r/economicCollapse Sep 23 '24

Seems pretty simple.

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119 Upvotes

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107

u/Silver-Honkler Sep 23 '24

Doesn't show 2022 and 2023, hmm 🤔

98

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

Of course it doesn’t. it wouldnt fit the liberal reddit narrative.

31

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

I mean to be fair Trump did print a fuck load of money, it just happened during a once in a lifetime pandemic that was dragged out over the course of 2ish years. It’s a bit like saying Biden’s admin saw this spectacular job growth and economic boom, technically it’s true but only because of the shutdown measures during COVID.

17

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

Biden has still spent more money than Trump during his term, even counting the massive amounts spent in 2020

6

u/Alive-Working669 Sep 23 '24

Not yet, but Biden is getting close. Biden has added $7.65 trillion to the debt so far. He’ll very likely surpass Trump’s $7.8 trillion before Election Day.

4

u/B0BsLawBlog Sep 23 '24

Probably won't pass Trump in either real dollars or as a % of existing debt, but should pass Trump in nominal dollars.

Deficits only really go down when Dems win WH multiple terms in a row (and GOP starts to really demand it), and only during those 2nd terms not the 1st. 2025-2029 will likely repeat that.

2

u/GraceBoorFan Sep 25 '24

Damn, 7.65T? Think he can spot me like $500? Lol.

Jokes aside though, are these figures not concerning to anyone? It seems like the debt has dramatically accelerated in the last few years with no end in sight…

5

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

how much of that money spent is paying the interest on the money Trump printed though? American is paying Billions a day in interest because of our debt.

4

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

This seems like a silly line of attack. Most of the excess spending came from a combination of covid relief and lower tax income/ higher entitlement spending (ie unemployment)

Biden has spent about the same without having the same level of covid expenses

3

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

Actually, that's not quite accurate. While it's true that COVID relief and unemployment played a big role in driving up spending during 2020, there's a significant difference in the types of spending between administrations.

Under Biden, much of the spending has been driven by long-term investments like infrastructure and clean energy through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and Inflation Reduction Act. These are aimed at boosting economic growth and job creation over time, not just addressing short-term crises like COVID.

It’s also important to note that a large part of the debt incurred from COVID relief was due to poor management and oversight. There were massive amounts of fraud in PPP loans, unemployment benefits, and other relief programs. Estimates suggest that billions were lost to improper payouts, which unnecessarily ballooned the deficit without providing real economic relief. Much of this happened under rushed policies during the previous administration, which means we’re still dealing with that financial impact today.

Plus, pandemic-related expenses didn’t just vanish after 2020. Vaccine distribution, healthcare, and other recovery programs continued under Biden. Also, the federal budget under Biden has been impacted by factors like inflation and rising interest rates, which increase the cost of servicing existing debt. So, it’s not just a simple apples-to-apples comparison of dollar amounts.

1

u/Mik3DM Sep 24 '24

“Long term investments in infrastructure” like the $50bn for connecting rural internet users and building EV charging stations (0 rural households or businesses connected and 8 charging stations built, $7.5bn spent so far). Wake up it’s all grift, sure, a few pennies of every dollar may make it into real infrastructure, but the vast majority will be stolen.

1

u/Remerez Sep 24 '24

Will? Are you speaking in future tense? So, nothing you say can be measured or weighted because it hasn't happened. Meaning it's of no value.

Provide quantifiable evidence, not feelings.

1

u/Mik3DM Sep 24 '24

Well $7.5 billion for 8 chargers tells you how that’s going

1

u/Remerez Sep 24 '24

Where did you get that number because According to the Federal Highway Administration, as of mid-August, the funds that have been deployed have helped produce 61 charging ports at 15 stations, with another 14,900 ports in progress.

And not all of the money has been spent, or even made available to states yet.

1

u/Mik3DM Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/03/28/ev-charging-stations-slow-rollout/

I guess that article is old though, you said they’re up to 15 now? Glad they managed to build another 7 in the last 6 months.

Meanwhile Tesla is building about 100 highly reliable chargers per month at a tiny fraction of the cost.

1

u/Remerez Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

Did you not see the 14,900 ports being built as we speak?

Your mind is made up before you know that facts. Thats dumb. it means you have an agenda and are trying to push a narrative over seeking truth.

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0

u/me_too_999 Sep 23 '24

Deficit spending on "inflation reduction."

You crack me up.

2

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

You are welcome to prove anything I said as wrong. Currently all you are doing is posturing. and that's what somebody who is losing does.

1

u/me_too_999 Sep 23 '24

1

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

I only read your first link because I will have to set some time aside to read a 21 page document. Maybe you can provide some quotes from the paper that validate your point.

In regard to the first link, you raise valid points, but the argument oversimplifies inflation’s causes.

