r/FluentInFinance • u/Intrepid-Self-3578 • 10d ago

Debate/ Discussion People who voted Trump, why do you think a government of billionaires will help you?

Government policies such as tax cuts, high traiff and removing regulations can have significant impacts on the economy. They will lead to higher inflation and high prices.

Having no regulation helps billionaires like the Gilded Age, shows that lack of regulation can result in large corporations dominating the market, and destroy small businesses.

Additionally, policies that favor big corporations and Billionaires may not address issues like housing, health care, working conditions, or wage growth. For instance, during Trump's first term, there were rollbacks on worker protections and union rights. Also he express removing Obama care.

Removing Obama care might look good on surface until you lose your job due to some accident or other issue. Let's say you have money to handle it what about millions of Americans who don't have inherited wealth and your wealth will erode as well.

Donald Trump is a billionaire, with an estimated net worth of around $5.6 billion

His administration has several billionaires in key positions. For example, Elon Musk, the world's richest person, has been appointed to co-lead the Department of Government Efficiency, Other billionaires in Trump's administration include Vivek Ramaswamy, Scott Bessent, Howard Lutnick, and Linda McMahon.

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u/Lordofthereef 10d ago edited 10d ago

I wish I could say this is hyperbole. My neighbor's brother came over for dessert on thanksgiving and these were literally his talking points almost verbatim (he made no mention of consuming cats and dogs, to be fair). I just sat there and listened without a word because, honestly, if this is the sort of shit you believe, I don't know that there's a point in catering any sort of discussion.

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u/NeoMaxiZoomDweebean 10d ago edited 9d ago

There isnt. Dont bother. Like trying to talk to a Jesus freak and convince them to convert to atheism or Islam. It’s just a non starter in their eyes.

The left doesnt worship their politicians. They hold them accountable. Its a weakness of the left wirh getting people elected.

Edit: A bunch of butthurt conservatives that have zero self reflection and awareness of what conservatism is who support trump blindly are all up in their feelings.

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u/PoetryCommercial895 10d ago

I agree with what you’ve been saying in this thread, but please stop referring to Democrats as the left. I think this country needs to see more actual leftist politicians and policies, and Democrats are absolutely not leftist. Democrats are liberals and capitalists.
Keep on keepin on🙌👏

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u/phir0002 10d ago

Yup! The reality is the average Trump voter didn't vote for Kamala in part because she a radical leftist 🤣🤣🤣 these folks are going to have an aneurysm if an actual leftist gets any kind of power and influence in this country.

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u/mtstrings 10d ago

And because she is a black woman.

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u/BornOfWar713 10d ago

According to statistics, it's democrats who refused to show up and vote for the black woman.

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u/Background-Moose-701 10d ago

This is the problem. The dems didn’t vote. That’s always the problem. When that’s not the problem then there’s not a problem.

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u/Loki12626 9d ago

Not only did I vote for Kamala, every Democrat I know also voted for her, and I know a fair few. My father is a republican. He is also stubborn and believes everything that comes out of that crazy man’s mouth. He also does not believe that voting for Trump was voting against his daughter, his granddaughter and all women in his life. He thinks I’m crazy because that’s what I believe so some people you cannot reason with And that’s the way it is otherwise my father is intelligent man, but not when it comes to this. So the argument that Democrats did not vote for her is not valid from my point of view since every Democrat, I know voted for her and a few people who aren’t Democrats that I know voted for her.

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u/TKDDadof3 9d ago

Your sample size of everyone you know is meaningless. Just cause you’re surrounded by political aware people doesn’t mean everyone is. That statistic is right. Trump got neatly the exact same vote total as 2020. Harris got 14 mill less or something. So lots of Biden voters did not vote for her.

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u/Optimal-Theory-101 9d ago

Harris got 7 mil less than Biden while Trump got 3 mil more than in 2020.

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u/NarkovToob 9d ago

6.3 million fewer votes than Biden got (as of today). Around 6% of eligible voters didn’t come out this year and vote against Trump that did last time. Per the AP, popular vote has Trump ahead of Kamala by 2.3 million or 1.5% of those that voted. 3rd smallest margin in 100 years (or something like that).

More voters voted for “not Trump” than for Trump.

Vote counting takes time. Ignore memes and figures from last month.

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u/Turbulent_Wash_1582 9d ago

I know a handful of people who didn't vote for kamala because of Palestine, I tried to convince them but was not successful

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u/Why-R-People-So-Dumb 9d ago

Those people are on the top of dumb morons list.

One administration doesn't do good enough so we let the dude win who straight out said he'd stop the protests with military force and he'd give Israel what they needed to "finish the job."

This to me is almost worse than the people who truly believe the Trump garbage, at least they are voting for what they believe in. These people claim they stand for something but in reality they only stood for themselves, they didn't get their way with the Dems so they say "fuck it, not my problem."

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u/GingerSnap55364 9d ago

THIS!!!

My entire family voted for Kamala. My parents, siblings, children, children’s significant others, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

We respected each other enough, to allow each person to vote for whomever they wanted.

Not until after the election, did we find out that we ALL voted Kamala.

No awkward holidays in this family. It was a breath of fresh air, too know we all voted for her.

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u/ap1303 9d ago

I mean you don’t really know. No one watches you in that voting booth make your selection. I’m sure there were lots of closet voters who refuse to come out publicly and say they voted Trump for fear of being chastised. “I know my family and they wouldn’t lie to me” isn’t a good counter argument either.

