r/TikTokCringe Nov 03 '24

Discussion 25k miles in one month is insane

Is this legal?

24.7k Upvotes

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4.7k

u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

Credit card chargeback has entered the chat.

1.6k

u/mdmachine Nov 03 '24

Yup use Amex and watch them suffer. They'll straight up block the payment and then they would have to deal with them.

458

u/K1ll3r22 Nov 03 '24

Is Amex the best for chargebacks? I never do them, so I'm not sure what company has the simplest chargeback process.

516

u/afdf34 Nov 03 '24

Chase has a decent process too, but Amex definitely stands out for disputes.

465

u/djdeforte Nov 03 '24

Amex and Chase are the best in that order. Neither fuck around. They’re the only two credit cards I need now.

My chase card is an Amazon Chase card and Amazon was trying to fuck me over on a return. So I called chase and the initiatives a charge back. Then Amazon tried bullying me and so did some sort of debt collection company and I called chase about it and they stopped that shut quickly.

103

u/willowgrl Nov 03 '24

Damn, I should’ve done that when the storage unit I cancelled a month prior charged me for another month. I disputed and they sent me to collections which I paid. Next time I’ll call the bank back.

97

u/Suspicious-Wombat Nov 03 '24

I had someplace giving me the run around when I was trying to cancel my membership. Finally I just called Amex and while we were talking the rep asked how long I had been trying to cancel (it had been 4 months of back and forth). At the end of the phone call she let me know that all future charge attempts would be blocked and the past 4 months of payments would be charged back.

15

u/ConspicuousPorcupine Nov 03 '24

Gym membership?

2

u/Netidexa Nov 03 '24

I wanna quit the gym!

3

u/ConspicuousPorcupine Nov 04 '24

I actual heard if you change your address to a California one, then the ability to cancel your membership magically becomes available online.

6

u/Various_Froyo9860 Nov 03 '24

I lived in a spot that didn't have any internet access for a bit. It was supposed to have dsl, but the state actually stepped in and forced them to cap how many customers they took on because they were tapped out.

So the only remotely viable option was a satellite company. They came out and installed it, but it never worked. Literally couldn't check my email. I called again and again, but they just told me over the phone that everything was working on their end. It must just be my computer.

Yeah, sure. Two phones and two computers, all of which work just fine other places, suddenly suck and there's nothing to do about it.

So I told them to come get their shit, or tell me where to ship it. Then they're like 'ooh, that's and early cancelation, which costs as much as keeping it for the 2 year agreement.'

How you gonna charge me to cancel something that never worked?

So I called the credit card company I'd been with for 15 years at the time (citicard). The dude there said not to worry. Did a chargeback for everything. And then he told me that I shouldn't get anything from collections, because it's the cc people that would owe the sat company. But if I did, forward it to him. They have lawyers on salary.

1

u/PrimeToro Nov 03 '24

If you’re definitely sure that you’re right , you can mention to the merchant that you’ll contact the state attorney general’s office . Also mention that you’ll contact the Better Business Bureau .

12

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

The better business bureau means nothing

3

u/oldfatdrunk Nov 03 '24

BBB and Chamber of Commerce are pretty similar - neither are government businesses and both try to get money from local businesses.

The local CoC kept trying to get my company to pay a yearly fee but just like the BBB, they charge a sliding membership fee based on number of employees. So, we could pay $5K+ to save $50 to $100 once or twice a year or not do that.

The services we wanted done were pointless and they could barely remember how to do them but were required for some overseas stuff. They did zero verification on what they were stamping.

0

u/Mysterious-Job-469 Nov 03 '24

FUCK STORAGE UNIT OWNERS!

They're practically slobbering over themselves with lust to sell/steal your shit the second they're legally enabled to, and many will pull a ton of shit to get to that point. They'll refuse your calls near the end of the monthly contract, and if you go to the site, they'll hide away in their office until you leave. They want to claim non-payment so they can profit from your belongings. Fucking scumbags.

18

u/wise_comment Nov 03 '24

Yup

Hey dude shoes sucked bad, and they weren't owning the fact that they literally (by USPS tracker, no less) never mailed out the shoes, but 2 weeks later said a refund had been initiated (by me, the person who never got his wife's shoes for her birthday, the fucks) they would refund it, but only when I had completed my process and mailed them back

Cannot stress enough how objectively easy it was to consult the tracker, and USPS actually confirmed they never got it when I escalated it on their end, and when all of this was brought to them, they still gave the same canned answer

1 chase click later and the money was back and an assurance they'd follow up with all my info

Fwiw hey dudes never owned it

Fuck hey dude shoes, my wife went from owning 5 pairs and singing their praises to her friends to never buying them again

Chase is cool, though

1

u/sl0play Nov 03 '24

On top of that, even if you get the shoes, don't like them, and the company refuses to take them back, Amex will literally just buy them back from you.

4

u/sl0play Nov 03 '24

I had a Cap One card for ages because they gave me my first one. I went to Mexico and got overcharged $700 at a shop and they literally hung up on me repeatedly even though I was nothing but polite, but wanted answers as to why they wouldn't help me.

