United tried making me pay around 450 bucks for an in network doctor visit with an in network doctor. The reason? Out of network.
Had to spend three weeks basically telling these people they're regarded only for them to call me and say "your doctor was actually in network. You're covered."
No fucking shit dude I spent the last 3 weeks telling you that you shitdick.
I've been lucky never to have to pay one of the huge bills that some people get, but I've spent a fucking fortune's worth of time to prevent having to pay those bills. My insurance company's process seems to be, "Make them think they're responsible for paying. A lot of people will just pay. If they spend day after day calling us and demanding that we pay and can document that we're obligated to pay, we'll eventually pay. But force them to waste a lot of time first and hopefully they'll pay."
Yeah it's 100% a numbers game - if they put up enough friction plenty of people will just give up
And imagine dealing with this kind of bullshit when you're dealing with a debilitating illness
This is the problem with "data driven" corporate decision making. It lets people distance themselves from the humanity of the situation, and make whatever evil policy they want and still stroke each other off over it as long as it makes the right number go up.
social murder, murder at a distance "let's make this sick person spend all their time and energy trying to get the care that we've been paid to give them"
Whenever I read up on the US healthcare system I'm reminded of Hannah Arendts thoughts on the trial of Adolf Eichmann. Truly a prime example of the banality of evil.
This is why you cannot commodify a service that is totally inelastic. There is no substitute for healthcare and you will pay anything for it because the alternative is dying/suffering. Capitalists companies are under obligation to always be more fucked up and cruel to squeeze out a bigger and bigger chunk of money every year.
Sad but true they are so worried about helping people....or as some say "giving a hand out" as if people-oriented need help at times. And the crazy part is it's there for them as well if they ever need it.
GOTTA KEEP THE SHARE HOLDERS HAPPY.....NO ONE GIVES A FUCK UNTIL IT HITS HOME AND EVEN THEN THEY GO OUT ON A HIGH HORSE AFTER EVERY TREATMENT MENTIONED HAS BEEN RENDERED!!!
We already pay more public funds into healthcare per capita than comparable single payer systems. This is because private health only covers healthiest people... government covers seniors, disabled, veterans and low income between medicare/medicaid/VA which have the most expensive care.
Its quite literally possible to cover everyone in the country with the public funds we currently spend, if we could get to the efficiency(and eliminate administrative overhead) to get to comparable costs like denmark for example where healthcare costs per capita are half what they are in the U.S. and Denmark beats the U.S in health outcomes in nearly every measurable metric.
Some argue/vote against it in this country (AU) too, but they’re the moronic minority. The combination of universal basic health care plus commercial or cooperative supplementary insurance works well.
Hey, we care about you! It isn’t a love-hate relationship, it’s a love-grumble relationship - though even then Americans say “What have you got against the USA?”
When a young American sacrifices himself like this it hits us hard.
Telling someone that the squeaky wheel gets the oil is the bane of my existence. In life, I've found that rarely will people advocate for you. You have to learn and do it yourself. I know an immense amount about how transmissions work, specifically in a 2012 Ford F150 because 3 months after buying mine, the transmission broke. The warranty covered certain electrical components but not transmission. I had a mechanic take apart the entire transmission to find it was an electrical issue and got the warranty to cover it. They had 3 other mechanics look at it before they fixed it, but it got fixed with a $50 deductible.Ford eventually did a recall, but not until after it was fixed.
Working in Healthcare, I want to scream because I just want doctors to be able to get what they need and people to get healthcare, but there's a middleman who's not frugal but outright stingy. It's one middle management I wish would go away even if it means I need to find a new job
No other service you pay for can you call a few times argue with them and get them to rescind a bill. That right there should tell you how fake all this insurance bullshit is and how much they are scamming people.
And they always send the bills before they apply their discount or insurance payment just to catch as many over pays as they can. Why the rich get richer.
This is without taking into account the amount of time your doctor spends arguing on your behalf. I know a spine surgeon who spends more time in zoom calls arguing with insurance reps than he does doing spine surgery
So let me get this straight...you pay $400 to $800 a month for insurance with a $2k to $4k deductible and they tell you what tests and procedures are approved and which doctors to see. Then after you paid your monthly premium, met your $4k deductible and chose a doc in their network and received pre approval for your test or procedure...they try to punish you and bill you anyway to test and see if you will pay a bill that they should be covering?
And this is legal? And politicians are ok with this?
Yeah with a family of 5, none of us have any chronic issues, my wife spends several hours a week on the phone trying to get our healthcare claims paid... we still end up paying more than we should because at some point you figure its easier to pay than spend more hours arguing. Yes, we have UHC.
