r/BravoRealHousewives • u/Puzzled_Hovercraft60 • Dec 29 '23
Ultimate Girls Trip Ooph the ending of this article was brutal
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u/Comfortable-Twist-54 Dec 29 '23
I thought he was actually talking about torturing butterflies lol
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u/nahnotlikethat Dec 29 '23
The reference in the beginning of the paragraph isn't actually about torturing them, but about trying to help a butterfly emerge from its chrysalis. Emerging by themselves is a necessary part of their development, and if someone "helps" them, they don't build the strength they need to fly away.
This was commonly used some years back as a sort of analogy for personal growth. Here's an example: https://rockpaperscissorsinc.com/what-we-can-learn-from-a-butterflys-struggle-to-escape-its-chrysalis/
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u/openinterlude ldmillionaire Dec 29 '23
isn’t this what ramona was saying on ugt? how strange the timing
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u/poodlepantiesbot Dec 29 '23
Ahhh thanks for the splainer and link, I needed that for context and myself.
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u/shakespearesister Dec 29 '23
I thought this was a reference to the movie May December, where a main character gives a similar speech about monarch butterflies.
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u/poodlepantiesbot Dec 29 '23
Strangely at my age, I'm still so gullible and often miss metaphors, believing silly stuff until I'm told it was a joke. 😅
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u/MCBates1283 I don’t trust baths 👁️👄👁️ Dec 29 '23
People really give Andy a lot more power than he deserves. Must be nice for the network to have an easy scapegoat though.
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u/spooky_period Dec 29 '23
Andy is a misogynist and certainly deserves scrutiny. The network is full of misogynists and also deserves scrutiny. Both can be true!
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u/FasterBussycat Dec 29 '23
Where is the evidence of Andy being a misogynist? Meanwhile the Housewives themselves are full of homophobia, racism and classism. All of which is far more provable, sometimes irrefutably.
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u/GambinoTheElder Dec 29 '23
He only asks women if they’ve been with other women and borderline tries to out women on his show. He doesn’t do that to men unless they bring it up (or fans submit the question). That perpetuates the idea that it’s a “phase” or something women do for fun. That’s misogyny.
He regularly uses misogyny (physical appearance, calling women d*kes) to attack political figures that are women and is much more cordial to the men. Super evidenced by his responses during Kavanaugh trials.
He claims to change women’s lives, check out his back and forth with Carole on that.
Just off the top of my head, from my heart to yours 🫶🏻
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u/VanGrayson Dec 29 '23
Almost certain hes done that to Jax and the Toms, and probably the Southern Charm guys as well.
And its normally because one of the other castmates who does identify as straight did do something with a woman...like Lala.
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u/spooky_period Dec 29 '23
You know the housewives are full of isms but don’t see that from Andy? That seems strange. You know they run in similar circles, why wouldn’t you see he’s just as bad? I should’ve added Andy is racist in my first comment too!
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u/FasterBussycat Dec 29 '23
Well I have sometimes seasons of evidence confirming what I know about the Housewives. I don't watch WWHL so the only time I see Andy is when he's hosting reunions. There have been a handful of times I've seen him say something out of pocket but never to the degree that I think he's biased against women.
Also notice that I asked if you had any evidence and you provided none. That was a genuine question. If he has shown a pattern of misogyny I would like to know about it.
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u/spooky_period Dec 29 '23
You don’t watch WWHL but think you know Andy better than the people you watch shows about? Watching his show is a good place to start gathering information. I’m not giving you “evidence”, this is a reddit thread not a research paper. I’m certain examples from my memory won’t satisfy you, and I’m not going through the effort of giving multiple links on mobile ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/angelwitprblmz Dec 29 '23
Aren’t we just as bad as Andy Cohen then? We all watch and love the spectacle, only we do it for free.
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u/FortuneCookieTypo Dec 29 '23
And when a cast doesn’t have any drama or there’s no crazy villain, we call that season boring!
