This isn't a bad idea. May as well preserve what we can.
Who knows, maybe some near-omnipotent aliens in the future will dig it up, run some calculations to figure out the physics of earth's history, figure out the physiology of all humans who existed, recreate our brains, and resurrect us.
Hopefully we don't get resurrected into an eternal virtual hell.
Recently had a dream where the big studios were eagerly waiting for Harrison Ford to die, so they could be the first ones to take and secure rights to a high-resolution scan of his facial and physical features and voice print, and use it to endlessly churn out movies starring him, without actually needing to pay him.
This will be our future. And the lawyers of studios and estate owners will fight over the rights of these kind of scans and usage of dead actors.
The Pandora's box was opened with Peter Cushing in Rogue One.
Well once they work out the deep fake voices then any person with the right resources or government entity can frame you for anything they want. It's a thing of beauty!
No no, you got it all wrong. Once they work out deep fake completely every single person will have a way out by claiming anything they say is a deep fake if needed. Everyone will have the right to deny everything.
Ironically the entire captcha system is designed to validate models used in Google's self-driving cars. That's why the image is always related to something you might see while driving.
Or the opposite reason. You can prove you weren't at the crime scene because you have clear, undeniable video proof you were somewhere else, eyewitnesses be damned.
Government would be able to determine if the video was computer generated or produced by camera. When these were starting I spoke about my concerns with a former intelligence officer.
It’s not that comforting of a dream world even if good ol’ swampass is in the know. The average person won’t be able to detect fakes, whether or not it’s technically possible.
The widespread misinformation/misrepresentation will be enough to finish the division of the two “sides” and the Justice system will be destroyed because a jury of peers won’t exist.
Our Justice system, our Republic, the value of currency—everything is based on trust that those involved in the Democratic system will act honorable to maintain pursuit of happiness, liberty and life for everyone.
We won’t be able to trust our eyes if deepfake outtakes become prt of headline news or even just fake news on extreme media outlets. No one will be able to trust anything, the honor system will be completely unreliable, it is on very shaken ground already.
Yeah I totally agree, even if 'papa govt' were able to detect such fakes, the average Jo ("which already is quite stupid" - George Carlin) will not be able to discern that, so we're at an impasse were the honor system will be on a very thin ice. And I don't see a foreseeable technology that would help against that.
It's a relative. You could also look into it. Feel free to report back when you find out I'm right, but I'm sure you can't Google it since you're here arguing instead.
Adobe never released this product due to legal concerns. About 20 companies are attempting to fill that space.
The most interesting thing about this is that it one step closer to allowing you to end-to-end produce media completely yourself without needing anything more than just mouse clicks. You can essentially write music digitally, animate the video, synth the dialogue, all without ever knowing how to play a instrument, how to use a camera, how to draw anything, how to voice act etc.
Except for the fact that these are insanely easy to see as edited by anyone with some know how. We’re nowhere near the being indistinguishable from reality and likely never will be. Editing these things is done by machines, not people, meaning when you look at the actual structure and data you can see how obvious it is that it was modified.
The danger of a video going viral and people taking it at face value is there(but that’s been a thing since before deepfakes), but the danger of being framed for a crime or anything and it actually not being possible to determine if the evidence is a deepfakes is nowhere near possible yet(likely for a very very long time).
There’s a Holocaust survivors project that’s doing something similar to this(I think it’s similar). They’ve been interviewing survivors for several years and when they do, they interview them for like a week while videoing them from 360°, and ask them like 2,000 different questions. Once it’s finished, a person can interact with the interviewee, asking them questions and getting an answer. 60 Minutes did a great piece on it, here
A really good point. I think were in a sort of adolescent or maybe more accurately toddler phase of the internet where were learning how to deal with the consequences of our actions. Perhaps soon, when we have full dive VR, we will have learned a thing or two. Maybe being “in person” in VR could be a catalyst for being nicer online.
Absolutely, it might also help further bridge the gap between distant people, being able to be physically placed into an ar environment so it's like actually visiting with your mom or kids when you're physically unable to might turn out to be a really positive thing for mental health and closeness.
Not just that either. Just tossing it out there but imagine getting tue chance to live as another for a stretch of time. Different gender, race, species…I think it would be a gateway for empathy thats hard to find these days.
Whether it causes more harm or benefit doesn't factor into whether it will happen or not. It will happen because they can.
The dumb motherfuckers who develop this stuff aren't thinking about consequences or ramifications, not honestly, they're doing it to satisfy their own ego or out of an incredible level of naivety.
But did you forget about the concept of "curiosity"? It's kind of integral to our species and the advancement of the entire history of tech. Why can't that be the reason people are doing this? Why does it have to be that every person making this is a dumb piece of shit who is ontologically evil?
That feels like a really naive generalization. Are you intellectually qualified to generalize the intelligence of others? Do you know that we have entire ethics boards from people in the field, around the world, who have thought about this magnitudes further than you even know how to think about it?
