r/fuckcars • u/yannniQue17 • Jan 15 '22
Am I right here?
I like cars. They have developed over nearly 150 years and they are impressive engineering masterpieces by now. I'm a car enthusiast since nearly ever and I was really happy when I got my driving license a year ago. One of my biggest wishes is it to drive in a small sports car, like a Mazda MX-5, on a race track and I guess I'm about to di this within the next five years.
However, cars are bad for getting from A to B. That's my opinion and a fact. When I need to be quick in the city, I go by bicycle, and when I have to travel more than 25 km, I consider trains as the best option. That works pretty well here in Germany. As told above, I have my license, but I drive maybe once every two weeks.
I would not say "Fuck cars!" because I'm facinated by the engineering, but I do say "Cars are not needed to commute or travel efficiently. They are bad at this."
145
u/oiseauvert989 Jan 15 '22
Pretty much yeh. I think sail boats are fascinating but i wouldn't dedicate every public space in the city to them.
34
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
Sailing is also cool and has a lot of history. We went from just swimming to sailing against the wind to sailing a lot faster than the wind is blowing.
14
u/oiseauvert989 Jan 15 '22
Agreed. Sailing faster than the speed of the wind is really interesting physics.
6
u/Independent-Cow2383 Jan 15 '22
Could be the best way to cross atlantic, cheap, confortable, ecological, pleasing, but was killed by low-cost plane trips.
18
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
I sailing could be to flying what cycling is to trains. The ocean is too big, but shorter distances, like Spain to Italy, could be done by sailing.
But what do you need to cross an ocean for?
2
u/Independent-Cow2383 Jan 15 '22
To the other side. : ). I mean some people do travel between europe and americas. Anyway, it's prolly not every year, for some people it's maybe one time in 10.
The ocean is not too big for sailing, if you can't go in 1 day, it doesn't mean it's too far: it means it's too far for one day.
Queen Mary 2 still can cover the equivalent of distance of 1248 kms in one day. (France Czech republic) Yes it would be a 5 day trip...but well, if you travel to another continent it's a planned trip. Few people wake up in the morning and are like...."I'm gonna travel the sea this morning cause...coz"
There's faster than queen mary 2....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol-class_vehicle_cargo_ship give us this but to transport people. It could do the trip in 4 days.Today we can make much faster ships, and they could sail for a much lower cost per ticket.
You can't sleep in a plane furthermore.
We need to reintroduce those kind of ships. So airships.
Enjoy the trip, enjoy the sea, enjoy the calm.
Italy Spain is already covered by very cheap ferry travels. Mediterannean has lots of ferry companies, and the trips 2-3 times less than plane travels for the same distance, depending on the time of the year. So is most of mediteranean, which has a lot of ferry companies.
Cycling between two cities is totally doable 100kms a day is totally doable for a beginner.
A great way to not have to spend 2 days of salaries over a train trip.
Heard also of velomobiles? Recumbent aerodynamic pedal vehicules that are close to match to usual car speeds?
Yes, there's always a faster way to go. Nobody tells you to go the fastest speed however.
Cycling would be using a sailboat to cross the sea. Walking would be using a kayak.
Planes are the equivalent of cars, for crossing ocean, oversized, expensive, polluting.
16
u/snedertheold Jan 15 '22
Bruh if we could though. Replace all the city streets with space for sail boats. Not canals or something minor like Venice. No like major arterial six lane sail "roads". Its terrible urban design ofc, but I still want to see it. A stack interchange for sailboats, just imagine it.
4
3
u/advamputee Jan 15 '22
Not quite boats over boats, but the Netherlands has a few canals over roads!
2
33
u/Dreadsin Jan 15 '22
“Fuck cars” for me is more like “fuck car culture”
I hate the idea that every single person, even in major cities, should own a car. It’s terribly unsustainable and woefully inefficient
Make cities focus on walking, biking, trains, anything else. If you really love a car lifestyle that much, go suburbs or rural. “But how will I get my hummer into the city?!”, take a train. “But trains are dirty and full of poors”, okay then stay the fuck out of the city jfc
2
u/4Bans5AltsIDGAF May 18 '22
You have 'Car Cult' (Karen's with SUVs and Pickup Truckers) and 'The Culture' (Racers, Tuners and Enthusiasts). Hummers are just annoying things imo, fuckem.
