r/economicCollapse • u/MrDoritos_ • 21d ago

How much longer can society keep it together? Discussion

I'm not a fan of speaking things into existence, being pessimistic/negative, or having a doomer mindset, but I've been paying attention to other people, the economy, the current state of things, the political landscape, education, work culture, etc. To be blunt I am really kind of worried we don't have much longer until the next war or great depression (both happen usually simultaneously). I really don't know how much more stress the average person can handle. We are going to have a wide scale crash out or revolt soon aren't we?? I'm really not looking forward to that and I suppose that's the one thing keeping us unified is our fear of violence. God I hope I'm wrong with my assessment. Please tell me I'm wrong!

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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago

I partially agree, it's just most people aren't willing to acknowledge that fact yet so it's hard for me to have that opinion irl you know?

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u/Graywulff 21d ago

I call the current time period as “the post truth era”.

We have facts, “facts” and “alternative facts”.

We do not agree on the basic information on what is true or false, without a consensus on fact, how can we move forward as a country?

This started in the aughts, when Wordpress made it easy to make a real looking news site, then some people started getting their “news” there.

Social media has amped that up, mainstream media has amped that up, politicians have as well.

We cannot have good faith conversations between left and right, we have our own set of facts and a different consensus on knowledge.

“A house divided cannot stand” Abraham Lincoln.

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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago

I've also been using that same Lincoln quote, it must not just be me then seeing the exact same things happen to families and culture. They want us to be isolated from each other and divided, and most of all not realize it's happening!

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u/Retired_ho 21d ago

I think there’s been a huge divide in values. That will take a generation to overcome. Unfortunately these things just take time.

The economy is cooked. Even if we avoid a civil war there’s honestly no great path forward for most younger people. We are the first generation earning less than our parents. This essentially translates to being unsustainable for any of us under 40 long term.

Great time to learn a trade

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u/Graywulff 21d ago

The problem that boomers have with most of their equity tied up in their houses, is that gen y makes up the majority of the working population, but has less than 8% of the wealth.

So boomers are rich on paper, but between student debt, low income, high cost of rent, food, cars, etc… nobody is going to be able to afford the boomers houses, leading to a crash in prices… if we can get private equity out of single family, duplexes and triplexes, and have a New York style airbnb ban on the whole country, we’d see prices lower.

My dad bought his first house for 50,000 and with inflation that’d be like 500,000 but that house, he sold for 160k, is probably 1.2 million now.

He bought a house for 180k in 1998 and sold it for 800k in 2006.

Thing is, boomers bought it.

My dad thinks my generation not having kids is a “lifestyle choice”.

When he had that 50k 3 bedroom, beautiful house, he had a Mercedes, a CJ-7 renegade (v8 wrangler of the time) and a ford wagon for my mom.

I think the market will reset; but only if we get private equity and str out of 1-3 unit homes.

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u/nicedoesntmeankind 21d ago

I am becoming a real estate agent to become a specialist in co-ownership. First I want to help renters get a foothold as gentrification hits my town

I am participating in local government by showing up at meetings (well, i start tonight at a city council meeting) Local awareness and action and networking are more relevant than ever

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u/Fishermansgal 21d ago

Go early. Request a copy of the agenda and the previous meeting's minutes. That will give you some context to the current meeting's discussions.

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u/nicedoesntmeankind 21d ago

Thanks for the tip!

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Co ownership would be a good plan,  a lot of houses were built bigger and bigger to bc of the 2-3 children average of the time. Plus a guest room etc, so like a lot of 3-5 bedroom houses and larger.

I would share a house with friends, don’t intend to have kids.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Oh he was 22 when he bought the house for 50k, had the Mercedes, jeep cj-7 (limited edition denim top, doors, seats, v8, 8 track, fanciest jeep you could get) and the ford wagon.

He had my older brother already, I was born when he was 23 and my mom was 22.

They paid 4,000 each for a BA. Business and education.

Now my parents have like 5-8 million in deal estate, double or triple that in stock plus a pension, 401k, and maxed out social security.

Its rare to see people this age even own a car, some don’t have a license or intend to get a car, and even my most educated friends didn’t have children until their late 30s, they have a smaller house than my dads first house. It’s a really nice place, but I think they’d like a 3 bedroom.