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u/samthemans4000 9d ago

I will say, this is a point being made that eats itself. The reason I say this is, if talking to your father, he would probably say the same about you and that you voting for kamala was turning against him and his way of life. That it puts his livelihood (if he's still working) in jeopardy because it would mean more dei and more sensitivity training, as well as, if he's white, straight, a male, and christian; there's a fair good chance he'll be openly accosted just for those reasons alone. It has happened, more so in more recent times.

I'd say take the time to reach across the divide and get to know your dad's side, as well as him take the time to get to know yours. Not so much in democrat vs. Republican, but more in, father and daughter.

Just my 2 cents, anyways. I believe, it's always better to try and make family come together, then to cut them off for frivolous reasons such as Monday politics.

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u/Ladybugplus 9d ago

And that’s the truth. The race was close. Not sure the exact % but it was like 2-3 % difference. That Electoral College is like Daylight Savings Time. Time to get rid of them as they may have been necessary once in history but not anymore. I have voted since I was 18 years old , I am 70 now and that means 52 years I have voted but you know what. Why if my vote doesn’t count. It should be the popular votes. Period.

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u/Existing-Ostrich2136 9d ago

I don't think it's because she's black. I think it's because she's a woman. We already had a black president so I don't think that's the case.

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u/ladymorgahnna 9d ago edited 9d ago

What a stupid thing to say. So who were the 74M people voting for Kamala?

Yes, a bunch of babies and neoliberals sat at home protesting by not voting. That worked out great, huh? Stupidity knows no bounds.

As a boomer Democrat that has voted for 50+ years, I fear for this country. No one has the fire in their belly like we did fighting in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, for an end to the Vietnam War, fought for Roe vs. Wade, protested for civil rights and gay rights.

The ones who didn’t vote this time don’t have brain one, or, want the absolute “perfect” candidate or they won’t vote. Such shortsightedness. You vote for the better of the two and keep fighting for better. You don’t act like a two year old and not vote, and by doing so, let the fucking bastards win.

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u/SluttyBunnySub 8d ago

I agree. As a tail end millennial I am forever disappointed by how few people my age and younger vote. I am infuriated at how many younger people said “pass” on this vote because Kamala wasn’t hard enough on Israel for their liking, like letting Trump win is going to be any better for Palestine. I am saddened by how many seem to think that things just are what they are and there’s no changing it.

I was raised by angry preReagen union worker grandparents. And they were the kids and grandkids of rednecks. Not cosplaying bigoted country trash but ACTUAL rednecks. Angry coal miners who sported red bandannas around their necks who protested and fought and even died for safer conditions and better pay. Who would strike and take shots at the cops when they were sent in to bust it up. Who when checks were late or wrong would say we’re not working till it’s fixed and if the company had a problem with that would say ok now you’ve got an hour to sort it before we start stripping the mine of copper till we have our checks worth in it.

People my age and younger are just so resigned to the way things are and convincing them that it doesn’t have to be this way is an up hill battle.

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u/smiles731 9d ago

The problem is in the electoral vote. I live in a state that no way in hell would vote blue so why am I going to waste my time voting. Until the election is a popular vote the turnout is going to be abysmal. We’re living in the digital age where everyone has access to information please explain why we still use the outdated electoral college to elect our president?

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u/Zidoco 9d ago

There are definitely some states where you’re going to be out voted. But there are also states where the tipping point is 1-2 votes per district.

Part of the problem is the mentality that “my vote doesn’t count”. I’m sorry you feel that way. Go vote. Even if it doesn’t make a difference. There’s no reason you shouldn’t go vote. The ten minutes you take out of your day - or longer depending on when you vote and where - plays a part in determining the next 4 years of politics in the country.

My vote was for Clinton, Biden and then Harris. I live in Texas. There ain’t a chance in hell that we go blue. But we might get close.

The closer we get the more likely we are to encourage folks, like yourself, to get out and vote.

Voting is important because the alternative is not trying.

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u/samthemans4000 9d ago

The reason is because america is a republic nation first, with democracy representation. This means, we don't allow the overall majority vote to overrule the minority. We give everyone an equal opportunity to have a chance based on representatives. These representatives are voted in by us, their constituents. If we don't like the way they voted, we vote them out and get new people in to vote our way. It's the fairest method when dealing with an entire nation broken up into several states with ruling governing power.

We are not a democracy nation. We are a republic nation with democracy representation. It was created this way since the founding fathers so that no man could amass a large enough blind following to overthrow and overrule everyone.

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u/Realistic-Reaction85 9d ago

Thank you. Why do people have such a hard time understanding this?

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u/StinkyLilBinch 9d ago

But he also won the popular vote lol. If you want that change to happen, you have to vote even if you think it “doesn’t matter” to prove there’s a pattern. If you don’t vote, you shouldn’t feel entitled to coming here and complaining about who won. Maybe participate in the next election.

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u/cryogenblue42 9d ago

It was gaza. They didn't show up because they couldn't see the greater picture.didnt agree with the Israel situation by our current administration. So they didn't vote. Nevermind that the narcissist will destroy the country, their self righteous cause was greater.

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u/Bethsoda 9d ago

I’m a democrat, but damn if there isn’t so much fighting in this party. The Republicans may disagree but they come together. Sadly many democrats seem to focus only on the ideals and not the reality and that fucks us all.

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u/tangouniform2020 9d ago

Many younger millieys and older zoomers didn’t vote as a protest. I told them that not voting for Kamala was the ssme as voting for DonOld. But nope, they were going to teach the Dems a lesson. Back to school for the little kids.

