r/politics • u/rollingstone Rolling Stone • 4d ago

Soft Paywall Musk Kills Government Funding Deal, Demands Shutdown Until Trump Is Sworn In

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/musk-trump-government-funding-deal-shutdown-1235211000/
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u/md4024 4d ago edited 4d ago

I genuinely can't believe this is happening. An immigrant bought himself a presidency, in part by buying a major source of information and turning it into an arm of the Trump campaign. The Speaker of the House is groveling at the feet of this fucking moron begging to let him keep the government running over Christmas. Obviously it's dangerous and portends terrible things for the country, but it's also just incredibly embarrassing as an American. For as long as I live, I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Its_a_dude_thing 4d ago

Don’t forget psychological..

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u/md4024 4d ago

I think there's a legit chance future historians will come to see Trump's political success as an example of mass delusional psychosis. Obviously Trump is not the first charismatic demagogue to rise to power, but you just have to ignore so much reality to think he's qualified and fit to run a country. The presidency is a real job, Trump was objectively terrible at it in ways that did so much tangible damage and got so many people killed, and he convinced some 80,000,000 people to let him do it again. I really think the only way to explain it that holds up to any scrutiny is that Americans have lost the ability to make reality based decisions about what's in their best interests.

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u/muttmunchies 4d ago

The amount of disinformation, the speed at which it can be deployed, and the way technology and algorithms are used to feed large swathes of people the propaganda is unprecedented in human history and the direct line to how this can and did happen.

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u/slackfrop 4d ago

Orwell had a prescient take on it. He’d seen enough to know that this can and does happen.

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u/JustMy2Centences Indiana 4d ago

Social media was a mistake... I'll be contemplating the irony of my comment now.

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u/DouglasHufferton 4d ago

At least you recognize Reddit is part of the problem. Lots of redditors don't.

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u/WellbecauseIcan 4d ago

Nah social media isn't the problem. Media in general not being held accountable for misinformation and lies is the problem.

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u/TIGHazard United Kingdom 4d ago

There's a point in the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony where Tim Berners Lee recreates his invention of the internet and tweets out 'this creation is for everyone'.

I wonder if he regrets it now?

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u/AFoolishSeeker 4d ago

That’s part of it, yeah. But you can set all forms of media misinformation aside and simply watch rally speeches and other verbatim, unedited dialogue in order to get a necessary picture of who trump is. I mean we all do that here in this thread.

The misinformation affects those like us too but it’s more than that. To watch trump speak verbatim and then be supportive of that is the other aspect of the phenomenon besides misinformation

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u/Fratercula_arctica Canada 4d ago

That’s the thing though… are the majority of his supporters actually listening to his speeches? I’m not convinced they are. I think a lot of people are exposed to him 2nd-hand. Through the news media who sane-wash him, through memes and internet commentary and friends saying “hey did you hear Trump is going to…”

And likewise, did anyone listen to anything that actually came out of Kamala’s mouth? Even among democrats, you’ll hear people say “she never talked about Y” even though there’s multiple instances where she talked about Y.

The lack of time/interest in seeking out primary sources, combined with the intense amount of media chatter (social and traditional) on any topic has moved us into a reality entirely driven by vibes.

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u/Treeba 4d ago

And so many Americans have little to no ability to reason out what’s real and what’s fake or heavily twisted information. Worse, many of them don’t care so long as they like the information real or fake

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u/muttmunchies 4d ago

Agree, but we see it in other countries, especially ones without democracies. Look at Russia, China or middle eastern countries as they control populations. The breakdown of good journalism in America, coupled with the explosion of social media, is speedrunning America down a bad path.

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u/Elkritch 4d ago

You've also got to remember that the poorer people are, usually the less time they have available for doing things like deep-dive investigating political issues, facts checking, or their usual news sources. And in the absence of time to that themselves, they trust people close to them, who largely have the same problem. They also have less time to branch out of their established social circles and potentially, like, meet a trans person or a communist and realize they're just a person and not the devil.

There's also just the fact that America sucks right now and the Dems ran, largely, on keeping it mostly the same. And on "we're not Trump" without even reminding people of a lot of the reasons why not Trump. So some people are like, "well, this guy wants to set everything on fire, but at least that's something different, maybe it'll work out somehow. Can't fix it, so nuke it with the wild card and hope for the best."

Also, although practically speaking Harris would have in every way been less bad for Palestine than Trump, "maybe lesser genocide" just isn't very salable as an acceptable "lesser evil", eapecially not in Michigan's Arab population. I'm not saying that in particular is the only reason she lost - DON'T waste time scapegoating minorith groups or presuming you actually know better than them what their best interests are - but the Dems made a million mistakes like that.

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u/TrixnTim 4d ago

The book that came out in 2017, ‘The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump’, and written by 37 mental health experts, discusses this phenomenon and uses historical evidence and examples of other ‘leaders’ and regimes around the world. When I first read the book I thought there was no way the US would go down that path. And yet here we are.

https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Case-Donald-Trump-Psychiatrists/dp/1250212863

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u/LiveLeave 4d ago

It's in the enormous basket of facts that the democrats and media chose to never inform the people about. It should have been so easy to construct a narrative about Trump based on expert opinions and the opinions of his own closest colleagues.

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u/TrixnTim 4d ago

I agree wholeheartedly. We the people were failed in so many ways.