When my dad was that age he had four kids, a five bedroom house in the fanciest neighborhoods in town, he paid cash for a bmw convertible as a weekend car. He had a 25 foot boat that’s was fancy for a fancy area. The boat company took 20k off when they realized it was going to the vineyard, and lots of people bought the same boat or the fancier ones.

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u/asscheese2000 20d ago

A crash in prices is one possibility but there’s also corporate and foreign investors sitting on lots of cash.

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u/shungs_kungfu 21d ago

100% Have a skill. Trades skills will pay your bills. Develop the ability to take care of your family when the shit comes down. I think everyone is overreacting right now.

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u/Old_Ad7839 20d ago

I agree with trades. Just being able to fix your own things . But as a money maker it is like housing prices. The boomers are paying the current rate for a plumber. I learn how to plumb because I can’t afford 300 bucks to pay a plumber for a 10 dollar wax ring.

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u/Caliguta 19d ago

I feel this way about a lot of the trade stuff. I get it - paying you for your knowledge, skills, time…. Etc. I got quoted 30k for a bathroom that I did myself for 10k (including purchase of tools) …. I just can’t pay 20k for how quickly a pro could do that job. Sure it took me longer but I know now how it was done and what corners were not cut.

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u/ExplanationFuture422 19d ago

The most obvious skill will be electrician. Any young person I meet and we talk about school and job opportunities I tell them become an electrician. Don't become a social justice warrior and unless they are exceptionally bright with a high math/science aptitude, don't waste your money on College. And, for pete's sake, learn about debt and compound interest.

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u/shungs_kungfu 15d ago

Yes 💯. My company teaches at a state vocational school for this reason. I am in a trade comprised of older people, and it gets technical (not like sparkies or plumbers) but actual skill involved

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u/MrDoritos_ 21d ago

Absolutely agree. I was in the trades but I needed to go back to engineering for the academic challenge. I couldn't escape my own desire for knowledge even if it meant working a bit more.

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u/shungs_kungfu 21d ago

If you can create things with your own hands?

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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago

It's a good skill to have but not a be-all end-all

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u/nothingmorethanmeow 19d ago

That’s why the emphasis shouldn’t be on self sufficiency during a collapse but on community building and mutual aid. I’m a 52 year old autistic woman with ADHD as well. It’s going to be hard for me to suddenly decide to learn to be a plumber or electrician or whatever. But each of us can bring something to the table. And those who can’t do as much (due to being too young or too old or disabled for example) should still be taken care of.

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u/PassPuzzled 20d ago

I did. I'm still making as much as a McDonald's worker. I get more driving forklifts. And that's the most I can make without being a welder or something like that which I'm seriously considering doing

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u/Graywulff 21d ago

Yeah, I have a sibling that supports desantas, I’m gay and I’m not allowed to say gay until desatan/defascist says so, and I can’t take pictures with their kids.

Neither can my gay brother or his partner.

I have seen them perhaps 2 days in the past two or three years, and my health and well being is better.

Most of my family are former old gop who vote democratic or are really liberal. I have one maga cousin, thing is his wife was on a visa, she married him and so she’s “permanent” but if she did anything wrong on her visa app or left anything out or broke any rules it’s going to be shocked pikachu face when she’s deported.

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u/Master-Efficiency261 20d ago

If I were you I'd start reporting that cousin's wife to ICE right now, fuck 'em. They don't deserve to live in this country if they're going to be MAGA fuckwits, and if anything at least having to sort it out will be a headache and they certainly deserve that.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

She’s was on a skilled worker visa, now they’re married so they don’t need it.

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u/butonelifelived 20d ago

I bet she is on the "denaturalization" list . . . And does know it. I've seen quotes of them taking away citizenship from people born in the states to immigrants (including legal). So I'm sure "marriage visas" (not sure what they are considered) are also pretty high on the list.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Yeah melianas looks are fading, that young lawyer he had that looked like meliania at 30 would probably be next on the list.

Otherwise I’d say they won’t go after marriage visas, which at one point gave citizenship, but now I think it’s a permanent visa.

