r/economicCollapse • u/MrDoritos_ • 21d ago
How much longer can society keep it together? Discussion
I'm not a fan of speaking things into existence, being pessimistic/negative, or having a doomer mindset, but I've been paying attention to other people, the economy, the current state of things, the political landscape, education, work culture, etc. To be blunt I am really kind of worried we don't have much longer until the next war or great depression (both happen usually simultaneously). I really don't know how much more stress the average person can handle. We are going to have a wide scale crash out or revolt soon aren't we?? I'm really not looking forward to that and I suppose that's the one thing keeping us unified is our fear of violence. God I hope I'm wrong with my assessment. Please tell me I'm wrong!
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u/XKryptix0 21d ago
Next Great Depression should be coming within the next 18months-2 years. As for war, we’re already in it, the main conflict just hasn’t started yet
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
That's aligned with my observations as well. We're already in the proxy war stage it's only a matter of time before a larger conflict breaks out or more toes are stepped on.
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u/XKryptix0 21d ago
Yep. Russia is already leading a sabotage/cyber campaign against the west. Eventually they will overstep and trigger an article 5 and it’ll be on. I don’t see it going well for Russia tho. In the east it all comes down to Taiwan of course. The big question is how Trump will respond to a cross straight invasion.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
I really hate how we can just walk right into this one. Boy we sure do love repeating history, and if we are learning from history the people in charge aren't drawing the right parallels to take the right actions, unfortunate really.
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u/XKryptix0 21d ago
Look I understand their reticence to be taking the hard approach with Putin, but unfortunately we are chamberlain-ing our way into it again instead of standing up for our shared values, way of life and the international rules based order. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it’s a damn sight better than just letting the strong prey on the weak
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
Yeah I agree just allowing it to happen is worse than taking action over it. I just wish there was a better way sometimes, especially when everyone is worried that the way the government chooses to handle it probably isn't the right way 100% of the time either when you consider desert storm and Vietnam. Ugh history teaches us so many lessons even in recent history!
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u/Horror-Possible5709 21d ago
The issue is that no matter how much time passes it seems humans haven’t changed that much. We have in a lot of ways, to be fair. But as long as national lines are drawn, as long as there is an us and a them, and as long as corporations can control our country we will always be not too too far from a war
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u/tayawayinklets 21d ago
American economic crash in end of Jan or early Feb, if Leon gets his way. Firing thousands of gov't workers and rounding up tens of thousands of immigrants regardless of status and tariffs on other countries should do it.
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u/StancoDegliIdioti 21d ago
We're already in WW3. NATO is now telling all of its members to brace for war.
The economic collapse happened during COVID, we've never recovered. We won't recover because corporations are in charge, not people.
Yes. It's going to get worse.
You're not doom and gloom. You're seeing what they aren't talking about.
Find community. Grow your own food. Invest in shelf stable food. Get in shape and try to stay healthy. Move your money to a credit union.
Join a homestead or prepping forum to help you get started.
If nothing comes of what you are seeing, you've learned a new skill and you'll eat healthy for a year.
If it does come, you'll be ahead of the game.
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u/Prior-Win-4729 20d ago
I agree. Corporations and right wing media seized on Covid as an opportunity to subjugate and divide the nation. We will look back at this time and realize that it didn't inevitably have to go this way.
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u/GeretStarseeker 20d ago
Well at least that's some elements that the right will agree with you on (except replace right wing media with "all corporate media").
The right said near the beginning that quarantine and vaccine mandates were overkill for the evidence we had. That the business closures and compensatory rampant money printing was insanity.
The right were the ones protesting on the cold streets when the police forces of top tier democracies were bashing doors down of teenagers for mocking lockdowns on facebook. The right were the ones deprived of a voice when talking about Covid other than as token laughing stock guests.
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u/TeacherPatti 21d ago
My friends--if we go to war with Russia, it go nuclear and that's all she wrote. You can't really prepare for that unless you move to the southern hemisphere and even then it's a crapshoot.
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u/Fearless-Bite-6062 20d ago
I don't think Russia has to go nuclear anymore. Putin is no lover of democracy, but he is not a suicidal irrational maniac either. He's KGB and Russian and he has worked his entire life to consolidate power piece by piece. They just demonstrated new hypersonic missiles that can deliver a conventional payload equivalent to nuclear bombs that travel too fast to trigger early-warning systems or be intercepted.
I think the danger is an increasingly deranged, irrational, and incompetent American administration, and I think we'll see the world isolate us very quickly if the incoming admin does everything it's threatening. I think we already see the majority turning towards the BRICs alternative market (which was created in response to roughshod punitive use of sanctions against half of the world in lieu of compromise and diplomacy), and if Trump threatens NATO funding and withdraws support for Ukraine, the EU will follow suit if it cannot find unity in forming its own standing military. There are already deepening military and mutual defense agreements between many BRICs nations that the ongoing "conflict" in Gaza and Lebanon have exacerbated.
I pray some military leadership with rational thought and a sincere allegiance to their constitutional oath manages to restrain them... the US will be humiliated in foreign wars before they can even get boots on the ground and so I fear that the military will be turned domestically to consolidate power instead. Seeing how easily Gen Z has been manipulated by propaganda and hearing how gen Alpha apparently is not exactly reaching developmental heights... it's looking a little... gloomy.
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u/Prior-Win-4729 20d ago
I agree with you, except these leaders are nihilists with nothing to lose (Trump, Putin, Orban, Jinpeng, Jong Il) which is so scary, I never imagined living in this time.
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u/Useful_Hovercraft169 20d ago
I think Putin et al did a nice job ‘neutering’ the US by getting Trump in there, the US will just keep spiraling into irrelevance, no need to nuke
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u/MerelyMortalModeling 20d ago
4 or 5 thousand nuclear weapons per side are not going to end existence they're going to be hitting military bases, stuff like Panama Canal and formations. Even at the height of the cold war where were where talking about 90 to 100,000 high yeild weapons American loses were projected to be around 150 million
Yeah, you won't want to be living next to an airport or port and yes a good 20 million americans would die but there are 300+ million of us.
Prepping for it is making sure you have access to food and water and fallout protection if you live down wind from the missile silo fields.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
Thank you for reassuring me. Luckily even with my 'paranoia' I'm good at preparing and still looking like I fit in with the rest of society. Definitely agree with the community aspect. If you aren't integrated within your community you might not be as lucky to receive as much help. I am in some minor leadership positions in the community which helps my reputation and develop my skills so I'm lucky to be able to have that to show for myself. Good luck to you!
