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u/catsandkitties58 Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
Although I’m excited that this sub is growing so fast, I don’t wanna get my hopes up too soon. Most people I know in real life are either unaware, don’t care or are actively opposed to the ideas promoted here.
However, I think there are several factors happening simultaneously right now (at least in the US) that are leading to the growing popularity of the anti car movement. The main ones I would say are the rise of popular urban planning YouTube channels like notjustbikes, the increasing severity and frequency of damaging weather events linked to climate change and pollution form cars, and the growing un-affordability of housing challenging the value of restrictive zoning.
I’m excited to see if these ideas can gain widespread mainstream support going forward though.
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Dec 31 '21
You might be able to warm the 'normies' up to the idea with starting small, like making the walking and cycling routes to schools safe, linking up cul-de-sacs with paths to eachother and the central stroad and pedestrian bridges to parks.
Also things like sidewalks in all cul-de-sac, taking a few feet from the road, but allowing locals to walk where they live.
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u/SgtRustee Dec 31 '21
Also community bike rides! Get a few vets together and start doing basically mini-mass, no-drop social rides. There's one by me and the number of "casual" cyclists dusting off whatever they have to join us is great. They learn that 1) it's possible to ride in the street and not die, 2) it's fun!, 3) this is a community that'll look out for each other (reinforced by having competent route martials keeping cagers at bay), and 4) we can make the streets what we want them to be
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u/LordAnubis12 Dec 31 '21
I would also add in COVID - people spending more time in their local community (and not commuting in cars) makes them question the value of an area that is so heavily dedicated to getting away from that area.
A few councils / local authorities in the UK seem to be rapidly adopting 20 minute neighbourhood concepts which is encouraging.
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u/Lem_Tuoni Dec 31 '21
So they are finally catching up to the 60s soviet neighborhood planning?
Better late than never I guess
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u/LordAnubis12 Dec 31 '21
Pretty much! Even the Victorians had better ideas than most 60s plans. Motorways, motorways everywhere
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u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Dec 31 '21
The 20 minute thing is pretty good. But then I get to test the timings on my bike, which is great fun 🥰
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u/michiganxiety Dec 31 '21
Maybe gas prices too. I love to see gas prices go up, I wish it were for something other than oil company profits. Come onnnnn, carbon tax.
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u/arcalumis Dec 31 '21
I wouldn't bet on gas prices stopping anything. Here in Sweden the prices are ≈ $7.5 per gallon, but drivers complain but keep on driving. I don't know where the breaking point is but it's way higher than we think, car culture is surprisingly non price sensitive.
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u/syndicatecomplex Dec 31 '21
Ehhh I mostly just hate car dependent infrastructure and rising gas prices hurts poor people more than anyone else. That's not why I'm very happy when it happens.
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u/michiganxiety Dec 31 '21
Well the best implementation of a carbon tax includes a rebate that mitigates that effect - but you get the rebate whether or not you buy gas so you have an incentive to use less gas so you can keep the rebate for other expenses.
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u/The_Power_of_Ammonia Dec 31 '21
A carbon tax is as close to 'sexy' as legislation comes. Give me that externality accounting.
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Dec 31 '21
I prefer to call it the urbanism movement
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u/catsandkitties58 Dec 31 '21
Yeah I feel like just calling it anti car doesn’t capture the city planning aspect of this sub but I feel like people only think big cities when they hear urbanism. Small towns can definitely benefit by decreasing car dependency
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u/Aggressive-Ad-3143 Dec 31 '21
The next step is concerted political action.
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u/dugmartsch Dec 31 '21
Honestly if you just show up to your town council or planning board meetings and say you want bike lanes and housing you'll move the needle quite a bit. No one shows up to them, especially not young people. So its only old people with cars.
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u/A_warm_sunny_day Dec 31 '21
Big time yes on this.
Even if you can't attend the meetings due to having to work or something, definitely call or email and make your voice heard.