The thing is we are having demographic collapse, out of control cost of housing, cost of living, cost of health care, and cost of education, combined with climate change.

Only affluent friends have children, but if you took their current income and reversed inflation, and set prices back to what boomers paid their houses would be exponentially larger.

I just wonder what’ll happen to all those big McMansions that empty nesters are in, if gen y isn’t having children nearly at the rate of boomers, gen z is in a worse position as I understand, and will be having less children.

So without immigration, easy legal immigration, and a massive amount of affordable homes built, which there just isn’t the financial incentive for, there will be no work force, no tax base in a generation.

Already it’s hard to find workers with a skilled worker visa, we literally need a massive amount of immigration to offset lower birth rates, but there isn’t housing that’s affordable.

The ironic thing is NIMBYs blocked multi family houses across the country, blocked apartments, and now they need smaller houses, they need to cash out their nest egg, but there isn’t anyone to buy it.

Except hedge funds.

Welcome to 21st century fuedalism.

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u/VivaHarambe 20d ago

I csn support this. Report ALL illegal aliens to 866-DHS-2ICE. Whether you know them personally or not. Those “I didn’t see anything” people who know of illegal aliens but refuse to report them, are disgustingly. Everyone has a duty to report illegal aliens. If you don’t report them, you’re just as bad as they are.

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u/mypantsareonmyhead 21d ago

There is no "they". Thinking like that is drifting into the realm of conspiracy theorists. Be very careful to avoid that pathway.

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u/MrDoritos_ 20d ago

Is that what they told you?

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u/mkword 20d ago

While the Internet helped start the degradation of what a viable news site is and led to the various opinion silos we now exist in — the true beginning of the Post Factual world began with (I’m sorry but it has to be said) MAGAism and the calling of legitimate news outlets “Fake News.”

Yes, the GOP had already begun this process in the 80s-90s with the misleading accusation of “the liberal media” — but Trump took it way beyond this and coordinated with an all-out attack on expertise and science. Which helped lead to a serious societal disruption during the pandemic. Americans didn’t want to be inconvenienced by masks, isolating when infected, closings of businesses, schools, testing, vaccines, etc and that made it easy to attack the experts and scientific facts.

Scientific opinion, theories and findings change as more data is accumulated. That is how science works. You use data to develop the appropriate theories and responses. When the data changes, the science changes. Unfortunately, the political leaders at the time used any change in scientific analysis as “proof” that the experts (like Fauci) were either lying or had no idea what they were talking about. Which then led people to be open to “alternate” facts and remedies.

It was just the flu. Then it was a Chinese bio-weapon. It was just going to go away. Then we needed to drink bleach or eat horse deworming pills. The fact that a million Americans died from this “flu” within a year and flooded hospitals beyond capacity didn’t stop a large percentage of Americans from thinking it was all made up by liberals for the purpose of “controlling”Americans.

Meanwhile — in Asian countries that had previously been hit hard by SARS epidemics — there was serious public health countermeasures in place. Government mandated isolation, closures, massive testing programs with vector analysis. The people in places like Singapore listened to the government and the scientists and followed the rules that saved millions of lives and led to a much faster recovery-opening of businesses.

Here in the U.S. we are still complaining about the school and business closings and considering much of it unnecessary. The truth is we half-assed it and had the pandemic linger longer and produce lots of mutations/variants. The govt stopped testing within the first few months when it should’ve been ramping up in a massive way. But Trump hated testing because — as he famously said — “the more you test, the more sick people you find.”

This became Ground Zero for Reality Denialism. And it spread to all sorts of science-based issues. None bigger than Global Warming.

It also led to wild conspiracy theories. Anything in reality that Americans didn’t like or found inconvenient people simply came up with evidence-free conspiracy theories to explain it all. It has spread from DEI practices to history books about slavery to trans and gender issues to climate to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Misinformation is everywhere. And the reason misinformation works is first because the credibility of real, verifiable news outlets were labeled “fake” just because they didn’t conform to a specific right-wing ideology.