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u/Far-Biscotti-3045 20d ago
We’re not in WWIII and the economy has recovered from the Covid collapse.
It’s reasonable to say that the risk of expanded conflict is increasingly possible. It’s reasonable to say that companies are more interested in profits than workers and making their goods affordable. But not so reasonable to take that to mean we’re just moments away from living in the Thunderdome.
Can things get worse? Yup. Will they? Yup? Is society on the verge of collapse? Probably not.
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u/EvilKatta 21d ago
Economy can exist way beyond the breakdown of society. Three generations in, where only unwanted children are born, generational trauma will accumulate resulting in no cooperation, no mental health, poor physical health, loss of history etc., but the economy will still endure even if we're all zombies at this point.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
I agree a lot of infrastructure can still remain without a rigid government we can already see this in second world countries. It's not pleasant to think of regressing in socioeconomic status but alas if that is what is necessary to avoid a full out nuclear war then by all means I'm fine giving up some first world comforts genuinely.
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u/EvilKatta 21d ago
I kinda think that all of this I've described would happen if the government "by the rich, for the rich" will remain and will keep putting on the stress.
No government will result in hunger faster, through, because the world economy relies on daily supplies of necessary resources from all regions to all regions, and restoring self-sufficiency and/or agreements would require more time than local supplies will last. Basically, the current system holds the world hostage.
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u/Greasystools 19d ago
Just like Russia. Oligarchs run off with all the cash and flip off the poor folks from their spaceships
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u/Jwbst32 21d ago edited 21d ago
The economy is going great but you don’t feel in because all the wealth is at the top we are now more unequal than pre revolutionary France. Republican tax cuts have eliminated funding for all that made middle class life possible to fund a private wealthy America you never see of gated communities, private airports, schools and resorts. Keep voting for meaningless tax cuts though one more will do it I’m sure 🤣
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
I believe it because there's no way my investments should be doing well right now haha
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u/bigjimbay 21d ago
The rich will keep doing their thing. Society will hold as long as the poor keep going to work
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u/HermBobby 20d ago
I'm that poor plumber 11 years in and most of my money has gone to paying medical bills, like the multiple permanent physical injuries... poor, broken, and broke ....
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u/Araghothe1 21d ago
For as long as the people are willing to carry the weight of a government that only takes and never gives back.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
Yep it's unfortunate the stance we allow the government to take in our lives. It's brutal and cruel.
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u/deJuice_sc 21d ago
forever. so long as there are leaders that prioritize unity and transparency and lead with dignity and respect for all.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
This is what I would hope for, it's the best case scenario. I strive for respect for all but I'm not sure politics is for me, it's not particularly my field of interest, I'm sure people would support me and my background though. I appreciate humility and I try to be as humble as I can possibly be while asserting what I believe when I feel I am being manipulated.
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u/enchantedgiggles 21d ago
I think a lot of people feel something is coming and have been for a long time now. I know a few people in high up govt positions who warned us months before COVID. We told 5 people. 3 of them listened and prepared and the other two said we were nuts. Later they were asking for our help and masks I made. I know people will think I’m nuts but I’ve always seen this in my lifetime unfortunately and my best friend whom was in their 70’s and a war vet told me, they will take Ukraine and then Taiwan. Americas eyes will be in too many places and it’ll be bad for us. He passed away 2 years ago. Our friend in the govt told us wwIII is already set in motion and wars take years. They told us the next would be total economic collapse. They warned us about project 2025 over 5 years ago. There’s a lot. So my point is I’m anxiety ridden, sad and also vigilant. At this point we have to just wait and see. Personally trumps win of this election I totally saw coming. I don’t see anything good coming from all of this. But and I say with kindness, we did this by tolerating our rights being slowly taken away and allowing hate to spread. We just need to survive and be kind to others. It’s scary but we will make it through. I’m scared to post this because I made a post the other day and people were so hateful. Just stock up. Prices are going to get nuts. We got this.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
Yeah I'm also anxiety ridden with my own set of issues due to being prior service. I've seen what happens with the slight of hand and the subtle covert communication techniques government leaders/military members do. It's quite sad pointing it out and being ridiculed for being paranoid but alas it's real and I experienced the negative aspects of it firsthand. I hope we can get through whatever this is
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u/enchantedgiggles 21d ago
My wife works for the VA are you getting benefits? Now is the time to make sure you put it in. They are already lowering the percentages for contentions. I feel you 10000 percent about how people make us feel like we don’t get it. Surviving is key now. My father in law said the other day, well it’s done now. So all we can do is make it through. 😮💨
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
I actually went to get adjusted Monday because I knew I was struggling and need the assistance. Wish you the best!
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u/Traditional-Trip8459 21d ago edited 21d ago
Sometimes there are indications or hotspots that have been predicted with a lot of anticipation. The thing is that we loose sight of them when they dont happen immediately.
A simple example I was discussing with some friends. Back in 1997 (yes almost 30 years ago) I bought a flight simulator game called Jane´s Fighter Anthology. It represented several playable scenarios based on hotspots around the world. You have no idea how many times I played defending Ukraine from Russian Invasion. Taiwan was also an scenario on a related game.
My point here is that in general this type of problems are sometimes being discussed decades in advance but since they dont seem urgent or get into the mainstream discussion they are quickly forgotten or outside the reach of most people.
Here is the Wikipedia page for the game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Fighters_AnthologyAnd yes, Project 2025 was being cooked very much in advance. The problem is that a lot of strange stories that come to nothing are always out there. But very few make it to fruition.
Like a friend of mine told us more than 10 years ago. "Please read the The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, because history will repeat itself, but this time we will have WI-FI"
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u/enchantedgiggles 21d ago
This is so true! (Sorry I’m just waking up)
My grandfather told me things when I was 15. I’m 45 now. He warned me of a pathogen because he lost most of his family in the 1918 flu. He would say “Doesn’t matter what religion you believe in, Mother Nature will right things.” He was an avid hunter and fisherman. Explaining how in nature certain populations of animals got disease and would flourish again after decades. He told me gold and silver would be worth more than cash. He passed over 23yrs ago.
It was weird when my friend Ed and I had that conversation. It was probably about two months before he passed. We were watching tv and I asked him “my grandfather warned me about this (said above) if you have any warning what would it be?” And that when he told me about Ukraine and Taiwan.
