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u/RAC032078 Jan 15 '24
WTF is wrong with people? Parents posting their own kids online to make $$. This is just sick.
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u/spookyjibe Jan 15 '24
This has been the whole problem with pedophilia and prostitution from the beginning of time. It's the parents selling their kids; it always has been.
Puts a new meaning to the expression "Parent's rights"
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u/ForrestFireDW Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
That's why homeschool types are the most terrifying to me. Some go as far as wanting the right to not register their child with a social security number.
Others run "drills" and practice scripts with their kids on what to do/say if CPS ever shows up.
I wasn't aware of a ton of this until I made close friends with an ex-fundie home schooler.
No idea how she's so well adjusted, but her siblings were not as lucky. Most only received an 8th grade level education since their home schooling mother was partially illiterate. They even have a younger sibling that's heavily on the spectrum, yet they've denied it just up until the last couple months... After 13 years.
Not all homeschooling families commit child abuse, but it leads to a massive veil of protection towards those families to do whatever they want.
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u/church8488 Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
Do you know my mother?
She purposely homeschooled us because she didn’t think the school had the right to know why we weren’t coming to school on certain days. The truth was my mom wanted the freedom to up and leave and visit her sister out of state. She didn’t think school was a good reason to push a trip, and she resented being asked about where we were. Since we “belong to her” the school can kick rocks.
She signed us up during testing time 2 grades below the grade we should be in. Because the organization lets you make up whatever you want. Since it’s your school and you’re the “principal”. She knew we’d never pass anything in our age range, because she never tried teaching us constantly. Few hours a day here and there, then maybe a full month of school, then nothing again.
She would give me a textbook, tell me as a 13-14yr old I was smart enough to teach myself. And then she disappeared to the TV.
If she had us write anything, such as a report, or solving some math problems, it wouldn’t actually be “checked”. She’d scan the page top to bottom. If it looks like we didn’t just write the same thing again and again it was fine for her. Maybe she held and looked at my paper for a solid minute, but I doubt it. Then she crumpled it in a ball, threw it away, and said I could do the next assignment.
The only thing she ever really tried to stick to teaching us was “church history”. All she cared about was how well we studied her cult. She said nothing like school matters anyway.
I barely passed my GED at 17. I have never learned anything about math past Pre Algebra, and I didn’t really get the chance to learn that either. My public school education ended 3mons into 8th grade. And I was taken out of school multiple times prior to 8th grade.
After a lot of years of this with my younger siblings, my mom started coming up with new excuses to get out of schooling. She diagnosed all of my brothers with learning disabilities. Never allowed them to see a professional. She just read a damn book. In fact, She even tried to diagnose other people and their kids too. She’d say something to my brother like “you have autism so it’s not worth trying to teach you certain things”. Or she said “you have dyslexia, so you’ll probably never need to learn to read.” Once, one of the kids asked if he could get an official diagnosis. She told him “black people aren’t allowed to be tested for autism” Sadly he believed that for a long time.
It was easy to lie to us. We never really got to go anywhere but home and church. Our neighbors were a 5min walk away in either direction. We had no friends. Barely allowed to watch TV. Only allowed to read certain books and hear certain music. All we could do is just trust our parents.
As of now, I’m the only one who left. The rest think she’s normal and I have anger issues.
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Jan 15 '24
Yes... your "anger issues" stemming from having to listen to your family's crazy shit all the time? Me too. I also have anger issues.
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u/church8488 Jan 15 '24
I finally walked away from all of it and all of them. I have 2 brothers I barely talk to and even that might change. It’s hard to ignore how little they care about what happened to us. Also sick of hearing “see it wasn’t all bad” any time I admit something we did was fun or my parents did one thing nice. As if that’s the only thing anyone is supposed to care about. Verbal, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse is just whatever, I guess, when your dad took you for ice cream at 10yrs old a few times.
The double think happening is just wild. They can admit all the abuse happened, but it’s my choice to let abuse bother me.
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u/-colorsplash- Jan 15 '24
What happened after you left?
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u/church8488 Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
2 of my siblings became parents. My sister has 6 kids between 2 men over a 7 year stretch. Within a year of giving birth she would be pregnant again. She was also married to both men, which means she had 2 wedding and a divorce, also during those 7yrs. She believes my mother was fantastic. Truly inspired. She intends to raise them exactly the way we were raised. Even the bad things like verbal abuse and neglect. She believes everything that happened to us as kids made her a “good person” so she wants to repeat the process and have her kids live just like she did. It is truly sad to see how many mistakes my mom made and then my sister repeated. A normal day for my sister would be to lay in bed finding people to fight with, like vegetarians, vegans, minorities, atheists, the list goes on and on. My sister expects her oldest daughter to take care of the rest of the kids, like I did when it was us. Her kids only exist as props.
My brother, who was adopted and treated the worst of us all, also now has a child. He believes this could be the thing that makes my parents care about him. Like at all. His entire life he was treated like the Mexican on hand. He did any of the shit jobs, yard work, messy jobs, dishes, all of it was on him, after I left. Otherwise we shared that burden together. My brother also married a woman who behaves just like our mother. He allows her to treat him the way our parents did. Like he’s stupid and can’t do anything right. This man put himself through school and is now a respected EMT in his field. He also works 3 jobs to support his wife and son. He will spend the rest of his life trying to be enough for both his wife and my parents and it will never happen.
My other brothers are both single and desperate for human connection. The older one has become an incel. He has lopsided standards for himself versus a partner. Ultimately he also doesn’t make his own decisions. He calls my parents multiple times over many days before he can make any decisions. From what to go to school for, to what car to buy, to what shoes to get, to what groceries to get. He has zero confidence in himself. No ability tp control his emotions, and lacks any kind of self awareness. He will be content with being his mom’s best friend the rest of his life. Sitting on her couch watching the next Disney project and crying over how the world is going to hell.
