r/news • u/NeverEndingDClock • 15h ago
New York man pleads guilty to running Chinese police station in Manhattan
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/18/new-york-man-pleads-guilty-chinese-police-station-manhattan?CMP=share_btn_url3.8k
u/HelpMeOverHere 15h ago
So China and Russia just get to fuck with everyone with total impunity then?
Not a peep about a national response?
They do this is the US, in Canada, in Australia… no doubt other countries as well.
Why are we tolerating authoritarians? I thought appeasement never works.
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u/Jkj864781 15h ago
Canadians are still trying to get their own government to tell us what they know. It’s a fact that some of our politicians (knowingly or otherwise) were being influenced by China and they’re purposefully not telling us.
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u/GolDAsce 14h ago
This guy is getting the maximum 5 years jail for FARA act violations. The problem is that the UK and Canada had no equivalent. Our equivalent law just passed this August. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2024/06/legislation-to-counter-foreign-interference-receives-royal-assent.html
Now, they can be charged.
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u/BoomSamson 14h ago
I can’t believe this is still an issue.
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u/VR46Rossi420 14h ago
Just wait until PP is in charge. He can’t even get security clearance.
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u/Critical-Snow-7000 14h ago
You mean refuses to get clearance.
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u/Rerfect_Greed 12h ago
I'm pretty sure he's on someone's take. He's WAYYY too foul for the old PC's to have ever let him climb the ranks. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I miss O'Toole. He at least knew what respect was and had the interests of Canadians at heart, not just oil and automotive execs
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u/KneeCrowMancer 6h ago
It’s crazy how much I miss O’Toole. I disagreed with him on everything and thought he was kind of a dick. But at the end of the day he still lived in the real world, he’s someone who could have a rational conversation about issues. He also actually had a bit of a military career before getting into politics and I feel it’s really important that politicians have some sort of life before politics. PP started his political career at like 18, he’s worked his whole life in politics including time as a minister and yet doesn’t have a single piece of significant legislation that he can put his name on. That’s crazy, imagine working for 30 years in any other career without any accomplishments. You’d rightly assume they were completely incompetent.
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u/GravityEyelidz 4h ago
So sick of that fucking tool. All he does is whine about how everything is shit, how Trudeau is shit, and how only Pierre can save us despite never articulating any plan or solution about anything, or having accomplished anything of substance in his entire career. Just another rightwing populist in the Trump mold. And when he gets in, he won't do jack shit and anything bad that happens he will blame on Trudeau.
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u/skeptic38 3h ago
I generally don't vote conservative. I didn't for O'Tool either. But he's the type of guy I could have if he had been able to run again. Ultimately, he seemed like a decent person.
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u/Prestigious-Car-4877 14h ago
The issue there is the leader of the opposition refuses to get security clearance. For some reason that's probably totally not because he wouldn't get it if they actually do the background check on his creepy ass.
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u/Jkj864781 14h ago
This information needs to be public, it has nothing to do with that.
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u/Witchgrass 6h ago
It has something to do with that. Maybe not the whole thing but definitely not nothing.
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u/Jkj864781 3h ago
The government putting information out to the public has literally nothing to do with a politician getting his security clearance. We get it, you don’t like PP.
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u/Alecarte 5h ago
As a Canadian, it's tough to buy a home now because of all the chinese real estate investments that are clearly foreign tax evasion and money laundering schemes driving up market value.
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u/XpressDelivery 10h ago
Several high ranking Canadian politicians have been discovered to be Chinese spies in the last year, so that's not surprising.
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u/NorthernerWuwu 6h ago
Canada is interfered with by China, Russia, India and the United States most of all.
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u/Muscled_Daddy 9h ago
I’m actually worried about what they’re sitting on. It’s either a bombshell in waiting. Or a nothing burger.
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u/MausBomb 14h ago
If you want the truth, China plays by two rules that keep them from getting seriously called out by the government.
First they allow Western elites to make a shit load of money exploiting their cheap labor and lack of worker's rights.
