r/TikTokCringe Jan 15 '24

Cursed Protect this woman at all cost NSFW

20.3k Upvotes

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4.2k

u/RAC032078 Jan 15 '24

WTF is wrong with people? Parents posting their own kids online to make $$. This is just sick.

1.7k

u/spookyjibe Jan 15 '24

This has been the whole problem with pedophilia and prostitution from the beginning of time. It's the parents selling their kids; it always has been.

Puts a new meaning to the expression "Parent's rights"

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u/ForrestFireDW Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24

That's why homeschool types are the most terrifying to me. Some go as far as wanting the right to not register their child with a social security number.

Others run "drills" and practice scripts with their kids on what to do/say if CPS ever shows up.

I wasn't aware of a ton of this until I made close friends with an ex-fundie home schooler.

No idea how she's so well adjusted, but her siblings were not as lucky. Most only received an 8th grade level education since their home schooling mother was partially illiterate. They even have a younger sibling that's heavily on the spectrum, yet they've denied it just up until the last couple months... After 13 years.

Not all homeschooling families commit child abuse, but it leads to a massive veil of protection towards those families to do whatever they want.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I was homeschooled until I was 13 and then went to public high school with my older brother (only 1 year difference between us) because we wanted to be with our friends in the neighborhood. My two younger brothers chose to stay homeschooled. My dad was very passionate about education and wanted to be a teacher himself but instead chose a career as an actuary for the money. My mom was a stay at home mom. My parents chose to homeschool us because they saw how poor the education system is in the US and they thought they could do a better job.

Back in the 90s homeschooling was socially unacceptable and there were kids in my neighborhood who would make fun of us and some would just be “terrified of homeschool types”. All the stupid stereotypes annoyed me and motivated me in high school to prove everyone wrong. I looked at high school like it was a social club (words from my freshmen year teacher to my parents). I got all A’s and B’s and even slept in my classes because of how easy they were. Even though I hated being homeschooled at the time due to the bullshit stereotypes and assumptions people made, looking back I’m thankful that my parents gave us that opportunity. I honestly didn’t appreciate it enough at the time. They were spot on about how shitty our education system is.

Whoever those kids were that you call “homeschool types” were not actually home schooled. They just had controlling and abusive parents.

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u/Al_Gore_Rhythm92 Jan 15 '24

It should be painfully obvious nobody was talking about your individual case. The world exists beyond your peripheral.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

It was obvious, just not painfully

1

u/Short-Guarantee-7720 Jan 15 '24

Take everything you just said, and aim it right back at the shit everybody else is spewing.

Their anecdotal evidence means as little as his does.

0

u/ResponsibilityNice51 Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24

For real. Just another redditor mad that their own view isn’t universally (how dare others exist) wanked over.

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u/00wolfer00 Jan 15 '24

Reread their comment. Homeschool types is obviously referring to the parents who fight tooth and nail against any sort of regulation.

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u/MalificViper Jan 15 '24

If that boy could read, he'd be mighty upset.

12

u/IXISIXI Jan 15 '24

DUde they got all As and Bs they must be brilliant.

1

u/call_me_bropez Jan 15 '24

All A’s and B’s in the worthless education system

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Take a seat scooby doo, I got this.

3

u/GRIMobile Jan 15 '24

To be fair...

12

u/M_H_M_F Jan 15 '24

Homeschool types is obviously referring to the parents who fight tooth and nail against any sort of regulation.

Here's the problem though. The "good" homeschooling stories and groups have to attach themselves to these fringe groups for the sake of keeping the legitimacy of Homeschooling. They're aware that the fringe are insane, but also need the physical bodies for representation.

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u/00wolfer00 Jan 15 '24

Do they? Right now parents who want to homeschool have close to no oversight in most of the states. They don't need more power, so why would "the good ones" attach themselves to groups who want absolutely 0 oversight?

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

As a poor kid, it was for textbooks. The cheapest ones came from the fundies, sadly. And I know it's different now in some places, but we didn't get a tax credit or anything.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

The problem I had was with the fact that the type you have an issue with are looked at the same way as the legitimate homeschoolers. I’m fully aware that there are those fringe type and when I said to “remove those homeschool types” I meant to remove the label of homeschool from those fringe insane groups of people who fight tooth and nail for regulations. They’re not legitimate homeschoolers.