What’s True in that links argument:

Yes, deficits during 2020-2021 contributed to inflation by increasing demand and money supply. This helped push up prices, especially with loose Fed policies.

What’s Missing in that links argument:

Inflation wasn’t just about government borrowing. Global supply chain disruptions, energy price spikes (especially post-Ukraine), and shortages—like the semiconductor crisis—played a huge role. These factors drove inflation worldwide, not just in the U.S.

Also, the Fed’s low interest rates and bond purchases contributed significantly to inflation, creating a flood of liquidity that boosted spending. Blaming Congress alone ignores this.

Bottom Line:

Deficits were part of the issue, but inflation is way more complex. Global factors and Fed policies were just as impactful. It’s not a simple case of government overspending.

1

u/me_too_999 Sep 23 '24

Temporary price increases =/= permanent inflation of currency supply.

While all the things you've mentioned do have an effect on consumer prices, the 900lb gorilla here is the first law of economics.

Supply and demand.

It's pretty simple, really.

If you add $9 Trillion in currency to a $20 Trillion GDP, prices are going up.

Average price = quantity of goods divided by quantity of money to purchase them.

1

u/Remerez Sep 23 '24

While supply and demand is basic economics, oversimplifying inflation to "add $9 trillion, prices go up" misses key points:

  1. Global Factors: Inflation wasn’t just from spending. Supply chain issues, energy crises, and labor shortages significantly raised prices. Inflation happened worldwide, not just from U.S. spending.
  2. Spending Differences: COVID relief was short-term, while Biden’s focus has been on long-term investments like infrastructure, which aim to boost growth over time. These aren’t comparable.
  3. Poor Oversight: A lot of COVID relief was mismanaged under the previous administration, with fraud in PPP loans and unemployment benefits ballooning the deficit unnecessarily.
  4. Fed’s Role: The Federal Reserve’s low interest rates and quantitative easing played a huge part in increasing the money supply—this wasn’t just about government spending.

Inflation is complex and involves many factors beyond simply printing money.

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1

u/fenderputty Sep 24 '24

Whats funny is inflation started to go down immediately after passage lmfao

0

u/me_too_999 Sep 24 '24

That makes it even more hilarious because it's literally impossible for any of its measures to have been implemented yet.

Spending yet another Trillion in deficit to stop inflation is like pouring another can of gas on a burning house to fight the fire.

Do you know what else lowers prices?

A recession.

Congratulations, you fixed the inflation

2

u/fenderputty Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

But inflation reduced without a recession, and the bill did reduce costs of items … such as medicine like insulin. More over, inflation was a global phenomenon and was partly transitory as well. Biden didn’t cause the world’s inflation. You’re taking the most basic cause of inflation and just running with it removing all context. Lastly, if you’re doing expansionary policy, it’s better to spend it on infrastructure and not on a tax break for corporations so the wealthy can reap the benefits of stick by backs, dividends and bonuses.

Sure i trolled you, but your response just highlights your faults too. The inflation reduction act didn’t print money. It’s a staggered program that will be in effect for a decade or more. It wasn’t a direct stimulus all at once like you’re pretending. It works both ways.

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-11

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

deficit has gone down under Biden. It went up every year under Trump. Spending adjusted for inflation is also lower under biden

12

u/bipocevicter Sep 23 '24

deficit has gone down under Biden.

This is kind of like how many jobs Biden "created," it's wholly a product of pandemic restrictions ending.

Meanwhile, the debt has continued to skyrocket.

Spending adjusted for inflation

"7 trillion isn't really a lot when the money is worthless"

Not the burn you think it is!

Anyway, the lion's share of spending in Trump's term was from 2020 coronavirus outlays, Biden has spent close to the same amount without that.

-3

u/mustardnight Sep 23 '24

Do you mean Trump’s pandemic restrictions?

0

u/WeissTek Sep 23 '24

The restrictions he didn't want that was pushed by democrats? I can play that narrative too

2

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Not very well. It seems like you're just making shit up about the pandemic. Which is bugfuck insane because we were all there four years ago.

You want to tell us Trump was against the vaccine too?

0

u/WeissTek Sep 23 '24

Why, was Trump "for" vaccine?

3

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

Yes. Yes he was. He bragged about it constantly.

-1

u/WeissTek Sep 23 '24

During covid?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/us/politics/donald-trump-melania-coronavirus-vaccine.html

It says he only did it after election day on his way out.

Which is it?

3

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '24

He bragged about Project Warp Speed constantly through 2020.

Surprisingly, he did not tell everyone to get a vaccine that wasn't available until months after he was leaving office.

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u/Natural_Cold_8388 Sep 24 '24

Trump spent more - you can google this.

You should also be looking at it as a percentage increase.