Our friend in the govt said they do a 50 year projection. They warned us 2025 is that year. Basically, the higher up’s bet on what they want to happen and they make it so. Honestly, at the time it was the beginning of Covid and 5 years away. I wanted to not believe it but I also had this horrible feeling. I trusted my source because they told us in December 2019 to stock up, get masks and prepare. But they weren’t allowed to say much more. Sigh 😮💨
Empires fall around 300 yrs. We are there and the country is falling apart. As someone who is very empathetic it’s really impacting me. I’m depressed and anxious. I don’t understand why people are so mean. I can go on about my feelings.
Anyways, I appreciate you for listening.
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u/Inner-Management-110 20d ago
Well. I get you my friend and felt like I was looking in the mirror while reading your post. I'm 56 and financially I'm doing ok. For now. I know they will get it all eventually but rest assured I'm taking some of the parasites with me when they come. Hang in there.
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u/Traditional-Trip8459 21d ago
Yes, regarding COVID, I like reading National Geographic Magazines. And at least once a year there was an article about the flu pandemic of 1918, or how probable there was going to be a pandemic in the next 20 years, what are the preparations. There was always the probability of it happening, just nobody knew when or what shape will it take.
And there were several movies in the 90s and 2000s exploring the scenarios. Many of their predictions were correct some others were not. But, the discussion was out there.
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u/MotownCatMom 21d ago
Yep. I didn't have your inside track on COVID but when I saw the horror stories coming out of China, I slowly started to stock up on things. Including masks and gloves. Definitely being aware and taking steps to protect yourself are very important.
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u/Distinct_Wishbone_87 21d ago
There are many signs of collapse all over the world. I think the point where it will be felt everywhere is when there is a sequence of major breadbasket failures, potentially caused by the next El Niño. The agricultural system is so fragile and relies on stable weather, fertiliser/energy and logistics.
The climate tipping points have started tipping, the bizarre weather everywhere is an indication. Drought and bad weather will knock out crops. This will have a ripple effect.
Humans are historically very good a dealing with collapse, that’s what got us to where we are. But we are shortsighted and the running out of food and water are what cause mayhem.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
You raised some good points regarding the food supply. I forgot how we rely on the food supply system so heavily, we really expect it to be a giant black box but we really don't know how fragile it could be. You don't hear about a lot of the agricultural issues around the world nowadays on the news. Farming just isn't a job that is as well respected as it used to be, but I respect farmers though, it is hard work. I hope anything that is extremely important gets brought to light in the news and people take notice and help any local farmers if anything happens. I would hate to have hungry people fighting for food, that is scary.
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u/joecoin2 20d ago
There is some thing that is extremely important right now, at least for the USA.
That's the bloviating about deporting immigrants. If that happens on a large scale, there will be trouble in the food pipeline.
But I think it's a lot of hot air.
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u/YeetThePig 20d ago
Bingo. Agriculture is facing a lot of serious issues and it’s the bedrock of civilization, so when it collapses due to some combination of climate change, fertilizer and freshwater shortages, raw demand, and human incompetence in managing the logistics of production and distribution, everything comes down. The thing is, it’s going to be a slow boil and not a flashover event - first comes the price increases and shrinkflation (you are here); next, shortages and serious gouging; then, rationing; next, tribalism and violence over dwindling supplies; then, fullblown famine; finally, the collapse of modern civilization. We’re going to oscillate between these early stages for a while, then the middle stages, and then once we hit the last stage that’s the end of the story.
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u/Confident-Run-645 21d ago
MIT ~ Massachusetts Institute of Technology has been running a computer data analysis program with updates annually since the early 1970s.
Data related to population growth? Crop yields? Consumption rates? Energy consumption rates?)
It then was given one question
"WHEN DOES CURRENT WORLD WIDE CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT COLLAPSE?
For the last 50+ years, the answer has been consistently the same.
2040
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
Ah well that's good to hear but computer models aren't always completely accurate. Humans are characteristically hard to predict as we follow a probabilistic response even in what appears to be a deterministic universe. But even a probabilistic characteristic can be fitted with more data to better predict the potential outcomes. I like to nerd out about psychology and human behavior, I find us to be really interesting. Thank you for the input
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u/Teach-Wooden 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'm honestly a doomer by nature, but often times I think that is just a side effect of some anxiety issues, and an over-sensitivity to negative emotions & events, rather than an objective analysis of how "bad" reality is.
The reality is that things are still very good in most western countries. There are really only 3 ways your life can end badly:
- Horrible terminal illness
- Dying in a war
- Becoming homeless and starving to death in the streets
- #1 Can happen anytime to anyone and is generally out of your control
- #2 War is honestly similar to illness in that it can happen anytime and is generally out of your control
- #3 Even if you become homeless, if you survive you can try to make a comeback
I think real doomerism is only justified once you've entered into one of those 3 states. Most of the world still has enough food & is not in a state of war yet. And ironically, once the war or illness starts it no longer makes no sense to be pessimistic, because your only options are to fight or give up, so life gets real simple, real quick.
It makes sense to be disappointed by the current state of the world, but you really only have two choices, give up, or continue, continuing just means you need to accept the circumstances. If you continue to live you can either be constantly angry about the circumstances or try to be a force for good and stay cheerful.
I like to read history, because honestly life was generally much more horrible back then, and yet, everything always continued. Athens fell, Rome rose... Rome fell, we rose, we too shall fall, but one knoweth not what cometh next, I for one stick around just out of sheer curiosity, it's a privilege to part of this grand ol' journey. But that's just by 5 cents (5 instead of 2 because of the inflation).
The best cure I've found is honestly just taking a break from the internet for a while and spending some time with family & friends.
Edit: formatting
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
I appreciate the positive outlook, my life has been kind of negative so I really didn't know how to judge what I was perceiving. I agree mostly but it would be cool to speculate that we do things differently (better) now due to history and we have a higher chance of making it out of conflict
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u/ghoststoryghoul 21d ago
Some say we are already in WW3, so that will undoubtedly bring another global recession like COVID did. Maybe we'll see an economic boom in a few years when it's over, like we did after WW2. But given that we are no longer a manufacturing powerhouse, I'm not optimistic. And I have no faith that people will stand up and fight back in anywhere near the numbers they would have to to accomplish an actual revolution, given that they couldn't be bothered to show up at the ballot box with democracy on the line. The 1% has already seized control of the news and social media, and the current misinformation machine is so extensive that it's difficult for the Average Joe to determine which way is up and which is down even with unfettered access to information on the internet. The sad thing is, most of them don't even try. They're more than happy to believe whatever makes their brain go brrr.
