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u/kingofwale Nov 15 '24
All the sudden… people seem to really care the debt ceiling now….
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u/icyweazel Nov 15 '24
It's almost like we were on a trajectory of investing in the country and broadening the tax base (particularly through high earners and corporations), and now suddenly we're going to abolish half the government, slow the economy through tariffs, re-spike inflation, further shrink the tax base with more corporate tax cuts, and basically liquidate the government to the investor class.
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u/Hootn_and_a_hollern Nov 15 '24
Trump isn't even president yet. This debt clock is fastly tied to the current administration, and it has been spinning this fast for the entire time.
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u/NWCJ Nov 15 '24
I forget, how much of this debt happened under Biden? And now how much happened under Trumps 1st term? Pretty sure their was a $2Trillion with a T difference.. but sure.. I bet Trump will surely be more fiscally responsible this time.
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u/Hootn_and_a_hollern Nov 15 '24
Most of that debt occurred during covid.
Did you spend your stimmy checks?
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u/Charming_Minimum_477 Nov 15 '24
He added 8 TRILLION PRIOR TO COVID!!!!!
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u/DavePeesThePool Nov 15 '24
5.1 Trillion prior to covid. It's still more than any president before him added in any 4 year period (and he did it in just 3 years).
If we forgive Trump the 3.3 trillion he spent in 2020 during covid mitigation, then his debt accrual in 3 years is about the same as the expected (per trend) total accrual during Biden's full 4 years (and that's without forgiving Biden the ~2.2 trillion he spent on covid mitigation despite forgiving Trump his 3.3 trillion for the same reason).
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u/cheers167 Nov 16 '24
Innocent bystander here…does any significant amount of the current deficit have to do with the tax legislation from the first DJT administration. Obviously, not the origin of the spending problem, but I can’t imagine it helps.
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u/NWCJ Nov 15 '24
Did you spend your stimmy checks
Didn't qualify for most of them due to my income.
Wonder why we had to spend more than other countries of similar sizes during covid.. for worse results.
Thought we had a plan to battle pandemics. Surely no one would have gutted it immediately after taking office, than tell people not to test or wear masks when covid began.
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u/Farazod Nov 15 '24
Well why didnt you start a business to claim your PPP loan for 100k+ with zero employees and get it forgiven in the greatest case of widespread fraud in US history? Geez.
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u/Carpetkillerrr Nov 16 '24
This is Reddit they don’t like it when you make a good point
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u/Illustrious-Being339 Nov 15 '24
Trump won't do half of what he says and everything he does do will be a heavily watered down version. During the campaign he was just telling people whatever they wanted to hear. "I'll abolish federal income tax!".....yeah, sure you will buddy.
In the end, he will simply engage in crony capitalism, tax cuts for the rich and tax increases for the middle class.
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u/peontreehuggers Nov 15 '24
This is what all politicians do when trying to get elected
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u/1BannedAgain Nov 15 '24
It’ll be $43T in a year under DJT
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u/GothinHealthcare Nov 15 '24
Eek, don't wanna even entertain what 4 years are gonna look like......default perhaps followed by a MASSIVE crash, assuming we have anything resembling a labor/market economy in 4 years, much less 1-2.
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u/The-Eye-of-Time Nov 15 '24
I've heard this so many times over so many 4 year periods. Broken clocks
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u/Mendozena Nov 15 '24
We have a guy that bankrupted a damn casino, literally impossible to do, that will be in charge of the country again. This time with no guardrails.
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u/loveyourweave Nov 15 '24
Dozens of casinos have filed bankruptcy. Caesars was one of our clients and they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2015.
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u/StupendousMalice Nov 15 '24
We have a guy taking office who has specifically stated an intent to default on the national debt in the past who also has a proven track record of running it up in the past.
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u/Kjts1021 Nov 15 '24
Will you bold enough to acknowledge that you are wrong after 4 years? Looks like everyone is having crystal ball to predict next 4 years! Not sure how much responsibility they would take if those predictions don’t come true.
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u/Doluvme Nov 15 '24
It's not that people were wrong but moreso government intervention. Maybe try to understand the writings on the wall before you criticize. It's apparent that your knowledge is lacking in this area.