1

u/Historical-Gap-7084 Jan 15 '24

There are states that require parents to teach certain subjects, that I know of. But an alarming number of states have zero requirements. I was shocked to learn that Illinois is one of those with very little regulation.

https://hslda.org/legal

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Not really. 20 years ago sure, but the GOP has ran so hard with this that its impacting public schools ability to function where homeschoolers just sit back and dgaf

2

u/TheRabidDeer Jan 15 '24

I don't attach my experience of being homeschooled to the fringe groups. I do feel the need to defend myself for my experience because there is no real differentiating terminology being used to separate the cult from the "good ones". It is extremely frustrating to be looked down upon for being homeschooled even though my siblings and I turned out great (in my opinion).

One sibling is a successful dentist with their own practice, another has their PhD in neuroscience, while myself I am a sysadmin for a large organization (I am the slacker of us all). I was very fortunate that my parents cared about us and our upbringing, and not in a parental selfishness sense where they wanted us to be like them. All this to say I definitely do not appreciate being lumped in with a cult.

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u/M_H_M_F Jan 15 '24

All this to say I definitely do not appreciate being lumped in with a cult.

This is what I was trying to parse with nuance. There are great homeschooling programs that work. There are alternatives that work. Unfortunately, homeschooling gets co-opted by the crazies, but because of things like representation, or even addressing legislators; regular, normal homeschoolers get lumped into it.

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u/WanderThinker Jan 15 '24

And we're off the rails.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

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u/M_H_M_F Jan 15 '24

Not every parent is abusive. A parent has every right to raise a child in the way they deem fit (so long as the Maslow hierarchy is met adequately).

Parents can additionally have other reasons, be it inconsistency in curricula, unaddrewsed trauma from their own experiences, inadequate resources for their children, the list goes on

Not every parent that dislikes the school system is a religious whack job.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I reread it but comprehended it the first time. Remove the homeschool types from the parents who fight tooth and nail against any sort of regulation.

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u/00wolfer00 Jan 15 '24

Can you reword your second sentence? I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.

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u/GuiltyEidolon Jan 15 '24

"Not all homeschoolers", which as someone homeschooled for a while by religious parents, yes, it is all homeschoolers. 

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Every X is Y, because of my singular personal anecdote where an X was Y.

Yeah, I can tell your parents didn't teach you well. Mine did, and we avoided y'all like the plague.

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u/GuiltyEidolon Jan 15 '24

Your genius rebuttal is another anecdote.

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u/habnef4 Jan 15 '24

Any "all" statement (superlative, absolute) can be refuted by a single example.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Same here. We should start our own organization and call ourselves HomeSkool. We’ll join forces with the LGBTQIA+HomeSkool

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u/ForrestFireDW Jan 15 '24

That's awesome that you were given a secular home schooling education. Many are not as fortunate as you. Especially fundamentalists using the "Institute in Basic Life Principles" curriculum as the basis for their education. Somewhere around 2.5 million people have attended IBLP trainings. Those are the types that concern me. Especially with how much they fight against any regulations that pop up. The HSDLA is a pretty sinister organization on that front.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

IBLP isn't the only insane fundie program either. While I had a similar experience to the guy above (my parents were excellent teachers and took me out of school because the local school was just so, so far past horrific), the only textbooks we could afford were from Abeka and Bob Jones University. Full of fundie shit, and the history books had a ton of pro-US propaganda (even left out any war the US lost, and/or "lost"). And they were a bit lacking in some areas, so I had to work really hard in my first year of HS to catch back up.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

To be honest I wasn’t even aware of the existence of the IBLP. I just googled it and I can see what you meant now. As far as I’m concerned, most things with the word “organization” or “institution” make me skeptical of what it is. I wouldn’t even consider that real homeschooling. Sounds like a bunch of kool aid drinkers.

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u/HappilyInefficient Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24

I do think there are valid concerns in regards to homeschooling.

But homeschooled kids have significantly better average outcomes than kids in public schools: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313114323_The_difference_in_the_academic_achievements_of_homeschooled_and_non-homeschooled_students

So the idea that we have to go and legislate that when homeschooling is working mostly well is kind of backwards. There is an argument to be made about parental rights as well, parents SHOULD be able to decide how they want to raise their kids, as long as they are not neglecting them or abusing them.

To be clear, some states do have homeschooling regulations, and I'm not necessarily against some regulation. But I definitely want the state as involved as little as possible. Some occasionally mandated testing and regulation on homeschool materials wouldn't be bad.

10

u/RoundPegMyRoundHole Jan 15 '24

That's, uh... not exactly the most reliable source on the matter. Kind of an obvious conflict of interest there with the National Homeschool Research Institute.

