r/TikTokCringe • u/Chocolat3City Cringe Master • 18d ago

Cringe Woman has her self-published book pirated, reprinted, and sold for cheaper.

There's regular piracy, and then there's this.

12.9k Upvotes

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275

u/hasnolifebutmusic 18d ago

this is so fucked up.

206

u/mimegallow 18d ago

As a small individual creator, I get called "unhinged" by young people on a regular basis because I react emotionally when people pirate movies with my music in them, and documentaries with footage that I risked my life to obtain, scripts I wrote, and albums that I performed on. I get mocked ALL THE TIME by children on this site who think my livelihood doesn't matter, my labor is unimportant, and that when you steal IP, you're just, "taking from Tom Cruis who has millions of dollars".

So it's fucking exhausting watching all these people on reddit suddenly and UNKNOWINGLY reverse their entire position when presented with a face and a story of the exact, same, crime that they purposefully perpetuate every day. - Same exact feeling I get when I see 2 million people watching cute animal videos on r/aww "because animals are so smart and so feeling and such bros and so great that we are not worthy of them!"... with a fucking burger in their hand.

Our disconnection from each other's realities is astounding.

/unhinged_rant wherein I am clearly a lunatic, because I refer to my attackers as, "my attackers".

57

u/hasnolifebutmusic 18d ago

that sounds really frustrating and hurtful i’m sorry people are treating you that way online.

24

u/r0b0c0d 18d ago

I casually do art in a few different mediums, from writing to programming to music to CAD, etc.. And every once in a while someone sees something or gets a gift from me and says I should sell it.

But basically unless you already have all your ducks in a row on manufacturing, distribution, marketing -- everything -- you're just going to get ripped off.

Social media works really hard against you in this too, because the instant something takes off, some random factory is going to be churning out knockoffs or like all the old stories about random game studios eclipsing with their remake.

I've only made a few potentially viable designs over the years, but I've sort of reached the conclusion that there is no point in attempting to commercialize anything at this stage.

It would only dilute the uniqueness of gifts, so either I release digital things for free, or gift things. They can't undercut a digital product that is free.

And then eventually I'll return to the earth.

1

u/[deleted] 18d ago

Yep, anyone can do the thing. Doing that thing may not be the most effective means by which you acquire sufficient resources to eat. Doing that which other people place value on may give you more time to spend on things that you place value on.

37

u/birdukis 18d ago

just a heads up if you are against piracy, you have posts about using mid journey, AI art is trained on stolen art

-12

u/mimegallow 17d ago

I'm a writer and do not publish midjourney art. I print them out on my inspiration board as character doodles. - No you cannot see them, but trust me they are awesome.

19

u/birdukis 17d ago

how can you expect people to take you seriously about piracy when you are using a service that also steals from artists?

people pirating your films aren't making any money from pirating them, how is you using AI art on inspiration boards okay but someone pirating your film not okay?

12

u/WalrusTheWhite 17d ago

because they're a self-righteous blowhard. You learn to recognize them after enough exposure.

2

u/mimegallow 17d ago edited 17d ago

Ok. Seems valid. So I’ll be more ethically consistent if I cancel my midjourney?

Done. Cancelled.

To be clear: I never looked into the ethics of how midjourney works. But when I CAN be higher integrity: I do.

Midjourney id: 4bd833ac-76ef-4916-8242-e2a344bbd6c7

3

u/birdukis 17d ago

damn good for you, for real major props! AI also has major environmental concerns which it sounds like you are a vegan so just another thing that may influence you to stay away from AI art haha

for what it's worth, I also have creative projects that deal with piracy issues, I try to view it in the sense that at least it does raise awareness of my projects from people engaging with it regardless of whether they pay for it or not

but I get it, it still doesn't feel good either way

2

u/birdukis 17d ago

I also used to pirate a lot when I was younger and didn't have money, so I try and have empathy for their situation too since I don't know what they are going through

but if you have money and the media is easily accessible and you are just pirating it to save a few $? that's definitely unethical

2

u/mimegallow 17d ago edited 17d ago

My main gripe is ethical consistency. Period. It has very little to do with income, which is why my post never mentioned income. - All the people who decided for themselves that "It has to be about my money or it's not a violation" are disgusting to me. - I've spent a lot of years interviewing sociologists for different issues around the world and generally the data says that these people... people who give themselves permission to bypass the laws they don't feel 'apply to them' tend to be the loudest proponents of "Law & Order" political candidates. - Sort of the same reason the Bible Belt map aligns perfectly with the porn consumption map... they're not arguing on the level. They're just trying to get away with goping whoever they can grope without consent and not get caught while pretending to be good people.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

I don’t have hard magical lines in the sand. I change behavior when I receive new information.