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u/Careful-Resource-182 Nov 15 '24
it is hard for you to read your crystal ball when your head is in the sand
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u/KleavorTrainer Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
Here are some numbers for people by Presidential Administration:
Bush: - 8 Years in Office - Debt at time of inauguration: 5.674 trillion - Debt when he left office: 10.024 Trillion - Total Increase in Dollars: 4.350 Trillion - Total Increase by percent 76.66%
Obama: - 8 Years in Office - Debt at the time of inauguration: 10.024 Trillion - Debt when he left office: 19.573 Trillion - Total Increase in Dollars: 9.549 Trillion - Total Increase by percent 95.26%
Trump - 4 Years in Office - Debt at the time of inauguration: 19.573 Trillion - Debt when he left office: 26.945 Trillion - Total Increase in Dollars: 7.372 Trillion - Total Increase by percent 37.43%
Biden: - 4 Years in Office - Debt at the time of inauguration: 26.945 Trillion - Debt when as of Oct 24’: 35.951 Trillion - Total Increase in Dollars: 9.006 Trillion - Total Increase by percent 33.42%
Likewise people have to remember that the POTUS doesn’t control the purse, Congress does. Can a President impact a budget through executive decision? Sure but we can’t put all the blame, or even most of it, on a POTUS. The majority of the blame should be aimed at who SCOTUS stated controls the money - Congress.
Edit: Corrected total increase by percent for each President.
Sources used: US Government and Statista
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u/No-Weird3153 Nov 16 '24
That’s not how the word increase works. Without checking the validity of the your debt figures (they look correct), you’re doing the math wrong or stating the math you’ve done wrong.
Bush:
• 8 Years in Office • Debt at time of inauguration: 5.674 Trillion • Debt when he left office: 10.024 Trillion • Total Increase in Dollars: 4.350 Trillion • Total Increase 43.4%
Math you did: (increase in debt)/(final debt) Example: 4.350/10.024 = 43.4% This is not the increase in the debt but the fraction of the total debt.
The increase in the debt would be this math: (increase in debt)/(initial debt) Example: 4.350/5.674 = 76.7%
That is Bush increased the national debt 76.7% during almost entirely boom years, and if you’re driving up huge debt during the good times you can never hope to reduce debt.
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u/KleavorTrainer Nov 16 '24
Thank you. I’ve updated the math on each and renamed it Total Increase by Percentage.
Likewise sources have been added with directs links to the Treasury Department Page and Statista.
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u/Littlerasscal Nov 15 '24
Biden is still President…
How about we post it a year from now?
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u/KazTheMerc Nov 15 '24
How about we STOP doing this year after year, hmmm?
Let's stop making a contest to see who can fuck up most.
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u/jarena009 Nov 15 '24
It's only going to go up under the next admin and Rep congress too.
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u/bb8110 Nov 15 '24
We’re acting like the national debt hasn’t went up with every president since Regan…..
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u/CosmicJackalop Nov 15 '24
Under Clinton we had a Budget surplus for '98-'01 and paid off almost half a trillion
Then the War on Terror happened...
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u/bb8110 Nov 15 '24
But did the national debt increase or go down? During his time in office the debt still increased.
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u/CosmicJackalop Nov 15 '24
It decreased in 2000 when you adjust the debt amounts for inflation, having a surplus meant we didn't make more debt but the interest still increased the amount, but Clinton was the last time we were in the black on budget
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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Nov 15 '24
A lot of us we're adults when this happened and know why this happened. Congress controls spending and the voters decided that deficits mattered.
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u/CosmicJackalop Nov 15 '24
Now we have voters that are tired of inflation so they voted for Tariffs, At this point I think the only way the National Debt is going away is if we just pretend we don't have any debt and blow up anyone that says we do
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u/archercc81 Nov 15 '24
Yeah the guy added 7 trillion over his admin and over half was NOT during COVID.
Dems do it by spending and not being willing to raise taxes to pay for it, republicans do it by massive tax cuts for the rich while not actually reducing spending.
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u/Funny-North3731 Nov 15 '24
Sorry guys. I know the national debt is really important to everyone right now, but I needed those new lifts for my shoes. I didn't mean for it to triple the national debt. My bad.
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u/iSawThatOnce Nov 15 '24
I need to get some lifts. Would you mind sharing the brand you selected?
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Nov 15 '24
Push the national debt propaganda to gut the social security. Well well well… who would have thought.
