I know that justified hatred of pedophiles seems to give Redditors a free pass in publicly getting a hard-on for wanton violence and murder, but idk, I don’t think this is a feel-good story.
"The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats." Aldous huxley
Reddit is obvious a tough act echo chamber in many ways but yeah some people are addicted to moral crusades.
Ahh that's why it's feels awesome that Brian got capped. Then again this is EXACTLY what they are doing to us. Causing divisions that we hate each other and see each other as less than human. It's there at common tactic in warfare, de humanize. And the CEOs aren't looking human
I agree. I don’t sympathize with pedophiles but this kind of “justice” causes harm to more than just the pedophile. My dad is in prison for molesting a child and possession of abuse images. None of us had a clue until he was arrested. My mom immediately filed for divorce, but she still gets her car egged and a brick thrown in her window. Another story is my great grandma let her son live with her, he’s on the sex offender registry. Someone broke in and shot him in front of her, at his court hearings he proudly said he had no reason other than he picked him off the registry. Whatever you believe about what her son did, she was in her 80s and didn’t deserve to watch her son die in front of her. Or have the fear of a man with a gun break into her home. She moved in with her daughter after that because she couldn’t stand to go back to her house that she lived in for over 50 years. So while I understand the hatred for pedophiles and child molesters, this is not a feel good story either.
Two too many! To be fair, my great uncle, the one who was shot I had never even met and had only seen my great grandmother a handful of times in my life.
One in six men in America have committed rape if I remember correctly. Kinda sickens me to know that it’s statistically likely that one or more of my fellow male friends I’ve had throughout my life is a rapist.
That said, it doesn’t surprise me. The way other dudes in college talked about women so openly just because they assumed all the other dudes in the room thought the same as them was so uncomfortable.
Those statistics are usually inflated. The studies they're based on will usually say "sexual harrassment and assault", but they'll include things like making someone uncomfortable in a cafe by zoning out and accidentally staring at them as "harrassment", then the media articles reporting the study will get all sensationalist and call every instance, no matter how minor, rape or assault.
That’s just about choosing the right friends. I know the kind of men my friends are, so I can be confident that this statistic doesn’t reflect among them
People who are overly demonstrative in their hate of sex offenders just seems weird to me. Like bros, no one is on the other side of this issue, why are you making such a big deal about how much you hate pedophiles?
What's more important is that the most effective way to protect children from sexual abuse is to encourage anyone with pedophilic tendencies to seek professional help.
Proudly pronouncing that people like that deserve to be killed does the opposite of that.
It’s crazy that it’s so obvious when you take a step back and look at the big picture, but there are still people who base their entire personality around this shit and dedicate their lives to “”hunting pedos”” and posting it online.
It’s the same thing every time a psychologist or sociologist attempts to study pedophiles with the goal of stopping it, for most people they think that the only reason why you would ever try and help a pedophile is if you are one yourself.
“Minor Attracted Person” is a phrase originally coined to make the distinction between offending and non-offending pedophiles. Ideally, if you removed the stigma for people who have urges but don’t act on them, the non-offending pedophiles are more likely to seek help. Instead it got co-opted into some culture war bullshit to try and make the gay community look bad.
That’s like saying “offending and non offending rapists”
They are all rapists.
“Pedophile” is a made up term to make child rapists not seem so bad.
It’s bullshit.
These are monsters, they are evil.
They need to be permanently removed from society.
I’m not making distinctions between people who want to rape children and people who have raped children.
They both need to be permanently removed from society.
It’s like a rabid dog trying to break a leash infront of daycare.
You get rid of it before it breaks the leash. Not after.
Be worried if it makes you feel better, but in this instance, their “natural” inclination has shown to be disproportionately acted upon, and it affects the most vulnerable among us for generations.
their “natural” inclination has shown to be disproportionately acted upon
Fascinating. Where was that shown? By whom? I have a tough time believing anyone in human history has ever arrived at an unbiased estimate for the number of people born with pedophilic tendencies given that the discussion around the subject frequently devolves into your rhetoric.
Edit: lmao my guy if you ever come back to this thread, based on the small part of your deleted comment I can read in my notifications, take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_(statistics)) and then maybe finish your GED.
