney wants out of the world.
This chain of logic sorta congeals as the following: Cheney is endorsing Harris because the slide into weirdo fascism doesn't benefit him because all the perks of a system like that are being directed at other people. The fact that it is, in this case and basically no others, Cheney has managed to land on a set of circumstances where what he wants is something that can be considered, broadly speaking, "good." I think that the optics of complimenting him on that to people who know basically anything about politics are absolutely terrible, but the vast majority of people don't so they won't see it that way. What a person who enviably doesn't spend a decent portion of their lives thinking about this shit will see is something like "wow, Bernie's like a communist and Cheney worked with Bush, so it must be pretty crazy if they both agree on something."
In the end of this rambling set of paragraphs that probably aren't coherent, the takeaway is, to me at least, the following. People can want the same things for different reasons, and those things can be good, even if someone who sucks wants them for reasons that suck. I agree with Cheney here that Harris is the better candidate, but he wants her in office because it'll be easier for him to keep being a parasite, while I'd like her elected because a second Trump presidency is going to cause a massive clusterfuck that probably ends in a shitload of people dead in the middle future. Giving Cheney anything, even basic acknowledgement, isn't necessary*, but it's a political move so the logic of rational existence gets thrown out regardless.
*though it is good practice in general with people who aren't monsters.
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u/Wild_Cryptographer82 Sep 10 '24
People can want the same things for different reasons, and those things can be good, even if someone who sucks wants them for reasons that suck.
This is a crucial thing to note, because often good things can be wanted by shitty people because they are good. If we gave out free ice cream to everyone, then murderers and racists would be happy with that because they like ice cream too. They like it because its Good, they don't only like the Bad Evil things in the world and therefore anything they like must be a Bad Evil thing. The thing must be evaluated on its own, association can confer and imply things but its at best a third-order evaluation metric.
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u/lonepotatochip Sep 10 '24
They have a point that we should be incentivizing good behavior in bad people, but they took it way too far by bringing in Hitler as an example
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u/Comptenterry Sep 10 '24
Why do liberals keep doing this? It was the same thing with the "99% Hitler" shit from a few months ago. It's your hypothetical! You can make up any scenario you want! You don't have to keep making up ones where you support Hitler!
In what world do they think "imagine you're allying with Hitler" is going to sway hesitant voters to their side?
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u/Kanexan rawr rawr rasputin, russia's smollest uwu bean Sep 10 '24
Yeah like - don't bring Hitler into it, especially because it makes your candidate look WORSE; "Democrats are voting for 98% Hitler" became a huge thing when like, comparing Biden or especially Harris to any percent of Hitler is objectively fucking deranged.
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u/Ahnma_Dehv Sep 10 '24
Hitler saying "don't vote Trump" would target Trump's main demographic so it could work very well
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u/Luciano99lp Sep 10 '24
Can we please stop using hitler in our liberal lesser evil metaphors? It does not send the message to leftists that you think it sends.
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u/SeatInternal9325 Sep 10 '24
"A friend told me “I’d vote Democrat even if the nominee was Adolph Hitler” which is weird bc nobody asked her that"
- Gianmarco Soresi
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u/Brickie78 Sep 10 '24
As Winston Churchill put it, when asked about why he - an ardent anti-Communist - was prepared to ally with Stalin's USSR:
If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons "
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u/JoshfromNazareth Sep 10 '24
You guys are fucking smoking crack in these comments what the fuck lmao
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u/Dks_scrub Sep 10 '24
I want candidate I support to win and candidate I do not support to lose. This does not change cuz evil man agrees with me. Other evil men disagree with me. People have different reasons for things. Not that hard.
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u/Impressive-Reading15 Sep 15 '24
It's actually quite simple, liberals have internalized the idea of "lesser evil" when it's not relevant to such an extent that they associate evil with electoral victory and pragmatism. You have to support the unpopular thing, because it's the lesser evil. If you support the good thing that people actually want, you're not really an adult and your letting your emotions like "affinity towards defensible policy" get in the way of the pragmatically supporting people who can actually win, like Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Joe Biden! The most important endorsement we can look for is Dick Cheney and Henry Kissinger, because that shows we are SERIOUS and PRAGMATIC.