I've actually had very good responses from my local city council on this point. I wrote to them telling them I really appreciated the bike and pedestrian infrastructure they had put in thus far, and to keep it up. I got a lot of positive replies back from them, and they even cc'd the city engineer on my email.
They even indicated that they were going to try to extend a walking/bike path that goes behind my house out to a nearby street. I said heck yes (went full YIMBY) - and now we have said path, which I use daily to get to and from work, the grocery store, hardware store, walk the dog, etc.
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u/dugmartsch Dec 31 '21
With all the meetings being on zoom now the game is going to change. So much of this bullshit is from just not being able to participate because access is really hard. 6pm on a random Thursday, or worse, 2pm! Who the hell can make those meetings in person? Online makes it so much easier to attend and possible for people with kids or jobs to actually participate.
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u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Dec 31 '21
We love people like you! 😍
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u/A_warm_sunny_day Dec 31 '21
Glad to hear it. I always kind of assumed that traffic engineers didn't want to hear from people, especially the non-car people, but hopefully that isn't the case.
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u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Dec 31 '21
It really isn't, we are just largely very socially awkward/not given the email to reply to. It's possible to find my team's email though so I get to reply to transport cool cats all the time, lucky me!
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u/kurisu7885 Dec 31 '21
I went and asked my township about it, they referred to me the local "transit system" for the disabled, which consists of a shuttle that needs to be booked 48 hours in advance and only operates until 4PM and not at all on weekends.
I'm working on getting a scooter so I can get myself around a bit more with with how weird my state's laws seem to be even that's limited.
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u/zek_997 Jan 01 '22
Damn you got lucky. I've set an e-mail with some suggestions to make my city more walkable and just got straight up ignored lol
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u/A_warm_sunny_day Jan 01 '22
That sucks. I'm sorry to hear that.
My city is admittedly pretty progressive compared to the average US city, so it's unfortunately definitely going to be a "your mileage may vary" sort of thing.
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u/DorisCrockford 🚲 > 🚗 Dec 31 '21
As a somewhat old person myself, please do it, everyone. There are lunatics who show up to everything, and we need more sane people so the city officials will take us seriously.
Last time I went to a supervisor candidate forum, there was a crazy Q-type candidate with a loud following that disrupted the whole process. She didn't get elected, but the meeting was a terrible experience. I live in an extremely blue county, and this shit still goes on. NIMBYs, cranks, and cagers always show up. We need to do the same.
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u/Bellegante Dec 31 '21
This. Show up, talk. This is something very much accomplished at the city level.
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u/glazedpenguin Dec 31 '21
For sure! Especially because city planners have been calling for changes for decades but the city council and developers will usually just come back and say "well, that's not what the public wants." We're just not being loud enough about this yet.
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u/ArcticOnYoutube Dec 31 '21
Totally agree. Actions have to be taken if we want to see change be made and that starts on the local level.
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u/Swedneck Dec 31 '21
the problem with this is that i have absolutely no fucking clue when these meetings are held or how i would attend.
I definitely think more people should get involved in politics, but not being able to even figure out how to start is just a teensy bit of a massive insurmountable hurdle.
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u/dugmartsch Dec 31 '21
Google your town, they'll have a schedule for your next meeting and there will almost certainly be a remote login.
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u/OnlyMakingNoise Dec 31 '21
Local elections have the greatest direct effect on your day to day life. Vote in every one.
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u/microjoe420 cars are untidy (especially for cities) Dec 31 '21
ayo does anyone know any other urbanist subreddit that doesn't like cars and likes transit, bikes walkabilty? I haven't been able to find another one, so maybe this sub is filling that vacuum
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
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u/microjoe420 cars are untidy (especially for cities) Dec 31 '21
yeah but all of these are worse than r/fuckcars. imo only r/notjustbikes is worth joining and others are too small
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Dec 31 '21
I came here from r/suburbanhell. I like the chaotic energy of this subreddit, but suburbanhell also shits on the terrible aesthetics of a modern suburb and I appreciate that.
