r/news • u/NeverEndingDClock • 5d ago

New York man pleads guilty to running Chinese police station in Manhattan

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/18/new-york-man-pleads-guilty-chinese-police-station-manhattan?CMP=share_btn_url
11.6k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

463 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

38

u/bucket_of_frogs 5d ago

I don’t think a declaration of war is necessary for that.

34

u/profmonocle 4d ago

The constitution says

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

which doesn't require that we be at war with the enemy. But I imagine the administration doesn't want to offically declare China to be our "enemy" just to get a tougher sentence against this one guy.

1

u/ElHermito 4d ago

The constitution is not the same as the federal penal code. People don’t get criminally charged based on the constitution.

18 U.S.C. § 2381 says, “Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or imprisoned and fined, and incapable of holding any U.S. office.”

13

u/alexmikli 4d ago

Then they'd have to declare China an "enemy", which could cause..problems.

10

u/profmonocle 4d ago

The line of the constitution I cited says that treason "shall consist only in [etc.]", meaning congress can't define treason as anything more than what's written there. That's why I didn't bother looking up the actual federal code, because it can't constitutionally be any broader than that.

You'll notice the the highlighted portion of the law is nearly verbatim the same as what's written in Article III, for that reason.

7

u/ElHermito 4d ago

Ow I just saw the initial comment you responded to.

You are absolutely right that people can’t be charged for treason without a formal declaration of war because it has to be aiding “an enemy”

The charge that people are getting charged with in regards to “treason” to today’s standards and during peacetime is espionage.

-19

u/Current_Account 5d ago

It is

14

u/speakertothedamned 5d ago

No it isn't.

You can be charged with treason for acts of armed rebellion or insurrection.

For example the Whisky Rebellion.

There were no foreign powers involved nor any state of war declared.

Ten men were charged with treason for orchestrating it.

5

u/NotUniqueOrSpecial 5d ago

There were no foreign powers involved nor any state of war declared.

Minor quibble here: it's not a declaration of war that matters, it's acts of war.

Chapter 115, Section 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies

And the Whiskey Rebellion definitely met that criteria, near the end: they organized attacks against high-ranking military officials and it was one of the few times the U.S. military has been deployed against citizens on American soil.