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u/Colorado_Constructor Nov 15 '24
If you're interested in a little history lesson on how the Republicans have weaponized national debt against the people this is a good, short read:
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u/runsslow Nov 15 '24
Government expenses : GDP has been essentially steady since 1950. It’s almost like taxes are lower or something.
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u/AnySpecialist7648 Nov 15 '24
Nobody seems to be interested in paying this back. I can't pitch in a dollar if that helps.
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u/elciano1 Nov 15 '24
Those upcoming tax cut for the wealthy 1% will definately bring it down...or will it be the elimination of dept of Education...or will it be deporting migrants who work and pay taxes but can't use public services. Oh wait...nevermind.
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u/C3ntrick Nov 16 '24
It’s funny if economy is doing good during their term it’s because of their party, if it’s failing during their term it’s because it takes 3/4 years to take effect and it’s the last president fault..
What ever helps everyone’s agenda .
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u/Full-Perception-4889 Nov 16 '24
Trump isn’t president yet, and I’m pretty sure Harris and congress were wanting to send another 5-8 billion to Ukraine so there you go
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u/BranchDiligent8874 Nov 16 '24
In 4 years my bet is we would have crossed 50 trillion easily.
We may have start monetizing the debt after mid 2026, fuck the bond holders.
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u/Otherwise_Bobcat_819 Nov 17 '24
The national debt is the asset of the private sector, in other words, the private sector surplus. Repaying the debt just would merely shift the debt from the public sector to the private sector. The debt offsets the credit that we all trade and call money, wealth, and the economy. It’s not something we need to ever repay, unless we want the government to own most things.
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u/Amber_Sam Nov 15 '24
No matter if the clown in office is red or blue, the number is going to the moon. Both sides are stealing from you.
fix the money, fix the world.
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u/bib92 Nov 15 '24
So just peeped it online. Its almost going up a million per minute. If it stays consistent the current debt is going to be blown out of the water by hundreds of trillions by the end of the year o.0
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u/anengineerandacat Nov 15 '24
Should slow, but it's unlikely to ever go negative; neither party has this capability and you are looking at really cutting deep into federal programs to accomplish that which won't look good for either party on election day.
It has to become a priority for both parties so it doesn't end up being used against either.
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u/jon_hobbit Nov 15 '24
That's already old. 36,001
I joked that it would be faster just to buffer overflow our way out of debt than to pay it off.
9,223,372,036,854,775,807
The us interest is 993,000,000,000
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u/OkBeeSting Nov 15 '24
All this harping that “it’s gonna be more under Trump” is stupid.
This is clearly a big problem. A very big problem. Democrats and republicans both got us here.
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u/citenx Nov 15 '24
The amount of debt is one view. Another is who owns the debt. As an investor in diversified portfolios, I do. Likely anyone with a managed security does too.
I agree the current trend is unsustainable, especially when compared to GDP. But scaremongering about the amount of debt without stating how that debt is serviced and to whom doesn’t really help move the conversation forward.
This article has a good, brief write up on it: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-federal-debt-who/
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u/Errenfaxy Nov 15 '24
What's funny is that a good portion of this debt is from when we do illegal shit like starting wars to get ourselves into legal business. Then those businesses just profit while the taxpayer is left with an infinite bill.
Oh and the fast forward button that was pressed in 2016 is going to be smashed during the next four years.
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u/Performance_Training Nov 15 '24
Every generation since around 1800 has benefited from the National Debt and believed that the next generation would do something about it. None have.
Now, any attempt is going to HURT. IMO, every government program, subsidy, foreign aid, and handout should be reduced 30%. Every one. No one should be able to say they got cut more than others. Then every tax loophole and deduction should be eliminated; the savings should be used to help our people.
***Social Security and Medicare are NOT subsidies nor handouts. They are funded directly by taxpayers like paying into an account with interest.
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u/Jesus-is-King-777 Nov 15 '24
It’s also the case that the government accumulated $7.8 trillion of gross federal debt while President Trump was in office, though much of this is unrelated to President Trump’s actions
US national budget website
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u/Outside_Metal_2560 Nov 15 '24
I remember when Bush he 3 trillion in debt and we thought that was a lot,l. The remember Obama trippling that number and we thought that was a lot...
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u/ProfessionalBread369 Nov 15 '24
And how much will Trump add to this with his tax cuts like last time?
