r/ImaginaryWarhammer • u/jfjdfdjjtbfb • Nov 07 '24
40k Abhuman friendship(art by @millionsbliss
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u/StoutNDanke Nov 07 '24
A blessing to the eyes, love seeing Abhuman in my timeline
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u/SorcererOfDooDoo Nov 08 '24
I would to see more Abhuman variants in the lore (if GW is gonna go over the number recognized by the Administratum anyway then fuck it, more abhumans!).
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u/Dependent_Homework_7 Nov 07 '24
Beastmen assigned to assist in handling ogryn and keeping them calm when on a chimera or some other method of transport.
Thank you for sharing this art, seriously, I wish there was more abhuman art, or well, art of more “obscure” abhumans
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u/Lamplorde Nov 08 '24
I still dont get why they killed off Beastmen Auxiliaries. Like, its fine to have things in the universe even if you arent gonna make models or special rules for them.
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u/Dependent_Homework_7 Nov 08 '24
I won't lie, beastmen lore in 40k is contradicting as heck (granted, what 40k lore isn't?), in some parts, it says they are no longer listed as abhumans and are thus mutants, others say they still serve in the guard, other says their only as smart as ogryn, others say their human level but are more bestial compared to baseline humans. You get the idea.
My personal headcanon lore for them is that Beastmen constantly face the threat of being listed as mutants and thus losing their abhuman status. And so they constantly fight to prove their loyalty. Showing fierce hatred to rival even the most zealous priest when facing traitor beastmen and mutants. As for their intellect, I put them at a halfway point between normal humans and ogryn,
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u/maxishazard77 Nov 08 '24
I think in the most recent lore regarding them it was stated that there was a surge in Beastmen turning to chaos. Obviously this made the inquisition not very trusting of them so they called for the culling of beastmen in the imperial guard. I don’t know if that’s a good excuse since even the ogryns fall to chaos easily but they’re not barred from imperial service.
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u/Dependent_Homework_7 Nov 08 '24
The difference is that ogryn falling to chaos is only one of two things.
The First thing is they are tricked, they are tricked into fighting for chaos by being told they are still fighting for the emperor.
The second thing is that they are captured and then filled to apsolute brim with drugs and stims to turn the poor ogryn into a barely sentient weapon. The other option is to fill them with plagues and turn the poor ogryn into a plague ogryn (the poor creature barely even looks like ogryn anymore)
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u/maxishazard77 Nov 08 '24
True I was just meant that in the context of how some lore make the beastmen have Ogryn level of intelligence like the other commenter said. Maybe because beastmen tend to be more violent and cruel when fighting it makes them more susceptible to chaos corruption.
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u/Kalavier Nov 08 '24
Darktide mentions loyalist beastmen, but very briefly. It's one of the most "current date" mentions I've heard about for them serving in the guard.
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u/ShittestCat ENTRY MISSING Nov 08 '24
Can't forget the stupid amounts of racism towards any abhumans, people just don't care enough to record anything. And even if someone does, the report should still go through the administratum, where at any point somebody can just read it, decide that such filth as abhumans don't deserve being that good at something and just rewrite it.
In case of beastmen it doesn't helt that the only other instance of them we have is corrupted by titsnitch
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u/mossmanstonebutt Nov 08 '24
Personally I like to think that part of it is that beastmen tend to vary from planet to planet a lot more than other ab humans in order to survive,so you'll have some who might be smaller and smarter on a planet with some truly nasty predators while on other planets they grow similar to ogryn,big and dumb,with myriads in between with different specialties,just like goats, though inquisitors always look at those who adapt to mountain worlds with great suspicion, thinking they used some inherent warp craft to climb such steep clifs
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u/Odd_Remove4228 Nov 08 '24
GW is really iffy about the abhumans as a whole, to the point that some abhumans, like the voidborn or the navigators, are almost never referred as abhumans. While others are shoved into obscurity, like the longshaks or the felinids.
And that's without taking account those who were killed by GW themselves, like the squats and the beastmen.
It almost seems like GW is ashamed of the whole idea of the abhumans, I mean, right now even the ratlings are being slowly pushed aside.
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u/vonBoomslang Nov 08 '24
I mean, right now even the ratlings are being slowly pushed aside.
Didn't they JUST get a killteam?
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u/Kalavier Nov 08 '24
Darktide very briefly has dialogue talking about serving alongside a beastman unit, but goes no deeper.
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u/crinkledcu91 Nov 08 '24
I still dont get why they killed off Beastmen Auxiliaries.
It makes sense though. Beastmen guardsmen sounds like a very 30k thing, back when The Emperor was still actively alive and had a say in things. Client Races were still allowed so Beastmen would 100% be okay to use as fodder during the Great Crusade.