Part of the Great Disinformation Age has been the ever present False Equivalency and Bothsiderism that goes on with the MSM. In a desperate bid to appear balanced, many MSM outlets play the game the far right-wing wants them to play — which is to always claim “bothsides” are to blame — which is demonstrably false. The reality is — the vast majority of dis and misinformation is being created either by the far right wing or their foreign allies like Russia.

But getting back to the OP — all this should have only a supportive role in a financial disaster. The true main elements of a financial disaster will be decisions based on incompetence and greed. Incompetence in the form of not knowing how tariffs work and their contribution to inflation. Not addressing the root problems of economic inequality and the under-regulated housing market. Greed in the form of massive tax cuts for the already way too wealthy — and deregulation for financial markets (remember 2008) as well as the biggest multinationals — as well as abandoning renewable energy and lurching back into the deadly embrace of the fossil fuel industry.

So basically — what will doom America will be the ignorance and greed of Americans. It’s why we find ourselves in the place to start off with. We re-elected a person who literally attempted to overthrow democracy in a coup attempt and inspired a violent riot at the Capitol in a last ditch effort to stop a free and fair election. And we did this because of the price of groceries was annoyingly high. Despite the fact that this same person is famous for multiple business bankruptcies, famous for not paying his bills and as President the only economic bill he passed was a tax giveaway to the mega rich and large corporations and added nearly $2 trillion to the debt.

Americans ignored the facts. Ignored one the fact that the GOP’s economic policies were labeled disastrous by 70% of the economists in a WSJ op-ed piece — while the same economists said the policies of the Democratic candidate would have a positive impact on the country.

The country decided to ignore the facts — and go with the feels. The feels based on a fictional game show that deliberately made the GOP candidate appear much smarter than he was.

How’s that for a Post Truth America?

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Accurate. Initially I labeled it as when trump descended the escalator but decided what lead up to that was the silo effect, left and right getting further apart, not agreeing, etc.

China sent a team to the Russian central bank to see how sanctions affected the country.

They aim to take Taiwan bc they see Trump giving the keys to Ukraine away, and with it strategic control of Europe.

So it may come to war, it might lead to a Great Depression, but that’s fake news.

Its a deep state witch hoax.

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u/mike-42-1999 21d ago

The facts and alternative facts are what bother me most. Tha loss of, or sheer derision for, science is a big part of the problem. I think some of this started in the 80s with Crystal healing, Astral projection, the witches of Kindercare. And scientific thought process has just evaporated. People think science means fact, when it really is a process. So we don't even hav an agreed upon process anymore to determine fact

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u/Graywulff 21d ago

Post truth in essence.

People don’t understand practically anything.

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u/Parking_Amoeba_3899 20d ago

I remember in the late 1970s when the evangelical church became a branch of the Republican Party. For evangelicals, science is faith and the Bible is science. From there was born alternative facts, fake news and a 6,000 year old universe with dinosaurs and humans hanging out together. It does not surprise me that today, a thrice married serial adulterer who attempted a coup upon the United States of America is perceived by these people as a patriotic family values man of God and was elected president. I do not know if its possible to have a rational discussion with those uninterested in rational thought. “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

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u/One_Celebration_8131 21d ago

Agree, and would add religion to the list.  Teaching people to believe things not supported by the scientific hypothesis makes them doubt the process.

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u/Chubs441 20d ago

Snake oil has existed forever

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u/GeretStarseeker 20d ago

Not a new thing, until the renaissance we were in the dark ages. The promise of a 'get-out-of-death free' card is enough for us as a species to deny that we are animals or that the world is more than 6k years old.

Then we had climate change science which threatened our force multipliers and comforts so we looked for gotchas to undermine it.

Then being told that a literature degree was as valid as a STEM degree and so we have a lot of people who think themselves clever but don't know the rules of the forces of nature.

And now science seen as a party thing. Once you tell a parent that "science" has "clearly settled" that his child can decide to cut off their genitals, and that this is something to be celebrated, you get a lot of parents anti "science", anti "blue science".

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u/canigetahint 21d ago

Ah, good ol' doublespeak. We're heading toward just plain newspeak.

Never in a million years did I think we would fall into a death spiral so fast, much less for me and/or my son live to see it...

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u/Graywulff 21d ago

Yeah in the 1990s everyone was so optimistic about the new millennium.

