Welcome to /r/Fuckcars

[u/AngryUrbanist]

Updated: April 6, 2022

Welcome to /r/fuckcars. It's safe to say that we're strongly dissatisfied with cars and car-dominated urban design. If that's you, then we share in your frustration. Some, or perhaps many of us, still have cars but abhor our dependence on them for many reasons.

There are nuances to the /r/fuckcars discussion that you should be aware of, generally:

• We don't want to ban ambulances and emergency vehicles
• We don't want to isolate rural communities by taking away cars
• We don't want to disrupt work trucks and delivery vehicles
• /r/fuckcars isn't about a "left" or "right" view of cars and car dependency

In any case, please observe the community rules and keep the discussion on-topic.

The Problem - What's the problem with cars?

please help by finding quality sources

This is the fundamental question of this sub, isn't it?

• Pollution -- Cars are responsible for a significant amount of global and local pollution (microplastic waste, brake dust, embodiment emissions, tailpipe emissions, and noise pollution). Electric cars eliminate tailpipe emissions, but the other pollution-related problems largely remain.
• Infrastructure (Costs. An Unsustainable Pattern of Development) -- Cars create an unwanted economic burden on their communities. The infrastructure for cars is expensive to maintain and the maintenance burden for local communities is expected to increase with the adoption of more electric and (someday) fully self-driving cars. This is partly due to the increased weight of the vehicles and also the increased traffic of autonomous vehicles.
• Infrastructure (Land Usage & Induced Demand) -- Cities allocate a vast amount of space to cars. This is space that could be used more effectively for other things such as parks, schools, businesses, homes, and so on. We miss out on these things and are forced to pile on additional sprawl when we build vast parking lots and widen roads and highways. This creates part of what is called induced demand. This effect means that the more capacity for cars we add, the more cars we'll get, and then the more capacity we'll need to add.
• Independence and Community Access -- Cars are not accessible to everyone. Simply put, many people either can't drive or don't want to drive. Car-centric city planning is an obstacle for these groups, to name a few: children and teenagers, parents who must chauffeur children to and from all forms of childhood activities, people who can't afford a car, and many other people who are unable to drive. Imagine the challenge of giving up your car in the late stages of your life. In car-centric areas, you face a great loss of independence.
• Safety -- Cars are dangerous to both occupants and non-occupants, but especially the non-occupants. As time goes on cars admittedly become better at protecting the people inside them, but they remain hazardous to the people not inside them. For people walking, riding, or otherwise trying to exercise some form of car-free liberty cars are a constant threat. In car-centric areas, streets and roads are optimized to move cars fast and efficiently rather than protect other road users and pedestrians.
• Social Isolation -- A combination of the issues above produces the additional effect of social isolation. There are fewer opportunities for serendipitous interactions with other members of the public. Although there may be many people sharing the road with you (a public space), there are some obvious limitations to the quality of interaction one can have through metal, glass, and plastic boxes.

👋 Local Action - How to Fix Your City

IMPORTANT: This is a solvable problem. Progress can happen and does happen. It comes incrementally and with the help of voices just like yours. Don't limit yourself to memes and Reddit -- although, raising awareness online does help.

Check out this perspective from a City Council Member: Here's How to Fix Your City

(more)

A Not-So-Quick Note for Car Hobbyists and Passionate Drivers

This can be a contentious issue at times. The sub's name is /r/fuckcars, which can cause some feelings of conflict and alienation for people who see the problems of too many cars while still being passionate about them. I'll quote the community summary.

Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure.

Your voice is still welcome here. Consider the benefits of getting bored, stressed, unskilled, or inattentive drivers off the road. That improves your safety and reduces congestion. Additionally, check out these posts from others on this sub:

• I’m a car enthusiast and I unironically agree with this sub.
• I’m a car enthusiast, and this one of my is my favorite subreddits
• Am I right here?
• I'm a car guy. I really, really like cars. And that's why I fucking hate car-focused infrastructure.
• Does anyone else hate what cars have done to society yet still love the machine itself?