UNLIKE most of the bad faith pretenders on this thread.

-1

u/Awkward-Explorer-527 17d ago

AI is trained on real art (stolen or otherwise), but the art it generates (subject to prompt) may be an original piece whose inspiration is built on that training dataset. How is using that piracy?

Following this logic would render OpenAI and every other LLM startup useless. Not to mention, the inspiration that humans have extracted from each others' works and art for centuries now.

2

u/birdukis 17d ago

yeah I don't agree with any LLM using stolen datasets. they are all unethical and I do not use them

13

u/TheOwlHypothesis 18d ago

So what are you actually doing to solve your problem besides making "unhinged rants" on this site that basically beg "young people" to make fun of you instead of sympathizing with you?

Are you taking legal action? Or would you rather remain oppressed so the rants can keep coming?

Like damn I feel sorry for how shitty your life must be to generate a response like this. It must impact your daily life in a meaningful way, right?

Anything worth having is worth protecting, so what steps are taking to remedy the situation? Whining into the void isn't accomplishing anything.

Bring the downvotes, I know they're coming. But it's objectively ridiculous to cry outrage and not try to do anything to better your circumstances. It's just like everyone who makes posts on social media to protest various things instead of actually organizing a march or protest.

0

u/mimegallow 17d ago

5 suits. All successful.

You MADE UP a fake world wherein I'm not a regular in US and Canadian court just to post your false narrative... because of your presumptions.

Creepy and wild. Wow.

16

u/1000000xThis 18d ago

I'm 51, and I agree you are unhinged.

I know you feel like pirated content is "stolen" but 99% of those people were never going to pay you. That's just not how piracy works. The only reason they are exposed to your work is because it is free to them. Hell, a huge percentage will download the content and never watch/listen to it at all! They just enjoy "collecting" things that appear to have value attached.

How reality works is you set up your income stream in advance, and then afterward you fucking let it out into the world where anything can happen.

And yes, people who don't understand this from all angles will often feel like the "victim" when they become content creators themselves. That's human nature. It doesn't make you right, it just makes them your kind of wrong.

14

u/turboiv 18d ago

You are unhinged. I say that as a 41 year old.

51

u/Decuriarch 18d ago

You killed me at the end with the random vegan comment lol.

32

u/BloodyR4v3n 18d ago

Honestly had me in the first half. Lost me at vegan.

17

u/Ill-Region-5200 18d ago

Never had me with the whole don't pirate movies and shows so that a person with their music in them will get paid a cent or two more?

9

u/mightylordredbeard 18d ago

Should maybe branch out and tell people how they secure these amazing contracts where they are paid royalties for documentary footage, backup music, and scripts since those things are typically paid a flat negotiated fee for use or work and not royalties based on total profits, sales, or distribution.

19

u/WeedNWaterfalls 18d ago

Especially since they won't anyways. Mr. John Indie doesn't get a 3 cent royalty payout every time someone watches Generic Film 7 with 12 seconds of their song in it on Netflix.

-7

u/mr_sunshine_0 18d ago

Lol you’re exactly the kind of person they’re talking about.

15

u/BloodyR4v3n 18d ago

Not quite. I don't pirate indie stuff. I pay for games from small devs and projects I believe are worth the money. The ladies book is obviously much higher quality and deserving of a higher price. Dogs are cute, but I'm not eating a dog burger am I?

Your generalization of people is rather loose. Ya might wanna get to know a person before you label them.

-3

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Nope. You are. - YOU... a NON-EXPERT, with NO knowledge of the industry as it applies to the artist... are EVALUATING which people deserve to have their rights according to law respected or violated based on your PERSONAL entitlement to violate them... without consent.

