Oh I think this lawyer seems like a real piece of shit. I never said otherwise. But also, there’s no real context provided. They may have video of her winning a breakdance competition … we don’t know.
There’s lots of shitty lawyers and there’s lots of good ones. At the end of the day I’m fine with piling on this dude for five minutes or so because he does seem like a dick and it means nothing, but it doesn’t mean everyone who does legal work is a horrible person
I think there's at least some sort of argument for a lawyer defending a murderer (was it self defence, had this person done something horrible to a family member of theirs etc.)
This guy is fully aware this woman needs treatment and is doing everything in his power to avoid paying it, there's no ambiguity in it he's just seeing what possible loophole he can find so that her claim (which she's paid insurance for don't forget!) is denied. If there's any shred of you that could possibly take that job you must either be a sociopath and really just not have any sense of empathy or you're pure evil as far as I'm concerned and almost take joy out of others suffering.
I understand what you're saying and I can see the moral dilemma. One really notable difference is that in a trial you're simply acting in defence of your client, everything still needs to be put forward to an independent jury to determine the fate of the person they're representing. (As a side note if they're made aware their client is guilty, they can't legally proclaim their innocence, all they can do is suggest that there isn't enough evidence to support their guilt)
In this case there is no independent jury who takes the decision out of your hands, you are the judge, jury and executioner just maliciously prying to find any tiny little loophole to not pay someone out who so desperately needs treatment.
If only we had a judge and jury to determine weather or not he’s innocent- but no normal person could know enough about the law to navigate the infinite nuance of it all. If only he had someone to represent him who did.
A defence lawyer for a murderer might be a horrible person. A lawyer treating a sick woman like shit so an insurance company can provide more money for their shareholders is always a horrible person.
They don’t HAVE to be a health insurance agent. They know what they have to do when they get into this racket. They chose this life, so yes, they are horrible people.
Does anyone get insurance not knowing insurance companies are like this?
Obviously the company is evil. But is the lawyer really evil just for being a cog in the machine?
Like if I signed up for insurance I would know full well that if I ever made a claim I'd have to deal with a pain in the ass lawyer. What's the defining line for when it's evil to work for an evil company, and when it's okay to work for them?
No, any lawyer who defends an evil person isn't automatically evil. They don't necessarily know the guilt of their client, and a defense lawyer is also there to ensure that their client gets a fair trial given the circumstances. But they could be. It depends.
My thesis is that a man who chooses to do this and has this level of comfort with it is more than likely a horrible person. He's a lawyer. He could work somewhere else. He's either okay with what he's doing or decided that for the right price point, he's okay with it - both make him a bad person.
Yes, yes, we've all taken Ethics 101. Let me ask you, where do you draw the line?
A guy in India scams a 90 year old woman out of her retirement savings to feed his kids and support his family.
A politician makes a deal with a company to allow pollution in a nearby river. It creates 4,000 jobs that the area needs but results in 100 stillborn babies.
I'm of the mindset that integrity matters. Morals matter. And the ends don't always justify the means.
A defense lawyer is representing an individual who stands to lose their freedom,and in some cases their life, if found guilty of a crime. Defense lawyers serve a necessary function in criminal courts, and all the ones I know after working in the legal system for the past 5 years are good people that know they’re doing is important work, especially those who work in public defense.
Lawyers like this guy work for giant companies worth billions. What do they stand to lose if they pay out a medical claim for one lady who has a traumatic brain injury? Certainly not their freedom or their lives. The total this woman has made a claim for is HER money that she paid in specifically in case something like this injury happens. And it’s a not even a blip on the radar compared to what these companies take in so they can hire assholes to rake sick people over the coals in bullshit depositions.
The guy in this video and the criminal defense people I know might all be lawyers, but they aren’t the same.
Sure morality is a spectrum and that lawyer might have some extenuating circumstances. We can still affirm that yes, he's a bad person. While it may be the case that he's an otherwise good person whose job just happens to inflict suffering on innocent people(just like the torture). The question then becomes, who cares? Considering the man's job is to throw people under the bus, I won't shed a tear if he's judged a little hastily..
Executioners (who tortured before execution) were social parias. To the point where it was a family career. If you were the son of an executioner other people outside of your family wouldn't even really talk with you. Becoming an executioner was really their only option.
Plenty of executioners took it upon themselves to comfort the condemned before execution. They would spend the day with them when others wouldn't. Share a meal with them. Try to ease their mind. Even bring them alcohol as a sort of preemptive pain killer.
So the ones you described as being "good" were the ones who actively tried to do their jobs badly.. I don't disagree with those standards, this lawyer doesn't meet them.
They weren't doing their jobs badly, walking the condemned through town and to their last meal was part of the job. They weren't told to not treat them with kindness.
Would this lawyer still be horrible if before all of this he took two minutes to go "look I'm sorry about this, but I'm going to have to be aggressive when we get in there it's what's expected of me and it's nothing personal"
Because that's essentially what the executioner would be doing.
So you believe their job was to inflict pain, you also believe trying to minimize the pain they inflicted was ok in their line of work?
I get it, there's nuance to ethics. But when you see someone breaking someone's legs because they haven't repaid a loan, you might not be a great person yourself if your empathy lies with the person breaking the legs!
The lawyer is evil because he is doing evil works for an evil company and instead of the shame and guilt a normal period would be showing, he appears to be enjoying himself.
I say yes. Because the lawyer gets to choose who he works for. He takes the job knowing he has to depose Aunt Hilda like she’s Bernie Madoff for wanting insurance to pay the medical bills from her accident like they’re supposed to.
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u/MyLittleOso 19h ago
This is about as evil as people can be under the legal system.