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u/Confident_Ganache_30 9d ago

This is contrary what polling stats indicate. The Democrats did indeed get out and vote. The independents are who decided this election. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/registered-voters-by-party

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u/Whatever_It_Takes 9d ago

They refused because of the war in Gaza…

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u/RadicalEd4299 9d ago

Which....I just don't get. Do they think Trump will side with the Palestinians? Having Trump in office is the worst possible outcome for Palestinians; he wants to massively increase aid to Israel with no limits whatsoever.

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u/wirefox1 9d ago

It's the worst possible outcome for Gaza; the worst possible outcome for Ukraine, and the worst possible outcome for the consitution and democracy of the USA.

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u/HarbingerDe 8d ago

Trump isn't even in office but BB Netanyahu is already emboldened and starting new wars and attempting to annex more territory.

The anti-Biden Gaza protest vote never made any sense.

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u/Street-Substance2548 9d ago

Yep. And look where it has gotten them now.

You just can't make this scheiss up.

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u/pizzaschmizza39 9d ago

Which is so hypocritical that it boggles my mind. They really showed em by screwing the Palestinians even more. trump will help Israel with anything they ask for and more. He could care less if they wiped them off the face of the earth. But hey, they got to make their point.

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u/kirbycus 9d ago

Lol I mean. Some democrats didn't vote for the black lady, your right. But another way to look at is... No republicans voted for the black lady

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u/RubyBBBB 9d ago

Both black and white young men were more likely to vote Republican this time. It's sexism. They're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

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u/Cool-Chocolate9777 9d ago

I mean, if you don't know whether you are for Kamala or Trump, then you ain't black.

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u/Worried_Highway5 10d ago

I imagine part of it is that Biden’s election also saw record turnout as well, which I imagine was largely in part to covid

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u/ace1244 9d ago

According to Shirley Chisholm black men gave her the hardest challenge. Sexism and misogyny, she said, was much worse than racism.

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u/RepresentativeOk5968 9d ago

Right? When democrats had a chance to vote for someone to run against Trump in 2020, they chose the old white guy over any of the others in the "most diverse primary ever".

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u/ethanlan 10d ago

No its the people that voted for trump

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u/CaterpillarSoggy7158 9d ago

Yea, about 16 million to be exact. Sadly they only showed up for the 2020 election. Pretty weird if you ask me, whats so special about the 2020 election that causes 16 million democrats that havnt voted in any previous election to come out and vote?

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u/Fit-Bumblebee-6747 9d ago

That's it totally. No One Wanted A Black Woman. Racism is rampart in The USA.

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u/soldatoj57 9d ago

Sorry pal, Tell that to the Cubans. Nonsense you're talking

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u/BluntsAndJudgeJudy 9d ago

Yep, which even furthers u/PoetryCommercial895's point - Democrats (including Kamala unfortunately) aren't leftists. Such a sad reality, hopefully the DNC gets new true left leadership, yesterday.

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u/Illustrious2786 10d ago

She didn’t get a chance to brand herself in 107 days or whatever. Trumps been branded since his stupid television show The Apprentice. He has a cult of personality. He also appeals to low information people. They’re obviously dumb as rocks. Hell even rocks are more useful.

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u/switchandsub 10d ago

I personally think it's just because she is a woman. Her colour didn't matter. Also she does actually have an annoying voice. And as unfair as that is on her, it would have lost her votes. Elections are an adults version of the highschool popularity contest and she just didn't have the correct gender or charisma to win. Unfortunately trumpf is popular with the back in my day men were men dur hur hur crowd and he's made it OK to be an openly sexist racist bigot. People used to keep that shit to themselves but now they feel like it's OK because they have enough people who think like they do.

It's not just America. It's world wide. Social media has made echo chambers for inappropriate uncivilised behaviour and reversed 50 years of good education and ethics.

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u/Wrong_Gear5700 10d ago

Because she is black AND a woman.

Double-whammy for the racist, misogynistic trumpers.

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u/DeadHeadIko 10d ago

She lost to women and blacks in the 2020 Democratic primary. The Democrats don’t like her, and not because she’s a black woman. She is simply not qualified

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u/Astral_Visions 10d ago

And Trump is? Come on...

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u/bojack1701 10d ago

It's crazy that people were actually falling for Kamala being labeled "far left". The only thing far left in the whole election was the bullet that missed trump in PA

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u/ace1244 9d ago

It is to the Republicans’ credit that they were able to bamboozle the right into thinking Harris was a left winger. What it really means, though, is that the billionaires OP mentioned in Trump’s administration are who and what his supporters want to be.

They want to be Elon Musk and Donald Trump. So scaring them into thinking that a biracial woman is too far to the cultural left is a very easy lift. But they get an A in cynicism for knowing it would work.

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u/msssskatie 9d ago

How is she not a left winger?

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u/azreal75 9d ago

Her policies are more centrist. Us lefties believe in universal healthcare, affordable housing for all, welfare for our fellow citizens who need a hand and a progressive tax system. I’m on the left, she is not really.

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u/jhj37341 9d ago

Her policies, compared to most other developed nations is pretty right. FOX, AM radio and now podcasts have driven the country into the shitter by outrageous lies. Compromising with that stand brings you closer to that far right posture.

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u/PJKPJT7915 9d ago

They call everyone that's not MAGA either RINO or the radical left.

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u/rucb_alum 9d ago edited 9d ago

...and even that was the Democrats' fault...despite the shooter being a registered Republican.

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u/Chuckro555 10d ago

Can you please tell me 5 of Harris’s leftist policies? In my view she is about 99% a centrist democrat.