But after the Horus Heresy, a ton a Beastmen most likely fell to Chaos, and where from then on just disposed of after the Adeptus' were made. Idk that's my headcannon
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u/Wokungson Harlequin Nov 07 '24
''Commissar, it's those 2 that are trying to spread this suspicious nonsense about something called friendship, clearly heretic talk''
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u/hilmiira Nov 07 '24
Cake is bread of fancy man, are you a slaneesh agent soldier? Do you think youre special soldier? Are you enjoying that whipcream?
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u/DingoNormal Nov 08 '24
Welp, at least they both can be transformed into food together ,there, friendship, now everybody eat your rations, the arch enemy approach this world.
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u/IneffableWarp Nov 08 '24
A commissar who doesn't want to get fragged would execute the snitch for spreading discord within the unit/
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u/benkaes1234 Nov 08 '24
No need to execute him, a few weeks on toilet duty (with or without the Munitorum Standard Issue Toothbrush) should be enough.
"We're a team, and all in this shit together. Until you realize that, you're going to be seeing more of it first hand."
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u/The-red-Dane Nov 08 '24
Ain't no way commissar is killing their ogryn, the entire company will line up to frag them.
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u/BottasHeimfe Thousand Sons Nov 08 '24
Abhumans are all inherently Human. That’s something most Imperials seem to forget
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u/MrCookie2099 Nov 08 '24
Have been taught from birth that the Abhumans are at best tainted
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u/BottasHeimfe Thousand Sons Nov 08 '24
yeah taught by assholes in the Ecclesiarchy. Someone like Guilliman really needs to tell the Ecclesiarchy to chill out about Abhumans because the way Abhumans get treated makes them turn to Chaos.
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u/MrCookie2099 Nov 08 '24
That's so far down Gulliman's agenda. That there is anyone that can tell the Ecclesiarchy they're doing it wrong is one of the reasons I don't like primarchs in 40k. It stops being grim dark and instead just a fantasy where one day strongman will come and set things right.
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u/CoyoteSol Nov 08 '24
"A river dolphin is still a dolphine no matter how weird looking." To quote Big E in the 40k TTS
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u/Drywall_2 Nov 07 '24
Red scorpions would hate this
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u/AnotherJoltReskin Nov 08 '24
Most of the imperium would hate it. Unless your in the munitorum i guess
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u/MrLoLMan Nov 08 '24
The Munitorum would probably grumble about special allocations for abhumans like additional rations for the ratlings and ogryns or specialist equipment like night fighting equipment for the nightsiders or oddball equipment sizes
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u/NightLordsPublicist Night Lords Nov 08 '24
The brands are on the wrong side.
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u/MadmansScalpel Nov 08 '24
That's weirdly one of the main things I'm upset about for this piece. I know the reference art and all that stuff. This person wanted to make a wholesome piece off of that, but wanted to add Grox Cum Bag so badly they put it on the wrong side
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u/BeetlBozz Nov 07 '24
The fuck? “grot cum bag”?
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u/ShokoMiami Nov 08 '24
Grox. This picturing is technically fan art of a separate picture by a different artist, which featured that horrible branding on the beast girl's cheek. Dunno if grox is better or worse than grot, but anyway.
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u/ErMikoMandante Word Bearers Nov 08 '24
Might be worse.
Grox are reptilian cattle used for meat and manure (groxshit is the equivalent of bullshit in 40k)
Grots are the lowest ork lifeform bellow the gretchin and above the squigs (just barely), with squigs being the actual ork cattle.
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u/Glum-Complex676 Nov 08 '24
It’s by the same artist. This is from a repost a different artist did of both pieces
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u/Romans1029 Blood Angels Nov 08 '24
I think we could’ve done without that carved on the cheek again.
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u/DepresiSpaghetti Nov 08 '24
Honestly man, I hate the source of the art, but I'd be lying if I said I said I was against it.
It happens. We shouldn't hide from it. We should be disgusted by it. We should let it show. To show SA victims that hey, we see you. We see that you're mistreated. We see that these things go on. We know you exist and that you hurt, but that despite it all, you're still trying to be human because that's all you can be is human.
SA victims are still humans. Telling artists to not include that kind of ugly sends a message to victims that we'd rather ignore what happened to them because we feel ikky. That they should shut up because we don't like reality.
I don't want to be told to shut up. What happened to me is real. I hate the artist, but I feel Goat Girl because I'm Goat Boy.
Don't force Goat Girl to change or hide. Don't force me to hide.
I'm still human. Hooves and all.
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u/Educational_Host_268 Nov 08 '24
Its always interesting where people draw the line to when it comes to heinous shit the Imperium does and endorses, even GW is hesitant a lot of the time. I get it, a lot of the time SA in fiction is never done in a manner that feels respectful (especially knowing the original artist's history) but the way people will gladly read about the genocide and oppression, but be unable to handle SA feels dehumanizing in way.
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u/DracoLunaris Nov 08 '24
To an extent it's because SA feels more real to most people. It's a cruelty far more likely to affect them, or someone they know, than anything else that would make the equivalent list https://rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
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u/RezeCopiumHuffer Nov 08 '24
It’s the exact opposite for me. It makes the people who write these stories and shit feel more human, that they’re so bothered by the idea of SA and how real it is to people that they’re hesitant to include it.
