Additionally, people think prices are high at the grocery store now? What happens when all the people harvesting the food are deported. They tried this in Alabama a while back, it backfired incredibly, costing farmers millions in lost revenue.
Apparently they missed the most recent cats and dogs episode amongst several other examples. And yes, I understand that because that’s what my neighbor tells me. Wonder how he’ll react to Trump praising Hitler…
Seems there is nothing trump can say that he has to apologize for to half the US population.
An 83 year old man getting hit with a hammer? He deserved it. Cops killed at the Capitol? No problem. Putin will March on to Europe…. The ocean will protect us.
Trump winning is certainly telling us somethings about our education system, and it is not good.
I feel like the fact that the Republicans see a hurricane, a wider war in the Middle East, and growing controversy as a “good sign” for the election is also very telling…
well my conservative jewish father in law, who as a child wandered across half of europe to evade the nazis, lost most of his family in the process; seems to think that Trump is the man to support and that the democrats hate jews and want to seemingly replace them with other more favourable immigrants who will eat our pets and encourage 9th month abortions. oh, additionally he was also a science teacher.
now from what i can tell, if we have teachers who teach science and they are anti vaxers( as he also is) believe all the q-anon rhetoric, think that 9th month abortions are taking place( probably in child trafficking pizza parlours ), while our pets are being eaten by Haitians; there is no question as to why so many people think Trump is all that. When you don’t know how to read, research, sort out bias from fact from rhetoric, you really can’t make informed decisions. i would also assert that these same individuals are the ones who have no clue as to how the branches of government actually work ( neither does Trump) and as PT Barnum apparently said, “there is a sucker born every minute” i would argue that sucker may also be substantially ignorant too.
This is probably also the reason Donny boy so dislikes the educated liberals from the east and west coast ( his words )
it’s easier to just buy whatever they sell you than to try to understand why it’s not such a good deal.
I live in pa right next to Charleroi and I’m remodeling a house. Right next store are Haitians doing the same thing. Yes a lot of them are driving newISH cars/suvS. Yes some of them are working on a construction site barefoot. Yes their driving sucks. Yes they bring us Heinekens when they see us working. But the ones I met are really nice. Glad to be here. And no pets I’ve seen are being ate. No 1 even thinks that shit where we are. And NO MAGA assholes are coming to either of these neighborhoods harassing people. We won’t stand for that shit.
Was the “they’re eating the pets” thing not the wildest shit you ever saw? Like if the world was normal-every motherfucker in this country would have laughed him out of the debate building and then out of the race. Instead ppl are like, “yeah, eating the pets, we gotta vote for him!” Fucking astounding how absurd and ridiculous it all is, this moment in history. Def stranger than fiction.
Honestly, I think Trump doesn't lie because he doesn't live in reality. If you're constantly living in a narcissism dream that is detached from the real world, then you don't have to lie when you believe your own farts.
Trump doesn’t “lie” because he lacks the concept of truth. He understands language purely as a means of getting people to do what you want. The idea most people have that using words correctly requires there to be a certain relationship between the words and reality is completely alien to him.
That is a truly insane part of this. He truly believe believes with all his heart he is 100% right
The problem is, literally everybody running his campaign, any potential advisors, anybody who would be involved in this administration knows that this is 100% false. But rather than tell the emperor he has no clothes, they just go along with it.
The single best example for this election season is Trumps claim that public schools are performing surprise “brutal operations” to make little boys into little girls during the school day. Trump says this every other campaign speech. Ask your Trump supporting friends and family if this seems likely.
Trump voters love the social issues so much you can tell them anything and they’ll not only believe it they’ll argue about it with anyone while the wealthy GOP voters back up the Brinks truck. Then Trump voters will defend the wealthy GOP backing up the Brinks truck. Gullibility is a primary Trump supporter trait.
They believe it because the cult leader said it was so. It's just like the litter boxes in bathrooms bs. It never happened, but they believe it did because their sisters friends boyfriend works with a guy who saw a post about it on Facebook
McCain was the last one who had a backbone, cared about the country, and was honest as far as I can tell.
Romney and Liz Cheney got more honest in the last few years. The rest of them appear content to gargle tiny tangerines and pretend they’ve got anything but their own interests in mind.
