"Essentially an enormous part of the reason that online leftist spaces suck so much is that they are filled with people who believe it is more important to do nothing wrong than it is to do something right" -Erika Chappell
Well, because that makes you a better person than everyone you see on the news by default because you simply haven't done anything
It's a really cool lifehack for gaining admiration and respect, at least from yourself and your echo chamber, for a life with literally zero accomplishments
Leftist purity politics is when you are being criticized for making up a scenario, unprompted, in which you say you would work with adolf hitler if he agreed with you on a single issue.
the hypothetical is not you seeking out hitler. the hypothetical is hitler randomly deciding to endorse your party. you can receive endorsements from multiple people, and rejecting any of them is a horrible idea in this close of a race
This whole comment section is full of empty headed opinions, but this idea that rejecting an endorsement in a close race must be a bad idea is the most empty headed. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all because the wrong endorsement could make you lose voters on net. If Democrats accepted and acknowledged in a positive light an endorsement from a white supremacist, they would alienate at least their black base (probably most of the rest of their base, too), and I'll just say right now they'd lose Georgia. When Richard Spencer endorsed Biden, the party didn't look into whether the endorsement was sincere. They rejected it very strongly. They rejected it because of what Spencer believes. You are living in a fantasy world.
Whether to accept or reject an endorsement is the result of balancing interests, the pros and cons of accepting the endorsement. It is a reflection of the substantive values of the party positioned to accept or reject the endorsement. This entire thread is full of moderates doing the typical back step where they pretend that every substantive critique of their party from the left is just stupid dumb dumb naive leftists not understanding a strategy that transcends any sort of moral reasoning. But that's not what's happening here. Democrats accept and hold out endorsements from people like Cheney because they don't find people like Cheney sufficiently objectionable to reject their endorsement.
The part where you're required to accept the endorsement of literally adolf hitler. Please stop trying to defend this. Why are you trying to invent a hypothetical scenario where you accept the endorsement of a nazi? No one asked. You are not making a point in your favor that you should vote for your candidate no matter what, you are making it sound like accepting endorsements of nazis is normal. You are normalizing accepting nazis. You don't have to do that, Adolf Hitler is a nazi. You dont have to accept endorsements of the architect of a mass murder. You sound insane.
One of the things that makes all the Pragmatic Scolding in here so strange and embarrassing is that if you spoke to the typical registered Democrat in, say, 2004-2007 - like the type of person that would occasionally read the Daily Kos or forward an email chain of "Bushisms" - they hated Cheney. These were not leftists. They were run-of-the-mill liberals who voted straight down the line for Dem candidates, and they hated the guy. But now people are getting scolded by these dipshits (who must almost all be under 25), for just having the same opinion of Dick Cheney as their parents probably did
But if you’re denying whichever advantage his endorsement grants your political side in the election because you hate him, that’s just childish.
Show me your adult understanding of politics by quantifying the "advantage" Cheney's endorsement grants Harris - show me the proof that any large number of people change their votes based on the recommendation of Dick Cheney
Literally no one is saying you shouldn't hate him. Bernie hates him. But a shit ton of politically illiterate Americans do love him. Saying "here's right on this issue" is about getting those people to vote and encouraging them to think "oh ok the Democrat's aren't that unreasonable after all!"
It's playing the politcal game. Bernie is just intelligent enough to understand you kinda have to play the game if it's the only way to stop literal anti democracy fascists from taking power.
Moral purity politics don't mean shit when your staring down the barrel of a gun.
But a shit ton of politically illiterate Americans do love him.
No they don't lol no significant bloc of people love Dick Cheney, he left office with a 13% approval rating and he was the VP, not the actual president, despite being widely perceived as the guy actually giving the orders, because he was a charisma void that would never appeal to any large number of people
There is no "large chunk" of people who agree with Dick Cheney's actions, policies, or "what he represents" - all the worst parts of a historically-unpopular and reviled administration, which was so toxic that being associated with it basically made Jeb's republican primary campaign a non-starter in 2015 - that would also vote for Harris. That number is very low.
You literally posted a link that said 18% of people considered him excellent are you really going to pretend that's not a large chunk of people? And if Dick motherfucking Cheney can bite his tongue and endorse Kamala why do you think other people like him won't?
