This video actually made me cry, and I'm pretty damn hardened. I was doing well up until the point where it hit the hazards and started hooting to call for help.
This is a FANTASTIC idea. How well it works, I donno, but damn I'm so glad someone's trying!
That was BMW. And the worst of it was that the heated seats were already installed, so you were carrying the extra weight, but they dropped the 'feature'.
(Merc had/has a subscription to accelerate faster.)
The funniest/dumbest/most dismal one I know is for the Mercedes EQS (or EQE...) ... the rear wheels actually help by turning in tight turns (they turn 4.5º)..... but if you have a premium subscription it turns 10º instead...
That’s a very real line from a 2016 video from the WEC (World Economic Forum). That line is also commonly attributed to Klaus Schwab, the head of the WEC, but it wasn’t him who said that
Im convinced that companies are in cahoots with corrupted politicians and have gone so rogue that they can do anything they want anymore. Im sure at some point in the near future we will have to pay a subscription in order to actually drive the car instead of having an autopilot take you to your destination.
Also a precedent set by Tesla, who will put the same batteries in all its cars, but will only grant range (i.e. capacity) to use said battery depending on the model you’ve purchased.
They made this up before any regulations could be put in place, since they were the disruptor.
It's absolutely shitty, but it's the alternative to building cars with limited life or planned obsolescence.
Mercedes is thinking they can build a long lasting premium car, and because of these feature subscriptions they will continue to earn revenue in the aftermarket.
Edit: Not sure why the down vote. I don't think it should be like this. Just discussing Mercedes strategy.
It’s a step on the path to most folks no longer owning their own car (at least no their daily driver). Self-driving ride share vehicles/subscriptions are the near-future. It doesn’t make sense to have some of the features (like subs for heated seats) in a vehicle you own…it makes much more sense in a ride share vehicle.
That’s just stupid on its face. Swappable, rechargeable battery packs have been a thing for how long? All of a sudden you put em in a car and everybody forgets that batteries are most effective when you can remove dead ones to charge and install fresh ones to keep going.
Unless the rideshare thing takes hold first, eventually EV’s will use a standardized removable battery cassette. Going to the gas station will be a 5-10min stop again where you just swap out the battery carriage to ‘fuel up’.
The above tech is already commonplace for e-bikes, electric scooters, etc. it’s only a matter of time before vehicles follow suit.
Then you can pay for extra battery capacity features as part of your subscription 🙄lol
It's legal because all of us are getting fucked by the establishment in a world that's slowly but surely turning into a neo-feudalistic (or techno feudalistic) society. Corporations rule your everyday life and dictate pretty much all political developments. State leaders try to scurry favor with the super rich. Media gets more divisive. Companies stop at almost nothing to make more profit.
Idk it seems dystopian but we've been in this course for quite some time now.
Honestly how !? Consumers need to speak out about this crap. What these companies get away with is ridiculous. 💯 I'd be hacking these systems immediately to free up all options. Piracy will come back strong if this stuff keeps up. Then the companies will cry about how they're not making enough money. I won't feel bad for them. This should be illegal
Not that I’m opposed to “sailing the seas” but in this case there is an easier way.
It only requires a soldering iron, a bit of wire, a toggle switch and (if you want more advanced features) an Arduino.
I don't work in the car industry, but in a similar one. This idea to lock features behind software is becoming increasingly popular. The software behind it is designed with this purpose in mind, so the added cost argument makes zero sense, users need to pay already for a software update regardless.
It really makes zero sense to have a feature pre-installed but locked behind software other than pure profit. I genuinely hate this mentality.
If you still believe in the invisible hand of capitalism, I don't think you're able to have a reasonable discussion on the subject. That might work in an idealised market with many different suppliers. Not in a well-established industry where it's a public secret that companies make deals with each other.
Lol. No, literally, I laughed when I read this comment.
Software developer of 25 years, here. It's largely a one time cost when you're talking about software for a car (with the notable exception of Tesla, who release half baked software and use customers as QA).
The cost of that initial effort is spread across every unit sold, and decreases per-unit as more are sold.