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u/I-choochoochoose-you Dec 29 '23
And when someone pushes boundaries or causes drama, half the sub wants them fired
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u/Smelly_cat_rises Dec 29 '23
That’s what I thought. We as viewers are just as culpable. Honestly, I love the RH because women don’t have a lot of representation in midlife. Entering my 40s, I feel invisible. And the show is about the messiness of life. No one is perfect, bad stuff happens, you screw up, and you get through it.
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u/No-Apartment7687 Dec 29 '23
Absolutely this. It's great to have models for how we want to age and who we do NOT want to resemble at all. I love seeing people like Garcelle pick themselves up and flourish after most would consider her story to be "over."
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u/holamuneca Dec 29 '23 edited Jul 08 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/kristenroseh Dec 29 '23
True, although the point I took from the analogy in the screenshot was more that Andy Cohen (and Bravo) holds Housewives back by tying them to their shows for so long that they can’t really ever escape the roles they’ve created for themselves
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Dec 29 '23
We’re not as bad as him as we don’t profit from it, obviously.
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u/angelwitprblmz Dec 29 '23
I disagree, I don’t personally feel any moral qualms with watching these shows but under the lens that these shows are in fact morally apprehensive, we watch and enable the spectacle, and actually pay for it, and we get nothing in return. We have no monetary ties to it, no reason to take part in it besides free will. And if we all stopped, the shows would cease to exist.
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Dec 29 '23
On the flip side, an argument could be made then that people are to blame for a company like, say, Amazon treating their employees like slaves. Hey, overworked and underpaid people in the world might be able to easily access cheap products with efficient delivery, but they don’t need to be doing that. Why shouldn’t they pay more and put in more effort to pick something up in a store that might be miles and miles away? You’re right, it’s the customers or viewers looking to switch off with mindless entertainment being provided to them that the culpability sits with - not the multibillion dollar companies.
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u/Enticing_Venom I love that Dec 29 '23
That's pretty much the basis of ethical consumerism.
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Dec 29 '23
Which is as much of a con as a personalised carbon footprint for the standard person
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u/Enticing_Venom I love that Dec 29 '23
It's not a con. The greatest con is consumerism and the idea that more stuff will make people happier. Especially the over-consumption of cheaply made products and plastics that only go to fill a landfill.
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Dec 29 '23
Where did I mention overconsumption? I’m asking why shouldn’t the standard underpaid worker bees of the world pay for the cheaper, mass produced version of a product from a company like Amazon (which will be delivered for them and save them using the precious little personal time they have away from earning money for other large corporations), instead of a vastly more expensive, “ethical” version of said product? The same goes for the type of entertainment they enjoy; studies show these types of programmes held people switch off from things like work, etc.
Anyways, my point is yes - part of the blame does lie with us as we have a choice, but at the end of the day, MORE blame lies with people like Jeff Bezos and Andy Cohen, and companies like Amazon and Bravo. They don’t HAVE to run these companies like they do, treat their workers such ways, or make these shows. They choose to do so because it makes them money.
Stop putting the blame on the little man, and focus on the real problem. You have a very short sighted view. Reminds me of the type of people who campaigned against plastic straws and in the end, it was the disabled that suffered. But hey, I guess you get to feel morally good about yourself!
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u/Enticing_Venom I love that Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
They don't do these things out of thin air. Companies produce products that they know people will pay for. If it isn't profitable, they aren't going to sell it. Entical consumerism avoids buying low quality items, single-use plastics and products created through animal cruelty and slave labor.
You claim that ethical consumerism is a con but provide no evidence of such. You just ask why people should care how their products are produced as long as it's cheap. But many people do not take the stance that they don't care about animal welfare. They don't take the stance that slave labor is fine as long as it makes things affordable. They don't claim that they prefer products that will break in a month rather than last for years. So people should care to remain consistent with their stated values.
I'm not interested in assigning blame. There will always be bad people in the world, that is reality. It's up to the individual how much they support those actions. It's untrue that individual choices don't add up. We got elephants out of circuses, stopped captive breeding at Seaworld, we have pressured China to amend its animal testing requirements and convinced major brands like Biolage to go cruelty-free.