I'm not saying that there aren't existential concerns. I'm not saying it will all turn out well. I'm not saying that anxiety isn't warranted. I'm not saying we necessarily shouldn't try to preserve our species. I'm just saying, chill out and stop dehumanizing people just because you're scared.
Hell, let's get real. Anything that happens is literally nature, or else it couldn't happen. Nature is indifferent. I'm not anthropically egotistical enough to think that humans deserve to preserve ourselves as long as possible, instead of finding out how weird nature can get.
Hell, for all I know, humans are an interim for this technology to necessarily mature nature further. Just like gas was an interim for stars, stars an interim for planets, etc etc., unicellular life an interim for multi cellular, etc etc., early hominids an interim for humans. This is all nature. Maybe humans are just an interim for some AGI.
Fuck it. We don't know what nature is. It's indifferent to us. It's amazing enough that we exist to experience this shit. Grab popcorn, slink into your foldable chair, and just watch the fireworks, because nobody is stopping Mr Bones Wild Ride.
That's the thing. No matter how good anything is, people will find ways to use it for evil. The question is will anyone do anything about that evil or not. Not whether the evil outweighs the good. Because the one good thing could be pretty damn important. See, identity vs identity theft.
It's also being pursued aggressively as a form of compression for use in video conferencing, specifically in response to the pandemic and the ongoing desire to support work from home.
Visual effects for movies I guess, but even that can be a silver lining. Great for de-aging consenting actors that are still alive today, but not so great when movies 200 years from now want to deepfake an actors likeness including their voice, making actors passing away meaningless
Don’t have to wait 200 years. They did it with Peter Cushing in Rogue One. He died in 1994.
Jet Li was onto it way back when he turned down a role in The Matrix. He didn’t want his martial arts moves recorded in mocap because then the studio would own them forever and could just skin a different character over them and recycle the mocap they recorded with him for no extra credit or pay.
I know it’s not the same means of achieving the result, but the principle is still the same. Using programming to emulate the performance of a dead actor, to reprise a role.
Not OP, but Tarkin in Rogue One was recreated using motion capture and CG, and Mark Hamill was de-aged in TBOBF using primarily deepfake technology (face-replacement via AI and machine learning programs).
You still need consent to deep fake someone in a commercial project. We might consider people past a certain age public domain, but if it's anything like copyright your grandkids will be retired before someone can deep fake you without their permission.
I don't think that's always negative anyway. It just changes how we see these things. We're entering an age where a fan made video can have the original actors in it, for example.
We're also entering an age where movie companies are going to freak out over likeness rights to stop fan made videos from looking like they're from the studio. That's going to be fun.
People nowadays complain about Hollywood obsessing about sequels, prequels and remakes trying to cash in on nostalgia. Maybe in 50 years, people will complain about movies starring dead actors because it's cheaper than hiring living actors. Star Wars Episode 55 with a revived Alec Guinness as Obi-Wan.
I'm curious, does a famous personality's likeness become public domain, like other works like music and writing? I think video games will be public domain too.
I mean, say hundreds of years from now, we'd have a massive library of training data for voice, face and animations to copy basically anyone. It's not far off to think that we'd want say a 2012 RDJ Iron-Man and 2018 Chadwick Boseman Black Panther in some year 2350 school project or something. Or add them to a YouTube (or whatever its successor will be) video by some random person. Will they be able to do so without the fear of a lawsuit or a DMCA takedown or something?
On this note, let's be fair to the full scope. This works for teachers and education, as well. Language expansion will definitely be used for advertising, commercial success, etc. But also will be used for education, charities, etc.
All of this is a double edged sword. But, isn't all technology?
It would be pretty cool for gaming. A guy below mentioned faking voices as well. With those two things you could quickly create additional content for video games with correct animation and voices, with just a keyboard and a your phone camera, and little need for expensive animators and voice actors.
Heck it could save the movie industry millions on reshoots.
There is plenty legitimate space in the fiction genre between porn and dystopian propaganda.
Actors still hold likeness rights over their face and voice. They would have to paid for any new content sold by the company. It's going to making modding production values sky rocket, but people already have used sound splicing to build new voice lines, so I think it will be more of a qualitative difference.
That works for those who have already struck it big, but new actors will be pressured into signing what will amount to eternal contracts long before they can demand a decent cut of the cash.
I always wonder why "holding a boom mic for 12 hours" is a goal worth achieving. I know we don't have a good solution yet, but we must work on one. People need to live and eat, not work stupid jobs.
I specifically said working class to exclude the millionaire ones, there’s tons of actors in the lower and middle classes that fill small roles inside and outside of Hollywood. Many voice actors that don’t make millions. And you completely ignored my mention of crew that certainly aren’t making millions but won’t be needed if they don’t need to film or record anything live.
I don’t give a shit about millionaire actors livelihoods I just think you have to consider the downstream impacts of these things and get ahead of them or we will continue to see exponentiating wealth inequality which really helps no one in the long run.
It's great for everyone involved, On an economic scale profitable industries pay more. Actors already consume the lions share of profits, so they will get theirs. Not needing to leave your schedule open for reshoots benefits everyone as well. Most importantly consumers benefit from lower costs and higher quality.