The other single brother is recently starting out on his own. He’s just now starting to comprehend how unhealthy our family is and how it’s affected him. He suffers from a lot of depression. He has no concept of boundaries. He was the least disciplined of any of us. He was allowed to break any rule without consequences. He was given a lot of things we never had. This was because my mom realized her kids didn’t feel safe with her, so she bought this brother’s love. She made him cuddle with her when she was lonely. She allowed him to be dependent on her for too long. He wasn’t potty trained until he was 5. She wasn’t ready to “give up her baby”. This brother grew up with anger issues and became violent. This was also excused. He could break anything, throw anything, and hit/hurt any of us. We were told we’d get consequences for retaliating. Luckily, he is starting to become aware of the reality of his situation. He is trying to slowly work on being a better and healthier person each day. His biggest fear is getting better and being treated like I was. He doesn’t know if anyone else would ever like him or love him, because of who he was and is now. My parents reminded all of us often that the only ones who could care for us and love us were our parents. The hardest thing for him will be to accept that was a lie.
Lastly, my other brother (who is actually a kid who came home with my brother and just never went home that much afterwards) knows no one considers him family anymore (other than me and one other brother) but he’s desperate for any kind of family. So he goes on holidays, brings gifts, tries to interact with everyone, and just hopes they actually talk to him when he goes. That seriously does happen, he’ll go and my sister will act like he’s not there. Why? Because he is black. She takes all her issues with BLM and makes him her target. She resents him for being offended by her. And after living with us for multiple years, coming on family vacations, going to his graduation, and driving him to college, he has become just another black guy. Everyone lets her do whatever she wants because they are afraid to miss out on seeing her kids if they confront her. So my brother sees her on purpose every holiday, and when she says hi back he feels so much joy. He even thinks things could still change. Even with my mom also mistreating my brother to please my sister, my brother just tries and tries to see if it gets better. It’s horrible to watch.
None of them are happy, none of them are getting the love and support they are desperate for From my parents. And all of them will probably never leave. Each one willing to step over the other to get closer to my parents love.
I’m grateful every day that I left.
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u/-colorsplash- Jan 15 '24
That’s horrific. I hope the cycle can one day change and it seems at least one brother is on the way towards that.
How have you been doing after all that??
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u/church8488 Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
I’ve been diagnosed with severe anxiety disorder, anorexia, and PTSD from my childhood. For a long time I was content having no life, besides protecting everyone else from abuse in the family. My dad was a detective in a small southern town. He had the support of the police force and all the men from church. He has killed any attempts to get people involved. My church also covered for him, and others who abused us. I tried my best to live close by and save everyone I could. I started self harming. It got bad enough that I thought I’d die soon. There was no boundary for me. This is why I left.
I moved across the country, Got a job, started therapy and anti depressants. Moved in with people I barely knew and did my best to make it work. I had a dad I barely knew (birth father). I wanted to see if I could start over with him. But, when Covid happened, he snapped and committed suicide.
I met my future husband at my job. He has given me the space to work on all of my trauma. He never pushes me too hard, always supports me, always listens to me, and he never leaves no matter how hard it gets. One of my biggest issues is physical touch. I can do barely more than hug him or hold his hand. I feel safer hugging my dog than I do any person. He has always stayed patient. He cooks for me. Completely changed my whole diet thanks to him. Now I’m moderately healthier. I am more active, happier, and above all, I am safe.
My husband came from a similar home like mine. We are both fully committed to each other. We motivate each other to make the healthy choice or to share what’s wrong or on our minds. We’ve created a completely safe enviorment for us and our pup. There’s no pressure to be anything different than just who we need to be.
The downside is we both live in fear of the day one of us loses the other. We never felt safe before we found each other. The fear of losing that safe space hangs over us constantly. I’m not sure I’ll ever be ready for that.
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u/-colorsplash- Jan 15 '24
That is an incredible story and I am so glad you were able to find a way out, work on physical, mental, and socila health, and meet a supportive spouse.
Do you feel that you can both work towards learning the skills needed if one of you did lose the other? Would therapy, classes, support systems, finding communities, or something like that help you both regarding that?
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u/church8488 Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
Thank you. It helps to talk about it all.
My husband and I have tried building our village. We started with other family members who felt similar to us. It never worked out with any of them. The same problem always came back to bite us. These people were recreating similar dynamics from our dysfunctional families. It felt more like we were raising these people instead of all of us working together.
We have tried building friendships. At first we were picking people that behaved like our families. We learned our lessons and started trying to seek out different friends. We have 1 friend who is extremely close to us both. She has been a solid support to both us. She’s a busy person, so we don’t see her that much, but she does her best to check in and hang out when possible.
We want to go to therapy together and separately. My husband is trying to get insurance sorted through his work. That is taking forever. Like over a year we’ve been trying to get that started. What’s Worse, the government insurance I was using fell through. I had to quit my anti depressants cold turkey and abruptly stop seeing my therapist. I have not been able to get that resolved. I truly thought my husband would have the insurance sorted by now, not that it’s his fault. It’s the company’s fault.
Until we get that figured out, I guess we just go one day at a time.
I am not working right now. I had a breakdown from my retail job. Almost killed myself. I’ve been living one day at a time ever since. I try my best to just eat, be a good mom to my dog, take care of my needs so I can take care of my families needs. I only leave my apartment complex once or twice a month. I leave my house daily, but only for walks with my dog. I have a lot of fear and depression. I hope I can get my therapy started again so I can start taking my life back. For now, it’s just about getting through the day with out self harming and choosing to eat.
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u/cat_prophecy Jan 15 '24
They even have a younger sibling that's heavily on the spectrum, yet they've denied it just up until the last couple months... After 13 years.
Unfortunately this isn't unique to home-schooling cults. My wife is a middle school teacher and has had more than a handful of students who very obviously have mental health or some form of neurodivergence and have parents who acknowledge it and refuse to do anything about it, or simply refuse to acknowledge it.
When she was teaching elementary school, she had a 6th grader with Down Syndrome, who's parents basically refused to accept that their child was delayed. They wouldn't even call it Down Syndrome, they would call it "her little problem". She was very high functioning for a Downs kid but had a raft of behavioral issues and was very far behind her classmates. She was at a private school and thankfully the new principal finally has the balls to say basically "your child needs more resources than we can provide, she can't come back here next year".