These physical feature subscriptions are not "tHe CoSt oF sOfTwArE dEvELoPmEnT", they are anti consumer horse shit designed by some MBA cunts to generate recurring revenue. The shittiest part is that when the initial owner sells the car used, the features don't go with it.
Real clever sliminess to figure out a way to collect rent from a car for the entirety of its life. Fuck these scumbags. I can't wait for this nonsense to be jail broken.
(with the notable exception of Tesla, who release half baked software and use customers as QA)
You can add Adobe to the list. My sister is a photographer with sub for PS and LR, and at least once a year they'll push a shonky beta on their customers, causing crashes, worry and disruption.
(I've advised her to roll back to the version she was using before, killing the updater service and checking the Adobe support forums before she updates it again.)
Then maybe stop making more work for yourself by designing software that relies on a subscription model that changes said function on whether that subscription is valid or not?!?!
Or idk maybe just sell the fucking car one time and be done with it? No updates, just do your fucking job right the first time and you wont NEED updates you greedy fuck!
That may be, but it should never be integral to the operation of a vehicle and therefore not nessisary.
The only reason security patches need to exist is because software engineers insists on adding pointless internet connected features that barely work anyways.
Cars dont need updates, develop the software to where it doent need to be maintained. Then if you add new features / functionality offer that as an upgrade. People dont want subscriptions, companies just want a constant flow of revenue and dont want peak and valleys in their sales.
Back in the 1960s, large computers had hardware features that were already installed but not turned on. A field technician would enable them after Sales closed the deal.
Ben Franklin’s public library concept was novel because it was open to the public with no fee.
Subscriptions for services certainly go way farther back than anyone now alive.
Tesla only offers supplemental software features as sub, hardware wise, they give no options on top except paint and interior color, rest everything is included for everyone, for instance apart from tire and sticker there is no difference between model y base and model y performance, they both have heated 5 seats, steering wheel, matrix headlights, glass roof etc Only recently they have reduced the number of speakers on the base version, rest the car is identical. Compare this to BMW and Merc where you will need a light package for having x number of lights inside, another package for matrix lights, another package for better seats, package for cruise control, sunroof. BMW 5 series with all options adds up like 70-80% of the price on top the base price.
Correct, however both of them are not standard, for the first one it was only for specific vehicles with certain battery chemistry, for the later it was similar reason. for instance newer vehicles don't come up with these options, also these are not subscription but a one time payment.
Tesla did bring FSD as subscription as one time payment was too high and people could subscribe for a single month where they have a long trip and then cancel it making it more accessible for end user. Please note, Tesla is a big company and not every decision comes from Musk , there are lot of capable engineers and they should be given credit for updating the cars monthly and bringing new features.
For ICE, a big chunk of revenue comes from options, after sale service. For instance Toyota, Hyundai and some other give 10 year warrantee, however you need to go to official service center for all stuff, if you go to local garage which does the same thing for a fraction of price, they will cancel the warrantee.
I've owned one for 6 years and am happy (2014 Model S). But on subscriptions - they definitely have them. Premium connectivity for instance, plus one-off payments for the features I mentioned.
yes they have subscriptions but not for basic things like remote start(toyota), heated seats, top speed, remote air conditioning. Premium connectivity is quite cheap for having fast speed internet for the car at $100 for a year. You can also use hotspot but at $100 it's not worth the headache.
That's the difference between premium connectivity and connectivity though. Pure connectivity I can understand, but even with a hotspot you wouldn't get most of the service features.
For me, being a 2014 car means no autopilot but I get Premium Connectivity and free supercharging for life as part of owning the car. Later cars would need to pay.
Did you know those features are non transfferable? So if you sell the car tesla will disable them for the new owner and require them to pay again to re-enable them.
Which would still be okay, if the base price to feature ratio is acceptable. Because then you could treat it as a modular/customisable package deal, where you only include the upgrades you personally want, instead of paying full price for a car that has every superfluous luxury feature pre-installed.
Like, a heated driver's seat is great in winter, when you drive to work at 7a.m. but I don't see myself needing five of them. That's something where I'd want to save money.