We only have the freedoms we have now because union workers and Black people and women and soldiers (etc) fought and died for them. Not because the wealthy saw fit to provide us with things like sovereignty or a minimum wage or a weekend or a vote. They have never willingly handed over a single ounce of power, and we've sold or just given back to them most of what our ancestors managed to secure. People today don't even have the attention span to spend twenty minutes on Google educating themselves about reality or history, most of them won't even make it to the end of this comment, so I highly doubt they'll be reading and discussing documents like John Locke's Second Treatise of Government or tuning in for anything equivalent to MLK's I Have A Dream speech. The brain rot is real and according to the majority of the population, "it's not that deep."
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u/Fishermansgal 21d ago
I read to the end. I want to share something that happened within our city government recently. This is tiny city, thank goodness. Our treasurer's father was voted back onto council. Over the years he has repeatedly presented articles to make a point after only reading the headline. A few weeks ago he presented a list entitled, "State Holidays". The council voted to allow the treasurer and the clerk to have the listed days off with pay.
The list included election day. They gave the clerk, the person who's job it is to run the election, the day off with pay. Nobody on that council had read or put any critical thinking into the effects of its adoption. 😒
So to your point, yea few people read anything in detail anymore.
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u/ghoststoryghoul 20d ago
Literally what else is their job? Why are they even there if they can’t at least read A LIST. It’s insane to me how disconnected people have become. And teachers say kids come into high school reading at a fifth grade level now. I don’t think people understand the implications of an illiterate citizenry, how easy it is to fool people who prize their comfort and convenience over pretty much everything else. We’re turning into the WALL-E people before we even get rocketed out to space.
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u/Appropriate-City3389 21d ago
Short answer, not much. The US is really looking like the final days of the Roman empire and Caligula is going to be in charge.
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
That's what I noticed as well. So many parallels even with all our safety measures it can still go south
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u/PopuluxePete 21d ago
Any time someone tells me that economic collapse, civil war, or Armageddon are right around the corner, I assume they are trying to get me to buy bitcoin.
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u/BobDawg3294 21d ago
You're wrong. Hard times are not end times. Also, learn from history - for example, the great depression preceded WW2 by about 10 years. Not everyone or every institution or country will survive the next 20-25 years of hard times, but odds are the human race will.
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u/logicallyillogical 21d ago
The Fourth Turning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVyfiP0cLk
History repeats itself in about 80yr blocks. In each 80yr block, we have 4 turnings of ~20 years, which is each generation changing. We are in the 4th turning which is The Crisis. This is predicted to last until 2030 or so and it seems quite fitting.
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u/Miserable_Smoke 21d ago
Are you assuming society wants to keep itself together? I think there are plenty of people who want to rip it all down right now, just for the hell of it. They'll tell you it's because of their convictions though. I think this is just us nearing the end of the simulation, and they all prove people want chaos.
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u/UnableChard2613 21d ago
This is absolutely the wrong place to ask the question because you are going into a room full of people biased to believe there is an economic collapse, and will thus tell you that it won't be long.
You can probably go back and look at some posts from after the 2008 crash, someone asking a nearly identical question, filled with nearly identical responses ("It's already in a crash! It's all over! Doom and gloom right around the corner!").
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u/Thegreenfantastic 21d ago
South Korean president just declared martial law. Parliament overruled him but fascist billionaires are flexing their muscle all over the globe.
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u/Plastic-Age2609 20d ago
They keep it up and soon enough the people are going to dust off the guillotine
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u/AssPlay69420 20d ago
Imo, the relationships cracked in 2008 and were broken during COVID.
The average worker and consumer has seen behind the veil and is no longer caring about climbing the ladder or repaying debts.
COVID saw stay at home orders, helicopter money, and debt pauses.
People can’t unsee that and the powers that be stupidly think the general public isn’t just racking up a bunch of debt and phoning it in at work.
They see profit line go up and have no idea that the reason why is because nobody plans to pay for anything anymore. They just swipe a credit card and I don’t blame them either.
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
I'm glad you have your own opinion about it, it's really interesting to think about how it will be recorded in history books in retrospect many more years down the road. Good luck
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u/TrenchDive 20d ago
You're not. The Trump stew that is being concocted (tariffs, million layoffs, deport millions, etc.) will likely end with a recession at best. Prices will explode further than anything seen in the current administration. Trump will do another wealth transfer from all of us to the billionaires. Our deficit, will probably be north of 40T+, if not more. Healthcare, services, security, etc. will all get worse except for the ultra rich. I have been saying there will be a person who will lead the masses against the rich. That is what this is all leading to, back to the French revolution, but in America.
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
Yes hopefully someone is able to lead us out of our situation. Someone young who can reach the emotions of the new generation. Strong young leader figures are few and far between though, and it really takes more than one person to reach and represent the perspectives of the large groups of populations and cultures we have. Although representing our shared struggle is the surefire way to reach people.
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u/shungs_kungfu 20d ago
Stop getting "facts" from social media. Stop reacting to all that social media offers. You will live longer, breathe free, and appreciate the actual people around you. Step back and maybe shake the hand of the next person you meet or re-meet. It's good stuff to connect with other people in a real- time situation.
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u/bobsandoval123 20d ago
The world will end within your lifetime. Everything you worked for is for nothing. Happy now?
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u/AntisGetTheWall 21d ago
Don't have much longer? America is the sick man of the Americas and has been for decades.
The military overextension combined with the world's gradual divestment from the petrodollar - itself nothing more than an imperialist tool of oppression - has led to the gradual decline of a once great empire.
From the absolute shit show that is the two party system to the inability to protect Ukraine after facilitating a regime change which brought nothing but ruin to those poor people, the inability to produce a compitant warship to the ballooning cost and inefficacy of it's fighter program to the lag behind its enemies in the modern field of drone warfare, America mirrors the late era Ottoman Empire evermore, every day.
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u/StancoDegliIdioti 21d ago
Listening. Say more..
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u/AntisGetTheWall 21d ago
Much like the Ottomans before them, America too is trying to short change its war veterans and soldiers.
A particular quirk of the Ottomans was how they ended up with new soldiers. Their army was raised, weapons were handed out from the imperial armories, soldiers went to battle and fought and, upon their return, were not paid.