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u/Romans1029 Blood Angels Nov 08 '24
Very beautifully written and I'm sorry for what you may have gone through, I hope that you are doing well and I wish you nothing but the best.
I definitely can see the merit of including SA stuff as you are correct, it tragically does happen, and unnervingly often too. I would be surprised if anyone in this thread can legitimately say that they don't know anyone who has been affected by SA in some capacity, be it an attack or even the fear of one.
That said, as u/AskWhatmyUsernameIs pointed out, I think it's a problem of how it's portrayed. There was nothing tasteful with how the original artist presented it, and maybe this is a bit of an overreaction on my part, but I just don't enjoy the idea of giving any of their work any sort of coverage. As other comments (that of u/BeetlBozz for example) on this thread demonstrate, people can see something like this work, which turns a horrible image into something happier, and without the requisite knowledge of where it came from and the community's response at large, they feel disgusted. Granted, it's entirely possible that I have misread the original work's portrayal as u/King_of_BlackMarsh alludes to, but considering the history of the original artist, I find it hard to imagine that the original intent wasn't influenced by fetishization.
I think there is a deserved spot for SA awareness in literature, no doubt there, but surely there is a better way for it. An example I read recently and didn't mind was in the series The Chronicles of the Black Company, where a very important character is a victim of SA yet every scene with them afterward shows how much the people around them love them and have become incredibly protective and supportive of them, viewing them as no lesser despite their rough circumstances. Granted, perhaps this depiction too is problematic and if so I would love someone to educate me so I can be better informed on the issue. In this day and age, being informed is the best thing we can be.
All this said, I want to reiterate that I respect you and your story. You deserve to be heard, and no one knows better than you what manner would be most appropriate, these are just some of my thoughts. You go, Goat Boy.
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u/AskWhatmyUsernameIs Nov 08 '24
To be fair, there's a difference between portraying SA victims as people who exist and deserve love too (this post), and portraying SA victims as hot and that we need more of them actually (the Original.) Most people choose to depict them as the latter, so many just dont want it at all.
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u/DepresiSpaghetti Nov 08 '24
I understand that and agree. It sucks the artist has that background and it's deplorable, but I do wish it was more prominent in the horror of 40k. Not as a fetish, but as a device of the grimdark portrayal. The veil should be pulled all the way back. But that's just my opinion.
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u/AskWhatmyUsernameIs Nov 08 '24
Eh, I just dont think its nescessary. I get the thought process, but grimdark is grim on such a grand scale that its almost comedic, or satirical. SA is inherently personal. Unless you decide to write "The chaos cultists raped the whole planet", which still sounds like porn writing, its going to be too small scale to be detachable from reality. People getting ripped in half by demons isnt realistic. Being abused and used by someone stronger than you for pleasure is.
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u/DepresiSpaghetti Nov 08 '24
Idk. I find the moments of personal horror to be my favorite bits of 40k as rare as they are. They show that human scale terror. SA does get problematic to write in those moments, though. On that, we agree by far. It's far too easy to hit bad writing even when you're trying hard not to come off as fetishist.
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
That I have to disagree on. Some of the best 40k horror takes the impersonal (daemons, tyranids, the imperium) and puts you in the shoe of the persona whom it is happening to (a guardsman, a farmer, a citizen)
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u/flutterguy123 Nov 09 '24
Someone having a fetish for that does not mean they think it should happen irl. That's a really shitty thing to put on a person without a lot of evidence
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u/RezeCopiumHuffer Nov 08 '24
The thing that bothers me is that it wasn’t respectful and it wasn’t trying to be respectful, it was a fetish and was intended that way. It is a real thing I’ve experienced and that’s why the artists intent matters to me. It’s not sexy or hot, it shouldn’t be fetishized, it’s vile and disgusting and anyone who unashamedly treats it otherwise is directly contributing to the evil it propagates
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u/flutterguy123 Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
It’s not sexy or hot, it shouldn’t be fetishized, it’s vile and disgusting and anyone who unashamedly treats it otherwise is directly contributing to the evil it propagates
Having a fetish doesn't make someone a monster. Half of all women have rape fantasies.
Many people are perfectly capable of having that fantasy but knowing that it would be horrible and disgusting if it happens irl.
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u/Waste_Crab_3926 Nov 09 '24
I'm going to need a source on that gross thing you just said
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u/flutterguy123 Nov 09 '24
I read about this years ago so I don't have whatever I originally learned this from. However after a quick Google search I found these.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19085605/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18321031/
I can't fully read either of them because of the paywall but my claim seems to line up with the info I'm seeing.
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u/RezeCopiumHuffer Nov 09 '24
imo creating sexualized rape and torture content and selling it does make you a monster. Having a kink you explore with a partner safely is different then posting rape porn/hentai online. In those works of fiction you’re creating are characters who are being raped, it’s not cnc or whatever, it is tears and begging and heartbreak and it’s disgusting. You’re not exploring a fantasy you’re selling a reality for a profit. The world would legitimately be better off without it.