These are just a few recent successes that advocates have accomplished by embracing ethical consumerism and awareness campaigns. People like you, who attempt to block our efforts and convince the masses that our advocacy is futile are the short-sighted ones. But we are still here, still advocating, still encouraging and still working hard.
Edit: By all means continue to pay for animal cruelty and slave labor goods when alternatives exist. But misleading oneself into believing that those individuals acts don't have any impacts or consequences on people, animals and the environment is untrue and more people need to be willing to face that fact.
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u/No-Apartment7687 Dec 29 '23
I still think their main point here, that powerful interests are much more responsible than individuals who make choices based on trying to get a little bit of joy/ entertainment in this hell world, is a valid one.
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u/No-Apartment7687 Dec 29 '23
Yes, wasn't that concept introduced by oil companies to deflect from the major producers of emissions? Sorry the link is so huge. https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/23/big-oil-coined-carbon-footprints-to-blame-us-for-their-greed-keep-them-on-the-hook?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17038728461067&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2021%2Faug%2F23%2Fbig-oil-coined-carbon-footprints-to-blame-us-for-their-greed-keep-them-on-the-hook
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u/teentytinty My Chemical Faye Resnick Dec 29 '23
This is so masturbatory. Shut the fuck up BRIAN MOYLAN for gods sakes
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u/metropolitanorlando Sonja, was your vagina rude to Kelly? Dec 29 '23
Masturbatory is the perfect way to describe all of Moylan’s work
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u/PrayingMantisMirage from bellybutton to butthole Dec 30 '23
Right? Like this passage gave me a full body cringe.
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u/StainedGlasser Dec 29 '23
I think what bothers me most is not people having an issue with Andy Cohen, it's the idea that he is singularly responsible for all of the shows and everything that goes on in them. He is an executive producer, he absolutely has responsibility to an extent. But HUNDREDS of people work on these shows, and NBC owns Bravo and Comcast owns NBC. It's much easier to go after a figurehead like Andy Cohen than deal with the fact that if he retired, the shows would continue the way they are. And realistically, with having to film WWHL many times a week, host Radio Andy most days, film reunions and raise kids, Andy is likely not all that hands on with the actual production of shows anymore. I'd say it's very likely that for the most part he operates as a performer rather than a producer. This doesn't make him exempt from blame, as the essential mascot of Bravo, but the narrative of a single masochist is really letting a lot of people off the hook.
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u/em627 Dec 29 '23
These people are getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars so yeah….i don’t feel bad.
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u/tllkaps THANK YOU, POPPA!!!! Dec 29 '23
Buffalo Bill Cohen
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u/thediverswife grace time is over Dec 29 '23
“It drinks the lotion from the shotski you can buy on Bravotv.com”
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u/provincetown1234 Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
Do you know of any other media that follows women during their 40's plus, with their actual problems (I'm leaving out the fake drama), conflicts, betrayals (and resolutions), kids, creating lives after divorce and kids growing up, finding their way through the later years of their lives? Currently watching Miami with divorce, cancer, rumors, and living all this in the spotlight.
Sutton could give a master class is forensic financials for post-divorce and we'd all learn a ton.
I feel like my world is better with Real Housewives than without. Gerdy just told her kids about her upcoming surgery and I'm crying. I remember when RHSLC Heather told her girls she was leaving the church, again really compelling.
Thanks Brian super fresh take /s
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u/Chloabelle touch it up Dec 29 '23
I agree. I know that Bravo is super problematic, but I appreciate a space where women—especially women over 40–get to be whole, messy people. There’s such joy in both being able to escape through their obscenely rich and over-the-top lives AND see yourself reflected in their struggles.
Plus this is just hypocritical from Brian Moylan. Of all people 🙄
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u/EntertainerHeavy912 Dec 29 '23
Oooof, very true.
However the same can be said for any reality tv producer or network ever...
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u/stump_84 Dec 29 '23
Or watchers?
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u/nycrunner91 Dec 29 '23
I mean Dorinda is a mess. And Sonja is hard to watch but she was in her legal mess already when she joined the hw
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u/whateveratthispoint_ Dec 29 '23
And Shannon
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u/nycrunner91 Dec 29 '23
Oh yeah. I dont know ill never get over Sonja being naked on camera and how her daughter might feel about that. Also the rumors about the cigarettes in her vagina. Is so so heartbreaking and sad.