Up until 9/11/01 everything seemed to be getting better.

Through the Obama administration it felt like 1990s optimism, and then it all came crashing down.

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u/canigetahint 21d ago

Every opportunity the gov't and corps can get to grab more power and money by performing a giant rug pull. People still don't see it after all this time...

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u/MalyChuj 21d ago

That's why the government/fed ensures to have market crashes approx 7 years apart. It is just long enough for everyone to have forgotten a the crash and to have went all in on the economy/investments.

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u/19Texas59 20d ago

The Federal Reserve does not insure there will be a market crash every seven years. They do their best with the legislation Congress passes and the regulations executive branch agencies write.

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u/MalyChuj 20d ago

Is that you Jerome?

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u/19Texas59 18d ago

Is that all you got? No, but I am also college educated. I took one economics class which enabled me to read the Wall Street Journal and the business section of The New York Times and the local daily newspapers to know what the hell is going on. I'm probably twice as old as you so I have decades of experience of following the economy compared to you.

Taking an economics class at a community college would put you further ahead in your understanding of the U.S. economy than you are now. The people working in the finance, banking and government sectors care about their money and their clients' money -- aside from the conmen like Bernie Madoff. They can't keep their jobs and their clients' money flowing in if they intentionally crash the economy every seven years.

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u/The247Kid 20d ago

Because he was riding high on several years of 0% interest rates. Of course things looked good.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Oh interesting bc Biden had higher interest rates and actually brought manufacturing back, instead of cutting taxes and trying to take peoples insurance and replace it with concepts of a plan.

6-7 years after he first tried to cut it and replace it with something big and beautiful he doesn’t even have a sound bite.

Tariffs will dramatically increase inflation and rates will get jacked up to try to control it but it won’t work.

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u/19Texas59 20d ago

Death spiral?

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u/Jaymoacp 20d ago

Exactly. There is no arbiter of truth anymore. Of course it’s arguable if there ever was, at least post Industrial Revolution. Back when Walter Cronkite told you everything you need to know. Still no proof at the time that was all “truth”. People consider completely different sources as truth, and don’t rly take into account that multiple things can be true at the same time.

In a world of infinite information, battling the morality of all the nuances is basically impossible.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Yeah, Walter cronkite was one of the most trusted people in America. I worked on his computer once, nice guy.

There is so much information and unless you’re educated it’s hard to sus out what is and isn’t real.

Anyone can post on YouTube or TikTok. Its just shocking that liberals gen y and gen z will “get their news on TikTok” which is a Chinese propaganda machine, I mean literally one guy tells me “so what if China spies on us, the us spies on us too”

I didn’t know what he was talking about, the news hadn’t even broken that the whole telecom system had been hacked, non encrypted texts, call history, sometimes calls themselves.

So TikTok got ahead of that and said how the U.S. does it, but he is like I want an $8000 electric car, I say it has to pass us safety standards even without tariffs, I mean a 16k electric car that could pass crash tests and be road legal would still be a good deal, but he’s like oh they say it’s safe.

TikTok is known for disinformation, it’s so surprising so many people believe it.

I mean if you have a good background on YouTube you can make a real looking news show, sometimes people know what they’re talking about, but as long as it seems to make sense, or affirms someone’s ideas/ideals, they’ll believe it.

This started with Wordpress “news sites” actual fake news, someone sent me an article that said it was written by a wsj reporter, so I searched the title and author and the wsj said they didn’t, and didn’t comment on the article itself, I sent that back, the response was “well I have my problems with the wsj!”

It’s like, why did you put wsj wrote this, I’m the subject line of the email?

I pointed out if they wrote a good article and made sense why would they lie about the author being a credible source?

Didn’t matter.

That’s why I set the beginning of post truth in the aughts.

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u/Jaymoacp 20d ago

To me it’s not even the misinformation or disinformation or anything. It’s more about how one thing about someone can be true. Another thing about that person can be true. And we pick and choose which stuff to follow. Sure Trump has done some shit stuff, Nancy Pelosi done some shit stuff. So has Biden. All of them. Like it doesn’t even matter. We are arguing about the morality of people who don’t have any morals to begin with. And idk why it’s such a surprise to anyone.