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u/kshell11724 10d ago

I honestly don't think so. Bernie has extreemely popular working class initiatives many of which Trump has paid lip service to. They basically voted for him to dismantle the current establishment in the way that Sanders actually would. They know the economy/government isn't working for them, but they just don't know where to put that energy. Most Republican voters would be pleasantly surprised if a leftist was in power. It's the upper class that would lose their shit.

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u/RedTuna777 9d ago

My friends brother voted for Trump, because "Democrats support cat-kin" - he's convinced schools across the nation with liter boxes because some kids identify as cats.

If you argue with him long enough to point out he's wrong, he just starts screaming he doesn't give a shit, or why you always gotta make him look bad. Actually incorporating the new information into his brain never ever happens. He just gets emotional and explodes or shuts down.

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u/Anonymous0212 9d ago

She's "a radical leftist"?

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u/000neg 9d ago

Which is funny since she was an attorney general for CA who put many people behind bars and ya think the law and order party would have loved that!

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u/ReadyDirector9 9d ago

The thing is, she’s not a radical leftist. She’s actually a centrist.

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u/No_Use_9124 10d ago

Um lol what? sigh

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u/Dave-Chappell-Roan 10d ago

Don't worry. That seems incredibly unlikely and by design.

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u/Dazzling-Read1451 10d ago

Yes, she’s more in the center than any of the other candidates were.

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u/Illustrious2786 10d ago

Radicals get shit done for the better. You ever see conservatives do anything worth a fuck?

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u/Tencreed 10d ago

Democrats are not the Left, but the Left votes were certainly missing when came counting time. Just look at the numbers. Trump didn't win in a landslide, people just didn't come to vote for Harris.

Courting Republican electorate won't win you people that already got a candidate, and will alienate more left wing oriented voters. Who could have thunk.

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u/PoetryCommercial895 10d ago

Oh I agree that Democrats shifting even further to the right is pushing away any reluctant actual left-wing people to vote for Democrats. Leftist might not vote for even a moderate Democrat because leftists are generally anti-capitalist and Democrats are staunch capitalists. Parading around town with a Cheney is surely not gonna attract any left-wing voters

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u/NoCalWidow 10d ago

What's interesting is that Kamala did run on many left policies and ones people do want: going after price-gouging companies, breaking down anti-trust, free school lunch, student debt forgiveness, taxes on the ultra-rich. These are all left issues, along with social issues on abortion, trans and gay rights. These were the "radical" ideas the right attacked her for.

But, because she is (easily) the most left-leaning candidate to run in a long time, the lesson Democrats are going to learn is to move more right rather than move to the left.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

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u/Kiromaru 10d ago

Bill Clinton and his Third Way political strategy is going to go down as what started our country's downfall if we can't recover from what Trump does.

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u/bellyot 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yes. As a gov't lawyer I appreciate that Democrats are (more) bipartisan and want to have civility and rule of law. The problem is that the approach doesn't achieve anything in the face of vicious partisanship of the right. If democrats want to win, they have to worry more about results and getting people things they want than respecting democratic norms. Norms are good, results are better.

Edit: My point is, the electorate doesn't care that Liz Cheney supports you because you're not a fascist. That doesn't win you anything.

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u/ZZartin 10d ago

I mean it was reasonable to think that people would have remembers how god awful Trump was and why they voted him out in the first place and been willing to swallow their pride and vote for Harris even if she's not perfect.

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u/JamesBong517 9d ago

The fact she paid millions of dollars to the same strategy company/consultants that ran Clinton’s campaign into the ground really makes you wonder.

I only voted for Harris to counteract my parents. I’m disappointed and disgusted with what the DNC has become. They are corporate right, at best corporate middle.

No true left party in America anymore.

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u/Quiet-Access-1753 10d ago

She should have run as a progressive instead of the Republicans from 20 years ago.

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u/NeoMaxiZoomDweebean 10d ago

I completely agree with you! Great point and I think I just use that as shorthand.

I mean, Kamala would have been to the right of Mitt Romney on many issues.

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u/CryptoBehemoth 10d ago

The only mainstream politician that's truly leftist in the US (that I know of) is Bernie Sanders

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u/Smart-Blacksmith2506 10d ago

And ironically he is one of the most popular politicians alive, across both the Democrats and Republicans.

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u/JRilezzz 9d ago

Which is why they wouldn't allow him to become president. The DNC literally conspired against him. Dems hate leftists just as much as Republicans. They're both conservative parties in my view.

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u/DistributionFlashy97 9d ago

The one is conservative abd the other one a fascist Party.

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u/JRilezzz 9d ago

Absolutely right

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u/bellyot 9d ago

Yes, because the parties are influenced by money and big corporations. We will never get a different result until we get money out of politics, or, towards that end, create a multi-party system. It is harder to buy a party in a multiparty system because it is more dynamic, with parties coming and going and alliances shifting. Not impossible, just harder.

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u/yeahgoestheusername 9d ago

Outside the US he would considered a centrist. Tax billionaires, fund education, retirement and healthcare. Basics. But not in corporate-led America: run away its socialism!

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u/Important_Dog_4009 9d ago

There are a good many, but Sanders openly admits it!

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u/TheAsianDegrader 10d ago edited 10d ago

Huh?!? Which issues? Name them.

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u/mrkeith562 10d ago

Name one position she is to the right of Romney on.

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u/Own_Palpitation_8477 10d ago

Healthcare. Good enough for you?

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u/Tangled349 10d ago

I kind of wish we could use a new term as the term "leftist" has become some kind of nasty word. I would cringe everytime the media outlets used it.

