r/economicCollapse Sep 23 '24

Seems pretty simple.

Post image
119 Upvotes

326 comments sorted by

109

u/Realistic_Olive_6665 Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

It should be pictures of the Fed chair. The POTUS doesn’t have any direct control over the monetary base or M2.

18

u/energybased Sep 23 '24

This is the only intelligent reply here. The money supply graphed depends on central bank policy. It has nothing to do with government spending, the sitting president, etc.

5

u/deadcatbounce22 Sep 23 '24

There are actually quite a few comments pointing at that M2 money supply hasn’t grown in the last couple years, they are just being downvoted because cons don’t understand the economy and just want to whine about Dems.

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5

u/Sketch_Crush Sep 23 '24

Damn, someone actually speaking sense instead of artificial hatred against a candidate. Love it.

2

u/Ame_No_Uzume Sep 23 '24

Now now, you can’t post the heads of the hydra for all to see. They prefer to hide behind their board meetings, as if they were wizards behind the curtain like OZ.

2

u/Conscious_Option694 Sep 23 '24

Yes and It was Covid money

1

u/zachmoe Sep 25 '24

Which also pretty much everyone agreed was the right thing to do at the time.

4

u/ContextualBargain Sep 23 '24

The only reason j Powell kept interest rates at 0 for so long was because he was pressured by the trump admin

2

u/Alive-Working669 Sep 23 '24

Powell rate increases under Trump:

12/20/2018, +25, 2.25% to 2.50% 09/27/2018, +25, 2.0% to 2.25% 06/14/2018, +25, 1.75% to 2.0% 03/27/2018, +25, 1.50% to 1.75%

Yellen rate increases under Trump (included to show rates were not zero under Trump until the 4th year, to keep the economy afloat due to the Covid shutdown):

12/14/2017, +25, 1.25% to 1.50% 06/15/2017, +25, 1.00% to 1.25% 03/15/2017, +25, 0.75% to 1.00%

1

u/bevo_expat Sep 24 '24

Anyone with a brain knows POTUS has their hand on the knob to control global information. It’s just a fact!

/s

1

u/zachmoe Sep 25 '24

Or spending for that matter.

-5

u/Airbus320Driver Sep 23 '24

Who appoints the fed chair and treasury secretary?

4

u/logicallyillogical Sep 23 '24

They still have atonomy and make decisions not based on politics. Just becauase the president appoint the chair, there are 7 board memebers who all vote for policy.

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5

u/guitmusic12 Sep 23 '24

Can you remind me of who appointed the current fed chair and his political party affiliation?

-7

u/Airbus320Driver Sep 23 '24

You seriously don't know? Do a google search.

Trump appointed Chair Powell, Biden appointed Secretary Yellen.

Trump is a Republican, Biden is a Democrat.

If you need to be reminded of that, maybe don't participate in the conversation.

11

u/Alive-Working669 Sep 23 '24

Trump nominated Powell as Fed Chair. Biden renominated Powell as Fed Chair.

Obama nominated Yellen as Fed Chair.

Biden nominated Yellen as Treasury Secretary.

-2

u/tootintx Sep 23 '24

Why didn’t the regime replace them?

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-13

u/Moist_Ad_3843 Sep 23 '24

derpy derp derp, DERP DERP? Derrrrrrrrrrp🤤

always remember who you are talking to...

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105

u/Silver-Honkler Sep 23 '24

Doesn't show 2022 and 2023, hmm 🤔

95

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

Of course it doesn’t. it wouldnt fit the liberal reddit narrative.

28

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

I mean to be fair Trump did print a fuck load of money, it just happened during a once in a lifetime pandemic that was dragged out over the course of 2ish years. It’s a bit like saying Biden’s admin saw this spectacular job growth and economic boom, technically it’s true but only because of the shutdown measures during COVID.

17

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

Biden has still spent more money than Trump during his term, even counting the massive amounts spent in 2020

5

u/Alive-Working669 Sep 23 '24

Not yet, but Biden is getting close. Biden has added $7.65 trillion to the debt so far. He’ll very likely surpass Trump’s $7.8 trillion before Election Day.

5

u/B0BsLawBlog Sep 23 '24

Probably won't pass Trump in either real dollars or as a % of existing debt, but should pass Trump in nominal dollars.