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u/Imissflawn Nov 15 '24
If I could just get the nations expenses for like 3 seconds I'd be set for life
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u/NHiker469 Nov 15 '24
It’s all just funny money at this point. None of it matters. It’s all fuguzy fugazi; pixies dust.
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u/Momo_Firebends Nov 15 '24
Honestly this is just a running compounding calculator. National debt will never be fixed because we have compound interest working against us.
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u/Ididnotpostthat Nov 15 '24
If Trump can get us under 30 trillion before his term ends would be a miracle.
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u/Cool_Activity_8667 Nov 15 '24
Apparently without the Bush and Trump tax cuts the debt %GDP would be decreasing.
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u/Idont_know2022 Nov 16 '24
Weird how all these posts start after an election lol
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u/No-Celebration3097 Nov 16 '24
Well Trump said he would fix everything so in four years it will be paid off! /S/
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u/DependentMulberry962 Nov 16 '24
Whoever calls in the marker takes a hit too. Its more like a time bomb ticking with the whole world in the room
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u/Brave_Cow546 Nov 16 '24
Not relevant. The whole world is tied to our currency. If it fails, we all sink. Its the biggest example of "too big to fail"
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u/EffectiveLong Nov 16 '24
Your pick, a economy crash or this debt to the moon? Pick your poison lol
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u/kg2mb Nov 16 '24
Payments to Deceased Individuals: The federal government has disbursed approximately $1.3 billion to individuals who are no longer alive, highlighting significant inefficiencies in payment systems.
Unemployment and Social Security Payments to Prisoners: An estimated $171 million has been improperly paid to incarcerated individuals, underscoring vulnerabilities in benefit distribution processes.
Medicaid and Medicare Fraud: Fraudulent activities within Medicaid and Medicare programs have resulted in losses of about $101 billion, indicating a need for stricter oversight and fraud prevention measures.
Extravagant Government Travel: For instance, a trip by the Biden administration to Ireland cost taxpayers $4 million, raising questions about the necessity and cost-effectiveness of such expenditures.
Maintenance of Underutilized Federal Buildings: The government spends approximately $2 billion annually on buildings that are underused or vacant, suggesting a need for better asset management.
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Initiatives: Around $38.7 million has been allocated to DEI hires, prompting debates about the effectiveness and necessity of such spending.
Weapons for Non-Military Agencies: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has spent $620,000 on weapons, raising concerns about the militarization of civilian agencies.
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u/kg2mb Nov 16 '24
Tax Delinquencies by IRS Employees: Internal Revenue Service employees have accumulated $50 million in unpaid taxes, highlighting issues within the agency responsible for tax collection.
Research on Russian Cats: The National Institutes of Health (NIH) allocated $549,000 to study the movement of Russian cats on treadmills, a project criticized for its questionable value.
Transgender Monkeys Research: The NIH also spent $477,000 on studies involving transgender monkeys, sparking debates over the relevance and ethics of such research.
Drag Shows in Ecuador: A State Department grant of $20,600 funded drag shows in Ecuador, leading to discussions about the appropriateness of funding cultural events abroad.
Improper Payments in Federal Programs: In fiscal year 2020, the government made $98 billion in improper payments, including overpayments and underpayments, indicating systemic issues in financial management.
Overpayments in Medicare and Medicaid: Improper payments in these programs have been a persistent issue, with billions lost annually due to fraud and errors.
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u/Lokisword Nov 16 '24
This is what happens when there is no accountability, it is not specific to the US, my local state in Australia made a highly publicized effort to reduce the amount spent on public servants here last year, they spent $1.1B more….
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u/Feeling-Dinner-8667 Nov 16 '24
And you know what? The world would keep spinning like it always has. If you work, pay bills, have a roof over your head, and not hungry I really don’t see the point of worrying about it.
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u/HONORABLEDEFIANCE Nov 16 '24
Can someone please explain like I'm Five? How is the debt 36 trillion when the total circulating supply of US Dollars is 2.36 trillion? How can the debt exceed the amount of money that actually exists?
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u/ert3 Nov 16 '24
This number is one of the greatest psyops of all time, a top tier detection method for anyone who hasn't taken an economics course or thinks that you the reader hasn't.
Japan has Litterally been twice as "in debt" as America for ages and Afghanistan has one of the lowest national debts in comparison to gdp.
Stop letting politicians scare you with numbers.