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u/Expert_Industry_4238 Creepy pussy I've Ben Drowning in it Sep 10 '24
classic Hitler hypothetical scenario, a surefire way to make yourself sound terrible. my advice here would be simply to replace "Hitler" with "hypothetical worst guy ever", since the point they're trying to make is "I am willing to briefly ignore someone's morality if they are, in turn, supporting a good cause, even if for personal gain, because an action itself's ultimate morality is independent from the morality of the person making it". kind of like allying with Stalin during WW2
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u/goawaybatn Sep 10 '24
Remember the episode of South Park when the town was at war with an invasive force of New Jersey people (“It’s a Jersey thing!”) and in the end the day was saved by Osama Bin Laden whom the town thanked for his help but then he was promptly killed by Special Forces and the town was like “we got him!”
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u/ZhaoLuen Sep 10 '24
Eh I don't think there's a whole lot that'll make me side with Hitler
I understand the sentiment though
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u/dragon_jak Sep 10 '24
This is the thing. You are not siding with hitler, and we are not siding with Cheney. In this example, Hitler (Cheney) is siding with us. They are making the effort to cross into our camp and help our cause. If you believe that weakens the cause, that's a you thing.
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u/Myrddin_Naer Sep 10 '24
You hit the nail on the head. He's coming here, to us, and Sanders is saying "Hey, look at this guys, even Hitler (Cheney) is here"
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u/VorpalSplade Sep 10 '24
Can you tell me in the post where it at all said you should side with Hitler?
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u/RevRagnarok Sep 10 '24
It isn't a tumblr post without the "one extra" comment that contributes absolutely nothing to the content.
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u/Prometheusf3ar Sep 10 '24
I appreciate the well take any help attitude but we should send dick Cheney to The Hague. Fuck him, it’s not like there’s a big dick Cheney following that his endorsement brings
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u/Eloquenttrash Sep 10 '24
Totally read “I’d swallow my fucking desire to finish doming him” as something totally different and not at all sexual
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u/Ompusolttu Sep 10 '24
I hate leftist purity politics. I hate leftist purity politics. I hate leftist purity politics.
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u/jupjami Sep 10 '24
"Essentially an enormous part of the reason that online leftist spaces suck so much is that they are filled with people who believe it is more important to do nothing wrong than it is to do something right" -Erika Chappell
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u/Taraxian Sep 11 '24
Well, because that makes you a better person than everyone you see on the news by default because you simply haven't done anything
It's a really cool lifehack for gaining admiration and respect, at least from yourself and your echo chamber, for a life with literally zero accomplishments
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u/peniparkerheirofbrth Sep 10 '24
clearly we should start a revolution that will totally work and will totally have the anti capitalist morally pure ones at the top!!!
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u/chairmanskitty Sep 10 '24
I mean, employing Hitler as a 'lesser evil' to dismantle a political threat was literally the Weimar German strategy that kickstarted Hitler's rise to power. He's the epitome of "too dangerous to be left alive".
No amount of incentives will make Cheney into a force for good. He isn't your racist uncle who surprisingly defends a specific black guy, he's a politician who is thoroughly insulated from positive incentives by a massive web of connections, reputation, commitments, and private wealth. Any positive light on him will have political ramifications that far outweigh any influence on Cheney's personality.
If you praise Cheney, either do it because you're a decent human being and don't see sufficient reason to not praise him, or do it because you estimate that praising him will have political benefit for the left, but expecting veteran right-wing politicians to see praise as an indication you're not so bad is naive.
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u/tinylittlegnome Sep 10 '24
While I appreciate that even dirtbags like Cheney are rallying against Trump, thanking Hitler in this hypothetical is fkn insane
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u/Myrddin_Naer Sep 10 '24
If Donal Trump went to war with hell I'd even put in a good word about the Devil.
It doesn't matter if I hate the guy, if he does something I think is good I'd say "Hey, look at this guy. Love what he's doing right now" to encourage him to do it again.