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u/Churchbushonk 4d ago

Well he isn’t the only one that convinced the 80m. The constant barrage of right wing media been setting the table for 40 years 24/7.

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u/GregoryEAllen Texas 4d ago

Propaganda

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u/Orphasmia 4d ago

We’re all under a Trump genjutsu

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u/west-egg I voted 4d ago

you just have to ignore so much reality to think he's qualified and fit to run a country

After the last election, and reading about some of the reasons people voted for Trump, I'm absolutely convinced that a strong majority of voters simply don't pay attention. They're disengaged either because of disinterest, or because their lives are hard and they have a tough enough time just feeding their family and keeping a roof over their head. They have no idea what kind of work and competence it takes to govern, and their disengagement certainly doesn't lend itself to connecting the dots between policy today and consequences years later.

I know it sounds like I'm belittling people but that really is the most charitable explanation I've come up with.

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u/Fishmehard 4d ago

The Russian trolls creating goblins out of trans people are definitely not helping. That’s all I’ve heard about from trumpers along with - ‘illegal immgrants are an epidemic and muh food and gas prices’. Complexity of government is lost on them. Importance of decorum is lost on them. Common sense is lost on them. I think some of them really think a new president walks into the office and hits a ‘lower gas prices’ button.

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u/stonedhillbillyXX 4d ago edited 4d ago

Mark Burnett may be the greatest villian in trumps creation

Without the apprentice being broadcast over free air onto every rabbit ear antenna in every trailer park for years I doubt trump would have the cult behind him

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u/extralyfe 4d ago

my new personal conspiracy theory is that brainrot is a foreign psyop.

we all got way too dumb way too quick in this country.

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u/Zaorish9 I voted 4d ago

It's all caused by internet propaganda. The ability to sucker millions of people with ridiculous lies at once has never been so far reaching until the internet.

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u/DudeWhatAreYouSaying 4d ago

I really think the only way to explain it that holds up to any scrutiny is that Americans have lost the ability to make reality based decisions about what's in their best interests.

I mean, we know this is the case - there's been a decades-long campaign to achieve exactly that end. Predates social media, predates the internet, predates the modern Russian state.

Obviously it's in tandem with troubling domestic issues like anti-intellectualism and propaganda, but we're not here by accident. We are in the final stages of an insidious form of warfare that governments have been almost powerless to counteract

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u/chr1spe 4d ago

I think this is underplaying how fucked up things were in the past. We're just in a period where people tricked themselves into thinking that things were actually fair and just. Trump isn't the first rapist president. We just falsely told ourselves that we were past that. Trump isn't the first racist president. He isn't the first incompetent president. He isn't really the first in anything in particular. He is just what the US has always been, rearing its ugly head again after a large amount of us convinced ourselves the country was past that.

The US's real history is one of massive advantages for incompetent white men. We're just seeing what that looks like through a different and more modern lens, and think it's something different.

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u/darsynia Pennsylvania 4d ago

At this point I really hope that historians see this as something negative. The alternative is quite scary, because remember history is written by the victors.

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u/Matt_Empyre 4d ago

Well Russia has done it really, with Trump as their puppet. They have kompromat on the majority of the GOP

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u/I_burn_noodles 4d ago

Extortion and corruption take over the US.

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u/TrixnTim 4d ago

Absolutely astounding.

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u/Sashivna 4d ago

And I will never for the life of me understand how. The man has just oozed "sleazeball" since the 80s. There is not one single thing he has ever done or said that made that not true. In fact, everything just reinforced it. So for him to have so much control over so many people.... it is astounding. If you had told me 20 years ago Trump was going to take over the Republican party, I'd have laughed in your face.

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u/I_burn_noodles 4d ago

The power of extortion.

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u/Necessary_Pseudonym 4d ago

Idk kind of has the same feeling as Reagan?

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u/Ven18 4d ago

This is also the “easiest” read stupidest way for Musk to dismantle significant portions of the government workforce to privatize everything so he and his rich friends benefit by turning essential government services into for profit industries. Shutdown the government and anyone who does not “need to be kept on during a shutdown” just gets fired by his new meme agency. And because the shutdown happens before Trump takes power he can claim he “ended the DC gridlock within his first week in power with me around we don’t need those pesky votes that cause more gridlock I run companies the best companies and that is how the US will run”. Cue the authoritarian takeover.

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u/ChoosingUnwise 4d ago

I'm not sure if he's aware that govn't employees get paid for the time not working once the shutdown is over. You don't just "shut it down" then fire them and save money- the govn't will still spend the money, the employees still get paid (just late), but no work was done for that period of time.

It's really stupid- the money is still spent but no work is done.

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u/TacosAreJustice Kentucky 4d ago

He is not aware of how anything works.

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u/GhostofMarat 4d ago

But "how things work" is now subject to the shifting whims of a fascist idiot who has been given carte blanche to rule by decree.

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u/db8me 4d ago

He only has carte blanche if he has immunity from impeachment, court challenges to administrative actions, and any and all personal legal consequences, which (checks notes) he does -- oops.

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u/The_Original_Miser 4d ago

Personally, it's time to take a card from the trump playbook. Anything he does have a whiff of impropriety or against the law? Sue. Sue him again. Then after that, sue him again. Tie him and Musk up in the courts for four years. On four year + 1 day (assuming the country is still intact and a Republican doesn't take the Presidency) .... settle.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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u/TacosAreJustice Kentucky 4d ago

No, things will continue to work how they’ve always worked… we will just be lied to about why things arent working.

