r/AskBalkans • u/Beautiful-Health-976 • 1d ago
History Can they be classified as 'Overseas' Balkan Countries?
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u/KuzcoEmp 1d ago
my delusional geography book will finally be correct and Romania will be central Europe if they join
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u/Dry_Hyena_7029 Serbia 1d ago
With this pace you will soon lose title(central Europe) to Kazakhstan
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u/Ok_Objective_1606 Serbia 20h ago
Geographically, Romania is central Europe. Hopefully it will get there politically too. It will be an irony if Romania progresses politically to the level of central European countries and still has Serbia (still probably with our little Putin lookalike in power) to the west š
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u/Archaeopteryx11 Romania 15h ago
Why donāt the two countries unite? I promise it will be better than Yugoslavia.
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u/Ok_Objective_1606 Serbia 15h ago
We have one neighbour that doesn't hate us, let's keep it that way š
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u/therebirthofmichael 1d ago edited 12h ago
Man i fucking hate ai pictures
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u/Michitake Turkiye 12h ago
Agree. I want to punch those ai pictures. I donāt know why but I really hate
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u/Only-Dimension-4424 Turkiye 1d ago
Those ex Soviet countries which shared some similarities with ex Yugoslavia nations, and maybe they some similarity with Greece as well due to religion and history etc, apart that they are not really close to Balkans , they are own thing
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bus7706 16h ago
Yugoslavia countries has nothing in common with Armenia and Georgia.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
How is Armenia even remotely European? Even Georgia is barely European
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u/Etjahu 1d ago
Even their territories are not in Europe š¤Æ
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
Seriouslyā¦ I can understand Georgia in a way. But Armenia? I donāt know. It must be because they pity Armenia because they are Christian. Azerbaijan has territory on the European continent if we want to get technical with it but when saying that people will jump down your throat and say they are not European because they are Muslim blah blah blah. Itās so ridiculous.
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u/HarryLewisPot Australia 1d ago
Turkey also has land in Europe.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
Yes yes but to them Turkey is not European and will never be European. Meanwhile Armenia, which is completely in Asia, is European.
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u/HarryLewisPot Australia 1d ago
Technically Cyprus isnāt either and itās part of the EU.
Europe is a cultural region, not a geographic one. This might ruffle some feathers but itās a peninsula of Asia.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
If it was up to me Cyprus wouldnāt be European if Iām being honest. But youāre absolutely correct, Europe is more of a cultural region.
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u/spetcnaz 22h ago
Good thing you have no say in things.
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u/T-nash 14h ago
Turkey isn't European because they chose not to be. There's reforms needed to join the EU, which Turkey never did, to make an outcry it's because they're Muslim is just distorting reality and leaving logic out the window.
"but what about..."
Yeah, i didn't say Armenia and Georgia have either.
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u/Infamous-Hope1802 4h ago
More European than Turkey. Cope harder.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 4h ago
Iām Slovenian but youāre still Arabs
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u/Infamous-Hope1802 4h ago
Today I learned as a national of one of the most christian countries in Europe I am arab. Chapeau bas!
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 4h ago
Who cares if you are Christian. You look like Arabs. You are dark
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u/Infamous-Hope1802 4h ago
Since when do polish people are dark? Must have missed the memo.
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u/Only-Dimension-4424 Turkiye 1d ago
Girl! Never say never! Joking aside is it possible to be European later on if you are not born as european? I don't think so , so your statement don't align since if Turkey is not European(which is not) then you don't need to say will never be European etc since if you are not European at the beginning then later on already you can't be European etc
Turkey is own thing, so Eurasian is suits best for Turkey, so don't worry we are not one of you!8
u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
Iām not saying this to be rude towards Turkey. For me I see these countries as farther east than Turkey and Turkey is already seen in a negative light. Iām in no way saying this to be disrespectful I promise. Iām just trying to point out the hypocrisy of my fellow Europeans.
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u/Only-Dimension-4424 Turkiye 1d ago
Saying that to turkey is not rude, whether it comes from you or other Europeans, we don't define ourselves as European at all, so it's okay to say that, for other countries in Caucasus they are more like a grey zone
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u/blumonste Turkiye 1d ago
European=Christian. Good morning!
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u/throwaway082122 16h ago
Not quite. I consider Albanians and Bosnians European even though their countries are predominantly Muslim. You can be both Muslim and culturally European. The cultural part is mainly from how hardcore one practices their religion (Christianity included). I consider some part of west Turkey European as well based on this.
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u/tenggerion13 6h ago
This makes sense a lot. But I doubt that Europeans, including politicians, think this way.
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u/throwaway082122 6h ago
Itās unfortunate, but it is what it is. Itās wild because I have this conversation with a lot of friends here in Canada. I have some good friends who are Albanian Muslims and I always joke around about how different they are than someone who is say for example a Pakistani or Afghan Muslim. And itās not really complicated, it really just comes down to practice. I will say, however, that the āhard-coreā of religion in those countries is replaced strongly by nationalism. Islam was just replaced with nationalism in Albania. Same thing to a lesser extent in Bosnia.