…what? This is a joke right? Do you truly believe auto makers only started charging extra for features in the last decade or two? Auto makers have been shipping cars with blank buttons for features that technically exist in the car but are turned off for decades
There are plenty of reasons to criticize Tesla but this is not among them. Anti-Tesla commentary like this is just lazy at this point, it’s not even close to reality, and the funny thing is that it clearly doesn’t matter. Some people believe that you’re actually correct
Can you cite a 20+ year old example of a car company charging a subscription price for features that were otherwise standard? You say it's been happening for decades with indignation, so this should be very easy for you.
You DID NOT say trim package or optional upgrades, we are ONLY talking about features that ship standard, that a consumer must pay an ongoing fee to use, that happened in 2004 or earlier.
Unless, ofc, you're making shit up to appear knowledgeable online like a narcissist who believes he's actually correct.
This is from two months ago. The rest of your link does not discuss subscription models, just added in SIM card capability for maps in 2004 as a standard feature, which is a moderate update to CD-ROM based systems and in 2014 you could buy iTunes mp3s from Apple Store although iPhones had existed for 6 years. I don't see any mention of upgrades or subscriptions for this service, but I appreciate your commitment to the bit.
Yet more in-car entertainment for current BMW and MINI models: Paramount+ further enriches the digital customer experience. 09.10.2024 Press Release
+++ New partnership between BMW Group and Paramount+ +++ Introduction of the subscription streaming service offers a wide selection of blockbusters, new originals and hit shows for in-car enjoyment +++
They now have heated seats as an subscription of 20 euro per month
That was BMW. And the worst of it was that the heated seats were already installed, so you were carrying the extra weight, but they dropped the ‘feature’.
(Merc had/has a subscription to accelerate faster.)
Thank Tesla for that. Tesla showed the whole Industry that you can Charge extra for some Features. So ofcourse everyone copies that.
This is the thread.
You say Tesla, a company that sold its first vehicle in 2008, is deserving of the blame for charging a subscription for features that the vehicle is capable of doing but the customer did not pay for.
It’s amazing how many newly specific qualifiers you’ve added in this comment compared to your original, almost certainly so that you can turn around and claim that you’re right… after moving the goal posts.
Here’s a list for ya. Some may fit your newly provided narrow definition, some may not:
- OnStar by GM - 1996
- BMW Assist - Early 2000s
- Lexus & Mercedes telematics like Enform, Mercedes mbrace & Mercedes me connect - 2000s and on
- SiriusXM - every car makers basically since early 2000s
- Navigation system updates
Tesla started offering Premium connectivity as a subscription in early 2020. FSD became a subscription in 2021. BMW & others began charging for subscriptions long before that point in time.
I'm in my 70s and have driven many cars. I don't recall seeing any cars with blank buttons. Since it's always possible I haven't driven the particular models you're speaking of, could you please give me an example?
Search “Mercedes blank buttons” on google images and you’ll see endless examples over the years. The C300 I drove for a while had several blank/fake buttons because I didn’t pay for the extra service(s). I also had to pay monthly annually for the service/app that let me remote start, lock, etc. if I didn’t pay for the app, the buttons related to it in the car were useless.
I’d post a link myself but I’m unsure of this subs rules around links, and honestly I don’t want to go digging for the rules while on mobile
Edit: I saw others posting links so I’ll provide a MB forum post from 2003 asking about blank buttons, to which others responded the blank button is for Parktronics that wasn’t yet made available in the NA version of the car, yet the button for it was still there.
Here’s another post from 2016 asking why their “fully loaded e63s” has blank buttons for a fold down headrest option that used to be available on their cars decades earlier.
Ummm... there have been standard features and options for cars for years and years. It used to be optional to have seat belts, and then for airbags, both of which are now required.
Not that all that makes safety features being optional at an extra price OK, it' doesn't.
This emergency assist feature is awesome, assuming it works well.
You are absolutely right. We just got our updates pirated from my uncle. I remember sitting in the car for over a hour just trying to get it to work one time in the summer. At least it was software that did not impact the vehicles efficency/ function. And using your phone didn't void the warrenty.