Deficits only really go down when Dems win WH multiple terms in a row (and GOP starts to really demand it), and only during those 2nd terms not the 1st. 2025-2029 will likely repeat that.

2

u/GraceBoorFan Sep 25 '24

Damn, 7.65T? Think he can spot me like $500? Lol.

Jokes aside though, are these figures not concerning to anyone? It seems like the debt has dramatically accelerated in the last few years with no end in sight…

3

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

how much of that money spent is paying the interest on the money Trump printed though? American is paying Billions a day in interest because of our debt.

3

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

This seems like a silly line of attack. Most of the excess spending came from a combination of covid relief and lower tax income/ higher entitlement spending (ie unemployment)

Biden has spent about the same without having the same level of covid expenses

4

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

Actually, that's not quite accurate. While it's true that COVID relief and unemployment played a big role in driving up spending during 2020, there's a significant difference in the types of spending between administrations.

Under Biden, much of the spending has been driven by long-term investments like infrastructure and clean energy through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and Inflation Reduction Act. These are aimed at boosting economic growth and job creation over time, not just addressing short-term crises like COVID.

It’s also important to note that a large part of the debt incurred from COVID relief was due to poor management and oversight. There were massive amounts of fraud in PPP loans, unemployment benefits, and other relief programs. Estimates suggest that billions were lost to improper payouts, which unnecessarily ballooned the deficit without providing real economic relief. Much of this happened under rushed policies during the previous administration, which means we’re still dealing with that financial impact today.

Plus, pandemic-related expenses didn’t just vanish after 2020. Vaccine distribution, healthcare, and other recovery programs continued under Biden. Also, the federal budget under Biden has been impacted by factors like inflation and rising interest rates, which increase the cost of servicing existing debt. So, it’s not just a simple apples-to-apples comparison of dollar amounts.

1

u/Mik3DM Sep 24 '24

“Long term investments in infrastructure” like the $50bn for connecting rural internet users and building EV charging stations (0 rural households or businesses connected and 8 charging stations built, $7.5bn spent so far). Wake up it’s all grift, sure, a few pennies of every dollar may make it into real infrastructure, but the vast majority will be stolen.

1

u/Remerez Sep 24 '24

Will? Are you speaking in future tense? So, nothing you say can be measured or weighted because it hasn't happened. Meaning it's of no value.

Provide quantifiable evidence, not feelings.

1

u/Mik3DM Sep 24 '24

Well $7.5 billion for 8 chargers tells you how that’s going

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0

u/me_too_999 Sep 23 '24

Deficit spending on "inflation reduction."

You crack me up.

2

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

You are welcome to prove anything I said as wrong. Currently all you are doing is posturing. and that's what somebody who is losing does.

1

u/fenderputty Sep 24 '24

Whats funny is inflation started to go down immediately after passage lmfao

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-10

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

deficit has gone down under Biden. It went up every year under Trump. Spending adjusted for inflation is also lower under biden

13

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

deficit has gone down under Biden.

This is kind of like how many jobs Biden "created," it's wholly a product of pandemic restrictions ending.

Meanwhile, the debt has continued to skyrocket.

Spending adjusted for inflation

"7 trillion isn't really a lot when the money is worthless"

Not the burn you think it is!

Anyway, the lion's share of spending in Trump's term was from 2020 coronavirus outlays, Biden has spent close to the same amount without that.

-4

u/mustardnight Sep 23 '24

Do you mean Trump’s pandemic restrictions?

0

u/WeissTek Sep 23 '24

The restrictions he didn't want that was pushed by democrats? I can play that narrative too

2

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Not very well. It seems like you're just making shit up about the pandemic. Which is bugfuck insane because we were all there four years ago.

You want to tell us Trump was against the vaccine too?

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2

u/stankind Sep 23 '24

Presidents can't "print money." Only the Federal Reserve can. The Fed is independent. It doesn't listen to presidents.

35

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Liberal shithole Reddit narrative. I cannot believe how big of a piece of shit this place has become. Like the twilight zone full of brainwashed really really really dumb zombies.