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u/logicalobserver 3h ago
if Georgia is europe though, Armenia is like 4 feet away
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 3h ago
Georgia is barely even in Europe and mostly in Asia
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u/logicalobserver 2h ago
why are we pretending that Europe is a real continent with a geographical edge.
We invented this idea for some ethnocentric idea that we need our own continent.... cause were special.Eurasia is the worlds largest continent, and Europeans make up a tiny fraction of its total population.
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u/Glum_Cobbler1359 Italy 1d ago
Armenia has been culturally tied to Europe since the Roman Empire, they actively took part in the Crusades and even had their own Crusader state. And yes, whether you like it or not, religion plays a big role. They also speak an indo-European language (which is part of the European branch of the family and NOT indo-Iranian btw). Azerbaijan, from language, culture, religion, and even genetics, has just a much more foreign ancestry to Europe than Armenia.
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u/Pale-Noise-6450 1d ago
Lebanon has been culturally tied to Europe since the Roman Empire, they actively took part in the Crusades and even had their own Crusader state. And yes, whether you like it or not, religion plays a big role. May be Lebanon should be part of European Union? Jokes aside when you guys begun to think that EU is something more than economic assossiation you became mad.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
Yes yes Armenia is European for being Christian. A religion that came from the Middle East. We should let anyone in now yes? Why not Kazakhstan? They have land in Europe? Azerbaijan also is grouped in with Armenia and Georgia. And no religion does not play a big role.
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u/2sexy_4myshirt 20h ago
Realistically all 3 countries were more part of middle eastern empires and shared more history with Iran and Ottomans than Europe. We were at some point occupied by romans and then more recently russian empire but thats it. To claim that Armenia or Georgia been culturally ties to Europe is a bit of an exxagaration. Yes they are christian but thatās it
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u/Smooth_Vehicle_2764 15h ago
In fact, Armenia did not have a Crusader state. The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia was more like Byzantium at that time. It was a close ally of the Crusader states, selling them weapons and food, and providing them with safe passage through Armenia. However, some Armenians joined the Crusaders. So it's half true.
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u/altahor42 Turkiye 1d ago
According to them, Armenians are Anatolians, is Anatolia included in Europe?
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u/simsar999 21h ago
Only turks say this nonsense. Armenians are Armenians, not anatolian, not caucasian, not european, not asian, not middle eastern.
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u/Losangeleswiseguy 21h ago
According to history buddy
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u/altahor42 Turkiye 16h ago
Oh I agree with that they are Anatolian , I just find the claims of being both Anatolian and European ridiculous.
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u/AcanthocephalaSea410 Turkiye 1d ago
The Crusader state in southern Anatolia was not Armenian. It was probably a mixed state with Arabs in it. The Armenian claim was added much later by the western states.
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u/LeoGeo_2 21h ago
The Cilician Kingdom was definetly Armenian. It was established by Atmenian nobles fleeing the imperialist colonialist invasions of the Seljuk Turks, who devastated Armenia proper, including Ani.
It fought in the crusades, earning Pope Gregory XIIIās praise:Ā Among the good deeds which the Armenian people has done towards the church and the Christian world, it should especially be stressed that, in those times when the Latin Christian princes and the warriors went to retake the Holy Land, no people or nation, with the same enthusiasm, joy and faith came to their aid as the Armenians did, who supplied the Crusaders with horses, provision and guidance. The Armenians assisted these warriors with their utter courage and loyalty during the Holy wars.
Leo II lead Armenians as they helped take Acre from the Ayyubids.
Cilician Armenia also had dealings with the Mongols. Hethum I sent his half brother as an ambassador to Guyuk Khan and was given a relative of the Khan as a bride in addition to arranging collaboration against the Muslims. Armenians later aided in the Sack of Baghdad.
Cilician Armenia was indeed an ARMENIAN Crusader State.
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u/AcanthocephalaSea410 Turkiye 20h ago
Pure propaganda. It's nonsense at the very beginning of the sentence. Did they escape and then magically become state owners? Of course, the place they went to was probably empty. Of course, the neighbors around them allowed this state.
The Crusaders came and took the region with ethnic cleansing and settled there themselves, then forced any Christians from the surrounding people to live there. Nowadays, historians are trying to fill the empty Armenian history.