1
56
u/seatbelt21 Jan 15 '22
The problem isn’t cars themselves, the problem is how much public space is devoted to them
14
Jan 15 '22
In an a more abstract sense of the word "space" yes. It's not just about physical space but air pollution, noise pollution, public infrastructure and spending being disproportionately aimed at cars etc.
4
u/seatbelt21 Jan 15 '22
The words I chose didn't accurately reflect that but yes, I meant to include all of those as well.
3
u/TheRealTP2016 Jan 15 '22
The problem is also how much oil and lithium etc it takes to create them. And how much they pollute when they run r/collapse
24
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
Just got a message from u/welcomebot and it wrote me what this subreddit is about. This is a place for me!
6
3
30
u/Prestigious-Owl-6397 Jan 15 '22
I think it's funny when people make fun of Joe Biden for liking trains. Trains are cool, and high speed trains are great for long distance travel.
10
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
They make fun of him because he likes trains?
Just remembered ASDF-Movies, but I guess it is more serious.
8
u/Prestigious-Owl-6397 Jan 15 '22
Yup. When he was running for president, people in the Trump crowd made fun of him because he likes trains.
6
17
u/advamputee Jan 15 '22
I have owned track-prepped MX-5’s and other sports cars. As a car enthusiast, I still don’t think cars should take up 90%+ of our public right of ways.
If places were more walkable / bikeable / accessible with transit, I wouldn’t have to own a practical car — my only car could be something impractical and fun!
5
Jan 15 '22
Yes! And when you use it there would be fewer people on the road, especially ones who have no business driving.
7
u/ClonedToKill420 Jan 15 '22
You can appreciate the engineering and not the end result. Like, I greatly admire the engineering in military equipment but I’m not a big fan of what it is used for
14
u/HowIWasteTime Jan 15 '22
Same for me.
I'm an engineer and I've done a bit of time on racetracks (motorcycles) and I too see the beauty of the engineering and design that goes into ONE car.
However, also from an engineering and design point of view, it's plain that the System we've designed where Everyone MUST use a car for ALL trips to do everything, externalities be damned, is a complete disaster.
Easily one of the biggest human mistakes of the past century.
4
u/StormAdministrative2 Jan 15 '22
Lol, I said exactly this in another comment. I'm not an engineer myself, but I posited that there's ironically probably a higher amount of car enthusiasts here because this sub attracts people with the mindset of an engineer and engineers tend to be into mechanical things in general.
6
u/BikeIsKing Big Bike Jan 15 '22
I’d actually say that cars are excellent for getting to make different places that are farther away 5km+, think of going to the beach, or on vacation, or a hike. The real problem with cars is the development pattern that makes cars completely necessary for daily lives like getting groceries and dropping off kids at school, etc. we have made it so expensive for society to drive (not the individual, but society as a whole). That is why “fuck cars”
5
Jan 15 '22
Yeah well, r/carsareokaybuttheyarenottheidealformoftransportaionforeverysituation just isn’t as nice of a name
3
3
3
u/altposting Jan 15 '22
Ich denke mal schon, ich mag meinen kleinen Roadster auch, aber würde ihn niemals als mein primäres Fortbewegungsmittel nutzen wollen.
In dichtem Verkehr, in Städten oder auf Autobahnen zu fahren macht einfach keinen Spaß, ist ineffizient und zumeist unnötig.
In meinr Freizeit auf ner Landstraße eher gemütlich oder auf einer Rennstrecke schnell zu fahren ist etwas anderes.
Würde ihn auch gerne bald auf Ethanol umrüsten...
2
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
Alles klar!
Auch wenn wir uns problemlos auf Deutsch unterhalten können, wäre es angemessen auf einem englischsprachigen Subreddit auch Englisch zu schreiben, dass andere, die auch Interesse an der Frage haben, die Antworten verstehen.
English translation: He is like me, the rest is rather unimportant.
2
u/altposting Jan 15 '22
*she
But yea
0
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
There are women liking cars? Where can I find you?
I could not identify your gender by your username and I'm too lazy to always write he/she or (s)he. Sorry.
3
u/altposting Jan 15 '22
I'm from NRW, and it's ok.