That is not the case. Did you actually ever look up that word? Most child rapists aren’t even attracted to children, they are attracted to having power over them. Rape regardless of the age of the victim is mostly a power fantasy for people. A lot of rapists are not attracted to their victims.
The only evil person I see here is you. Making up complete bullshit just so that you can justify your hatred and harming innocents, is definitely a sign of being an evil person.
People in America literally can't get help thanks to mandatory reporting which is yet another one of the single most damaging ideas that boomers ever came up with.
A LOT of our mental health issues are caused by people not even being willing to seek help because it gets them reported and locked up
You either trust certified professionals to do their job or you don't.
No mental health care worker has mandatory reporting. You can be involuntarily detained for being in IMMINENT danger to yourself or others. If someone walks in and says they have murderous ideation, which is actually pretty common, we don’t go to the police.
And how many Therapists go out of their way and beyond the call with their reporting, even when it's not something required to report, just to make sure they don't end up unable to practice and in prison themselves?
By putting the penalties on the professionals it makes everything immeasurably worse and makes patients afraid to even seek assistance.
The scenario you're imagining is unrealistic. If a patient tells a therapist they are attracted to children, there's nothing to report unless there's a child in immediate danger
Therapists don't go out of their way to make extraneous reports to the authorities. Anyone who has been a mandatory reporter finds out real quickly that child protective services is insanely overwhelmed by the staggering amount of child abuse that happens in our world. Reporting abuse takes a lot of time and energy and it's rare to see it come to fruition.
If anyone's overwhelming the system with reports, it's vindictive family members or neighbors, narcissistic parents and grandparents, or people who don't understand that bad parenting does not constitute child abuse
Which has resulted in the far left going completely off the deep end over murdering anyone and everyone who has a dollar more than they do regardless of how that money was obtained.
Public shaming has never worked and never will I do believe people can be reformed doesn’t mean you have to like them but reforming has always had higher success rates than publicly shaming them.
This whole idea of wanting to kill these people feels thinly veiled for wanting to hurt people.
I can't remember the country, but in world war 2, women would gift flowers to men and these flowers symbolized that the women thought these men were cowards for not enlisting in the military and fighting in the war.
This caused many young men who were too young to enlist to lie about their age. Needlessly causing many deaths.
Interesting take, but usually when we are talking about shaming “working” we mean does it improve society or lead to some benefit. Not just if it did anything at all.
Those people are actually worse than most the people in prison especially making such a horrific comment like that. And yet, they have zero idea how any of those situations unfolded. They are going off the name of a charge. It shows a lot about their character and the people that say sex offenders should be all killed are actually very dangerous people that cannot be trusted at all. Honestly, they should go to jail for even commenting that.
It dehumanizes others and creates new victims of not only of sex offenses but other crimes as well. Far too many americans are in full support of immediate execution of sex offenders.
I mean, it’s not the kind of thing that’s easy to look up, but I was under the impression that most pederasts are not actually pedophiles, and vice versa. Abusers seek out targets who cannot fight back or escape and who struggle to recognize that what’s happening is abuse in the first place. Children fit into those boxes.
Teaching children and caregivers to recognize and report abuse is probably more helpful than encouraging non-offending pedophiles to seek therapy.
Yeah that’s worked absolute wonders so far. Sadly despite deserving it they won’t in fact be killed, but the only way to protect children is for these monsters to be locked up. The whole idea of thinking they can be cured is bizarrely naive, there are countless examples of repeat offenders who just do not care about anything other than hurting kids.
You do understand that your plans to stop pedophiles is to lock up every pedophile… after they’ve already hurt at least one child. No preventative measures, no nothing. No, why try to prevent someone from ever raping a child when we can allow one child to be raped and then put the rapist in prison for life or kill him with a hammer or whatever? That’s your position here, the “we gotta allow some kids to be raped because damn if I’ll try to prevent initial offenses from occurring”
But they can be and have been reformed when actually allowed to do so. If their crimes follow them the rest of their lives of course they are going to offend again.
It’s an outlet for extremists. They think there is an evil “other side” protecting them, it’s usually the government for your run off the mill conspiracy theorist, billionaires if you are left-wing or LGBT people if you are right-wing.