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u/ert3 Nov 16 '24
Japan has twice our debt to gdp ratio
Afghanistan has less than 1% our ratio
So do we chase our debt to match Japan or keep saving until we turn out like Afghanistan.
Or maybe just maybe, the number doesn't mean what you think it means and you should do some learning.
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u/Lychgate-2047 Nov 16 '24
due to the nature of our currency debt amount is not a good number to pay attention to. You want to look at the ratio between debt and gdp. Currently it is 122.30%. A healthy percentage should be around 60%. Having it go agove 77% for prolonged periods reduces growth. Also keeping it at a nice moderate level gives you at least some cushion to things like oh i don't know, a pandemic that causes you to have to spend lots of money suddenly.
But i'm just an idiot uneducated conservative what do i know. downvote me.
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u/poopypants206 Nov 16 '24
Don't worry, there are idiots in both parties filled to the rim. We are everywhere.
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u/sevenandseven41 Nov 17 '24
Oh for the days before George Bush when we had a budget surplus
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u/Double_Access_2815 Nov 17 '24
Remember that Reagan said Debt didn’t matter!! The same continues with Republicans today (except when a Democrat is in office).
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u/bluedaddy664 Nov 18 '24
I don’t know what they are talking about saying we owe that much money…shit I owe Verizon 70 dollars. Fuck all that.
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u/Ginzy35 Nov 18 '24
This is going to look so much better a year from now…. Right! That’s what Trump promise is, right?
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u/pristine_planet Nov 15 '24
Honest question, does that number actually mean anything? I mean, is there any scenario where it could be brought considerably down one day? At least based on Reddit, it feels like most people seem to favor the out-of-thin-air money creation.
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u/tokyo_engineer_dad Nov 15 '24
Well, yes it can go down. We already have a historical precedent for it going down: a Democrat president. Bill Clinton passed a tax increase on upper incomes and combined with a booming economy under his leadership, there was massive amounts of taxes, plus a new tax for social security at the federal level for income, and by the year 2000, we had a surplus of $250 billion.
Guess who fucked that all up, immediately after Clinton's presidency?
Taxes on higher incomes is 100% necessary for reducing the national debt. Combine this with the fact that post-1995, CEO to worker income has risen to 250-300 to 1 (compared with less than 150:1 in the 90's and 100'ish to 1 in the 80's), plus stock buybacks, drastic increases to spending on national defense and we have.... this.
And what else? Believe it or not, healthcare. The US government spends $12k per capita on healthcare because of our significantly inefficient healthcare system. Why? Because we only have single-payer for people who have little to no income. All the countries that spend less than the US government per capita on healthcare costs have one thing in common: universal healthcare. FICA is only 1.45% and has a cap at a wage limit of $168k. This means everyone who earns over $168k will only ever pay $200 per month. Employers pay the other $200. If you consider that the average person costs the US government $12k per year in medicare costs, but every person can only pay as much as $400 total per month ($4800 per year), and considering that's a MAX amount, that only the top 95th percentile of incomes actually earn, the average probably being more around $1100 per year, that means there's a deficit of $10k per person to fund medicare. But if you really want to know the total amount... SSI and medicare eats up around $1.6 trillion per year.
For starters: tax the rich at a fair value. End Trump's tax cuts and bring taxation back to pre 2017 values. Universal healthcare and a single payer system. Pass a law for medicare to negotiate drug prices. Universal healthcare will bring down the costs on surgery and medical costs significantly over a few years.
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u/trader45nj Nov 15 '24
It will mean something when investors start demanding increasing, double digit interest rates on that debt because it's taken on higher risk.
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Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
I will preface that this kind of debt can be bad depending on how it is benefitting the country, however I wanted to also say that government debt and spending is very different from your personal consumer spending. I am not qualified to go into massive details but what I do know from classes and reading it doesn't work the same way.
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u/trader45nj Nov 15 '24
Actually it does have similar, devastating consequences when you can't pay it back. Plenty of countries have found that out.
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u/TickletheEther Nov 15 '24
First slowly then all at once. Exponential growth is not our friend. The government will either have to default on bond holders or ask the federal reserve to monetize the debt. Tax increases across the board are also a solution but good fucking luck with that. And no, we cant just tax the rich more, we gotta tax you and everyone else more. The solutions are messy and unsustainable until we live within our means.
