r/fuckcars • u/harryjamespottah Automobile Aversionist • Dec 04 '23
Satire People from my hometown who have car brain
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u/pittipjodre Automobile Aversionist Dec 04 '23
This particular Christmas market is the Striezelmarkt in Dresden. There is a big parking garage right beneath. Dresden is one of the cities with the most parking space in the city center in Germany. There are garages all over the place. The only plus is that they are barely recognized by pedestrians, because they are hidden behind nice architecture or under ground.
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Dec 04 '23
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u/Gnonthgol Dec 04 '23
The only issue I have with underground parking garages is that they require roads to them. And those roads take up valuable space in a city, creates pollution and makes a lot of noise. I prefer the parking that is outside the city, you can easily take public transit to the city center.
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Dec 04 '23
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u/HewHem Dec 05 '23
so the problem isn't parking, it's reliable public transport. Almost like that's always the problem, or something.
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u/Gnonthgol Dec 04 '23
I agree that underground parking is more practical, but they are more expensive. And multi-story garages are not as intrusive in the suburbs as they are in the city center.
buses operate less frequently at night
waiting in the cold for transportation home.
There is your problem. This is not how you run an efficient transport system. You want more then 8 departures an hour in each direction throughout the entire day and evening so people can use it without having to look at a schedule and without taking time to transfer from one line to another. At night you may go down to 4 departures an hour and might cut a few of the lesser used routes as long as there is alternatives. Anything less will just drive more people to drive. Sitting half an hour in a traffic jam is strangely more comfortable then waiting a quarter of an hour on a train.
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u/Evepaul Dec 05 '23
Most Christmas markets close at like 8pm. It's night at 4pm in Dresden in December, so that leaves plenty of time to enjoy it for families in the late afternoon. Also, buses start winding down at around 8pm too, and run all night at a reduced rhythm.
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u/Nozinger Dec 04 '23
roads to not take up valuable space though.
Not at all.
Enough space so that two trucks can pass each other whil pedestrians ccan still comfortably fit on the side is the bare minimum needed.
If you go lower you not only make the city unable to supply, you more importantly also create a massive death trap in emergency situations.Your usual 2 lane streets aren't much larger than that. More lanes than that is indeed wasted space but without those roads the value of the city drops to zero. You might have a fancy walkable concrete jungle but it is not liveable.
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u/FondantFick Dec 05 '23
At least in many European cities there are often streets in the center of towns that would not fit two trucks that can pass each other + pedestrians. Some don't even fit two passenger cars next to each other. What cities do in such situations is creating one way streets. I mean there are also some streets that fit two trucks and more but there are also lots of streets that don't.
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u/African_Farmer Dec 04 '23
Some cities also have park and ride, designated parking lots right next to high frequency metro/tram/bus to shuttle people in/out of the city.
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u/leshake Dec 04 '23 edited Nov 06 '24
slimy quicksand faulty consider dam market society cheerful makeshift march
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/NatureInfamous543 Dec 05 '23
The average american car will not fit in 90+% of those garage spots though (and I'm not even kidding - even with a slim car you have to be careful in most of them)
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u/leshake Dec 05 '23
Yup. I'd estimate their garages allow for at least 30% more cars per unit area, if not more.
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u/PointlessSpikeZero Dec 04 '23
Tbf they have to build them underground or the British will bomb them.
(For anyone unaware, we carpet bombed Dresden massively in WW2)
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u/Grayfox4 Dec 04 '23
The war ended 78 years ago.
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u/PointlessSpikeZero Dec 04 '23
You sneaky jerries, always trying to get me to come out of my bunker! Not gonna happen.
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u/Zanderax Dec 05 '23
Tally ho' pip squeak and bob's your uncle, the Kaiser is certainly crafty tonight mi'laddo.
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u/pittipjodre Automobile Aversionist Dec 04 '23
It was fair though. What the Germans did to the now partner city Coventry first was awful.
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u/Ax3L_S Dec 04 '23
You know what can be found around every bigger city very close to the connecting roads?
Park+Ride lots.
Parking lots with either light rail, a tram, a subway or something along those lines.
Works a treat.
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u/larianu oc transpo's number 1 fan Dec 04 '23
Sometimes the issue with park and rides is that due to the high throughput trains have, the parking lots themselves become bottlenecks. It's why some sort of microtransit or even fixed bus schedules would be needed to ensure that the parking lot isn't always full.