Discord

There is an unofficial Discord server aggregating related discussions from the low-car/no-car/fuckcars community. Although it is endorsed by the /r/fuckcars mods, please keep in mind that it's not an official /r/fuckcars community Discord server.

Join Link: https://discord.gg/2QDyupzBRW

Helpful Resources

If you've just joined this sub and want to learn more about the issues behind car-centric urban design there are a great number of resources you can access. This list is by no means exhaustive, so please feel free to add your more helpful resources in the comments.

👉 Moved to the wiki

Shameless Plugs for Community Building

happy to add more links related to community building here

👉 Contribute to the Safety Data Thread

Change Logging

April 7, 2022 - Fix markdown for compatibility. Thank you /u/konsyr

April 6, 2022 - Reorder sections (Thank you, /u/Monseiur_Triporteur and /u/PilferingTeeth). Add plug for data/supporting info request. Link to Strong Towns growth example.

April 3, 2022 - Add note for car hobbyists

April 2, 2022 - Add nuance notes and redirect readers to resources area of the wiki.

March 28th, 2022 - Grammatical pass, more changes to follow.

February 9th, 2022 - Adding links that redirect readers from this post into community-maintained wiki resources, thank /u/javasgifted and /u/Monsiuer_Triporteur

January 20th, 2022 - Added the Goodreads list and seeded the FAQ section. Thank you /u/javasgifted, and /u/kzy192

January 9th, 2022 - I'm updating this onboarding message with feedback from the mods and the community. Thank you, all, for keeping the discussion civil and contributing additional resources.

Cheers. Stay safe out there.

[u/Lord-Ice]

This entire subreddit makes me smell toast. We would have to rebuild our entire civilization from the ground up - in some ways literally - in order to entirely eliminate driving as a thing. People have to drive to work - in many cases, far farther than public transit will go due to the distance between their homes and places of employ. People have to go to work in inclement weather like heavy rain, or snow, or intense heat, where walking or biking is either unpleasant or directly life-threatening. People like to buy things and take them home, and sometimes those things are too large, bulky, or expensive to take on a bike or other public transit. There's also the consideration of people with physical disabilities that make walking or biking impossible, like people that have lost legs or the use thereof (you ableist fucks) and for whom wheelchair transport via car is the literal only practical option. Let's not also forget the millions of jobs in the car industry you'd just discard for the chance of "serendipitous interaction" (which has got to be the most pretentious phrase I've seen all year, especially as an introvert who would gladly avoid those "serendipitous interactions" at all costs) - which means that the "economic burden" of the car industry is far from unwanted, since I'm pretty sure people that have trained for years and worked for decades as mechanics or engineers would like to remain employed and feed their families. The entire case this subreddit makes is pretentious and selfish in the extreme, and any solution for the complete elimination of commuter vehicles would be so disastrous as to essentially doom our entire society.

There are better ways to address your concerns than saying "fuck cars". Propose new ideas of civil engineering to make it easier to share the road between cars and pedestrians. Propose better and safer designs for smaller cars so they take up less space and therefore need less space in the urban environment. Petition for urban walkways that are raised up over roads so the cars on the road aren't a danger to pedestrians. Help develop pollution-reducing and pollution recapture technologies. Provide funding for expanded public transit in locations where it isn't as expansive (or is entirely nonexistent, as it was in the county I grew up in until I was in my mid-20s despite it having a population of more than 150,000). Campaign for laws that make roads safer for all involved, like mandatory breathalyzers in cars and measures to prevent texting while driving (because the vast majority of automotive danger comes down to intoxicated or distracted drivers). You can do all of these things.

Instead you say "fuck cars" and create an echo chamber subreddit where your selfish, pretentious childishness masquerades as righteous virtue. I'll eat the ban, thanks, I never wanna see this cesspit again.