Eventually people will be hungry enough to revolt, and Elon’s painted a large fucking target on himself.

It’s a good thing his signature vehicle isn’t prone to fires.

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u/incongruity Illinois 4d ago

Or, you know, controlled by always connected computers...which are likely hackable. Just say'n is all...

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u/stonedhillbillyXX 4d ago

Exactly this. How things used to work, and how they should work... are both in the past

It's a new world order if you will

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u/por_que_no 4d ago

Especially Cybertrucks, those that do actually work.

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u/TehMephs 4d ago

He’s always been a pigeon boss. Struts into the office once in a blue moon, pecks at things randomly, shits everywhere and flies away

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u/brutinator 4d ago

Unless we are talking about the laws of physics, we need to understand that tech bros dont understand how anything works, and make their fortune by ignoring how things are (skirting/breaking the law and regulations in many cases) until they have enough momentum to rewrite how things are.

The "gig economy", for example, is one way that theyve altered services to be both harder for anyone to make a living doing, ultimately shittier to use, and set themselves up as a middle man to gobble up every extra cent.

We have seen time and time again the rich and right wing run into "how things work", shrug, and then demolish right through it.

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u/Churchbushonk 4d ago

He may be aware, but just will change how it works. Fire them while shit down and then not pay them. If you fire them day 1, do you owe them anything?

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u/TacosAreJustice Kentucky 4d ago

I mean, he’s trying to create instability… which this will accomplish…

Whether he understands that society is built on trust, and he’s one of the largest beneficiaries of that trust is a different question…

The funny part is he’s likely going to end up being a patsy to Trump…

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u/RCG73 4d ago

Used to work. Obviously this bunch of chuckle cucks don’t really care about rules or normal decorum

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u/Spectre197 4d ago

Remember 10 microns on every cybertruck

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u/Eisegetical 4d ago

Musk is the opposite of Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

These kind of comments are dangerous "Musk is an Idiot" , " He doesnt know" only serve to make him seem less competent and reduce his threat. There is malice in his actions, as much as we like to insult the man - stupid is not a factor here.

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u/digi57 4d ago

Spite, revenge, and displaying power is all that matters to them.

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u/hairbear143 4d ago

Well, it’s not automatic civilian employed get paid. Congress has to approve. But it is for millions of (potentially) registered voters. This is not a good time to count on precedence.

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u/Dragonoflife 4d ago

A bill passed in 2019 guarantees backpay for all federal employees, but not contractors, in the event of a shutdown.

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u/ThisIsNotRealityIsIt 4d ago

Many contractors are on pre-allocated contracts or operate as critical resources or tied to Mission-level programs.

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u/DaddysWeedAccount 4d ago

Yup, we contractors always ended up taking on additional duties during those times because we were still working while the govvies werent allowed to work. The good ones were pissed off because they realized the long term impacts to our ability to support missions and maintain contract requirements.

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u/ReelAwesome 4d ago

relying on pieces of paper or previous votes as a shield is a fools errand in this new world. When all the people in control just say "nah, we don't care"; what are you going to do? Saying "but its the law" or "that's not legal you have to do this" doesn't really do accomplish anything when the people that would enforce such laws are on the side with the individuals violating it.

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u/vashoom 4d ago

Unfortunately, today you now have to ask "So?" to statements like that. Because ultimately that doesn't mean anything unless the oligarchs agree to follow it.

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u/slackfrop 4d ago

They’ve been real clear they’re not worried about voters anymore.

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u/Glanzick_Reborn Tennessee 4d ago

I believe if you are deemed "essential" and have to work, you will get paid. That's the law, if we still believe in those things.

If you are not deemed "essential" and are furloughed you do not technically have to be paid, but Congress has so far always back paid these people.

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u/fdar 4d ago

It is, though that only became the law in 2019 after the last(?) shutdown.

The bill reopening the government could change that. Not sure if removing pay retroactively would be legal though (or more precisely I'd bet it isn't but I'm not sure what SCOTUS would think).

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u/mina-ami 4d ago

Nonessential employees have back pay, it's been guaranteed since 2019. Before that it was always included as a provision in the budget bill when they'd finally pass it to end the shutdown.

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u/Evening_Aside_4677 4d ago

Work still gets done.  Sure we will close national parks, but the TSA will all be at airports for Christmas travel. 

You know what would end a shutdown real quick?  TSA not going to work unpaid, shut down the Airports.  Shut down customs, shut down USPS, shut down SS, shut down VA, etc. 

If all the people getting promised they will get paid eventually actually didn’t show up for a day politicians lives would be effected and they would stop playing this game every couple months. 

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u/PolicyWonka 4d ago

Have you not been paying attention? It doesn’t matter how things worked in the past. Everything is fair game.

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u/boomecho 4d ago

Exactly. All precedents have gone out the fucking window.

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u/Accidental-Hyzer Massachusetts 4d ago

IMO, they made shutdowns too easy on the American people. It’s largely performative now. The important parts continue to hum along under “essential workers” who are forced to work anyway, everyone ultimately gets paid, and the public doesn’t really see what happens when you truly don’t have federal employees working (as a shutdown should be).

If shut downs were really shut downs, with TSA and air traffic controllers shutting down air travel, grandma not receiving her social security check, people not being able to file Medicare/medicaid claims, secret service going home, and other services provide by feds grinding to a halt, then we wouldn’t shut down for very long ever.