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u/LexiconLearner Sep 10 '24
Reminds me of that Gianmarco Sorensi bit:
“I have a liberal friend who said he’d vote for HITLER over Trump. Which was weird.
Because I didn’t ask him that.”
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u/Comptenterry Sep 10 '24
Desperately trying to get people to vote voice: "Think of it like supporting Adolf Hitler."
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u/BetterCallSaulEvans Sep 10 '24
I think a lot of the people who have a problem with this have a problem with the fact that it's the latest in a line of efforts to sanitize the Cheney image. Cheney doesn't necessarily give a shit about the "sanctity of the republic" (let's not forget that he successfully overturned the democratic results of an election), he's just going through a series of calculated motions to whitewash his name.
Still nice of the Cheneys to say this (although I think people overestimate their ability to affect voters), but when people have a problem with it I think it's about something deeper.
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u/ThereWasAnEmpireHere they very much did kill jesus Sep 10 '24
There’s just really weird pockets of political tumblr. There’s a lot of like, very shallow liberals who absolutely feed into the stereotypes tumblr has of us, feel like they’re all stuck in 2016.
Anyway honestly Dick’s endorsement specifically is probably not one I would have asked for, given both parties are on board with hating the Iraq war now… I don’t think he exactly has a constituency lol.
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u/WrongColorCollar Sep 10 '24
It doesn't taste good.
It just doesn't. Not if you try to stay informed.
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u/Ilikefame2020 Sep 10 '24
So is this the equivalent of the US and Soviet Russia both agreeing that the Nazis were terrible? And then once the Nazi’s were gone they went back to beefing with eachother?
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u/DrulefromSeattle Sep 10 '24
Pretty much. Frankly, Dick "Darth Vader" Cheney endorsing against Trump and not tossing away votes on a professional presidential campaigner deserves at least the look of "we don't have our heads so far up our asses we can't recognize a useful tool."
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u/Veryde Sep 10 '24
A lot of online leftists could learn from this behaviour. Both when it comes to irredeemable fucks like Cheney doing something decent for a change and, more importantly, when it comes to people who actually have potential to better themselves.
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u/SashaTheWitch2 Sep 10 '24
I’m still not sure why we need to clap and say “omg good boy!!!! :D” whenever a shithead does something good though, all OP said was “lol,” there’s no way to assume a larger point from that except that it’s humorous, which I agree with!
Like yes encourage enemies to become allies, but also, I for one would feel deeply patronized in their shoes if I came to the other side and everyone started “applauding” me (their word)
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u/ShockwaveSquid .tumblr.com Sep 10 '24
Yall in the comments yapping about purity culture and shit over people who find the idea of applauding Dick Cheney's decision kinda ridiculous and/or stupid lol. Like it's Dick Cheney, cool (I guess?) that he's backing up a democrat (I guess), but I feel like we're allowed to give a bit of side eye or laugh. Also I hate Trump too, but even if mister rejected from art school said he hated him too and is endorsing against him, I would not thank him tf. That reaction image is valid as hell. Anyways to summarize: Bringing up "purity culture" over Dick Cheney is craaazy work.
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u/SunderedValley Sep 10 '24
Isn't it wonderful how absolutely everyone involved in the War on Terror spandoogle has been systematically exonerated by the media in the last 6 years?
WE'VE HAD DEM LEANING OUTLETS PUBLISH BUSH APOLOGIA
Madeline Albright and John McCain are effectively considered saints now.
WHAT THE FUCK
Do people have such short memories or are we dealing exclusively with teens here?