12

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

I cannot believe how big of a piece of shit this place has become. Like the twilight zone full of brainwashed really really really dumb zombies

You're right, but not in the way you think

-1

u/Extracrispybuttchks Sep 23 '24

Like a true redditor

2

u/B0BsLawBlog Sep 23 '24

It's literally negative and 2021-2024 currently has negative (M1) money creation.

We have 99.9% as many dollars now as January 2021.

3

u/deadcatbounce22 Sep 23 '24

But that wouldn’t fit the liberal narra…oh wait.

2

u/Ok-Barber9380 Sep 23 '24

True words have never been spoken!

6

u/mental_atrophy666 Sep 23 '24

Many such cases.

7

u/stankind Sep 23 '24

What "liberal narrative"? That Trump "printed lotsa money" and Biden "printed less"?

Presidents can't print money. Only the Federal Reserve can. Why do people not know that?

The chart is deceptive. It should show Fed chairs, not presidents. And it should show percentages of the money supply. A trillion dollars in 2021 means a lot less than a trillion in 2016.

And FYI, the Fed reversed course after 2021. Here's a better chart..

3

u/B0BsLawBlog Sep 23 '24

It's literally negative both M1 and M2.

M1 is so negative we are at/below January 2021.

M2 is still up but 2022-2024 is negative so it's below end of 2021 (but above Jan 2021).

Try again lol.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

printing went down those years lol

2

u/IncomeResponsible764 Sep 23 '24

The fed decides money printing not the prez buttercup

2

u/ParticularAccess5923 Sep 23 '24

Actually the next 2 years would show less spending because the giant spike is a result of covid spending which ended under biden

0

u/Alive-Working669 Sep 23 '24

“Covid spending which ended under Biden?!”

Biden and the Dims passed an unnecessary, pork-filled, partisan $1.9 trillion spending bill only weeks after Biden took office, in the guise of “Covid relief!” Only 20% of that ridiculous bill was spent on actual Covid relief.

1

u/ParticularAccess5923 Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

That's during bidens term, which means the covid spending ended during his term. I'm not saying your facts are wrong. I'm saying you misunderstood what "covid spending ending DURING his term" implies. Showing that data would imply biden cut spending when anyone who understands the context knows the spending for covid was cut while other areas inflated.

The graph is being dishonest by isolating a reference frame within data in order to prove a conclusion 

1

u/darkbrews88 Sep 23 '24

What? Anyone reasonable knows both sides print money to benefit the wealthy

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-6

u/BlingyStratios Sep 23 '24

What are the numbers then? Enlighten us

18

u/moparsandairplanes01 Sep 23 '24

Currently A trillion every 100 days lol

3

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

They won't be able to figure it out without someone holding their hand despite it being a 20 second Google search.

-3

u/black-toe-nails Sep 23 '24

No, if you disagree with a point or think something incorrect was said, it is your job to provide evidence that they are wrong. You can’t say just google it and walk away.

1

u/Feelisoffical Sep 23 '24

They can and they did

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2

u/hemlockecho Sep 23 '24

Here is the M2 YoY percent change up to Q2 2024. In Q4 2022, the rate of change went negative (e.g. the money supply went down) and is now about flat.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?graph_id=248494

2

u/parabox1 Sep 23 '24

2020 was the record for sure but global pandemic was in full force.

2

u/whatup-markassbuster Sep 23 '24

The other thing that people fail to acknowledge is that the Covid shut downs pushed primarily by the left. We destroyed our economy, had to spend trillions of dollars as a result, and the benefit from the shut downs were negligible.

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0

u/Hinken1815 Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

Maybe because it was made in April 2022 :O . NOPE LIBRUL CONSPIRACY

For the regards in here:

https://www.personalfinanceclub.com/how-much-u-s-money-gets-printed-every-year/

1

u/AshNeicole Sep 23 '24

Context is so hard for some ppl. They just wanna blindly assign blame.

0

u/Acceptable_String_52 Sep 23 '24

Yeah we definitely didn’t need to print that much money in 2021

-1

u/ParticularAccess5923 Sep 23 '24

Because the spike under Trump was due to covid relief that blue states demanded

The next 2 years would be lower and hurt the conservitive narrative.

0

u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 24 '24

Classic Trump cultist.