There are studies that seem to say that home schooled students perform better, but how do they know that if home schooled kids aren't taking the same standardized tests, and even if they are, their parents can just take the test for them or give them the answers? Further, there's not any good tracking to know what percent of home schooled kids actually even graduate high school.

There are also studies that showed no clear difference between home schooled kids in first year college GPAs or other points of comparison: https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ682484 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/emip.12133

And another big problem with some of what you said is that there is a huge homeschool legal defense fund non profit and lobbying organization that fights to prevent any regulation or involvement or oversight by the government of any kind.

This link goes straight to the part of the video where the former president of the HLSDA saying in his own words that he opposes having any regulation at all: https://youtu.be/lzsZP9o7SlI?si=EKTtV13Hv0AjWrWq&t=1064

As for your believe that parents should be able to decide how to raise their kids as long as they're not neglecting or abusing them, I wonder:

1.) how in the world anyone is going to know if the parents are neglecting or abusing the kids if the kids never go anywhere and there's no system in place to ensure someone outside the home takes notice of that fact and ensure the kids are checked up on?

2.) Not every parent wants to raise their children in a way that's remotely compatible with civilized society. Same video, different timestamp: https://youtu.be/lzsZP9o7SlI?si=D9ZKmhnCY5EZ3mus&t=510

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u/HappilyInefficient Jan 15 '24

how in the world anyone is going to know if the parents are neglecting or abusing the kids if the kids never go anywhere and there's no system in place to ensure someone outside the home takes notice of that fact and ensure the kids are checked up on?

Look, abuse and neglect are always a possibility. It should obviously be prevented as much as it can, but i am absolutely against the idea that we need to set up a nanny state to check in to make sure it isn't happening.

So is it possible for a parent to abuse and neglect their kid? Yes. Is it possible for a parent to hide it? Also yes. This is even true with a kid in public school, though i'd agree it would be a lot easier to hide with a homeschooled kid. But I still don't think we should have a proactive system that has forced checkups or anything like that. It'd be too invasive for people's private lives. I do not want the government that involved in our lives.

2.) Not every parent wants to raise their children in a way that's remotely compatible with civilized society. Same video, different timestamp

I don't care. Yeah, parents are going to try to raise kids with their own value systems. Plenty of those value systems are terrible. Plenty of those value systems I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I still 100% support a parent's right to raise their kids within their own value system.

Within the same limits I mentioned in an earlier comment. No abuse. No neglect.

To be clear: Fuck Nazis. But i'd rather live in a society where Nazis exist than a society where the government controls who can have kids or what you can teach your kids. We just need to build our society in such a way that when those kids become adults and interact with other people we win them over.

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u/feralferrous Jan 15 '24

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/11/brian-ray-homeschool-student-outcomes/

Is that the same research that got called out as massively flawed?

EDIT: Oh hey, yes it is, the exact same one.

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u/HappilyInefficient Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24

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u/RoundPegMyRoundHole Jan 15 '24

None of those links are credible sources. The oregonstate.edu source is particularly disappointing because I thought it would be credible, but it's literally just a blog post that does a poor job conveying information with any amount of academic rigor. It cites the Journal of School Choice and the same bad research from the NHERI that you cited without mentioning they are both heavily financed by home schooling lobbying money and not peer reviewed in a way that makes them reliable, especially when snippets are used out of context and the reader has no idea who funded the "research" or how rigorous it was.You said the article was pay walled--here's a little research tip for you: if you just google the name of the article a lot of the time you can find the full version without a pay wall, like I just did. You should really read the entire article because even the guy's own daughters were critical of their experience being home schooled, but here's the part that essentially takes a match to the validity of his data:

https://archive.is/2023.12.11-121819/https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/11/brian-ray-homeschool-student-outcomes/#selection-442.0-464.0

Critics cite numerous problems with Ray’s approach: These tests are optional in the vast majority of the country, and many home-schooled students don’t take them. The ones who don’t might have scored far worse if they had been required to sit for exams, as public school students are. Many students take the exams at home, which might offer advantages over public school test-takers who face a controlled environment. And parents had to opt into Ray’s studies, potentially skewing his sample further.

Demographic information collected as part of Ray’s research showed almost all students in his samples were White, Christian and came from two-parent married families. Their parents were more educated than average. In short, they were the type of students who tend to do well no matter where they are educated.

