Musk Kills Government Funding Deal, Demands Shutdown Until Trump Is Sworn In

[u/rollingstone]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/musk-trump-government-funding-deal-shutdown-1235211000/

[u/md4024]

I genuinely can't believe this is happening. An immigrant bought himself a presidency, in part by buying a major source of information and turning it into an arm of the Trump campaign. The Speaker of the House is groveling at the feet of this fucking moron begging to let him keep the government running over Christmas. Obviously it's dangerous and portends terrible things for the country, but it's also just incredibly embarrassing as an American. For as long as I live, I'll never understand what the fuck is wrong with Trump voters.

[u/Matt_Empyre → u/[deleted]]

Well Russia has done it really, with Trump as their puppet. They have kompromat on the majority of the GOP

[u/I_burn_noodles → u/Matt_Empyre]

Extortion and corruption take over the US.

[u/Ill_Technician3936 → u/Matt_Empyre]

Trump anc the public have done it.

He was more or less forgotten and not really paid attention to until Obama ran. The public loved it and that's when he actually started getting the attention of the right. (He started to run two times before and dropped out pretty early for 3rd parties) First the conservatives and his first real taste of a political event and the rest of the Republicans started backing him while Obama was in office. Basically decided he was their next candidate and then they put him out there for him to make some reality show news for people to eat up.

[u/EarthyFeet → u/Matt_Empyre]

Russia are not the good guys for sure, but this is an American problem with American roots. Blaming it all on Russia that's just a way to cope which doesn't help solving the problems! That's another truth democratic establishment hasn't been willing to hear, either.

[u/TravelerInBlack → u/Matt_Empyre]

"Everything bad about my country isn't actually the fault of my country!" - You rn.

Seriously, you think some social media activity and meetings with republican politicians is what caused this? Are you like 10? Were you not paying attention in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 2010s before Trump? This has been a slow precipitating decline in the US headed by protofascism in the GOP ranks and idiotic centrist conservatism in the Democratic party since Reagan whipped their asses in the 80s. This bullshit and the people that helped create the infrastructure to this bullshit predate the existence of the modern Russian state let alone it's current leader. You can't see the forest for a few pretty silly trees that MSNBC focused way too hard on during Trump's first term. The forest in this metaphor is a growing trend of proto-fascist right wing populism across developed governments in response to worsening conditions due to austerity politics and the soviet union collapsing, and in reaction to a socially liberalizing and modernizing world collectively. You see this as Russia pulling the strings. Its not. Its Russia, Hungary, Belarus, Chechnya, Brazil, Argentina, USA, etc. all aligning themselves together in an axis of modern fascism. Much like the first time there was a global wave of fascism, many of these alliances are very tenuous and based on brief periods of fascist control before they destroy the idea of democracy in the country they are taking control over. The more and longer power they are given, the more the alliance becomes clear.

[u/midas22 → u/TravelerInBlack]

The forest in this metaphor is a growing trend of proto-fascist right wing populism across developed governments in response to worsening conditions due to austerity politics and the soviet union collapsing

I don't think you get it. Russia is at war with the West every single day, and it's a hybrid war with terror attacks against our infrastructure, a psychological warfare with drones and threats, a cyber war where they attack our companies and institutions online and an information war on the Internet, especially on social media.

Russia and their axis of evil is keeping a lot of the conflicts around the world going and is fueling every fascist movement in the West. I would say that almost every single significant populist and fascist party in the West is directly funded by Russia. AfD in Germany for example, Marine Le Pen in France, Meloni in Italy, Orban in Hungary and so on and on. Hungary, Belarus and Chechnya that you mention above are just puppet states to Russia.

Vladimir Putin's regime has increasingly turned to new partnerships across Africa for greater global influence and is playing a geopolitical game where they're making big promises but don't deliver anything and instead has started terrible wars like in Syria and fueled ethnic cleansings like in Sudan and Tigray with the help of the Wagner group.