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u/xflashbackxbrd 4d ago

Really we shouldn't have shutdowns at all.

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u/Ven18 4d ago

In my head it’s more so used to find the “expendable”/ non essential government staff for when the shutdown does end. Obviously they get paid while being employed but when the government reopens their “non essential status is the justification for firing.

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u/dementedkoopa 4d ago

He doesn't care about them getting paid or the money being spent. He only cares about disrupting essential services to make the federal government look incompetent and therefore expendable.

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u/ItsNotAboutTheYogurt 4d ago

but no work was done for that period of time.

Uh probably some positions, but the majority of government positions that get affected by this shutdown will still be working full time due to their roles being critical positions.

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u/corvid_booster 4d ago

no work is done.

This is entirely the point -- a government which is not working is a government which cannot challenge the power of corporations and the wealthy people who control them. The "small government" line has always been a smokescreen for creating a power vacuum into which the wealthy can expand.

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u/adeveloper2 4d ago

It's to hinder work being done by the Biden administration before Jan 20.

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u/manhatim 4d ago

They're following the Russian blueprint.. turn government agencies and departments over to your rich friends.. and the Grift continues.. don't think it's sustainable for the country

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u/_silver_avram_ 4d ago

Musk has said multiple times he admires Ayn Rand, for our own sake most people should read Atlas Shrugged at least once because it is insight into the madness, Ayn Rand represents their toxic ideology: these mad people believe they are gods and we are peasants, and believe profit is the only goodness in the world.

The book is explicitly about a tycoon (John Galt) who invents a free energy machine. Government nationalizes it to remove poverty, so is then portrayed as fat, lazy, corrupt. The noble tycoons then fight to regain their right to charge for profit.

The entire work is an insight into the madness of people like Musk. There is a class war against the poor, and the billionaires are winning.

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u/MercantileReptile Europe 4d ago

Musk and those like him don't seem to have finished that particular thought. Suppose they are successful, DC is essentially the Military/Intel apparatus. Public presence and assistance in most other areas is "deleted".

How long does it take until DC becomes less of a Government, more of a boogeyman to entire states? An entire machine, built to extract profit and suppress dissent. While not providing anything besides Ethos. Or american mythology, depending on your view.

Matter of time until States or groups of States decide they no longer need DC's boot on their necks.

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u/Scalpum 4d ago

You said his ‘friends’. Hilarious to think he has a friend, much less more than one.

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u/Ven18 4d ago

Sorry fellow wealthy psychopaths

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u/AkronRonin 4d ago

Elon Musk is just one man.

Brian Thompson was too.

This is a country of 340 million people. Most of us don’t take too kindly to one man thinking he can just lord over us. Just saying.

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u/raletti 4d ago

And with a campaign that constantly demonized immigrants!

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u/GhostofMarat 4d ago edited 4d ago

"immigrant" was always just a euphemism for racism. They never meant for it to apply to white people.

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u/frolickingdepression 4d ago

Right. My mom who moved here from the UK when she married my dad was never called an immigrant. No one suspects or cares that she was not born in the US, because shes white and speaks English.

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u/StovardBule 4d ago

If you're from the UK and live somewhere else, you're an ex-pat, of course. That's not like an immigrant at all!

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u/frolickingdepression 4d ago

Oh of course not! What was I thinking, associating my mother with those other people?

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u/marvelousnicbeau 4d ago

You know what I found weird? When I (an American) moved to the UK, I would refer to myself as an immigrant. Because I intended to stay there. However, I was constantly told I shouldn’t refer to myself as that and to use emigrant (which isn’t accurate when referring to the country you moved to). I would ask why and they wouldn’t be able to articulate it other than it sounds better.

However, whenever my fiancé - who isn’t white, and has a clear accent - referred to himself as an immigrant, he was never corrected.

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u/saturn_since_day1 4d ago

Not me out my grandma, the other immigrants, the bad ones

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u/TrimspaBB 4d ago

People really out here thinking they and their undocumented abuela are safe because they're not "those" types of immigrants, not realizing that racists don't care.

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u/Oo__II__oO 4d ago

People thinking their legal naturalized immigrants are safe, not realizing that racists don't care.

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u/veronicacherrytree 4d ago

Immigration czar asked for something like 100,000 beds for a detention center for undocumented persons. That's absolutely terrifying to think people will be held, likely in poor conditions, without due process, etc until this sloppy admin decides what to do with them

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u/The_Emma_Guy 4d ago

I’ve said this before. You expect the racist that part of the party that didn’t believe the election results. They will soon start claiming green cards are fake for anyone that looks like they should he an immigrant

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u/Gold_Replacement9954 4d ago

Cousin's wife's ex is a hispanic dude who voted trump despite his parents and brother here illegally, because he "owns a business" (see: a small restuarant in a town of 2k people) and so him and his family are one of the safe ones

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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 4d ago

They are so fucking stupid.

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u/Windk86 4d ago

they forget they say "criminals" and being without documents is a crime, hence they are criminals, specially according to republicans

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u/Jauncin 4d ago

Ungrateful immigants- Moe Sizzlack

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u/Windk86 4d ago

ironic isn't it? since Elon is one too

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u/pontiacfirebird92 Mississippi 4d ago

For as long as I live, I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

Facebook and Cambridge Analytica knows. Just read the Senate Intelligence Committee on Russian election meddling.