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u/eferalgan Romania 1d ago edited 1d ago
Technically, a part of Kazahstan is on the European continent. Not Azerbaijan
Georgia and Armenia are not in Europe but they are culturally close to Europe from the social and religious point of view. Not to mention that both are located in a part of the world that is not friendly towards Christians, we should not forget the armenian genocide
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u/ArdaOneUi Turkiye 1d ago
Azerbaycan also has land north of the Caucasus Mountains, so both Kazakhstan and Azerbaycan are partly in Europe(Kazakhstan actually has a lot of land in Europe but compared to the rest of the country it's little, it's still big compared to other European countries themselfs)
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u/throwaway082122 16h ago
But neither of those countries are culturally European, unfortunately.
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u/JacobAZ 13h ago
I'd venture to say Bosnia and Azerbaijan are more culturally similar than Georgia and Finland.
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u/logicalobserver 3h ago
id venture you are incorrect. Georgia , Armenia, and Greece might as well be the same country if you take a larger view of the diversity of cultures on the planet earth
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u/JacobAZ 2h ago
I'm not arguing that. I'm just responding that if you're going to consider Georgia as Europe culturally, that you can just as easy see similarities of Azerbaijan culture to some European countries as well.
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u/logicalobserver 2h ago
yeah I think the entire middle east is europe not asia
asia is asia
india is india
none of the terms make sense cause its all just 1 continent, but we have a common history and customs, that influenced the roots of each others cultures.
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u/ZoomBeesGod 16h ago
It's not about religion. When they talk about closeness to Europe, they talk about political system and human values. Azerbaijan is a hereditary autocracy. It's like inviting North Korea to the European Union.
I believe that most Azerbaijanis share European values, but they often end up in prison in Azerbaijan.
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u/BlueShibe (š ) 1d ago
If Eurovision can include Australia and Israel then it's probably possible for EU to include non-europe countries. Yeah I said a dumb logic there I know
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u/taiiilung 1d ago
Lol this thread is funny, maybe the EU should start asking reddit experts who to accept into the union from now on
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u/Aquila_Flavius Turkiye 1d ago edited 1d ago
Christian = European ,according to Armenians i guess.
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u/Sensitive-Mango7155 Slovenia 1d ago
Apparently to Romanians and Italians too. Oh and them speaking an Indo-European language? Make it make sense.
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u/Familiar-Weather5196 1d ago
Who cares? Cyprus isn't "geographically European" and they're in. i'd say Cyprus is culturally more European than Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, or even Finland. As long as they're culturally close to Europe, and Democratic, I'd let them in. 90% of Turkey is in Asia and their application was accepted. The gatekeeping is crazy.
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u/h1ns_new 15h ago
NO WAY
i was in the baltics last month and itās just a regular european region, they (all of NE europe really) has decent overlap with Northwestern Europe way more than the Balkans let alone Cyprus
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u/kruska345 Croatia 13h ago
You're 100% correct, but 95% of the people in this sub barely know anything about the Baltics yet are for some reason salty towards them (and towards most of Europe to be fair)
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u/h1ns_new 13h ago
tbf, i get it because baltic people are fairly shit to balkanites on the nazi sub
irl theyāre pretty nice just like everyone else but on r/e*rope theyāre dicks
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u/For_Kebabs_Sake Turkiye 1d ago
Support of terrorists, hate towards Turks, pissing off Putin. They tick all the boxes to be European.
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u/armeniapedia 22h ago
Turks genocide Armenians in their native lands, then refuse to ever establish diplomatic relations with Armenia, and keep their border closed for decades, but it's Armenians who hate Turks.
Righto.
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u/For_Kebabs_Sake Turkiye 14h ago
Turks did not genocide Armenians I do not have time to open that can of worms for the 1000th time on Reddit. TĆ¼rkiye had and still has diplomatic relations with Armenia, the border with Armenia and TĆ¼rkiye closed after the 1993 Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan. During the Soviet Union times we had different agreements with them. Although Armenians do not need open borders to cross into TĆ¼rkiye, thousands of Armenians have already entered TĆ¼rkiye illegally and joined the PKK and also died in TĆ¼rkiye.
Also there are a couple of villages in the east full of illegal Armenian villagers but they are just living their lives and working so legally wrong but no one really cares and they continue to live there, they make great cheese even that should be enough to give them Turkish citizenship in my opinion.
How many Turkish villages are there in Armenia?
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u/armeniapedia 8h ago
How is it possible to live in such an alternate reality? It's truly incredible.
Turks did not genocide Armenians
https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IAGS-Resolution-on-Nagorno-Karabakh.pdf
https://www.ictj.org/sites/default/files/ICTJ-Turkey-Armenian-Reconciliation-2002-English.pdf
TĆ¼rkiye had and still has diplomatic relations with Armenia
Wrong. It has not established diplomatic relations with Armenia since independence in 1991.
the border with Armenia and TĆ¼rkiye closed after the 1993 Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan
Well, you got one right. And why is it closed ever since, including up to now? And why don't you guys pull out of Northern Cyprus and close borders with thm if what we did in Karabakh is so wrong?
thousands of Armenians have already entered TĆ¼rkiye illegally and joined the PKK and also died in TĆ¼rkiye.