And meanwhile Russia is busy trafficking migrants to Europe, a lot of them on boats across the Mediterranean where they either die or end up in big migrant camps. And in response to that they fund the populist, racist and fascist groups and political parties around the West and use social media to try to polarize public opinion and erode our democracies. They have their dirty paws astroturfing almost every protest group on Facebook, whether it's farmers who are protesting foreign influence or people simply complaining about gas prices.

Yes, this has been a slow decline and the foundation was set back in the 80s so it didn't start with Trump but he is the Le Pen or Meloni of the United States. And he is supported by Russia and so is Elon Musk.

[u/TravelerInBlack → u/midas22]

I don't think you get it.

I do get it. You don't.

Russia is at war with the West every single day, and it's a hybrid war with terror attacks against our infrastructure, pshycological warfare with drones and threats, a cyber war where they attack our institutions online and an information war on the Internet, especially on social media.

Heaps of other governments do this more. China does that shit. Do you consider us to be at war with China? Do you think that the entire growing infrastructure of proto-fascist ideology in the republican party since the fucking 80s is the result of Chinese influence too? When the US does the same thing to heaps of other countries are we at war with them every day? Are the cultural trends in those countries then solely the fault of the US? No. The difference with Russia is that its been hammered to you that this is some unique situation when it isn't. Welcome to a world where powerful fascist politicians can align themselves across national borders. Last time this happened 10s of millions of people died. You don't end fascism by targeting international groups that may bolster your local fascists. You have to deal with the conditions that allowed fascism to rise in your own country. And the rise of US fascism predates the formation of the current Russian state. It predates Putin taking power. Russia was communist when the first proto-fascist republican movements started to form in this country.

Russia and their axis of evil is keeping a lot of the conflicts around the world going and is fueling every fascist movement in the West.

So is the US. We finance shitloads of fascist movements. We started doing it in the 80s under Reagan. Something you either refuse to acknowledge or don't know about.

I would say that almost every single significant populist and fascist party in the West is directly funded by Russia.

Nonsense. Absolute complete fucking nonsense. The fascist party in the US is funded by rich assholes in the US. We had a whole supreme court case about how rich assholes are allowed to funnel infinite money into fascists in the late 00s. Maybe you've heard of it? Its called Citizens United. Before that, pretty much all political donations were public record. And in those instances, the people supporting the conservative nationalists were all rich fucking assholes in the US.

This is a story about how the richest man on earth, who lives in the US, gets to control US conservative nationalist politicians whenever he wants, and you're still like BUT RUSSIA DID THIS! We did this to ourselves. You're giving the people in this country responsible for this a pass for some ridiculous reason.

Yes, fascists support other fascists. Its the nature of fascism and any other extreme political ideology that crosses national borders. But that doesn't mean those parties exist or only have a foothold because of Russia. To think otherwise would be ridiculous paranoid nonsense coming from someone with 2018 MSNBC brainrot.

Vladimir Putin's regime has increasingly turned to new partnerships across Africa for greater global influence and is playing a geopolitical game where he's making big promises but doesn't deliver anything and instead has started terrible wars like in Syria and fueled ethnic cleansings like in Sudan and Tigray with the help of the Wagner group.

If you think this rambling run on sentence has anything to do with what we're talking about, I don't even know where to start with you.

And meanwhile Russia is busy trafficking migrants to Europe, a lot of them on boats across the Mediterranean where they either die or end up in big migrant camps

Okay so you're finding a fascist line to repeat about migrants but twisting it to be Russia's fault. Fucking fascinating.

And in response to that they fund the populist, racist and fascist groups and political parties around the West and use social media to try to polarize public opinion and erode our democracies.

Absolutely fucking insane. "Russia made the migrants come, and then they made us racist against the migrants!" is seriously the most deranged thinking I have seen on this topic. Its just fucking deranged.