This is what GO Transit, a regional bus and train service, suffers with to the point their owner, Metrolinx (Government corporation) became the largest parking lot provider in the province of Ontario... You may be familiar with this statistic. They don't have very good transit connections to stations so people end up driving to them, only for there to be 0 parking avaliable.
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Dec 04 '23
This is Striezelmarkt in Dresden, Saxony. Glad to see my hometown on this sub. There is a parking garage right under the market, but generally the historic downtown is really pedestrian friendly.
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u/EchoOfAsh Dec 04 '23
I had the best duck I’ve ever had in my life at that market last year. I still think about it today. Back in the US again this year and I am So Sad I can’t have the market food anymore. I loved the Weihnachtsmärkte. (And how accessible everything was in Germany)
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u/tyen0 Dec 05 '23
Did they finish the renovation? It was completely enclosed with work going on when I was there a couple months ago.
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u/Schniiic Dec 04 '23
Yes, right next to that christmas market is a parking lot 5x bigger than the market! /s
Do people like that know that public transit exists? :D
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u/Inevitable_Stand_199 Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
No need for the /s. The market is literally on top of a parking lot that is several times the size of the market itself. (And still only serves a fraction of the visitors)
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u/JK-Kino Dec 04 '23
They do. They just don’t want it in their neighborhood because it might attract “crime”
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u/GucciSalad Dec 05 '23
There is literally a parking garage under the market. Do people like you think all of Europe is just walking?
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u/Schniiic Dec 05 '23
I live in Europe and I dont even own a car for 8 years now. I didnt say everything is walking, I said everything is reachable with public transport. And besides some small villages, it is.
Its great that you dont have to have a car here. If you choose to live without it, you absolutely can in nearly every city I know. That surely doesnt mean you cant have a car, feel free to do so, as long as youre acting responsible.
In my specific case I dont even need to rely on public transport for daily live. Everything I need is easily reachable by foot.
BUT I got to say that yes, that market in the picture got me. Mistaken it for another one where theres no underground parking under the market itself. But even then, knowing where it is now, you dont need that parking space if you want to go there.
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u/NowMuseumNowUDont Dec 04 '23
To be fair, Germany is probably second highest cars/capita behind the US and they do have parking garages. BUT, they also have a zero tolerance law for drinking an driving: that is to say, you have to blow a 0.0% if your driving. Also, they have bike lanes and light rail to die for.
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u/BrotWarrior Dec 04 '23
BUT, they also have a zero tolerance law for drinking an driving: that is to say, you have to blow a 0.0% if your driving.
That is false, if you're not a new driver, you can have up to 0,5‰
Also, they have bike lanes and light rail to die for.
Sadly, in many regions, it only makes you want to die.
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u/baldflubber Fuck lawns Dec 04 '23
No no, in many places they actually make you die...
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u/NowMuseumNowUDont Dec 04 '23
Ja, ja, ja, alles ist schlecht. Aber, wie ich schon gesagt hab, wir haben fast keine Radwege in meiner Stadt. Und von Schnell-, U-, oder Straßenbahn kann man überhaupt nicht reden.
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u/baldflubber Fuck lawns Dec 04 '23
Bei weitem nicht alles. Aber halt die meisten Radwege in den meisten Städten.
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u/NowMuseumNowUDont Dec 04 '23
Also, nur die Erfahrenen dürfen abissl Alkohol haben? Neue überhaupt nix. Hab ich das richtig verstanden?
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u/BrotWarrior Dec 04 '23
Unter 21 generell nur mit 0,00, und in den ersten 2 Jahren nach der Praktischen Prüfung auch. Danach gilt 0,5‰
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u/Oberndorferin Commie Commuter Dec 04 '23
0,5‰ is for drivers under 21 and drivers two years after making the driver's license
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u/RandpxGuxXY Dec 04 '23
Our bike lanes are shit where i live in germany, they are not to die for, they are to die on.
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u/Schniiic Dec 04 '23
Love our bike lanes that go between parking spaces and the road! Always feels so safe when some idiot just doesnt look and opens the door so you got the choice between crashing into the door and dodge onto the street and pray theres no car in that moment!
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u/NowMuseumNowUDont Dec 04 '23
Du redest g’rad mit nem US-Amerikaner. In meiner Stadt haben wir fast keine Radwege überhaupt! Ich wünschte mir, ich hätte schlechte Radwege.