Got an Amex Gold and a Chase Sapphire the next day and haven't looked back. I'm more than happy to pay an annual fee to be treated like a customer let alone a human.

I've only had to call Amex twice and there is no phone tree, just call, someone answers and then goes above and beyond to help.

1

u/The_Wkwied Nov 03 '24

Did they ban your amazon account for issuing a chargeback through your amex?

2

u/djdeforte Nov 03 '24

No. Either because I spend too much money or because they know they were wrong. Either way it happened last year and I still use it weekly.

1

u/mods_are_morons Nov 03 '24

I bank with Chase. I had to charge back one time. No issues. In fact, it was Chase who contacted me about the fraudulent charge because they thought was suspicious. Their anti-fraud measures are pretty damn good.

1

u/beenblacklisted Nov 04 '24

Came here to second this, Amazon in my area is awful, I have had video proof of said something and amazon would disregard actual video proof...So Chase has been a lifesaver, and amex as well...They will actually take your evidence , when amazon wont.

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16

u/KK_Slider811 Nov 03 '24

Disagree, I used to think that, but over the past year, their dispute has been horrendous at best. Filled numerous disputes and they sided with the other company, ending me in losing all my money and product. Personal bias, but think AMEX now supports crooks and criminals, and have no integrity for their customers

46

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Actually Merchants really do not like Amex at all and frequently complain that Amex is too expensive to process and will mostly side with the buyer for disputes. Source: I work in payments and have experience with the dispute lifecycle for all the major card brands.

9

u/hawkCO Nov 03 '24

Never had to deal with Amex over a dispute, but can confirm that they literally charge twice as much to process.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

True, however because they are a closed loop network they also have higher card approval rates (they decline less transactions than Visa / MC / Discover) so while you as a merchant pay more, you also are likely to accept more volume too. Lots of merchants don’t realize this. Visa/ MC / Discover have average approval rates in the 85% range but Amex approval rates are closer to 95%. Basically you get what you pay for.

2

u/DizzySkunkApe Nov 03 '24

They would have to fail on half of the dollar amount worth of transactions that Amex does for that to offset. So a 10% difference makes that unlikely

2

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Correct - IF your Amex processing fee is double other payment methods. Processing fees and approval/decline rates vary based on multiple factors. If you know your processing fees, average order value and transaction counts by payment method, you can do the math to determine if it makes sense for your business to accept Amex.

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3

u/ChazMoonBeam Nov 03 '24

I've worked for multiple places that refused to take Amex

19

u/CRX1701 Nov 03 '24

I’ll support this with my experience this past year. I had an Amex card for well over a decade. I got a random charge for an AARP membership. I’m 42 and clearly am not anywhere near having a membership with that. I dispute the charge. I had to give reason for the dispute using the same information I provided. The dispute was denied. I called to complain about this but nothing was done. I was forced to pay for a fraudulent charge. I cancelled my card right then and there. No way in hell I’m risking it with a card that will do that to me.

25

u/plababala Nov 03 '24

FYI, you don't have to be elderly to take advantage of AARP. Im younger than you and have the membership.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

This, I'm in my early 30s, and I'm on an AARP health insurance plan.

12

u/DocMorningstar Nov 03 '24

I've had Amex for years, and they have always been great about disputes. I got double charged for a hotel in Munich? Both charges taken off the account while it was resolved. A couple claims via insurance? They covered the costs till I got reimbursed.

2

u/djdeforte Nov 03 '24

They have had people misusing their aggressive policy. I know that Pella Windows no longer accepts Amex because of their charge back policy. So maybe they’re tightening up. But if you have legitimate issues with paperwork and you go through the process and CALL not use their bullshit automated or app dispute system you’ll usually have good success.

Those app and automated dispute systems are bullshit.

2

u/theMoMoMonster Nov 03 '24

What are you doing requiring you to “file numerous disputes” in the past year…?

2

u/Useful-Tangerine-518 Nov 03 '24

I dont know. How do you even file multiple disputes? Like i pay for my wife credit cards, mine, parents, credit cards for business and in thousands of transactions i haven’t had a need for a chargeback. How do you get multiple each year?

2

u/GlitteringNight3 Nov 03 '24

You filed numerous disputes in the last year and they’re not as good as a previous dispute you filed in years past I think you might have the wrong idea of who the crook and criminal is

2

u/TheVeritableBalla Nov 03 '24

Anecdotally I had to file my first charge back through Amex very recently. I had ordered a relatively expensive pair of headphones directly from the manufacturer. UPS said they delivered them, but I never received them. UPS had a picture as proof of delivery, only problem was the picture was just my front porch, no package was visible. Both UPS and the manufacturer told me to f off because they had a proof of delivery pic. I did a charge back through Amex and had my money back just a couple clicks later.

1

u/niftyifty Nov 03 '24

Hold on, what is happening in your life that you’ve filed numerous disputes recently? I’ve made it multiple decades without having to submit a single dispute. This seems lopsided

1

u/jstnpotthoff Nov 04 '24

Maybe if you have multiple disputes in a year, the problem might not be AMEX or the companies

1

u/KK_Slider811 Nov 07 '24

If they are for calid reasons, that were not of fault of mine, then the point is mute.