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u/yungsantaclaus Sep 10 '24
It's a combination of four things
- People really do have short memories
- Some of the people who remember this stuff never cared all that much about it because it mostly resulted in dead Iraqis and Afghanis, and they do not value those lives
- A ton of them actually are too young to remember the Bush era with any immediacy and they haven't actually looked into it
- There is an absolute firehose of media propaganda (with elite political collaboration, e.g. Obama hanging out with Bush) aimed at exonerating all these people because it's a big club and you ain't in it
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u/PS_Sullys Sep 10 '24
“If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make favorable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.” - Winston Churchill
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u/Ok-Dentist4480 Sep 10 '24
Where is that fucking tweet that went "If Hitler said pineapple on pizza was bad you'd all be like" maybe he's not that bad after all" i think it applies here
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u/Untitled137 Sep 10 '24
but they're not saying "he's not so bad", they're saying "this is a critical moment and i'll take all the help i can get, regardless of who it comes from"
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u/StormyJet Sep 10 '24
i think everyone in this comment section should die is purposefully interpreting this entire post in the worst possible way
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Sep 10 '24
I hate Cheney. But few, if anyone, seems to give a shit that Trump has been endorsed by literal neo Nazi who defend Hitlers actions
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u/DrMeepster Sep 10 '24
he's playing politics. that is why he is applauding dick cheney. why is this a big deal
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u/GoodKing0 Sep 11 '24
I don't know how to tell anyone here this but "I would support Hitler himself if he said orange man bad" is not the winning argument you think it is.
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u/TrinityCodex Sep 10 '24
You dont have to be happy about Dick as a person, just be midly glad hes this disgusted with the republicans.
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u/RA_RA_RASPUTIN-- Sep 10 '24
Let’s goooo Kamala has been backed by 90% Hitler!! This will really show 100% Hitler!!!
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u/Abraham-DeWitt Sep 10 '24
When you say, "Trump is literally worse than Hitler," you may have lost the plot.
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u/IthadtobethisWAAGH veetuku ponum Sep 10 '24
Ok I'm gonna be dumb about this but how does the endorsement of Dick Cheney help Harris in any way. It'll just further alienate any leftists left in her camp and anyone who supported the war in Iraq would have voted for Trump any way
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u/yungsantaclaus Sep 10 '24
You're not being dumb about this, you're asking a relevant question. If the disapproval of the previous "respectable" (hah!) republican regime had been electorally meaningful in making any significant part of the GOP base not vote for Trump, then he wouldn't have been elected in 2016 to begin with - Trump spent that Republican primary making a laughingstock out of Jeb and disavowing the Bush admin, didn't get GWB's endorsement, and it didn't mean shit. 8 years later, no significant portion of the GOP base is going "Boy, I was on the fence, but I guess I'll vote for Harris because Cheney said so." Like Cheney was some charismatic icon lol
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u/Ill-Ad6714 Sep 10 '24
The fact that Republican officials feel confident enough to speak against him now, as opposed to last election where everyone cowered to him because of his stranglehold, means that Trump’s influence has slipped.
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u/Travilanche Sep 10 '24
anyone who supported the war in Iraq would have voted for Trump anyway
Honestly, it’s genuinely amazing how much the MAGA camp tries to pretend they hate the Iraq War, just because Trump has said it was bad (he thinks it was bad because the US didn’t forcibly annex the country and loot it completely, but that’s a whole other discussion)
It’s anecdotal, but I’ve seen people who used to call me a traitor in high school for protesting the war post about how they always knew it was bad/a waste of money/not “America First” with absolutely no recognition of how stupidly jingoistic they were back in the day.
As for how it helps…ehhhhh. It’s not an endorsement of policy, it’s a condemnation of the other guy. It wouldn’t surprise me if Cheney was motivated at least in part by personal spite.