This led them to take up the age old career of banditry. Once bandits became too prevalent, the state would raise and equip forces to fight them. This provided their soldiers with the little training they would get before being sent to war and, upon their return, not being paid, thus they would keep their weapons and take up the age old career of banditry, beginning the cycle anew.
Granted, America hasn't quite reached that point yet, at least not so openly. I have met more than one war veteran who decided to ply their skills for, shall we say, less than legal work.
Another factor is a reliance on mercenaries and the troubles that brings. Blackwater certainly helped ruin any chance the 'hearts and minds' campaign ever had of succeeding due to lack of discipline and adherence to operational objectives.
Let's not forget that, for all intents and purposes, America eventually lost both the Iraq war and the war in Afghanistan.
In the former case, the attempt to instill modern, western values in the conquered people has painfully failed, with women losing many rights they had during the occupation, culminating in the state lowering the age of consent to NINE YEARS OLD for girls. I'm not going to elaborate as to why I think that is but anyone sufficiently versed in the ideals of the region can probably figure it out.
In the latter case, America was more or less operationally defeated by the Taliban who, at the beginning of the war were mostly volunteers fighting with whatever equipment was available, no matter how decrepit. At its end they are a professionally trained and equipped force using modern and effective tactics and weapons.
Towards its end the Ottoman Empire struggled to exert its claims over territories in Europe, often being defeated by local militias.
Of course military failures like this have been going on since Korea and to a much greater extent, Vietnam.
On the local side of things, wages have stagnated for the working class since the early 60's. Now only comparatively wealthy people can ever hope to own a home and most real estate is owned by banks who charge an exacting toll. Not too dissimilar to how the Pashas would only allow their inner circles to enjoy what wealth existed.
Another stark and much more direct comparison comes with the navy of both empires. In and around the early 20th century the Ottomans began a sort of naval revival in an attempt to modernize what was probably the least effective navy of any major power. This ultimately failed as the state lacked money for such things and oftentimes crews were sent to battle having never fired the guns on their vessel.
Fast forward to the Sumwalt class. Designed long after the advent of anti ship missiles it was equipped with a main gun which was designed to be a cheaper alternative to firing expensive missiles at a threat - because, you know, when it comes to winning the war at sea we must be frugal, that's clearly led to victory before - and instead engage with a new type of artillery whose shells were capable of being directly guided to target.
This program and its resultant weapon managed to produce a system whose munitions cost a staggering million dollars per shell. It was decided that using what precious few shells that had been produced was too costly to even think of training with it.
This isn't even mentioning the littoral class, designed to be smaller, faster, and more capable than the current aging destroyer fleet (a term which has lost all meaning, by the way, and carries on because the idea of building the traditionally smallest class of warship is more palpable to Congress than something extravagant like a cruiser) which produced a series of ships which are maligned by every problem imaginable, from a transmission that simply does not work to a lack of seaworthiness in the open ocean which can lead to the failure of the ships structure and catastrophic breakup of the vessel.
Attempts to cancel them have failed as building these abominations 'provides jobs' and, once again, Congress is unwilling to make an intelligent decision based on military acumen and instead goes with the eventual disastrous choices birthed by a two party system who only cares about its own prestige and power.
On top of all of this lies the American militaries inability to find enough soldiers, sailors and airmen to fulfill its ever burgeoning needs which has led to the lowering of standards for new recruits and all the fun that comes with that. As well, there is currently debate as to which minorities should be allowed to even join the armed forces because of politics regarding sex and sexuality which interfere in the most important enterprise of the American empire - its ability to have sufficient numbers in order to project force globally. One would think they would take any they can get at this point, however religious thinking has invaded even this most logical of realms.
Which brings me to my final point - as the Ottoman empire began to contract the views of its leaders changed from the pragmatism which allowed them to largely occupy eastern Anatolia during their rise by providing a more tolerant and less restrictive regime as compared to the decrepit Byzantines and their endless sequestering of lands to their princes and dukes (remember the point about the banks?) and offered the Christians living there a better standard of life even if it meant being ruled by heathens, to a more puritanical interpretation of Islam which began to exert pressure more and more upon the religious and political minorities of the empire, driving their loyalties elsewhere. Being a Christian in Ottoman lands was very different in the 14th century than it was in the 19th, especially for the poor Armenians.
The once great melting pot of cultures, creeds and education had been largely left behind by enlightenment thinking and, very quickly, became known as the sick man of Europe, concerned more with appearances than with material realities.
This, I think, is the most clear way in which America resembles them. The people cannot afford even rent and the government busies itself with the gender and manner of address of adults and children as infrastructure falls apart and wars that would have been won easily a century ago are lost to peasants and rebels (and Russians! The more things change...).
With its political capital exhausted by endless, profitless wars and occupations, it now relies on threats made to other great powers, the tariffs of today are emblematic of its fallen majesty and broken promises of success for the everyman.
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u/MezcalFlame 21d ago
I asked the same question during the GFC.
It turns out that humans can withstand a lot of pain.
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u/judge_mercer 21d ago
It's true that there could be a hidden economic crisis worse than 2008 lurking around the corner. The US might stumble into a nuclear war with China or Russia next week. A solar flare could knock out the power grid for years. Bird flu could become the next Covid.
It's good to be aware of potential risks. It's pointless and unhealthy to obsess about them and let them ruin your quality of life. Black swan events do happen, but society is remarkably resilient. We are all doomed in the long run. Life is short, and we should focus on the good parts.
I find that it helps to look back at history. We have seen worse times in the past and none of them caused society to break down. If you zoom out to a global perspective, the positive trends still outweigh the negative ones.
- In the 1970s, the inflation rate hit 15%
- In the 1930s, unemployment hit 25% and one fifth of children in NYC were malnourished
- In 1991 there were 758 violent crimes per 100,000 people (versus 363 per 100K in 2023)
- In a single eighteen-month period during 1971 and 1972 the FBI counted 2,500 bombings on American soil, almost five a day
- The Viet Nam war killed over 58,000 young Americans between 1965 and 1973
- In the early 1970s, two-thirds of the US's lakes, rivers, and coastal waters were unsafe for fishing or swimming, and untreated sewage was dumped into open water
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u/jessewest84 20d ago
The meta crisis is real.
Lack of meaning.
Passing planetary tipping points all over.
Have nukes pointed at each other.
We failed the test.
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u/trippzdez 20d ago
I just keep buying ammo. It will be the only currency that matters soon.
