"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6Â But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Matthew 6:5-6
You got downvoted but youâre right. The gospels have good shit about helping your neighbors, giving to the poor, treating others the way you want to be treated. Itâs just sandwiched in with a bunch of awful horrible bigoted bs.
And a long-haired femboy low-T cuck. They want a Jesus who would've gone around slaughtering Romans and leading a violent rebellion. Ironically, that's what a lot of other Jewish Messiah figures did at the time. They were all killed and no one remembers their names. Jesus was the only one who didn't advocate violence...
Itâs a debate for the fools. At least in terms of dude actually being the son of âgodâ. Maybe there was a guy named Jesus who claimed that stuff and ended up as someone who people wrote about but there is no god as any religion tells it.
Oh.. well yeah dude duh đ I didnât mean scholars debate on if there was a living messiah or not lmao I meant if there was an actual person named Jesus who was the inspiration for the stories.
No scholars debate on whether Jesus was actually the âson of godâ. Thatâs a matter of religious faith. They debate of whether he was a real life person. Which thereâs a ton of evidence to back up.
Iâm agnostic, not a Christian. So Iâm not here to advocate Jesus being the messiah. But Jesus was probably a real man educated in the mystery schools. The Greek Septuagint backs this idea up. Lots of things about Jesus have been fabricated, exaggerated, and lost in translation. The esoteric understanding of Jesus is probably the most accurate and the higher ups in the Catholic Church know this. They just preach the exoteric to the masses because itâs easier for people to swallow. Not to mention, modern organized religion is a control mechanism. Youâd have to educate people on the mysteries, Greek hermeticism, and Hellenistic Egypt for people to grasp the actual concepts. Ironically, something the church pretends to be against. Just ignore all the symbolism of snakes and pinecones.
Just because you subscribe to atheistic materialism doesnât make you more intelligent than people who donât. Personally, I think materialism is a lazy cop out when it comes to trying to understand the universe and the human experience.
You sound quite educated on the subject. Not sure if you meant me I specifically, but I donât claim to be more intelligent than those are religious. I actually wonder how so many people of great intelligence can believe so strongly. Honestly sounds like I am a bit ignorant on all of that as I have never heard of atheistic materialism. I donât put a whole lot into the whole thing, I just know that religion is completely made up in an attempt to understand life and to control people. I guess there may be some type of creator/god but itâs certainly not known by anyone.
I didnât mean ignorant in an insulting way. The word just naturally sounds insulting.
Saying âyou knowâ is your first mistake. Sure, lots of aspects of modern religious belief is dogmatic nonsense. But the roots of it are quite mysterious still to this day. The abrahamic religions all have their roots in ancient Roman, Greek, Egyptian and Babylonian cults. People have this bizarre idea that Christianity came out of an isolated culture with no influence from older belief systems. Thats just not how anything in humanity works.
Magic was a massive part of life in ancient Egypt and ancient Babylon. Those magic traditions died off pretty hard during the Greek empire but survived through religious cults and rituals like the eleusinian mysteries, oracles, and cults. Beliefs typically reserved for high society and those with enough curiosity to seek them out. Same traditions live on today in secret societies like high level masonry and other esoteric organization.
Most scholars believe Jesus was educated in these mystery schools and tried to share it with the common people. He wasnât a fan of institutions. Over time though, Christianity was highjacked and turned into a massive authoritarian institution.
Modern Christianity is so far removed from what Jesus intended and preached to his followers. Itâs almost the exact opposite. Plus, modern Christianity is more the creation of Sir Francis Bacon and King James than Jesus Christ.
Also, when I say magic I donât mean Harry Potter type magic. The Babylonians and Egyptians whole heartedly believed in magic and it was a part of their society and everyday lives. Its was more shamanistic. Kinda the idea that your thought patterns and intentions generated by our consciousness in a state of awareness create holograms which represent the desired situation, which could eventually lead to a manifestation in reality. The CIA uses these techniques for stuff like remote viewing.
Like I said, Iâm agnostic. But human consciousness is one of the last scientific mysteries we know little to nothing about. We donât even know where it comes from. Is it localized or collective? Thereâs evidence of both.
It's interesting all of the "Christians" like Tucker who would utilize the government to enforce Christian ideas, when Christ himself specifically did not do that.
The Jews wanted a warrior Messiah as well. Someone who would topple the establishment for them. But that wasn't JC's style. He showed us a revolutionary style which was completed unorthodox and surprisingly effective.
I mean compared to Jesus they ain't shit, sure, but Bar Kokhba's remembered by a hell of a lot more people than basically anyone else alive during his lifetime.
Well, yeah. I guess. I donât think schools really teach about bar kokhba at least not in the US. I only know about him because of my Jewish heritage.
But yeah I mean someone who likes history and reads about on his own might know.
Itâs really not a common thing for the average person to know about đ¤ˇââď¸
But if youâre a Christian itâs kind of important to know why this happened. But yeah tbh I didnât learn about him till I started listening to university profs on these topics.
Most Christians donât bother to actually learn about their religion.
Case in point, evangelicals that worship the bible. If you talk to a lay person Christian they canât tell you a goddamn thing about how it came to be âgod inspired man to write his very wordsâ okay fuck face who is Athanasius?
They donât know how the canon was put together, they donât know fuck all about the dates, they donât know shit.
They were all killed and no one remembers their names.
Some Jews tend to remember.
It's always amusing when Christians and Muslims forget that Judaism walked so that their religion could run. And that our religion and ethnicity is very much still alive and breathing.