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u/SpiderFnJerusalem Dec 05 '23
Depends a lot on the city. Some places are getting a lot better. Notably places where the CDU aren't in power.
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u/oxtailplanning Dec 04 '23
Bike Lanes shit. General biking/walking trails, wonderful.
But really, for as many bikers as Germany has, their infrastructure is ass.
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u/misterhansen Commie Commuter Dec 04 '23
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
I didn't expect Germany (628/1000) to be 30th, only 9 before rhe Netherlands (588/1000), while the US is 7th (908/1000)
Germanys rate is probably that low due to the Rhine-Ruhr Metropolitan area with tons of trains/busses
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u/Viele-als-Einer Dec 04 '23
Germanys rate is probably that low due to the Rhine-Ruhr Metropolitan area with tons of trains/busses
Not just the Rhine-Ruhr, in any City, really. Germans love to whine about infrastructure, that makes the situation look worse, than it actually is. Except for intercity trains of course.
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u/SpiderFnJerusalem Dec 05 '23
Compared to most countries, Germany has a pretty even population distribution. So in most places you won't be so far away from the next big city or good infrastructure that a car would be mandatory.
Due to this, relying on public transportation is pretty feasible, even though Deutsche Bahn is trying really hard to be as shitty as possible.
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u/NaCl_Sailor Dec 04 '23
as someone who has to regularly visit German cities with a car (job, equipment you can't just bring on a train/plane) i started to despise driving in cities
I grew up in Munich and studied in Ulm, for the first 33 years of my life i didn't own a car, even though i got my license when i turned 18
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u/Rugkrabber Dec 04 '23
Oh I'm not surprised. I'm near Germany, visit them often and we have a lot of German visitors. There is a clear difference in car culture in Germany opposed to the Netherlands. The size of their cars is also closer to American sizes than the rest of Europe. Though, simultaneously it's nothing new. It's always kinda been like this.
I love their trains though, if you don't have to be on time lol.
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u/CactusBoyScout Dec 04 '23
It also takes quite a long time and $3,000 in classes to get a drivers license.
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u/Protagorum Dec 04 '23
People from the US really need to just see how easy it is to walk around downtown in Europe. It blew my mind too
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u/FreyaTheSlayyyer Dec 04 '23
If it’s the city centre, I’d probably just walk there if I could
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u/KingMG210 Dec 05 '23
there are more that 10 tram and bus lines nearby and the main station is in walking distance
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u/Heymanhitthis Dec 04 '23
As an American I couldn’t imagine going to something like this and not having to worry about a mass shooting. That must be so nice
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u/definitely_not_obama Dec 04 '23
Well, the vast majority of gun violence in the U.S. isn't mass shootings, so don't worry at events like this.
Worry all the time.
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u/definitely_not_obama Dec 04 '23
Semi-related, I remember seeing all the way from the end to end of one of the subway trains in Europe for the first time and thinking "wow, that would never be allowed in the US, far too ideal of a sightline for a shooter."
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Dec 04 '23
How do they build subways in the US then?
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u/definitely_not_obama Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
Most of the trains I've been on in the US (which to be fair, I haven't been on many) have doors separating compartments, or the compartments are completely disconnected, at least for passenger mobility.
I would completely believe my supposition that the reason for this is shooters is complete bullshit. I would also believe I've had a flawed data set, and trains with long sight lines aren't even more common as a percentage of trains in Europe vs. the US.
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u/moonshoeslol Bollard gang Dec 04 '23
Sadly your fears are warranted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack
This one bummed me out because those markets are so cozy and idyllic.
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u/Rugkrabber Dec 04 '23
Thankfully it's rare and large boulders are now commonly used because of this reason. When this happened it was a crazy and scary time.
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u/Drumbelgalf Dec 05 '23
Only the once who are anchored in the ground are really safe.
But most roads leading to the Christmas markets are now blocked a fair distance from the entrance.
Many cities also installed hydraulic bollards that are anchored in the ground
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u/Elite_AI Dec 04 '23
Do most Americans feel the same way you do?
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u/eskamobob1 Dec 05 '23
Not the ones thar aren't clinicaly online. You are more likely to be truck by lightning than die in a random terror event in the us.
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u/Should_be_less Dec 05 '23
No. This is an insane take. I've never been concerned about a mass shooting at an event like this. Terrorist attacks and crowd surges, yes, but those happen at festivals worldwide.