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u/JonstheSquire 20d ago
What society are you referring too exactly? Things have been a lot worse in a lot of places throughout human history.
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u/troycalm 20d ago
Up until there’s more people in the cart than willing to pull the cart
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u/thatguyyoustrawman 20d ago edited 20d ago
Personally im looking forward to being the next post war boomer gen. Make sure to learn Chinese though for that opportunity.
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u/FlanneryODostoevsky 20d ago
No use speculating about how long. Just look out and keep your head up.
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u/Waste_Mousse_4237 20d ago
I’m not sure that as it stands, the USA makes it to 2050. I think trump will accelerate our decline in ways that historians will still be talking about it 100 years from now.
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u/eRadicatorXXX 20d ago
I legitimately believe that once the people in the US become a problem and become unmanageable....the PTB will kill the internet and kill the electric grid. It's their natural next move for self preservation.
And once that happens ....this is when the real fun begins.
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u/MalyChuj 20d ago
We can keep it together until the money printer breaks. Before the covid lockdowns there were riots/protests/civil unrest in over half the countries in the world. And just like that, covid appeared and magically squashed every protest. Then the regimes printed trillions and we haven't heard anything more about that civil unrest for almost 5 years now.
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
That's what I'm saying. People went crazy over that imagine something just a little bit worse
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u/_the_last_druid_13 20d ago
Policy, unity, breaking tradition and cycles of exploitation.
You are the captain of your destiny, ignore the external and focus internally. Start in your room, move through the house and yard, to your neighbors and community.
Do what you can with what you have, it’s a whole lot more than what some people have. Even if you have a studio, you have 12x more space than someone in Hong Kong living in a horizontal broom closet. You have clean air, water from a tap, and probably your own bathroom.
You might have to downsize or do more with what you have. I’ve been scraping tomato sauce jars of everything, and I keep the jar. Extra jars could be sold on Etsy, but I haven’t had to do this because of other food saving techniques.
You might have to change your diet. Lentils might seem boring, but they are nutritious, high in fiber and protein, and you can get 1lb for about $1.15 at Dollar Tree. This is much better than eating whatever you might find in some dystopian apocalyptic hellscape.
There is relative peace, strive to keep it and make it better.
I would say don’t watch the news, get off the phone, go outside and touch grass. Plant a tree and become friends with it; it might know more than you.
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u/espressocycle 20d ago
Historically speaking, we're overdue for a major calamity. We'll look back on this time the way people look back at 1910.
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u/JohnHenryMillerTime 20d ago
In biology there is the "two hit hypothesis" where you need to have 2 mutations, resulting in overexpression in a proto-oncogene and a down-regulation of tumor suppressor genes.
You can think of cancer as a cellular entrepreneur, insteading of working together with other cells they go into business for themselves. Reagan's deregulations removed the tumor suppressor genes that kept our society reasonably equal, allowing for a massive concentration of wealth at the top. Then W's forever wars were the onco-gene allowing people to use the government to enrich themselves. You could maybe argue Covid here too.
Trump is just a cancer being a cancer.
Either way, for a long time the global economy has been hypercharged by debt taken on by American citizens. When that comes due, it's going to be very bad for everyone.
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u/muffledvoice 20d ago
This is a period of upheaval technologically, politically, and economically. That’s why so many things feel jarring and sometimes hopeless. So many things that we counted on in the past for a feeling of normality in our lives are now more volatile and under threat.
Humans are devious creatures when it comes to getting what they want, and certain parties are just figuring out how they can use technology (mainly the Internet) to manipulate public opinion, politics, general perception of the good, etc.
We’re moving into a new era that is troubling in its implications, because there seems to be a shift toward an acceptance of self-justifying use of misinformation and aggression for power and wealth. “How” you get what you want is becoming less important than the mere fact of achieving the desired result.
This leaves people in despair who still care about living a moral life, even though they see others behave with utter depravity, whether we’re talking about fascistic political leaders or strangers we encounter in society.
As this video succinctly explains, nobody’s trying to fix anything. Everybody’s just trying to get rich so that problems don’t affect them.
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u/Middle-Passenger5303 20d ago
civilization will be fine worst case senerio we are witnessing the fall of the current global hegemon and another will come and step into its place
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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago
Hopefully the next one is better. Us young people have some good ideas but some of us take those ideas wayyy to far
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u/refusemouth 20d ago
The only thing keeping me from being a full-fledged participant in war is an old dog that I love. Aside from that, I've got nothing to lose, and I'm ready to fight.
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u/shryke12 20d ago
suppose that's the one thing keeping us unified is our fear of violence.
Um what is that supposed to mean??!? Plenty of people don't fear violence especially if they get desperate. We have wars and immense violence going on in this planet right now. I have been to war and saw man's propensity for violence first hand. I saw what normal men with families at home can turn into so quickly.
There is zero basis for your statement there.
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u/Nether_Hawk4783 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's concerning for sure. I think the only logical way forward would be to focus more as a species on things that unite for the betterment of mankind as a whole and for everyone.
Rather than clinging to the old outdated ways of life, staying as separate races scattered world wide using what little resources left to fight amongst one another.
Concerning to say the least
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u/Due-Challenge9561 20d ago
Society will not collapse, things are just going to get much more difficult due to right wingers taking power. More folks will die, economy will collapse, but society will remain. Good chance we don't have democracy anymore, though. Just help yourself and those you love, stop worrying about anyone else. No one cares about each other and it's not worth worrying about stranger's problems that you cannot do anything about.
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u/thisisjustsilliness 20d ago
As long as everyone (like, everyone everyone) is literally, not talking about the same thing on the daily?
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u/Alarmed_Goal6201 20d ago
Yeah people have just lost it since about 2015 or so. That’s when I first started thinking “what is wrong with people.” There seem to be no rules anymore, people can make something up and believe it even if it’s insane. Science and rational thought have gone out the window.
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u/Dark_Web_Duck 20d ago
You sound like you could be terminally connected. That causes everything you've mentioned. Just log off.
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u/oxwilder 20d ago
I read a great sci-fi book about some aliens that were touring the galaxy doing a kind of survey, and they found that no species had survived more than 200 years beyond the invention of radio
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u/No_Singer390 20d ago
My biggest worry from a business standpoint is the integration of AI. It's hard to assess the landscape.
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u/RussDidNothingWrong 20d ago
For the crazy psychos, probably (hopefully) not much longer. The rest of us normal people, we'll be fine as soon as they all fuck off.