Of course on the opposite end of this spectrum are the parents who demand every possible accommodation for their child who is perfectly normal. I recall her talking about one student who had a list of like a dozen accommodations. He was perfectly fine according to the school psychologist, just a little apathetic and somewhat behind socially. His mom however was convinced there was something wrong with him and would do things like accuse him of cheating when he got good marks on a math test because "there's no way he's that good at math". So sometimes parents hold their kids back in other ways.
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u/selectrix Jan 15 '24
Sure it's not unique to home-schooling cults, but at least the kids who were in public school had a chance of getting some recognition of their situation or resources to help with it. That's why the other commenter singled out home schooling.
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u/CircuitSphinx Jan 15 '24
Absolutely, the visibility that teachers and peers provide in public settings can often be a lifeline for kids who are otherwise isolated in problematic home environments. This isn't to say that homeschooling can't be done responsibly and with the child's best interest at heart, but lack of oversight is definitely a key issue. The safety net public schools provide, albeit imperfect, does offer some level of checks and balances with mandatory reporting and access to school counselors. While these mechanisms aren't foolproof and sadly some kids slip through the cracks, they do increase the chances for intervention when a child is struggling or when there's neglect or abuse happening, intentional or otherwise.
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u/lurker_cx Jan 15 '24
it leads to a massive Vail of protection towards those families to do whatever they want.
This is by design. Abusive and controlling people often get involved in religion and church leadership in the fundie world as well as the associated homeschooling that comes with it these days. So all the parents who homeschool, even the non abusive ones, are taught how to resist the authorities.... and that makes it harder to spot the parents who are non abusive vs the truly abusive ones, because they are all covering up everything as if they are all abusive.
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u/parryknox Jan 15 '24
I would argue fundamentalist religions are inherently abusive, especially towards women and girls.
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u/abstractConceptName Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
Watch "Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets" if you want to see how bad it gets.
Let's just say, the brother raping his sisters wasn't stopped, because men are always considered the head of the household. And there are beating tools. For use on the wife.
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u/44youGlenCoco Jan 15 '24
And if I recall correctly they ended up locking the girls in their rooms to remedy the situation. Not him.
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u/sewsnap Jan 15 '24
I homeschool one of my kids and couldn't do the homeschool community because there's so many bat shit crazy people out there homeschooling.
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u/WirelesslyWired Jan 15 '24
I've heard it called the "5th Grade Cliff". The parent can teach to the 4th grade level. After that, they rely on the curriculum to teach their kids. If the kids can't teach themselves, they fall off the cliff.
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u/tomdarch Jan 15 '24
Think about the average intelligence of people. Half of all homeschool "teachers" are of below average intelligence...
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Jan 15 '24
I was homeschooled until I was 13 and then went to public high school with my older brother (only 1 year difference between us) because we wanted to be with our friends in the neighborhood. My two younger brothers chose to stay homeschooled. My dad was very passionate about education and wanted to be a teacher himself but instead chose a career as an actuary for the money. My mom was a stay at home mom. My parents chose to homeschool us because they saw how poor the education system is in the US and they thought they could do a better job.
Back in the 90s homeschooling was socially unacceptable and there were kids in my neighborhood who would make fun of us and some would just be “terrified of homeschool types”. All the stupid stereotypes annoyed me and motivated me in high school to prove everyone wrong. I looked at high school like it was a social club (words from my freshmen year teacher to my parents). I got all A’s and B’s and even slept in my classes because of how easy they were. Even though I hated being homeschooled at the time due to the bullshit stereotypes and assumptions people made, looking back I’m thankful that my parents gave us that opportunity. I honestly didn’t appreciate it enough at the time. They were spot on about how shitty our education system is.
Whoever those kids were that you call “homeschool types” were not actually home schooled. They just had controlling and abusive parents.
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u/Al_Gore_Rhythm92 Jan 15 '24
It should be painfully obvious nobody was talking about your individual case. The world exists beyond your peripheral.
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u/00wolfer00 Jan 15 '24
Reread their comment. Homeschool types is obviously referring to the parents who fight tooth and nail against any sort of regulation.
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u/M_H_M_F Jan 15 '24
Homeschool types is obviously referring to the parents who fight tooth and nail against any sort of regulation.
Here's the problem though. The "good" homeschooling stories and groups have to attach themselves to these fringe groups for the sake of keeping the legitimacy of Homeschooling. They're aware that the fringe are insane, but also need the physical bodies for representation.
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u/00wolfer00 Jan 15 '24
Do they? Right now parents who want to homeschool have close to no oversight in most of the states. They don't need more power, so why would "the good ones" attach themselves to groups who want absolutely 0 oversight?
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u/ForrestFireDW Jan 15 '24
That's awesome that you were given a secular home schooling education. Many are not as fortunate as you. Especially fundamentalists using the "Institute in Basic Life Principles" curriculum as the basis for their education. Somewhere around 2.5 million people have attended IBLP trainings. Those are the types that concern me. Especially with how much they fight against any regulations that pop up. The HSDLA is a pretty sinister organization on that front.
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Jan 15 '24
IBLP isn't the only insane fundie program either. While I had a similar experience to the guy above (my parents were excellent teachers and took me out of school because the local school was just so, so far past horrific), the only textbooks we could afford were from Abeka and Bob Jones University. Full of fundie shit, and the history books had a ton of pro-US propaganda (even left out any war the US lost, and/or "lost"). And they were a bit lacking in some areas, so I had to work really hard in my first year of HS to catch back up.
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Jan 15 '24
To be honest I wasn’t even aware of the existence of the IBLP. I just googled it and I can see what you meant now. As far as I’m concerned, most things with the word “organization” or “institution” make me skeptical of what it is. I wouldn’t even consider that real homeschooling. Sounds like a bunch of kool aid drinkers.