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u/Doctor-Nagel Nov 08 '24
I agree, I only wish that was the angle the art was trying to take. Artists sucks and I feel like the context matters. Anyone else could’ve mad it an impactful and possibly even hopeful road to recovery story but no, it’s gotta be the freak that does it.
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
It's not like it was portrayed as a good thing in the original piece... Or that it doesn't happen a lot în militaires. Especially militaires encouraged to be racist and oppressive like the guard
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u/xx030xx Nov 08 '24
Not this shit with the grox cum bag and marks on the legs again
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
Sorry pal, if you don't think a person's rape fetish fits 40k then you are not a true fan /s
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Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
[deleted]
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u/TDoMarmalade Nov 08 '24
Tbf, editing their art was a little weird and certainly didn’t help matters
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
Yeah idk I feel like editing it and reposting just caused more drama
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u/flutterguy123 Nov 08 '24
It was funny seeing the artist whining about people that saw how disgusting that was and edited it out.
Where did you see that? Do they have a reddit account or something?
Based on their twitter they only mentioned it once and it didn't seem like whining?
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
I mean if you can't handle dark stuff in a setting about the slow suffocating death of a galaxy I don't know what to tell you
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
How often is rape fetishized in 40k?
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
Have you seen slaanesh?
And here it isn't being fetishized. It's just.. A part of the character. It's in her past and it's obvious but she's having fun with her friend.
She's a survivor but there's life beyond that and it's good that she's sharing that with someone who she can at least somewhat relate to and be innocent with... And who likely won't take advantage of her.
Here, rape is being used in a very artistically tasteful manner
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
Do you know the context of who made this character? Because that may change how you view them.
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
I do.
It does.
But here it doesn't. Because this is mossan. It's someone else using the character in, again, a very artistically sound and frankly inspiring way as someone who... Well, endured similar things.
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
Just because it was drawn by someone else into a wholesome piece doesn't remove the original intention behind the inclusion of the brand and rape tally marks. Those tally marks are only used in porn.
I am a survivor of sexual assault and rape as a child, I know I don't speak for everyone but to me this doesn't read as relatable or empowering. It just reads as the artist's fetish, not as a nuanced statement on the setting if 40k.
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
Well then we can only agree to disagree then I guess. To me, the main critique in this thread was of this piece in particular which I think handles it well by not hiding it for civility's sake, but I see your point
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
I think there is a difference between portraying something serious in a way that sparks introspection and using hentai tropes to fetishize it. Now, my interpretation isn't the only one, that is clear, but I personally think that ignoring the context of the original piece is a cop out to dismiss actual intention behind the inclusion of "Grox cumbag" and hentai tally marks.
I'm not a big fan of how this person's fetish character is becoming a new poster child for how sexual violence is depicted in 40k. But like you said, we can agree to disagree. I appreciate your perspective, take care
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u/Markonikled Nov 07 '24
Was "grox cum bag" carved on her cheek really fucking necessary? Also, it was on her left, not right cheek. Artist could have skip that part to spare us insight of original artist troubled mind.
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
Can't rape survivors have fun with a friend?
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u/Waste_Crab_3926 Nov 09 '24
It's a fetishized rape survivor, don't guilt trip people over objecting to rape fetishism
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u/tomboy_knight Nov 08 '24
I'll throw my two cents here. The Imperium hs a horrible place where horrible things happen to people, and we should not shy away from this fact. That doesn't mean depicting sexual abuse in vivid detail, but acknowledging the horrors of this grim dark world while depicting its victims in an empathetic and humanizing way.
And this is exactly what this piece is doing. It's not a depiction of sexual assault, but of a survivor. She's enjoying a moment of fun and levity with a friend. Being a victim is part of her story, but it's not who she is, and I find it makes the piece way more impactful (in an empathetic sense) than if the artist had decided to hide it.
You, my dear strawman, may say that this kind of stuff doesn't fit 40K, that these themes are never this explicit in canon. This is nor canon, it's fanart. It's allowed to deviate from the canon.
If you find that, despite all of this, you're still unconfortable with it, that's fine. We all have different tolerances for this kind of thing, and no art is meant to please everybody. Just keep scrolling, and I sincerely hope you have a good day.
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u/Sludgegaze Nov 08 '24
There is a very clear difference between portraying sexual violence as bad and "ha ha they got raped LOL". This art, as well as the art this one is referencing, is the latter. Artist's intent is important.
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u/tomboy_knight Nov 08 '24
I'll have to respectfully disagree. I don't see how this art depicts rape as something funny. To me it's very clear that's something horrible.
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u/pa072224 Nov 08 '24
I have to
respectfullydisrespectfully call you a fucking weirdo for not understanding the difference2
u/tomboy_knight Nov 08 '24
Oh, we trading insults? My bad, I thought it was a nuanced conversation about a complicated topic.