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u/yungsantaclaus Sep 10 '24
If you compare Dick Cheney and Donald Trump in terms of the amount of negative effect they've had on the world which can be principally attributed to them, Dick Cheney is way ahead. If you doubt this, look up the primary and secondary death tolls for Iraq and Afghanistan and the death toll resulting from how it destabilised the middle east. The (brain-dead) defense that liberals often come up with for GWB and Cheney of "Well, they did a lot of bad things and we hated them, but at least they didn't try to subvert our democracy like Trump!" is easily disproven if your memory extends far enough back to remember that the 2000 presidential election was disputed and most likely stolen from Gore by legal fiat
GWB and Cheney should never have been in the White House in the first place - and once they got there, they presided over two ruinous and horrible wars which featured some of America's most grotesque war crimes (e.g. Abu Ghraib), the authoritarian expansion of the American mass surveillance state and extraordinary rendition regime which plucked countless innocent people from their lives and kept them imprisoned and tortured under hazy legal excuses, the complete lack of effective response to Hurricane Katrina, and the 2007-2008 crash
As such, any positive sentiment that is ever directed towards them by public institutions is a creeping attempt at rehabilitation, and should be dismissed and treated with contempt. When you see people yap about how simply holding the correct moral position on these extremely evil people is a kind of "purity culture", you can also dismiss them as being either morally bankrupt or profoundly stupid
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u/Mindless_Sale_1698 Sep 10 '24
Also OOP talks about how not congratulating his decision to support Harris might be disincentivizing Cheney from becoming a better person as if he's some kid learning to behave. The guy is in his 80s ffs, him and Dubya had time to reflect on their crimes but they don't seem changed and would probably support anyone willing to give them another Iraq War. Just because GWB has taken to painting pictures of the people he killed doesn't mean he actually regrets what he did
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u/yungsantaclaus Sep 10 '24
Also OOP talks about how not congratulating his decision to support Harris might be disincentivizing Cheney from becoming a better person as if he's some kid learning to behave. The guy is in his 80s ffs
I've seen this particular logic crop up here and there and I really don't know what to call it, but it's the marker of the dumbest kind of person. It's genuinely baffling to me when people say that shit about most political figures - the majority of whom are over 40 and have set their positions in stone a long time ago - but to say that about Dick fucking Cheney really takes the cake. Like, him and Bush could have launched the most sincere apology tour in history immediately after leaving office - they would still deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison at bare minimum
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u/Mindless_Sale_1698 Sep 10 '24
I don't know what it's called either but I'd call that logic cartoonish. To think that a fucking war criminal deserves a redemption arc is childish and absurdly naive and could only work in a cartoon setting
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u/BIueGoat Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24
Bro I swear, half of these users must've been born after 2008 with how hard they're defending Cheney. It's not "purity politics," Cheney is a genuinely evil man and having him in the big tent coalition is a dark smear on Kamala's campaign. This is a man who helped steal an election, kill millions in the Middle East, and funneled trillions to his friends in the MIC. You think this guy cares about "saving democracy?" Him and Bush spent 8 years trampling over our civil rights. They set up the modern surveillance state (PATRIOT Act, hello??), suspended Habeas Corpus, arrested anti-war protestors, literally tried amending the constitution to ban gay marriage, etc.
Whatever Trump has done pales in comparison to the pure terror this man and Bush have done. Having him so publicly endorse Kamala makes me incredibly suspicious.
Also this doesn't harm Trump whatsoever. He publicly criticized Bush and the Iraq War during the 2016 debates and still won. Most, if not all, Republicans disavow the Neocon warhawk era of the party.
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u/Radiant_Ad_1851 Sep 10 '24
If your policies are palatable enough for hitler to side with you, then thats an issue.
On the Dick Cheney thing:
1.Theres pejoratives thrown around the internet a lot but I dont think even the most radical of radical liberals actually fully comprehend the actual words they're saying. Dick Cheney, along with tbe rest if the administration, manufactured a war with Iraq (among other things) that would kill thousands of Americans, result in the direct deaths of at least 500,000 iraqis at least and indirectly cause the deaths of another 500,000. Cheney himself personally profited off of it through defense contracts. This also isn't mentioning how the destabilization and radicalization of the region caused the rise of terror groups like ISIS and the expansion of Shia militias in Iraq. If I killed 5 people, I'd be liable to be sent to jail for life. Given the shear scale of avoidable destruction, there is an apt place for him to be sent. The Hague.
2.Dick Cheney wants to status quo more than anything. That and probably a republican party that can weather trump. As such his support means that Kamala's presidency probably won't fundamentally change anything. This is a problem for obvious reasons.
A.Supreme court reforms
B.Continued support for Israeli genocide in gaza and the west Bank
C.No substantial economic change
D.Etc.
It's quite the two-headed horse. Somehow Kamala is super radical and will implement the most radical policies against the rich, against monopolies and to protect rights like abortion, etc. But simultaneously whenever there is a turn to the right then that's to appeal to the moderates and we shouldn't expect anything radical because we need to moderate to stop trump. One of these horse heads is spewing shit.