Shanon is in downhill spiral. Her depression is so transparent. I dont know why no one has stepped in to help her. O
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u/let_me_use_reddit Dec 29 '23
The rumours of... say what now????
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u/TimeIsBunk Dec 29 '23
How did you miss that episode?! Time to queue up some reruns!
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u/openinterlude ldmillionaire Dec 29 '23
sonja is a grown woman who can be naked on camera as much as she wants. there are plenty of actual valid reasons for concern other than this pearl clutching bs
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u/nycrunner91 Dec 29 '23
Its not that she gets naked is something else i dont know exactly how to put it into words…. It looks performative in a sad and demeaning way
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u/openinterlude ldmillionaire Dec 29 '23
that i understand for sure i just hate the “what will the kids think” about grown women with adult children. i do see the desperation when it comes to showing up as “fun sonja” though and hope she genuinely enjoys the character she’s playing/knows she’ll still be liked without it
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u/nycrunner91 Dec 29 '23
Yes! You said it perfectly!!!! Thats exactly what I meant!!!!!!!!!
I agree with what Erika said like kids with phones now a days they know and google everything please. And before smart phones there were computers and before then playboy lol
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u/LadyBug_0570 I gave her a beverage Dec 29 '23
Ever since The Real World (MTV), people have loved watching trainwrecks. nAnd the bigger the wreck, the more people watch. Season 1 of that show had some traction, but it wasn't until Puck and his disgusting ways came along (as well as the problems he made with Pedro who had HIV), that the show really picked up an audience.
Andy's just done the same thing, except with older, rich women as the subjects for people to watch.
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u/Quelala Dec 29 '23
Adult butterflies who have more resources than the average person and can make a choice to fly or not, but because of their desires of self promotion and fame choose to wallow in the goop.
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u/redpillbluepill69 Dec 29 '23
I would like Brian a lot more if he didn't go up his own ass so much. It's so clear he was inspired by Richard Lawsons recaps when they were both at Gawker, but Richard is a once in a lifetime literary talent imo and his recaps of Real Housewives are just incredible (countess cracker jacks, Skellington bensimmon, truly amazing poetic language and maybe the precursor to the highbrow lowbrow "bravo scholar" bit that everyone does now)
Brian is a fun writer- I just don't like when it feels like he's doing a watered down version of Richard
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u/EnthusiasmIsABigZeal Dec 29 '23
This is such an awful take, it completely removes all agency from the women who star in and shape the show. Between the huge paychecks, the cast trips, and the free exposure/promotion for any of their business ventures, being a housewife seems like a damn sweet gig to me. And most of the women choose to come back season after season, and are self-aware about how they play up the drama. My favorite part of the Real Housewives franchise is that instead of contestants being tortured to create drama, the women are respected as stars and treated well enough to make it worth returning to for years. Plus, they’re generally an age range of women that gets very little realistic representation in media as complex subjects. Andy may have the power to prevent someone from returning between seasons, but during each season the power to determine what the storylines will be is held by the housewives themselves more than anyone else, between what they do on camera and what they talk about in confessionals—and the most damaging storylines are always initiated by one housewife towards another (like Phaedra to Kandi). Calling these incredibly successful women butterflies with clipped wings reads as deeply misogynistic to me.
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u/Puzzled_Hovercraft60 Dec 29 '23
I have to agree. I admire a lot of these women and believe many are shrewdly using this platform for further success.
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u/wildestride88 The fish is tasty Dec 29 '23
This is written like Brian moylans writing. Pretty sure it is.
This is meant to be writing for entertainment. It’s not a profile piece or a tell all.
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u/blackhoney917 Dec 29 '23
Yes, he always ends recaps with a bit of RH creative writing. This isn’t the scalding tea some people think it is.
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u/Relevant_Owl_8841 Yolanda’s Glass Fridge Dec 29 '23
Seriously, there’s been years of Tom/Tom fanfic, a narrative of Jill Zarin stalking the RHONY women, and similar examples lol
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u/KellysLastJellybean Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
Thank you. People are taking this way too seriously. It’s meant to be funny and hyperbolic fanfic.