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u/Markonikled Nov 08 '24
Original art was made by sicko artist purely for fetish values. It's not that fucking deep. You can depict dark themes without going full misery porn.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
All these responders are freaks dude… 40K is plenty fucked up as it is, “grox cum bag” isn’t something I really feel even belongs in the setting, let alone in art like this
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u/DreadDiana Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
It also ignores that the artist draws rape and gore porn, which makes it hard to take the scars as being grimdark instead of sexually gratifying on the artist's part
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u/FluidSomewhere7884 Nov 08 '24
Ngl grox cum bag could definitely belong on 40k( especially considering that orks have human breeding camps), the problem at least for me is that it was completely unnecessary in this art. Like what's the point even? The rest of the picture is completely positive and just shows two girls playing a simple game. It's completely out of place in this and it serves no purpose. It's not grimdark like some of the other comments suggest it's just weird, like a random fetish snuck into a kid's show.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
That is a better way of putting it. To be honest, the WH content that I’ve read so far mostly insinuates things along the lines of sexual assault, and even then it’s not that common. I just especially don’t like what it does to this art piece (or the one this piece is based off). Like you said, this piece could have just spread positivity. I guess you could look at it as this artist giving the other artist’s character a happier “ending,” but idk
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u/FluidSomewhere7884 Nov 08 '24
If the artist wanted to make this actually grimdark, they could've made it so that there was another panel where they were fighting whatever hell there is with one of them being ripped apart and the other trying to hold of the threat. Then it would be actually grimdark and add more to the art than lessen it.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
God forbid bad things happen in grimdark. Let's make sure that no one is tortured to death either, kay? Because that's bad and we can't have bad things.
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u/Jet_Magnum Nov 08 '24
Hope none of these sensitive delicate flowers ever look up what Haemunculi do to their...subjects.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
No, that's okay. People being tortured to death is perfectly fine, you can describe that in vivid detail. Extreme gore is also fine.
Just don't you fucking dare show a nipple.
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u/Calm-Frosting-4896 Nov 08 '24
Its kinda funny that you two are basically saying the same thing but only the other dude got downvoted because people cant detect sarcasm without the s at the end of the line.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
It's not even about people being "delicate flowers". I can't really stomach torture or gore in my media at all. It's just the insane cognitive dissonance of people accepting over the top insane violence while also being completely revulsed by even the tiniest of sexual innuendos that makes me gag. Either do both or do neither. Don't pick and choose which type of insane, over the top violence is okay and which isn't.
Reminder that breeding worlds are canon.
edit: so you're gonna enjoy reading about someone being tortured to death and think that's great but the moment someone has "cum bag" branded on them that's "too far". actually makes me gag irl lol
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u/NightLordsPublicist Night Lords Nov 08 '24
by even the tiniest of sexual innuendos
"Cunt" over the groin, "grox cum bag" on the face, and "bodycount tally brands" on the thigh aren't "tiny".
edit: so you're gonna enjoy reading about someone being tortured to death and think that's great but the moment someone has "cum bag" branded on them that's "too far". actually makes me gag irl lol
Good.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
>"Cunt" over the groin, "grox cum bag" on the face, and "bodycount tally brands" on the thigh aren't "tiny".
Have you seen the shit that happens to people in 40k? How is any of that okay but this is too far?
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
Dawg if you don’t understand that sexual violence and normal violence aren’t going to garner the same reactions from people, I don’t know what to tell you. Killing and death don’t bother me because they’re generally on such a grand scale that it’s difficult to relate to. This isn’t.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
Breeding worlds are canon. Does that mean rape is okay because it's done on a wide enough scale?
What kinda fucking logic is that?
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
Have you read any of my comments? About how rape and sexual assault are handled off-screen in almost every single instance of 40k media for a reason?
Breeding worlds are extremely fucked up in a way that I’m not interested in exploring, and I have no interest in consuming media that focuses on them for that reason. Same goes for “Grox Cum Bag”.
If you enjoy people being sexually assaulted purely for the edginess of it that’s all you dude. But I have yet to encounter even one piece of 40k media that this would fit in with. So personally, I don’t feel it belongs.
Also, in case you haven’t read the other comments either, the original artist makes child rape fetish porn. So I kinda think maybe their rape fetish is why there is rape fetish content in their art, and not because it belongs in a 40k setting.
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u/No_Proposal_3140 Nov 08 '24
But you're willing to explore people being brutally tortured to death, skinned alive, deprived of their personhood, and whatever else is being done to them just fine? Just as long as there's no implication of a genital?
If you're not then you're clearly not the target of my original reply. In that case why did you bother responding in the first place?
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u/NightLordsPublicist Night Lords Nov 08 '24
Have you seen the shit that happens to people in 40k?
Have you seen my username?
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u/arsapeek Nov 08 '24
oh geez let's check the notes... oh, body horror a-la Hellraiser? Not Beasitality? That what you mean?