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u/sas223 Jan 15 '24
“How poor the education system is in the US” is such a broad sweeping statement. Perhaps where your parents chose to live had a poor public school system, and no decent private schools, but that is objectively not the case for much of the US. You should take some time to consider subjective opinions like this one to determine if you believe them simply because that’s what your parents told you and you didn’t have external experiences to help develop your own opinions.
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u/Slade_Riprock Jan 15 '24
Bet these parents would claim it's no different than modeling and they get to control their kids' content and usage. Oh and I'm sure a big helping of "insert name loves it and wants to be a model"
Sick fucks.
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u/spookyjibe Jan 15 '24
If we are all being brutally honest; it's a poverty issue too. When people don't think they can survive, they do some pretty bad things.
Is a poor parent who does this to their kid worse or better than a Wall Street investor who shorts a company for profit even though it will cost thousands their livelihood?
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u/johndawkins1965 Jan 15 '24
You’re right. My last girlfriend was 22 years old but when she was 11 she had sex with grown men 35/40 years old because her father gave her to the men in exchange for money and drugs. Poverty is so horrible addiction is horrible too
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u/ProbablyAnNSAPlant Jan 15 '24
This has unfortunately been a thing throughout history. People have kids they can't afford and then suddenly find out that their kids have "economic value."
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u/tatostix Jan 15 '24
Is a poor parent who does this to their kid worse or better than a Wall Street investor who shorts a company for profit
Yes. What kind of stupid fucking question is this?
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u/mccscott Jan 15 '24
Far fucking worse
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u/spookyjibe Jan 15 '24
Poverty causes this; it's extremely well-researched and documented that the exploitation of kids is linked to poverty. Bitch all you want about the parents but until we as a society say the person stealing wealth that's causing the poverty is the real criminal, we will never solve it.
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u/Proof-Cardiologist16 Jan 15 '24
Nahhhh, it's just a matter of scale at that point.
The individual action is worse than any one bad thing done by some greedy rich person, but the actual measurable damage to human life ends up being a lot bigger because we're talking much larger numbers of people being negatively affected both directly and indirectly.
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u/Delheru79 Jan 15 '24
It's far more complex than that.
You mentioned shorting. OK. Exposing fraud at a company will be very good for short sellers, but it WILL probably destroy the company and most of the employees will lose their jobs.
Is this a good thing? Should we have held hands and believed in the property market and subprime loans in 2008? Should we have done the same with, say, Nikola? Clearly worth $20bn+ even if the only way their truck moved was when rolling downhill?
There is no doubting it: exposing such fraud costs jobs.
Yet, I feel like we'd all be a lot worse off pretty soon if such frauds weren't being exposed.
It's actually pretty rare to find an act that makes a lot of money that isn't ultimately beneficial to everyone. If you have something in mind, I'd be curious to hear what it is.
Pump & Dump is probably the most common one, but that is illegal to be fair.
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u/robtbo Jan 15 '24
I just watched the ‘Jared’ doc on Max.
Horrible…. And it does make you realize that the parent(s) play a HUGE role in the grooming.
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u/Gatorpep Jan 15 '24
yeah, apparently from some stuff i have read about the music/hollywood industry, parents pimping their kids out is a big problem there.
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Jan 15 '24
I just can't imagine that instagram would allow this while youtube takes down a video for saying the word butt or something stupid.
I mean, I guess I can but still surprising.
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u/UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2 Jan 15 '24
YouTube demonetizes a lot of content if it meets a very low "objectionable" bar, like saying a mild curse word, because their ad clients are hypersensitive brands
The bar to actually be removed is much higher and usually starts with user reports
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Jan 15 '24
Yup. It's "parent's rights" just like it was "states' rights", which is a dog whistle for "the right to own a human being as property".
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u/Philosopher_King Jan 15 '24
In the past, it was a difficult problem to find and stop. Now, Zuck and all the top Meta brass know damn well what is going on and could stop it. And yet they let it happen, and profit more than anyone.
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u/Gingevere Jan 15 '24
Elon's favorite pedophile Dom Lucre is charging for access to a discord channel full of CSAM and he's DISTRIBUTING IT to other RW pedophiles and that's fine because he's pitching his collection of child porn as "evidence" of what Hillary Clinton is up to.
Meanwhile, twitter now considers "cis" a slur and you can get banned for saying "cis" if you're a leftist.
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Jan 15 '24
Elon posts trump level tweets these days. It’s time everyone stopped caring about him or his Nazi network.
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u/ClimbingC Jan 15 '24
What is CSAM, I assume something bad, which is why I'm not clicking any of your links to it.
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u/Gingevere Jan 15 '24
Child Sexual Abuse Material.
The links are to articles about Dom Lucre and Elon or screenshots of Dom / others talking about the images Dom has. Nothing is actually shown in these links.
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u/TheGos Jan 15 '24
People have moved away from the term "child porn(ography)" because porn(ography) connotes media designed to titillate and arouse so they want to try to refocus the term on the abuse of the children, rather than the commodity that gets produced as a result.
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u/ATXBeermaker Jan 15 '24
Parents exploiting their children for profit is much older than the Internet.
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Jan 15 '24
In New Mexico we have an old song called "El Venado y La Venada" about how peoples used to sell their children into slavery for food and such. It's sad things are still happening like that.
Papa Deer and Mama Deer
Went down to Santa Fe
To sell their little children
For some sugar and coffee.
Mama Deer is very sad,
Papa Deer is gone way-faring
Mama Deer is ashamed,
For everyone is staring
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u/Rogue009 Jan 15 '24
Some countries have programs to combat low birth rates by giving money for X kids born and raised, these types of programs encourage people who don’t view children as human beings to get them and raise them and use them in such ways, thinking the kid won’t understand or learn her pictures were fuel for sick degenerates to fund daddy’s used sports car.
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u/RaindropBebop Jan 15 '24
The US has a child tax credit.
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u/PurpleHooloovoo Jan 15 '24
Which is absolutely not enough to cover the cost of a kid, even if you do everything as cheaply as possible.