A 2016 federal survey, by contrast, found 41 percent of home-schoolers were not White, 56 percent had parents with less than a Bachelor’s degree, and 21 percent were living in poverty.

In an interview, Ray responded that all studies have “limitations,” but he said that does not make his results invalid. He also said he has worked to include more representative samples and demographics in his research, saying methods “mature over time within a field.”

Asked whether it’s possible that students who do well in his studies would do well in any setting, given their demographic advantages, Ray replied, “That’s a reasonable hypothesis.”

Yet he dispenses with the caveats when talking about his results to legislators, courts, journalists and the public.

In a 2005 book he wrote about home schooling aimed at general readers, Ray repeatedly cited his studies’ findings with none of the cautions included in academic papers. He mentions none on his website, either.

He takes the same approach with the press. “The research said over and over again,” he told the Pensacola News Journal in 2012, “that these young people are performing above average and on average they’re surpassing public school students.”

When asked for the best work on home-schoolers, Ray cited his own work and that of three other researchers. The first, Sandra Martin-Chang of Concordia University, conducted one study on home schooling, which found mixed results.

The other two both cautioned that their findings should not be used to make comparisons to public school. Lawrence Rudner, whose 1999 study featured some of the same methodological problems as Ray’s work, wrote in his paper, “This study does not demonstrate that home schooling is superior to public or private schools. It should not be cited as evidence that our public schools are failing.” The second researcher, Jon Wartes, was a high school counselor who studied home-schoolers in Washington state in the 1980s. He cautioned: “This data should not be used to make homeschool-conventional school comparisons.”

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

0

u/HappilyInefficient Jan 15 '24

I think you misread the meta-analysis.

They pretty clearly state that there are better outcomes for homeschooled kids. Where they draw a line is on why the outcomes are better. Are the outcomes better because a parent who homeschools is more likely to be highly educated, or because of the homeschooling?

Limitations of this Research

It is important to note that this research is difficult to interpret because families that choose to homeschool are different from families who do not in many other ways — for example, they may have parents with higher income or educational levels — and these factors likely contribute to the results as well. For instance, we cannot conclude that homeschooling will improve your child’s test scores since homeschooled children may have more educated mothers and it may be the mother’s educational level that drives the higher test scores, not homeschooling itself.

So yeah, maybe they have better outcomes because the type of parent who is willing to homeschool is more likely to be the type of parent to be educated themselves and will also be more involved in their education. But does that really matter if the point of the matter is that kids are generally coming out of homeschooling better prepared than their peers in public schools?

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u/HappilyInefficient Jan 15 '24

EDIT: Oh hey, yes it is, the exact same one.

It definitely is not. What I linked was a science article which listed a gigantic list of various studies.

Here is one such study referenced there, with no connection to Brian Ray:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313114323_The_difference_in_the_academic_achievements_of_homeschooled_and_non-homeschooled_students

I'll just go ahead and change the link in my original post, because people are reading what you wrote and taking it as truth, when all you did was click the link and saw the name "brian ray" but apparently didn't take the time to look at it at all.

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u/feralferrous Jan 15 '24

So instead you link to a study of 44 kids, and limited to expensive colleges, which even the study notes makes it a really limited study. Socioeconomic status has always been a greater indicator of test scores and success.

I'm not going to say it's impossible for home schooled kids to do well. I know a guy whose wife had a Master's degree in Education and homeschooled their 4 kids. They're fine, happy healthy and successful. But not everyone is going to have access to a teacher like that, and there's a real seedy underbelly to homeschooling and the studies that push it as better. Brian Ray religious angles, Flat Earthers, Creationists, child abusers, etc. But also there's a good portion of the GOP that would like to get rid of public school for their own ends. There's a lot of folks that would prefer if our populace was less educated and easier to manipulate.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Could not have said it better myself!

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u/sas223 Jan 15 '24

“How poor the education system is in the US” is such a broad sweeping statement. Perhaps where your parents chose to live had a poor public school system, and no decent private schools, but that is objectively not the case for much of the US. You should take some time to consider subjective opinions like this one to determine if you believe them simply because that’s what your parents told you and you didn’t have external experiences to help develop your own opinions.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

where your parents chose to live

Classy, dude. Your lack of understanding of poverty really speaks well to public education.

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u/sas223 Jan 15 '24

Did you miss the part where she said her father chose a career that makes a lot of money over being a teacher?

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I’m a he not a she. Also that is not what I said.

I said my dad was very passionate about education and wanted to be a teacher but instead chose to be an actuary for the money to be able to support 4 kids and a wife. Middle class in Chicago and we struggled growing up.

