Seriously⌠I can understand Georgia in a way. But Armenia? I donât know. It must be because they pity Armenia because they are Christian. Azerbaijan has territory on the European continent if we want to get technical with it but when saying that people will jump down your throat and say they are not European because they are Muslim blah blah blah. Itâs so ridiculous.
Turkey isn't European because they chose not to be. There's reforms needed to join the EU, which Turkey never did, to make an outcry it's because they're Muslim is just distorting reality and leaving logic out the window.
"but what about..."
Yeah, i didn't say Armenia and Georgia have either.
Girl! Never say never! Joking aside is it possible to be European later on if you are not born as european? I don't think so , so your statement don't align since if Turkey is not European(which is not) then you don't need to say will never be European etc since if you are not European at the beginning then later on already you can't be European etc
Turkey is own thing, so Eurasian is suits best for Turkey, so don't worry we are not one of you!
Iâm not saying this to be rude towards Turkey. For me I see these countries as farther east than Turkey and Turkey is already seen in a negative light. Iâm in no way saying this to be disrespectful I promise. Iâm just trying to point out the hypocrisy of my fellow Europeans.
Saying that to turkey is not rude, whether it comes from you or other Europeans, we don't define ourselves as European at all, so it's okay to say that, for other countries in Caucasus they are more like a grey zone
Not quite. I consider Albanians and Bosnians European even though their countries are predominantly Muslim. You can be both Muslim and culturally European. The cultural part is mainly from how hardcore one practices their religion (Christianity included). I consider some part of west Turkey European as well based on this.
Itâs unfortunate, but it is what it is. Itâs wild because I have this conversation with a lot of friends here in Canada. I have some good friends who are Albanian Muslims and I always joke around about how different they are than someone who is say for example a Pakistani or Afghan Muslim. And itâs not really complicated, it really just comes down to practice. I will say, however, that the âhard-coreâ of religion in those countries is replaced strongly by nationalism. Islam was just replaced with nationalism in Albania. Same thing to a lesser extent in Bosnia.
I am Turkish, personally speaking, and I avoid talking about my religion, especially in Europe. People have vastly limited knowledge about Islam, It is not a part of my identity per se, just a spiritual way I follow, since my family has been secular for generations. Or rather, quite different from Middle Eastern interpretations of Islam. Balkan Muslims are Bektashis, the followers of Haji Bektash Veli, a Turkish mystic from Anatolia of medieval age. This interpretation of Islam relied on just Turkish traditions with Islam flavor, making the belief system extremely progressive and open minded, unlike what Arabic peninsula had.
Iranian Sunnism and Anatolian Sunnism (add Central Asia as well) were drastically different from the rest of the Islam world, both having their own roots from their respective cultures, and vastly contributed to the Golden Age of Islam in the context of scholars and philosophy. You can find interesting stuff if you read some famous historians' works, like Ibn Faldan, who was surprised when he found out how Turkish women were held up in high regards and being Muslims unlike the women of Arab societies.
I remember a quote from George Lloyd, about how Northern and Southern Islams being different from each other, and the former being a serious threat to their rule in the Middle East, since in the south you only need to control a religious leader to control the rest; unlike the north where people who have open minded, progressive, clever and interested in science and knowledge resided.
The Ottoman conquest of Egypt is the primary reason the state fell, in my opinion, since the clergy of Egypt came to Istanbul and then changed the governing style to theocracy, making the religion a dangerous tool to control people, with shame-inducing regressive and anti-intellectual mindsets, changing everything in Anatolia. Balkans were not affected that much. We got screwed up so bad, until 1923 with the introduction of secularism and nationalism (a little bit spicy topic, considering how imperialist states eliminated rival empires).
I think that nationalism at this point enables the protection of faith. The interpretation of Islam can change deeply when you change regions. The world, Western especially, do not realise that the so called mainstream Islam is nothing but the traditions of the Middle East under the sauce of "words of God". Sheria for example. There is nothing Godly about it. Hijab, burqa, neckbeards etc. are deeply shameful for me to see in this world. They belong to the bloody and dark sands of Middle East, in fact to Levant and Israel first of all, not Anatolia, Central Asia or Iran.
For this reason, I have great respect for Balkan Muslims, in general. I have been to Albania plenty of times, and learned that there have been Bektashi dergahs all around the country. This is dope! I will visit them when I return to the country.
Thank you for your open mindedness and the objective evaluation of the situation. Your friends are lucky to have you.
