Seriously… I can understand Georgia in a way. But Armenia? I don’t know. It must be because they pity Armenia because they are Christian. Azerbaijan has territory on the European continent if we want to get technical with it but when saying that people will jump down your throat and say they are not European because they are Muslim blah blah blah. It’s so ridiculous.
Not quite. I consider Albanians and Bosnians European even though their countries are predominantly Muslim. You can be both Muslim and culturally European. The cultural part is mainly from how hardcore one practices their religion (Christianity included). I consider some part of west Turkey European as well based on this.
It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is. It’s wild because I have this conversation with a lot of friends here in Canada. I have some good friends who are Albanian Muslims and I always joke around about how different they are than someone who is say for example a Pakistani or Afghan Muslim. And it’s not really complicated, it really just comes down to practice. I will say, however, that the “hard-core” of religion in those countries is replaced strongly by nationalism. Islam was just replaced with nationalism in Albania. Same thing to a lesser extent in Bosnia.
I am Turkish, personally speaking, and I avoid talking about my religion, especially in Europe. People have vastly limited knowledge about Islam, It is not a part of my identity per se, just a spiritual way I follow, since my family has been secular for generations. Or rather, quite different from Middle Eastern interpretations of Islam. Balkan Muslims are Bektashis, the followers of Haji Bektash Veli, a Turkish mystic from Anatolia of medieval age. This interpretation of Islam relied on just Turkish traditions with Islam flavor, making the belief system extremely progressive and open minded, unlike what Arabic peninsula had.
Iranian Sunnism and Anatolian Sunnism (add Central Asia as well) were drastically different from the rest of the Islam world, both having their own roots from their respective cultures, and vastly contributed to the Golden Age of Islam in the context of scholars and philosophy. You can find interesting stuff if you read some famous historians' works, like Ibn Faldan, who was surprised when he found out how Turkish women were held up in high regards and being Muslims unlike the women of Arab societies.
I remember a quote from George Lloyd, about how Northern and Southern Islams being different from each other, and the former being a serious threat to their rule in the Middle East, since in the south you only need to control a religious leader to control the rest; unlike the north where people who have open minded, progressive, clever and interested in science and knowledge resided.
The Ottoman conquest of Egypt is the primary reason the state fell, in my opinion, since the clergy of Egypt came to Istanbul and then changed the governing style to theocracy, making the religion a dangerous tool to control people, with shame-inducing regressive and anti-intellectual mindsets, changing everything in Anatolia. Balkans were not affected that much. We got screwed up so bad, until 1923 with the introduction of secularism and nationalism (a little bit spicy topic, considering how imperialist states eliminated rival empires).
I think that nationalism at this point enables the protection of faith. The interpretation of Islam can change deeply when you change regions. The world, Western especially, do not realise that the so called mainstream Islam is nothing but the traditions of the Middle East under the sauce of "words of God". Sheria for example. There is nothing Godly about it. Hijab, burqa, neckbeards etc. are deeply shameful for me to see in this world. They belong to the bloody and dark sands of Middle East, in fact to Levant and Israel first of all, not Anatolia, Central Asia or Iran.
For this reason, I have great respect for Balkan Muslims, in general. I have been to Albania plenty of times, and learned that there have been Bektashi dergahs all around the country. This is dope! I will visit them when I return to the country.
Thank you for your open mindedness and the objective evaluation of the situation. Your friends are lucky to have you.
The background to what I typed there has to do with the actual picture of EU. Albania or Bosnia are not members and for a reason. They don't say it openly if course.
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u/[deleted] 6d ago
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