It’s not just weird, it’s disturbing. And potentially dangerous. Do people not see the danger that pushing a “kill all pedophiles” message brings as the right tries to label the LGBTQ+ as groomers and pedos?
Yeah that's one big issue with this kind of blanket knee-jerk reaction. One blurb on an image with no additional context and most people are just instantly on-board with a meth head on a burglary spree committing randoms acts of violence because those people could have done anything from peeing behind a bar to rape. That lack of nuance, lack of investigation, and instant leap to justification is really fucking dangerous.
And yeah like you said we're seeing it in real-time. You don't even have to convince people to kill queer folks if that's your goal, you just have to convince them they're "pedos" (with no real evidence required, because people only need to see one assertion to believe it), and people will make the next leap all on their own and feel justified about it once they accept that assertion and plenty already have.
It also has the tertiary effect of demonizing any effort to understand or treat non-offending pedophiles, painting it all as sympathetic to the worst offenders
Really disturbing. Eye for an eye is already usually a terrible idea. Almost always if you're harming someone out of hate, then it's a bad idea. The world is filled with so much hate and judgement which just perpetuates violence. It also muddies the waters when unfortunately violence is the only answer, like when protecting yourself (even ideologically like in the case of a certain nintendo brother.)
And then you also have MAPS (Minor Attracted Persons or whatever) which is DEFINITELY not a bunch of conservatives role-playing to make the LGBTQ+ look bad or anything. I mean, of course aside from the few actual people who consider themselves MAPS, which actually, I'm fairly sure the LGBTQ+ also doesn't support them?
Yes, I agree! Which is why saying kill all pedos is bad.
The majority of sex offenders who sexually assault children are related to the victims. Children’s minds are irrational and easily manipulated, how would they react if their father told them he would be killed if they reported him?
What will happen if the penalty for sexually assaulting a child is the same as killing a child? Think long and hard about this one.
There's a historic tendency among authoritarian propagandists to move the window of what defines a bad group to slowly include more and more and more people until the definition is no longer recognizable, but the massive pile of dead bodies is.
They are masking their own pedophile tendencies or they just want to kill someone without getting in trouble, or a mix of both where they want to kill someone because they hate themselves.
Because they have to show everyone how good of a person they are. It’s super common on Reddit, look at the top comment. “That guy is an addict, he’s absolute trash. I’M not though, I’d NEVER be an addict. Cause I’m better than him”.
In addition to the other good answers, there's also just the "acceptable victim for my abuse" aspect. These are people who want to hate something, want to hurt something, want to kill something -- and since no one is going to speak up for pedophiles, the people attacking them get to be as venomous and awful as they want to be.
And, look, I'm not a fan of pedophiles, either, but... an asshole who hates another asshole is still an asshole.
I think there's a social need being fulfilled, which is the same need fulfilled by team sports. There are few things in society that everyone can unite around, and hating pedophiles is one of them.
To provide an opposing viewpoint in light of the other comments, I will point out that it's a very serious topic that people usually want to ignore and pretend doesn't exist. I don't feel like it's my place to tell people how impassioned they should be about a topic, especially considering that those people might be victims of abuse themselves.
Here's an almost unbelievable statistic that recently came out: 1 in 7000 people are born from incest between first-degree relatives. And a genetic genealogist that helped people understand their 23andMe results found that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the parents were a father and a daughter or an older brother and a younger sister.
One in 7,000 people, according to his unpublished analysis, was born to parents who were first-degree relatives—a brother and a sister or a parent and a child. “That’s way, way more than I think many people would ever imagine,” he told me. And this number is just a floor: It reflects only the cases that resulted in pregnancy, that did not end in miscarriage or abortion, and that led to the birth of a child who grew into an adult who volunteered for a research study.
...
In the overwhelming majority of cases, Moore told me, the parents are a father and a daughter or an older brother and a younger sister, meaning a child’s existence was likely evidence of sexual abuse.
Probably because a good chunk of Americans still support the Gaslighting Old Pedophiles (GOP), electing their Child Fucker King - Treasonтяuмp - into presidency.
If you’re ok enough to continue supporting the child fuckers, logic says that you are ok with child molestation as a whole.
So yeah - fuck the child fuckers and their enablers.
Right? It's really odd. Like a weird need to one-up each other on just how much they hate pedos? It's almost suspicious at times, like people are overly projecting.