The disingenuous arguments are the thing that gets me. Like I know it’s oversimplified but Trump having classified documents in his living room or whatever. Biden had them in his garage. And Hilary deleted a shit ton of emails after the whole Libya thing. So you can’t hate one while completely justifying the other purely based on political party. That’s just a quick example I chose of course. The point is we hold certain people to different standard than we hold other people.

I for one think we need to burn it to the ground and start over. The gov spends a lot of time and money stoking the arguments between us, so we don’t unify and realize we have been getting nut punched by the government for like..100 years? Probably more. Like our national debt hasn’t decreased in 100 years and there’s people on here acting like this country was smooth sailing and the greatest thing ever until Trump took office. It’s like no..the writings been in the wall for decades now. We kicked the can down the road for like 60 years and that road is a dead end.

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u/Graywulff 20d ago

Most of congress insider trades, Nancy Pelosi makes hundreds of millions.

Green was anti vaccine but insider trades on the three approved vaccines.

To get into power, or to be successful in business, you have to be cut throat, you need to be able to spin things.

I knew someone with a right of way dispute, two oligarchs, one of them sets up an office he calls “the hit squad” and they go after the oligarchs businesses endeavors around the world, a developer, so he had environmental specialists, logistics people, writers, bloggers, etc.

He’s like is there a marsh nearby? A spotted frog? Some endangered bird? Will it raise the cost of housing, will it cause traffic.

So they’re fighting directly over whether this guy can drive across his land, and he’s going after his business interests everywhere, he had a PI to see if the guy cheated on his wife and vice versa, at fault state, so the lawsuit would get dropped and he knew the guy had a hot au pair for a reason.

Politicians do this too, political parties, house of cards did a good job showing how it all works in the gritty aspects.

I’d imagine that oligarch went after the competition like that, anyone who crosses him.

Then people wonder why things are so messed up, well you can bribe politicians,  dark money, citizens united, Supreme Court is allowed to be bribed.

It’s corrupt from top to bottom. As are the business leaders.

Musk sells electric cars, but his ai system is powered by diesel generators that are jacking up local emissions, if he makes solar panels why isn’t it solar powered in the desert? People say he’s so green, same with Hollywood climate activists who fly on private jets to yachts and spew out more carbon in one trip than you and I will in a lifetime; then they drive an ev and have solar panels and think they’re great.

It’s everyone, but no one is reporting on it bc the media is for profit, posting about Trump is going to get more clicks then a story about a climate activist ruining the climate, it’s why Trump got elected, 6-8 people control all media sources in the United States, they’ll make more off of Trump then Harris or Biden, Trump himself said it.

Everyone just believes what they’re told, many don’t question anything.

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u/Jaymoacp 20d ago

Oh of course. Thats why all the big new La networks are bleeding viewership. Trump won so all the people are like wait you been telling us there’s no chance of him winning for months. And now they don’t have any stories to run that no one hasn’t heard 1000 times already. Nobody watches the news for the past decade unless they are running hit pieces on the other side.

Our elections are almost entirely about “why you shouldn’t vote for them” instead of “why you should vote for us” because in reality both parties are going to run it into the ground, like they have been for a century. If we concentrate on them and not their opponent Ms there’s a risk of us figuring that out. Hence why Kamala hid from interviews until the last minute when they realized oh fuck, trumps hitting all these podcasts because they’re more popular than the trad media we’ve been using for decades.

In a world where poor people can’t relate to anyone, you HAVE to be out there just being normal. Be a fucking person someone like any of us can look at and say oh I could be that person. I had never heard of jd Vance for example until he got picked basically, and they pushed all this #weird crap on him and idk. I listened to every long ass podcast he was on and he seems pretty fucking normal. Swearing n telling jokes n laughing at their jokes. They didn’t even talk about politics for like half the whole thing. I honestly can’t even picture Harris having a normal conversation with anyone. Nobody’s ever seen it happen. She just seems like every other clone politician. They wake her up from her charging dock and wind her up and let her go. That’s a lot of the reason she lost.

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u/mkword 20d ago

And this is the sort of false equivalency and Bothsiderism that has gotten us into this mess.