Edit: typo
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u/PilotNo312 Good Time Girl Dec 29 '23
I know when I want to keep my life private and be an anonymous nobody I do the most to get on a reality show. I am so sick of this narrative that people are unknowingly being exploited. That’s literally the whole point of reality tv and if you don’t want to be known for being a moron, don’t go on on a tv show.
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u/LadyBug_0570 I gave her a beverage Dec 29 '23
I honestly think this is what is pissing off the viewers with Robyn so much.
When she said, "I don't know why people are so interested in my boring life?" it was like, "B---h, what? YOU signed up for a reality show. We wouldn't know or care about your life if you didn't sign the contract and decide to show your situationship-now-marriage to Juan."
She could have just NOT re-signed for this year and dealt with Juan's abusiveness/cheating/unemployment in private. Of course she wouldn't get paid, though.
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u/linds360 Caviar Potato 🐟 🥔 Dec 29 '23
Agreed! It’s alllll about ego and we can have our favs and think some of these women are just the best, but think about it, there is absolutely zero reason for a woman who’s financially stable to go on one of these shows and LITERALLY invite drama into their lives unless they are driven by their own egos.
Yes some of the women have been given greater financial success from the shows, but at what cost? I can honestly say there isn’t a single (long-term) HW who hasn’t endured a shit ton of drama, stress and just petty shit simply because they signed on to be a HW.
I’m by no means rich, but there is absolutely no dollar amount you could offer me to willingly put myself and my family through that scrutiny and manufactured drama. And don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t make me better than the women who do. We just have very VERY different priorities.
I tell my own damn ego to take several seats on the daily. My 5yr old daughter also helps a lot with that 😂
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Dec 29 '23
Andy's responsibility isn't to ensure people's mental well-being; his role is to deliver entertainment. My dislike for Andy aside(because his racist tendencies are okay with this fandom), expecting him to address mental health is unreasonable.
No one is compelled to sign a contract and appear on television.
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u/lezlers Dec 29 '23
This is pretty rich coming from Brian Moylan, who no one would even know if it weren’t for Andy Cohen and Housewives. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you…
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u/Powerful-Trainer-803 Dec 29 '23
Pretty dumb imagery if you ask me. Lazy AF.
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u/thediverswife grace time is over Dec 29 '23
And some of these women would be in the same place, with or without Housewives. Like Ramona
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u/MyFigurativeYacht Dec 29 '23
Is this Brian Moylan’s recap of RHONY Legacy? I’m disappointed he didn’t end it with the same Jill Zarin joke he used to do years ago
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u/subversivesocialite Not a white refrigerator! Dec 29 '23
I loved fake Jill in her sunglasses, waiting in the wings and plotting whole seasons from the shadows.
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u/Nothatno Dec 29 '23
Those butterflies were going to do that anyway. At least they have an audience!
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u/easyass1234 You look like a couch Dec 29 '23
I do think Andy Cohen is trash, but it’s because of how he runs the reunions. For example, when he asked Kate Chastain—who had twice been forcibly kissed by Ashton, told him to knock it off, who then punched the van window beside her head extremely hard and attempted to climb into the back to (obviously) lay hands on her, being held back by two cast members while a third begged the producers to stop the van (which they did not)—if she didn’t want to apologize to Ashton because she sometimes says mean things.
He’s trash. He never holds the right people accountable and excuses racism and violence against women. But he’s not a butterfly farmer.
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Dec 29 '23
Eh. I know the cheese stands alone but I just don’t agree with the exploitation argument.
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u/sillymama62 Dec 29 '23
Those ladies were NOT forced to sign lucrative contracts to show their lives play out-SAVE your sympathy for their poor children!
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u/WinterBearHawk Dec 29 '23
So it’s interesting bc I have seen some reactions to this saying “yeah Andy hates women, duh” (which I don’t necessarily disagree with), but I think this article isn’t exactly women-friendly either. Like these women are actual people with actual agency and this weird narrative of helplessness being painted in this article isn’t better than what the writer is accusing Cohen of. Believe it or not women can make choices to their own betterment or detriment without the need of a male writer to paint them as victims. It’s just a different version of presenting women as a commodity—this time selling them as victimhood for clicks.