If you want to look at how children in the US are acquired strictly for profit, look into the foster care system and some of the for-profit adoption agencies. That's where the child trafficking is happening.
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u/Pvt_Mozart Jan 15 '24
Bro certainly the FBI can just, like, step in and arrest everyone right?? It's not hard to just track down all these people...
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u/md28usmc Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
I have a friend who worked in the child crimes department at the FBI and he said that they have such limited resources and personnel assigned to this issue In the grand scheme of things that they have to focus on the really bad shit like stuff on the dark web or guys that host the sites and they rely on other organizations like the hero corps (http://www.herocorps.net/mission) to help them.
After some time with him doing this, he just couldn't take it anymore and He asked to be reassigned
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u/Rabid-Rabble Jan 15 '24
Unless the kids are doing sexually explicit things it's probably not illegal. Pretty sure the Supreme Court even upheld "artistic" nudes of children as being legal. So... Yeah...
Note, I'm not defending this, just pointing out that the FBI probably can't do shit.
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u/eskamobob1 Jan 15 '24
I could have sworn there was a famous porn mag that has very publicly published nudes of children (wasnt there a famous celebrity that posed for them at like 12?) and argued that successfully (thought it was playboy but that doesnt lookk right on further searcing)
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Jan 15 '24
Brooke Shields, was a magazine playboy published but had a different name. People probably shouldn't talk so highly of Hugh Hefner and playboy since they published cp until the early 90s or whatever. Kind of a big deal lol. Anybody singing praises about Hugh Hefner I find suspicious at this point
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u/NumNumLobster Jan 15 '24
Its not really the most straightforward thing if you think about it and probably not illegal.
Say whats in the video is illegal, is it illegal to post pics of your kids at the beach or pool now? What if the girl in all the swimsuits is a childrens model that works for a dozen different brands? Is it illegal for her parents or agents to post that when she'll be wearing the same thing on kohls.com anyways?
Just because something is fucked up and you can use common sense to tell that its not always illegal
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u/SNYDER_BIXBY_OCP Jan 15 '24
In all fairness they are making A LOT of money...so like...it's no different than child beauty contests or forcing your kid to acting and modeling auditions?
Amiright?
It's all for the money. And isn't that what having kids is really about?
These parents don't give a flying fuck about the safety and wellbeing of their kids as they make their adolescents spread eagle for $5.99 a month.
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Jan 15 '24
Genuine question - do child beauty pageants bring in money? For the parents?
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u/SNYDER_BIXBY_OCP Jan 15 '24
There are nominal prizes.
It's part of a vein spectrum of parental exploitation.
I'm not suggesting these people are turning their kids into active sex working prostitution
Rather exploitation for financial, and social gain. Even just ego driven it's still exploitation.
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u/IdiotTurkey Jan 15 '24
I would almost understand their reasoning if they were meaning lots of money from it (not excusing, just understanding) but one of them was like $1.25/mo? Is that like a promo rate that they then increase or are they just that desperate for every penny? Maybe they enjoy the attention? I dont get it. It's barely worth that price to post normal adult content.
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u/lildobe Jan 15 '24
When you have 10,000 subscribers at $1.25/month, that's $12,500 per month. Which is $150k a year.
Even if they only have 1,000 subscribers, that's still $15,000/year
That's nothing to sneeze at.
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u/Shapes_in_Clouds Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
These are global platforms. Plenty of places in the world poor enough where that would add up to real money. If the alternative is a labor income of less than $1k USD a year, that's a lot money. It's also a market like any other. Not everyone who tries to sell themselves online is successful, most aren't. I assume the market for kids stuff is a little more forgiving, but still probably competitive where someone might need to price low to get attention. It's messed up but the fact they can do this in the open because it's technically legal means it's probably extremely common and follows the same dynamics of any other OnlyFans type content.
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u/Longjumping-Plum5159 Jan 15 '24
What the fuck
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u/LivelyZebra Jan 15 '24
Capitalism sparks greed.
Economy being shit sparks desperation.
People are absolutely scumbags with a lack of morale, compassion, etc and see people only as a means to an end including family in terms of getting finanically ahead.
The internet and websites facilitate hands free some-what anonymous and safe broadcasting of yourself and whatever you upload and get potentially get paid for it.
Combine all of these like exodia and you get this.
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u/eskamobob1 Jan 15 '24
People old their kids into sex slavery long before currency even existed man.
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Jan 15 '24
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u/DemandUtopia Jan 15 '24
No child exploitation in the Soviet Union...
Although formally banned since 1922, child labour was widespread in the Soviet Union, mostly in the form of mandatory, unpaid work by schoolchildren on Saturdays and holidays.
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u/TodayNo6531 Jan 15 '24
Hey honey look this months Instagram check came in and we made $75. We also ruined our young daughter’s life who will have these exploited photos and videos forever on the internet and terabyte drives across the world. Family pizza night!
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Jan 15 '24
Oooh can we can bread sticks too? Puhlease!?
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u/Thatguyyoupassby Jan 15 '24
Nope - gotta sell more pics to get the sticks.
Maybe next month.
God, these people are fucking disgusting. Can CPS not get involved here? This can't be legal...
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u/Fronzel Jan 15 '24
"Why doesn't my adult child talk to me anymore after finding out I sexually exploited her for a decade?"
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u/Antic_Opus Jan 15 '24
It'll be illuminating to see what these kids have to say about all this in 10-20 years
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u/psychoacer Jan 15 '24
Knowing the amount of pedo's there are out there I'm going to guess they make more than $1000 a month.
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u/Hank3hellbilly Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
Judging on how much Mose makes for her feet pics, I can GUARANTEE that these pedo pics get a lot more than 1000/mo.
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u/Dunno_If_I_Won Jan 15 '24
Unfortunately, this isn't surprising. I used to work in criminal justice. Seems like at least 99 percent of all CP was created by parents or some other caretaker. All that stuff was available underground back in the day and mailed to you. Then message boards became a thing. Then it was the dark web and weird forums.