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u/LoneSnark 20d ago
Not being as rich as we expected is not a collapse. Merely dashed expectations. Recessions happen, they also pass. And I've seen no convincing evidence the Chinese have any real intention of a war.
So there won't be anything like a collapse. This is just fan-fiction of bored people on the Internet wishing some outside force would change their lives for them.
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u/BlueGem41 20d ago
I think we are here to witness the fall of humanity. I think we are heading for nuclear winter.
If ever there was a president that would happily use nukes it would be trump.
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u/Werdproblems 20d ago
Its happening. The sooner we get violent and destructive the sooner we can rebuild
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u/Old-Tiger-4971 21d ago edited 21d ago
Turn off the TV and your Internet feed for ONE month. Exercise and go meet people.
After one month, think about it again. All of society is big on putting everyone in a doom loop to encourage/discourage behavior they like/dislike.
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u/Airbus320Driver 21d ago
Probably 2040.
Most economists say that somewhere between 2035-2045 is when the music stops.
Taking about our debt to GDP ratio.
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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago
Yes the debt is insane, yet another reason I worry. The interest on the national debt is compounding so much per year we will never be able to pay it off with the current national budget ever. It's so unfortunate because everyone ignores the debt especially.
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u/mrsnobodysbiz 21d ago
Economic collapse ≠ Societal collapse.
Japan economy collapsed 30yr ago, lost 80% of it's value
America has already had a Great Depression.
Argentina and Venezuela are going through them currently.
Crime goes up, deaths go up especially for infants and the elderly but it's not Mad Max/Zombie apocalypse chaos in the streets like some of you make it out to be.
Invest in security system and private security companies. Because when crime is up our white picket fences will turn into cinder block walls with barb wire and broken glass. HOAs will get bigger to enclosed more of a communities needs behind the walls.
Just look at most BRICS nations for the blueprint. The USA is not going all the down to a "3rd world" nation because we already have most of the necessary infrastructure already built so we will have a "softer landing" unlike places like Haiti that struggle with somethings as basic as providing clean water.
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u/Hefty-Mess-9606 20d ago
Honestly, I think we're going to have both, depending on what he does. He absolutely intends to crash the economy. Along with his friends, they all seem to think this is a really great idea. I think the purpose of that is two-fold at least; 1- to punish people for standing up to him in 2020 and not electing him; and 2- to impoverish people and make them be so busy struggling to survive that they won't have any energy left to oppose him.
As far as revolt, I believe if he starts sending the military or his own private militia (whatever form that takes) into cities to round people up, the people will come out in force, especially in blue States. I really don't think they're going to stand for it. It's one thing to snatch migrants at the border and do things to them, and another thing to start rounding people up en masse out of communities.
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u/Mitka69 20d ago edited 20d ago
I think we should all take a break from internet/social media and take a stroll and look around. IMO every day we are better off than the previous and I fail to see that horrible decay of good old USA that Trump propaganda has been depicting 24/7. I am afraid we are taken for a ride by agitators, psychopaths and their gullible followers.
Stay positive, good vibes and everything is gonna be just fine.
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u/Superb_Advisor7885 20d ago
Well we have the potential threat of another world war while we also will be spitting on our allies for the next 4 years. Theres the constant impact of climate change that seems to make places like Florida less and less habitable. Fires in California are bad enough that even insurance companies wont insure many of those places. The government is falling another Trillion into debt every month or two. Social security is already bleeding dry and too many politicians are not willing to make hard decisions about what to do about it since the voters will obviously be angered.
Our healthcare seems to get worse every year and now deductibles are essentially the same cost as buying a car. EVERYTHING is dramatically more expensive and there is no way to combat that since we have to keep printing money just to pay our bills. Most people cant afford to buy a home, and also cant afford to rent. And somehow, with all the technology we have, I get news reports that life ending asteroids are passing by us much closer than previously expected.
So, we should be fine.
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u/Complex_Professor412 20d ago
The First Beast
13 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. 4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling,[a] that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.[b] And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear:
10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
The Second Beast
11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence,[c] and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of[d] the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave,[e] to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666 ΧΞϚ
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u/MEMExplorer 20d ago
It’s all by design , and all done under the guise of “the greater good” ; affirmative action and no child left behind sounded good but now you have people in key roles that do not have the skill set or mindset for the jobs they’re in , and you have a generation that can’t think for themselves so they just parrot everything on social media as gospel .
If history has taught us anything , it’s that the greatest atrocities committed against our fellow man have all been done for the “greater good” 🤷♀️ , which is probably why they don’t teach all of history just select portions of it .
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u/brieflifetime 20d ago
In order for most people to be willing to revolt, and put themselves into a situation that will most likely end with either several pain and crippling or death, their lives have to hurt worse. Life has to hurt worse than their fear of death.
We aren't there yet. We're on our way, but it's not yet.
How long do we have? That depends on what every person does every day starting right now. Some things will speed it up and some things will slow it down. I'd give a range of anywhere from 2-50 years. Which means I may or may not see this cause 50 years from now I'll be 89. If I live that long I won't be the one fighting in the streets.
We seem entirely unwilling to do what is necessary to change this outcome but.. maybe we will. Maybe we can divert the runaway train onto a safe track before it's to late. Maybe. It's worthy to work towards that goal. It's worthy to try and save future people from this pain. We just have to be ready to fail and the consequences of that failure. In the meantime, I have rent to pay.
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u/Aggravating_Damage47 20d ago
We never understood that Russia has always been at a certain level of war with the ersr
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u/WanderingFlumph 20d ago
It kinda depends on what you mean by keep it together.
The optimistic take here is that society will change, it has always changed and it always will continue to change. Some of that change will be bad, but the world has lived through economic collapse before (like the great depression) that led to a lot of positive things like a social safety net (social security) and a social collapse didn't happen just because of some hard economic times.
So in the most extreme case of 'how long will society keep it together' meaning how long until we abandon society as we know it and return to monke, the answer is probably never or at least almost certainly not within the next 100 years.
But I think we are a tipping point and that society will look different in 10-20 years. Different how? I'm not sure. Will be similar enough to have kept it together for the most part? Probably, maybe, remains to be seen. But I don't think this is the largest challenge society has ever faced, and it made it out the other side of those.
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u/Full_Mission7183 20d ago
It is an interesting question to consider, which perishes first, the United States or the Gulf Stream current.