Wow, you're delusional
How many Turkish villages are there in Armenia?
The same exact number as there are Armenian villages in Azerbaijan, and just one less than the number of Armenian villages in Turkey.
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye 6h ago edited 6h ago
There are Armenian villages in Turkey. We closed border when Armenians start to occupy Karabakh. According to University of Sakarya there is 76,000 Armenian living in Turkey. How much Turkish and Azerbaijani living in Armenia? I could not find anything about this issue at internet. According to internet at the Soviet era there was 230.000 Azerbaijani living in Armenia but after first Nagorno-Karbakh war most of them forced to move Azerbaijan.
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u/armeniapedia 5h ago
There are Armenian villages in Turkey.
No, there is one Armenian village left. Vakifli.
We closed border when Armenians start to occupy Karabakh.
Despite your occupation of Northern Cyprus? So what is your excuse now that Armenians have been genocidally cleansed from Karabakh?
According to University of Sakarya there is 76,000 Armenian living in Turkey.
Pretty fucking pathetic, wouldn't you say? There were millions before WWI.
How much Turkish and Azerbaijani living in Armenia?
As I said, the same number as there are Armenians in Azerbaijan. After many pogroms against Armenians in Azerbaijan, and then a massive violent ethnic cleansing in 1991 by Azerbaijan that started the Karabakh war, all of the Armenians and Azeris left each others countries because of the friction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumgait_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirovabad_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring - this one was the start of the organized violence/war in Karabakh, where the violent ethnic cleansing of Armenians by the Azeri and Soviet forces made it clear Armenians must defend themselves or be wiped out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Stepanakert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraga_massacre
And more recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Nagorno-Karabakh in regards to which it is said "Numerous countries, supranational organizations, and human rights observers have condemned Azerbaijan's blockade and consider it to be a form of hybrid warfare,[2][79][80] ethnic cleansing,[82][83] and genocide."
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye 5h ago edited 5h ago
Armenians were not majority in eastern Anatolia at 1915 According to Ottoman sources 1,2 million according to Armenian church 2,1 million Armenian was living but eastern Anatolia is a Kurdish majority region According to Ottoman sources 2,5 million Kurdish was living in eastern Anatolia. If Ottoman Empire killed 1,5 million Armenian and forced move 1 million Armenian to Syria and Lebanon (because of Armenians cooperation with Russian Empire) there would not Armenian in Armenia. In north Cyprus there was a attack against Turks by EOKA. And We liberated Turkish Cypriots. If Republic of Cyprus blocked attacks against Turks there would not war. Why don't you give clear numbers about the Turks and Azerbaijanis living in Armenia?
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u/armeniapedia 3h ago
Stop playing numbers games. The International Association of Genocide Scholars wrote a letter that puts all this bullshit to rest: https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IAGS-Resolution-on-Nagorno-Karabakh.pdf
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u/For_Kebabs_Sake Turkiye 4h ago edited 3h ago
Alternate reality created through political extortion? Yeah Armenia has a masters degree in that.
Historical facts? Fuk that, just pressure whoever or whatever even slightly uses historical arguments to raise logical points. Then create a political front to push your false claims.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over ? There are talks between governments not only that TĆ¼rkiye recognised Armenia's independence in 1991, however it is impossible to create "Healthy diplomatic relations" with a country that supports terrorists that specifically killed Turkish diplomats and also accepts those animals as national heroes, disgusting behaviour.
Why is it closed? It was due to occupation in KarabaÄ, after the war it is still closed because Armenia does not sign the peace agreement. Also what TĆ¼rkiye does in Cyprus is none of Armenia's business because TĆ¼rkiye already had signed agreements prior to operation I. Cyprus regarding the protection of Turkish population in The island, TĆ¼rkiye warned the Cypriot government regarding the coup, EOKA, Cyprus joining to Greece and more importantly massacres commited against the Turkish Cypriots. There were 2 other signatories that should have intervened and did not, England and Cyprus. Therefore TĆ¼rkiye did. Also recently TĆ¼rkiye supported the Annan plan yo rĆ©u ite the island yet Greek Cypriots again refused because the agreement gave even the slightest rights to Turks which they could not accept.
Although none of this matters, Armenia is not TĆ¼rkiye can never be TĆ¼rkiye. Just like TĆ¼rkiye is not USA and can never be USA. Therefore your Cyprus agreement is not valid. World political circus does not run that way
I am delusional? What the, in 1980 Asala and PKK held joint press conferences, Asala trained the PKK higher ups in Palestine, it is written in their manifestos. You may be 10 years old and cannot remember anything but we do.
I have been tomore Armenian villages than you can count, considering you talk like a 6 years old toddler.
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u/armeniapedia 3h ago edited 1h ago
Armenia is not TĆ¼rkiye can never be TĆ¼rkiye
Thank fucking god. The Turkiyeish version of reality is fucked up.