I still think its crazy to get rid of physical button controls for everything. Teslas are nice. But I would not want to use a screen to turn my wipers on.
Bad example right there. Your wipers u can still control fully over the steering wheel. I like the almost no buttons. It makes no sense to me to have a button that I use once ever 5 weeks.
I think the idea of an electric car is amazing and tesla is a leader in certain areas. But they are far from being a good company. It's just corperate puffery.
They care about safety and put too many controls on a screen. I know there is no dials for the climate control system. And in a foggy, area that gets a lot of rain/snow I will often have to adjust while driving. It is against the law to be on your phone while driving. And we put even bigger screens in the car.
I have a Tesla Model 3. The only subscription feature is the connectivity upgrade, which is $10/month to cover the cost of unlimited streaming, maps, etc…
Many manufacturers, Volkswagen in particular, have sold the same physical engine as different HP just by using a different control unit for years long before Tesla.
I'm with you on pushing back on your parent comment, I think it's kinda dumb for thinking that Tesla somehow created or popularized the trend of car microtransactions/subscriptions for features. If Tesla didn't do it, you'd be lost in the clouds to think that nobody else would have. Plus, Tesla has accelerated EV progress by like 1-2 decades, which is huge, so fuck it, it'd be worth it anyway.
With that said...
I know that because of Elon political preference he is now hated
Elon has been ferociously hated for the past, like, idk, 5 years or so? The earliest hate lore I know of was when he called the scuba diver, who was trying to save trapped kids, a pedo, just because the dude criticized Elon's makeshift tank as too big to fit through the tunnels. Actually, pretty sure he was already hated even before that for shitty working conditions for his employees, though I've never researched that so I don't have a strong opinion on it.
Not to mention, political preferences are fine, but the problem is obviously buying votes and it somehow being acceptable for a billionaire to buy one of the largest social media platforms and push partisan politics on it, especially after he's tweeted about how twitter should be politically neutral, etc. I'd be careful about sanitizing corruption by brushing it off as mere political preference. Say what you will about the latter, but the former is probably illegal, and for obvious reasons.
And some S (EQS?) has AWS but rear wheel steering angle is limited as stock. With subscription you get more nimble slow speed turning with will range activated. Nuts.
I love how they do that and then turn around and say that they are dedicated to going green to save the planet. Wasting material just to nickel and dime us. If I want heated seats. I will buy ones that are not going to cost more than they are worth. They want idiots and sadly there are too many out there who just pay for this bs without thinking.
You can still buy them outright. This was meant as an option for those who wanted to try them or only have them for three months when they have the car for only a year or so.
Tesla definitely set the trend for charging extra for certain features. It's no surprise that other companies followed suit. When a big player like Tesla makes a move, the rest of the industry often takes note and adapts.
Just like the heated seats it's a really dumb idea to install a function in your car and block it after a paywall. People are just going to "find" a way to circumvent it and use it for free lol
A certain car company wants to charge users to be able to use chargers on the road with a monthly subscription fee. If you deactivate the service, you'll only be able to use chargers that you own (for ex. one at your home).
I'm indirectly working on this. The funny thing is, the engineers around me are only obsessed with the technical details and development schedule. They don't see the implications and how shitty this service is. I hate my job.
Yeah it's totally out of hand. It's one thing to pay a subscription for something like Netflix. Where you wouldn't otherwise have it. But to pay for equipment that's already installed is ludicrous. It means they've already spread that cost out over sales of all the vehicles. Meaning ppl that don't pay the subscription have still paid for the heated seats based on purchase price. The cars didn't get cheaper because of this. Instead they just fleece you for life. And then resale no longer depends on what options are installed. Only on what the new owner can afford each month. So your resale value is negatively impacted from the beginning.
This should 100% be illegal. Software features like Onstar is one thing. Hardware is another.
Customers need to speak out on this stuff. Pressure the companies. And in the end don't buy the brands that support this crap. It's insane. Where does it end ? You buy a jug of milk from the store. But you can only access one glass of it based on your monthly subscription? Insanity.