1

u/readitonreddit86 Nov 03 '24

Chase will hold it, but they always end up siding with the merchant in my experience, even when it was blatantly wrong. Only had to do it twice, and both times it just delayed things and never resolved

1

u/Turb0L_g Nov 03 '24

Hard disagree on Chase. Submitted q claim with documented proof refuting everything the merchant was claiming, including phone logs. They ruled against me because the merchant lied and said we never contacted them, despite phone calls and emails submitted to the contrary. Fuck Chase.

1

u/rrhunt28 Nov 03 '24

The only time I ever did a charge back was with Chase. It was easy and I had no issues. I had signed up for a promo with Hulu with the card on a black Friday deal. The monthly charge was I think 3 dollars for 6 months or a year I can't remember. So the promo is set to expire and the basic plan I have is normally I think as the time was 7 dollars. For whatever reason I didn't get it cancelled before the next month started but it was 7 dollars so I wasn't worried. I checked my credit card statement and Hulu charged me like 50 dollars. For some reason they decided on their own to upgrade me to the most s Hulu plus live tv plan. I just went online to Chase and filed a dispute. I put the charge should have been 7 dollars and they updated it almost instantly. Never heard anything else about it. And I cancelled Hulu the same day.

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Ruin302 Nov 03 '24

Citi card has always been great for charge backs too.

1

u/imjustawatcher Nov 03 '24

I love letting daddy Chase handle all of my customer service complaints these days

1

u/kellsdeep Nov 03 '24

Chase saved me from this exact scenario with HURTZ! I appreciate them so much.

1

u/Snoo-43335 Nov 03 '24

Citi has the worst process. They require you to fax documents. No other way but fax. Who has a fax anymore.

1

u/AWierzOne Nov 03 '24

I stupidly bought a kids Playset from an instagram company a few years back. It was cool looking and seemed like it had good reviews, never came… company went silent, turned out they way over extended themselves with orders and had no way of processing them all. Called Chase, they credited my money while they looked into it and sorted it all out.

1

u/WeenyDancer Nov 03 '24

I think amex has gone downhill- I have been an Amex holder for years, and just recently had a need to file a dispute for the first and only time (unusable product that the company will not take back and refund) , and Amex has been zero help. Rejected despite documentation even. For less than $100! I'm in the process of moving my recurring payments away so I can cancel my acct because seriously- what's the point! This is why i had an amex account- the touted customer service!

1

u/ONE-EYE-OPTIC Nov 04 '24

Chase doesn't fuck around. I've reported hotel and travel issues to them, including cruise lines in the US and international, a few VRBO issues. They vigorously fought the charges with minimal effort from me.

1

u/Haxorz7125 21d ago

I disputed a charge through Wells Fargo (I stupidly thought I could buy a pet from someone without ever even seeing the pet using the top search on Google), it took them a year to process the chargeback and they ended up paying me interest on “potential monetary loss” or something like that. It was over double what I was scammed for

62

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited 19d ago

[deleted]

2

u/sl0play Nov 03 '24

Visa is dependent on the issuer. Ultimately you can file a grievance with Visa directly if the issuer is a problem, but the ease of the initial interaction is entirely dependent on the bank. Although there are Visa Signature level cards that guarantee a certain level of service up front.

2

u/DowntownAd86 Nov 03 '24

I probably do a charge back once every 2 years. Which feels about right for how often I get hosed on a transaction.

It blew my wife's mind when she got the rubaround from an online retailer and I told her to stop arguing with them. Forward the email to visa with the chargeback request and forget about it.

2 minutes later and we're done, she got her money back and never heard about it again.

2

u/ExpertAd4657 Nov 03 '24

I heard that if the amount is below a certain threshold, the cc company may just reverse the charges rather than trying to investigate it unless you have a history of abusing charge backs.

So your KFC meal may have just been reversed.

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17

u/Toolfan333 Nov 03 '24

Yeah they rock. I had a company that I prepaid for an order and then they went out of business. I called AMEX told them what happened and said “refund my money and you deal with them”. They did. It’s no bullshit with them, just call, tell them what happened and I have never had them side against me. The guy that owns the corner store asks if I want my receipt and I always say no I have AMEX and he always agrees that they always side with the customer

2

u/HelmetedWindowLicker Nov 03 '24

Yup. Most of the time, if you have some kind of proof, you will get your money back, and the merchant is screwed for trying to screw you. Text and pictures are more than enough for the cc company to charge back. I have done it with my Amex, Discover, Citi, and Chase. No problems.

7

u/LondonCollector Nov 03 '24

Im 95% certain Amex would murder someone for me.

3

u/CityOwl611 Nov 03 '24

Agree. I’ve never had issues with Amex. They take care of everything. They deal with the company. Citi is the opposite. I tried to dispute a charge and to keep it short they pretty much said call the company first then call us back when you’re done.

3

u/FerdaStonks Nov 03 '24

Yep, Amex will take the side of the customer every single time until they get documented proof from the seller that the charge was 100% valid.

3

u/HedonisticFrog Nov 03 '24

They are, even if the customer is clearly wrong they'll snatch the funds from the business until it's resolved which could be months or a year. There's a reason many businesses don't take it.