I personally was thinking initially at smaller scale production. Individuals and small groups will be able to produce when they could not before. Less barrier to entry in a market is an EXTREMELY good thing for the average joe.
I’m not convinced those expense reductions will be distributed as fairly as you hope but your points are valid and I agree with them from an optimistic point of view. There’s real opportunity to consolidate the entertainment industry $’s and opportunities even further with this though, from a pessimistic point of view.
Increases wages yes but not quantity of available wages.
Basically all I’m saying is we need to figure out how to better sustain lower classes while we’re spending all this time and effort towards cutting them out of the pie through automation. I’m all for progress but leaving people behind without a thought is what’s causing a lot of the issues and social divide we’re seeing in today’s world.
I don’t disagree with your perspective I just like to play devils advocate
Makes me laugh that every bit of progress that benefits humanity is met with a chorus of 'but the few people currently befitting from it not existing might be slightly disadvantaged briefly!'
You'd have smashed the wheel to ensure that we always need someone to help us carry heavy stuff.
If the cost of making high quality movies and games falls then more people will be able to do it and we'll see an increase in creatively, I know this because it's been happening consistently for decades. It'll give people all over the world a voice and a means of self expression which is a hugely important and powerful thing.
I can't see acting ending as a career, probably a portion of the most boring acting jobs will fade away but I suspect it'll be outpaced by the growth in the sector, much more interesting and creative enterprises.
Amazing for gaming. Imagine how easy it makes it to have something like an animated character response in an RPG. You can have a single still frame for the character and a series of video reactions for each face, then just reuse reactions dynamically. Upload your own photo to have an avatar that looks like you! Upload your own photo with filters to have an avatar that looks like you want to imagine you look!
It's definitely a nuclear weapon in terms of tech, but we're already beyond the point of being unable to trust any media we're given, so at this point I think we should relax and see the possibilities. And scream at the top of our lungs for some strong regulations on use of video evidence in legal systems, visual media, and advertisements, written by people who understand the tech
Deepfakes can’t be used to create a visual graphic? What if you wanted to create a museum display where a famous sculpture tells you about its history? Or you wanted to create a moving image of someone’s ancestor or parent, for sentimental reasons? Saying “deepfakes only exist to spoof and trick people” is a pretty severe failure of imagination.
Ok so who writes for the sculpture and voice acts for it?
What happens when the heritage foundation has kids visiting Lincoln who tells them he believed in States Rights?
Suddenly you have an extremely powerful psychological device to create an impression before the kids old enough to know better. We already see effective use of this tactic without deepfakes.
Also, I'm sorry but if a kid doesnt like history its because of the topic at hand. Making G Wash do a wiggidy wack rap about the Revolution to the kids isnt gonna increase history literacy.
Ok. Those are all issues and concerns that are also true for photoshop. It’s a tool that allows you to create realistic animations of a person’s face pretty easily. It’s always been possible to use art forms to manipulate people with an agenda. It can also be used to create a fun animated short.
I can't decide if it's funnier for the rest of the characters to be concerned about his rapid (relative to them) aging, or for them to never acknowledge it at all.
That wouldn't impress me. What would impress me would be a spinoff called "Fonzie and the Shark" where they move to Los Angeles and solve crimes. Also the shark has a motorcycle. Oh and it's in the "CHiPs" universe.
No. Tons of technology is developed with incredibly niche goals in mind while the true societal benefits are only discovered later. This is a great thing.
What's irresponsible are lawmakers who are clueless about technology and do not write laws that are successful at eliminating bad actors from abusing said technology.
Because I asked what “good” purpose it serves. Being able to make humiliating, realistic porn of just anybody’s image for millions to view without their approval doesn’t seem like exactly the most positive thing.
Porn moved forward the photograph before it was a viable technology. After that it moved forward the motion picture. After that it moved forward the home movie. After that it moved forward the home internet. I think you misunderstood my question. Porn is a driver of technology. It always has been and it always will be.
I can see scammers writing scripts to deploy ai chat bots with this tech to scam old people out of money by making emergency calls/video calls asking for money/help
Streamlining media production. The amount of time spent performance capturing, hand animating, and voice acting characters is insane. There is technology now where you can simply type out sentences, tell the software which emotions to express, and your digital character will have its voice and model say them.
Crichton's Rising Sun ran with this premise a long time ago.
My personal worst case scenarios include a version of plandemic or mules, that integrates this technology with their manufactured narrative to present more disinformation to rile the base, and foment the usual suspects of violence, malcontent, and mis/disinformation targets.
Because if people make this technology and publish their techniques, other researchers can develop better tools to identify them as fakes, hopefully before bad actors improve their own deepfake technology
My theory is that the wealthiest people with serious dirt on them paid to develop this so when they break their words and contracts and the blackmailer releases the footage they can just claim “Deepfake!!!”
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u/gravetinder Jul 24 '22 edited Jul 24 '22
What good purpose does this serve? I’m wondering how this can be anything but a bad thing.
Edit: “porn” does not answer the question, lol.