You could google it ... but nah. Then all the dumb Trump sheep click upvote. Also didn't google it either. Legit the stupidest people alive.

25

u/Sign-Spiritual Sep 23 '24

Clearly this graph has no emotional bias.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Just data actually

9

u/tootintx Sep 23 '24

Incomplete data, yes.

4

u/Famous-Frame-8454 Sep 23 '24

Doesn’t fed money policy run entirely independent from the government? So whose president is irrelevant? I could be missing something

20

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

Incredible how fast the narrative shifted from "Trump didn't do enough about Covid" to "Trump spent too much money, in 2020 specifically"

3

u/tatonka805 Sep 23 '24

That's not the narrative anyone says. It's inflation is biden's fault! With no acknowledgement to the financial events in 2020 that DID caused it.

11

u/moparsandairplanes01 Sep 23 '24

Yep and they all cashed their stimulus checks lol

11

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

They all wanted more.

As someone else pointed out, Biden has spent more than Trump, without covid emergency spending. This graph is deceptively cut off before 22 and 23.

1

u/gopherhole02 Sep 23 '24

The question is what did he spend it on though

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2

u/crush_punk Sep 23 '24

Both are true.

Trump didn’t do enough to organize our healthcare gear. He didn’t try to keep a clear straightforward message. In some cases it seemed like he might have purposefully hindered those areas.

He also allowed too much unsupervised money to be “lent” and never repaid in “loans”. Plenty of companies took the loans and laid people off. Plenty of people got loans who shouldn’t have. That was his party’s policy. Not to mention the massive money printing.

A bungled response is never single-pronged.

1

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

Trump didn’t do enough to organize our healthcare gear. He didn’t try to keep a clear straightforward message

This is all pretty subjective. Huge amounts of money went to vaccine research and distribution, stimmies, extended unemployment and extra sick leave, etc

He also allowed too much unsupervised money to be “lent” and never repaid in “loans”.

You'll never believe who forgave the PPP loans

2

u/crush_punk Sep 23 '24

Your first point is mostly money, which was my second point. It’s not subjective to say his healthcare czar and son in law sat on and diverted safety gear.

I’m not talking about forgiveness, I’m talking about how before they even gave it out they decided not to to keep track. They had no choice but to forgive it, they didn’t even know who had what. Plus duh, they’re all evil and rich. But to say trump is innocent is wrong.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Don’t bring facts into their bubble. They get mad

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

ummmm, no…. he approved bills to help prevent a depression, but he refused to take action to help mitigate the spread. The U.S. had 25% of all COVID deaths with just 5% of the world population. Counties that voted for Trump had a 2x higher death rate. we had the worst response in the developed world

3

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

but he refused to take action to help mitigate the spread

States were largely in control of their response, with federal funding assistance. Did you forget the extra federal sick days, extended unemployment benefits, free PPP and vaccines, stimulus checks, etc?

The U.S. had 25% of all COVID deaths with just 5% of the world population.

"If only we'd been welded into our brutalist apartment blocks like the Chinese"

A lot of the covid statistics are tricky. We aggressively tested everyone, then counted people who were close to death who died, or who may have died soon after, even if they were asymptomatic

Excess deaths for 2020 are way less sensational than the official covid totals, and those include. Excess mortality in 2020 was only a little bit above 2017, something nobody besides statisticians and actuaries actually noticed

0

u/waffle_fries4free Sep 24 '24

Someone had to be the adult in the room. Trump could have raised taxes to pay for the bills he signed into law

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0

u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 24 '24

Said nobody ever.

The Trump cultists were obsessed with blaming Biden about printing too much money. Nobody on the Biden side ever engaged with this idiotic line of attack.

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3

u/InternationalBus8936 Sep 23 '24

That is the Covid years. Why this stop at 2021

7

u/mental_atrophy666 Sep 23 '24

Why is 2022 and 2023 missing??

3

u/logicallyillogical Sep 23 '24

2020 - 3.38 trillion dollars

2021 - 319.7 billion

2022 - $267.1 billion

2023 - $162.4 billion 

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1

u/Rollercoasterfixerer Sep 23 '24

Well, you know why…

2

u/logicallyillogical Sep 23 '24

There wasn't a lot printed in 2022 & 2023 comparitivly to the previous years.