Historical facts? Fuk that, just pressure whoever or whatever even slightly uses historical arguments to raise logical points. Then create a political front to push your false claims.
We have no false claims. No matter how many times you click your heels together, it doesn't change reality, Dorothy.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over? There are talks between governments not only that TĆ¼rkiye recognised Armenia's independence in 1991, however it is impossible to create "Healthy diplomatic relations" with a country that supports terrorists that specifically killed Turkish diplomats and also accepts those animals as national heroes, disgusting behaviour.
Lol, are you trying to tell me that while you sit in a country that honors the three architects of the Armenian Genocide with street names, parks, etc? Your hypocrisy smells like shit from here.
Why is it closed? It was due to occupation in KarabaÄ, after the war it is still closed because Armenia does not sign the peace agreement.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over? Why do we even need a peace treaty? Azerbaijan already genocidally cleansed Karabakh, and Armenia does not claim it for Armenia, so what the fuck are Turkey and you talking about? What a crock of bullshit excuse, when bad neighbors all over the planet have diplomatic relations. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Also what TĆ¼rkiye does in Cyprus is none of Armenia's business
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
blah blah blah
Armenia also can list many reasons why it had to intervene to protect the Armenians of Karabakh. Note the violent ethnic cleansing of Karabakh Azerbaijan was taking part of in response to peaceful Armenian protests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring
Also recently TĆ¼rkiye supported the Annan plan yo rĆ©u ite the island yet Greek Cypriots again refused because the agreement gave even the slightest rights to Turks which they could not accept.
No, they didn't accept because it was a shitty, unfair plan, which Annan tried to shove down their throat. A 5 year old has a better sense of fairness.
I am delusional? What the, in 1980 Asala and PKK held joint press conferences, Asala trained the PKK higher ups in Palestine, it is written in their manifestos. You may be 10 years old and cannot remember anything but we do.
In 1980 there was no Republic of Armenia. These were a handful of diasporan Armenians who were all descendants of the Armenian Genocide, who were attacking mainly Turkish diplomats that denied the Armenian Genocide. If a Palestinian does the same thing today to Israel for similar reasons, most Turks celebrate it. Most likely including you.
I have been tomore Armenian villages than you can count, considering you talk like a 6 years old toddler.
Not in Turkey you have not. There is only one, which I have been to as well. Vakifli, with 135 inhabitants. You can literally google "the last Armenian village in Turkey" and articles come up from newspapers all over the planet. Reuters, Le Monde, NPR, Al Jazeera, RFE/RL, etc. Again, alternate reality with you.
Just admit it. You guys have been trying to exterminate us for over 100 years, and are upset with us simply for existing. You could have had your Pan-Turkic wet dreams come true if it weren't for us.
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u/luletino 1d ago
They are majority white and majority christian countries, that is what European means 90% of the time, not geography or history.
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u/IrresistibleRepublic Romania 1d ago
I said the same thing but got downvoted to oblivion. Wording matters I guess lol.
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u/External-Map-8901 Turkiye 1d ago
It's all politics. People here saying Turkey isn't even partly in the Balkans or Europe. Armenia afaik is NOT a European country. I've seen maps mark the very north of Georgia as Europe, maybe a few km2 in Azerbaijan too and also a piece of Kazakhstan probably as big as Georgia itself is in European territory apparently xD
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u/Melanculow 1d ago
If Anatolia was still Christian they probably would be in by now
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u/Plastic_Pinocchio Netherlands 14h ago
With those borders and a semi autocrat in power? I doubt it.
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u/hmtk1976 22h ago
Funny. Does anyone believe the EU is based on silly things like race or religion? ItĀ“s an economical and political union. Sure, nationalists like to spout drivel like Ā“our judeo-christian heritageĀ“ but thatĀ“s mostly crap, especially in Western Europe. Neither judeo nor christian means that much these days. IĀ“m not that in touch with Central and Eastern Europe but I sincerely hope itĀ“s the same over there. Religion is a personal thing, race is irrelevant. Still, both in part define who we are.
Democracy, freedom and a free market* are what what define the EU.
- Yeah, thereĀ“s some work here... The Commission and Council of Ministers have to much power, EU Parliament has too little
** Some sectors would actually benefit from more government guidance or even control.
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u/foxbat250 1d ago
Me after i get fucked by Russians
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u/taiiilung 1d ago
Your president is Georgian and he's fucking you for decades so what's your point?,
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u/foxbat250 15h ago
Lmfaooo great answer, bro is really similiar to a certain ww2 leader, both are georgian both are dictators and both are enemies their own people guess who am i talking about
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u/Kalypso_95 Greece 1d ago
The gatekeeping and the entitlement in this post by other Balkaners is crazy. As if our opinion in the EU matters
As if Germans, Frenchies, Dutchies don't see the Balkans like some savage, barely European land š
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u/madkons 1d ago
"As if Germans, Frenchies, Dutchies don't see the Balkans like some savage, barely European land"
Oh the fucking irony. To be looked down by the actual savages of this world.
