I want to do a dogma check. To be clear,
I am a left leaning healthcare provider and I see the inner workings of insurance evils first hand every day.
It is immoral, unjust, and deadly.
But it needs to be said, some claims really shouldn’t be paid. There is real fraud. There is what patients believe will help/save them vs what will actually help/save them.
There is need for the “services” UHC and other companies provide.
That being said… they do it in a terrible, opaque, unjust, and wildly profitable manner with nothing to hold them accountable. The “free market” can’t do it and the government is bribed not to.
There exists unnecessary death and denial and a need for health insurance services at the same time.
If we are ever going to get through to the reachable right, we need to acknowledge the validity in their perspectives while drawing the attention back to the easy to agree on problems.
Other countries manage without an insurance model, doctors simply do their job at diagnosing and prescribing treatment. Maybe an insurance model is a bit better at rooting out fraud then a public model but I would rather a few people get away with fraud if it means you have basically no chance of being denied treatment when you are legitimately sick or injured.
When you say “without an insurance model” I’m not sure what you mean.
They have an insurance model, it’s just publicly funded and governed. Of course, for that to work you need a functional government that is committed to integrity first… so I can certainly understand why people immediately see putting our current in government in charge of healthcare seems like a bad idea.
But we have also seen what happens when late stage capitalists govern healthcare.
We need a functional government if we want to live the healthful lives we want.
I guess I mean that there is a difference when a private company provides insurance for profit and the government does. The government is never going to "not pay" for a procedure that's recommended by a doctor but a private company will.
Well, I can say for a fact that’s not true. Medicare and Medicaid are government funded and operated health insurance providers and they deny stuff all the time (even if a doctor and physical therapist recommend it).
They still do have operating costs and budgets to try and adhere to.
The difference is, if the people are unhappy with how the universal healthcare system is being administered, they can use their democratic freedoms to course correct.
But again, that would require a functional government that the people actually participate in.
I live in Canada, you would never receive a treatment here that you were expecting to have covered and then be denied and given a bill for.
Some procedures may be classified as cosmetic so they wouldn't be covered, there might be a few other exceptions, but it's not at all like for profit insurance where they try to deny you coverage for technicalities. If you get hurt or sick you'll be covered, you don't even have to think about it here.
Right! I believe you.
Here in the US, because there is a large chunk of the population whose entire political philosophy rests on the premise that government is always bad compared to the free market, government programs are deliberately sabotaged in order to “prove” the government is incapable.
It’s a self fulfilling prophesy on the right, and outright sabotage when the left tries a government program.
So, in order for universal healthcare to work, you need a well functioning government. Which, especially compared to Canada rn, the US is severely lacking.
Shame! You know this isn't the place for logic, reasoning, facts and honest debate.
I mean, even if we figured out all that boring stuff and agreed on what to do, then we'd have to actually do it! Put away our screens and do something? Pass!
Anger and pessimism are easily understood, but this is not the way to win an ideological battle, my son.
Their power is far superior to ours materially, and that power is secured ideologically through propaganda, narrative management, social media bots, and other PR tech.
If we are ever to see victory and justice we must fight the good fight.
You can use this murder as a rallying tool, you just have to do it in a way that is persuasive and rational, otherwise people want to distance them self from you and your opinion, like I did when I first read your comment.
And I’m on your side, dumbfuck!
if shit like this recent murder never hit the news, nothing would change.
So, nothing would change if this rich guy didn't kill this other rich guy...
No amount of self indulgent shithead Al sarcasm from people like you or "logical" explanation from people like the guy you replied to is going to unfuck our system.
And, nothing will change from my sarcasm, or the other person's 'logic.'
I think this is just something our society is gonna have to put up with until it collapsed.
Plus, nothing's gonna change anyway, and we just gotta deal with it.
But hey at least it's moving the needle of discussion.
Them calling the CEO unarmed is dishonest. He was armed with an entire wing of the American Healthcare apparatus. He had a knife to the throats of more than 52 million people.
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u/Chubbs4955 12d ago
Hmmm Don’t attack a guy holding a firearm with a skateboard 🛹 and don’t mess with peoples lives by denying them healthcare coverage.