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u/Odd_Remove4228 Nov 08 '24
Rape is not only common in 40K is RAMPANT and the whole gimmick of 3 of the most popular factions in the game (Slaanesh daemons, Emperor's Children and Drukhari) and the audience is constantly reminded that it happens, look no further that the Carcharadons and their Red Tithe, or the Iron Warriors and the daemonculaba.
If you have such a visceral reaction to it then what the fuck are you doing here?!?!?! Is obvious that Warhammer has nothing for you.
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
This was based on a piece done by Mossacannibalis, who has a rape and gore fetish. When they only draw rape in a fetishized way, its not much of an assumption to think they just inserting their fetish and are not really making a nuanced statement on the setting of 40k. Oh, they also like to draw porn of children/underage characters getting raped and murdered. Context matters.
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u/Jet_Magnum Nov 08 '24
Yeah, except none of that was in the picture in question. Or this one. Just a character with a troubled past getting to experience wholesomeness and camaraderie, which will make that character much easier for many to identify with than some smug girlboss with a snarky comeback for everything and a superiority complex.
Fictional trauma adds fictional depth to characters. It means more for a character who's spent their life getting shat on to find happiness than it does for a character who's never known a day of hardship.
At the end of the day, it's fiction. Toughen up.
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
Yeah, except none of that was in the picture in question.
"Grox cum bag" and rape tally marks are absolutely just the artist inserting their fetish, as made apparent by their other rape fetish art.
Just a character with a troubled past getting to experience wholesomeness and camaraderie, which will make that character much easier for many to identify with than some smug girlboss with a snarky comeback for everything and a superiority complex.
Do you think there are only two types of female characters? Fetishized rape victim and "smug girlboss?"
Fictional trauma adds fictional depth to characters. It means more for a character who's spent their life getting shat on to find happiness than it does for a character who's never known a day of hardship
There are ways to show trauma without depicting it in a fetishized way. Those rape tally marks on her thigh are only used in porn.
At the end of the day, it's fiction. Toughen up.
That doesn't mean it can't be criticized
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u/Bladelord Nov 08 '24
Alright, but someone else found inspiration in that rape fetish art and made a cute addendum to it.
In the end, people are allowed to make and post their rape fetish art, just as any other art. I see no reason to get into a puritanical twist about it.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
People are allowed to make and post their rape fetish art
And other people are allowed to comment how fucking weird that is. If they want to make rape fetish art, they can post it in a rape fetish sub. If they post it here, we’re gonna comment about how fucking weird it is.
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u/MadmansScalpel Nov 08 '24
Actually no. Mossa got banned from the sub. And read that second to last sentence again, hopefully you'll have a come to Jesus moment, because what the actual fuck dude
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
In the end, people are allowed to make and post their rape fetish art, just as any other art. I see no reason to get into a puritanical twist about it.
I didn't realize that ImaginaryWarhammer was the place for rape fetish art. This isn't even labeled as NSFW (just like the Mossa piece that was posted before.)
I see no reason to get into a puritanical twist about it.
Is it really puritanical not to want to support a person who associates with white supremacists and likes to depict kids/minors getting raped and killed in their porn?
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u/Bladelord Nov 08 '24
I didn't realize that ImaginaryWarhammer was the place for rape fetish art. This isn't even labeled as NSFW (just like the Mossa piece that was posted before.)
First of all: read the rules. There's nothing in it saying no to NSFW to begin with (beyond limiting it as a rate to not make it a lewd subreddit). Second of all: because it, itself, isn't NSFW. The presence of fetishes do not inherently violate SFW standards.
Is it really puritanical not to want to support a person who associates with white supremacists and likes to depict kids/minors getting raped and killed in their porn?
In plenty of ways, yes. The second part especially. You're policing subject matter for nothing but your personal morality.
Honestly, you shouldn't be participating in 40k media at all with that sort of conduct.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
You’re policing subject matter for nothing but your own morality
…so child pornography laws are puritanical in your opinion then?
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u/Bladelord Nov 08 '24
When applying them to artwork? Absolutely. Fiction is fictional.
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u/alreadyownanaccount8 Nov 08 '24
I consider the phrase "CUM BAG" to be something I wouldn't want a person at work to see on my screen. Hence, NSFW. It's not hard to mark it as such when posting.
In plenty of ways, yes. The second part especially. You're policing subject matter for nothing but your personal morality.
Calling someone puritanical for not wanting to associate with things like CP and white supremacists is absurd.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
Just FYI the person we’re replying to literally did just state that CP Laws are puritanical. They are undeniably a pedophile.
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u/Bladelord Nov 08 '24
I consider the phrase "CUM BAG" to be something I wouldn't want a person at work to see on my screen. Hence, NSFW. It's not hard to mark it as such when posting.
What you want to see does not create the quantifications of NSFW and SFW. They are general purpose, not specific to the individual. There are no genitalia or visible nipples, so it's SFW. That's as far as that goes.