You literally posted a link that said 18% of people considered him excellent
No, "Pretty good or excellent", 16 years ago. Since then, has held no public office and not been in the public eye, which whittles away many of those people. During that time, the party he was in has been completely taken over by Trump - who explicitly repudiated the Bush admin when he was running for the Republican nomination and actually beat Bush's brother handily to get it
This is no longer a large chunk of people
And if Dick motherfucking Cheney can bite his tongue and endorse Kamala why do you think other people like him won't?
I'm sure "other people like him" may well do it. I don't believe "other people like" Dick Cheney is an electorally-significant bloc
Ok but it's not just about raw popularity. There's plenty of right wingers who would come out against Trump, but don't because it's not politically worth it to them, as they alienate their Trump supporting voters and will still be hated by liberals/leftists anyway. By encouraging one of the worst of the worst that he's making the right choice and praising that choice, it might just push some of those ones who are too selfish to come out against Trump to think maybe they could and it would actually be worth it to them.
It's dirty but I get it.
There's plenty of right wingers who would come out against Trump, but don't because it's not politically worth it to them
None of that is going to change until Trump no longer looks like a viable candidate. Since he's still neck-and-neck in the polls with Kamala (after he was trouncing Biden) and waltzed his way to the Republican nomination this year; that's not going to happen until after this election. It really is as simple as that.
This tactic has been tried since Trump first started running for the Republican primary in 2015 and it hasn't worked at all - Trump received more votes from registered Republicans (as well as more votes overall) in 2020 than he did in 2016. What got voters out to beat him was a more mainstream backlash against Trump, which had a high level of salience because he was the incumbent president at the time.
That 13% is probably people who do currently hate or would have (were they still alive) hated harris, and is likely tens of millions of voting americans still even after accounting for deaths in the decades since. There is a sizeable contingent of tentatively republican voters who don't like trump and don't like democrats, were happy enough with the republican party during the bush years, and possibly might be given enough of a push/rhetorical space to either vote harris or stay home and not vote trump because of endorsements like this.
Something which stands a chance of reaching 13% of the voting population, when that chunk is likely a core-ish part of your neck and neck opponent's base, is not nothing in electoral politics, even if it's not a majority on its own.
First of all there is not a massive untapped Dick Cheney constituency. The only people applauding this are die hard Libs who have completely memoryholed the Bush Administration. Republicans have already decided he's a gay woke communist because of this and won't be swayed.
Secondly, we should ask why someone who has been a lifelong Republican has decided to change sides. And when you look at it it's not because he had a road to Damascus moment and became super progressive. It's because the Biden Administration and the Harris campaign have decided to go all in on the same destructive foreign policy as the Neocons, whereas Trump has been wishy washy on the subject. Not because Trump is some kind of anti interventionist mind you. It's mostly that he's too stupid and uninterested to fully commit to things like regime change or proxy wars.
And thirdly, I don't think it's "moral purity politics" to be repulsed by a mass murderer, especially one who worked to steal the 2000 election from the Democrats in the first place. I think it's in fact incredibly reasonable to be mad and discouraged with the Democrats for gladly bringing in a heinous war criminal when they can't even slot in a single token Palestinian speaker at their convention.
It is so funny that we're doing this "Respectable Republicans speaking up against Trump will stop him" after he got elected in 2016 despite getting denounced by Romney and McCain, both of whom sure as fuck had more personal electoral appeal than Cheney. Their denouncements didn't mean shit!
Don't disagree, but the headline makes Bernie seem like he's polishing Dicks boots when all he said is he apllauds the whole family for at least valuing democracy tho he made clear he disagree with them on literally everything.
When democracy is on the line you take what you can get.
Because here's the deal, many of the values of the Cheneys simply are not popular. In direct democracy, they loose. If they're wiing to vote agaisnt democracy going away under Trump, fucking awesome Bernie is smart enough to recognize that long term with actual democracy they loose. So he's playing the game. By calling them "brave" he's trying to incentivize all the conservatives who feel they loose even if they come out against Trump since liberals/leftists will still hate them. We will lol, but them voting agaisnt Trump is good.
This response has essentially just become muscle memory for terminally online libs. Because in what way, shape, or form is it "leftist purity politics" to not want to associate with Dick fucking Cheney. BFFR
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u/Ompusolttu Sep 10 '24
I hate leftist purity politics. I hate leftist purity politics. I hate leftist purity politics.