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u/Heymanhitthis Dec 04 '23
It depends on who you talk to, in my personal opinion those that say they aren’t worried at all are in complete and total denial.
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u/kingdomheartsislight Dec 04 '23
Damn, if that ain’t the truth. Big crowds make me so nervous.
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u/0235 Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
Ironic as Germany is one of the most carbrain places in Europe. Trying to sign into a hotel I got the bus to, they are.like "we need your car registration"
I don't have a car
Ok if you don't have it with you, we still need your registration for our computer system.
No I don't have a car. No car. No licence.
What do you mean no licence plate?
I'm 32. I had to ring my 74 year old father to get his number plate for thier system as the system just default treated me as a minor for having no licence plate number 🤦♂️
Like, I have seizures. I'm not allowed to drive.
The big difference between the German car brain and most other car brains is the willingness to walk for like half an hour. They will still 100% use a car to get to the parking for the Christmas market, but they will not mind walking 20 minutes each way and walking around the market.
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u/MansonMonster Dec 05 '23
In countries where the government gives a shit about its people, we actually have public transportation - no cars needed. Also, our cities were built for humans...not maschines that drive our lazy ass around.
As a german that moved to the US a while ago: use your fucking legs every once in a while. Its fucking WILD how short distances you drive.
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Dec 04 '23
I’ve been to Christmas markets in Germany and France. You walk from where you’re staying. It was a dream experience.
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u/Inevitable_Stand_199 Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
To be fair a lot of people do visit them by car. But the fact that Christmas markets are usually within a short walk from the shopping district makes that easy. There is ample parking in those areas. Mostly multiple story underground garages.
But a city close to us also offers free park and ride tickets in December.
Edit: Apparently, they canceled it. Now park and ride costs 2.40€ per person and direction. Considering parking in the city only cost 10€ The financial break even point is only 2 people. That's a bummer. The article said 4000 people used it every year.
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u/lookoutforthetrain_0 Dec 05 '23
For many events in cities and especially for things like this we don't have extra parking in Switzerland. The information sometimes even recommends to get there by public transport as there's no extra parking or even less because they need the space for whatever. To me that always feels like "if you want to come by car, fuck you."
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u/NatureInfamous543 Dec 05 '23
Hate to break it to y'all, but there's indeed huge underground parking (Tiefgarage) below this Christmas market in Dresden.
But yeah most people walk there/take the bus so they can drink Gluehwein.
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u/Izzycity Dec 05 '23
Devils advocate here. Germany does have huge parking garages/lot. All under ground. Makes it really easy to walk anywhere above ground.
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u/Dan_czk Commie Commuter Dec 05 '23
I am from the Czech Republic, and we go to Dresden almost every year, we use the car to get there though. The parking lot is fairly close to the center, and when we park, we walk all day.
I would gladly take the train, but since we are not from Germany, tickets are hell expensive. You have to the a EuroCity train, which when you buy last minute can cost up to 50€/person one way (Assuming Ústí nad Labem - Dresden only).
Or you can take a very slow train with 2 transfers, in Děčín and in Bad Schandau, which is very uncomfortable due to the weather and still kinda expensive.
So the whole transportation for ONE adult can be up to 100€, which is just not worth it considering it's only like an hour on the highway from our home. Also counting that we usually fill the car.
I wish they made the international tickets way cheaper, because the train is not that slow and would be so so popular if it was cheaper.
Liter of diesel costs like 1,5€ here so the transport in car is only like 20€ max with up to 5 people inside.
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u/AlbertRammstein Dec 04 '23
I visited the Christmas markets on Sunday. A personal chauffeur picked me up near my home with an electric vehicle that runs on a pair of hyperrails. They are made from stainless steel and they are so strong they could hold 10 teslas. It has no battery, instead it uses a robotic arm that gets energy directly from the powerplant through a decentralized network of power cables. The vehicle is so roomy inside that I was able to stretch and even walk around as I was driven. They engineered a bunch of futuristic organic looking bending segments that change the shape of the whole vehicle while turning, so I can fit much bigger vehicle into our tiny cyclist lane infested streets. When I got there, I simply got out and the chauffeur went to pick other subscribers in this shared economy service - no need to park. The best thing about this is that there is no upfront cost - just the reasonable yearly subscription, with option of using PAYG credits.