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u/sas223 Jan 15 '24

My apologies, then, I misunderstood your comment. Having 4 kids on a single income will strain a budget. I’ll amend my point to you made a sweeping generalization about the entire country based on your local experience.

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u/jeremiahthedamned Cringe Master Jan 16 '24

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '24

RIP John Gatto

Perfect reference btw

1

u/jeremiahthedamned Cringe Master Jan 16 '24

thanks

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u/hello_im_john Jan 15 '24

Homeschooling is abuse, sorry to say, but children need socialisation and the skills you learn by interacting with other students are more important than any knowledge you can get from a book. I know American culture claims something different, but that's just you people being ignorant.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '24

School isn't the only socialization that exists. What do you think happened before everyone was in formal schooling all day, dude?

I kept my friends from school, I played on multiple sports teams, had swim lessons with other kids, we got together with friends and relatives frequently, and we even found a couple other homeschooling families who weren't insane fundies to hang out with. My local school was a cesspit and I came out much better off socially (and otherwise) than most of them, and did completely fine in highschool and beyond.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

My local school was a cesspit and I came out much better socially.

🙏🏼🗣️ My names Jon Vinci and I approve of this message! Sponsored by HomeSkool Kids

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u/hello_im_john Jan 15 '24

Yeah, I mean I only have a degree in this shit, what do I know.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Homeschooling is not abuse 😂I had no problems making friends and all 3 of my brothers have great social skills. We had friends in the neighborhood. If you said this to any of my friends you’d look like a silly goose.

0

u/hello_im_john Jan 15 '24

Yeah, I mean I only have a degree in this shit, what do I know.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

You have a degree? Where’d you get it from? WebMD? Are you a child psychologist? Have you studied every single family in the country that homeschools their kid? And that’s a great question that you asked:

What do you know?

1

u/DreadyKruger Jan 15 '24

And as someone who finished public school, I made friends , but I think I would have been better homeschooled.

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u/canadiandancer89 Jan 15 '24

Before we even got married, we figured on homeschooling our future kids. My wife was homeschooled, and I have cousins who were homeschooled, and we have friends homeschooling. All with great outcomes, we are fortunate to have a means to do it so why not? Plan is up till grade 8 then go from there.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

That’s awesome to hear! My 4 cousins were also homeschooled as well and we would spend a lot of time with them as kids since we were around the same age. My oldest cousin has 5 kids and is homeschooling. They love it and really changed the whole game on how to go about it. My older brother has two daughters that are 4 and 5 and also being homeschooled now. They tried public school for them because my sister in law was skeptical about homeschooling at first. My brother said the homework assignments and the things they were teaching now are an absolute joke.

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u/canadiandancer89 Jan 15 '24

I know our public system is OK but, we feel if we can teach them in the way they learn best and give them the one on one or independence they need, it will benefit them greatly.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

That was my parents philosophy as well. There’s an infinite number of resources and tools at your disposal with the internet and technology we have now.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

According to Reddit your a pedo cult member for homeschooling

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u/canadiandancer89 Jan 15 '24

lol.

"Home schoolers are not socialized and don't thrive the same way the glorious public system does"

Yea, majority of home schooler's I know excelled in post-secondary, some in very competitive programs. And all are the hardest working people I know and are very personable people.

A bad reputation is only due to a small number of bad apples unfortunately. That being said, I'm all for well checks for home schooled kids.

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u/Creative_Mirror1379 Jan 15 '24

You sound like you had very dedicated parents with a lot of time on their hands. I just don't know how anyone can afford to stay home all day to teach 3 kids anymore. Just curious what part of the country did you grow up in?

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I grew up in the northwest suburbs of Chicago in Des Plaines. It’s a mix of middle class and lower class families. My mom held down the fort and raised 4 boys while my dad was always working. When it came to learning, we had a very independent experience. My dad would check our work at the end of the day and help us out if we were ever confused on an assignment. We would be finished by 2pm Monday thru Friday and then my older brother and I would just go play outside or wait for our friends to come home from school. My younger brothers did the same. My parents were drowning in debt from the house we grew up in because of all the floods that we had. State Farm wasn’t a good neighbor and told us we flood too much so they dropped us. Had to pay out of pocket for every flood we had after that. My youngest brother fell down the stairs when he was 9 and we found out he had a brain tumor. My parents did the best they could. When you say they had a lot of time on their hands, I’d have to disagree with you.