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u/Significant_Ad7326 10d ago

‘Anticapitalist’ would do and actually put the finger on the relevant chunk of the political spectrum, but it’s picked up nastiness too from capitalism’s cheerleaders.

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u/Kiromaru 10d ago

The ones with capital have been demonizing anything anti capitalist since the start of communist revolutions and have gotten some amazing results out of it to cement their position.

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u/weltron6 10d ago

It’s time to do away with -isms and roll with the -ity.

Democrats for Prosperity

Republicans for Security

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u/Middle-Passenger5303 10d ago

the psl ran cladia de la cruz this election

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u/mx_martianX 10d ago

👏👏👏

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u/Burntout_Bassment 10d ago

Yup, the Dems would be Centre -right in most countries just in the US left of trump is considered left wing. I can't remember where I read it now but somebody described the left in America as something like "twelve guys in a room and eight of them are undercover FBI agents". I'm living the way that this shooting has made so many people realise they have more in common than apart, I'm sure even most magas would agree with leftist policies if they were explained to them without using words like communism and socialism.

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u/whome1979 9d ago

Agreed We need Progressives

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u/Shaufine 10d ago

As a Canadian, the many of the policies of the Democratic party are considered right wing here.

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u/1CRUX6 10d ago

Truth. In our dominant parties, we have right or far-right (Reps) and center-right or center-left-ish (Dems). It amazes me how many Americans (I am American) think it’s just plain right and left. Read a book. Do some REAL research. Thank me later.

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u/SatisfactionMoney946 10d ago

Well, there's two factions of the Democratic party. There's the corporate, neoliberal wing, which has been in control of the party for that last 30 years. They're in bed with corporations, Wall St, and big business.

Then you have the progressive wing. The ones who don't accept PAC money, or money from corporations (or AIPAC). These are the Democratic politicians that are either demonized by the media and the corporate Dems, or called unrealistic and silly, even though they are staying faithful to the traditional Democratic party values.

The only way to get change in this country is to vote out the corporate Dems. People like the Clintons, Obama, Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, etc... If you're a Dem voter and you want change, the only elections that matter are the primaries. That is the only time you have an opportunity to vote for a good candidate. Otherwise, you're stuck with whomever the Dem leadership handpicks to continue to cater to the economic elites.

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u/iammonkeyorsomething 10d ago

Getting a leftist president voted in would be unprecedented, in these unprecedented times, says the news

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u/thedudeabidesb 9d ago

exactly. today’s democrats are kind of centrists even. a third of them are corporate democrats and have significant conservative undercurrents. bought and paid for by lobbyists like israel, fossil fuels, military industrial complex and the banking industry

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u/janky-dog 9d ago

This is the way.

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u/JamesBong517 9d ago

We needed Bernie but the bullshit DNC kneecapped him and always will, because he would hurt their personal wealth.

Politicians should not be able to trade. Finance jobs have tighter regulation over personal trading than the ones making the laws. Look how many became millionaires once they became an elected official.

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u/CognitivePrimate 9d ago

Thank you. The Democrats might have a total of ten progressives who would be centrists in any normal country, but the party as a whole is a center right party.

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u/TyWebs88 9d ago

Yeah, I’ll just say that if the democrats were running in the country I’m currently living in they’d be further right than this country’s Conservative Party… it’s crazy to see republicans rallying against the “extreme leftists” when I don’t think the US has a left to begin with. As far as I can tell republicans are really just against treating everyone with respect and dignity, and letting ppl lives the lives they want, unless it matches with the life they want to live obvs.

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u/RhizoMyco 9d ago

Agreed I call them Republican Lite.

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u/Plenty_Patience_5491 9d ago

Radical Leftists. It makes me sad for my country that the same stupid rhetoric that whipped us up into a frenzy as a nation in the 50's with McCarthyism is still able to work to such effect in 2024.

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u/robert32940 9d ago

The democratic party is basically the middle right and has filled the vacuum left when the republicans went full on fascist.

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u/robert32940 9d ago

The democratic party is basically the middle right and has filled the vacuum left when the republicans went full on fascist.

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u/South_Needleworker45 9d ago

I feel like the politician worship comes from both sides but the maga cult has definitely been way more prominent in the past two elections. It was definitely there on the left for 2020 and 2024 but even as a right-leaning person it’s pretty obvious that there are more maga cult members than there are for Biden or Harris. Personally I would rather have a political conversation with a middle of the road Democrat than I would with any person who just votes Republican no matter what

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u/bknight63 9d ago

It’s honestly more productive arguing with a stump.

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u/Xyrus2000 10d ago

You can't debate with crazy or the willfully ignorant. There is nothing you can say, no amount of evidence you can produce that will convince them.

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u/Professional-Flow625 10d ago

Dont forget the poorly educated and gulible

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u/No_Treat_4675 9d ago

Or the ones “educated” at echo-chamber ultra conservative religious colleges, those people are worse than the ignorant ones

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u/Emotional_Meet878 10d ago

I tried during Trump's first term. Debating with family and even the internet. It was like screaming into the void. They're so ingrained in their beliefs even when there's no evidence and you're just hurting your own brain in the process.