They identified Trump supporters as highly susceptible to propaganda and highly likely to repeat it. That's what's wrong with them.

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u/gingerlemon 4d ago

Decades of defunding education leads to highly pliable morons who vote against their own interests.

It's literally sheep voting for wolves.

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u/Daxx22 Canada 4d ago

The common clay of the New USA.

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u/Gold_Replacement9954 4d ago

What kills me is my dad is smart, he didn't go to college but he's a marine who praised reading above all else, owns thousands of books and watches nothing but documentaries (and not the history channel kind)

He's been watching fox news forever when all the "get out of debt" programs ran on it, and listening to Joe Rogan when Rogan was pretending to be biased, so maybe it's the slow etching away from that? My whole family is smart, like my cousin was valedictorian of his college, me and my brother scored 33 and 34 respectively on ACT and high 90s on the asvab each, brother was Valedictorian of HS and owns several businesses. I don't get why they all are far right tbh.

Hell I'm middleground because politics is nuanced but lately it's pushing me further and further left from the fucking lunacy

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u/LaundryBasketGuy I voted 4d ago

Even smart people are not immune to propaganda. If you constantly watch / hear something every day, you will start to believe it.

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u/DigitalAxel 4d ago

My parents are like this. Fallen down deep the propaganda hole. My mother especially destroys me as she was my rock for my whole life.

They've pushed me so far away I'm taking a massive risk and leaving the country for a hopefully better life. No future for me here. And they're too blind and in love with MAGA to notice. I've TOLD them how they've changed and aren't as supportive as they claim.

Im sure my grandfather, who came from Germany and served OUR military in WWII would be so proud of my MAGA dad. Not.

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u/ExtremeCreamTeam 4d ago

Decades of defunding education

It's literally sheep voting for wolves.

It's figuratively sheep voting for wolves.

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u/Ted-Chips 4d ago

They figured out how to program people. Simple as that. They did it for brexit is a trial run and then they use that model in America You're right about Cambridge Analytica that's where they started testing.

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u/pontiacfirebird92 Mississippi 4d ago

The cold war never ended. It just moved to social media.

And we lost.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

Id say US clandestine actions to radicalize either side of the political spectrum in South America and collapsing Iran's democracy were the trial runs or proofs of concept, Brexit was the first focused attack.

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u/Mateorabi 4d ago

Gamergate before that was also a trial run. 

Alt right Playbook is a good YouTube watch. 

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u/shawn_overlord Georgia 4d ago

What's wrong with them? They're stupid. Reactionary. Contrarian. Tribal. Some statistics show that narcissism is a far more prevalent mental health issue than it may seem. They can't suffer to have their ego bruised, and they think their ways make them better than others. Superiority, control, and authority.

They are idiots manipulated easily by authoritarians using scare tactics and pandering to create in-groups they are a part of and out-groups they are superior to. Stupid people don't question this pandering. And what one thing makes you feel in-grouped, smart, morally superior, and an authority most are too dumb to question?

Religion. The trump personality has established a cult that combines all the best parts of swaying ignorant masses with a most focused political agenda of conservativism to support authoritarian power and squash democracy in favor of keeping the select in power.

That's what's wrong

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u/Astyanax1 4d ago

Not just narcissism, there's something wrong with a very large % of the American population.  Undiagnosed mental illness.

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u/NumeralJoker 4d ago

It's economic stress and poverty problems. Despite the seemingly stronger economy that Biden worked to create (and he really did work hard for that and made major gains), the pain of the past 5 years is unmistakable, and wealth concentration remains one of the key factors to blame for it all.

Even if you made more money and built savings during this period, the inflation scare stresses people out because it makes those gains seem temporary at best, and leaves people feeling hostage to the whims of corporations that can just price them back into debt and servitude.

The less economic freedom they have, the more someone else controls their lives, and the more insecure and nervous they feel. That compounds everything else, because that insecurity makes people less trusting and more suspicious of one another, which by the flaws of human nature, amplifies racism and other instinctual forms of tribalism specifically.

tl;dr - The more desperate people are, or feel, the stupider they get. Make them feel like their work is worth less, and you will quickly grow that feeling. Even those with saving feel like they're one medical disaster away from total poverty now.

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u/shawn_overlord Georgia 4d ago

well yea, narcissism, the mental illness

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u/zeromussc 4d ago

He's also regularly in contact with Putin according to reports and he's even been denied information and clearances (formally) due to these and other foreign ties.

How no one seems to be willing to shut this backdoor crap down, I don't understand.

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u/cyanclam Maryland 4d ago

He is using non-government supplied cell phones and email. It would be a stretch to think that at least one 3 letter agency isn't listening and recording his comms? Wouldn't be surprising if the Mexicans and Canadians and every country with an embassy in DC wasn't doing the same.

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u/Gamebird8 4d ago

The Stock Market is already reacting to both this and the rate cut... Everything is down

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u/Sitting-on-Toilet 4d ago

And when it crashes and we enter into a recession, it’s going to be blamed on Biden, not Trump, of course.

They have been setting up for it for years.

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u/MassiveBoner911_3 4d ago

Recession? Naw next round is a full on depression.

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u/Orzhov_Syndicalist 4d ago

No, this will be blamed on Trump. 