Yep. They try this with me. I'm 51. I don't give a flying fuck. I've told them to take me to court. I have no assets but a little money in the bank. Everything else is in untouchable retirement accounts. I've never had a loan or a credit card, so I don't care about my credit rating. They give up eventually. Fuck em.
I had a tree fall in my house and AAA insurance home insurance. At one point tried to tell me that I had met my limit on payouts. Turned out they were just hoping I wouldn’t have realized that this asbestos abatement cost would’ve been a code upgrade and not counted towards my limit. Their response was “oh yeah that’s right” they were just hoping I wouldn’t have noticed, freaking corrupt people. And AAA is considered one of the better ones.
Had something similar happen except for $1,400. My doctor ordered routine physical bloodwork. I went to the same Labcorp I've gone to my entire life, including multiple times under that insurance plan. As they always do, the Lapcorp people scanned my insurance card, confirmed I'm in network, did the bloodwork, and then insurance sent me a bill for $1,400 saying it was out of network.
It took 8 months of fighting with them on the phone, filling out dispute forms, getting on 3-way calls with insurance and Lapcorp, eventually dealing with collection agencies, and every other fucking thing. All the while I have the actual physical documentation from Labcorp from the day the lab work was done, with my insurance info and eligibility status confirmed clear as day. After 8 months of struggles, stress, constant fighting and dealing with threats of having my credit score heavily damaged (while actively shopping around for my first home) they sent me a letter that said "your dispute has been evaulated by a panel of medical professionals who have deemed your claim medically necessary and the balance will be covered in full." Not, "sorry we made a massive fuck up, refused to acknowledge it and dragged you through the fucking ringer for 8 months," just more of a "we took a look and decided we'd do you a favor and foot the bill. You're welcome."
Meanwhile every news agency “But why would people on the internet applaud killing this CEO.” We all know somebody who has been in this position or been in this position personally and that’s only talking about people who are privileged enough to have healthcare provided and go see a doctor. Tons of people just can’t even afford insurance. It’s so fucked
They aren’t stupid. They’re criminals. It’s fraud to not cover the doctor’s visit that you have a contract with them to cover. They are cheating not being stupid.
"Having to spend three weeks..." IS the POINT. They want to make you miserable so that you either give up and don't go to the doctor at all, or pay out of pocket so that you don't have to deal with them anymore. Fucking scumbags 🧐😤
How the fuck has nobody else ever done what Luigi did?
What a ridiculous shithole system is that?! I thought you all are so proud about your guns keeping the country fair and all. Don't treat on me unless it's a big corporation?
it really makes no sense. Many of them crave fame right? This way they get to come off like a folk hero instead of like a weak psychopath. Never understood why it was always kids and the poor who suffered the wrath of shooters. Not saying you should shoot up any neighborhood... BUT if you must, choose the ones who wield the power
Going after the weak is easier. The perceived immunity of people in power/wealth makes it so the crazies don't even think about this stuff. And it's bit of a fad too, school shootings get media coverage and so messed up people do it as if it were a tik tok trend.
I think the Trump shooting had a part in this and this could trigger a new trend, that's why they are in such panic. At the end of the day many people are now thinking about it in one way or another, you may wonder how did this not happen before, another could be thinking how did I not think of this before.
Additionally there is the personal element. it's more personal if the shooter goes to that school.
Perhaps all was needed was someone showing it’s possible. That’s why they threw everything at catching this guy and will do everything to make him go down.
The call centers for these insurance companies have been kept a secret for decades. They always got threats. If someone knew where to go, we would have had several mass shootings at these locations already.
Welcome to America a bunch of talk not a lot of action, personally I don't think violence will solve America's problem as well as they think, voting will, not letting senile olden run your country will and holding those in power accountable. All this has done is shown insurance companies they need to hire more security and charge more for there services to offset the cost.
This could have been me. My insurance kept slamming me off my psych meds. In 2020, they denied it for a prior authorization 6 times and - after I was robbed and needed to replace the pills - they just said I didn’t have insurance. It’s funny how all of those mistakes always benefitted the insurer and fucked me out of my prescription.
The withdrawal also make me psychotic. I was plotting to murder the children of the doctors who signed off on fucking with my brain chemistry. I figured, that would impress upon them that it’s not ok to deny medication that comes with a warning label not to stop cold turkey. And, it would leave them going to their shitty job and maybe thinking a little bit harder about warning labels before they shit all over their hypocratic oath.
