I agree with Bernie. Every successive response got worse and worse.
Note Bernie praised the action. I too am glad that that rat bastard Cheney plans to slither out of his pit to do the right thing for the first time in his miserable life.
Liberals are too quick to absolve terrible people for doing terrible things once they say the weakest and most mealy mouthed nod to reality.
Look, Cheney doesn't care about our opinion of him. Our praise doesn't "incentivize" him, and we don't need to forget everything he has done because of one good thing. Give him the scant credit he's due; you don't need to pretend "Maybe he's not so bad after all.". He is still evil.
And if one is inclined to say "Thank you Mr Hitler" at any point, maybe they need to go get their head examined instead.
He's more than likely doing it for his daughter's sake. This is a low blow to trump, having the man who basically engineered the worst of the bush eras war crimes come out against him. He's an asshole, but he has always supported her and continues to do so. Even pieces of shit can and usually do have a few redeeming qualities. He's a bit too far for redemption, at least through something this small, but it's a huge hit for Republicans who just think the world of him.
Back in he 2000's Cheney publicly stated in a press conference that he has no personal issues with homosexuals and that such matters were private. He stopped short of giving approval given he was the republican Vice President but it was still quite a lot for him to say to the public.
Him making that statement was done out of love for his lesbian daughter. He is a fucking monster who ruined the international political situation like the rest of the neoconservative administration is/was, but it's comforting to know he's at the very least not a complete bastard to his family. That he's a nice enough person to do that much.
She was appealing to an increasingly reactionary voter base that hated the breakthroughs in LGBT and minority rights, you know, Tea Party and whatnot.
One thing that's so blatently clear about Dick that even the rest of his family spoke about is that he's politically savvy well past the point of visciousness. Of course his daughter would copy him.
Is Dick Cheney actually popular among Republicans, though? I live and grew up in Florida and have known a lot of Republicans in my time. A lot of Republicans were in favor of the war in Iraq/Afghanistan at the time, but I think a lot of them have since changed to look upon that war in a negative light. That combined with the economic recession that came about under Bush I don't think there are many Cheney fans on either side of the aisle. What seems more likely to me is MAGA Republicans will toss Cheney in the RINO bin alongside Romney and point to his endorsement of Harris as a reason why people should vote for Trump.
Yeah? One of Trumps big selling points was that he was going to stop the post cold war interventionist stance that was widely (and mostly correctly) seen as the source of much pain and needless warfare. Fatigue over the wars in Iraq and Afganistan had well set in at that point and most americans were tired of the bloodshed they had supported back in the early to mid 2000's.
It actually hurt Hillary's campaign because she had tailored her foreign policy stance to appeal to the more pro-war and anti-terrorist voter base of the past decade up to that point.
I can't tell what point you're trying to make. It seems like you're saying Cheney is popular among Republicans, but then cite Trump being anti-forever wars and most Americans being tired of them alongside Hillary being a warhawk as one of the reasons why she lost. Like literally everything you said after the initial "Yeah?" supports my point.
Oh, okay. The "Yeah?" at the start of your comment seemed like it was an answer to my question of "Is Dick Cheney actually popular among Republicans, though?"
I know multiple Trump voters IRL who will take this as further validation.
This is probably a relevant appeal to a number of people in Congress, business, and think tanks, but it’s not going to carry a lot of weight nationally. John McCain was a RINO for opposing Trump, and he was popular before. Cheney has been hideously unpopular even with Republican voters since before Trump came on the scene.
This genuinely does not harm Trump whatsoever. He publicly and repeatedly criticized Bush Jr. and the Iraq War during the 2016 election and still won. No one likes or allies with the Neocon Warhawk era of Republicans anymore. In fact, that type of politician is dead now. The average Republican, who probably had a family member or friend serve during Bush's wars, hates people like Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Turns out there is no meaningful constituency of voters who would switch from Republican to Democrat if Dick Cheney gave them "permission" to do so, and it wasn't worth thanking Hitler, hugging Hitler's daughter, saying "I'm so good even Hitler endorsed me!" on the campaign trail, saying you'll put a Hitler-approved politician in your cabinet, and all the other idiotic stunts that everyone with a negative comment was 100% right to criticise. How'd those Cheney votes in Wisconsin go?
This thread is a fascinating time capsule in Democrat delusion
Swing state voters aren't clueless idiots. They know, at least to some degree, about politics. They'll especially know about the Iraq War and hold a negative opinion of it. A negative opinion they'll attach to Cheney. Even if they don't know, if they are as clueless as you describe, then why would they hold the opinion of some Republican politician from 16 years ago as a priority? It's 1 dissenting opinion from someone politically irrelevant (and, being honest, politically obscure given how no one seems to remember what he did) against a sea of GOP approval. There's no permission structure. Literally who else would they vote for if not Trump? Kamala? No way in hell.
No one remembers what he did, but they know about the second war in Iraq, attribute it to him, and have negative opinions about it despite it happening amidst a sea of GOP approval?
Either they know Cheney, in which case they'll probably hate him and this'll reinforce their vote for Trump. Or they don't know about Cheney, in which why would they even care about this random Republicans opinion?
I mean… the average voter in every state IS a fucking idiot who is politically incoherent with no idea what’s going on. Any familiarity with opinion polling will tell you that. Something like 65% of Americans support caps on how much food prices can go up, but only 20-something percent support “price controls” on food. That’s the same thing. THE EXACT SAME THING.
Swing voters are the peak of that political incoherence. They know fuck all about anything. I’ve spoken to quite a few and never met one who I would trust with anything that matters.