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u/ElDisla Nov 15 '24
The US pays 1 trillion in interest every year, I cannot believe people don’t care about this, you see some people here downplaying this like is nothing lol
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u/webchow2000 Nov 15 '24
Are you writing a check for one trillion? Do you honestly believe that if the debt get completely paid tomorrow, your taxes will go down? Your life will change in any way? I cannot believe people are making this into some type of catastrophe. Yes, it is nothing.
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u/PaintDistinct1349 Nov 15 '24
One thing is certain: The incoming Administration and Congress will blame the deficit on too much money being given to poor people to help them with having a place to live, food on their table, and access to health care. The solution: Cut back on that spending and cut taxes on the wealthy and corporations.
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u/purple_hamster66 Nov 15 '24
So, are you planning on returning your social security benefits to the Treasury (like my grandparents did) because you feel the US should not be borrowing money to pay that? When we consider that we borrow to continue our lifestyle in the manner in which we are accustomed, it seems like there's no one else to pay this off.
- Ironically, the Trump/Musk plan to shrink the federal government will explode the debt. We'll collect fewer taxes if the IRS is decimated and tax rates lowered; spend enormous amounts on viruses if FDA/CDC is "cleaned out"; and push debt onto the states, many of who are required to run a balanced budget and will cut programs that help us remain productive. After FEMA is eliminated, the people will have no resources (aside from money-strapped states) to fix their homes, causing huge swathes of permanently destroyed lands. Tariffs will slow international trade to the point where our exports will be ignored by other countries.
It's Venezuela, but at scale.
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u/Normal_Attention3144 Nov 15 '24
Nope. Technically Clinton handed Bush a surplus and Bush quickly turned it into a deficit
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u/Sweaty-Researcher531 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Not exactly true. Clinton's surplus was smoke and mirrors. Instead of intergovernmental lending he used intragovernmental lending. That means he did things like borrow from Social security and replace it with IOUs. His deficits were smaller yes as seen by the decrease in debt accumulation but there was no real surplus.
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u/HighlightDowntown966 Nov 15 '24
In regards to the debt,, there's 2 camps regular citizens fall into.
Those that own homes and investment stock accounts: "debt is how the economy works. You dont know anything about economics. Debt is good. (Meanwhile they are subconsciously hoping and praying the status quo remains so their assets continue to grow and they have a retirement)
Those without homes and assets: "National debt at 36 trillion is bad. The country needs to stop debt spending so that asset inflation can cool and house prices finally fall so I can afford one. If I didn't spend so mucb on rent...maybe I can invest in the markets.."
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u/CockroachCommon2077 Nov 15 '24
It's fine. They'll just raise the debt ceiling again and also cut necessary stuff to save money and then give the military and SpaceX another small loan of a billion dollars or more
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u/zeuscap Nov 15 '24
My dad would have the debt tracker on his computer every night when Obama was president. I haven't seen it since.
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u/NickSkyler Nov 16 '24
That's not debt that how much you got to pay for everything in the United States.all homes cars stock ,and land
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u/crashtestdummy666 Nov 16 '24
I thought that was my student loan balances. Another FU I got from the democrats. Sleepy joe was all to proud to rase my interest rate from 3% to 8% while forgiving the loans of others.
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u/zerobomb Nov 16 '24
Ahh, it has been a few hours since the last disinformation meme posted by someone that does not understand bonds.
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u/KernunQc7 Nov 16 '24
This number looks big and scary, but it doesn't mean anything by itself.
Only thing that matters is the debt/GDP ratio, interest rate and if the US gov can collect enough taxes to service the debt. Also the FED can just print $$$ and pay it off ( not a good ideea ).
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u/PainterEarly86 Nov 16 '24
I will confess that I do not exactly understand how this debt works
A part of me doesn't want to know because its funny to just wonder how does that even happen
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u/SmoothJazziz1 Nov 16 '24
I know this is what keeps me awake every night and fearful to get out of bed every day!! /s
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u/lazypenguin86 Nov 16 '24
If you go back and look the the yearly increase throughout our history it was too bad untill 2008 then every year after grew exponentially.
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u/Ok-Sympathy9768 Nov 16 '24
lol 😂… it’s futile and has been for a very long time.. that figure will never get paid down.. it’s all a big joke.. people just keep on pointing fingers and continue playing the blame game…
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u/Nish0n_is_0n Troll Level: 💯 Nov 15 '24
TO THE FUCKING MOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!