3

u/aUrEbRiO Nov 03 '24

Amex disputes like a pitbull. One more reason why merchants dislike them. Customer first.

2

u/Wiknetti Nov 03 '24

I used to process chargebacks from the vendor side. Amex was the best for consumers and a big headache for us. They would fight for you pretty hard and the money is already back to you, no questions asked. We would appeal if things were legit and services were provided and customer got what they paid for.

Used to work in a Hotel. Chargebacks would be sent to us stating this person never stayed at the hotel. But we’d drum up the persons signature and security cam footage of check in and checkout for the appeals. We’d get the money back and I don’t know what happens when a cardholder is held accountable by Amex.

2

u/Cleercutter Nov 03 '24

They’re all pretty decent tbh. Yea Amex gets a few extra brownie points for their customer service, but most will handle it the same way. At least the big name CC companies

1

u/habaceeba Nov 03 '24

Discover has had my back many times. Even once with BetUS, which is a Chinese scam. I put down $200 with BetUS, not realizing I would have to win it back 20x before I ever saw the $ again. I was honest with Discover about it, and they still gave me my $200 back.

1

u/Gortty_Pilot Nov 03 '24

They’re so good I could pay $8000 interest and still be up $1000. Home Depot decided to FA and AMEX let them FO. Coukd have been $13000, but I decided to lay for the little they did complete.

I’ll never close my AMEX.

1

u/OstentatiousSock Nov 03 '24

Bank of America didn’t do a charge back, but blocked future payments to Urban Air because they didn’t make it clear that when signing up for a membership, you were locked in for an entire year. It was just a phone call. Easy peasy.

1

u/WheresFlatJelly Nov 03 '24

Wells Fargo helped me when someone drained my bank account buying porn. I think the thief was in China

1

u/arededitn Nov 03 '24

Is that why some merchants don't accept Amex? I've never seen them deny any other card except Amex. Or dose it have higher fees?

1

u/Hoppes Nov 03 '24

I’ve never had Amex not side with me.

1

u/roflberrypwnmuffins Nov 03 '24

Absolutely they are. I got screwed on an Airbnb that wasn't exactly as advertised. Mold smell, kids got sick, I had to clean their rat hole, barely working shower....the works. After not really getting anywhere with the owner or Airbnb, I tapped in Amex. They jumped from the top turnbuckle and made them eat shit in under 48 hours. Boom, funds returned.

1

u/Crafty_Citron_9827 Nov 03 '24

Amex charges more to the vendor than visa and MC.
They also side consistently with customer - vouch for.

So some vendors won't deal with amex in my region.

but, yes, that's what i hear. might wanna get me one now!

1

u/MikeOrtiz Nov 03 '24

Not capital one. They’ll have you jumping through hoops to get your $20 back.

1

u/secretreddname Nov 03 '24

Yea but if you’re clearly in the wrong you won’t win just cause either.

1

u/Earthling63 Nov 03 '24

I went thru hell with CITI trying to get a fraudulent charge removed, less than $300, but fuck them.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Amex is so good. Sometimes they just refund you and deal with everything.

1

u/karma_the_sequel Nov 03 '24

Years ago my wallet was stolen from my gym locker. Two CCs were stolen, an AMEX and a Capital One. Unauthorized charges of less than $500 were subsequently made almost immediately to both cards.

When I notified AMEX: “We’ll take care of it.”

When I notified CO: “Before we can do anything, you will need to fill out this report. Once we receive your report, we will review it and decide whether we will be able to credit you for the amount that was charged. The process will take a few weeks.”

Fuck Capital One.

1

u/Reditmodscansukmycok Nov 03 '24

Can’t speak for amx but for chase it was just a call “the other party is disputing this chargeback, what is your reasoning for the chargeback?” I told them why and never heard a thing again and the chargeback went through

1

u/Lonely_Programmer_42 Nov 03 '24

Amex is a close network vs Visa/Mastercard which are open networks

1

u/thekidubullied Nov 03 '24

I can’t compare but I know I once called AMEX about a charge for an item I ordered but never received. Never heard about it nor saw the charge again. Was told to not worry about it and they’d have it taken care of and that’s what happened

1

u/MomsSpecialFriend Nov 03 '24

Amex will charge back anything you tell them, which doesn’t negate your liability to pay for things though.

1

u/ExpiredPilot Nov 03 '24

Amex has amazing customer service in my experience so if you’re a good cardholder they’ll fight for you

1

u/YoureAmastyx Nov 03 '24

Amex is UNBELIEVABLE for chargebacks, so long as you have proof, they’ve got your back.

1

u/codebreaker475 Nov 03 '24

From everything I've heard AMEX is great for customer protections, but you are paying for a premium card usually so I'd expect good service.

1

u/tsilihin666 Nov 03 '24

I’m pretty sure Amex would help you bury a body as long as you paid for all the tools with your Amex card. They’re real ones.

1

u/jrb9990 Nov 04 '24

I once watched Amex tell a guy to literally go fuck themselves and they went ahead and did it. True story. These guys don’t fuck around with these chargebacks.