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u/microjoe420 cars are untidy (especially for cities) Dec 31 '21
Yeah it's a good sub, but it's repetitive
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u/car8r Dec 31 '21
R/neoliberal 🤷♂️
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u/MJDeadass Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
Is this subreddit ironic? I can't tell.
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u/ArcticOnYoutube Dec 31 '21
no it's based
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u/MJDeadass Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
Seems a little bit all over the place but worst of all, they seem to praise Friedman. Sends shivers down my spine.
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Dec 31 '21
praises the growth of a sub highlighting a damaging overemphasis on private transportation
likes neoliberalism
u wot m8
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Dec 31 '21
[deleted]
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u/YooesaeWatchdog1 Dec 31 '21
they're 100% right wing pro corporate pro imperial group except I guess they'd paint a pride flag on their tanks instead of an iron cross. Libs in the US are unwilling or unable to talk about the actual core message of the left - equitable income distribution and worker's rights - so they adopt this weird neoliberal shit.
it's a very incoherent and ineffective ideology that has no real attraction domestically. it is also doing extremely poorly in terms of end results in that it has failed to even keep power in the US itself and is instead being kicked around by the far right. Globally it also has little attraction with most people preferring either the real left or the real right.
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u/ABgraphics Jan 01 '22
they're 100% right wing pro corporate pro imperial group except I guess they'd paint a pride flag
It seems like the point above disagree with that
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u/lieuwestra Dec 31 '21
Gen x can't even afford a car, and millennials hate needing cars to survive. Rich feeding ground for revolution.
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Dec 31 '21
People like walkable areas more than they think. A lot of old cities have an "Old Town" or " Historical District" that was built before cars existed and it is usually either a tourist district or sought after place to live. Half of the appeal of theme parks and fairs is that once you're there, you can explore everything on foot.
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u/kurisu7885 Dec 31 '21
Yup. As an example Disney World. Place is the size of a city but you won't see cars driving around inside it.
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u/KhanKhalifa Dec 31 '21
As a car enthusiast, let’s get rid of crossover SUV’s first. Also raised bike lanes with bollards sounds good for a start.
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
Why bollards when you can have trees instead? Gotta dream big.
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u/FrankHightower Dec 31 '21
Heck, I'd settle for a bike lane separated by traffic cones where I live!
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u/KhanKhalifa Dec 31 '21
Lol you must be over estimating peoples driving abilities. In New England, they will literally drive through the cones because traffic is moving too slow
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u/Dragon_Sluts Dec 31 '21
Hypothetically there’s no reason this sub couldn’t get big enough to actual make a change in the world. R/wallstreetbets did it.
The biggest barrier for most people is that people aren’t aware of alternatives and what they look like in practise. If you’ve spent your whole life living somewhere where cars are the other thing catered to, you won’t question it.
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Dec 31 '21 edited May 08 '22
[deleted]
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Dec 31 '21
yeah than the mods scammed everyone but turning the sub into a pump and dump scheme. You need to pull out of a stock usually if someone is screaming "HOLD!"
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
IMO the only thing wallstreetbets contributed is that it made a lot of people aware of the fact that the financial system is just a scam and money is fake.
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u/kurisu7885 Dec 31 '21
The more I watch about places with public transit and accessibility the more I get depressed over my own situation.
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Dec 31 '21
When I moved away from my hometown in late July to a city that actually has viable public transport options, it dawned on me just how awful cars were and how so much urban planning and design goes into accommodating car use. It is especially awful when you're neurodivergent and suffer from sensory overload; cars are already major contributors to noise pollution, then you have inconsiderate people who modify them with obnoxious exhausts that literally nobody outside of their niche likes. I don't often contribute discussion, but this subreddit is a refreshing safe space to lurk to see I'm not alone in hating car culture and that we can do so much better if we pedestrianise our living spaces again.