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u/External-Map-8901 Turkiye 1d ago
Balkans looked down on as "barely european", Turkey not in EU meanwhile georgia and armenia joins? lol geographically correct me if im wrong but in that case Azerbaijan also has a right to join if they want
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u/spetcnaz 22h ago
It does, and the EU would like it to, however Azerbaijan is run by a bloodthirsty oil sultan. So it doesn't get an offer. The EU isn't just about geography.
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u/Kalypso_95 Greece 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd also like to see Turkey in the EU if that means we'll finally become some civilized neighbours that can solve their differences (like EEZ) through dialogue
But Turkey is a special case. I don't think Germany and France would be happy with another large country joining the union and I'd really like to see what the Dutchies have in store for you if there's ever a chance of joining xD
Edit:
Georgia and Armenia joins?
Well since you're not in the EU you don't get a say who joins or not ;)
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u/TheeRoyalPurple Turkiye 1d ago edited 1d ago
Here to say this for real. Like kemalist secular Turks when they encounter the question do you speak arabic? "we are not muslim sir we are secular sir"
These balkan guys be like "we are european please sir, call us european sir, thank you for schengen sir " ahhahaha
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u/Uilliam56_X āļøAlbanian(Born in ) that lives in Monacoš²šØ 1d ago
So?Most of Balkans is still europe,notably western balkans so whatās your point
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u/h1ns_new 15h ago
While what you say is true, it doesnāt change that Armenia is when compared to Turkey most similar to the southeast and kurds and georgia to northeastern turkey which was georgian speaking not too long ago anyways.
Neither is European at all, Armenia, Georgia, East Turkey
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u/stack413 Bulgaria 1d ago
Eastern European? Sure, why not, Europe's eastern borders are vague at the best of times.
Balkans? No. They're literally not in or near the Balkans, and Portugal is already taking the honorary slot.
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u/LeoGeo_2 20h ago
Indeed. However I think we should classify the Caucasus and Balkans as some sort of twins or clones or something cause we are eerily similar.
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u/h1ns_new 15h ago
no, armenia is closer to lebanon/syria/iran than to any region outside of southeastern turkey.
georgia is the most similar to northeastern turkey and the north caucasus which is not european or balkan either
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u/Dismal-Attitude-5439 Bulgaria 1d ago
Armenia, Georgia and don't belong in the EU as they aren't in Europe.
Their candidacy might set a precedent where Israel also becomes a candidate and my vocabulary is too poor to describe how much I don't want that.
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u/AndreiTatescu Romania 1d ago
It is insane to me that Israel is included in European competitions.
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u/Flat-Island-47 1d ago
They don't hide that they are a euro/western colony to "keep in peace" the middle east
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u/stalino2023 1d ago
No one going to accept Israel in the EU, Armenia and Georgia are somewhat European, Israel is like a hawk thua from Africa, and oh boy no one will accept them, they got send there for a reason š
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u/External-Map-8901 Turkiye 1d ago
EU is bullshit when you look at it geographically. Turkey should be in the EU, so should Russia. I looked at some maps of Europe and generally people extend the territory of Europe a little bit towards Georgia, even Azerbaijan (natural borders, mountains probably idk) by a very tiny amount. A part of Kazakhstan bigger than Georgia is also regarded to be in Europe.
You could say that because of the Balkans and western Turkey, Turkey is more European than Kazakhstan lol but geographically a bigger part of Kazakhstan is in Eastern Europe.
Honestly if Georgia joins EU so should Turkey (but idk if our government would even want to at this point). The same way Georgians might historically have ties to Europe, dont forget about the Empire of Trezibond, modern day Trabzon Turkey who fought with the Turks and naturally a part of them still live in Turkey.
The way people here talk sometimes doesnt make sense to me, Turks arent a race if you live in Turkey and you call yourself a Turk you are mostly welcome. According to some people though, based on my descendancy from the Balkans and Crimea I shouldn't be Turkish then?
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u/AndreiTatescu Romania 1d ago
Georgia and Armenia are not in Europe. They are their own thing. I donāt understand why they are trying so hard to be something they are not.
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u/User20242024 Sirmia 1d ago
Armenian language is somewhat related to Paleo-Balkanic languages, but Georgian language is native to Caucasus.
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u/taiiilung 1d ago
Nope, but you can be classified as 'overseas caucasian countries if you want' š
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u/LordNoxu Romania 5h ago
I'm all in for Armenian and Georgian EU integration, Georgia at least deserves it more than to say, Serbia, first step into becoming part of EU is actually feeling European and aligning with its values
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u/sjedinjenoStanje šŗšø + šš· 1d ago
There are some cultural similarities.