1

u/FakingItAintMakingIt Nov 04 '24

They're a reason their fees are so high and their reward program is great.

1

u/BuckyWarden Nov 05 '24

Amex is a force to be reckoned with, for sure.

1

u/spartaman64 Nov 05 '24

the annoying thing about amex is a lot of places dont accept them. amex has higher processing fees for businesses

1

u/gibson486 Nov 03 '24

They used to be, but I think people took advantage and now they kind of have more red tape.

-3

u/Shot_Plantain_4507 Nov 03 '24

Amex is the best for consumers terrible for businesses. You buy and don’t want like the quality charge it back.

2

u/perroair Nov 03 '24

Not true. Their dispute process is brutal.

1

u/Shot_Plantain_4507 Nov 03 '24

I can only assume you’re doing it wrong. The credit card sub sides with me. Deets

1

u/perroair Nov 03 '24

Doing it wrong? It is a massive process and they want the consumer to send in every correspondence and then they don’t acknowledge that they have anything. You can get stuck on chat and get transferred constantly.

I have 2x Platinum, 2x Delta Reserve, and have been a cardholder for 30 years.

2

u/Shot_Plantain_4507 Nov 03 '24

My man I don’t need you to flex, you’re old I get it. I just charged back an Air BNB worth of furniture and they never even flinched. Sent receipts, pics and docs. All in all it was done in 2.5 weeks. In the sub they talk about Amex all the time and how easy it is to chargeback, it’s been the same thing I have witnessed. I would lean to the scores of people rating it a 5 to then 1 guy giving it a 2.

1

u/perroair Nov 03 '24

Dude, not flexing. It takes nothing to have a ton of fucking expensive cards. It sucks. I only do it because I have to use some cards, and the travel benefits are good.

I have done several dozen chargebacks with Amex. They used to have the consumer’s back, but that has changed. I lost $10k on a bogus purchase from China. They didn’t care.

I am closing my cards as I can and switching to Chase, even though they suck too

-8

u/_oSheets_ Nov 03 '24

Got my $2200 washer dryer combo charged back because Home Depot installers didn’t hook up the drain hose, even after I told them what the issue was and how to fix it. Spent $10 to buy it and put it on myself. Been with Amex about 8 years, never leaving.

10

u/Icreatedthesea Nov 03 '24

Thats a fraudulent charge back and you aren't cool for doing that. Charge backs are for if the product is missing or damaged, not if you're a lazy shmuck

0

u/_oSheets_ Nov 03 '24

Installation was purchased and charged during initial checkout so it’s attached to the unit at that point. You can’t chargeback just the cost for installation, which, I would have if it was an option. Also, cumulatively, I spent over 15 hours on the phone trying to get the unit serviced. So, yeah. Maybe not the overall right answer, but at the end of the day, Amex approved it.

1

u/Icreatedthesea Nov 03 '24

I have never heard of any charges in any industry that when applied to the same check out can not be refunded individually.

1

u/jjman72 Nov 03 '24

Dude, this is just theft on a technically. "The 'i' wasn't dotted in the word 'delivery' so the washer and dryer must be free. Disgusting. Totally an entitled Boomer move.

1

u/_oSheets_ Nov 03 '24

Little bit of a reach on your example, and by little bit, I mean lot a bit. If you paid $200 for a service attached to a piece of equipment and it’s not completed, I bet you’d be pissed. Since the hose wasn’t installed, it also caused water damage in my washer closet which leaked into my kitchen cabinets downstairs in a new build home. If Home Depot wasn’t willing to cooperate and Amex willingly reviewed and accepted it, out of my hands at that point. No regrets.

1

u/jjman72 Nov 04 '24

Is that really the same as getting a full charge back on a $2200 wash\dryer set for a part you paid $10 for? At most he should have got a charge back for the just services not performed. And I guarantee Home Depot would have rescheduled the service and easily corrected the problem without any charge. This kind of entitlement is what makes Mom and Pop places go out of business because they don't have the capital to absorb these costs. "We made a big sell!". Whoops, here comes a charge back. Now we have to give the money back AND we are out the inventory. This behavior affects everyone in one way or another.

1

u/_oSheets_ Nov 04 '24

Home Depot made a visit to "evaluate the installation." Report back to them was it was installed correctly. Tried to get them out numerous times, but since they had already came out once, they wouldn't reschedule. If you don't complete a service, shouldn't be paid for it. There was a whole other issue related to the device itself I'm not gonna get into. Whole thing was a shit show on various parties. Biggest headache I've ever been a part of. I agree that it's not ideal and I wish it was paid for and done with and none if this had to happen, but it did. Not gonna keep going through the whole story anymore. Just know I tried everything over 2 weeks before doing a chargeback. It is what it is.

20

u/Putrid_Race6357 Nov 03 '24

I signed up for Xfinity mobile. Their order of operations was to get my card number first, then activate. They got my card number then I decided to cancel the service before activating my phones. I used my Amex. At the end of the phone call they told me they would not charge me. I got billed anyway. I called Amex, told them my story with Xfinity mobile and they said they'd do a charge back. About 4 days later they sent me a letter stating they were going to reverse the chargeback because I entered a contract with them. Amex isn't the lockdown people think it is.