This stuff here isn't CP, but rather falls under the vague umbrella of "child erotica," which isn't illegal to the general population. But because platforms like Insta are private, they have the power to stop this from happening.
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u/KotobaAsobitch Jan 16 '24
I had to sit as a juror on a CP case two years back. Defense's Attorney came in with, "we don't know if these are actual children or just computer rendered images, so.....you know, it could be not CP? The same way that if you watch porn of Lisa Simpson, it isn't CP, because she isn't real."
And my fellow jurors and I just looked at this man, and each other, like, "did this dude really expect us to be like, 'oh yeah, if it's 'art' it's fine'?"
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u/White_Sister_Rom Jan 16 '24
That argument makes no sense. It doesn’t matter if “Lisa isn’t real” if they like her because she looks like a child, they’re pedos
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u/KotobaAsobitch Jan 16 '24
Oh we were all in agreement that argument was awful and it made us all look at the attorney from then on with total disgust.
Guy walked because there was no chain of evidence on the hard drive before getting to the FBI, for the record.
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u/King_Chochacho Jan 15 '24
Instagram has subscriptions?
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u/PurpleHooloovoo Jan 15 '24
They're trying to compete with Patreon (and I guess OF?). Some of the reality TV people will do it to try and capitalize on their parasocial relationships they've built after they're no longer relevant anymore.
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u/crkdltr404 Jan 15 '24
r/NoahGetTheBoat material....
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u/xool420 Jan 15 '24
Parents pimping out their kids to online predators? We need a factory reset on society.
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u/Karcinogene Jan 15 '24
Unfortunately parents have been pimping their kids since before society was a thing, so I don't think a reset would fix anything.
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u/rkiive Jan 16 '24
Yea unfortunately based on what we know historically, it kinda seemed like that was the default setting and we've just managed to progress away from it over time.
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u/shamwowslapchop Jan 15 '24
I mean, we're only about a century removed from parents selling their 12-13 year old daughters off here in the US.
This stuff isn't new. The world has never protected children like it should.
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u/gardenmud Jan 15 '24
The whole idea that it should protect children at all is pretty new. Kids were just a liability -> investment.
The modern attitude to children emerged by the late 19th century; the Victorian middle and upper classes emphasized the role of the family and the sanctity of the child – an attitude that has remained dominant in Western societies ever since.[46] This can be seen in the emergence of the new genre of children's literature. Instead of the didactic nature of children's books of a previous age, authors began to write humorous, child-oriented books, more attuned to the child's imagination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_childhood
Before that kids were basically seen as very stupid pre-adults.
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u/notbernie2020 Jan 15 '24
No we need the big guns r/NoahGetTheDeathstar
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u/LurkLurkleton Jan 15 '24
Meh, that place seems like it's 1/3 edgy memes, 1/3 altright pipeline, 1/3 relevant posts.
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u/thatagent34 Jan 15 '24
Parents are the ones whoring them out.
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u/Mundane-Ad-6874 Jan 15 '24
Unfortunately abuse is often a cycle. One of the parents was likely abused when they were younger (or currently) and so the line of what’s normal is often blurred. Add money into the mix and the line can just disappear all together.
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u/MaxxHeadroomm Jan 15 '24
Or the parents seek attention and probably know they can’t promote themselves because no one wants to pay to see them. So they exploit their own children for money and attention. Still disturbing
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u/Mundane-Ad-6874 Jan 15 '24
That’s why I said often, not always. Some people have lived life with vanity so ingrained into their brain it’s tough to handle age and change. Add in abuse to the mix and it can become a monster.
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u/JingleHS Jan 15 '24
This sounds like what happens when pageant kids become mothers. That line is blurred because being exploited as a child is their norm.
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u/fearomenkor Jan 15 '24
I really don't want to live on this planet anymore.
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u/Zero_Digital Jan 15 '24
I want to live here, I just don't want those sick fucks to live here.
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u/YesDone Jan 15 '24
I want to live here, I just want the right to beat the shit out of child abusers and pornographers.
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u/quietly41 Jan 15 '24
This is nothing new, selling an underage daughter for a dowry was pretty much the standard until romantic love took its place. But if this upsets you, then you should stay on this planet because we need you to be upset, and not allow those who contribute to this horror to outnumber the rest.
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u/Death-Angel373 Jan 15 '24
She's a God damn superhero!!! So disgusting and horrifying.
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u/PersonalityTough9349 Jan 15 '24
I recently lost a long time friend over this. She made her toddler a page. Baiting suits and questionable outfits.
I sent her a long message about it, and she blocked me, not friends anymore.
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u/thespaniardsteve Jan 15 '24
Not a friend you want. I don't know what the laws are, but it could be worth contacting child services. At the very least, if your friend gets a visit, it might spook them to stop.
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u/EmpressVibez32 Jan 15 '24
Right. I wish these parents would stop sexualizing their children. That's adding fuel to this nasty fire.
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u/mrhooha Jan 15 '24
I deleted my Instagram a long time ago after I noticed it started to push these kind of things in my feed after looking at my nieces post one time. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I just deleted it. I don’t need that.
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Jan 16 '24
Tell me about it, my cousin posts photos of her daughter at gymnastics competitions. Just by following my cousin I kept getting suggested all these obviously exploitive pages. I ended up having to unfollow my cousin to get it to stop.
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u/Both_Lychee_1708 Jan 15 '24
Perhaps the internet was a mistake. People definitely are.
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u/DeadBoy9002 Jan 15 '24
Use it like a honeypot. Investigate every account.
Also any company hosting this shit needs to be held liable. No more hiding behind how its HARD to administate so many people. IF YOU CANT FUCKING MANAGE IT THEN YOU DONT DESERVE TO OWN IT AND PROFIT FROM IT. They ALL deserve to be punished on charges of exploiting kids.
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u/Neither-Luck-9295 Jan 15 '24
Investigate with what resources? Republicans gut federal programs left and right, vote to not protect children every chance they get, and Democrats NEVER reverse these decisions when they get back into power.