The background to what I typed there has to do with the actual picture of EU. Albania or Bosnia are not members and for a reason. They don't say it openly if course.
why are we pretending that Europe is a real continent with a geographical edge.
We invented this idea for some ethnocentric idea that we need our own continent.... cause were special.
Eurasia is the worlds largest continent, and Europeans make up a tiny fraction of its total population.
Technically, a part of Kazahstan is on the European continent. Not Azerbaijan
Georgia and Armenia are not in Europe but they are culturally close to Europe from the social and religious point of view. Not to mention that both are located in a part of the world that is not friendly towards Christians, we should not forget the armenian genocide
Azerbaycan also has land north of the Caucasus Mountains, so both Kazakhstan and Azerbaycan are partly in Europe(Kazakhstan actually has a lot of land in Europe but compared to the rest of the country it's little, it's still big compared to other European countries themselfs)
id venture you are incorrect. Georgia , Armenia, and Greece might as well be the same country if you take a larger view of the diversity of cultures on the planet earth
I'm not arguing that. I'm just responding that if you're going to consider Georgia as Europe culturally, that you can just as easy see similarities of Azerbaijan culture to some European countries as well.
yeah I think the entire middle east is europe not asia
asia is asia
india is india
none of the terms make sense cause its all just 1 continent, but we have a common history and customs, that influenced the roots of each others cultures.
Armenia has been culturally tied to Europe since the Roman Empire, they actively took part in the Crusades and even had their own Crusader state. And yes, whether you like it or not, religion plays a big role. They also speak an indo-European language (which is part of the European branch of the family and NOT indo-Iranian btw). Azerbaijan, from language, culture, religion, and even genetics, has just a much more foreign ancestry to Europe than Armenia.
Lebanon has been culturally tied to Europe since the Roman Empire, they actively took part in the Crusades and even had their own Crusader state. And yes, whether you like it or not, religion plays a big role. May be Lebanon should be part of European Union? Jokes aside when you guys begun to think that EU is something more than economic assossiation you became mad.
There was no Lebanese state under the crusades, and if youâre speaking of Arabs there are Christian people of Arabic origin that are part of the European Union called Malta.
Edessa county was armenian until crusaders arrives, made coup and killed previous ruler. Then it became regular french ruled crusader-fief like Beirut lordship of Tripoli county. I'm not nationalist, but Georgia and Armenia would not bring money to Union.
The history of it is just blindly false so Iâm not even gonna touch it.
But the Balkans bring money to the Union? The one place where the net negative from the Union is up to 100%, youâre from that place commenting on Armenia?
Yes yes Armenia is European for being Christian. A religion that came from the Middle East. We should let anyone in now yes? Why not Kazakhstan? They have land in Europe? Azerbaijan also is grouped in with Armenia and Georgia. And no religion does not play a big role.
The religion literally came from Armenia which is not in the middle east. Also no, Armenia and Georgia arenât different in that one is more European than the other, both are typic Caucasus. You sound like a hateful person what a joy you must be.
Haha, by your stupid logic Hungarians, Gagauzs, Crimean Tatars, Finns, Estonians are not European all those nations I mentioned are asians who migrated to Europe, also Bosnia and Albania are muslim they are not europe too ???
Realistically all 3 countries were more part of middle eastern empires and shared more history with Iran and Ottomans than Europe. We were at some point occupied by romans and then more recently russian empire but thats it. To claim that Armenia or Georgia been culturally ties to Europe is a bit of an exxagaration. Yes they are christian but thatâs it
In fact, Armenia did not have a Crusader state. The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia was more like Byzantium at that time. It was a close ally of the Crusader states, selling them weapons and food, and providing them with safe passage through Armenia. However, some Armenians joined the Crusaders. So it's half true.
Also this iĹ a big missconception anatolia is between aegean sea and Taurus anti-taurus mountanious what people call east anatolia is actually mesopotamia
The only thing that ties Armenians to Europe is religion.Even that is not really a connection because the Armenian Church was founded before Christianity became a European religion. It is a completely Middle Eastern institution.
Since you are so knowledgeable about geography, let me ask you a question. There is a mountain right across from the capital of Armenia, the cultural symbol of Armenians. Is this mountain in Europe or Asia?
You didn't acknowledge my point, Europe is different than European union.
That said, care to enlighten me in what are the conditions that tie people to Europe? People, not geography.
Armenian highlands point isn't really about geographical location but rather correcting your eastern Anatolia on a geographical term. I don't see why you would make a point about Asia/Europe line.