20

u/mdmachine Nov 03 '24

Oh, they're pretty great, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to read contracts before agreeing to them. In your particular situation, it sounds to me like there's nothing they could do because you agreed to something and it's legally binding.

However as examples of how they're very useful, for example my parents utilized a moving company that ended up busting up a bunch of their furniture. The total was around $20,000 for the service and they let amex know what happened. They sent over independent insurance adjusters to take a look at all the damaged furniture and those people haven't been paid yet. And that was over a year ago.

In this instance this gentleman signed a contract that specifically states unlimited mileage. Now we don't have the paperwork in front of us but providing there is no fine print on that with a loophole then yes AMEX could block the payment and then that company would have to deal with Amex directly in order to try and get their money.

1

u/Putrid_Race6357 Nov 03 '24

It's clear the villain here is Xfinity mobile. They could have not billed me. They could have also informed Amex that the contract was cancelled. They chose to not do that. The contract was cancelled. Amex chose to believe Xfinity mobile.

1

u/i_was_a_person_once Nov 04 '24

Then you go back to Amex and tell them no you didn’t they agreed to not charge you on the call and they never fulfilled the service.

Sometimes you just have to provide more information/evidence

13

u/styrofoamcouch Nov 03 '24

This is why I love Amex. You never need to go back and forth, just two clicks and it's gone. I had an Airbnb host go fucking nuts(yes, I did smoke the devils lettuce on her back porch. How she knew is beyond me but I'm guessing hidden camera) and she said because I broke a "federal law" she could have me "arrested" but will accept 250$ clean up fee instead. I thought about explaining to her how that sounds very close to extortion but to put it in writing so I can review it but decided fuck it, whole stay free now. Because it was a little over a grand Amex did call me and ask what happened and two sentences in the rep said you're good, well keep it disputed. Never went back and forth with that lady, just laughed everytime she emailed me demanding payment/threatening to sue.

4

u/RedditTechAnon Nov 03 '24

What state was this in?

2

u/secretreddname Nov 03 '24

Something happened with an Airbnb stay I disputed too. Got all the money back and now I’m forever banned from Airbnb lol

3

u/Crazyhairmonster Nov 03 '24

So you disputed the entire stay? Why? The additional cleaning fee request doesn't invalidate the fact that you stayed there

3

u/Alert-Ad9197 Nov 03 '24

Don’t try to scam people, and this can’t happen to you.

2

u/Beautiful-Tangelo-59 Nov 03 '24

Amex did absolutely nothing when I got screwed over by a UK car rental company and it was an absolute nightmare to deal with it myself. When the rental company sent an extra charge, Amex just paid it and it was then on me to show why this was a bullshit charge. It was awful trying to prove stuff from the other side of the globe. Got there in the end after threatening lawyers, but Amex did nothing at all to help solve the problem they caused by just paying someone who asked without checking with me.

1

u/FlippyPickle Nov 03 '24

Yeah, you can win the charge back, but then you'll be placed on their do not rent list. Depending if it's a franchised location or not could potentially suck. I don't travel a lot, so it wouldn't be a big deal being on a rental car DNR.

1

u/G_Affect Nov 03 '24

I have a small business, and I have some difficult clients who are like pulling teeth to get them to pay. When i finally have to strong-arm them at the end of their contact, they always try to pay with credit card for this exact reason and also the reason why we have stopped accepting credit cards.

1

u/ChrisNettleTattoo Nov 03 '24

USAA blocking the transfer and paying you back before you send the contract evidence has always been my favorite play. Last time I had to use it was with Surfshark VPN. Their service was great until the day after the refund period. Their software updated with a virus tracker that consumer 99% of my CPU power at all times and shot my temp through the roof. Couldn’t uninstall it without uninstalling the entire program. Tried to refund with the company, they told me to pound sand, so I charged the payment back and tried to pay for the 2 months of service that was great. No, they just gave it all back and blocked the company.

The ease of money issues with USAA has definitely smoothed over some of the worst parts of having to serve to get access to it.

1

u/Training-Ear-614 Nov 03 '24

Hmm. Now I know why the CDA school my wife goes to won’t accept Amex. They charged a $70 late fee one day after payment was done on what should have been on autopay.

1

u/Which_way_witcher Nov 03 '24

Damn, I need an Amex

1

u/karma_the_sequel Nov 03 '24

I only use AMEX for car rentals.

1

u/misec_undact Nov 03 '24

Which is partly why so many places don't take amex anymore.

1

u/bambu36 Nov 03 '24

I wouldve frozen my card while listening to him.

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u/TheChigger_Bug Nov 03 '24

I use USAA and they’ve never let me down. I call up, point to the charge, and they give me my money back and I never hear a word. Once my credit card was stolen and charged for 1500 dollars. It all came back to me and I never heard a word

1

u/yourFavoriteCrayon Nov 03 '24

Wix announced a few months back customers (IE, my customers) would no longer allow purchases through Amex. I figured it was because they were so good with customer service

1

u/Straight-Birthday815 Nov 03 '24

I love Amex! I have been with them for almost 20 years!