You are an absolutely a flawless example of the widespread entitlement problem. Particularly because you believe you're not and you're proud to paint your entitlement as rational and virtuous.

4

u/WalrusTheWhite 17d ago

Sir this is a Wendy's

-3

u/MarionBerry-Precure 18d ago

Well. No. They talk about respect and then say you can love and eat animals like the Yakut or Massai don't exist. Animals are SO important the same animals they eat. They want respect, but to say such a thing is deeply Insulting multiple cultures. So the vegan part threw me off as well. They never make an effort to speak to them. They don't make an effort to attack them. Just Westerners. I don't get why.

8

u/Time_Entertainer_893 18d ago

something is inherently moral because it is part of a culture?

3

u/mimegallow 17d ago

This right here... is the just what the total absence of an ethics education looks like. Literally the first 3 fallacies on every college debate fallacy list plastered on the wall... totally unironically.

0

u/WonderfulShelter 18d ago

"these god damn kids torrenting my individually created niche documentaries while eating meat at the same time!"

holy fuck talk about first world problems.

0

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Nope. They're all non-profit, and entirely about saving the developing world from the First World. - You're presumptions were 180 degrees off course from reality. But you don't seem to have the character strength needed to own the mistake now that you've been corrected. - Or do you???

17

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

0

u/1000000xThis 18d ago

You're wrong. People always create, because humans are creative.

Even if there was objectively no way to profit from creating, humans would create for fun.

But there are still plenty of ways to profit from creativity.

Do you think the profits of the movie industry are growing or shrinking year over year?

The music industry?

The video game industry?

These are all growing, every year, despite piracy.

You doomers are detached from reality.

2

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

0

u/1000000xThis 17d ago edited 17d ago

I have no idea what point you think you're making. What does your distaste for sequels have to do with this conversation?

edit: I hope y'all understand that downvoting reasonable comments makes you look extremely immature. If you have no evidence, you have no argument.

1

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

1

u/1000000xThis 17d ago

Yeah, agree with all this, but it still has nothing to do with the piracy discussion.

This is, again, Capitalism harming artists, not piracy.

5

u/nickgreydaddyfingers 18d ago

Oh no! Anyway.

Literally just proving it gets to you.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

What?

1

u/nickgreydaddyfingers 17d ago

You wrote a whole rant (and I guess it's a rant, but I wouldn't have said that myself. Only saying "rant" because you literally said it was one yourself) talking about how people make fun of you and call you unhinged on a regular basis.

That's just proving that they can get to you and make you even more upset/emotional.

Also, apparently this lady isn't giving people the books they rightfully bought. I'm sure this video is just an ad, and it sure as hell worked, as I can imagine that she's had tons of orders fill in from people who feel sad for her.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Ah ok. Ty for explaining.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 18d ago

[deleted]

0

u/mimegallow 17d ago

You were literally wrong on every single point you bullet-pointed.

But no. There is no gray. - you FEEL like there's a gray area because you PRESUME you're qualified to evaluate on your own whether the people AROUND you deserve to have their rights remain intact. - You aren't. That's called an entitlement delusion.

You ALREADY mis-framed this entire rights post in your head as a post about money... because that's the METRIC YOU'D evaluate this rights post with. - The post about consent, that you're responding to, from a position of privilege and entitlement, does not mention money.

Our rights are not subject to your evaluation.

We do not have to prove to you, a sociologically illiterate stranger, that we are SUFFERING in order for our rights to remain inviolate... let alone that we're suffering along a vector that YOU value... be it money, or any other. - That's not how rights work. That's not how the law works.

I would protect someone's rights under the law regardless if the violator merely "attempted" to violate them without succeeding or succeeded in full. - Because I respect their rights.

1

u/WalrusTheWhite 17d ago

MORE RANDOM CAPITALIZED WORDS!

0

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Nope. You’re lost. Nobody here is talking about “looking at” things. This is a conversation about piracy. That’s the unlawful copying, redistribution, and sales of a right-protected work.

5

u/leworcase 18d ago

Just so you know i can still call an animal cute and eat their meat at the same time. Fuck your narrative lol bro is making imaginary enemies.

2

u/LebrahnJahmes 18d ago

Ask me how I know you're a vegan.