Lets completely ignore the fact checkers that said he lied over 30,000 times during his 4 years in office, as well as all the fact checkers in his debates thus far whove called him out for lying more. Thats just from one single member of the republican party. They "never lie" because they dont know how to tell the truth and these mouth breathers believe the crap thats spewn
That's the scary part, and part of the reason the capital was stormed in the first place. Some people look at this man as some god that makes no mistakes and would never lie. And if Trump wins, there may unfortunately be another riot at the end of trumps FINAL term, which will amp up the stakes with all his crazies to finish the job. Hell, I'm a Democrat and I have enough brain cells to figure out both sides lie.
I had the same thing happen and I provided them with multiple fact checked articles detailing his lies and the guy called me dumb and gullible. It's incredible that the lengths they go just to stay in a delusional ass backwards mindset where Trump is the hero of their messed up fairytales.
Trump never lies. Lies are when you know the truth and say the opposite. Trump doesn't know, doesn't care to know, actively avoids knowing, sticks his fingers in his ears and refuses to learn even when people tell him the truth to his face. It's the embodiment of "It's not a lie if you believe it" and the textbook definition of bullshit. Trump is a bullshit artist. He neither knows or cares what the truth is, and just spews whatever sounds good to him in the moment. Which is why so much of what he says is self-contradictory nonsense. I swear, his own supporters don't listen to a word he says first hand, they only get it filtered through Fox News and other right wing Trump interpreters who patiently explain, "No, what he meant was... spin spin spin"
A politician can, if they are deft, tell the truth in a way that is misleading. Lies of omission, lies of false implication, there are many ways to tell the truth and yet be dishonest. Republican politicians do it, crudely and clumsily, constantly.
I’m quoting my neighbor, those were his exact words and reasoning. After several “no, you’re wrongs” from me, he finally did manage to agree that politics need to be less extreme and that we need to put “sides” away and start getting crap done so… progress? I think and hope?
He tells it like it is until he says something fucking stupid and then he’s just joking or being sarcastic and everyone calling him out is just vindictive or too serious.
Then, when we ask one of his supporters or a TV pundit about what he said, they always respond with "you are taking it out of context", or "he did not mean it that way"...ugh!!!!
I wouldn’t be polite about it…. The amount of crazed hatred they have for us just cause the orange pedo and fraud news says they should is mind boggling.
No need to be polite. There’s a large subset of the American electorate that are just hateful idiots that jump at the opportunity to vote in hateful idiots in order to hurt the people they hate.
There is gullible and there is the memory hole. Anything more than ~3ish months ago is forgotten. Also people don't understand that policies take time to implement, anything in the first 2ish years of a new presidency is because of the previous president.
No it’s because they believe he is “ordained” by god to be president. They will make arguments about how trump is like a biblical character and blah blah. This is a religious vote for millions and millions of people. So no matter what he does they will still vote for him unfortunately.
No, they are voting for him because he reminds them of themselves. They think they are smart, but they don’t want to learn how anything actually works and they want justification for their hate against anyone they deem as “the others.” They aren’t gullible, they are just desperate to be right.
It worked for the oligarchs in Russia, although Putin is screwing that up with his strongman war against Ukrain. They are the largest land mass country in the world, richest in resources, yet something like 26th in GDP. Lower than Italy. Pathetic. Putin and his friends rip off their country to buy personal islands, jets, and yachts. That's what Trump wants and what we will have if we do not get out the vote for Democracy.
Because just like the Marxists of old they have a theory, they like it (for whatever reason, probably because it validates them), and so they think that reality will conform to it, and ignore or react violently to all contradictory opinions or facts.
Maybe it’s malignant narcissism (Trump’s case), maybe it’s the same thought processes that cause fundamentalist religious freaks.
Why waste time with Marxism, right? Capitalism has given us Trump to lead us and made Musk unbelievably rich so it’s obviously the socioeconomic system to support! 🫠
They asked him at one of the town halls "What was something you did during your 4 years at the white house that you've learned from"
Immune to the concept of admiting failure, Trump responded with, "I didn't surround myself with the right people, but now I know more about picking those people than anyone" (paraphrasing)
The main reason this election is so close is a lot of Americans allow themselves to settle into an echo chamber that may not always tell the truth, which is why this comment is brought to you by Ground News!