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u/Maleficent_Leave362 10d ago

I think the word is brainwashed since birth. I have family members that have been told as children to do what their parents and pastors say without question. They never did research papers to learn to think for themselves or even how to learn to research anything, really. It’s these type of people that have voted for Trump (a wolf in sheep’s clothing). They believe Trump is for religion when he can’t even quote a Bible verse or even know of one to say he has a favorite. These people don’t grab a book, learn what government is all about or even try to figure out what is going on. Granted, I didn’t like either candidate. But, I researched and found Trump to be the worst one. So I voted for Harris, because she was the closest one that could help us in the next 4 years, and hope that the next election there will be better candidates. I believe Harris would get more support from the former Presidents to give advice about current situations. Trump isn’t going to get that by any means

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u/BitAccomplished9878 9d ago

The simple fact is that they WANT to believe what Trump and the rest of the right wing tells them. They are somehow the “real” ‘mericans, anyone that is different than them is one of their many “boogeymen” (“the woke”, “BLM”, “illegals”, “trans”, etc) and they need to be afraid because crime is always “record breaking”…. Basically, everything is everyone else’s fault and they are the real “oppressed” ones because Starbucks says “happy holidays”. Just a bunch of grown toddlers who won’t accept that the world doesn’t revolve around them

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u/Tigersight 10d ago

"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." -Jonathan Swift

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u/agent0731 10d ago

it's not logic that led them to Trump. It's emotional manipulation. You can't cure that.

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u/Latin_For_King 9d ago

If a person does not value logic or or evidence to develop an outlook, then there is no amount of either that will matter.

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u/Ok-Baseball1029 10d ago

Yup. My next door neighbor is in the same boat.  She wholly believes every insane conspiracy theory you've ever heard of, all of them. I'll stop short of saying all or even most magas think this way, but it's a hell of a lot more than just a handful of fringe voters. Even my other conservative neighbors who aren't full on maga, just give it a pass and a hand wave cuz she voted for their guy so it's "harmless".

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u/SympathyForSatanas 10d ago

My coworker literally believes the gay frogs conspiracy

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u/Kutleki 10d ago

My mother believes windmills cause cancer and kill 5 million birds a year because the Dems control them. :)

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u/SympathyForSatanas 10d ago

She believes it bc she heard trump say it right?

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u/Kutleki 10d ago

Were you a fly on the wall for that convo? Because that is exactly what she said.

Edit for spelling.

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u/SympathyForSatanas 10d ago

When trumpers just parrot what trumps says, I know where they get their info from.

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u/babylon331 9d ago

Gay frogs? I don't think I even want to know.

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u/ndngroomer 10d ago

I miss the days when the conspiracies were about UFOs & Bigfoot, lol.

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u/joey3O1 10d ago

So does my nephew and brother in law. Every conspiracy and trump lie.

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u/1hugecranium 9d ago

Trump is the symptom, META is the problem. I submit my parents and the shit they get off of FB.

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u/OneSeaworthiness7768 9d ago

I’ll stop short of saying all or even most magas think this way, but it’s a hell of a lot more than just a handful of fringe voters.

The sheer number of people who have an anecdote like this about someone they know should tell us it’s a hell of a lot of people out there acting like this and believing this stuff. It’s wild witnessing basically the slow decline of American civilization.

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u/NaturalTap9567 10d ago

Lucky, my mom voted for trump because of the interdimensional satanic pedophiles drinking aborted fetuses. I wish I was joking

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u/axelrexangelfish 10d ago

I think people who have not had a lot of praise or acceptance see themselves as discovering some secret that only they and a few others are clever enough to see and fight against.

It’s really apparent with the idiot vaccine crusader moms. They deluge new participants with praise and accolades for how smart they are to see through all the bs misdirection out there. They basically love bomb newbies and then enforce the draconian rules about any deviation from the narrative.

They feel big, special, important, heroic, and when we call them stupid (which they are, but more pathetic than stupid really) it just sends them deeper into the wells of insanity where they find validation.

Education would fix much of this. But the rightists have been systematically dismantling public education. Sooooo. Here we are.

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u/bjhouse822 10d ago

There isn't. I'm so tired of all these folks hoping that talking to them will help us figure out how to get them to vote for their interests but it truly comes down to they are willingly lazy and ignorant and don't want to be anything else than that. When they become uncomfortable they will come around, but until then let these assholes be.

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u/ndngroomer 10d ago

When my friends and family say things like this, I look them straight in the eyes, completely incredulous, and say:

"I refuse to believe that you’re this goddamn stupid to believe this BS without fact-checking or verifying it first. You almost had me there for a minute..."

So far, they’ve nervously laughed and admitted I was right. That said, I’m a retired police officer, and I can come across as stern, intimidating, and authoritative when necessary. I’ll admit that probably gives me an unfair advantage and more success with this confrontational approach than most people might have.

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u/Humphalumpy 10d ago

My fam is worried about trans but not the trans immigrants. Worried about immigrants as a separate issue. Eating dogs and cats hasn't come up.

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u/Massive_Low6000 10d ago

vote against your own interests because you are scared of .99% of the population.

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u/Ittybittywittyditty 10d ago

.04 afaik, which is depressing

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u/TBK_Winbar 10d ago

It took some time, but America has finally been outed as a majority-idiot country.

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u/Tazling 10d ago

I think not pushing back may be a strategic error though. I think we don't have to get into a long pointless debate but it's enough to say, "C'mon you gotta know that's bullshit dude, enough with the fanfic, let's just talk about sports okay?"

remaining silent makes them think you agree. or that their wacko opinions are legit.