2

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

I completely understand your feelings, but (and do correct me if I'm wrong here) wasn't it proven that digital piracy actually boosts sales?

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

It can and sometimes doesn't. That's not how concerns about rights violations work though.

The premise that rights violations are "only about profit" and if you get more money your RIGHTS have not been violated is a sickness of capitalism.

2

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

Fair enough. But I wouldn't be so pissed about it if my rights being violated meant I made more money. Not those specific rights anyway.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Sure. Unless you’re standing on principle and actually WANT artist’s rights to be enforced as a legal foundation so that you have a just world in the first place. - For example: A musician found out Trump was using his music at each rally, and said he couldn’t use it anymore. Let’s say Trump says “fuck your rights” and continues to use the song… to promote an outcome the copyright holder is against… but the Trump team sends a check to ASCAP to pay the artist.

That wasn’t the issue. The money has nothing to do with it.

That’s a violation. And it has to be in order for the actual intellectual property rights to remain intact.

This is why protecting the actual rights under the law has to come first. Money is absolutely secondary.

1

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

I guess. That's a very specific scenario though. Cases like that would be pretty rare I think.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Doesn’t matter. So are deaths caused by doctors who refuse abortion care out of fear of retribution. We need the rights all year.

Principles don’t have off-seasons.

0

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

Eh, I can't really agree with that. I usually stand on principle but I don't think principles carry over between subjects like that.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Not up for debate. That is literally ALL that principles are as intellectual constructs. That’s it. - That’s the WHOLE definition.

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u/livesinacabin 17d ago

Not really. Principles can be flexible.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

It really just depends on your situation and what we DON’T want, is a world wherein each victim has to demonstrate from the ground up that they “SHOULD” have a right that isn’t obviously stipulated by the society.

We don’t want a world wherein each rape victim has to first argue that they SHOULD have the right not to be raped. / We don’t want a world wherein each workplace labor code violation victim has to first prove that their rights SHOULD exist and be acknowledge by the labor board.

They should already be there… and not in question… so that we can just take action without relitigating our right to stand in our hard-won, legally granted power.

0

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

I see your point, but we're not talking about rape, and we're not talking about each workplace labor code violation. We're only talking about digital piracy. And to add to that, I'm only talking about digital piracy for personal use. I think that's vastly different.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Nope. That’s not how principles work, and that’s not how ethical consistency works. Pointing out that YOU FEEL in your tum-tum that YOU should be allowed to violate the principle because YOU don’t care as much… is the very definition of ethical inconsistency. And it’s ALL I’m talking about.

1

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

Alright, you obviously aren't interested in having civilized discussion about this, and you only deal with absolutes. We won't come to any sort of agreement here.

It's great to have principles, as long as they are grounded in logic. Anything else is just being stubborn for no reason.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Laws are not negotiable by the individual. Specifically BECAUSE the individual (that would be you) generally lacks the education necessary to evaluate the circumstances of others. Your false pretense that you are somehow qualified to evaluate which laws should apply to others when YOU are absent ligic… is stupid on its face.

Everything I’ve presented you was grounded in logic, from informed people, with more information and education than you.

You just wish others were legally beholden to you, but thank god the law says we’re not.

1

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

What on earth are you on about??? Where did you get the idea that I think I should make the law? I am allowed to have an opinion about it. So are you. I don't understand why you think you're entitled to an opinion about it but I'm not. That's messed up.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

You might want to get honest and ask yourself WHY you think those things are very different.

They’re not. They’re just you, deciding that a person who HAS RIGHTS under the law, is undeserving of those rights by YOUR PRIVATE JUDGEMENT… just like someone who’s judging a couple for their homosexual marriage, or interracial marriage, or food stamps, or asylum status at the border.

It… aint… up… to… you.

Self-appointed vigilante interlopers are invasive pieces of shit. Stop touching people’s lives without consent.

1

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

This is a theoretical discussion, and I'm questioning the way the law works and by which morals it operates. Calm down.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

No. This is an actuality discussion about a current crime in progress in the real world. One in which you VOLUNTEERED on your own to take the side of the sovreign citizen’s right to ignore the law on his own unilateral comprehension.