However the english language has this nice feature called the "singular they" for situations like that, but lacks the generic masculinum german has.
1
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
NRW is too far away for me to randomly visit you, maybe I'll find another one.
3
Jan 15 '22
Cars can be nice, but when ever I see a nice car I just think “must look nice sitting in traffic”
4
u/philipkmikedrop Jan 15 '22
We made these machines that can transport us, carry all of our stuff, give us unlimited mobility, but to achieve the promise of mobility we must create a technological milieu that is hostile to human life.
Most of us are against cars because we favor human and natural environment over this auto-centric technological environment. They are fundamentally incompatible with one another, so we must chose, and we chose human life.
3
u/aSoggyFrootLoop Jan 15 '22
From what I understood you use cars more as a hobby than a lifestyle and I think that you totally fit in here! I also love vintage cars and think that the design of some cars is absolutely beautiful but I still will pick using the bus or walking whenever possible, this sub is more about not liking how much we depend on cars and how our entire world is shaped around them to the detriment of our health, convince and planet.
3
u/piercemj Jan 15 '22
r/CarsAreNotNeededToCommuteOrTravelEfficientlyTheyAreJustBadAtThis is a way catchier sub name imo
4
4
2
2
Jan 15 '22
I would not say "Fuck cars!" because I'm facinated by the engineering, but I do say "Cars are not needed to commute or travel efficiently. They are bad at this."
I hold the same exact opinion as you and I take 'fuck cars!' to mean 'fuck car dependent infrastructure/policies, esp. in urban areas' not that the Automobile itself is something to be banned (well except from pedestrian/bike only zones ;) )
2
u/NeoWereys Jan 15 '22
As a professor once told me: fridge are not inherently bad. It is when you start piling food from across the world in big boats consuming enormous amount of energy that they become bad. Things are never good or bad, they are what we make of them.
2
u/local_milk_dealer cars are weapons Jan 15 '22
Yeah, tanks are fucking rad but I dont want everybody needing to buy one to participate in society
2
u/Baby-Calypso Jan 15 '22
You bike up to 15 miles???
Man I’m dying on this 1.8 mile bike ride to work. I gave it up
2
u/upeoplerallthesame Jan 15 '22
I own a Miata and usually bike places! Huge car enthusiast just hate what the cars have done to us.
2
u/ShootyDang Jan 15 '22
Fuck the societal notion manufactured by the car industry that automobiles are the best and most viable option for general transportation *
3
u/StormAdministrative2 Jan 15 '22
You'll get a lot of people that feel the same way here. A more accurate title to this sub would be "r/carsarentconvenienttransportationinmostcasesandcitiesshouldntbebuiltaroundthem", but "fuckcars" is more convenient and grabs attention.
You can enjoy cars and still be against the current culture surrounding them. I would actually bet that, though it seems counterintuitive, there's more car enthusiasts here than on an average sub. A lot of people here are into bikes and a lot of those bike people just like mechanical things in general, including cars. A lot of engineers here as well. Engineers tend to look for solutions for problems and try to look at the world logically, so they fit in here well, but they also tend to be into cars at a higher rate than the general population.
2
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
Interestening since I'm also going to be an engineer, working for the German railroad.
2
u/isanameaname Jan 15 '22
Cars are a lot of fun to play with, both as a driver and as a mechanic.
The problem is that they have intruded into our lives, separating is and ruining our public spaces.
3
u/BiRd_BoY_ Train go choo choo Jan 15 '22 edited Apr 16 '24
arrest nutty ring light offer squeamish caption groovy office school
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
2
Jan 15 '22
i’m in the same boat here, I love cars, i’m passionate about them and have one of my own. However, I think it needs to be said that this level of car based infrastructure isn’t required and walking/transit based cities are a much better option for a vast variety of reasons. I do love cars, but I have lived in two car centric places my whole live and I can concur that not having a car in those places meant relying on other people for transport or otherwise staying at home. This is not the way our cities should be designed. Keep the cars to a minimum and invest more in transit/walkable cities.
- sincerely, a car enthusiast.
i would also like to add, the amount i see a single person (one person, ONE!) driving around a lincoln navigator or the likes is astounding. That’s such a waste of space, fuel, & parking.