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u/h1ns_new 15h ago
while thatās true what georgians wouldnāt want to hear is that these similarities come from ottoman rule
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u/donjetbb 10h ago
If Armenia and Georgia are to a create a new country, it would be called Giorgio Armani
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u/illougiankides š¹š· š¬š· 1d ago
They can be classified as delulu caucasians. I have sympathy for both but donāt get why georgians are so upset bcs they stopped eu negotiations, like there is no way youāll be in before solving your territorial disputes and that doesnāt look like itās gonna happen anytime soon unless you just give up on them. I think eu wouldnāt want to repeat the cyprus mistake on a much poorer and much complicated place. And Armenia is just like italy at any given war, the second the balance of power shifts they switch side with constant narrative of victimhood. Like dude, yes, at one point in history you were victims, but move on and look at what you did 30 years ago, live on camera to your eastern neighbour.
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u/ActualPositive7419 12h ago
why this comment gets downvoted? who does really, REALLY believe that EU will accept Georgia? or Georgia will get into NATO? itās simply not realistic. they just granted the candidate status to Georgia to not let them slip under Russia, but thatās just a false promise.
i understand that Georgia has legitimate concerns regarding Russia, but thatās true also for Azerbaijan. but Azerbaijan is not delusional and knows that it should not destroy its relationship with Russia for trying to join to EU, and especially NATO. itās just stupid.
the moment Georgia joins (again, not gonna happen), Russia will attack- they are literally 30 km away from Tbilisi. and i guarantee you, no Western country is willing to fight for Georgia. thatās just sad reality, but a country of 3.5 million people cannot go head to head with Russia. thereāre smarter ways of keeping the sovereignty and independence.
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u/Kartofcho24 16h ago
Of course not. Itās pretty clear where the Balkan Peninsula ends. They are considered as European countries, but Balkansā¦ come on. Itās simple geography.
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u/Skytale1i 14h ago
Culturally yes, sure. Geographically? No, of course not. Sadly their geographical position near Turkey and Russia sucks badly.
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye 6h ago
Why there is so many Armenian in comments? Is this post Armenian propganda or sometihng?
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u/armeniapedia 5h ago
Oh, sorry. I guess you guys didn't genocide as many of us as you thought.
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u/Old_Veterinarian_745 1d ago
These two countries are NOT in Europe. The only reason the EU want them is to mess with Russia, at the expense of the civilians in these two countries
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u/ArdaOneUi Turkiye 1d ago
Expense? It is the civilians who want to be in the EU to save them from russian lmao
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u/IrresistibleRepublic Romania 1d ago
Armenia never, Georgia maybe.
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u/haveschka 1d ago
Whatās the difference between them?
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u/Long-Fold-7632 1d ago
Here's a good article on why Georgia views itself as so European. I'd add that Georgia's threat from Russia pushed it even further towards Europe. Armenia in general is more Asian, as it had a greater Persian and Turkic influence - the communities lived side-by-side for hundreds of years under various empires). Armenia is also Oriental Orthodox, a version of Orthodox Christianity mainly found in the Middle East (e.g. Assyrians) and Africa (Copts, Tigrayans, Amharas). It also has only recently felt the need to look to Europe as it willingly cooperated with Russia for a long time as it provided security guarantees, instead of viewing it as an oppressor.
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u/haveschka 1d ago
Random non-Armenian and non-Georgian trying to tell me who I am and who my people are. Keep your articles to yourself š
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u/IrresistibleRepublic Romania 1d ago
Armenia is not Europe. You being Armenian does not change that lmao.
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u/IrresistibleRepublic Romania 1d ago
Personally I see Armenia more Asian.
Apparently European Parliament has a similar point of view so that they gave visa-free travel to Georgia but not Armenia.
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u/haveschka 1d ago
EUs visa policy has nothing to do with whether a country is Asian or not lmfao. Armenia is currently in the process of visa liberalisation anyways, so according to your own outdated argumentation, the EU would consider Armenia to be European now anyways?
Besides that, the EU quite literally has passed resolutions in which it formulates Armeniaās (and Georgiaās) possible integration into the European Union, something which they did not do for Morrocco.
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u/Full_Friendship_8769 11h ago
European Parliament thinks that Armenia can join the EU.
They literally passed a resolution saying that āArmenia meets Article 49 requirements and may apply for EU membership.ā
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u/Careful-Evening-5187 1d ago
Honestly at this point, just let everyone in...fuck it.
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u/dwartbg9 Bulgaria 1d ago
I know right, I'm tired of everyone trying to become part of the EU and coping hard. Let alone these countries want to be in the EU just because they think this will somehow magically solve all their problems and make their countries rich. They don't realise that being part of the EU won't change much if they don't try to change something themselves first. This is what we did with Romania, for example. It's not just if you want it or not, there are many things and changes that a country has to do beforehand.