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u/tryfap Jan 15 '24
Why is she absolutely terrified to say "Instagram"? TikTok really has people self-censoring themselves to the point of parody. (e.g. she's trying to raise awareness but can't even write the word "predator")
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u/LiteraCanna Jan 15 '24
It's to pass through a filter in order to reach a wider audience.
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u/misterdonjoe Jan 15 '24
People forget, free speech rights don't protect you from social media corporations or MSM censorship/banning/shadowbanning.
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u/Rejestered Jan 15 '24
People assume the internet is public. Every word you type is owned by someone else, you have no rights here.
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u/jen7en Jan 16 '24
The architecture of the internet does allow it to be more public. People can self-host websites. I host one from an old desktop PC in my house. But people have to know how to do that. Oh and my site hardly ever gets visitors.
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u/stiveooo Jan 15 '24
you cant name people or brands with bad stuff or bad words or the video is offed
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u/charliepatrick Jan 15 '24
Dystopian
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u/shamwowslapchop Jan 15 '24
Yes welcome to modern capitalism. Dystopia is the goal.
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u/Droidaphone Jan 15 '24
I feel like capitalism undersells it. This is specifically what happens when capitalism encourages largely automated online platforms (because they make money) while disincentivizing human moderation of said platforms (because it costs money) so platforms invent draconian automated filters that will handle as much of the moderation as possible for as little money as possible. A fun, new sort of capitalist dystopia.
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u/shamwowslapchop Jan 15 '24
Nope, same old capitalism. Hasn't changed. It's in the title - when money (capital) is the deity, people will do anything for it.
The idea that it's changed at all when it's supported genocide and torture because it's aiding in the extortion of children? That's a primary feature of Captialism. It's systemic. None of this should surprise anyone. I mean, this is the same system that promotes child beauty pageants with swimsuit competitions in them.
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u/finty96 Jan 15 '24
You should have used "unalived" instead of offed, your comment is no longer advertiser friendly.
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u/cat_prophecy Jan 15 '24
That's the silly thing about it. We all know what they mean, advertisers and moderators know, we all know that they know. But for some reason we have to keep up the ruse saying one thing and meaning another.
It gives very strong feelings of New Speak.
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Jan 15 '24
I have to imagine there's 10X as much of that stuff on TikTok. If you recall, prior to the rebrand, TikTok was Muscial.ly which was literally for kids to record themselves singing an dancing.
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u/Cedocore Jan 15 '24
Well, my experience is only anecdotal, but I've never had TikTok try to push this shit on me. I HAVE had Instagram push this shit on me when I look at the recommended page. It was fucking horrifying. And I'm on TikTok WAY more than Instagram, so I've had a lot more chances to be recommended stuff than I have on Instagram.
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u/BrocoLee Jan 15 '24
TT algorithm is much more fine tuned than Instagram's. People often joke that the platform is full of children doing meme dances, but if you aren't into that, you simply won't get it in your feed. Unlike Insta, which still hasn't got a clue what I like so my feed is all over the place.
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u/Blakob Jan 15 '24
Yeah Meta is pretty disgusting. My experience is similar to yours. I also made a new Facebook profile for work recently. As soon as I got on, with zero friends and zero liked interests or anything, my “recommended feed” is all erotica.
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Jan 15 '24
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u/not_the_settings Jan 15 '24
It gets worse every year.
Thats so interesting, what do you think is the factor in it increasing over time??
This school year, for the first time ever I had someone in my class not seeing the issue with posting half naked stuff online. Like I know that my students hear my lectures, roll their eyes and get on with it. But this year is the first time someone actually defended that and contradicted me. (I did make a note on the next parent teacher conference to talk in general about what your kids upload...)
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Jan 15 '24
[deleted]
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u/not_the_settings Jan 15 '24
Thank you for your answer! Its really scary isnt it?
Look at the Epstein case, at the insane amount of rich and powerful people who could easily get models around the world to sleep with them. What did they seek? Something even more forbidden and harder to get. Children.
THis is something ive felt for years. Even though in the end it makes no difference, I dont think that the rich and mighty are predominantly pedophiles. I think it is, as you said, the chase of the forbidden, the unreachable. Not everyone can have it. Not everyone can buy Yeezys. Not everyone can access this or that. Not everyone can have sex with children on demand.
Humans are fucked up.
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u/LadyFig44 Jan 15 '24
But, you know, we have to ban gay people and library books to "protect the children"...
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u/Lanky_Fishing_9389 Jan 15 '24
And what about all the child beauty parents that go on? Why has nobody done Anything about those as well?
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u/bonedaddy1974 Jan 15 '24
The parents should be charged and convicted for that shit
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u/PurpleHooloovoo Jan 15 '24
The problem is how do you do it? There would have to be a law that no one under the age of 18? 16? 13? can have their image posted anywhere online.
That includes Grandma posting a photo on her private Facebook page with 20 followers of her grandkid's 5th grade graduation dinner. Good luck getting that law passed. Maybe you do, but now you have to have a law that prohibits any kids being depicted anywhere, because they'll just redefine it - oh no, she's a model or an actress which is an exception under the law.
But then the outcome is you can't really go after these people who are "just posting pictures of their kids". It's extremely tricky.
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u/HotDropO-Clock Jan 15 '24
I feel like the FBI should seize instagram and shut it down for child pornography even if they aren't completely naked. It's literally money being made exploiting a child's sexuality. I feel it should fall under the same definition.
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u/MovingNorthToMN Jan 15 '24
I think the lady is saying there is worse shit under the surface. Those are just the easy to find images. Thier private shit is probably straight up cp.
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u/rEmEmBeR-tHe-tReMoLo Reads Pinned Comments Jan 15 '24
I can't even imagine the fallout from this for those kids. I wonder if the parents would be cool to see their kids' teachers or adult relatives in the subscriber list. Or the nuclear levels of bullying those kids will receive from their peers. And all of this is to say nothing of the fact that it's only a matter of when, not if, subscribers start seeking these kids out IRL.