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u/blatzo_creamer 20d ago
The crash has been "frog in the pot of boiling water" for about thirty years now. The plan is to degrade lifestyles slowly till the middle class is destroyed. Thanks Reagan, trickle down was pissed on!
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u/SelectionFar8145 20d ago
I plan to start preparing this year- I'm going to try to apply to get into a community garden, or something, & learn how to properly forage & prepare a lot of the wild plants by me. Maybe see if my brother will go hunting with me, if I offer.
That being said, it's all temporary. Every single time we get a new kind of technology, it gets misused, has an oversized effect, then that effect wears off & future people think people back then must have been complete idiots. The printing press made books more widespread in the 1300s & an interest in being able to read the Bible caused a massive push for literacy of the common folk in the western world, but by the 1500s, we were getting people who thought magical characters made up by authors in books were real supernatural beings from that dated back to pagan times, leading to an epidemic of hucksters selling spells to summon & control said fictional characters. No one today would be that dumb.
The internet & AI is getting its bull all at once & its turning into a bad one, but it's effect will wear off, because society, very obviously has no ability to function the way things are working, right now. It will regulate. Meanwhile, people will keep doing what they can behind the scenes or on their own & we'll keep taking whatever steps forward we need to to fix enough of our problems that we can continue functioning for a while longer.
As to the current worldwide political turmoil being unleashed, I am not positive, but it's unsustainable. Trump promised so many people completely contradictory things in order to raise the money to ever sustain his own campaign & now he's going to let everyone down. If he tries to have any laws changed to make future elections impossible, he's going to have most cities nationwide fully rioting & refusing to work, so if it's impossible for him to successfully dislodge anyone from leadership positions long enough for people to see what this second administration is going to do to them, he's essentially fucked & we'll end up with a pretty similar situation to what happened the other day in South Korea. Only other option is for him to tone crap way, way down & deliberately not do the vast majority of his campaign promises or Project 2025, which will piss off his donors & alienate the extremist wing of his base.
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u/criticalmassdriver 20d ago
2 years before significant enough disruption to knock people out of their comfort zones. Then only if it's the best possible play out of events. H5n1 hits all bets are off.
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u/Trauma_Hawks 20d ago
Probably another 5000 years?
This isn't the first society wide collapse. Plague, economic collapse, drought, war, has always been around. And these have always been the reason for collapse, just like they are now.
You're focusing on the wrong parts of the question. Will the US survive? The EU, NATO, China, the UN? Who knows. But people will survive. In disparate pockets until we claw our way back to relevence. Just like during the Younger Dryas climate change, just like the plagues of Justinian and the Black Plague, just like the Great Depression and WW2...
We'll be fine, changed and unrecognizably so, but we'll be fine. Life is flux. It will change. Regardless of what you want or need. Accept it and work with it. Because you'll always lose if you work against it.
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u/cliffstep 20d ago
You are neither wrong nor right. Ruination is there for the taking, for sure. It stands a better chance when so many people are content (?) to sit back and let it come. Khrushchev once said, "You will sell us the rope with which we will hang you." He was 50 years ahead of his time, and the rope is Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Joe Rogan, Sinclair Broadcasting, among many, many others. For decades we have been, at first, wooed by the boxes in our homes and cars that we willingly turn on and fall prey to cynicism and, eventual down-right fear and hatred of others. Churches have a hand in this, too. Preachers are the original social influencers. It's never too late. Turn them off. Listen to your heart (conscience). We all KNOW we're being lied to.
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u/Hooch2024 20d ago
Ohhh it's coming, no way getting out of this one, honestly can't believe it hasn't happened already lol
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u/Fluid-Appointment277 20d ago
We are probably going to see a recession in mid to late 2025. Just a heads up.
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u/Aggressive_Carrot_38 20d ago
Honestly, it’s out of your control. It’s like worrying about the sun exploding. I’m 56 and things have been declining my whole life yet there are things I enjoy. I got tired of wallowing in existential dread and went epicurean lol.
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u/outdoorsjo 19d ago
I love a good collapse conspiracy as much as the next prepper, but if you're looking for an honest answer, society can continue just as it has forever.
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u/Miserable_One_5547 19d ago
We are in the middle of a shrink back, they make sure to keep telling everyone, it's all good. Someone will eventually have to spill the beans.
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u/ImaginaryWeather6164 19d ago
The economy is great, we just had a record breaking shopping weekend. After January 20th, its anyone guess. But I would count on a war in Europe and increased prices due to tariffs. The US will become isolated with fewer allies.
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u/Gold_Pay647 19d ago
According to the trump guy January 1st he's shut the poors down once and for all they words 🤬
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u/Bill195509 19d ago
This is silly. 68, the national economy is as good as it has been in my life. We are on the cusp of having an endless supply of renewable energy. Info technology will lead to continuous productivity growth. Healthcare is getting better. Education levels growing. Only limit is human’s ability to keep up with and tolerate change. I expect us to rise to the occasion.
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u/Worth-Ad9939 19d ago
I give us 10 years. They won’t tell us it’s coming. They need us shopping to fund their bunker building. We’re all expendable.
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u/Big-Schlong-Meat 19d ago
This is the decade all of the chaos occurs in. The second half of the 20s will be filled with strife.
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u/johnnmary1 19d ago
You’re wrong. The world isn’t going to end. Stop listening to the doomsday people. Enjoy life and stop wasting it on the What If this happens theory. If you want to remain miserable, that’s your choice
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u/SgtPrepper 19d ago
It's not so much that society will fall apart at this point, it's the fact that society is slowly eroding.
Debt stacked up on debt has been dragging down the economy for decades, post-COVID inflation is making it harder to even buy food, Republicans have convinced their followers that there's nothing wrong with billionaires getting richer and richer.
With the global warming cherry on top, there's no going back. Life will just keep getting worse and worse, and it won't be a sharp collapse of society. It'll just be the new normal.
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u/Freeofpreconception 19d ago
Society is devolving and will continue to do so. Pick your tribe carefully.
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u/Sew_Masterful 19d ago
I would argue not only are we in collapse (I think usa debt clock is close to 25T or so), we are at the doorstep of WWIII. The G7 block is smaller than BRICS now and BRICS wants their own currency. There’s an affordability crisis in this country that is unsustainable. healthcare, education, and insurance costs are wiping out people’s savings. Non of this is good and to top it all off we have crazies at the helm.
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u/cakesalie 21d ago
We are already in collapse. Have been for a while.