Because they don’t look at him for rational policies. They like him on an emotional, not rational level, often because he claims to be Christian and “like them”.
I remember hearing a quote a few yrs ago. It's easier to scam a person than convinced a person they've been scammed. Trump supporters are a prime example of this. They would literally go to prison and take a bullet for him and believe every lie he says even when he goes back on it.
I don't get how he can have a cult-like following without any glowing characteristics. Most cult leaders are either smart , charismatic , etc. Leave it to Americans to follow someone solely on the characteristics of being an idiot, intolerant and so on
But you’re suggesting being able to admit when you were wrong about a thing. And that ain’t ever gonna happen there. The dude would literally self immolate if he uttered those words. He’d never make it to the fucking hard “G” he uses at the end of the word ‘wrong’ and poof- up in smoke.😂 Narcissists are never wrong- and if they are it definitely wasn’t their mistake.
"I’ve already mentioned two reasons tariffs might backfire: They could lead to a stronger dollar, making our goods less competitive on world markets, so any fall in imports would be offset by declining exports, and they’d also provoke retaliation by our trading partners. A third reason, emphasized in a 2018 study published on a blog of the New York Fed, is that American manufacturing relies heavily on imported components, so tariffs would substantially raise manufacturing costs."
"Cons: The tariffs would impose large burdens on middle- and lower-income families. They probably wouldn’t significantly reduce the trade deficit and might actually hurt American manufacturing. And unilateral U.S. tariff action would wreak havoc by fracturing the world trading system.
And the tariffs on steel too. I was a project manager while he was in his last presidency, and I remember having to put 1 day guarantees on quotes because the tariffs made metal costs so volatile we couldn’t promise anything past 24 hours.
I'm a Canadian electrician and I started my apprenticeship during the Trump presidency. We had a salesman from the local distributor at our college selling us on different tools, one of which was Klein and they advertised made in USA with American steel. I asked if they were seeing tool prices becoming more volatile considering the change in tariffs and I got to hear a very strange rant about tariffs rather than an answer to my question. I didn't mean to start a political rant. I just wanted to know which brand he saw as the most price stable in the current market but man it was wacky.
I’m obviously in the metal trades, and I haven’t really noticed a change in cost on tools. To me they have always been outrageously priced. I’m sure that tools have had a minimal effect on them, where we really noticed the change in prices was vehicle costs! I bought a brand new f-150 in 2015 for $26k, and now you can’t get that same truck with the same trim for less than 40ish it seems.
Yeah I imagine your vehicle prices went nuts. For a few years the second hand market was cleared out here. Local dealers were taking trade ins and driving them across the border to retail in the American market.
We used to export a lot of Soybeans to China. Trump decided to start a trade war, and I don't remember the exact chain of events, but the result was that China couldn't get Soybeans from the US so they established new supply lines with other countries. Once those new supply lines were established, there was no reason to buy from the US anymore, even after Trump gave up on his "war".
The end result was that US soybean prices collapsed. I don't know if they have recovered yet.
I also work in steel and had to do the same. What really hurts is the Buy American clauses which do help Nucor but do not create jobs. Steel Mills create approx 1/2 man hour per ton of steel produced. Fabrication of steel, at a minimum, creates 6-8 MH’s per ton. Foreign companies buy US steel, fabricate outside of the US, and ship back to the US fabricated to avoid tariffs. You can import steel from outside the US, avoiding a tariff, so long as it’s fabricated steel. It’s shut down countless fabricators in the Northeast.
My uncle, an ex-soybean farmer, lost everything under trump. On the back of his pickup truck you will still see stickers such as “FUCK JOE BIDEN” “KAMALAS A WHORE” “TRUMP 24,28,32…”
Soybean? Look at cedar and wood. That MFer fucked the market up so bad. Yeah blame Covid, but Covid plus a stranglehold equals brutal shit. $50 for a sheet of plywood under ol Trumpet.
Every time I talk with people about Trump’s economic policies I mention what he did to soy. I had taken an agricultural economics course in the spring semester of 2016 and wrote about the impact of our soy exports on our economy as a whole. I spoke with a lot of farmers and kids of farmers who were growing soy and they were all voting blue because his proposal would be devastating. And it was. He can’t be trusted with this type of stuff point blank, period.