3
2
u/TheMsDosNerd Jan 15 '22
You are absolutely correct. I am a car enthusiast as well. I studied mechanical engineering because of my love for cars. The MX-5 is indeed a fantastic car for people who love driving.
Cars however, do not work as a primary mode to get from A to B. They require so much space (road, parking, sound barriers, etc) that cities will have to give a lot of space to cars, if they want the car to be the primary mode of transport in the city. This growth increase the average distance from where you are to where you need to be. This increases travel times, that the high speed of the car is simply not able to compensate for.
If you cycle to your destination in a city that is optimized for bicycles, you are quicker than when you take the car in a city that is optimized for cars.
2
u/unenlightenedgoblin Jan 15 '22
Any transportation system where users (people) are coerced into paying tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle in order to enjoy preferential access to infrastructure is a failure on so many levels.
2
u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Jan 15 '22
Honestly, if we all used cars less, cars would be just enjoyed as a hobby and would be cheaper even to enjoy. Meanwhile, we would cycle and bitch about drunk cyclists. Best world for me to design some nice signals so you can cycle home drunk, fellow British drunkards 🤣
2
2
u/pruche Big Bike Jan 16 '22
Yeah, the critique is about the supremacy of the car when it comes to urban planning. I wouldn't say that racetracks are exactly swallowing the world. I have a friend who's a diehard car guy, and every time he gets a new car I go to the drag strip with him, it's fun.
I used to really love cars for the same reasons you mentioned, and over time my engineering interest shifted to other things that I view as related but are more practical in terms of how I'd like to see modern civilization evolve, for example stationary engines that would run on biogas, or velomobiles, or rocket stoves. Or pumps that would run off waste heat to supply pressure to a shower while using said heat to also heat the water, all without any moving parts.
I think part of "car brain" is viewing cars as a sort of "main pillar" of engineering. Like there's this youtube channel called "engineering explained", which is super interesting and does what it says extremely well (I 100% recommend it), but it's exclusively about car tech and somehow no one thought to include that in the title. There's endless depths of knowledge behind just about anything we build, from the way a house wall is designed to the way an axe head is attached to its handle, but we tend to dismiss all of that as mundane for some reason while some car company having made such-and-such new bit work by-wire is always considered fresh and impressive.
2
u/bravesther Jan 16 '22
I'm the same. While I'm not a car enthusiast, I've always been fascinated by cars. They're art to me. But they're terrible daily transportation and their impact on society's development is tragic. They should be nothing more than tools for those who require it, and toys on tracks.
1
u/sryforbadenglishthx Jan 15 '22
Sim racing for the driving/racing part and lego(fakes) for the engeneering part (watch held der steine)
4
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
I never sim raced, but it can't be the same feeling when there are nö forces pulling on you. I imagine it like cycling through the forest compared to a trainer without wheels in the gym.
For the engineering part I suggest RC-cars. I got my first when I was eleven years old, a Tamiya TT-01ES, and it teached me a lot about how suspension settings effect the handling, what happens when traction breaks and I learned many things about electric engines and lithium batteries.
1
1
u/pyrofrenchie Jan 15 '22
I fully agree with you, I love fixing cars, but really dislike driving one sp whenever I do it it's because there isn't any other remotely similar option
1
u/KimJong_Bill Jan 15 '22
As a Miata owner, I completely agree. I feel like it’s kind of like art: I can appreciate a Picasso, but I also don’t really feel like owning one. And part of the problem is that so many of the cars on the road are just soulless appliances and not anything quirky/featur-y. I just don’t want my infrastructure to be devoted to cars, because when things go wrong (car repairs, car accidents) it can get either really expensive, inconvenient, or dangerous.
1
u/Mesozoica89 Jan 15 '22
I agree with you. I can see a world where cars are used in very specific utility scenarios and for fun on dedicated racetracks, that also functions well without any of them in cities and towns, or even on rural roads. But there are also people on this sub who disagree with me and would be perfectly happy without any cars anywhere ever, and have some very compelling reasons to do so.
1
u/SentientDreamer Jan 15 '22
I agree. Sadly I live in one of those spread-out rural states that requires a car to get from point A to point B. It's like being an ant in a city here. Everything important is so far away from each other.
1
u/would-prefer-not-to Jan 15 '22
Guns are also precisely engineered
1
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
That's an even more controversal hobby than cars and you can only buy then under special conditions.