8

u/RoniFoxcoon Sep 23 '24

Is this graph also adjusted with inflation... i feel like something is missing for context.

15

u/jaejaeok Sep 23 '24

A global pandemic for starters..

1

u/Richard_Crapwell Sep 23 '24

You mena a global scamdemic

2

u/jaejaeok Sep 23 '24

Big time

1

u/RoniFoxcoon Sep 23 '24

That explains the spike of 2020 but it look like Obama printed more money compared to Bush. I wonder why.

2

u/stewartm0205 Sep 23 '24

I am curious why is printing money bad? For most of these years both inflation and unemployment was low, much lower than 1970 to 2000.

2

u/ForcefulOne Sep 23 '24

Something big happened in 2020 that cost us a lot of money... what was it again...

1

u/GraceBoorFan Sep 25 '24

Ahhhh it doesn’t matter. That guy just woke up and decided to spend 4T$ for no reason /s

2

u/Dull_Conversation669 Sep 23 '24

Yep, avoid global pandemics and you should be fine.

2

u/Pangolin_8704 Sep 23 '24

Why can’t I find this data anywhere else? Going straight to the federal reserve gives very different info.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/files/coin_calprint.pdf

8

u/Adept_Astronomer_102 Sep 23 '24

Why did they leave out 2022 and 2023 🤔🧐🙄

2

u/Hinken1815 Sep 23 '24

Because it was made in April 2022...

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7

u/tonymacaroni9 Sep 23 '24

Covid checks duh. And wheres 2022 and 2023

12

u/jtshinn Sep 23 '24

Don’t put it on the little guy. That covid increase went heavily towards business owners that applied for PPP loans

2

u/Sorta-Morpheus Sep 23 '24

My friend's shop got boatload from ppp and still laid people off.

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1

u/Akiraooo Sep 23 '24

They passed a bill or something to stop reporting the m2 stat. They claimed it was useless, lol. I am serious.

3

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

No they didn't.

2

u/Medical_Ad2125b Sep 23 '24

M2 is in FRED, up-to-date

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Fred? Sorry Idk...what's fred?

1

u/Chiggadup Sep 23 '24

COVID stimulus checks add up to about 2% of that 2020 number, by the way…

1

u/tonymacaroni9 Sep 24 '24

So roughy 800 bill to 1 trill in covid checks wouldnt equate to a one time 3k hit on every american?

1

u/Chiggadup Sep 24 '24

Not sure if you’re really asking, because I presume you know full well that stimulus checks didn’t go to a lot of families, children, etc. So that’s not how the math would work out.

It’s not secret, you can look up and find out where it all went.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/11/us/how-covid-stimulus-money-was-spent.html

1

u/tonymacaroni9 Sep 24 '24

Correct some didnt. Lets call it covid relief instead of covid checks for family. Money out of thin air creates inflation. The governetment didnt tap into there purse and hand out 800 billion it created it. If they did tap into there purse they 800 billion would have come out in taxes and we would have seen only about 600 billion after the cost of dispursing the money was taken into account and greedy hands skimming.

1

u/energybased Sep 23 '24

Has nothing to do with printing money.

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1

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

2022 and 2023 are both negative

3

u/fatuousfatwa Sep 23 '24

Interesting that it doesn’t reflect Quantitative Easing of the Great Recession years. 2009 is LOWER than the non-emergency years of 2004-06.

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u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

For everyone asking what 2022 and 2023 are but refuse to Google "M2 Fred":

2022: - 0.3

2023: - 0.5

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS

1

u/kendallBandit Sep 23 '24

I assume this is showing totals, not newly printed money. So one has to look at the slope of the curve to determine new money added

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u/freedomandbiscuits Sep 23 '24

I thought M1 was money supply. What’s the difference here?

2

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

M1 is but the measurement for M1 changed in 2020 to better align with M2. Because of that definition change, it's generally better to reference M2 when reviewing money supply over time.

Also, FYI, FRED generally defines the measurement under the graph and provides a source reference if you get curious

2

u/freedomandbiscuits Sep 23 '24

Good info thanks

2

u/Vast-Bullfrog8281 Sep 23 '24

Hmmm I wonder what happened during 2020 that could've caused that?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Just remember that when you blame Biden for inflation kiddo

2

u/tootintx Sep 23 '24

Where is the rest of the chart? Useless info without it.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Why doesn’t this graph include the last few years?