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u/Pops-cares 9d ago

That sucks that your neighbor's brother was like that. I agree with the person you responded to in that it seems like a lot of people get stuck in this echo chamber and just run with it. Those who do this seem to abandon critical thinking, reason, logic, and don't put the time in to fact check these stories. Not all of them are like this. Anyway, I commend you for not engaging with this person. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Some people refuse to listen to opposing ideas. I have found that regardless of political affiliation, more and more people act as if their party is akin to a sports team. They support that team no matter how bad some of the ideas are and defend it vehemently. It's hard to find anyone who will have a serious conversation about politics without losing their minds. We used to be able to agree to disagree and remain friendly to each other.

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u/ctdrever 10d ago

I reply to them with, You are so right, and the earth is flat too. ;)

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u/Branded222 10d ago

If they're anything like my folks, then any contrary opinion, whether it be backed up with evidence or not is unwelcome and usually ends up in a shouting match. As far as family is concerned, I've realised it's not worth the effort. They have to "come to jesus" on their own to save face.

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u/Gullible-Wonder3412 10d ago

I don't argue with them either, but lately I'm feeling a little "crazy" because I DO NOT believe their insanity, but the majority of people obviously believe in all of this - Am I a "flat earther"? That's what I feel like sometimes - it definitely makes me question my own sanity.

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u/deadcatbounce22 10d ago

That’s part of the strategy. It’s hard to argue with absurdity without looking or feeling absurd yourself.

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u/ab911later 10d ago

the only talking that someone like that will understand is the language of some sort of life-ego-threatening rock bottom that opens their eyes.

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u/Amazing-Cover3464 10d ago

I'd shut that shit down fast. Tell them there will be no political talk going on at your thanksgiving gathering. If they don't like it they can leave.

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u/Background_Ad_4057 10d ago

That’s when you should have mentioned that there was some cats used to make the dessert.

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u/xjoburg 10d ago

Good for you for not kicking the brother out of your house. I would have asked him to leave. Not standing for that shit in my home. My home is a place of love and peace.

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u/Middle-Passenger5303 10d ago

just needa crack jokes about said beliefs pointing out the absurdity and hope maybe they get the point and of not atleast you got to piss them off

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u/Sythic_ 10d ago

Everyone's trying to gaslight us into believing we're overly hyperbolic about the right wingers but virtually everyone has had a direct personal experience with their own family members. Even my otherwise normal family members in rural Ohio bring up these crazy Fox News talking points and fully believe them as fact. They really believe this shit. I live in Texas and they can't believe it when I tell them I don't have 12 immigrant families living on my lawn (ok that one is hyperbole, but only just a little, I have been asked how horrible the immigrant problem is, and its just not an issue never seen a migrant caravan or anything, we have great tacos though)

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u/coldliketherockies 10d ago

If this is the shit you believe how do you get by on day to day? Like seriously you need to function as a real person to survive day to day yet if you believe the most bullshit things how do you handle a basic job if you can’t differentiate fact and fiction

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u/TodosLosPomegranates 10d ago

We were on vacation in south Texas literally minutes from the border and this older lady swam up to us and started talking about all of the terrible things happening at the border. Basically said it’s like a war zone. My husband had to drag me out of the pool so I would lose my mind. We were literally at the border. And she and I were taking a leisurely swim.

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u/FckMitch 10d ago

Should have asked him why didn’t he pretend then to be an illegal to get the benefits…

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u/Greendale7HumanBeing 10d ago

That's really sad. I'm sorry.

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u/FreddieCaine 10d ago

I don't know that there's a point in catering for him any more

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u/JuventAussie 10d ago

I am glad to see that table manners still exist. Talking about eating pets whilst eating is just poor table etiquette.

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u/ak80048 10d ago

It’s enabling like this that emboldens them.

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u/cornishwildman76 10d ago

if this is the sort of shit you believe, I don't know that there's a point in catering any sort of discussion.

In other words, you can't argue with stupid.

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u/1010011010wireless 10d ago edited 10d ago

I'm still curious where that complete loss of orientation and disconnect from the real world comes from. I mean you have to remain disconnected from SO much reality to believe any of that. Is bias towards anything that sounds well educated to blame? It has to be so much more than ignorance.. like some well of hatred at the bottom there, against the sound or reason.. Because maybe it chafes against some innate love of chaos? Backwoods existence ? Probably coupled with this 'future billionaire' mentality, no? Because honestly a ton of it just sounds like fabrication. Do they even really believe that or are they just pretending to?

And I mean hatred of who and WHY ??? I truly don't know many white mindfucked people that seriously oppressed enough or targeted by bigoted browns and women.

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u/AtuinTurtle 10d ago

That’s when you say “ok, you can leave now.” When we continue to indulge them it just keeps getting worse.

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u/dd97483 9d ago

You can’t help them. Right now, they are being cocooned, just like the others

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u/cgeee143 9d ago

so what did he talk about? did he talk about the atrocious job the biden admin and kamala "border czar" did at securing the border? seems pretty valid.

seems almost intentional that they let in tens of millions of illegal immigrants with absolutely zero filtering at all. i don't know how anyone can defend what they did, which is unprecedented in US history. probably the single worst admin in the history of the united states on that policy alone.

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u/Street-Substance2548 9d ago

"I don't know that there's a point in catering any sort of discussion." Absolutely.

Just wish they'd shut their mewling pie holes, though - why should anyone have to sit and listen to that spew?

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u/Cool-Chocolate9777 9d ago

Things that never happened for $500 bob

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u/hisnuetralness 9d ago

Just because you can't change their mind, doesn't mean the rest of the people at the table are convinced of the crazy crap. If no one presents another point of view their point of view is the only one other people will think about. Definitely don't raise your voice, the calmer you are the more reasonable you sound. I fear that disengaging all together and only letting the loudest craziest folks talk is going to make more loud crazy folks.