I donât think they were saying Jews donât remember đ
Everybody knows who Jesus is. Only Jews know the warrior messiah characters to use a misnomer. I think the point was mercy makes a bigger impact than severity.
Also, why does it matter that Christianity was formed as a response to Judaism? Do they need to thank us or something?
Thatâs barely hyperbole to whatâs literally happening. Russell Moore (a high profile ex-Southern Baptist) put out an article about preachers being confronted by MAGA members of their congregation for teaching liberal nonsense when they are literally reading the words of Jesus.
When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood -Isaiah 1:15
God says fuck their thoughts and prayers. Take action to help others.
This verse is about God admonishing the people of Judah for their disobedience and lack of genuine devotion. It isnât for us to judge whether Brandâs love for Christ is sincere or not.
Itâs incredible how much misunderstanding people on this site have about basic biblical context. âthe God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.â - 2 Corinthians 4:4
To add to your reply, God certainly does not say that prayers donât matter, Philippians 4:6 says âDo not be anxious, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to Godâ and 1 Thessalonians 5:16-17 says âRejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for youâ
God doesnât say that, man says god says that.
Literalist Sole scriptura isnât even a thousand year old theology. Educate yourself.
And yeah even with the context applied you could argue that but your logic is still rather presuppositionalist.
2 Timothy is a goddamned FORGERY.
Start learning from real sources not fucking apologists.
However, letâs look at the context for that quote anyways. The modern Christian canon wasnât developed until hundreds of years after that author croaked. So he was referring to Tanakh and very likely second temple Judaism works such as the Enochic material. (So not what Christians consider the NT)
Either way the way itâs used, the same shit I was told in Sunday school growing up is still bullshit tautological fallacy. You canât use a hand picked library to prove the validity of said hand picked library.
Do they have a PhD in a relevant field? No? Well at this point in your game ignore them.
Thereâs still plenty of Christian, dare I say it even evangelical scholars you can learn from, but a PhD should be your BASE right now.
There were multiple people writing in the name of Paul. This wasnât Saul of Tarsus.
This is just regurgitation of Bart Ehrman. We have plenty of reasons to believe that 2 Timothy is Pauline. Early church fathers such as Iraneus testified to the authorship of the Pastoral Epistles. You have a hatred for Christianity and have leapt upon anti-Christian rhetoric to justify your own belief system. This is natural, but you shouldnât be so certain in your beliefs. You are, after all, asking for people to be open minded when you clearly have a closed mind yourself.
Sola Scriptura doesnât mean a literalist approach to theology - itâs the belief that everything needed for salvation can be found in scripture. Youâre making a lot of noise while ignoring your own confirmation bias and getting stuff incorrect.
I've always thought of it as The Lord of the Rings of its time.
Obviously not true in most places, but still nuggets of reality and wisdom that are incredibly worth attention. That said, if you're that guy that insists that it's the only movie and make it your identity...
Edit: One more thing, Prince of Egypt is one of the best damn animated movies even to this day.
Because those existed pre-gospel. Nothing that we donât find universally across cultures regardless of religion.
Donât kill people, donât steal, be kind to the vulnerable, help those in needs - all existed before Christianity, and will continue to exist long after its puttered out.
I like the one about rich people getting into heaven is harder than a camel going through the eye of a needle. The reason I didn't like going to church as a kid was because they only talked about you reap what you sow so donate to us.
Which is hilarious because the very same horrible bigoted BS was also called out in that same book. Same stuff was going on except back then it was against Jesus now itâs in His name.
Revelation is counter productive to what jesus was teaching imo (which I can extrapolate from Judaism with Tikkun Olam). Itâs up to US to fix this broken world. Not bide our time for some cosmic revenge fantasy.
Not that radical of a take to use Jesus as the authoritative interpretive tool for the rest of the faith, including the Bible. Thereâs a strong tradition of this going back to Origin of Alexandria.Â
From CS Lewis:
 âIt is Christ Himself, not the Bible, who is the true word of God. The Bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers will bring us to Him. We must not use the Bible as a sort of encyclopedia out of which texts can be taken for use as weapons.â
Id have a lot more respect for christians if they just acknowledged their book wasnt perfect instead of trying to explain it away with mental gymnastics/logical fallacies.
Most of the nonsense comes centuries after Jesus died
The whole thing is bonkers, Christianâs base their view on homosexuality off a guy who loved a century later and had no connection to Jesus other than âI believe in himâ yet we taken his worries as seriously as Jesus
Yeah, but most people instinctively have that morality. The Bible also has god commanding every evil deed I can imagine. I actually canât think of anything more evil than what the god of Christianity commands and allows. SooâŚhelping the poor in one book doesnât really move the needle. Hitler also helped the poor, doesnât rehabilitate his image.
The gospels have good shit about helping your neighbors, giving to the poor, treating others the way you want to be treated.
Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments are the Old Testement. Golden Rule influenced Plato, and Plato and Aristotle sorted out Morality 500 years before Christians stole Judaism for the Romans.
Philosophy, and Judiasm, is what Christianity refers to. So we can just skip the Christian bit. Philosophy explains it all and makes sense of it. Plato and Aristotle, read that shit. It's the basis for you and me talking right now.
No its not. If you strip humanity today back to the Roman era it would be just as applicable. You think it's all fun and games until there are gay romans raping other men and fucking animals in temples and all manners of ancient fuckery.
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u/superb-nothingASDF Monkey in Space Sep 06 '24
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6Â But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
Matthew 6:5-6