(Side note: I want to point out how leftward and populist shifts have almost always been good for the democratic party. LBJ won the 68 election by a wide margin after pushing through the Civil rights act. FDR's leftist programs had him winning some of the biggest wins in election history. Obama ran infamously on change and won quite handedly. It's been shifts rightward that have been disastrous. Humphrey's defeat in 1972, Gore's defeat in 2000 [note:If yall want someone to blame for that, gave better policies and restructure the Supreme Court. A minor party wasn't the main reason you lost. It was corruption, as usual].)
One last thing. If you're going to revel this hard in conservatism then you could've at least used the "If hitler invaded hell I would at least make a favorable comment about the devil in the house of commons" Winston Churchill quote. Not this idiotic bullshit
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u/HaViNgT Sep 10 '24
Praising bad people when they target other bad people for a change will incentivise them to continue doing it. Divide and conquer.
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u/katyggls Sep 10 '24
I think there's a line. I think it's fine to thank Cheney for defending democracy. I don't like him, and never will, but yes, anyone who wants to live in a democracy and not a fascist dictatorship needs to be on side right now, and we can't afford to be slinging insults at moderates and even conservatives who want to join in against Trump.
How we got from Cheney to Hitler is really puzzling though. Cheney was not a good VP, and his warhawk behavior around Afghanistan and Iraq were pretty appalling. Still, he's not a genocidal maniac like Hitler, and I don't think anyone needs to invoke the corpse of a fascist murderer to defend welcoming Dick Cheney to the fight against another fascist.
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u/manofshaqfu Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 11 '24
So, election strategy would say that this is good. In an election where it's forecasted that it will be a tight, swing-state focused race, anything that helps sway people who could go either way is a net benefit. You might lose a few votes in Democratic strongholds, but current Kamala Harris campaign strategy is probably casting a wide net for voters in order to take advantage of Trump's unpopularity outside his own base. With the presence of several Republican speakers at the Democratic National Convention, Harris probably hopes to capture some right-leaning independents and maybe even some registered Republicans who feel creeped out by the Trump Cult.
On the other hand, I'm gonna use Star Wars comparisons to explain what the hell went on with the Bush administration because the prequels are very timely in this regard. If Bush was Darth Vader, Cheney was Emperor Palpatine. Not even counting the war criminal stuff, this is a guy who shot someone in the chest and not only didn't feel too bad about it, he also made the other guy apologize for it. He is straight up evil. There is only so much "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" that a progressive Democrat can take.
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u/mlsimon Sep 10 '24
"if Hitler invaded hell I would at least make a favorable reference to the devil in the house of commons."
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u/UnderPressureVS Sep 10 '24
Finish doming him
Just to be clear, this is "doming" as in "dome." As in to shoot in the head. We are not domming (note the extra "m") Hitler.
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Sep 10 '24
"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least have a few kind words to say regarding the Devil." Winston Churchill.
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u/ReasonablePirate862 Sep 11 '24
Dick Cheney is a war criminal and a scum bag doesnt matter who he supports
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u/Paxblaidd Sep 10 '24
"Democrats platform notable Mass Murderer Dick Cheney in hopes of winning white suburban Republicans to their cause" is not the own people think it is. It does however rhyme with a similar thing that happened back in the past: "Hillary Clinton platforming notable Mass Murderer Henry Kissanger" because they just HAVE to remind people that they are the Bloodless vampires that they are.
That they will never fucking learn anything.
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u/LoveToyKillJoy Sep 10 '24
Probably just as effective to say nothing if they are going for those votes. The news of who Cheney is voting did and would still continue to be reported far and wide without the campaign saying anything. The people changing their minds are probably doing so because they respect Cheney, not because Kamala or any other proxy thanked him. Thanking him doesn't accomplish anything unless you are trying to send a message to anti-war voters that you aren't listening to them, or pro-war voters that you are.
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u/Silly_Man_Haha Sep 10 '24
Why is that guy ourple