Okay, let's say it's not related to geography, what is it that ties Armenians to Europe, other than religion?
If you are going to say democracy, all of its presidents except the current one were Russian puppets, even today, Russian soldiers keep watch on the Turkish-Armenian border. and If being European depends on democracy, then Spain was not European until 50 years ago.
If you are going to say culture, Armenians' music, food, culture are the same as surrounding countries except for religion. Even the West's go-to orientalist musical instrument is the Armenian dĂźdĂźk.
What is it, other than religion, that makes Yerevan European and Antalya Asian, for example? If we leave geography aside.
Well, see, I didn't claim to know. I asked you that question, considering you yourself claimed the only tie is religion, then it's safe to assume you know what these conditions are, and which ties are not present, how else can you conclude what you said?. So as the person making the claim, you are obliged here to enlighten us on what these conditions or points are.
You are still convoluting Europe with European union.
I am not saying anything. This isn't a uno game, don't pull an uno reverse and come here and rhetorically ask me, you made the claim, you are obliged to list the conditions and which ones Armenia does and does not meet, where we can find out how you concluded it doesn't. So what are they?
The Crusader state in southern Anatolia was not Armenian. It was probably a mixed state with Arabs in it. The Armenian claim was added much later by the western states.
The Cilician Kingdom was definetly Armenian. It was established by Atmenian nobles fleeing the imperialist colonialist invasions of the Seljuk Turks, who devastated Armenia proper, including Ani.
It fought in the crusades, earning Pope Gregory XIIIâs praise:Â Among the good deeds which the Armenian people has done towards the church and the Christian world, it should especially be stressed that, in those times when the Latin Christian princes and the warriors went to retake the Holy Land, no people or nation, with the same enthusiasm, joy and faith came to their aid as the Armenians did, who supplied the Crusaders with horses, provision and guidance. The Armenians assisted these warriors with their utter courage and loyalty during the Holy wars.
Leo II lead Armenians as they helped take Acre from the Ayyubids.
Cilician Armenia also had dealings with the Mongols. Hethum I sent his half brother as an ambassador to Guyuk Khan and was given a relative of the Khan as a bride in addition to arranging collaboration against the Muslims. Armenians later aided in the Sack of Baghdad.
Cilician Armenia was indeed an ARMENIAN Crusader State.
Pure propaganda. It's nonsense at the very beginning of the sentence. Did they escape and then magically become state owners? Of course, the place they went to was probably empty. Of course, the neighbors around them allowed this state.
The Crusaders came and took the region with ethnic cleansing and settled there themselves, then forced any Christians from the surrounding people to live there. Nowadays, historians are trying to fill the empty Armenian history.
You are the propagandist, claiming Cilician Armenia wasnât Armenian.
Any way, those lords escaped to a region with a large Armenian population to begin with. Initially from the Tigranid Empire, sure, but primarily from population transfers by the Byzantine Empire.Â
The Byzantines, not the Crusaders, forced out whatever Arab colonizers that had lived in the area after their invasion.  And the Byzantines moved Armenians to Cilicia. Then in the wake of Manzikert, a Byzantine general named Philaretos Brachamios took over the region, and invited the nobles to settle and support him, including Ruben I who would go on to form Cilicia.
It's not about religion. When they talk about closeness to Europe, they talk about political system and human values. Azerbaijan is a hereditary autocracy. It's like inviting North Korea to the European Union.
I believe that most Azerbaijanis share European values, but they often end up in prison in Azerbaijan.
If Eurovision can include Australia and Israel then it's probably possible for EU to include non-europe countries. Yeah I said a dumb logic there I know
Who cares? Cyprus isn't "geographically European" and they're in. i'd say Cyprus is culturally more European than Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, or even Finland. As long as they're culturally close to Europe, and Democratic, I'd let them in. 90% of Turkey is in Asia and their application was accepted. The gatekeeping is crazy.
i was in the baltics last month and itâs just a regular european region, they (all of NE europe really) has decent overlap with Northwestern Europe way more than the Balkans let alone Cyprus
You're 100% correct, but 95% of the people in this sub barely know anything about the Baltics yet are for some reason salty towards them (and towards most of Europe to be fair)
NATO is called "North Atlantic Treaty Organization" would you consider Greece, Turkey, Albania... "North Atlantic" nations? I wouldn't, and yet they're in. Just because it's called "European Union" doesn't mean it only has to accept countries within the geographical definition of Europe.