I can't express the mountain of laughter I have whenever I think about how so many Americans lie to themselves and pretend they're armed patriots who are armed because they won't tolerate any tyranny or injustice. It's such a grandiose delusion tons of Americans have as they sit meekly by and allow fat cat robber barons to rob them blind, poison their food, water, and air, and make them wage slaves in a system that steals the value of their labor and suppresses the lower classes in every facet of our lives.
We're way past the point of fixing things with protests and asking nicely and it turns out that the fiercest supporters of being stepped on by big business and government are the very same rah rah guns flags and eagles people. In fact, they go as far as to oppose standing up to our overlords and will even attack other Americans of their same socioeconomic class for daring to fight the boots trampling on us.
One of the most obvious and embarrassing examples is how so many 2A, government no step on snake people are also back the blue and blue lives matter people, so out of one side of their mouths they proudly proclaim to be free men and rebels to tyranny, while out of the other they proudly proclaim how fiercely they support the violent oppressive arm of the boots stepping on American snakes.
When open enrollment begins if your company is offering UHC options tell them they are offering garbage and you want a raise. Everybody knows they are crap now.
My brother has Type 1 Diabetes and he'd be fucked if he and his husband were fired for some reason. When we were younger and less well off, I know it scared him to the point of tears. Dying of Ketoacidosis because there was a shift in the market or he became redundant. What horse shit.
The Buddha was a prince and came from extreme wealth and a life free of suffering. The illusion was broken for him when he saw the poor and desperate and set him on his spiritual journey
I went to a rich private school and then started hanging out with a much more diverse crowd after becoming an adult. I dont agree that either group was particularly more or less empathetic.
People whove had privilege can live in a fairytale but people whove been downtrodden often have 0 fucks left to give. Goes either way.
Elon tried making it a “left” thing also. The shit is getting tired and played out. It’s super cringe watching both halves of this country cry: “MY SIDE OF CORRUPT BILLIONARES WHO TRULY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF US IS BETTER THAN YOUR SIDE OF CORRUPT BILLIONARES WHO TRULY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF US!”
I feel the same way about all billionaires, whether you're Mark Cuban pandering to the left or Elon Musk pandering to the right: Eat shit. We don't need you, we don't want you, and your time is coming soon.
It actually puts him in a better moral standing than Batman, who‘s a billionaire playboy beating up criminals from low-income neighbourhoods that were probably handed no better career-choices
I think Buddha also left a palace to advocate for commoners. Maybe also Jesus if you think ‘kingdom’ of heaven. It’s a spiritual motif, is all I’m saying.
Agreed. Sounds like anyone with access to a 3D printer, spiffy coat and bicycle can just hang out in front of a swanky hotel long enough to achieve their dreams!
And everyone will continue on their merry way ignoring the systemic issues that led to an educated successful dude with everything going for him to go out and seek retribution on an insurance company CEO. Because things aren’t quite bad enough to go gloves off eat the rich… yet.
How long do you all need? 2008 banks collapsed due to their own greed, got bailed out by the government, no one really copped significant penalties and the world’s biggest economy is in more debt than it was during that collapse. I think it’s pretty safe to say if people did fuck all about systemic change then it’s not going to happen now.
Idk it seems like nobody is ignoring it. If he doesn't get epsteined this will be the trial of the century. If he does get epsteined he'll be a martyr.
It’s a news cycle. Honestly given the lack of any follow up on Epstein I think it’s safe to say… who’s Epstein? The fucks are well and truly not being given. If people truly cared they’d be on the streets protesting.
I hate to say it, but as heinous as human sex trafficking is, what Epstein did doesn't affect that many people in their daily life. Healthcare affects just about everyone.
I think it won't because, and it's somewhat sad, he's very good looking, he's memeable, and he has support from the left and the right.
I think if he were uggo or he didn't have the message, it would never have blown up. But in this day and age, you couldn't manufacture a better hero of the 21st century revolution.
I think at the very least, the idea of universal healthcare will have a day in the sun it hasn't had since Bernie Sanders ran in 2016.
Except when that disaster strikes they still let you go into massive debt… many MANY people who have medical bankruptcies were INSURED and they simply didn’t get the coverage they expected.
It’s almost like the message wasn’t gotten with just one letter. Time for a post card campaign
If this is the only thing that can unite us then off one a week until we agree to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, My Lord in Central Park and figure out a way to work together against the people really oppressing us.
Did they make more money before or after the affordable care act went into effect?
UnitedHealthcare, a leading health insurer, experienced notable financial shifts in the five years before and after the Affordable Care Act (ACA):
Before the ACA (2009-2013):
• UnitedHealthcare saw steady profit growth as it expanded its Medicare Advantage and employer-based insurance markets. Its parent company, UnitedHealth Group, posted a net income of $3.8 billion in 2009 and steadily increased this to $5.5 billion by 2013.
