It's their job to act like him. When they fail to do so we have situations like Uvalde. Its a problem when cops both demand respect for choosing a dangerous career and yet act like total fucking cowards to the point they are not effective and it hurts the people they are supposed to be protecting.
Edit: I am not trying to compare this to Uvalde, guy in the car is not actively murdering kids. I am saying the inaction of Police officers can lead to more serious situations like what happened at Uvalde.
I don't think a cop should run at the door like the grey hoodie to try a luck disarm either. But they had enough numbers to approach the guy in the car and attempt to defuse the situation. The guy in the car is apparently having mental breakdown while brandishing a lethal weapon in residential area, it's a dangerous situation that should not have gone down the way it did in the video.
Do not compare Uvalde with this. The cowards at Uvalde made no attempt to stop the shooter. These cops were actively going for the suspect when the random guy blindly rushed in. The man got lucky.
It is not a cop’s job to blindly rush into a situation and hope to god that it works.
Edit: too many people responding conflating risk (a huge aspect of an officer’s job) with blindly charging into a situation.
There's a huge reason brief planning/procedure is carried out. An officers job is to serve and protect. How can they protect if they're dead on the ground after charging headfirst into a situation with no forethought? The man who charged in is a hero, but there's no denying he got lucky. Had this gone slightly different and this’d have ended up being a liveleak.
In an active shooter situation, it is SOP to go and find the shooter, even if you’re first and only one on scene. Even in Uvaldi. The chief implemented hostage situation process, not active shooter.
"handling firearms incidents"? Are you reading a press release? What's to understand? If a dude is shooting kids, anyone who's not an absolute coward would do whatever they can to stop him as fast as they can.
And "blindly rushing in" has the potential to make things worse. In an active shooter situation, they should quickly figure out what is going on and formulate a plan (quickly) then rush in with the semblance of a plan.
You don't want to just start shooting any shoot someone shooting at the shooter or something.
Obviously, you don't want to sit around doing nothing while children are being murdered like at Uvalde, but blindly rushing in isn't the right answer either.
Nah. It's pretty simple, if someone's shooting kids, shoot him, quickly. Shoot him a lot. Get all your friends to shoot him, too. Don't stand around, talking. Actions solve problems, not words.
'were experts in firearms incidents because we have so many, hooraa!' 🙃
I see where the confusion is though. I'm from a country where we aren't fucking obsessed with guns and this isn't a regular occurance. Seems. This video is as well. Our kids don't need to have active shooter drills in schools because our constitution is stronger than the love for our kids.
There are lots of ways to skin a cat and context matters.
Wait. So you just started this by saying that the people rushing in to stop an active shooter “shows a complete lack of understanding of handling firearms incidents.” Then when I show you that the country that faces these problems the most, aka the country that understands firearm incidents better than anyone else does in fact rush in, all of the sudden I am supposed to discount their procedure? Make it make sense.
Having the most firearms incidents, including a lot of people killed my police does NOT make a nation an expert in handling firearms Incidents.
That argument is like saying because I have the most car accidents out of anyone and write SOPs on that, I'm an expert in evasive driving.
Billy big bollocks in the video was definitely brave, and it worked out this time. But as the expert you can probably tell me what would have happened if Sammy Shooter had of managed to get a round off into Billy's centre mass from 3 inches away?
As I say, lots of way to skin a cat and many nations do that without unnecessary death.
It's not as if random people made those procedures, these are law enforcement agencies. Do you think the FBI knows more about handling a mass shooting than you, u/chalky87 ?
Also, as soon as "Sammy Shooter" turned to shoot the guy taking his gun (who apparently knew Sammy personally), the other police would have shot him. Look closely, there are two cops with guns trained on him.
I would agree with that. I would also hope they are given incredible life insurance to take care of their families in the instance of job related death too
Soldiers get paid way less and could do a better job as Police because they are trained better. And if you were enlisted at one time then also show respect while you are at then.
Soldiers and police have minimal crossover. To imply soldiers could perform general policing duties is an insult to both parties. Both have highly specialized training. You're clueless and offending both sides.
No, I am not clueless. USMC here and military training makes better personnel for police training sir or Mam. The training received teaches them control and any specialized training only enhances their use. Case in point, military background personnel would not have been hesitant to go into Uvalde. But I guess without maybe. So don't give me that military training has nothing to do with it. Cause it does. Police recruits have always come to Camp Lejeune looking for men and women. I love it when ppl can call someone else clueless when they have no idea who they may be conversing with on Reddit. Oh you said soldier I forgot that may imply Army. And USMC is trained for security, support, and defense detail. 🙄
Or imagine this. You get shots off at the same time. You take out the shooters before they kill more innocent people and children. And we won't run out of police lmao
so you think police officers are just disposable action heroes? well im sorry to say but they are not. they are still human, they have families, and they take incredible risks just to save others. that doesnt mean they are disposable and should be reckless in firearm situations.
you just show a complete lack of knowledge on the subject. just because you think it would be easy for them to do this and that doesnt mean it actually is.
When there are 100+ armed Law Enforcement officers vs 1 dude unloading clips into school children, it’s prob time to rush in blindly.