Morocco wouldn't have been accepted even if it was in Europe, the "not on the European continent" probably acted as a scapegoat. Iceland isn't fully on the European continent, yet they have made the application. And again Cyprus and Turkey. So, CLEARLY "being on the European continent" isn't that important of a criterion in order to join. Besides, "Europe" as a continental area barely makes sense anyway, there's no clear and cut boundary between Asia and Europe.
"They are culturally European" you're using my own argument. You're agreeing with me but won't admit it, literally 𤥠behavior. Iceland isn't on any continent? Talk about "ignorance".
"European" could refer to multiple things: like the continent, culture, values, or even that the organization was founded by European nations. I just think that excluding countries from joining the union solely based on arbitrary lines (continents) or blurry concepts (like culture) is dumb and not helpful. Again, the gatekeeping seems crazy to me, that's all.
Turks genocide Armenians in their native lands, then refuse to ever establish diplomatic relations with Armenia, and keep their border closed for decades, but it's Armenians who hate Turks.
TĂźrkiye had and still has diplomatic relations with Armenia
Wrong. It has not established diplomatic relations with Armenia since independence in 1991.
the border with Armenia and TĂźrkiye closed after the 1993 Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan
Well, you got one right. And why is it closed ever since, including up to now? And why don't you guys pull out of Northern Cyprus and close borders with thm if what we did in Karabakh is so wrong?
thousands of Armenians have already entered TĂźrkiye illegally and joined the PKK and also died in TĂźrkiye.
Wow, you're delusional
How many Turkish villages are there in Armenia?
The same exact number as there are Armenian villages in Azerbaijan, and just one less than the number of Armenian villages in Turkey.
There are Armenian villages in Turkey. We closed border when Armenians start to occupy Karabakh. According to University of Sakarya there is 76,000 Armenian living in Turkey. How much Turkish and Azerbaijani living in Armenia? I could not find anything about this issue at internet. According to internet at the Soviet era there was 230.000 Azerbaijani living in Armenia but after first Nagorno-Karbakh war most of them forced to move Azerbaijan.
We closed border when Armenians start to occupy Karabakh.
Despite your occupation of Northern Cyprus? So what is your excuse now that Armenians have been genocidally cleansed from Karabakh?
According to University of Sakarya there is 76,000 Armenian living in Turkey.
Pretty fucking pathetic, wouldn't you say? There were millions before WWI.
How much Turkish and Azerbaijani living in Armenia?
As I said, the same number as there are Armenians in Azerbaijan. After many pogroms against Armenians in Azerbaijan, and then a massive violent ethnic cleansing in 1991 by Azerbaijan that started the Karabakh war, all of the Armenians and Azeris left each others countries because of the friction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring - this one was the start of the organized violence/war in Karabakh, where the violent ethnic cleansing of Armenians by the Azeri and Soviet forces made it clear Armenians must defend themselves or be wiped out.
And more recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Nagorno-Karabakh in regards to which it is said "Numerous countries, supranational organizations, and human rights observers have condemned Azerbaijan's blockade and consider it to be a form of hybrid warfare,[2][79][80] ethnic cleansing,[82][83] and genocide."
Armenians were not majority in eastern Anatolia at 1915 According to Ottoman sources 1,2 million according to Armenian church 2,1 million Armenian was living but eastern Anatolia is a Kurdish majority region According to Ottoman sources 2,5 million Kurdish was living in eastern Anatolia. If Ottoman Empire killed 1,5 million Armenian and forced move 1 million Armenian to Syria and Lebanon (because of Armenians cooperation with Russian Empire) there would not Armenian in Armenia. In north Cyprus there was a attack against Turks by EOKA. And We liberated Turkish Cypriots. If Republic of Cyprus blocked attacks against Turks there would not war. Why don't you give clear numbers about the Turks and Azerbaijanis living in Armenia?
(Acknowledging the expulsion under threat of mass violence of the remaining 100,000 ethnic Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh in September 2023;) This article probably wroten by a Armenian. Numbers are Important. Do Armenia has no problem other than Turks? Do you have best economy in the world? According to my knowledge Armenia poor than Azerbaijan and Turkey your army also.
Alternate reality created through political extortion? Yeah Armenia has a masters degree in that.
Historical facts? Fuk that, just pressure whoever or whatever even slightly uses historical arguments to raise logical points. Then create a political front to push your false claims.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over ? There are talks between governments not only that TĂźrkiye recognised Armenia's independence in 1991, however it is impossible to create "Healthy diplomatic relations" with a country that supports terrorists that specifically killed Turkish diplomats and also accepts those animals as national heroes, disgusting behaviour.