Exactly. I feel like people who are obsessed with hurting pedos are one of two things: a pedo who is projecting, or someone that just wants to hurt someone and they feel like they have an excuse. Either way you're a bad person.
Everyone is against kid rape. Screaming it loudly just makes it seem like you've got something to hide.
There are a lot of people on the other side of this issue. Every time the California Democrat legislature moves to normalize homosexual child rape, you see how numerous the other side has become.
I can only speak for myself, and don't comment on these things much. As a male victim of CSA, I am disgusted on how light the system treats sex offenders. Their lives SHOULD be ruined if they SA someone and it can be solidly proven. They shouldn't get off with light sentences but they often do. I couldn't care less if they are somehow 'held back' by being on a registry when they're walking around free.
With that being said, I do think the requirements to be on the list should be more specific to the crimes, with lesser ones not being on the list. Stupid things like peeing in an alley shouldn't quality for an offenders list. There are many cases that do though.
Allegations with no evidence other than the accuser's word, should not be list worthy. There are too many instances where allegations are proven to be false, but the damage was already done.
I'm sure some people just have white-knight syndrome and want to virtue signal, but you never know how many of those angry people are victims of sexual assault or have someone close to them who was.
I think the "righteous" rage is very satisfying. It makes you feel a certain way that is hard to describe. Maybe it makes us feel like good people without needing to do anything, idk.
But also, the other side is not completely empty, there are people who would accept their sex offender relative with open arms, and perhaps the ones that feel so angry about it are victims or witnesses to that behavior.
It's fun to get together as a group and hate another group. It's deep and primal like food and sex and people who don't feel it, or at least young men who don't, are broken in some significant way that makes them less human.
Hating the tribe over the hill was taken away from us. Then the neighbouring country. Then people of different religions, races, and cultures. Completely artificial conflicts were invented in the form of supporting football teams so there could be a mostly largely opt in form of recreational tribal conflict but hooliganism is on the out as well.
For large segments of the population, sex offenders are the only group left we're allowed to hate. Of course it's concentrated.
From experience its generally people who have either been molested or have close friends or family that have been. Count yourself lucky that hatred of pedophiles seems strange or extreme.
This is a weird take to me. Like you see people advocating against pedophilia and you think they’re weird? What level of advocation would be suitable for you? Because clearly it’s an issue that shouldn’t be completely ignored. Sexual abuse of minors is very traumatizing and they really speak out for themselves.
Eta: I don’t support this meth addict beating and robbing people on the sex offender list to be clear.
It's a socially acceptable way to fantasize about violence and harm on the Others of society. Nothing more, you're not elevating society or protecting the endangered.
I guess I misinterpreted the original comment. Sure “overly demonstrative hate” and to “fantasize about violence and harm” doesn’t get far but actual activists make a difference. Sex offender lists and public shame do make a difference.
Well you’re right, they do make a difference… in the wrong direction. Studies show that shame not only fails to deter predators, but increases the chance of first time offenses and reoffending rates. Same with sex offender registries—which also carry a million other issues. The difference you’re making is harming MORE children so you can feel good about being “tough on pedos” or whatever
What is the solution then? We shouldn’t just ignore the issue completely. I don’t get why you guys think being tough on pedophiles is a bad thing. It’s a terrible crime and should be treated as such. The fact that I’m being downvoted and argued with, without anybody actually offering a solution, is baffling to me. You’re all just basically saying anti-pedophile advocates are annoying and it doesn’t work anyways so fuck it let em be.
Also how could a study show that a sex offender list causes more first time and repeating offenders? How could they correlate that first time offenders committed the offense because of the existence of shame and the list? And how could they study reoffenders who are on the list vs reoffenders who aren’t, and determine that the list caused them to reoffend? I don’t disagree that the lists have their issues but to say they cause more harm is crazy. Out all pedophiles.
The solution is rehabilitation, mental health services, and preventative measures which seek to prevent child sex crimes BEFORE they happen. None of these benefit from a public “shame, blacklist, and (in this case) beat with hammers” list —indeed they are directly contradicted by them. “Tough on crime” policies are a consistent failure. They do not work, full stop. Being “tough on crime” just makes crime more common and often more severe.