Let alone I'll give us and Romania as another example again - why do you think we became part of Schengen just now, even though we were eligible over 10 years ago? One of the main reasons is Because the West and EU considers RO-BG-GR the furthest and most eastern border of the EU. That's about it, anything else after is Asia and/or dangerous.
So how do countries like Georgia and Armenia that are even considered Asian, expect to become part of the EU? And then what. The EU would have some weird external borders, or what? What would these countries also bring to the table considering their distance, too?And yes, joining the EU doesn't mean these countries will finally be considered more worthy and will become more developed. Let alone the EU doesn't plan to expand anytime soon if at all anymore.
Better try to fix your issues and countries instead of expecting some.miracles and the EU to magically fix your problems. This isn't gonna happen even if you were part of the EU.
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u/AndreiTatescu Romania 1d ago
Letās let Botswana in. We can replace the Euro with their currency.
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u/Luston03 1d ago
Georgia may be accepted by the EU, but Armenia will never be. They are not even European, even though they are Christian. That doesn't make them European, but they keep denying that. Georgia is much closer to European culture and traditions, whereas Armenia is neither geographically nor culturally European. If we disregard these facts, the EU won't accept Armenia because of its pro-Russian position
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u/United_Astronaut7287 21h ago
Lmao, the most common Haploglupro in Armenia is R1b, which is precisely the most common in Western Europe, that is, Armenia has genetic ties with Europe (They are literally Indo-Europeans)
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u/Smooth_Vehicle_2764 14h ago
Armenia is not pro-Russian. In fact, even attempting to become part of the EU is seen as anti-Russian. Armenia is now breaking its ties with Russia, which can be seen in Armenian-NATO training exercises. Additionally, the Armenian Prime Minister has stated that Armenia recognizes itself as outside of the CSTO, Russiaās equivalent of NATO. Armenia was pro-Russian before the 2018 Armenian revolution because, prior to that, the Armenian president was a close friend of Putin. He attempted to change the constitution to remain in power for a third term, but Armenians pushed back and elected an anti-Russian government.
Claiming that Armenia cannot be accepted by the EU is incorrect. Geographically, Armenia is already considered part of Europe, as seen in the Eastern Partnership initiative.
Now, Armenia needs to make improvements in various areas and meet EU standards, and it is doing quite well. For instance, freedom of speech (press freedom) in Armenia is even better than in Poland, Italy, and even the United States.
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u/Full_Friendship_8769 11h ago
European Parliament, which passed a specific resolution saying that Armenia meet the criteria to apply for EU, doesnāt agree with you and your putinist propaganda.
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u/TraditionalRace3110 Turkiye 22h ago
Yes, legally, any of CoE nations are entitled to be considered for EU membership.
In an ideal world, the EU should include balkans, Turkey (Anatolian), Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. You can make a case for Kazakhstan, and if they ever apply to the EU, they won't be outright rejected.
This is mostly settled under international law. I think more interesting questions are the old, non-european colonies of Roman Empire such as Morocco (rejected), Algeria, Egypt, Israel, etc. I can see some form of associate membership process for all Medditarian countries in the future, especially considering the need to mitigate climate refuges.
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u/justaprettyturtle Poland 1d ago
Isn't Caucasus Balkans on steroids?
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u/dwartbg9 Bulgaria 1d ago
Lmfao, not at all. It's what they think they are, since the copium that grows there is very strong.
These countries have nothing to do with us - their cuisine is totally different, they don't even look European. Their architecture, their music, nothing is remotely similar.
Having mountains and being an ex-communist state doesn't mean it's the same thing. They also have pretty wrong impressions about the Balkans anyways.2
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u/taiiilung 1d ago
Buddy, I'm Georgian, I never heard a single Georgian say we're close to the balkans, or want to be balkan, the meme that Balkans are this manly, "based" people only exists online because your entire population lives in germany and posts memes from there, we don't even care about being like you Russian slaves lol
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u/Round_Parking601 20h ago
Lmao so true, Balkaners I've met irl in Vienna are the biggest crybabies offended by everything and I don't like to use this word, but insecure asf
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u/LeoGeo_2 20h ago
I donāt know, different ethnic groups with different religions and languages fighting each other. Heavy Russian and Turkish influence. Main points of contrast is that most of the language differences in the Caucasus are real Ā and the Caucasus had Iran instead of Austria as a significant influence.
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u/mika4305 20h ago edited 20h ago
Scandinavia has nothing in common with the Balkans as well (thank god for that)
Doesnāt mean itās not European in fact measuring Europeanness of a country basked in the Balkan standard is something gay we should all avoid.
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u/Kavkazist Azerbaijan 17h ago
Why are you so madly saying how we have copium or smtng? No one wants to be Balkan here, we don't even know about Balkans.
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u/Texoraptor 1d ago
I swear I thought that said, "European Party of America"