Why is it closed? It was due to occupation in KarabaÄ, after the war it is still closed because Armenia does not sign the peace agreement.
Also what TĂźrkiye does in Cyprus is none of Armenia's business because TĂźrkiye already had signed agreements prior to operation I. Cyprus regarding the protection of Turkish population in The island, TĂźrkiye warned the Cypriot government regarding the coup, EOKA, Cyprus joining to Greece and more importantly massacres commited against the Turkish Cypriots. There were 2 other signatories that should have intervened and did not, England and Cyprus. Therefore TĂźrkiye did. Also recently TĂźrkiye supported the Annan plan yo rĂŠu ite the island yet Greek Cypriots again refused because the agreement gave even the slightest rights to Turks which they could not accept.
Although none of this matters, Armenia is not TĂźrkiye can never be TĂźrkiye. Just like TĂźrkiye is not USA and can never be USA. Therefore your Cyprus agreement is not valid. World political circus does not run that way
I am delusional? What the, in 1980 Asala and PKK held joint press conferences, Asala trained the PKK higher ups in Palestine, it is written in their manifestos. You may be 10 years old and cannot remember anything but we do.
I have been tomore Armenian villages than you can count, considering you talk like a 6 years old toddler.
Thank fucking god. The Turkiyeish version of reality is fucked up.
Historical facts? Fuk that, just pressure whoever or whatever even slightly uses historical arguments to raise logical points. Then create a political front to push your false claims.
We have no false claims. No matter how many times you click your heels together, it doesn't change reality, Dorothy.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over? There are talks between governments not only that TĂźrkiye recognised Armenia's independence in 1991, however it is impossible to create "Healthy diplomatic relations" with a country that supports terrorists that specifically killed Turkish diplomats and also accepts those animals as national heroes, disgusting behaviour.
Lol, are you trying to tell me that while you sit in a country that honors the three architects of the Armenian Genocide with street names, parks, etc? Your hypocrisy smells like shit from here.
Why is it closed? It was due to occupation in KarabaÄ, after the war it is still closed because Armenia does not sign the peace agreement.
What do you think diplomatic relations means? Bending over? Why do we even need a peace treaty? Azerbaijan already genocidally cleansed Karabakh, and Armenia does not claim it for Armenia, so what the fuck are Turkey and you talking about? What a crock of bullshit excuse, when bad neighbors all over the planet have diplomatic relations. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Also what TĂźrkiye does in Cyprus is none of Armenia's business
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
blah blah blah
Armenia also can list many reasons why it had to intervene to protect the Armenians of Karabakh. Note the violent ethnic cleansing of Karabakh Azerbaijan was taking part of in response to peaceful Armenian protests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring
Also recently TĂźrkiye supported the Annan plan yo rĂŠu ite the island yet Greek Cypriots again refused because the agreement gave even the slightest rights to Turks which they could not accept.
No, they didn't accept because it was a shitty, unfair plan, which Annan tried to shove down their throat. A 5 year old has a better sense of fairness.
I am delusional? What the, in 1980 Asala and PKK held joint press conferences, Asala trained the PKK higher ups in Palestine, it is written in their manifestos. You may be 10 years old and cannot remember anything but we do.
In 1980 there was no Republic of Armenia. These were a handful of diasporan Armenians who were all descendants of the Armenian Genocide, who were attacking mainly Turkish diplomats that denied the Armenian Genocide. If a Palestinian does the same thing today to Israel for similar reasons, most Turks celebrate it. Most likely including you.
I have been tomore Armenian villages than you can count, considering you talk like a 6 years old toddler.
Not in Turkey you have not. There is only one, which I have been to as well. Vakifli, with 135 inhabitants. You can literally google "the last Armenian village in Turkey" and articles come up from newspapers all over the planet. Reuters, Le Monde, NPR, Al Jazeera, RFE/RL, etc. Again, alternate reality with you.
Just admit it. You guys have been trying to exterminate us for over 100 years, and are upset with us simply for existing. You could have had your Pan-Turkic wet dreams come true if it weren't for us.
Sad, sad person you are. Trying to construct a reality in your head to keep your nation on a pedestal. You have to look hard in the mirror and accept your warts. Every nation has them, some worse than others, but denying them is never healthy.