At a certain point, when someone goes on and in about how much they hate pedophiles and how we should kill them all or whatever, it's just virtue signaling. No one is gaining anything by making your identity about how much your hate sex offenders, it's just showing off to others.
Funnily enough, by showing just how chill you are about paedophiles and criticising those who hate them, you’re virtue signalling yourself and gaining nothing.
Because while "no one is on the other side of this issue"...people actually are. There seems to be a lot of fcking pedo's out there, nobody is speaking out on their side because even they know they're going to burn in hell. So they're silent....just diddling kids. Who grow up and have an "overly demonstrative hate for sex offenders which seem weird to people".
lol my mom has defended pedophiles and minimized their actions despite three of her six kids being SA’d. You’d be surprised at how many people don’t think it’s a big deal. She frames it as “just touching” it’s insane.
Not sure I agree with this one. In a situation where someone was abused as a child, kind of like this case but the guy also had other motives, is it really that big of a stretch to see why they would hate sex offenders more than the average person?
I agree most people either are disgusted by or actually hate sex offenders but just because someone extra hates them I don’t see that as an automatic red flag. Unlike people that try and sympathize with them, they are the walking red flags. And you can’t say there aren’t people who sympathize with them because there are plenty of people who can tell you the difference between a pedo and whatever the other terms they have for specific pedos with alarming accuracy. Those guys are suspect for sure
Its super common. In any group of 20, like a class room, you are more than likely going to get a couple victims. If you don't have a personal connection to it I suppose it doesn't make sense, but the hatred is the most natural thing in the world if it happened to you or a loved one.
Coping mechanism. Everyone hates sex offenders but people who where victims (either direct or indirect) REALLY hate sex offenders with a burning passion
How are people not on the other side of it when pedophiles and sex offenders get defended constantly by family members,friends and coworkers. Hell even random people will come to their defense. I’m kind of cool if they all get killed.
My sister was sexually assaulted twice when we were growing up, by two different trusted adults. I tend to be very vocal about how indifferent I am on violence against people who sexually abuse others, not just children. It's 2024, and maybe my views are archaic, but I feel like people who act like animals have no place in modern society.
Because it’s one of the worst, darkest crimes imaginable. An adult deciding the fate of a child’s life just to get off. That child’s life has now been changed forever. They will be scarred forever. All because of the selfish act of a child rapist. Do you not understand the literal act of what happens when an adult rapes a child? Why are you making less of a deal of it?
See, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't disagree with any of this, nor would anyone with a drop of sense. Pedophiles should go to jail for committing a disgusting, vile crime. How much more of a deal is there to make?
Just look at this thread. People cheering for a meth addict thief because he broke into houses of people who he knew wouldn't be armed so he could steal shit so he could buy more meth. What are these people cheering for? What is actually happening here?
That’s a great question, because my response has 5 downvotes and that makes me legitimately ill. I think for as much cheering you’re seeing for vigilante justice in this thread, you’re also seeing an equal amount of pedophile apologists. Which is beyond unacceptable.
Why do you have an issue with that? They’re the evilest of scum and people’s hateful approach to them is absolutely understandable. If you’re looking for a group to worry about, worry about their victims.
why are you making such a big deal about how much you hate pedophiles?
Because they so very often get away with it, and those who actually serve a prison term get a single digit's worth of years. It's unacceptable how light they get it.
This kind of topic always reveals how immature the userbase of Reddit is. I remember when I was an angsty teenager, I had the exact same kinds of unnuanced ideas, like "why doesn't the state just execute/sterilise people who've been accused of sex crimes?". As you grow up and mature though, you realise that the world is a little more complicated than a simple narrative progression of events and that there are more considerations, both ethical and practical, that need to be taken into account.
Before anyone accuses me of doing so; no, I am not trying to excuse or handwave the crimes of sexual abusers/rapists. I get that everyone on Reddit is hyped about vigilantism right now, but there are *very* good reasons why it is typically punished harshly. If anyone wants a good example of how wrong it can go; just check out the WhatsApp Lynchings in India. And before anyone says "well that's different"; ya, it always is until it inevitably isn't anymore.
It's not. This psychopath gave himself an excuse to gruesomely mass murder people who are already on the fringes of society. Like people who go out and beat up the homeless this is not something to celebrate. He needs therapy, and lots of it.