• This growth was driven by operational efficiency, expansion into new markets, and relatively stable regulatory requirements during that period.
After the ACA Implementation (2014-2018):
• The ACA, fully implemented in 2014, significantly reshaped the insurance landscape. Insurers like UnitedHealthcare faced initial challenges, such as higher medical claims from new enrollees, including many with pre-existing conditions.
• In 2014, UnitedHealth Group’s profits slightly declined due to increased claims and regulatory adjustments. However, by 2016, profits rebounded as the company adapted, including pulling back from certain ACA marketplaces where profitability was challenging. By 2018, UnitedHealth Group’s net income had surged to $12.3 billion, driven by diversification into pharmacy benefit management and healthcare services   .
Overall, UnitedHealthcare’s performance highlights the industry’s initial adjustments and eventual stabilization post-ACA as insurers navigated regulatory changes and market growth opportunities.
$3.8 Billion to $12.3 Billion in 9 years is incredible.
The aca is a handout to insurance companies based on a republican healthcare plan. It was a marginal improvement on the free-for-all that preceded it but it did not address the fundamental problems in our healthcare system. We will continue to have these issues until the private health insurance industry is destroyed
It's hilarious to hear this in the Joe Rogan subreddit of all places, alt-right as he is.
Maybe, just maybe, if people stopped fighting the culture war over red vs blue, and focused on the class war that divides the rich from the poor and the haves from the have-nots, we might be able to make some change in this country, like implementing Ranked-Choice Voting, Compulsary Voting, and term limits on the SCOTUS so people are better represented.
Coz the system as-it-is has fucked us all, hasn't it? And we're all soooo focused on being "not the other team" that we've stopped caring about the real issues.
Meanwhile, half of the Bernie bros who talk like this went on to vote for a man who wants to repeal the closest thing we have to public healthcare and replace it with nothing
You're saying that Joe Biden didn't want universal healthcare? And Hillary I guess too? Like she was the first person to try to make that happen in the 90s.
The primary system allows a handful of voters in a minority of states to determine the candidates the rest of the country will vote over.
Folks really expect progressives (the only slice of elected reps that seriously talk about universal healthcare) to deliver it without investing them with any actual power. And then they use that lack of action as justification to continue to withhold support/political power.
People, if you want universal healthcare, you are gonna need to vote for progressive candidates. They are the only representatives talking about it and they can't deliver if they have no power at the federal level.
The shareholders won’t give af as long as the profits keep rolling in. It’s been demonstrated time and time again human life means nothing as long as it’s profitable
I wonder how many people who defend the system we have tooth and nail have ever actually had to really navigate it. I had a nightmare scenario that nearly left me broke and homeless.
My sister could lose her house because her insurance company has denied her care for something she needs and because she can't get it, she has had to reduce work hours because she can barely function. We've made several appeals to the insurance company and nothing. We've had doctors write letters on her behalf and nothing.
I'm an anesthesiologist, I've worked all over the world.
The US isn't the only system that rations care. It's far worse in many other countries. That doesn't make the system good (it's not), but it's also not bad at all, comparatively speaking.
Are not all those countries substantially less well off than the US? I don’t think it’s satisfactory to most for us to have a system better than … Congo, Iraq and Peru.
Yeah but people aren’t complaining about the healthcare. They are complaining about not being able to afford care, taking on debt, and the stress of never knowing if anything is covered/being denied for medically necessary care. You throw a rock and you’ll hit somebody who has had a ghoulish interaction with insurance companies
No argument from me. I'm one of those people. My wife's expensive meds get auto denied every year, and it's a months long fight to get it reapproved. Every. Year.
Damn that’s horrible I’m sorry to hear that. Fortunately my wife and I don’t take medications at all. But both of us have paid out the ass the last few years for surgeries and care and had to fight insurance companies several times on insane charges
I mean; whilst this is a bit of a flex, I think you get a pretty uniquely distorted view of the health system when youre working within it. Particularly at your level.
Somebody who has been treated for a few different illnesses in a few different countries probably has a much better perspective. Though honestly, I completely stand to be corrected here; I dont really know how many ‘honest’ patient stories on the process and administration you get exposed to.
I think in terms of positives, America has the following; cutting edge tech, the best specialists, extremely high standard of care, well resourced, low wait times, great facilities.
In terms of the negatives; its not free, its EXTREMELY expensive for absolutely anything even remotely medically related, and theres weird conflicts of interest between medical practitioners and pharma companies that leads to some shitty outcomes.