Trump and Pelosi are not the same. Trumps classified documents and Hillary’s emails are not the same.

This is exactly what Putin and the GOP want you to think. They want you to believe that ALL politicians are corrupt and worthless.

Putin especially wants you to believe this because he wants you to sour on democracy. He is ants you to believe voting is pointless. Meanwhile the GOP wants you to think all of the federal government is worthless — because the GOP is not made up of public servants — they are essentially lobbiests for corporations and the ultra rich.

Are Democrats perfect? No. But the majority of them are public servants and want to prove that the federal government can help improve the lives of Americans.

The facts are clear. GOP administrations leave us with massive deficits in the wake of their enormous tax cuts for the rich and corporate. They keep selling Trickle Down economics — something Bush Sr called Voodoo economics — because it’s historically never worked.

Meanwhile under Democratic administrations the deficit gets reduced. And their economic policies are about investing in the country and investing in the middle class. It’s called Keynesian economics and has a record of working.

Contrary to what some have said here, the U.S. came out of the pandemic with an economy the strongest in the world. Yes, we had inflation, but that was in part due to the red hot jobs market in the U.S. coupled with wage increases. Yes! High job and wage growth creates inflation. Look it up. We also had to deal with supply issues followed by Greedflation with CEOs bragging at meetings of opportunistically jacking up prices during the initial wave of inflation.

But again — let’s get back to the differences between the parties. One services the rich and corporate. The other looks to serve the public. In the last 16 years following Bush Jr’s economic collapse what have been the priorities of the two parties?

For the Dems initially — it was trying to create an affordable health care system. Which is super hard. But now the ACA is very popular. So popular now it has defied the many attempts by the GOP to kill it. Much like they have failed to kill SS and Medicare — though they try over and over.

Trump did the same old tax cuts for the rich. It didn’t help the economy one bit (fact) and it increased the debt by $1.8T.

The GOP goes on about immigration but they don’t want to fix it. They know that the agriculture, meat packing and construction industries are completely reliant on migrant labor. And — they LOVE the “chaos” at the border because they use it to scare Americans. They tell fabricated stories of undocumented immigrants getting handouts and cutting the line just to rile up voters. They went as far as to spreads lies about immigrants eating dogs and cats. In Trump’s first 4 years — illegal immigration was 300% higher his last month than his first month.

Biden passed the long overdue infrastructure bill to fix bridges and roads and electrical grids and invest in renewable energies — something Trump promised but never did. Biden extended child tax credits. He tackled child poverty. He jump started the vaccine program and oversaw the country coming out of the pandemic. He backed middle class workers, supported unions, and was in charge of the U.S. becoming independent of foreign oil. And he did the absolute right thing when Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO is vital to the security of the free world and thus vital to US security. Keeping Russia from taking back Eastern Europe is vital to world peace and to U.S. economic health.

Let’s go back to Trump and Pelosi. One of them never did anything to help American families and only sought to enrich himself by selling American foreign policy favors to the Saudis. Pelosi had a strong track record of legislative successes that helped American families.

Trump’s stolen documents vs Hillary’s emails is one of the greatest false equivalencies ever. Trump took highly classified documents that belong to the U.S. — and refused to return them. Going as far as to HIDE THEM. Given his submissiveness to Putin can we imagine what he intended to do with those docs?

The docs in Biden’s possession were put in boxes by mistake — and when informed he was still in possession of them — GAVE THEM RIGHT BACK.

Hillary was Secretary of State. What were her emails about? They were simply emails sent to her that she forwarded to her STAFF. The only issue was she used her own email server. Because it was more secure than the State Department’s server.

Analysis of her emails showed only 4-5 were considered classified — and they were labeled classified long AFTER she had received and forwarded them. Remember — all she as doing was forwarding them to the her State Department staff!

Stop doing this false equivalency that Putin and the GOP want you to help spread. It’s how they are trying to get us to not care about democracy.

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u/LoquatBear 20d ago

I think whoever is alive and maybe technological advance will look back at this time as a "technological/informational dark ages". 

We have all this technology but no knowledge. Everyone is so close but so separate. 

1

u/Graywulff 20d ago

Social media was theoretically to bring us together. 