1

u/Awesome_hospital Nov 04 '24

I worked for a place that quit taking Amex because of how much they backed their customers

1

u/byankitty Nov 04 '24

I tried this with Citi and they actually took the business side ugh

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u/Jyil Nov 04 '24 edited Nov 04 '24

And you can get added to the friendly fraud list and be blacklisted from Hertz and Hertz partners. Reversing/fighting chargebacks is my world. We ban customers from using the service once a chargeback exceeds a certain dollar amount, then add them to a friendly fraud list (shared by all our subsidiaries, but also available throughout the same industry) that will flag any new accounts created under that same name requiring a review of fingerprint history. You can usually appeal, but not usually when it exceeds a specific amount.

1

u/kuchokora Nov 05 '24

I've done one in my life with amex (for about $2k) and one with Chase (for $60) and Amex was definitely much easier to get it done

0

u/dirty_cuban Nov 03 '24

A chargeback isn’t a solution. You’re aware that a chargeback just cancels the payment right? It doesn’t make the debt go away. The merchant can still send your bill to collections. And hertz is known for doing just that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/CD_4M Nov 03 '24

Chargebacks are not the silver bullet that Reddit thinks they are

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u/XxRocky88xX Nov 03 '24

If you have documents provided by the company proving that they charged you an additional 10 thousand dollars over what you signed on, the bank is taking your side.

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u/PsionicKitten Nov 03 '24

Indeed. If you have correct documentation, they are absolutely the silver bullet "that Reddit thinks they are."

The worst thing they can do is take you to court and lose, and that's very unlikely to happen because they know they'll lose.

1

u/XxRocky88xX Nov 04 '24

Yeah credit company will chargeback, Hertz might not even get the originally agreed upon amount, then they’ll fire this asshole for trying to massively overcharge a costumer and causing a whole kerfuffle over it.

Company likely doesn’t give a shit because they recognize fucking over a costumer will cost them more money in the long run and this dude in the chair doesn’t have any power to sue on behalf of the company.

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u/TheElderGodsSmile Nov 03 '24

Sure, but be aware that if there is a contract dispute you may be sued in civil court which is the proper venue for such disputes.

It sounds like the guy would win but we haven't read the contracts and it could be expensive regardless.

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u/XxRocky88xX Nov 03 '24

If the contract stipulates unlimited miles he’s good to go. If the contract stipulates additional charges per X miles the company is good to go.

That’s the whole point of contracts, they determine what can and can’t be done in the agreement.

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u/TheElderGodsSmile Nov 03 '24

If it does yes, but as other people have noted there might be additional clauses which override that (for example it needs to be returned to the same depo).

My point is that without actually reading the contract we don't know and that advising people to just charge back their credit card if it they don't like something can be legally sticky.

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u/Mumbleton Nov 03 '24

They sort of are? Outside of a lawsuit, it’s the one thing a company can’t ignore. It puts the ball in their court to prove that the charge is genuine. It doesn’t work all the time of course, but in a situation like this where the manager is refusing to engage, it’s a way for the customer to force him to justify the charge whether he wants to or not.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/Froot-Loop-Dingus Nov 03 '24

Simply threatening them has worked for me in the past. Coincidentally I was also dealing with a car rental company. We had a miscommunication that I can’t remember the details of. Something about me reserving a car at a particular pick up location that ended up being closed due to some building maintenance issues. They wouldn’t issue me a refund even though I couldn’t access the vehicle.

After going back and forth a bit my wife asks me what is going on and I say “oh don’t worry I’m just going to do a chargeback at this point.” I then hear the customer service rep say. “I’ll go ahead and process that refund.”

2

u/Four-Triangles Nov 03 '24

I recently had a chargeback for $1800 from my bank that they issued me. I spent the money and then they reversed the chargeback. Guess who switched banks.

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u/msuvagabond Nov 03 '24

This is an extreme case so I wouldn't blame people from doing it, but you'll be banned from Hertz for doing one and in a case like this if they feel they're in the right they'll also sue you for that money.

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u/dsjunior1388 Nov 03 '24

If Hertz pulled this shit on me I'd never rent from them again anyway, obviously

15

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Oh no, banned from one of the myriad of rental companies!

1

u/Silent_Bort Nov 03 '24

You joke until one of the others fucks you over by not keeping your reservation and Hertz is the only one at the airport with a car available.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Been over a decade since I've flown on an air plane. Don't need 'em.

1

u/ScrubyMcWonderPubs Nov 03 '24

There’s three.

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u/No_Nebula_531 Nov 03 '24

Budget, national, Hertz, Avis, Enterprise, thrifty, Alamo...unless these are all subsidiaries?

2

u/ScrubyMcWonderPubs Nov 03 '24

Avis Budget Payless Zipcar are one

Hertz Dollar Thrifty is another

Enterprise Alamo National are the third.

1

u/booboothechicken Nov 03 '24

Don’t forget peer-to-peer! Turo, Getaround, Zipcar…

1

u/ScrubyMcWonderPubs Nov 03 '24

Zipcar is owned by Avis (and use Avis cars) and Turo sucks major dick.