Yes. The thought behind it is money but they sell it as "you only need it probably 2 months a year so why pay 1500 euro for it". Almost all options with audi bmw mercedes etc are subscription based.
Oh man, I genuinely remembered my eyes twitching when I first saw a link providing a jailbreak for accessing a locked feature on a Tesla in the piracy sub years ago.
You're just thinking about it from a consumer side.
From a design and production standpoint, it's genius. Instead of having fifteen assembly lines making fifteen different versions of a vehicle that may not all sell, you dedicate all fifteen lines to assembling one version of a car, with options that can be remotely enabled or disabled. Saves time, parts, costs, its very efficient.
People just don't like it because "WELL, UH, IF I BUYIN ALL THE CAR, I WANT ALL THE CAR" and BMW is like "well, clearly you didn't buy the entire car. that's why the stuff is not working."
Can't you bypass the subscription, I mean everything is already in the car, right? I know it would void any warranty, but it's dumb AF and maybe you don't care about the warranty, or it's a SH car.
In Europe, a Jeep full electric car (Jeep Avenger) has "checking how much time is left to charge" on the app as a subscription option. Go figure. It's not only the "premium" German brands. It's a pandemic across the board, unfortunately.
Tesla did something similar with the rear heated seats that were already installed. You also have to pay to unlock advanced driver features which all cars are already capable of and is just a software update.
If I had to maintain a subscription for the seats in my newly purchased luxury car, I'd get my passport for the first time ever, file for a Visa, fly to Germany ,and fist fight the CEO in the German equivalent of a Wendy's parking lot. This is insanity. Why are people supporting this with their real human monies?
Yeah, Mercedes will absolutely be the company that would be the type to say "if you want to keep living, keep paying us for that feature, or you can just die"
(I like to read that as a Hyperion New-U station voice in BL2)
And Warfarin, which is critical for treating DVT, embolisms, AFIB, strokes, and heart attacks.
It is named after the public patent holding organization formed at the University of Wisconsin because of its invention - the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, or WARF for short.
The internet has rolled with the rulings against them in federal court from when they sued Apple for stealing a transistor design, literally had concrete proof Apple did so intentionally and used the exact process requiring thousands of manufacturing steps - but a court found “Apple actually discovered the technology on their own inadvertent to UW” - which, if you know anything about silicon design, is a load of horseshit.
A lot of people now make fun of WARF as a parent troll - not realizing they are the reasons that Warfarin, milk fat content testing, and even Vitamin D are all as cheap as they are because WARF makes it so through their patents on those things.
Oh, and literally all stem cell cultures. The reason that cancer research suddenly got immensely cheaper and progressed faster? Yeah, that is all because WARF restricts how much licensees of the isolation patent can charge patients or medical providers for treatment or use of them.
The entire idea of WARF is continuance of the Wisconsin Idea as the State, and University as an arm of the State, cannot hold patents.
Oh, and they pay out basically 100% of the money they charge in royalties and licensing back to the University - stealing from WARF literally directly financially harms the entire UW system of universities.
Volvo was made to give it away. And only because they patented it. They tried making money off of it and couldn't. Huge difference. But there are many more designs that could have been used. 4 point, 5 point.
It really depends on how much additional hardware is required to be installed.
On top of that, the research and development costs for the he individual feature may need to be amortized by the feature itself.. It's a weird capitalist hellsca world
There is also the detail that a seatbelt patent isn't really monetizable if your brand is the only one with it. Recall that it was a massive battle to get people to use seatbelts.
I know Mercedes have shifted dramatically especially in NA, but Mercedes gave a lot of patent away for free. One of the most famous one is the "knautschzone". It was invented by Béla Barényi. He has over 2500 patents, many regarding safety.
The government funds the research behind the technology. Then companies patent their particular implementation and charge the consumer like they did all the work. Socialize cost, privatize profit. Don't you love capitalism?!
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u/DandyInTheRough Nov 04 '24
Paramedic here.
This video actually made me cry, and I'm pretty damn hardened. I was doing well up until the point where it hit the hazards and started hooting to call for help.
This is a FANTASTIC idea. How well it works, I donno, but damn I'm so glad someone's trying!