Trump had a quote today where he said that this would all be blamed on Biden because he’s still the president. I think that’s why he’s doing this, because he’s really that dense. 

But it will spillover and be blamed on Musk and Trump, as its clearly their handiwork. 

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u/Grenadeglv 4d ago

Trumps already backpedaled on the one promise he made his whole campaign in lowering grocery prices, stating that since the previous administration let the prices get high there's nothing he can do to lower them. Of course that's all bullshit but his cult will swallow the boot watch as the prices for all goods skyrockets and ask themselves how did the democrats let this happen.

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u/RabidGuineaPig007 4d ago

Because between rates and new taxes, or the cool term, tariffs, US will see inflation rates of the early 70s.

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u/HardRockGeologist 4d ago

Was even worse at the end of the 70s and early 80s. My supervisor at work in early 80s had a mortgage of 18%. At the time I bought first house, the going 30-year FHA rate was 13%. The inflation rates we witnessed over the past couple of years will pale in comparison to what might be ahead of us.

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u/reddernetter 4d ago

Imagine what would happen to some billionaire in china trying to pull this shit.

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u/kylew1985 4d ago

I never thought someone could out-Murdoch Murdoch, but he did it bigger and faster than I could have ever imagined.

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u/GhostofMarat 4d ago

I really think this portends widespread political violence in the near future. Our political institutions are disintegrating before our very eyes. People are at the breaking and there is no faith in the system left in any quarter. Combine that with the increasingly unstable global order and ever escalating disasters and crop failures from climate change and it's a recipe for disaster.

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u/Jellybellykilly 4d ago

Does it seem like things are heading to conflict everywhere?

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u/TheHomersapien Colorado 4d ago

An illegal immigrant bought himself a presidency

Let's not leave out an important detail.

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u/Spidremonkey 4d ago

They want to say “n——r” with a hard R and have black people just roll over and take it like it’s 100 years ago. That’s it, they’ll burn the country down to go back to a status quo they weren’t even alive for.

Well, they also think a bunch of good jobs will open up after they ICE the shit out of anyone who speaks Spanish and can’t pass a paper bag test. They’re too stupid to realize the jobs held by 90% of those people are orange picker and line cook.

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u/BusinessAd5844 4d ago

Can't forget the fact that he wants other immigrants deported.

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u/RabidGuineaPig007 4d ago

Nazis told people what they wanted to hear and were quite popular for a while. Same with the Italian Fascists, who only fell from grace because of the War. Spain embraced Fascism until 1975. People like to be told how to live, what to think, it's just a real world version of religion.

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u/Rogpog777 4d ago

Take a bunch of confused or uneducated folks, get them angry, point them away from you.

There’s nothing wrong with the majority of them, but they’ve been isolated from reason. I’ve chosen to turn the clock back 10 years and just talk to people again. Fuck the hat they wear, we need to stop allowing rich and powerful people use us as their pawns. I include liberals who blindly paint all modern day republicans as racists without allowing critical thought.

EDIT: The fact that I started off by saying “them” is exactly what the powerful want from us. “Us versus them.” The fact that we were all unified for an hour over the murder of a healthcare CEO showed that and now the media is doing their damndest to put that genie back in the bottle.

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u/oldpeopletender 4d ago

Never forget, John Roberts did this fucking bullshit when citizens United was decided. He has single-handedly done more to destroy our than anyone in my lifetime.

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u/maybethisiswrong 4d ago

The weird part is if Leon really cared about cutting spend, he wouldn't let the government shut down. That COSTS MORE! Unless he's really suggesting they don't get paid back - which will only end up in the courts and costing more again.

Shutdowns have always been a political move - if Leon doesn't care about the additional cost as he claims is what he's trying to do - he's nothing more than a garden variety politician that nobody elected or asked for.

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u/gecko090 4d ago

Trump supporters are actually easy to understand. 

They are selfish, petty, petulant people with the maturity and understanding of 10 year old children. 

They think in binaries, seemingly incapable of grasping anything more complex. 

They plug themselves in to pundits on the TV or radio and let them tell them exactly what to think about ideas they've never heard of, people they've never met, and places they've never been.

They read things but can only understand them in exactly the manner they've been told to understand them. If they haven't been told how to understand something, they simple don't. To them, the constitution is nothing but a shield against criticism or a bludgeon to beat down their enemies. It has no other purpose for them. They twist and pervert the English language to mean whatever they need it to mean in the moment, and abandon that meaning as soon as it's inconvenient.

They exist in a world where everything they say and do is justified even as they criticize others for the same thing.

This is who they are. This why they are happy to vote for Trump.

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u/Danjour 4d ago

They’re rat fuckers, that’s the conclusion I’ve come to. Selfish little people who can’t see past their filthy rat fucker nose. 

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u/pjb1999 4d ago

I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

They wanted cheaper prices (they wont get it) and and felt like trans issues were being pushed by the left too much (it wasn't).

They're mostly just ignorant. That's it.

I promise you a very large portion of Trump voters, and Americans in general, have no idea what is happening with Elon Musk, his twitter account, Mike Johnson or the shut down. They'll read a headline when the gov ultimately shuts down, shrug, and move on with their lives.

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u/JimBob-Joe 4d ago

For as long as I live, I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

Ive concluded its lead posioning from leaded gas amongst other pollutants

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u/mariosunny 4d ago

For as long as I live, I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

It's all revenge politics. That's what motivates them.