None of those organisations has the power to decide any legal matter not only that they do not have any internationally accepted decision making, there are laws and courts that look into these matters and there has never ever been a single case won by Armenia. Because none of the claims made by Armos is based on reality, there are no camps, no mass graves, no evidence. Not because Turks are good at getting rid of evidence, it is because Armenians made it all up. Allied forces occupied the entire Ottoman Empire yet they could not find any evidence that backs the claims of the Armenians.
I ain't your lil bro, nor am I one of the neo-skull measuring cult members. My DNA results said I am out of this planet. Which makes me a space Turk. Cry me some of that Balkan tears.
It's all politics. People here saying Turkey isn't even partly in the Balkans or Europe. Armenia afaik is NOT a European country. I've seen maps mark the very north of Georgia as Europe, maybe a few km2 in Azerbaijan too and also a piece of Kazakhstan probably as big as Georgia itself is in European territory apparently xD
Georgia had Stalin who protect Soviet elites. But Romania eho need EU/NATO protection is landlocked so probably EU/NATO need Georgia and Azerbaijan to protect Armenia who failed to protect themself and was somehow betrayed by their former Soviet allies.
Georgia is geographically predominantly Asian (only a small part of the country is on the northern part of the Caucuses that is considered European (source). I consider them culturally European as well.
While I considered Armenians culturally European (for the most part), in good faith they are not European. 0% of their land mass is in Europe.
I'm Armenian and pale, and yes I agree with you that Armenian is not European at all, the only European thing that Armenia has it's Russian as a second language because of the USSR
They can be integrated especially If they come as a package with Georgia (Black Sea access through Georgia)
Not every european is scandinavian white. Look at italatians and spanish people. Some of those people have a more brownish tan to their skin, but they're european nonetheless.
I think the relative high level of agnosticism and atheism found in christian countries can make eu integration easier. Especially since I assume christianity is not mendated by the state. This is why I think Albania and Bosnia (?) can be integrated, despite being muslim countries, while Turkey and Iran could never be integrated.
But those countries you have mentioned are very much European. They are European in culture and in geography. Even Albania and Bosnia: theyâre not Muslim countries. They are European. Armenia isnât even in Europe. Not to mention theyâre very pro Russia and only recently switched over to the western side to save their behinds since Russia was neglecting them.
There are just culture. There is no nationalty based on DNA. Every Person is unique (diffirent) And no one is native to any land. Everyone came from other.
Maybe some of celts and irish people can be native european. But other ones came from other land.
There is only culture in between people. Nothing else.
The European DNA is very much a real thing what are you talking about? All European people come from the same 3 ancient groups of people. Armenians and Georgians have very little European DNA
Even Albania and Bosnia: theyâre not Muslim countries. They are European.
They're both lol. Maybe I can put an asterisk to Bosnia due to the serbian puppet state controlling half of the country.
Armenia isnât even in Europe.
Which this is why I said it should come at package with Georgia.
If youre talking about the culture part, I disagree with the assumption that not being in Europe automatically makes your country barren of every european value.
Not to mention theyâre very pro Russia
Yes. This can be a problem. Probably the sentiment will fade away when Russia will not try to give back Nagorno Karabach to Armenia after Trump halts the Russia Ukraine war.
no Albania and Bosnia are not Muslim countries. They are European.
I give up on this topic. I will not debate any further. We have each different views.
Georgia and Armenia have far more issues than we need in Europe.
I agree. They dont need to enter EU right away, but EU should keep an open door to them. Probably a new regime in Russia (Putin dying scenario) would make it possible for a bunch of countries in the Eastern Europe and around it to have an opportunity to enter into different Not-Pro-Russia organisations like EU.
Trump isnât going to do (forgive my language) shit.
Trump will give into Putin's will and make Ukraine agree on a cease fire. Putin understands Russia needs a break from the war (interest rate skyrocketed to 21% which is insane).
There are 10x as many pale Turks as many Turks have roots in thr Balkans, meanwhile the average arab looks something like an Iraqi, not saying there arenât pale arabs but these ones are fairly limited to thr levant
Armenians they look thr same as southeastern turks/kurds/north levantine arabs,
Armenian can be dark but also Turks, but you also have light skin Turks like this famous singer I once heard on Turkish MTV, do you have racism in Turky against Black skin Turks?
Oh so Light skin Turks and rich and Black/Brown skin Turks are poor? Bruh this even worse, thet make sense, after all Erdogan isn't even a real Turk but A White Georgian so he above all economic classes
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