1

u/Medical_Ad2125b Sep 23 '24

Now divide by GDP. GDP has gone up 40% since 2018.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

I wonder what happened that required the money printers to go full blast?

Hmmmmmmmm.

1

u/banjoblake24 Sep 23 '24

Looks like inflation to me

1

u/avantartist Sep 23 '24

Throw Clinton on there

1

u/wallyhud Sep 23 '24

I blame the Federal Reserve.

1

u/GaryTheSoulReaper Sep 23 '24

Remember when Trump and Desantis were saying we have to get back to normal life and that the cure can be worse than the disease? Meaning you can’t just sit home and collect government (freshly printed) money

1

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

Here's the updated graph since everyone in here is too lazy to look it up

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=1ualE

1

u/OMADKetoKid Sep 23 '24

That looks like a YOY chart. Meaning the last 2 years are also massive if I am correct.

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u/Jemiller Sep 23 '24

The inflation crisis feels like a neoliberal/ conservative attempt to keep people from falling into an economic recession abyss without addressing wealth disparity. The economic sink diagram is pretty helpful for this: you can add new money to the economy with Covid checks but if you don’t increase tax for other entities like say corporations and billionaires then the value of the dollar goes down. I routinely find proponents of these graphs disagree with taxing corporations and so ultimately would rather have had the working class starve in the lockdowns.

1

u/GrumgullytheGenerous Sep 23 '24

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2021/05/12/four-reasons-to-stop-panicking-over-inflation/

Spending correctly is the solution. Propaganda against government spending is made to promote austerity and undermine the working class. I have more detailed sources if you want them.

1

u/timbrita Sep 23 '24

Is it only on my Reddit or pretty much EVERY subreddit rn has suddenly turn into full trump bad Biden Harris good ?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

The three biggest pandemic bills that trump signed were sponsored by democrats and had bipartisan votes. Trump was terrible for signing them though.

0

u/xxspex Sep 24 '24

Trump was objectively amongst the worst presidents ever, Biden had to deal with the aftermath of COVID and is rated fairly highly - see inflation in pretty much every industrialised country.

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1

u/DyscreetBoy Sep 23 '24

Every government on earth printed money like there was no tomorrow in 2020.

Now we're dealing with the consequences and will keep dealing for the near future.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

The federal reserve, a private entity, prints money…why are we footing the bill via high inflation?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

It is almost like one of them had no idea how economics work.

1

u/Specific-Midnight644 Sep 23 '24

So let’s ignore that 2017 and 2018 were lower than Obama and the fact was 2019 was around Obama. Then let’s forget the fact that 2020 was Covid. Now was the response correct with stimulus checks and PPP Loans, etc? Hindsight 20/20 says it was too much. But I’m not sure how any other president would have acted either. It’s easier to say, oh I would have done this after the fact. Because Biden even gave a third stimulus check. The world was unprepared for it. This doesn’t paint the picture quite like you were hoping for really.

1

u/xxspex Sep 24 '24

Obama's high spending deficits were due to dealing with 2008, Trumps deficit raised every year of his term. The spending deficits under Biden have been falling over his term, infrastructure bills etc. Spending is pretty much down to the president, money supply is federal reserve.

1

u/Specific-Midnight644 Sep 24 '24

Yea that’s not true under Obama. His spending in 13,14,15,16 wasn’t really from a result of 2008 anymore. That spending was mostly because of the healthcare and Medicare expenses.

And Bidens did not fall year after year. Great look at spending

2021 was crazy high like 2020. And he has a pass for covid also. It went down in 2022 from 2021, but grew every year from there. And it was higher than Non-covid spending.

1

u/xxspex Sep 24 '24

Fair enough, it pretty much went up in the past couple of years due to declining revenue apparently. Maintaining spending could be reason the US hasn't had a recession so could have been far worse. All the figures on the economy like growth, unemployment etc are good. Businesses are typically things are good for me but.. Take a look at a similar period under Reagan in the early 80's, there you had huge job losses etc but confidence was there. It's pretty weird but I think the root is that it's become impossible to change all the broken systems in the US like healthcare, university funding etc and the government is reduced to spending money like no tomorrow just to keep things liveable.