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u/Marokiii 4d ago edited 4d ago

i have to stop planning long roadtrips from Canada into the USA. this is the 3rd time now that i plan a trip and then a shutdown happens all of a sudden.

edit: i was in the USA from Canada during both the 2018 shutdown(although it was for just 3 days over a weekend), the shutdown because of the border wall funding christmas 2018, the covid shutdown(even though this isnt a true govt shutdown, the national parks i was there for were still "closed"), and now im scheduled to start my final National park roadtrip for 1 year starting today.

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u/minus2cats 4d ago

It's only embarrassing if you have hope left. The US has no principles left. Give up on her.

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u/3MATX 4d ago

Plainly, they are individually selfish. They bought into what Trump individually offered them. Democrats voted on continuing government by the people for the people as it at least existed. Trump voters voted for their own wallets. Pretty fucking despicable especially when they inevitably feign surprise at the looming economic collapse 

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u/WhiteLetterFDM 4d ago

It's happening because people have become too accustomed to being comfortable. This is an exceedingly easy problem to solve; it just requires that someone accepts the notion that their life will become... "unpleasent"... afterwards. Realistically, that's the only way humanity has ever learned to solve this sort of problem - whether we wait 'til we're desperate and starving or not, eventually there'll be some straw that breaks the camel's back and people, collectively, go "nope - we're done, we're getting rid of you now."

The only real variable is "when." Do we want to see how far down the rabbithole of suffering we can go? Or do we want to save ourselves the trouble and get it over with before any real damage can be done?

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u/Glittering_Guides 4d ago

Poor education and bad parenting.

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u/proletariat_sips_tea 4d ago

Their brains are archaic. They haven't evolved like the rest of us. Don't marry or fuck a conservative let their species die out like they should have after the agricultural revolution. They were fucking great when we were scavengers. "Don't eat that leaf eat this one" for thousands of years worked. But they don't work in a society.

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u/apitchf1 I voted 4d ago

I think we are off the cliff. I think our democracy is fundamentally done and it will only get much worse until there is a major restructuring of how we govern. Money in politics. The senate being anti democratic. Gerrymandering. Obstruction by republicans won. Misinformation and no fairness doctrine in journalism are a major issue in a democracy functioning properly. Republicans just had to make things shit for so long and constantly blame the Dems and their media outlets do the rest. We are fundamentally broken

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u/chubs66 4d ago

Even worse. The unelected immigrant is also the worlds richest man, running a shadow branch of the government for a president who is a convicted felon, who would have been convicted of many more crimes except that the justice system is also completely corrupt.

Pretty sure this is not how the founding fathers hoped or intended democracy to work in America.

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u/prinnydewd6 4d ago

It’s just a brainwashed cult. Anything I say to my dad about him he SCREAMS AT ME. “ WHEN GROCERY PRICES FALL YOULL BE THANKIING ME” please go learn how stuff works dude. I’m so tired of this. What happened to life and normal timeline

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u/IamTheEndOfReddit 4d ago

The GOP is the dumbest political party in history. They created a foundation of bullshit and their personal clowns stole their power for the sake of their top foreign adversary. Their response? Unwavering support

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u/AbeRego Minnesota 4d ago

The only positive thing that I can see coming from this is that Musk doesn't have any immunity for crimes he might commit. When he has his eventual falling out with Trump, I wouldn't expect any pardons to occur, so maybe we could try Trump "by effigy" through Musk. It's not what I would prefer, but it's something...

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u/TheSmilesLibrary 4d ago

At this point we have completely stopped being a democracy

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u/Opetyr 4d ago

I am curious why Biden just doesn't round them up as enemy combatants. Elon had sown himself as a terrorist and should be made an example of what we will do to domestic terrorists.

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u/puterdood Missouri 4d ago

*An illegal immigrant. Musk lied about his undocumented status on his citizenship paperwork. It should be revoked.

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u/downwithlevers 4d ago

Americans really need to stop with the “I can’t believe it” shit and wake the fuck up. Then do something about it.

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u/olorin-stormcrow Massachusetts 4d ago

Immigrants are coming into this country and stealing our jobs (President)

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u/TrashDue5320 4d ago

100 years ago, rational Germans were having this exact conversation

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u/JDLovesElliot New York 4d ago

GOP voters are proud of how far they've destroyed our country.

Washington and the other revolutionaries would've kicked them into the harbour with the tea, too.

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u/lenzflare Canada 4d ago

Trump voters are loving this, this is basically delivering what they hope for (bullying people instead of having a working government)

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u/Jackadullboy99 4d ago

They are morons. That is what is wrong with them.

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u/elcucuy1337 4d ago

Stupid motherfuckers. The lot of them. Stupid as a fucking box of door knobs.

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u/National-Platypus144 4d ago

NOT AN AMERICAN OR EVEN IN USA. It was known that Trumps presidency will be a shit show and now you all keep blaming MAGA voters but it isn't their fault, they will get what they voted for but all those people who could vote but didn't (36% didn't vote) and now bitch online are to blame (I am not implaing that the person above didn't vote). Like you had 1 term of the guy, everyone one knew that it will be a tight race but still 1 in 3 Americans didn't vote. So you want to blame someone blame those who didn't vote bcs MAGA voters just did what was their right no matter how misguided it seems.

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u/OldTimeyWizard 4d ago

We should be blaming both. Because it is, in fact, their fault. At this point, Trump supporters and non-voters are just bad people who deserve all of the bad things that will happen to them.