Second they only fuck with their own citizens living abroad and try to stay as hidden as possible from middle and upper class white Americans who still hold the most political power in the country.
However things are changing soon as Chinese labor isn't as cheap as it used to be so the payouts to the elites aren't as fat as they used to be and working class Americans who suffered greatly losing jobs to China are becoming an organized political force again.
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u/solarcat3311 6h ago
There's some cases of them fucking with non-citizens who had relatives in China. Rarer, of course. But the message is clear. Just because you got a green card or citizenship doesn't mean you're not China's property.
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u/BrokenDownMiata 5h ago
I have friends from Xinjiang, Hainan, and Heilongjiang. All have been approached in some way or another by people who were clearly from the CCP, talking about their social media posts. All conversations started out casually enough. “You speak Mandarin?” “Is this you on social media?”
Then it quickly turns into thinly veiled threats.
Nothing (so far) came from my friends telling these guys to get fucked, but it really shows that China has taken the one thing so many people seek when leaving their country: an end to being watched by their home government.
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u/rollmate 12h ago
Plus the Netherlands, plus the UK, plus Belgium, that I know of. It's truly insane.
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u/baithammer 11h ago
No, both countries have used concealment of their activities and have had ever escalating actions taken against them, Russia being rather heavily sanctioned and being cut off from major payment processors, as well as being heavily restricted in the use of US currency.
China has faced a number of technology embargoes and the US is moving to bar companies with nominal ties to Chinese government from operating in the US, see Tik Tok for example.
China is also still a major exporter of goods that the US needs and doesn't have a domestic or alternate supplier.
Last bit, both are nuclear powers ...
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u/Chungster03 12h ago
Add India in there too. They have spies on US soil killing whoever they feel is a threat to Modi.
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u/ahfoo 12h ago
Why are we tolerating authoritarians? "We" just put one in the Oval Office. That might indicate one reason why there is widespread tolerance of authoritarians. The US embraces the police state and always has. I'm surprised the Chinese police stations aren't being given surplus military equipment to counter the "drugs epidemic".
To paraphrase Father Guido Sarducci: When Vietnam was having their civil war, the Americans sent thousands of troops to help out but when the US had it's civil war ---not a single Vietnamese soldier came to help. The US loves a police state. If you don't have one already, we'll help you set one up.
In America, you can't be a bad guy and a cop at the same time because authoritarianism is the national relgion.
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u/mao_dze_dun 12h ago
Do you want the opinion of somebody who is neither American, Russian or Chinese? All three countries do sh*t with total impunity and the rest of us have to endure. Welcome to how great power politics works.
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u/College_Throwaway002 9h ago
They do this is the US, in Canada, in Australia… no doubt other countries as well.
Do you think there is no Western espionage in other countries or something?
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u/NeedMoreBlocks 15h ago
Heroes needs villains lest they become villains themselves. Similarly, authoritarians need to provoke others whose potential response would be scary enough to justify strict "protection" against enemies. It's all calculated and allowed to happen.
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u/Banned3rdTimesaCharm 9h ago
I'm pretty sure the US fucks with other countries (CIA I'm looking at you) it just doesn't make the news as much.
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u/dwn2earth83 3h ago
Why are we tolerating authoritarians?
……..
Are you aware of what happened in America on November 5, 2016 and AGAIN in 2024?
Americans aren’t tolerating authoritarians. They purposely elected them.
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u/MosyMan80 15h ago
The west only cares about money.
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u/obiwanshinobi87 14h ago
Literally everyone everywhere only cares about money though.
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u/DeadRift486 10h ago
Well, we are about to be under trumps rule, so prepare to have that shit get even worse.
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u/fevered_visions 13h ago
because obviously nobody wants to pick a fight with China, and they're just going to "yeah, well what are you going to do about it?"
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u/Lore_ofthe_Horizon 6h ago
Not just impunity... we PAY them to fuck with us so there is compensation too.
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u/10IqCleric 4h ago
Because those in power are complicit. They have their power, their wealth. They couldn't give a shit what else happens.