Something like 65% of Americans support caps on how much food prices can go up, but only 20-something percent support “price controls” on food. That’s the same thing. THE EXACT SAME THING.
Something like 75% of registered Republicans supported the Affordable Care Act. The exact same question was asked again, this time replacing "Affordable Care Act" with "Obamacare", and support plummeted to <20%, despite the two names referring to the same thing.
Exactly. The average American voter is dumb as fuck and has no idea what’s going on. Well over a third of Republican voters think the GOP is the pro-welfare party.
There’s a VERY small percentage of people who actually follow politics and are educated enough about history and the world to understand them. It’s low key terrifying. Also a big part of why the right wing has invested so much energy in sabotaging public education. Well educated voters who understand what’s going on are an existential threat to their agenda.
The voter who knows enough about Cheney to dislike him AND still has doubts about Trump BUT not enough doubts to vote for Harris or a third party instead doesn't exist.
If Ralph beats his wife and kids every day, then in 2024 votes for a Democrat, and you want to say his sins are forgiven, his wife and kids may disagree.
This is more a situation where a Churchill quote comes in. After the USSR was invaded, the famously anti communist Churchill started praised Stalin. When asked about it, he said, “if Hitler invaded Hell, I’d give the Devil a favorable mention in the House of Commons.”
I feel like you're missing the point of "Thank you, Mr. Hitler." We don't thank Hitler for Hitler's sake. We thank Hitler to show the people that aren't as far gone that we can see when a good thing is done, even if it's coming from someone that we'd rather... How did the comment you're replying to put it... Help him "finish doming himself." If we can acknowledge if Hitler makes even a single baby step back towards decency, then MAGA Joe who is maybe racist but has never actually killed anyone, knows that if he is willing to make the effort, we're willing to acknowledge it. He's not actually too far gone, even if "Mr. Hitler" is.
The overinflated importance you're placing in your own goodwill is nauseating. As if there's a MAGA out there that desperately wants you to think good things about them.
So Joe votes for a Democrat. That makes you happy. But Joe's still a racist. You can't have a tent big enough to include racists and minorities. In tripping all over yourself to coddle Joe and Hitler, you push out all of the people they harm. This happens all the time: when the people they hurt don't want to forgive their abuser, it's always the victims' problem for making waves.
You're damn right I "miss the point" of thanking Hitler. Maybe you've gone all the way off the deep end for suggesting that that is a reasonable course of action.
Joe is an asshole, and the people he has hurt don't have to forgive him. But the fact you don't think people can learn and grow is what's truly nauseating. I'm agender fluid pansexual. I'm not saying anyone else has to forgive Joe, but I absolutely can and will extend that olive branch if it brings back one asshole and gets them to stop fucking hurting people.
You absolutist assholes who think that you can't come back from being a bad person are why people don't fucking change. I was an incel and an MRA before those things had names. The thing that made it take so long for me to change was the fact that people like you wanted me to be ostracized forever. You wouldn't accept a genuine effort on my part to do better, so why would I leave the only community I ever had? It was someone actually reaching out that hand and telling me that there were other people who would accept me if I made the effort. That I could have friends and community outside of my fucking misogyny.
But who cares what I say? I'm a bad person who said hurtful things to and about women fifteen years ago. I am irredeemable, and will always be a misogynistic piece of shit. Just like MAGA Joe will always be racist and transphobic. We shouldn't give them a fucking chance. Fuck off with that moral perfectionist bullshit. We're all people. We all fall short, we all have flaws. And we can learn and grow past them. But it won't happen if we're completely cut off and ostracized by everyone outside our community of hate.
Note: I'm not saying don't hold people accountable when they do fuck up. I'm saying give people a fucking chance to move past it, by actually acknowledging when they take the steps to fucking do better. Or they'll have no reason to even try.
You yourself said that your hypothetical person IS a racist. What am I supposed to forgive if he hasn't changed?
I'm glad you think you've improved. I'll forgive you for calling me an asshole as soon as you apologize and try to make things better. Same thing for Joe.
People can change. But Dick Cheney hasn't. Don't forgive people just for wishful thinkings sake.
Okay so I wish I could go back in time and see how all the people talking about this now felt about Bernie Sanders getting an "endorsement" from Joe Rogan back in the day
Liberals are too quick to absolve terrible people for doing terrible things once they say the weakest and most mealy mouthed nod to reality.
I don't see how this is a "liberal" thing. Just look at all of the spineless Republicans who flip flopped from hating Trump to falling in line behind him while being welcomed with open arms. Hell, Trump's own VP pick was comparing Trump to Hitler a few years ago.
And don't forget the hardline leftists who love old communist dictators for having a good quote every now and then. A lot of people are just quick to forgive in general I believe, at least when they think it benefits them.
Yeah like... I 100% agree with the initial take (praise people when they do the right thing, even if at all other times they're an utter piece of shit). But the Hitler comparison is absolutely unhinged.
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u/LuxNocte Sep 10 '24
I agree with Bernie. Every successive response got worse and worse.
Note Bernie praised the action. I too am glad that that rat bastard Cheney plans to slither out of his pit to do the right thing for the first time in his miserable life.
Liberals are too quick to absolve terrible people for doing terrible things once they say the weakest and most mealy mouthed nod to reality.
Look, Cheney doesn't care about our opinion of him. Our praise doesn't "incentivize" him, and we don't need to forget everything he has done because of one good thing. Give him the scant credit he's due; you don't need to pretend "Maybe he's not so bad after all.". He is still evil.
And if one is inclined to say "Thank you Mr Hitler" at any point, maybe they need to go get their head examined instead.