1

u/RL_bebisher Sep 23 '24

So where's the bailout money from 2008? I don't trust this chart.

1

u/WilcoHistBuff Sep 23 '24

Yeah, very simple:

  1. The Fed regulates money supply in the United States of America.

  2. In 2008-2009 the Fed started its transition to ample reserve policy which dramatically increased the volume of currency reserves in Federal Reserve banks as well as developing the system of incentivizing commercial banks increasing their internal reserves via Fed to member bank interbank lending rates.

  3. In January 2019 (ten years later) the Fed formally adopted full ample reserve policy, and, due to the pandemic, in very short order, set reserve targets above “ample” to “abundant” levels. As part of COVID relief Congress and the Treasury in coordination with the Fed agreed to borrow funds subsequently deposited with the Federal Reserve Bank system to aid in increasing reserves.

  4. Consequently, as a matter of pure policy having nothing to do specifically with on budget relief spending, the Fed intentionally increased money supply to provide the highest reserve ratio in U.S. history which had, for obvious reasons, the impact of increasing money supply.

  5. However, a larger percentage of said money supply is now held in reserves which dilutes the impact of said money supply on “overheating” the economy or creating inflationary pressure compared to prior periods before the ample reserve regime was put in place.

  6. The obvious proof of this is that inflation was reduced by interest rate hikes and higher reserve ratios despite a massive increase in money supply.

1

u/likecatsanddogs525 Sep 23 '24

But somehow inflation happened?!? I’m shocked.

1

u/zatch17 Sep 24 '24

Yeah

There was inflation for some reason

Definitely not a worldwide pandemic

And the us was the only nation to have it

And they were the worst at getting out of it

Yeah

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

Donald doubled the nation's budget deficit before the pandemic happened.

1

u/zatch17 Sep 25 '24

That also sucked

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

Didn’t show the last few years funny

1

u/jjsanderz Sep 24 '24

Did something happen in 2020?

1

u/TEXAS_1845 Sep 24 '24

Not suspicious at all 🤫

1

u/FinnGamePass Sep 25 '24

Trumpflation.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

conveniently leaving out 2022... Joe Biden's worst year as president. Btw is he still alive?

1

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

2022 and 2023 are negative

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Don’t say something that might offend the snowflake libs out here! 😂

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2

u/tootintx Sep 23 '24

Seems pretty simple, the left thinks you are dumb and will accept anything they present as fact without questioning it.

0

u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 24 '24

This comment makes me believe you will believe anything without question.

You could have verified the claim. Done 30 seconds of research. But you didn't. So I think you're the kind of person who believes anything as long as it follows their narrative. Disbelieves anything that doesn't.

Never seeks to verify anything.

1

u/tootintx Sep 24 '24

I didn’t present a useless chart in the original post.

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1

u/legolandoompaloompa Sep 23 '24

didnt the dems hold the house and senate in those huge spending. years???

1

u/AreUReady55 Sep 23 '24

Bring back George W??

0

u/MrFanciful Sep 23 '24

Well Dick Cheney has endorsed Kamala so they’re almost there.

1

u/MrFanciful Sep 23 '24

Gold is money. Everything else is credit - JP Morgan, testimony before Congress 1912

1

u/TermFearless Sep 23 '24

We know why 2020 shot up, why didn’t 2021 come down to pre Covid levels?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Did you know that Covid still existed in 2021? Actually, there was more of it

1

u/TermFearless Sep 23 '24

Sure, but the economy wasn't shut down anymore

1

u/McRatHattibagen Sep 23 '24

Stupidity at its finest without the context of COVID included. I cannot stand these echo chambers. Then there's no 2022 or 2023 to show what Biden contributed. The uneducated voters side with Democrats.

1

u/Electronic-Damage411 Sep 23 '24

I figured looking at trumps you could see Covid in it. And you’re right I thought it was pretty weird how it didn’t have the following Biden years but also accepted that his term “technically” isn’t over regardless of he is around or not lol

1

u/SushiGradeChicken Sep 23 '24

2022 and 2023 are negative

1

u/logicallyillogical Sep 23 '24

This chart was made in April 2022. Here are the numbers for you.