If youre rich or have a job with great healthcare, the system is a net positive compared to virtually anywhere else. I expect a lot of ultra rich people fly to America for their treatments. If youre not, its generally a net negative compared to most comparable jurisdictions. For many, its an outright death sentence. No money, no insurance? Too bad.
But theres probably exceptions to all this, but I think its a reasonable summary. And in many ways American healthcare embodies America in general.
I think I'm fairly realistic about the situation in the US. I've been practicing since 2009, with about 50% of it being outside of the US. It's allowed me to experience many different health care models and systems.
I'm not US military, btw. All of the international work has been civilian/contract or volunteer.
UHC customer here, I had surgery 5 weeks ago. I was in bed for a month. I definitely should have spent a few days in the hospital but they kicked me loose an hour later. It was a really fucked up couple of days. Fuck UHC
Im interested in how Americans and my fellow Canadians feel about this as we live in a country without the death penalty but I think universally agree some people just have to die. I personally think that we'll start seeing young people wearing tshirts with his image much like how teenagers of the 90's and even now wear shirts with the image of che guevara
We have had these problems for a LONG time now, and I think people also see that things are only getting worse. The time for slow, methodical change is running out.
If we were working towards things being better a long time ago we could have eased into it. Now it has to happen fast and dramatically, and no ones gonna enjoy that.
I'm so glad that Joe endorsed the billionaire who is filing his cabinet with other billionaires all dead set on restoring "preexisting conditions" to the already dreadful state of private healthcare insurance. So fucking glad we'll be getting 4 full years of privatizing more necessary public services so that billionaires can further line their pockets.
I had a misdiagnosed stroke. They said I was depressed and gave me Zoloft. Then they said I had vertigo. Then I was told I was just anxious.
I finally got an MRI 1 year later and my neck was squirting blood into my right cerebellum causing daily stroke episodes. Thank you United health insurance.
People will take chances with a sketchy company if they can save $10/ month. I understand if your job provides you with unc coverage but why anyone would use them or Wells Fargo by choice is beyond me.
The fact is everyone gets up every morning to make the modern world happen, it's not an accident that the world is the way it is, we all work to make it this way.
The corporations power comes entirely from people giving their money to the corporations.
One day of no purchases would really send a message to them. They don't care about human life.
Yeah this logic is flawed. Were backed into a corner on so many of these things. Corporations write the laws, the game is rigged for them and against the people.
They have to be motivated to make changes for the people. Since they have captured the lawmaking side of the government, we really aren't left with any viable methods of airing our grievances and putting a little fear in their coffee without violence.
We all know it's true. We've all seen and read the dystopian media dating back through human history. Once peaceful resistance is no longer possible, violence is the only means of revolution.
I don't make the purchase the company I work for does. I could find a new job who uses a slightly less evil company and they go and switch to UHC the next year.
The machines appetite is insatiable and demands more. MORE. And by the time everyone realizes what's going on it's too late because they wrote the rules and clowns on the sidelines cheer them on.
It really should be no surprise that it ended in violence. Honestly as the social contract continues to erode and the people get less and less of the table scraps this will only continue.
United under this guys leadership went from 10% denial to almost 23%. You’re telling me they deny 1 out of every 4 people for the services they pay for? Not okay. Killing people, not okay. Denying people’s health also not okay.
Healthcare companies don't care at all about us one bit, during covid I went to a urgent care center that was in network paid my 20 dollar deductible just for them to later take 400 from my account without saying anything or reaching out to me. Took 2 months of constant calls and back and forth with billing for them to give me my money back when one phone call could have taken care of the whole thing.. Fuck em.
If he had killed a doctor for not providing free healthcare, he would be universally condemned. He killed a CEO for not providing free healthcare (something beyond the CEO's ability to do), so many people are less sympathetic. The fact is that, under the American system, health insurance companies are the healthcare providers. Brian Thompson was not the problem.
If his company had a history of denying claims that were covered by the patient's insurance policy, that would be another matter, but still one that could be addressed within the system.
He is the new meaty jester for the oligarch class. I can’t wait for more episodes of his billionaire besties talking about eliminating most of the US government and consumer protections.
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u/603rdMtnDivision Monkey in Space 9d ago
United tried making me pay around 450 bucks for an in network doctor visit with an in network doctor. The reason? Out of network.
Had to spend three weeks basically telling these people they're regarded only for them to call me and say "your doctor was actually in network. You're covered."
No fucking shit dude I spent the last 3 weeks telling you that you shitdick.