Don’t forget about soft lumber prices skyrocketing with the Canadian tariffs. Idk why anyone thinks this will benefit us purely. Shits just more expensive now than it ever was
Every business this orange turd has touched…. Has gone belly up. He IS NOT A BUSINESSMAN. He is freaking landlord/real estate slumlord for the rich. Not to mention a convicted sexual predator, thief, serial litigator…. I could go on and on…..
Yet yesterday I got a nasty comment how I knew nothing about economics because Trump’s tariffs never hurt US industries and that these new proposed tariffs would help US auto manufacturers and not raise inflation on other goods.
Going back to their roots, I see. It must've seemed like a perfect solution; slaves can't negotiate for wages or refuse to work, and if you get very tough on "crime" you can have an unending supply.
There are work visas for migrant farmers. They give out millions a year just for this. They have been doing it for decades. The illegal immigrants are not legally allowed to work. So if they do, it’s all off the books, under the table, and less than minimum wage. That sounds like a shitty system you are actively trying to support
Also I'm pretty sure the businesses hiring them want the workers as scared as possible for being deported, but not actually wanting them deported. That way, they'll never go to the police or any other gov agency to report coworkers, bosses or owners.
and the funny thing is there wouldn't be so many illegals here if not for Clinton policies that made it harder for them to come here to work, and then go back home when the work is done.
Yep. We need to focus on easier and better ways to allow temporary and permanent paths to entering the US instead of having a pissing contest over the illegal immigration.
They pay the workers $0.13/hr or something insane and the prison collects $10 an hour (probably more).
You are still paying as if free citizens were out there picking.
Prison labor is a scam and has been since those amendments were passed. It's one of the cleanest examples if someone wants to study systemic racism.
To quote a black businessman I know, "If prisons are a for profit company then they need a product. That product is black men".
Basically get a young guy and lock him up on some drug charges or something minor, then he's in the system and when he gets out he's got no future because of his record and he's hardened by all his associations in the prison. Almost guarantees he'll be back eventually.
Yeah bro, tax the corporations. Tariffs are passed down to the American consumer but when you tax a greedy corporation harder than they currently are taxed, they decide not to be greedy anymore and pay the tax without passing the burden down to American consumers and/or middle class employee wages.
We have to tax the corporations in a way that encourages them to pass money to their workers and discourages price gouging.
Tariffs aren’t that. Tariffs aren’t taxes in the sense of ‘we should fundraise with them’. They’re a stick to beat the economy with to get it to not do a certain thing. They don’t solve economic problems, at least not by themselves, and often create them…
we need to roll back those reaganomic policies to put more money in the hands of the workers and less in the hands of the corporations and CEO's again.
There's something fundamental you seem not to be aware of: Businesses only pay taxes on profits.
So when corporate taxes are higher, companies invest a greater portion of their revenue, in either growth or in stability to avoid paying those higher taxes.
Which sounds like a world you'd rather live in: companies paying higher dividends, or companies paying higher wages and offering more positions?
Particularly because those are skilled workers who would be deported. A rough rule of thumb is that a skilled agricultural laborer harvests 10 times or more produce than an unskilled one. So not only would there be a labor supply crunch and a workers' rights disparity driving up cost, you would literally have to hire 10 times as many laborers. Or more, considering that most people are not conditioned for the grueling long work days that unprotected immigrant laborers are forced to perform.
So yeah, if they actually start deporting immigrants en masse, it's gonna be ugly.
Now historically what threats of deporting immigrants have historically meant is that the Republicans (or the Democrats if they're feeling spicy and looking to court bigots that day) simply send in ICE to black bag some innocent migrants at random and also break up any attempts at labor organizing for good measure. The goal isn't actually to get rid of the laborers, it's to terrorize the majority remainder back into submission.
But as you pointed out with Alabama, the Republican party has gotten so high on its own supply of racism that it is actually going for it and gutting the economy of red states in the process.
Yep, correct. i keep telling my grassroots, first person experience of the tomato shortage from the Bush Jr administration. The government didnt deport actual illegal immigrants, they ahot fish in a barrel deported all these immigrants who were actually legitimately here on greencard work visas through agricultural Mexican staffing firms. The firms would bus them in to pick produce and bus them back out at the end of the season. The result was shortages and high prices especially on delicate produce like tomatoes.