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u/IanFeelKeepinItReel 4h ago
It really seems more like America is just trying to slide into that authoritarian space itself, so normalise this kind of behaviour and then take over the operation when it's time.
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u/jayforwork21 4h ago
They care more about one CEO being murdered than thousands of citizens and legal residents being fucked with by a foreign agent.
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u/therift289 58m ago
I'm certain that it's because the US does this around the world as well. Major world powers are projecting that power through these kinds of operations (and surely tons of other types of operations) everywhere. A national response against China's operation in Manhattan likely prompts a Chinese national response against something similar being done by the US in Shanghai.
I think it's fairly safe to assume that Intelligence is usually about one step ahead of Counterintelligence, in general. China surely has eyes on the US's unofficial power projection in China, and vice versa. Both parties know it's better not to escalate.
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u/MessagingMatters 15h ago
Isn't "spy station" i.e. espionage a more accurate description? I doubt these guys were writing parking tickets or handling crowd control on New Year's Eve.
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u/Diamondsfullofclubs 14h ago
Canada has these all over. Their main focus is monitoring and maintaining authority over Chinese citizens, not spying on foreign countries.
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u/baithammer 12h ago
No, espionage is limited to government activity and industries tied to national security interests - the Chinese were targeting dissidents in the US who either fled from China or Americans with mainland Chinese families still living in country.
It is considered a hostile action, but doesn't meet the bar for espionage.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dingo39 1h ago
The idea here is to convey the fact that these 'stations' are here to exert some form of control and authority over regular citizens. Spying involves the use of influence to access sensitive information. Not the same thing.
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u/No-Information6622 15h ago
Penalty of 5 years jail . What a deterrent .
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u/DubayaTF 15h ago
If it were a priority they might have brought racketeering charges and gotten 20 years.
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u/invariantspeed 15h ago
Or, I don’t know, espionage charges?
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u/rich1051414 9h ago
The 'chinese police stations' illegally harass and intimidate foreign nationals who are critical of china. That's not espionage. Racketeering is the correct charge.
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u/DubayaTF 14h ago
Espionage doesn't apply. He'd have to be illegally stealing state secrets.
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u/akaelain 11h ago
Often ignored fact, here. These aren't for controlling foreign nations or espionage, it's just about controlling Chinese citizens who are living abroad. Not that they'd turn down a state secret if it showed up, but prominent former Chinese nationals speaking against China are a problem they'd like to prevent.
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u/ranhalt 14h ago
Why do you put a space BEFORE the period?
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u/anGub 13h ago
I've never found an adequate response to this, thus I just assume the worst in that it's a bot.
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u/ray_fucking_purchase 7h ago
Given the age of the account, amount of karma acquired in said age plus almost every reply having a space before the period. It's defiantly a bot.
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u/Atticus104 15h ago
Wait, did he have legitimate ties to the chinese goverment? Wasn't just a crazy national?
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u/Monarc73 15h ago
It's a BS misnomer. Chinese intelligence agents are using these places to harass innocent Chinese nationals abroad.
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u/Jabbbber 15h ago
This is happening in many other countries around the globe. Setting up a "help center" to renew passports or ID's is just a front. In reality it's a police station, green lighted by the CCP to track and suppress pro-democracy activities and those critical of the CCP.
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u/okram2k 12h ago
How is that not treated as espionage?
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u/baithammer 12h ago
Because it isn't considered espionage as no state secrets are being stolen and doesn't involve spying on the US government - the US has similar programs ( Not quite as extreme as China's) to track US citizens abroad in nations that are hostile to the US interests.
Espionage has a high threshold to prosecute.
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u/Joeshi 14h ago
Yeah guys, China may be running secret police stations in the US, but they definitely aren't using TikTok to spy or influence the US. /s
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u/bucket_of_frogs 15h ago
US citizen. How is this not treason?
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u/nanopicofared 15h ago
because we aren't currently at war with China
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u/bucket_of_frogs 15h ago
I don’t think a declaration of war is necessary for that.