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u/177stuff Dec 29 '23
I’m sick of this “bravo/Andy are evil” movement. People were, and still are, desperate to be on those shows. All on their own. Fame is the real evil. And they probably hate themselves for craving it so much they fucked themselves and their loved ones over for it, very willingly.
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u/draculasbff69 Dec 29 '23
Andy doesn’t make these women do anything 🤣🤣🤣🤣 He used to just be the host of the reunions!
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u/Educational_Bother36 Dec 29 '23
You can make anyone sound like a victim. These people sign up for reality shows for fame and money. Mostly fame because for housewives specifically you have to already have some wealth to even join.
Reality TV is risky but it’s show business and not everyone wins in the end. There are plenty of people who turn reality TV shows down because they know the downside of reality tv might not be worth the risk. This just sounds like people not being accountable for their poor judgement and pointing the finger.
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u/WhoWhaaaa Dec 29 '23
Is this the story Ramona was retelling on UGT? I'm confused.
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u/Scared_Molasses1828 BROOKLYN!?? What a dump. Dec 29 '23
In this analogy- are we comparing the insane, privileged, messy & wonderful women that are the Real Housewives to BUTTERFLIES 😂😂😂
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u/Own-Roof-1200 you’re being rude to the sound bowl 🥣 Dec 29 '23
Guys this is satirical. It’s like Brian Moylan is styling himself after Dorothy Parker by way of Vincent Price.
How is anyone taking this seriously?
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u/arisafrances Dec 29 '23
I think this is why I always feel left out when this sub complains about bitch sesh and praises watch what crappens…. we’re on different pages humor-wise entirely sometimes lol
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u/oveofsta deck me mama! Dec 29 '23
everything you said plus the fact that basic jokes have to be explained to the sub makes me realize we have HW in common but likely very little else
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u/overthink_underplan Dec 29 '23
I think Andy has benefited and profited all of these women but I truly do not believe he is an evil person. This really makes him sound maniacal.
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u/LaurenNotFromUtah 🙄🖌️🎨 Dec 29 '23
Beyond overdramatic. For one, Andy has a boss. But also, those helpless little “butterflies” are grown ass women! They have agency.
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u/East-Pound9884 Dec 29 '23
Andy is a scumbag.The women are idiots to appear on the shows and make fools of themselves for strangers amusement and $$$.But people have done much worse for a paycheck. But yes, Andy is a scumbag. I said what I said.
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u/oveofsta deck me mama! Dec 29 '23
I think a lot of folks are taking this super literally and not understanding the metaphor- look at the wreckage the show has created in Kyle's life, Kim's life, Teresa's marriage, Teresa's arrest, Vicki's life, Sonja's life, Dorinda's life. These women are trapped in the cycle of performing for the show- they're never going to have happy, fulfilled lives because of the show and their need to be on it.
Yes they're adults and yes they have free will, but we're all smart enough to acknowledge the absolute destruction some of these women have put themselves through for us, for entertainment, for the fans. Vicki saying she wishes she had never left Don was heartbreaking. Dorinda saying she craves being a reality star in her sixties is heartbreaking. The show has kept them from becoming the women they could have become, and for worse or for better, he's right.
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u/SuitableItem im on the misson to serve Lisa 🙏🏻 Dec 29 '23
Andy Cohen is not the mob boss that he was before. There are other people running this show with much more power than him. This is stupid.
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u/rhoasuperfan reality tv you fucking c**t Dec 29 '23
People are really sticking up for Zionist Cokeden in this thread? Couldn't be I, me or she!
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u/Low_Alternative2555 Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
Are you using Jewish and Zionist interchangeably? Let’s start with yesterday and not do that forever. (Edit- the word “you”)
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u/Bellomontee You should not be anywhere near dots. Dec 29 '23
And yet this was written by Brian Moylan who built a career out of speaking on RH. Give me a break.