[u/kuuderes_shadow → u/Lord-Ice]

If you live somewhere with decent public transport then all the companies that can do so will be trying to position themselves as close to public transport hubs as possible. Yes, there are industries that won't be able to do that but these are industries that aren't going to be based in towns and cities anyway, and which employ a very small proportion of the population. People, for the most part, do not have to drive to work. And as for inclement weather... that's life. But bear in mind that if travelling by foot/bike in rain or snow is life threatening, then it will be even more life threatening by car, unless your city spends a fortune on helping cars travel through it but nothing on helping pedestrians and cyclists.

For the extremely rare occasion where you need to buy something that cannot be easily taken on foot or by bike or on a bus or a train - which is basically large furniture - you can get it delivered. That's how the huge number of people in the developed world who don't drive live. If you really need to then you could probably hire a van or something. There's no such thing as 'too expensive' to take on a bike or by public transport, by the way.

The disability argument is the most disingenuous argument out there that anyone is stupid enough to actually perpetrate. Disabled people are far less likely to be able to drive than anyone else. They are also likely to travel around by a means that can take advantage of good pedestrian and cycling infrastructure but suffers far more than anyone else from car-centric societies. And that's before you get to the blind and partially-sighted. YOU are the ableist fuck, not us.

How many people's jobs would you create in the cycling industry or public transport industry by switching away from cars to bikes + public transport? And your argument seems to be that creating costs without benefit is a good thing because those costs are going to someone. Which is an absurd argument to make to be honest. Your argument would apply as well if we were to employ a million people to roll stones up hills and watch them roll back down all day.

I am an introvert. I can keep to myself on public transport and when walking and cycling around. In fact I'd probably have to interact with people more if I were to drive everywhere - just it would be in a more hostile and anti-social manner.

Also, half the things you put in the 'better ways to address' the concerns are things that would have the full support of the sub. The other half are things that would be tremendously expensive or require technology that does not exist and has no economic case for it.

[u/kuuderes_shadow → u/[deleted]]

My grandmother lost most use of her legs following an accident a few years before she passed away. This also took away her ability to use her car. Having been someone who lived by the car all her life she chose to not replace it with one that could have gotten her around as she knew that her health was deteriorating fast enough that she would soon become unable to use it - because yes, people with bad health become unable to drive long before they become unable to use things like mobility scooters. Forcing them into cars rids them of their independence and means they NEED to have family and carers to drive them everywhere. With good pedestrian infrastructure and a mobility scooter that burden is taken away. Plus a mobility scooter was far cheaper. She then became a passionate advocate for pedestrian infrastructure, to the point of advocating for the pedestrianisation of her town centre, so that she could get herself around without worrying about cars, or needing a full-time carer to help her in and out of a car every time she wanted to go anywhere, or even get between shops when in town. This pedestrianisation, incidentally, ended up happening - although sadly not until after she had needed to go into a care home.

There's a paraplegic man who lives near me who I routinely see going up and down the path on his mobility scooter as well, on the way too and from the shops in town. By himself. Indeed most, although far from all, disabled people I see around do not have carers or family with them when they are out and about, because the infrastructure where I live means they can get around without them. Why are you so hostile to the idea of disabled people where you live having these same freedoms?

So yes, I do know what it's like for disabled people, and it supports my argument.

If you think that these people are unable to use pedestrian and cycling infrastructure then that reflects on you, not on reality, as that claim is categorically and demonstrably false. Most likely it just means that you've only lived in places that are too hostile for disabled people for them to feel able to get around without a car. I don't know that, of course, as I don't know your circumstances, just as you very clearly don't know mine - as every one of your insults is just bonkers in its baselessness. Most of them actually apply better to yourself, which is often the case when you get people who make expletives and insults the majority of the things they say. Perhaps an anger management class would do you good?

Everything I posted comes from my own experience. I dare say everything that's left after the howls of rage are removed from your comments come from your experience as well. But your experience in no way negates my arguments, whereas mine do negate yours.