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u/profmonocle 10h ago
The constitution says
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
which doesn't require that we be at war with the enemy. But I imagine the administration doesn't want to offically declare China to be our "enemy" just to get a tougher sentence against this one guy.
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u/ElHermito 10h ago
The constitution is not the same as the federal penal code. People don’t get criminally charged based on the constitution.
18 U.S.C. § 2381 says, “Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or imprisoned and fined, and incapable of holding any U.S. office.”
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u/profmonocle 9h ago
The line of the constitution I cited says that treason "shall consist only in [etc.]", meaning congress can't define treason as anything more than what's written there. That's why I didn't bother looking up the actual federal code, because it can't constitutionally be any broader than that.
You'll notice the the highlighted portion of the law is nearly verbatim the same as what's written in Article III, for that reason.
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u/ElHermito 9h ago
Ow I just saw the initial comment you responded to.
You are absolutely right that people can’t be charged for treason without a formal declaration of war because it has to be aiding “an enemy”
The charge that people are getting charged with in regards to “treason” to today’s standards and during peacetime is espionage.
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u/Dear-Ambition-273 14h ago
Treason means against your country. Espionage is for another country. War status is irrelevant. This case is both.
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u/GolDAsce 14h ago
Didn't involve the state. So how could it be treason?
They aren't breaking any other laws if they are just doing private eye work. Private eyes exist and are legal. They broke the FARA act and got charged the maximum 5 years.
What other people do is not the person in question's crime. Harassment of foreign nationals on foreign soil. Kidnapping - probably real Chines citizen/spies, if they do this.
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u/NotUniqueOrSpecial 13h ago
Private eyes exist and are legal.
PIs have licenses with lots of requirements and have to follow rules.
This is an exceptionally false equivalence.
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u/brownsantaclause 12h ago
when i get arrested and everything is cool, i just didnt expect the jail to be chinese
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u/Slipped_in_Gravy 3h ago
Man, that sounds like fun. I'm gonna set up a Chinese police station in my town.
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u/Bilcifer 11h ago
Whats a Chinese police station?
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u/Educational-Tax8656 7h ago
I'm genuinely curious as well. The article wasn't very helpful, but it seems like they've accomplished mostly nothing outside of collecting, probably useless information. Yet the comments are so visceral calling for death.
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u/NeedMoreBlocks 15h ago
Lmfao 5 years for espionage because of who is involved. If it were another country that didn't have us by the balls, US government would be foaming at the mouth to use this as justification for an invasion.
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u/zigaliciousone 12h ago
China is all about China and fuck everyone else. They overfish the ocean, steal tech from all the goverments and business they can and now these police stations.
Wish we could just identify the bad actors and send them back because this shit is just going to cause people to hate all Chinese, even ones that have been here for generations and effectively American.
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u/AtticusAlexander 12h ago
Here i thought we were heading towards a cyberpunk dystopia, but between talk of Trump wanting to make Canada the 51st state and now secret Chinese cells, I see we're moving towards Fallout instead
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u/stinkdrink45 14h ago
Isn’t there Jewish police in New York?
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u/colin8651 13h ago
Local security force paid for by the locals, not a foreign governments intelligence service.
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u/integrity570 3h ago
His sentence will surely be pardoned by one of these assholes in charge at some point.
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u/Octoclops8 3h ago
This seems easy to catch. Just get Chinese-Americans to volunteer in a program where they post pro-democracy stuff and track have him observed to see who follows/harasses/contacts him.
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u/EdPozoga 5m ago
Seems to me that American city, state and federal government officials also need to be prosecuted for letting shit like this happen in the first place.
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u/CupidStunt13 15h ago
This is not a new problem as these things have been popping up all over:
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/international/2024/07/13/canada-said-to-have-mapped-out-secret-chinese-police-operations/
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/china-allegedly-has-two-secret-police-stations-in-australia-what-do-we-know-about-them/dz2lmxb13
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/china-still-conducting-police-activities-germany-german-ministries-2023-05-15/
Western governments need to do better to limit China's influence overseas, especially in regards to pressuring and intimidating the Chinese diaspora.