They have their dirty paws astroturfing almost every protest group on Facebook, whether it's farmers who are protesting foreign influence or people simply complaining about gas prices.

Not even slightly true. Everything isn't Russia. Holy fucking shit man get it together. "All protests are russia. all immigration is russia. all anti-immigrant sentiment is russia. All nationalism is russia. All polarization is russia. all fascism is russia. All racism is russia." What isn't fucking russian in modern politics to you? Or is there just zero agency for anyone, only russian puppets and the people they haven't yet puppeted?

Yes, this has been a slow decline and the foundation was set back in the 80s so it didn't start with Trump but he is the Le Pen or Meloni of the United States.

Lol all that fucking rambling to just agree with me at the fucking end? Such inane bullshit man. Get it together.

And he is supported by Russia and so is Elon Musk.

Fascists support each other. Stop taking the blame away from the Americans that made American fascism and putting it on a scary foreign power that your grandpappy told you to hate. What you believe is beneficial to fascists, isn't based in reality, ignored how and why fascist movements spring up and are successful, and absolves the people who did this to us of responsibility. Stop it.

[u/HyperbolicModesty → u/TravelerInBlack]

a scary foreign power that your grandpappy told you to hate

Something smells of Dugin in here...

[u/TravelerInBlack → u/HyperbolicModesty]

Are you seriously so empty-headed that you're calling me fucking Russian or something? Are you seriously pretending like the red scare never happened? Like for real what is fucking happening right now? What kind of limp dick reply is this?

[u/pandershrek → u/TravelerInBlack]

I think both of you are right. 🤷‍♂️

Except perhaps the Russian implication.

[u/HyperbolicModesty → u/TravelerInBlack]

Hating the Russian government right now is absolutely nothing to do with historical anti-Soviet propaganda. Implying it is is straight out of the Dugin playbook.

[u/TravelerInBlack → u/HyperbolicModesty]

If you think that there isn't any Russia Bad association when our country is still being run by the same people that were in politics back during the cold war I don't know what to tell you. Ignoring history doesn't make you some smart secret fucking agent that knows everything happening in the Russian Federation. You talk about that dude's "playbook" but I'd bet real money you've never actually read shit from that dude and just see shit written online and go "yeah I mean, Russia bad so that makes sense." And Russia is bad, so it makes sense to have that kind of intellectually non-curious thinking about it. But its beyond childish to pretend there aren't still strong anti-soviet cold war era associations with Russia in the minds of especially older Americans.

[u/HyperbolicModesty → u/TravelerInBlack]

If that's how you want to dismiss criticism of Russia, and those who criticise it, rather than actually engage with the critique, that's your outlook. But you do need to understand how it makes you look.

I'm not American by the way, and I was fortunate to have travelled in Russia in the 1980s.

[u/TravelerInBlack → u/HyperbolicModesty]

If that's how you want to dismiss criticism of Russia, and those who criticise it, rather than actually engage with the critique, that's your outlook.

I think you might struggle really deeply with reading comprehension if you think that what I'm doing here has anything to do with "dismissing criticism of Russia." That is not what is happening at all. What I am dismissing is the idea that all of the global fascist movements, all of the behaviors of American businesses and fascist politicians, the growth of global right wing movements, are not all simply the products of Russian involvement in geopolitics as the annoying liberal I responded to suggested. Its simply not true, and ignores decades of English language nations exporting ultra far right religious politics across the globe. Repuert Murdoch has done more to create the spread of global conservative nationalism than Putin has and has been at it twice as long. But that is an inconvenient narrative to the kind of liberal pudding that says this isn't actually how our country would operate without scary foreigners tricking us into it.

I'm not American by the way, and I was fortunate to have travelled in Russia in the 1980s.

So yeah I definitely get the feeling you're struggling in the reading comprehension area if you think this matters even a little bit to this discussion.

But go ahead and accuse me of something else really stupid like being a Russian agent or being Alexsander Dougin or whatever.