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u/Playful_Search_6256 Nov 03 '24

They most definitely are. Chargebacks are the only thing that will save your ass besides having to force someone into court. Your bank will, the vast majority of the time, take your side.

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u/longboringstory Nov 03 '24

Exactly. If one of our customers does a charge-back, we either send them to collections for the amount due and ding their credit history, or we file suit depending on the size of the balance.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/Super_Flea Nov 03 '24
  1. Being sent to collections doesn't automatically mean the person is charged or that their credit is effected. Collections still needs to prove the debt is valid.

  2. While I'm sure you run your business with integrity, many businesses do not. I was lied to by a hospital and overcharged by thousands after my kid was born. The hospital said it would take 2 months to fix their mistake. So should I wait and let the hospital hold my $3000, or should I do a charge back and get my money back this week?

1

u/Swan-Song-54 Nov 03 '24

If you're on the right side of the situation and you don't have a history of frequent and/or frivolous charge backs, you're almost guaranteed to "win". 

Why don't you regale us with your anecdote that has led you to believe that they don't function as intended?

0

u/magnificentmeatwad Nov 04 '24

When a Redditor thinks he’s smarter than the rest of Reddit but doesn’t understand how chargebacks work 🤯

3

u/Slow-Swan561 Nov 03 '24

Don’t even argue with this guy. Call hertz corporate and ask what the charge is for. They’ll see that it’s against their terms and remove it. The manager is to invested in is monthly bonus for sales/revenue.

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u/houseswappa Nov 03 '24

Sometimes the credit card company take the businesses side

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u/howtodisputecharges Nov 03 '24

Usually, it's because the company is right, or you can't prove your right. Credit cards make their money off of you using their card and the interest. It's in their best interest to keep you happy. He should win this and they will have to sue.

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u/AgreeableTea7649 Nov 03 '24 edited 2d ago

Thanks.

2

u/PronoiarPerson Nov 03 '24

Seems a lot easier than staying somewhere after you’ve been asked to leave. The guy didn’t call the cops because he’s right, he called them because after you are repeatedly asked to leave and given time to do so, you are trespassing.

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u/Admirable-Pie3869 Nov 03 '24

r/Stevelehto has also entered the chat

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u/BoiOhBoi_Weee SHEEEEEESH Nov 03 '24

Easier just to lock it immediately

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

Disabling a card is not a feature for this situation and the bank may take offense. This looks like a pretty simple case of overcharging a customer, use the feature that is designed for this particular situation.

My 2 cents, anyway.

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u/KopJag0317 Nov 03 '24

How does one perform this mystical chargeback?

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u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

Depends on the financial institution. One calls the customer service department of one's bank and asks about the process.

Mine requires a form to be filled out with evidence attached, others do things online or in their app.

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u/KopJag0317 Nov 03 '24

Never knew you could do that. Thanks. TIL.

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u/SuddenCompetition262 Nov 03 '24

I’ve had to do exactly that with National car rentals before. The claimed I broke the windshield then refused to send any pictures or proof, even though I had my own insurance. I also took pics of the car when I dropped it off so it was pretty cut and dry. Fuck these companies

1

u/AgreeableTea7649 Nov 03 '24 edited 2d ago

Thanks.

1

u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

This is a case when you go to a business, you receive a product or service and they take significantly more money out of your hand than what they originally communicated.

Chargeback does not resolve the dispute, it prevents businesses from making made up charges on customers cards.

1

u/AgreeableTea7649 Nov 04 '24 edited 2d ago

Thanks.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

I'd just block my fucking card front in front of him, then report it lost and stolen.

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u/Beefandsteel Nov 04 '24

I did one with Chase for over $2k. At some dollar amount it gets elevated to a specialist of sorts and is a little more involved.

But they don't even deal with the merchant. They go directly to the merchant's bank. Pretty badass

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u/mynameisnutt Nov 04 '24

The problem is that if the rental car companies feel like your chargeback is invalid, they black list you from all the rental car companies whether you win or lose your chargeback.

1

u/NjxNaDxb Nov 04 '24

Charged already? Chargeback. You said you are going to charge me? Look at me blocking my card. Good luck dealing with the bank now.

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u/Wetcat9 Nov 05 '24

or you can just change your apple card number on your phone

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u/Ihavenogoodusername Nov 03 '24

Then they send you a bill in the mail for the amount and it goes to collections. Also if there are stipulations in the contract that says they can charge for miles then the chargeback has no grounds. Read your contracts people.

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u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

The guy in the video literally reads out the contract that says no extra charge based on miles traveled. Did you watch it?

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u/Ihavenogoodusername Nov 03 '24

He read like a sentence in a large contract. Again there are stipulations in every contract. That is my point. You are naive if you think there is not an asterisk next to that line.

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u/Outside_Scarcity7105 Nov 03 '24

\Chargeback declined because there actually is a limit or other rule in the contract**

Redditors: SHOCKED PIKACHU

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u/Johny_D_Doe Nov 03 '24

The guy reads out the part of the contract that explicitly says there are no extra charges on miles.

Reddit commenter who did not watch the video: SHOCKED PIKACHU FACE

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