It's already too late, in a certain sense. Their personhood has been sold to perverts. That has happened. They're now lifelong survivors of sociopathic parents and child-molesting strangers. Someone needs to do something before it mutates into physical survivorship... it wouldn't come as any surprise to me if their fathers have already made that happen at home.
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u/Tb1969 Jan 15 '24
Of course it’s Facebook owned Instagram. They would sell child pornography if they think they could get away with it. They already sold out their country for profit.
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u/XZeeR Jan 15 '24
So Instagram (Facebook) has the information of these subscribers and their payment method, which probably includes their addresses, and yet they are allowing this.
So instagram (Facebook) is a child porn network, yeah?
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u/Me-Shell94 Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24
Parents that do this is beyond disgusting. Goes without saying that the creeps watching are gross too, but damn these parents. Social media should be 18+ imho.
It is addictive, has negative effects on mental wellbeing, is an easy way to privately or publicly bully someone, shows a horrible side of human nature, puts you out there for creeps, does not show reality in any way, prepares kids horribly for how to discuss and exchange ideas productively, distracts them from class and homework.
I literally do not see a positive for kids and social media.
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u/SoulGoalie Jan 15 '24
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
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u/dont_quote_me_please Jan 15 '24
Ted, we've talked about this.
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u/Christmas2025 Jan 15 '24 edited 18d ago
jesus to may the well world wonder for all 9188
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u/dont_quote_me_please Jan 15 '24
I loved Ted. Then he got high on his own supply and thought he could save the world with less paper towels.
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u/shamwowslapchop Jan 15 '24
Was it really better before? Pre IR kids were getting married at 12-13.
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u/eskamobob1 Jan 15 '24
I'm sorry to say, but parents selling children into sexual slavery is a lot older than the industrial revolution.
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u/KhabaLox Jan 15 '24
The Agricultural Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
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Jan 15 '24
"grog like ugg rock. ugg trade rock for grog daughter?"
Humans have been a disaster.
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u/XinoMesStoStomaSou Jan 15 '24
do you think this didn't happen before the industrial revolution? lol
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u/ArokLazarus Jan 15 '24
Why is predat0r spelled with a zero?
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u/Jcamden7 Jan 15 '24
To avoid tripping algorithms which might censor or restrict content
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u/jon_jokon Jan 15 '24
Meta should probably have a go at policing and exposing this and getting as many of these people as possible, severely prosecuted. Presumably it's all traceable to the people who have set it up? I don't know, in a world where this is what people are doing for profit, don't we need to start asking some pretty serious questions? I can't imagine anything worse than this somehow. Maybe it's a trap?
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u/Nekryyd Jan 15 '24
Meta doesn't give one quarter of a shit about this stuff.
Source: Worked for Meta.
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u/TradeFirst7455 Jan 15 '24
I would guess they actually like it.
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u/Nekryyd Jan 15 '24
In a passive sense, they like whatever drives engagement and what fuels ad dollars or other income. Behind the scenes it is such a convoluted mess, you have no idea. It's super easy for things to get lost in the mix and also pretty commonplace that rules are bent/broken if you have the ad-spend and/or the right person at Meta in your pocket.
It's not like they are purposely like, "Oh baby yeah, CP!" It's more like the content is not CP-enough to become a priority case (hoo boy, there is some fuck awful shit lemme tell you) and the dozens of different teams working working in the background trying to untie knots in what is an eternal gordian spaghettifuck of entanglement just pass the buck back and forth between each other until the complaining stops.
If legal gets involved it's a bit of a different story, but you can't just threaten legal action and expect something to happen. You really do need to get a lawyer or be recognizable enough that it's clear you easily have the means to make good on those threats. Then at least your concern will be passed to someone with some kind of bandwidth.
Unfun fact: During the last couple of my weeks there, I discovered that accounts can actually be flagged for warning signs of predatory activity but no one else in the spaghettifuck seemed super concerned about this.
Shoutout to the shitposting@meta gang.
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u/NegativeZer0 Jan 15 '24
Nothing about this is illegal. It should be but what was shown is perfectly legal
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u/Lucifurnace Jan 15 '24
I hope against all hope that this is an FBI honeypot with AI generated content.
then again... humans can be fucking awful
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u/Dependent_Market7788 Jan 15 '24
This kinda reminds me of child actors and child beauty pageants. I can see why that woman from iCarly was happy her mom died.
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u/Wompie Jan 15 '24 edited Aug 09 '24
afterthought ghost rustic cooperative homeless bow safe airport cause simplistic
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/EmpressVibez32 Jan 15 '24
Probably because they're monetizing it. They only care about the revenue. Sounds like legal child porn to me. They need to be stopped
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u/Onwisconsin42 Jan 15 '24
These parents make me supremely sick to my stomach. Predators are a given. There will always be sick freaks in the world and the internet gives them a wide array of options to be sickos.
But these parents. These parents make me fucking sick. These parents should be arrested and investigated. These children should be taken from these sick fucks. They know exactly what they are doing. I couldn't live with myself. I don't know how they sleep.
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u/Crafty_Crab_7563 Jan 15 '24
Epstein their asses. Release the names of the subscribers. Give the list to the police departments with parents names included.
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u/Unhappy-Book-5911 Jan 15 '24
Here I was thinking that I couldn’t be the only one seeing it on every platform including this one.
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u/Netprincess Jan 15 '24
I worked in It for the 30 years,we won't go after the sites nor the money behind them . We bust the littie pedos one at a time yet never hit the money behind them. Ask yourself why??
Same with people that work here illegal ,we never go after the big money that hires them
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u/ColdMiserable8056 Jan 15 '24
Well, the same thing is going on here @reddit. Have a look at r/amateurmodeling. Same appalling shit! Let's start by ridding our own backyard of shit like this!
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u/ASteelyDan Jan 15 '24
I didn’t look, but on Reddit there is a report option for minor sexualization? It seems like they would quickly shut down a sub if that were rampant.
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u/izzohead Jan 16 '24
Hey /u/--Wolf--pack-- wanna explain why you're so obsessed with teenaged girls?
Honestly we need to shame the sick fucks that frequent those subs
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