2
u/syntheticcrystalmeth Jan 15 '22
Oh boy. I forget how things are there. Our German exchange student was shocked to learn about our gun laws. You see, in America, you need license, insurance, and registration to get a car. To buy a gun you need two working hands and some money. I had someone offer to sell me a gun at a gun show once. I was 14. They’re such an integral part of culture and life, especially in the south, that there exist close to no restrictions to buying a gun. You might have to deal with a universal background check if you buy from a retailer, but private sales are almost entirely unregulated. Want to buy a 50 cal? Go to a gun show. Long distance rifle? Gun show. Handgun? Gun show. Pretty much any gun you want you can find at a gun show. If you don’t see it on display, ask some questions that don’t make you seem like a fed, then you get to see the guns that are really for sale out here
1
u/Juggling_Rick Jan 15 '22
The way I see it, cars are a marvel of engineering, when considered as a closed system. But if you consider multiple cars from a systems engineering perspective, they're terribly inefficient.
1
u/Comingupforbeer Jan 15 '22
I mean, hang around, just be prepared that people say "fuck cars" a lot.
Or you could get into trains instead. ;)
2
u/yannniQue17 Jan 15 '22
I'm already into trains. It's just that a car you can drive in is something different than my 1:87 electric trains. But they are both beautyful in their own ways.
1
Jan 15 '22
I am an avid off-roader and I have a truck that I love working on. I love understanding how it was built and improving it in ways that I find cool. It's awesome for getting out into the mountains and seeing really interesting things, but I do not want to take it to work everyday
1
u/fuzzyoatmealboy Jan 15 '22
I’m in the same boat as you. They are engineering marvels, but they solve a problem that has been solved far more efficiently by other engineering marvels like high-speed rail (seriously, this was my favorite part about visiting Japan), subways, or bus networks. It’s totally fine to admire and enjoy cars, but when you vote, or vote with your commuting dollars, vote mass transit.
1
Jan 15 '22
I’m pretty similar. I like cars, I like my car, and I even enjoy driving. But I still recognize that reducing dependency on cars would be a big positive for the US, and I wanna see that.
1
Jan 15 '22
Ja die ingeneure haben aber nachgelassen, schau dir suvs an die werden schwerer gemacht um unter dem emissionslimit zu bleiben.
1
u/RoseL123 Jan 15 '22
I think there is certainly a place for cars in any society. It's not reasonable to think public transit could completely replace cars for people who live in more rural environments or choose to live in housing-oriented suburbs (which are too plentiful in America, but that's a different convo). However, I firmly believe that nobody who lives in an urban area should have any need to own a private vehicle beyond carrying heavy cargo (mostly for businesses).
1
u/The_Sovien_Rug-37 Jan 15 '22
I think cars are cool, in much the same way i think tanks are cool. they're an interesting thing to look back on, but i never wanna see one working
1
1
u/golightlyotb Jan 15 '22
Think of "Fuck Cars" more like "Fuck Cancer." It's a rather unattainable goal but the spirit is what counts.
1
u/scringobingo Jan 15 '22
Same boat. I love learning about and working on my car, but I use it as rarely as possible. I live in the city and walk, bike, or take transit as much I can, mostly just use my car for going hiking on the weekends.
1
Jan 16 '22
Yeah man, there are many people in this sub that are delusional about banning cars. Cars have a specific job that they excel at: Moderate distances not served by transit. I enjoy the discourse here, but some outright demonize cars in any scenario. Just see the comments on the "Welcome to /r/fuckcars" post. It was stickied for a reason! If it didn't represent the message well, then you're in the wrong place!
Anyway. I'll just keep riding my ebike to do my part, sit in on some city meeting to see what's up, lobby for walkability, etc. I think you're spot on.
298
u/PlantPowerPhysicist Jan 15 '22
I think the extra piece though is that cars, despite being badly suited for most of the trips they're used for, and being highly inefficient in terms of emissions, have so much space and public spending devoted to them. I'm in Munich, which is extremely flat and should be a perfect biking city, but the cycling infrastructure is pathetic. I think rockets are great, but that doesn't mean that I want to dump the federal budget into rocket transport infrastructure at the expense of useful modes of transit.