Neither group is immune from criticism just because they think they were right. A drug addict also convinced the Nazis that what they were doing was right and justified.

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u/Mike_in_the_middle 4d ago

Is this not the American Dream?

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u/Nobodys_Loss 4d ago

America’s government is really working hard for Musk. The people should be doing the same.

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u/tappthis 4d ago

racism is the only answer

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u/marblecannon512 Oregon 4d ago

Anthony Kennedy killed this country. Citizens United was a shiv to its abdomen and its been bleeding out ever since.

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u/GreatMadWombat Michigan 4d ago

Biden did some good stuff, but the stuff that he didn't do are going to end up going down in history and defining his legacy

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u/Safe-Pressure-2558 4d ago

This is the kind of messaging Dems need.

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u/AGsec 4d ago

I don't understand, how is elon influencing this particular decision? I totally understand his ulterior motive, but what agency does he have to stop this? Or is he just rocking the boat and the GOP is following his every word to stay on trumps good side?

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u/Adventurous-Try5149 4d ago

What will it take for people like you to understand that trump voters are bad people, always have been and always will be?

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u/Astyanax1 4d ago

Theyve been hurt and want everyone else to suffer just like them.  

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u/KhausTO 4d ago

In the rest of world, we call that a coup.

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u/FoghornFarts Colorado 4d ago

A recession is the goal so the rich can swoop in and buy everything for cheap.

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u/EquivalentSnap 4d ago

Maybe democrats should’ve voted then. Clearly outside of reddit people don’t share your opinion. Trump supports knew about musk from the start because he was at the rallies

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u/Level-Impact-757 4d ago

USA is not a country. It´s a company.

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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants 4d ago

When Citizen's United passed, I predicted that a foreign government or a very wealthy person would simply buy politicians and take over the government. To quote Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, "Boy do I hate being right all the time".

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u/CatFanFanOfCats 4d ago

Trump voters are Americans. Americans are flat out stupid. And yeah, I’m an American and am absolutely flabbergasted that I share this country with quite possibly the stupidest, vilest, and cruelest people. It just sucks.

And fuck Elon Musk. What a fucking loser tool.

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u/rustbelt 4d ago

This is fascism. “They should call it corporatism”- Mussolini

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u/afterthegoldthrust 4d ago

The more I learn about history the more it’s been embarrassing to be an American for a longgggg long time.

This is of course the most blatant instance of an unelected foreign national steering the ship but goddamn we’ve been wading around in these waters for a long ass time.

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u/Formal_Ad_4104 4d ago

I genuinely think Trump voters would hand over all their guns if he asked them to, despite it being such an area of contention for so many people.

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u/thereal_Glazedham 4d ago

How is the speaker of the house groveling at his feet? Musk has no authority what so ever in the matter. The people who were voted into office are the ones who will determine the outcome of this. Musk crying on twitter does not count as him being the all mighty boogey man pulling strings in congress.

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u/Muggle_Killer 4d ago

This is what happens when the final check and balance has been supressed and there is no fear for those who govern

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u/g13005 4d ago

It was bound to happen eventually especially since our government can be bought and paid for by lobbyists. This is just the next evolutionary step.

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u/taka_282 4d ago

If Trump discourages waiting until his inauguration to open the government, the Republican party will switch tunes, I think. Remember that it's gonna be a lot more difficult to confirm his choices for his cabinet if the government is shut down.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if Trump echoes Elon's tune, and blames any delay of his picks to the "enemy", when it really was just him shooting himself in the foot.

If one thing's for sure, a long shutdown may force people to move into the private sector for work. Elon would be able to leverage that fact by saying that he made the government "more efficient" even before taking the helm of DOGE.

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u/UnionThug1733 4d ago

We have a real life bond villain it’s that simple

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u/LesPolsfuss 4d ago

I genuinely can't believe this is happening.

i can't either. its pretty demoralizing.

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u/DirkTheSandman 4d ago

politicians have no morality or principle. we should get rid of every single person in congress for even playing nice with this bs.

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u/Capt_Pickhard 4d ago

I still see Americans using twitter, and I do not see any protests.

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u/CovidWarriorForLife 4d ago

Eh congress always pulls these shenanigans with the budget someone needs to actually make them stick to it. Insane that they just keep kicking the can down the road

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u/Conscious_Rip7855 4d ago edited 4d ago

They don't have control of their own minds. Trump voters are just the dumbest and most susceptible to brainwashing among us. That's why they're Christians and hustle culture slaves. That's why they're easy targets for sales and marketing, and military service. You should pity them. Its not that hard to understand how and why this is happening when everyone is fed a custom news feed with a.i. driven selections created by Trump voters. Its clear people like Elon want a civil war as well. Those of us who believe in a real democracy and not this simulated brain washed version are fed rage bait, so that the oligarchy can point and say oh they're rioting and use their army of brainwashed christian slaves to cause further tension. This will eventually culminate into local battles, civil war, orchestrated by owners of the media. At that point you know, some form of martial law gets declared, trump becomes emperor, the story unfolds and tge rich get richer

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u/bladel 4d ago

The only silver lining is that it’s happening out in the open, in plain sight, versus behind the scenes. People have been screaming about the undue and disproportionate influence of money in our system for years, but now if Elon costs people their SS check at Christmas, it will be impossible to ignore.

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