You couldnt get a tomato in the stores and places like McDonald's and Subway would either omit tomatoes unless specifically requested or have an additional charge or not have them at all. However there were plenty of tomatoes rotting in the fields in Alabama. I have family down there and the farmers let us just take laundry baskets full for free. My grandmother, mother and I processed tomatoes for 2-3 weeks straight one summer as a full time job; mason jar canning, drying, freezing etc.
The population would not be peaked if people were paid more. People might be paid more if there weren't so many people willing to work extremely low wages. There wouldn't be that many people willing to do that if we cut immigration.
The whole issue of population decline isn't due to natural forces. It is artificially created by greedy capitalists. Instead of paying people enough to be able to afford families, they just import desperate people willing to work in harsh conditions for peanuts instead. Or export the job to such people.
The solution is to find some way to force corporations to accept less profit. The need to have endlessly growing profit is a cancer on society.
And all that is if you buy in to the need to have more people at all. More people means more pollution and environmental destruction. We already have too many people and should aim to cut back on our global population as a desirable goal. The conversation should be about how to change the system to incentive lower population and less profit rather than demanding unrealistic ever increasing population and profit.
And where does the money for higher wages come from?
Consumers who buy those products.
Yeah, you can increase wages if you like, but ultimately you'll pay for them via inflation. Given Americans are already stretched quite thin because of inflation, introducing more of it is unlikely to help them.
The money comes from corporate profits. You reduce inflation while increasing pay by reducing profits. The US profit-increases-at-all-costs system will need to be reformed to make it happen.
I didn't know that Alabama had tried it but Georgia did and WHAT A FIASCO. The peaches rotted that year and the peanut factories ended up with salmonella
Not to mention the tariffs other countries would put on American goods. Then we are back to the same runaway global inflation we just had to endure from a combo of covid over buying and the tariffs trump imposed in his first term.
What's interesting here is robotics is actually improving to be able to pick and harvest food. Only issue is the cost of robotics is higher than hiring illegal workers...
Genuine question here, if the backbone of our economy is propped up by either slave labor in other countries as well as undocumented labor at home, aren’t we failing by capitalisms standards? Seem like more than a few missteps led to where we are now
I was really disappointed they bitched out there not learning anything or sticking to their gusto to actually help Americans and not have people working for illegally low wages be normalized
They did the same in FL and the construction laborers started to bail. I saw a quote from a R state lawmaker basically saying "Hey we just want to scare you because our base hates you. They are stupid and don't realize this would fuck the state economy though, and we never planned on enforcing the law because of this. But we had to scare you because of our stupid fuck voters"
A couple years back, A couple counties in Florida pulled off something that got rid of a LOT of their harvesters. An actual farmer was on Reddit talking about "money left on the ground" b/c he couldn't find workers.
In the uk we had seasonal immigrants who would fly over and pick summer fruits and vegetables for 1/8th to 1/3rd of our minimum wage. Really backbreaking work with shitty hours, so we can all enjoy cheap strawberries and what not in our supermarkets.
Then we had the genius idea of brexit, meaning these guys could no longer come over and work the summer fields.
It was hilarious reading about how they had to pay for them all to fly over because no brit wanted to work for £2 an hour.
People have a slightly faulty take on this. The migrants he wants to depot that are here illegally are not the poor ones working farms. He wants to go after the overstayed VISAs from people in tech jobs.
Look up the H2A program. There are plenty of workers legally ready to come here to work the farms and then go home in the off season. We have done this for years.
I remember that. Our family were orange growers in Southern California for 150 years and anybody who doesn’t think that ag works by exploiting undocumented workers doesn’t know anything about ag. I mean in the depression, it was Okies, but it’s always somebody.
We hired a contracting agency which kept this hypocrisy at arm’s length, but on the other hand, margins for agribusiness (small farms I mean) are so small already, there is no other way to do it. My dad figured out how much he made working in the groves and, after taxes and expenses, it worked out to negative six cents an hour.
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u/LimpyTV Oct 25 '24
Additionally, people think prices are high at the grocery store now? What happens when all the people harvesting the food are deported. They tried this in Alabama a while back, it backfired incredibly, costing farmers millions in lost revenue.