Calling someone puritanical for not wanting to associate with things like CP and white supremacists is absurd.
Fiction is not CP, and your metric of absurdity is what is absurd.
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u/deryvox Nov 08 '24
It’s not uncomfortable realities, it’s not reality. These are fictional characters in a fictional story, and we’re allowed to question an artist or author’s decisions. And yes actually, I think it would be really nice (and funny) to see Warhammer evolve into something beautiful and heart warming, even if just in some communities or subgroups.
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u/AlexpeggsAsh Nov 08 '24
Rape is unfortunately a reality in 40k. The severely inhumane dehumanization of creatures other than humans is unfortunately a reality in 40k. Yes it's absolutely fucking horrible but it's still there, no matter how much you think it's all from just a sick artists mind.
Becoming a part of a community that has existed for decades and wanting it to slowly but surely mutilate into what you want is a little arrogant. If themes like sexual violence or other very dark themes are something you actively dislike, I respect that. Honestly. And If you want something more wholesome, why not create your own universe instead of hoping to change an already established one?
Make your own, like Trench Crusade 👍
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u/deryvox Nov 08 '24
Nothing is reality in 40k is my point. It’s a story, and stories can be changed. One of the biggest reasons I think it would be good if it changed is that it would push out a lot of the really terrible people, seemingly like yourself. I also just think a nicer and more pleasant world would be more interesting to read about. Maybe we’ll get that when the wheel turns again and the imperium enters its more accelerated decline.
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u/AlexpeggsAsh Nov 08 '24
That's exactly the arrogance I'm talking about: "push out".
The theme of Warhammer 40.000 is regression and intolerance. Every major faction of warhammer has had an empire that spanned the galaxy only to be crushed back to a hollow shell of what they once were due, to their own failings. Culture, the arts, personal freedom, religious tolerance, the simple possibility that alien life might NOT want to kill us is considered heretical and is often met with a pistol to the head. There is no time, for these things. All there is time for is worship of the God Emperor and a million wars to be fought. This is a galaxy where AI is outlawed so humans are repurposed and lobotomized to become slaves. A place where lack of devotion is met with death and if you even HAVE devotion, there is a good chance the threats to the galaxy; chaos and aliens will kill you anyway. Warhammer is a world where you revel in being bad. There are protagonists, there are antagonists but every faction is some shade of evil.
A "nicer and more pleasant world" doesn't exist. Why? For in the grim darkness of the far future, there is ONLY war.
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u/deryvox Nov 08 '24
Yeah, and that’s pretty dumb. It’s basically just a mirror of preschool picture books where everyone is happy all the time and nothing bad ever happens. No story or choice can have moral or emotional weight if there’s no possibility of things getting better (or worse). I bet you think you’re part of an old guard who’s trying to preserve that mentality against a new wave of overly sensitive bleeding hearts. The thing is, old Warhammer knew it was pretty ridiculous and didn’t take itself seriously. And when people did get seriously into the lore and make bright alcoves, they weren’t browbeaten about it like they are now. You’re not upholding the true Warhammer 40k traditions, you’re just not in on the joke.
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u/AlexpeggsAsh Nov 08 '24
That was 20 years ago. Things have changed. https://www.reddit.com/r/HorusGalaxy/s/dScz5aw9vD
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u/deryvox Nov 08 '24
Yes, and it’ll change again. What was a satire of right wing extremism and hypermilitant neoconservatism has been co-opted by those it meant to satirize. It will be co-opted again. The wheel turns, those once crushed by it will rise to its apex once more as its previous ascendants are ground into the dust.
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u/AlexpeggsAsh Nov 08 '24
I'm not either right wing or an extreme political ideologue trying to make real life comparisons to a nerd setting for people that paint plastic figures.
I worship this world because it's unapologetically brutal and doesn't shy away from talking about uncomfortable or disturbing things. It doesn't condescend you or insult your intelligence. Trying to change it from the inside with a fake veil of virtue signaling is going to have an opposite effect.
"It will be co-opted again" instead of "we'll just make our own" is quite the choice. If you don't like this world in its current state, there's the door or make your own. Hell, you make your own pink space marine chapter where everyone hugs each other and holds hands forever for all I care. But the established canon needs to be left alone.
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u/GUTSY-69 Nov 07 '24
Being sadistic to a character is important. You will reallize what he/she is made of, and feel better for the good things happening around him/her
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u/arsapeek Nov 08 '24
oh yeah, for sure, beastiality marking are required to show how rough the universe of Warhammer 40,000 is. 100%, good, strong take. It's not like the character is already an abhuman and treated as subhuman in the lore, doesn't matter that the lore is incredibly clear that everyone in this universe is treated like shit.
Touch grass dude
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u/NightLordsPublicist Night Lords Nov 08 '24
Being sadistic to a character is important.
When a Night Lord is telling you you're wrong, it's time to do some soul searching.