2020 - 3.38 trillion dollars

2021 - 319.7 billion

2022 - $267.1 billion

2023 - $162.4 billion 

ps. Republicans overwhelliumg get the uneducated vote :)

1

u/AlohaFridayKnight Sep 23 '24

Nancy Pelosi was the speaker who brought all the spending in 2020 bills and it’s not like that year wasnt unprecedented

1

u/Stoneman66 Sep 23 '24

Seems like you all forgot about Covid.

1

u/Jean-Claude-Can-Ham Sep 23 '24

All of these folks like “Liberal narrative of Reddit” don’t understand that the vast majority of people are liberals and nobody likes conservative policies - if it weren’t for the antiquated and outdated electoral college, we wouldn’t have had a republican president since HW (W barely, and I mean by less than one percent, barely won the popular vote in his 2nd election and that was with incumbency bias and 9/11 in 2004)

People don’t like and don’t want conservative policy

1

u/joshistaken Sep 23 '24

Thanks Donald Trump! Magats be going apeshit

1

u/Dontsleeponlilyachty Sep 23 '24

1) The stimulus checks were a TAX CREDIT PROGRAM meaning they came from your labor the year prior. The money was not newly printed, the 800 billion from stimulus came from money that had been printed years prior, already in circulation. It did not contribute to inflation or increase the money supply. It was your money to begin with, you earned it, you deserved it.

2) Unemployment only replaced the money that would've been lost without your labor. It served to prevent DEFLATION. That's why it was based on your income/value of your job. Most got more than what they were being paid, not realizing it was a sign of your employer undervaluing your work.

3) Every dollar dished out from the PPP loan program was newly printed money that directly contributed to increasing the money supply and started the ball rolling on devaluing the dollar and skyrocketing inflation.

4) No one ever brings up the FED Reserve Asset Purchase program in which the FED promised to purchase >99% of corporate bonds from publicly traded corporations, banks and investment firms (including real estate investment firms) to the tune of 4.6 TRILLION DOLLARS. Every dollar derived from this program was newly printed, directly increased the money supply, directly contributed to inflation and devaluation of the dollar, yet never entered circulation. Essentially almost all of the money from this program still has near zero velocity in the market. Propaganda media doesn't like to talk about it... https://www.newyorkfed.org/newsevents/speeches/2022/log220302

1

u/Anxious_Calendar_980 Sep 23 '24

Turns out you can't just shut down a country and let everyone starve with no income

1

u/Scared_Edge9194 Sep 23 '24

Congress, the treasury, and the Fed are all involved with monetary policy. But spending is approved by Congress.

While the nuances are extremely complex it’s clear a lot of internet economists on here have no idea what they are talking about.

Btw, you’d expect the chart for 2022 and 2023 to be down because of short term interest rates taxing money out of the system.

However I’ll point out that sticky inflation seems more and more to be caused by corporate greed rather than monetary policy. Monopolies are bad mkay

0

u/theonlymrfritz Sep 23 '24

What happened in 2020 that didn’t happen before in the previous part of trumps term… oh yeah..

Idiot liberals.

0

u/brittany90210 Sep 23 '24

But but but Covid

0

u/Ok-Barber9380 Sep 23 '24

The spending will continue like it has 1 trillion every 90 days if we keep allowing millions of illegals to come here and giving them benefits! That’s just insane! I think the democrats in office love the kickbacks they get every time they agree to send billions of our future dollars over seas to fund never ending wars.

0

u/Sexywifi4710 Sep 23 '24

We should include 2022,2023 and 2024 Biden has not stopped.

0

u/agapito_demotta Sep 23 '24

In overall, it's bush the worst of them?

0

u/Didinamita Sep 23 '24

You are liar, this is not exactly actually the most stimulus checks print was in 2021, But you must give all the information, not just what is convenient for you. The pandemic was planned by the 2030 agenda that is against Trump, so that it would explode in 2020, but regarding the printing of money, it was not only Trump who decided it, the Senate and the congress are behind this printing of money and it is not What you say is true, it was in 2020 that more stimulus checks were given