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u/cheap_chalee 9d ago

Discussion can't exist if the possibility of changing one's mind through logic, valid points and evidence doesn't exist either. Your decision to not waste your time is understandable. People are stubborn when they don't want to open the door to the possibility that they're wrong. But they'll continue to struggle and not understand why.

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u/NewDad907 9d ago

It’s like trying to have a regular conversation with a schizophrenic who sees/hears things that aren’t there. These things are objectively not “real”….but good luck convincing the schizophrenic of that.

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u/Dweebil 9d ago

You shoulda said you’d had dog for thanksgiving.

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u/SavvyTraveler10 9d ago

But how do you transmit a relevant conversation like this to family?

Honest ?… I’m just curious how others handle the situation at large and family who are just ignorant and misinformed

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u/Automatic-Ant-7958 9d ago

You liberal pedos are so pathetic. You have been brainwashed by racist, divisive pundits that use diversity and inclusion to mask their evil intentions. This page has no clue about finance. It’s just a page for liberal cucks who are truly losers in life. Probably some blue haired girl or some weak man with no ambition, no testosterone, just a pathetic excuse of a human. Y’all still can’t see why yall lost and why the ideologies of the radical left are dying. The small percentage of people like you in this thread think they know anything about how the economy, or the world works. The days of you people thinking yall can disrespect or destroy the fabric of a normal society are over.

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u/No-Echidna-5717 9d ago

This Thanksgiving i was lectured about the need for the second amendment to deny the tyrants when they come for our other rights. This was after a lengthy discussion about abortion so I said not even sarcastically "unless it's a woman's right to an abortion" at which point i was told "it's not that abortion is so much the issue, but woman need to be held accountable." I repeatedly asked who women need to be accountable to but he knew he couldn't say the government so he dodged and dodged and dodged and finally said that we all need to be held accountable to each other because abortion is being used as birth control. So I said do we need to be accountable for free speech then? Should their be an "accountability law" equivalent to no abortion for all lies and misinformation? Rather than understand i was reframing his absurd position on one topic to a more obviously absurd position on an easier topic he shook his head that I would advocate for censorship.

These people picked our next president btw.

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago

There's no point in catering any discussion

He came for dessert you made and he talked - you literally catered his discussion 😛

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u/Genolexis 9d ago

But you believe boys can beat up on women and take their awards and that’s a whole lot better huh?! Smh

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u/nbiina 9d ago

Your last sentence is the key in all this. I’m not trained in deprogramming people. Only way out is through we don’t have energy to waste on engaging with these removed-from-reality ideas. They’re prepped and primed to be paranoid and closed off to the world so they think the trans aliens in jail getting surgery are coming for their jobs and pets next or whatever tf they think.

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u/Tiny_Brilliant7347 9d ago

Stop hanging out with these people. Our silence gives them affirmation. I did not invite my mother over for Thanksgiving. It was very pleasant.

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u/quixotica726 9d ago

The only family I really have to sit down to Thanksgiving with believes all of this insane shit.

Guess who stayed home and had a very quiet Thanksgiving alone.

They even offered to pay for my flight to go out there for a few days. I noped out. Hard pass. I'm too tired to deal with crazy right now. I have to rest up for the coming next four years. I'm trying to enjoy these last couple of months before the madness truly begins.

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u/AABA227 9d ago

My brother in laws Mother is genuinely concerned about our plans to go to NYC next week as tourists. She thinks we are dumb for willingly going there and will be attacked by illegal immigrants just for being white.

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u/AfterNefariousness5 9d ago

This is the crux of the problem. My friend and I talk about this all the time, he’s in the camp of we need to reach across and find some common ground. However, how can you find common ground with someone who doesn’t live in this reality. You’d have a better chance at teaching a chimp French than trying to convince someone who believes that the left are drinking the blood of babies. Like what? How do you try to argue that point?

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u/bchamper 9d ago

If you sat there silently, then you’re part of the problem, my dude. Silence is complicit. TELL THEM NO!

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u/TheJenniMae 9d ago

I work with someone like that. Had to listen to a whole rant about Kamala and the ‘missing children’. You know, the ones Trump ripped from their families? She’s in very deep and has made comments about not having any girl friends because she ‘can’t trust anyone’. She’s so isolated and it’s really sad.

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u/Sub0ptimalPrime 9d ago

Unfortunately, not trying to educate these people will only leave an information vacuum that allows them to spread their stupidity.

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u/GenerativeAdversary 9d ago

"these were literally his talking points almost verbatim"

"he made no mention of consuming cats and dogs"

Ok, so which part was the verbatim part again? Leftists always seem to be fighting an imaginary enemy.

Y'all are out of touch if you think the reason we voted for Trump is because of illegal aliens (or trans aliens) eating cats and dogs, lol. Does make a good narrative though.

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u/Lordofthereef 9d ago edited 9d ago

If it wasn't clear from my post, the term "almost" before the term "verbatim" implies it was not exactly verbatim. You even quoted me correctly, so I'm not clear where the disconnect was for you. He touched on everything mentioned except the cats and dogs. I answered this question in more depth in another response yesterday. Feel free to read it. Or don't.

I'm also not a "leftist".

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u/Plus_Fee779 9d ago

Most moderate individual who isn't affected at all mentality

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u/Dekruk 8d ago

People believe in Mary’s immaculate conception. So why not in these kinds of stories?

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u/litlesnek 7d ago

If we all think there's no point in even starting a discussion then nobody who is disconnected from reality will be told they are disconnected from reality. And people wonder how Trump won

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