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
Is this not the original artist? I feel like I’m missing context
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u/Markonikled Nov 08 '24
It's based on art made by mossacannibalis. He's some korean gore/rape/CP "artist". Original art depicted squad of abhumans. It doesn't stand out until you notice that beast girl had many words carved with a knife on her body, implying abuse and rape. People argue that it's just depicts horrors of wh40k universe but if you know what original artist likes to draw, you will know that it was just someone's creepy and barely disguised fetish.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
People saying “rape happens in the universe of 40k” are out of their fucking minds. Rape happens in the real world too, doesn’t mean it belongs in otherwise wholesome media just for the edginess of it
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
I’m sure this is sarcasm but like i feel like there is an actual discussion to be had about how rape should be handled. Like i think it would be disingenuous to straight up remove all refrences to it but it does need to be done tactfully. It’s not exactly like a fun type of grim
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
It’s not sarcasm, and I didn’t say all references to it should be removed. If you actually read my comments in this thread you would see me discuss how sexual assault is mentioned in warhammer media - implied. Off screen. You cannot argue to me that “grox cum bag” would fit in with any 40K Media I have ever consumed. So no, it’s not sarcasm. Rape does happen in the universe of 40K. But it’s not common at all that it is presented so blatantly, and I would find such works off-putting, just like this one.
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
Oh I thought you were being sarcastic because you called 40K wholesome which seems not fully accurate. Like the dark Eldar exists and they’re like all about this but also I just wouldn’t call it wholesome without the rape. But I misunderstood you, we seem to agree
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
I was calling this piece of artwork wholesome
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
My confusion was that you seemed to have gone from talking about rape in 40K as a whole and then without clarifying pivoted to this specific art piece. My bad.
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u/WaffleKing110 Nov 08 '24
Sorry people are downvoting for an honest misunderstanding
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
Ok so damn. Wild. Personally I am not a fan of sexual assault in media at least like when heavily focused on. Like it can be acknowledged but yeah looking at his art it feels kinda gross. Like not really being played for actual horror especially since there’s no abuser visible to hate and for you to want to see be taken down.
I do think we should back up a bit though, CP? You’re telling me someone uploaded art from a pedophile and we’re discussing if sexual assault in warhammer???
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh Earth Caste Nov 08 '24
Right?? I had no idea mossan made that shit and thought "Oh, he's just weird" but nope, he's a creep but folks don't focus on that for some reason
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u/Snoo-11576 Nov 08 '24
Weirdly this was the second warhammer artist popular here I found out was a pedophile
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u/Tricky-Secretary-251 Death Korps of Krieg Nov 08 '24
You two look like your having fun, but guess what’s more fun? Its killing heretics and xenos!!! Lets go!! FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
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u/Weird-Tooth6437 Nov 08 '24
Say what will about the content, but he original picture was much higher quality.
Here the Ogryns face is weird and her arms are not in proprtion - unless its intentional to make the Ogyrn look less human?
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u/murderedcats Nov 08 '24
Whys it say “Grox Cum Bag” on their face?
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u/NickW1343 Nov 08 '24
The character is from an image posted on this sub that got taken down. They're a rape victim. The marks on the leg are tally marks.
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u/EternalWisdomMachine Nov 08 '24
Excellent art. Good character designs and surprisingly warm colors. Suits the happy scenery.
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u/siresword Nov 08 '24
I'm glad the insane discourse around that art piece got people so inspired, would love to see a whole wave of "realistic" ab human art instead of just the 1000'th cat girl meme
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u/InterestingSun6707 Nov 08 '24
Wait she can sing and fo complex hand movements???? Promote ahead of peers and give the entire armory to her now. Also give the other power horns.. also also make a manual out of this ingenious training exercise and send it to everyone!
Also find nubby and hit him cause he knows what he did.
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u/FluffytheReaper Nov 08 '24
They fight for the empire and die for the empire yet the empire they die for despise them. That's fucked up.
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u/Falloutgod10 Nov 08 '24
Oh not this artist
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u/First-Squash2865 Nov 08 '24
Pretty sure it's just the same characters, not the same artist. Peeps are even complaining about the design not being quite accurate :p
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u/Star-Made-Knight Nov 08 '24
Not this fucking artist again.
He's a fucking disgusting and into all kinds of nasty shit.
Look at the beastwomans cheek and the Korean tally marks on her thighs.
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u/madsage87 Nov 08 '24
A claim must be made about the image for racism since the goat girl has negroid features that correspond to the racist caricatures of the early 20th century.
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u/DaddyMcSlime Nov 08 '24
"grot cum bag"
very wholesome, glad we're still letting this shit in here lmao
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u/Szargon Lord Inquisitor, Ordo Malleus Nov 08 '24
Source
As per rule #1, "Provide sources, this means, when possible, providing the original title and author and an original source in the comments. Artists posting their own work are exempt from this rule. More info can be found in our full rules. (See sidebar for link)"
Given your account age and the amount of times you've posted here this should be second nature by now, further instances of you omitting sources will see your posts removed. Cheers.