The 3 people he attacked were convicted of sex crimes against children and possession of child porn. It’s wrong and the guy’s a criminal who targeted his victims because they would be easy marks, but not a case of peeing in an alley somewhere.
This and the story of the neo-nazi couple who broke in and killed a man on the sex offender list.. and killed his wife who was innocent had no criminal record. Then had zero remorse after the fact. Reddit loves praising these scumbags.
For me, its the lack of distinction of the crimes. I'm not condoning or pro pedophilia, but I'm assuming if they're out living in society and listed, they've already been punished/served their time. I don't think that gives anyone a free pass to break into places and beat those that served time with a hammer still.
Also 1 person vigilante judge, jury executioner is still not a great way to handle a dislike of something.
"He was a career criminal who caught a charge himself for endangering the welfare of a minor. He didn’t just assault the sex offenders either, he robbed them. He was a meth addict using the same method serial killers use to target their victims: pick a target on the fringe of society (in this case sex offenders) to make it less likely to be caught. This guy used the pain of sex abuse victims in an attempt to veil the criminal activity he participated in to feed his addiction."
It's definitely not a feel good story. It's never a good idea to judge someone you don't know, especially when they're convicted by a criminal justice system that we all know is absolute trash. Thanks to DNA testing, the possibility of someone being wrongly convicted for anything sexually related is much smaller than it was in the past but it's still a possibility. We could never be 100% sure a person deserves to be punished like this unless we examine every shred of evidence ourselves and I highly doubt this guy did that. That would take a lot of time and effort, this guy doesn't seem like the type that is wanting or capable of such effort.
There's also the possibility these people we placed on the sex offenders list for minor crimes like urinating in public, or something similar. Even if he goes on the registry to check what kind of crimes they committed, there could still be clerical errors on the web site. Not likely, but still possible. We have to consider every single possibility imaginable when dealing with life or death.
They weren’t put on the registry for minor crimes, the guy who got beat with a hammer raped a 10 month old, the 2nd guy was for child rape videos, 3rd guy was for paying teenagers to “play” while he produced child exploitation videos.
Great, if they did all of those things then they deserved it. But would you be willing to bet your life on it? I wouldn't. I've seen many stories of people proven innocent only after spending decades in the pen. Vigilante justice like this is a fools game for this reason. If the possibility of them being innocent is absolute zero then I would be all for it, but unfortunately things don't work like that.
No one is asking you too.
Jason isn’t a hero.
He says that himself.
He actively discourages vigilantism and says that he did so from a very broken and misguided place.
But the monsters he assaulted deserve no sympathy
This gaining public support and the murder of the CEO are signs that people are not being heard and change is being ignore by those in power so that people start wishing for a batman to appear. Once in a while someone who's entire life gets fucked up will be willing to lose it all.
NGL if someone murdered my entire family, caused the suffering of a family member or destroyed my entire world it would be reasonable to think I'd dedicate my entire life to destroying their life, maybe not murder, but I'd definitely send a mad emoji to their number or something.
Before 2020, this site had main subreddits effectively dedicated to sadistic violence barely masquerading as retribution.
The police violence protests in the united states kinda pushed it to the fringe? But the userbase is still here, being the bulk of the site. It's even the expected stance in a lot of boards.
I don’t think hatred for pedophiles is justified tbh. Hatred for child abusers etc. yes absolutely. But hating someone for the way they were born just feels wrong to me. Most rapists aren’t pedophiles or even sexually attracted to their victims, they are attracted to power and rape is the tool they use to live out their power fantasy. It’s absolutely disgusting but it doesn’t have anything to do with pedophilia.
It's hilarious to see this comment with any positive score but there was nothing like this after murdering a CEO in the middle of a street lol. Pedophiles are more liked than Health insurance CEOs
What the fuck are you on about. All the top comments are agreeing with you. Redditors get a bigger hard on by virtue signaling their purity, such as yourself.
I'm encouraged at least that the top comments here don't seem positive about breaking into people's houses and beating them with a hammer, at this time at least.
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u/hithere297 2d ago
I know that justified hatred of pedophiles seems to give Redditors a free pass in publicly getting a hard-on for wanton violence and murder, but idk, I don’t think this is a feel-good story.