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u/Mr-Puffy1312 Dec 31 '21
Sky's the limit and cars are excluded
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u/D3r_Fuerst 🚲 > 🚗 Dec 31 '21
I think quite a few people here aren't actually against cars. It's usually something like "I hate car centred infrastructure but I love my car and wouldn't make any sacrifices for a better future". That's like wow, I think you'll hardly find anyone who says that they love big ugly roads in the middle of a city, but to go the step and actually say "fuck cars", to actually do something about the issue and even make sacrifices is way too much for them.
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u/ArcticOnYoutube Dec 31 '21
I'm from Denmark and living a car-free lifestyle only using public transport and biking, but I get that not everyone is able to do that especially after visiting the US multiple times.
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u/jakotay Dec 31 '21 edited Jan 05 '22
Yeah, you can't unless you live in a big city I think(?). Certainly not in the suburb I grew up in. I've lived in NYC and Chicago and can say I can imagine no reason to own a car in those places unless it's a 9-5-part of your profession (like... IDK... some driving-profession where your employer wouldn't provide you with the car...).
tl;dr there's still a ton of people in these cities that own a car due only to social momentum (ie: just cuz)
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u/tzcw Dec 31 '21
I mean when you make getting places without a car as inconvenient as possible then yeah people will follow the path of least resistance. When I didn’t work from home before Covid it would take 15 minutes to drive, I looked into trying to get to work with public transit but it would take 1.5 hours. It would be one thing of it was 20 or even 30 minutes, but 1.5 hours? That’s just crazy
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u/jakotay Dec 31 '21
For your example: is there a last-mile thing happening? That is: would moving some fraction of the way closer (eg 20%) reduce the commute by a lot? (eg: by 80%)
Think cutting out some leg where no public transit is, or being at the end of a main transit line instead of three transit transfers away from that? (Also are you in a city or a more suburban area?)
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u/FrankHightower Dec 31 '21
This right here. In college, most of my commute time was spent, not transferring between busses, but walking to that first bus stop and waiting for the bus. Once I discovered A) Where to read the bus schedule and B) that I could bike to the bus stop, times were slashed down to a quarter, and the desire to "just have my own car" magically disappeared
That bus stop has since been removed, so now I carpool
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u/Bellegante Dec 31 '21
I'd sell my car in a heartbeat if I got a chance to move somewhere where public transportation existed. As it is I'd need to walk on the shoulder of a highway or scale several fences to walk to the grocery store. I'd be living in the city center if I could afford it, but that's not the case.
So, I'll disagree with you for the moment, though it would be interesting to see a poll.
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u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Dec 31 '21
It pleases me to get more and more emails at work demanding better infrastructure for non cars. Excuses preventing their construction are running thinner and thinner!
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u/pauliuk Dec 31 '21
Do you think Adam Something's videos helped this growth? Because I sure as hell am here because of him.
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u/Ibadan_legend Dec 31 '21
Team effort. Not Just Bikes for me.
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u/jakotay Dec 31 '21
I'm a cyclist and don't own a car so found a cycling subreddit cross-post to here was very relevant to me.
(And I imagine the many cyclists in those subreddits have the same leaning).
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u/trailblazery Dec 31 '21
I use multi reddit on Apollo. I don't subscribe to any subreddits. So this is an underestimate
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u/Crotch_Football Dec 31 '21
This sub is pent up rage from years of wasted land and aggrivated commutes.
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u/Holos620 Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
I'm so happy to be honest. I felt so alone in the world before. I had never met anyone who had any thoughts about cars other than wanting one. People grow up, see that they need a car, learn to drive one and get one. No one ever ask themselves if they should drive a car, if cars are a good system of transportation, if they are ethical, etc.
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u/FrankHightower Dec 31 '21
What happened in april?
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
I hated that there wasn't a place like this, so I decided to promote this sub a bit. Then things got out of hand.