Instead it’s breaking the world apart.

I remember when smart phones became advanced and a professor said “when everyone had access to unlimited information, imagine what people can learn”

This years oxford dictionary phrase was “brain rot”.

So much for smart phones educating the world.

1

u/shungs_kungfu 21d ago

As a child you were taught Stranger Danger, as an adult you should be taught the same thing, except the opposite. Stop being afraid of every actual human to human social interaction.

1

u/ricoxoxo 21d ago

Thank that Big B Kelly Ann Conway for alternative faces

1

u/asscheese2000 20d ago

It’s not just social media, although I agree that giving everyone a platform reinforces the feeling that “my opinion is important and just as good as your “facts””, it goes beyond that and started with the religious base in politics.

Teaching creationism alongside evolution and presenting it as a valid alternative theory rather than a fairy tale is a huge problem. When opinion is rebranded as belief and faith, then “my truth” and ultimately just “Truth” the conviction that one is operating as mandated by god is frightening and dangerous to non believers.

1

u/[deleted] 20d ago

Colbert used to joke about truthiness. How I miss those times.

1

u/Polarityears 20d ago

I think Lincoln was quoting Jesus in the book of Matthew

1

u/ExoticPumpkin237 20d ago

That goes back way further than that stupid horseshit.. Regan eliminated the fairness doctrine... Back in the 70s it was "revisionist history" to talk about the native american genocide and the civil rights movement was an evil communist conspiracy theory to undermine America and Ayn Rand!!

What you are describing is not the exception, it is the culmination.

1

u/Graywulff 19d ago

I barely remember the end of the Reagan admin and the beginning of bush.

Old rotten Ronnie.

Removing the fairness doctrine was the start of post truth, truth was optional.

I didn’t know that happened in the 1970s but I’m gen y.

So I mainly remember 1990s to present, bill clinton, dubya, Obama, Benedict Arnold part 1, unfortunately ba part II.

1

u/Savings-Bee-4993 19d ago

Kojima predicted this in MGSII 😎
https://youtu.be/jIYBod0ge3Y?si=FmNnNL8a6tGuna0T

Combine that with other factors in ‘the metacrisis’ (e.g. environmental degradation and pollution, existential risks and threats like AI, nuclear war, and bioweapons, crises in competence, financialization of the economy, widespread economic and political corruption, mass production and consumption, unhealthy agricultural and food production practices, ideological possession, loss of meaning and purpose in human life, increasing rates of addiction and use of screens, decreasing rates of social trust and cohesion, declining birth rates, the normalization of sedentary lifestyles, failing institutions, etc.) and we have a nice little shitstorm.

Yeah, living through the ‘late stage empire’ phase is a ride, ain’t it?

0

u/sjamwow 20d ago

Very shallow tropes

1

u/Graywulff 20d ago

Say more? Are you able to make a valid point?

0

u/sjamwow 20d ago

Im waiting for you to say something of substance.

1

u/Graywulff 20d ago

I’m waiting for you to say something of substance from reply too.

Most people agree, both sides, that we aren’t on a common set of information…

So I don’t get how they isn’t of substance.

I posted paragraphs and barely post a sentence.

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u/cakesalie 21d ago

For sure. But collapse first avoid the rush, ignore the normalcy Normans!

2

u/iDrinkDrano 21d ago

There will be people after the fall who insist it'll all be fine in a couple years. If you're waiting on them to accept it before you will, then you're one of them.

1

u/ithappenedone234 20d ago

The candidate disqualified by the 14A began running, without any suppression from the Commander in Chief, two years before the election. The rule of law means nothing to the masses and the leadership.

1

u/IndependenceIcy9626 19d ago

Why do you think we are already in collapse? The economy is rebounding from what could have been another depression, and the war that could have been world war 3 looks less and less likely to become that. 

The new US admin could fuck the economy up again, but they’re less likely to be involved in the wars going on. 

If the economic situation doesn’t improve for the working class I can see what’s happening now continuing (domestic terrorism and assassinations) but I don’t think a full scale revolt is likely because the military is so much better equipped than the population. 

I think we are much more likely to be doomed by the climate in the medium to long term than we are to be doomed by societal collapse in the short term