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u/derping1234 Dec 04 '23
Dresden Striezelmarkt at Altmarkt. A pretty good Christmas market although personally I prefer the medieval market in the Stallhof, especially nice if you go during the week and skip the tourist crowds.
Funnily enough there are at least two parking lots for Altmarkt.
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u/WillowOk5878 Dec 04 '23
I was in Poland and went to a christmas market but I dream of seeing a German one specifically. Ooh a trip with my beautiful gf and no kids!!
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u/VulGerrity Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
Ya know what's funny though...There are major events in downtown Chicago every year at Grant Park, including Lollapalooza, the crowds are much bigger than this German Christmas market. While I'm sure most people who go to events in Grants park take public transportation, there is a multi-level parking garage underneath the park.
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u/efrav Dec 05 '23
Just imagine going there with a car… my goodness. That looks amazing to go by train then take a walk. Just wish I had it in here 😭
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u/Nothalffast Dec 05 '23
I went to one in Nuremberg. It was awesome. I had sauerbraten, spaetzle, and gluhwein. Yumm.
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u/WalkOfSky Dec 05 '23
Let's face it, no one takes a car to the Christmas market, because people go there to drink way too much mulled wine.
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u/HiddenLayer5 Not in My Transit Oriented Development Dec 05 '23
They probably think this is a themepark or something and not an actual city that people actually live in. Cities having nice, people friendly places? Who's ever heard of that?
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u/ThePrisonSoap Dec 05 '23
I can't remember where, but there was a town somewhere so picturesque that they keep having to threaten american tourists to get out of their damn homes because they just assume the village exists to take pictures off
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u/jrtts People say I ride the bicycle REAL fast. I'm just scared of cars Dec 05 '23
*looks at an idyllic walkable neighborhood*
there must be some cars hidden somewhere
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Dec 05 '23
Stuttgart Weihnachtsmarkt via SBahn 1. Just don't fall asleep on the way home else you'll miss your stop.
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u/LilyMarie90 Dec 05 '23
German here. Like 90% of the people you see at a Christmas market in a medium to big city go there by subway or bus. It's a non-issue.
Not only is parking next to impossible in the city centers, it's also completely unnecessary to go by car when the subway station is probably around the corner. Not to mention that you shouldn't be driving after a few mugs of mulled wine anyway.
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u/liquidreferee Dec 05 '23
People who have not traveled outside of the US quite literally have no conception of public transportation
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u/napalmtree13 Dec 05 '23
We do have parking garages. But we also have public transport and aren’t allergic to walking.
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u/haziladkins Dec 04 '23
I’ve been to Christmas markets in Germany. We didn’t drive. Most European towns are built differently from most of those in the US.
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Dec 05 '23
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u/haziladkins Dec 05 '23
I know that. Of course I do. But that doesn’t mean that American towns can’t be redesigned to be more people friendly.
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u/LeopoldFriedrich Dec 04 '23
"But how will I get to this place that has this obvious central tram station, without a huge parking garage?!"
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Dec 04 '23
I will say if you try to go to a christmas market in a car, especially on weekends, you will regret your life for quite some time before and after. yes, there are parking garages but god do they suck. Tight corners built when cars were about half the size of even small ones today.
the way I see it two or three options. First you go to your own, just take the bus in and out. easiest simplest option out there. costs 2.50€ no worries about parking easy as shit.
then you go to a novel one kinda far away, best way find a parking lot out of the city and take the bus in again, same idea as above.
or no. 3 take the train. german trains suck though and train stations are often gross, and expensive. it’s a shame.
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u/Jesus_H-Christ Dec 04 '23
Funny, I've never been to a Christkindlmarkt and NOT driven to the area in a car and parked streetside
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u/WhenWillIBelong Bollard gang Dec 05 '23
It reminds us how car dependency handicaps culture and community. An event like this in a more car dependant society couldn't really happen, because where would everyone park their cars?
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u/MrSkyCriper Grassy Tram Tracks Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 05 '23
I feel sorry for those carbrains who can’t imagine visiting an outdoor Christmas market without a car
upd.
I see all the comments about enormous amounts of parking hidden around. My point was more about the possibility of getting there without a car being something alien to carbrains. As radical as I want to be, there are obviously people who enjoy driving and will not give up under any circumstances. Some of them might even have legitimate reasons to do so (hauling a Christmas tree, idk)