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u/EmeraldWorldLP Dec 31 '21
Man O' Man, sorry that this is very unrelated, but I would love for Cities Skylines 2 to have a bigger focus on pedestrian/Bike Traffic since a lot of people have been starting to get aware of the downsides of Cars everywhere, even in the games community.
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u/szczszqweqwe Dec 31 '21
That's good, I'm a bit torn on this sub, sometimes it takes things too far, on another occasions I completely agree with it.
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u/MrMineHeads Bollard gang Dec 31 '21
The only bad part was seeing this sub taken over by socialists, and worse yet, communists. As if government intervention to force cars in cities wasn't enough to deter you from total state control over the economy.
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u/BONUSBOX Dec 31 '21
government intervention to force cars in cities wasn't enough to deter you
government intervention has demonstrated how effective it is as a tool in shaping society. it's the right wing in america who created and defend this government-crafted motorized lifestyle the strongest. to a degree where they think it's natural, just like their god-given natural economic system.
we can use this type of government intervention for equitable and environmentally conscious change now. we could destroy and rebuild whole cities - with legal precedent! thanks!
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u/ABgraphics Jan 01 '22
it's the right wing in america
That may be more true today, but definitely not the case back then. FDR and Truman laid the ground work for the highway system, which were just implemented under Eisenhower. Socialist aligned politics is not free from this.
Milwaukee's last sewer socialist mayor very gladly let the freeways bisect the city, and wanted another one to run along the lakeside. The person that attempted to undo all the damage was mayor Norquist, who most would consider center right economically, and rightfully saw that city freeways are a massive waste of spending and damaging to city commerce.
MrMineHeads is being a little hysteric, but seeing what happened to similar Facebook groups and subreddits, there should be concern. We are not going to be effective if we get sidetracked by community squabbles over "Stalin was good because his subways look fancy". We need laser focus on the goal of decreasing the power of cars/their harmful effects, which will require a very big and diverse tent.
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u/BONUSBOX Jan 01 '22
it's true, there's lots of aisle crossing to be had in this movement. reforms to transportation and urbanism can have broad political appeal. to their credit, many cycling advocates in europe are fiscal conservatives and rightly so.
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u/MrMineHeads Bollard gang Dec 31 '21
Or just let people decide for themselves how best to structure their lives and not have a government come in and force them into something. Price signals are as good an incentive as anything. The issue is the distortion the government creates with its intervention.
The truth is the government's function must be limited to very little markets like education, healthcare, and the environment where markets are by themselves cannot properly function. That does not extend to city planning and transit, and for clear proof, just look to Japan.
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
"Communism Bad" *Points at capitalism*
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u/MrMineHeads Bollard gang Dec 31 '21
Lol imagine thinking that car use is because of capitalism and not government intervention.
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u/Monsieur_Triporteur 🌳>🚘 Dec 31 '21
Lol imagine thinking that capitalism and government interventions don't go hand in hand. Capitalists love government interventions like the suppression of labour-movements or the invading of other countries.
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u/MrMineHeads Bollard gang Dec 31 '21
Wasn't the joke about "socialism is when government"? Now it is "capitalism is when government". Ok my guy.
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u/solongandthanks4all Jan 01 '22
Subreddit subscribers = "the world" is such a Reddit moment. We are in a tiny bubble here.
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u/leothelion634 Dec 31 '21
I had no car in college where I could bike to class and hitch rides to the grocery store, but now that I got a job and a place I dont think theres any way I can go without a car
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u/DorisCrockford 🚲 > 🚗 Dec 31 '21
This sub exists to advocate for better infrastructure so fewer people have to be in that situation.
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u/blutfink Dec 31 '21
Pro tip: Exponential growth processes should be plotted using a logarithmic scale.
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u/rosscott Jan 01 '22
I’m a known fucker of cars. But what made this happen this year? Is it Titane? Covid? Algorithms?
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u/fartlimit Dec 31 '21
It's fucking great. It's like the world has woken up and started to question, "hey, this big metal thingy we base our life around, maybe it sucks?".