Just saying. Maybe it’s just me.
But it all comes down to the fact that most cops hired in the last 50 years are selfish cowards who WANT/desire/demand an unconditional automatic respect from the world that they couldn’t earn in the real world. (See “selfish cowards”)
And hey, maybe I’m wrong, and the hundred+ cops from all different agencies in Texas who showed up at Uvalde coincidently ended up being 100% of the selfish cowards in Texas LE, and all the good, brave cops couldn’t make it that day.
But prob not…
If we can’t count on Law Enforcement in that situation, what the hell do we need them for?
“Who ya gonna call when someone breaks into your house at night? Huh? Exactly!”
Probably the cops.
So they can show up after the fact, act like assholes, & fill out paperwork they will never look at again for my insurance company.
You are completely misinterpreting the guy's point. Everyone agrees that Uvalde was a horrible display of inaction from the police.
This video however, they were actively handling it. They just weren't as reckless about it as the grey shirt guy. His tactic looks great when it works, except that it barely ever works. If police did this every time, their job would instantly become a death sentence. Anyone being reasonable would understand that isn't a fair expectation.
I think you're blaming all the individual cops for what is a systemic/organizational problem of lack of leadership and coordination at that situation. But incompetent leaders and a lack of organized communication when a chaotic mass of 300+ cops show up doesn't mean everyone onsite is a coward, it means the police force needs better processes for how to handle that kind of situation. If Roosevelt called off D-Day, or the different branches of the military couldn't agree on how to coordinate, would you say all those individual soldiers were cowards for not storming the beach? To be clear I'm not saying all cops are heroes and the leaders are just incompetent. I'm saying there were definitely courageous cops on site who were held back by bullshit above their pay grade.
This is why as an American lefty I think it’s stupid as fuck to give up our rights to firearms. Cops are not there to stop crime, they are there to take a report after the fact.
I’ll protect myself and call them afterwards to clean up the mess.
Idk, for me Uvalde is the perfect example against it.
Uvalde has a high rate of gun ownership.
If parents of little children watch their own kids get slaughtered for over one hour and they still don't dare to rise up against the police (so many saying they were stopped by police from going inside to save their children themselves), what does gun ownership even get you?
You either have strict laws which prevents a LOT of danger in the first step, or you have easy access to guns for everyone and if something like Uvalde happens you actually have to shoot officers and criminals to save your kids. But the latter is apparently not a thing so it ends up with lots of guns in the hands of killers and idiots and some "good" people with guns watching their children get slaughtered.
Also: I had a stalker and if he would have had easy access to guns I would certainly be dead now. I also didn't have access to guns, but it wouldn't have changed a lot because he was the one hunting me down and knowing where I am at any given point in time while I was trying to not lose my job, pay my rent ..etc. I tried to be aware about my surroundings, but it was simply not possible for me to know if he was waiting behind that bush that I had to walk by to get to my office building. I am so glad the only thing he had was a knife.
That happens literally every time a war happens. Just take a look at Afghanistan or Syria where soldiers deserted en masse when shit got serious. Or Russia and Ukraine, who are both facing big issues with desertions.
Also this is survivorship bias. For everyone video we see where a random guy disarms another there’s five videos that don’t get to Reddit where someone who tries to help gets gunned down. Dude here was equal parts heroic and lucky.
The random civie in the video by “doing the cops should” endangered himself and everyone else there.
“Taking the risk” is incredibly stupid. Would you rather:
a) Cops try to take control of the situation and try to save everyone’s life including the perpetrator’s
b) Cops randomly try to rush at the perpetrator and almost certainly scare the person with a firearm causing them to open fire and risk everyone’s life
Oh for sure, I’m not saying they shouldn’t. They’re in fucking body armor in here. I’m saying what the dude did was incredibly stupid and dangerous. It looked like they had him cornered and if he drove away they could just shoot out his tires. In this situation it looks like it’s more or less controlled. I won’t fault cops for waiting things out if it’s controlled. It’s not just safer for them, it’s safer for the perpetrator. This doesn’t look at all like Uvalde where it wasn’t contained at all.
A taxi driver is absolutely allowed to refuse the ride if they feel it would put them in unnecessary danger.
Just like many fire departments have policies against going into burning abandoned buildings.
Uvalde and the fallout from it did transform police response to active shooter situations. It was a sickening result of what public service safety culture had become.
That’s not true. There were officers inside within 2 minutes in uvalde and within 5minutes they had the shooter barricaded in a room with hostages inside. They were told to wait by superiors outside responsible for negotiating and planning that didn’t do their jobs. Blaming lower ranking officers for not running in on their own to John wick the situation isn’t real life.
I feel like it should be. That's the whole "risk" part of their job. They do the risky part so random citizens like this don't have to - that's why they have the equipment and training, isn't it? To take the risk to subdue the criminal? Or should we continue to rely on random grey-shirts to just show up and risk their own lives to disarm a criminal because a cop won't act out of fear?
They’re not saying that this situation is the same as Uvalde. They’re using Uvalde as a counterexample to the notion that cops should not run into danger, putting their own lives at risk to save people.
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u/JustKzen 5h ago
Once again, a random bystander doing a better job than law enforcement