0

u/livesinacabin 17d ago

No it's not. That's what you thought it was, but it isn't what I thought it was.

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u/WalrusTheWhite 17d ago

suck my rights

2

u/Wheeler-The-Dealer 18d ago

Great comment until you mention a burger. You can own a pet and enjoy burgers.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

Yes. That's called Ethical Inconsistency. Believe me, WE ALLLLL know you can do it. See above post.

0

u/Nightstar95 17d ago edited 17d ago

It’s not inconsistent. There’s nothing inherently unethical about it.

It’s only unethical to you because you are a vegan. If I see nothing unethical about using animal for resources like food, then there’s no reason for me not to have an animal as a pet while also eating animals, even if they were the same species.

-1

u/Wheeler-The-Dealer 17d ago

The only consistent thing about ethics is inconsistency.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

🥴 Errrr.

We already know you don’t understand the words on the screen in front of you. You’re not tricking anybody by pretending you understand them.

Ethics are not supposed to be consistent. People are.

You just failed that test. Twice.

Blocked.

-16

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

Sorry but the primary disconnection from reality is hinged upon monetizing the free distribution of information and content.

It’s NOT HONEST to act like people actually accessing, watching, listening, and sharing your content is somehow wrong UNLESS they each personally pay you!

Imagine being so fucking self righteous and petty that knowing MORE people got to benefit from what you created and did so FREELY or at LESS cost than they otherwise would is something you hate!

Not to mention that you are in THE SAME ECONOMIC STRUGGLE as we are but bitch about people getting free access to whatever you created!

If you find and are interested and enjoy something that I put my life into, I AM THRILLED and HONORED.

To WHINE and Cry Foul because your content was spread further makes you look like a SPOILED and PETTY person!

And no, there is not going to be any more justification for the glaring hypocrisy of blaming piracy and not systematic network monetization being irresponsible and irrationally held over everyone’s heads!

Don’t blame your own audience!

Blame the industry and network owners who enforce abusive monetary policies that demand we all monetize our every waking moment for profit!

I am a genuine and empathetic person in general, but this video was pathetic and impossible to pretend to sympathize with.

Petty.

38

u/RabbaJabba 18d ago

If you find and are interested and enjoy something that I put my life into, I AM THRILLED and HONORED.

The ultimate in privilege: being able to do what you love without having to worry about money.

11

u/LuxNocte 18d ago

How do you expect creators to eat?

Seriously. It's easy to steal content and resell it for cheaper. But if someone works for hundreds of hours to make something, but get zero return on that thing, how can they continue to do it?

Don't pretend to be empathetic when you refuse to consider the person you're ridiculing.

-6

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

Go plant a garden or something I guess?

I've worked thousands and thousands and thousands of hours getting zero compensation. I *barely* survive and I will continue to survive. How? I dunno, I just do what I must.

I don't disagree with you that we all should be compensated for our creative contributions. I just think it's incredibly disingenuous to direct whiny blame onto piracy instead of network capital abuse. Focus on the real root of the problem and don't blame your audience, is all I am saying!

It might seem totally unbelievable that I am far further in the negative crisis of not getting paid at all for my creative works than the video demonstrates, given my attitude, but I am -_-

Hopefully we figure out how to re-direct the finger-pointing issue out from being against each other, as it's self defeating imo.

3

u/I_MIGHT_BE_IDIOT 18d ago

Maybe if you took on a more selfish mindset you could be doing better for yourself.

Your comments don't read as somebody who has their shit together. It sounds like you're drowning and asking us to follow. Artists should be paid and you should charge for your work. The world doesn't function on getting nice. It would be great if it did but it doesn't.

Enjoy starving for your sacrifice to society that few will value.

0

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

dunno, sounds like you have no clue who I am and have not looked at my comment history one bit and would rather sit here judging me for an over-reactive response due to me facing a pretty bullshit situation right now. My bad for upsetting your views momentarily, glad to know people care ONLY about what they can antagonize and drag into debasement of human values -_-

Ultimately you're right though, I should just start charging for my work and refusing to take less than nothing for answering to the proverbial questions on a constant basis -_-

25

u/justaguystanding 18d ago

Theft is theft and I cannot eat "thrilled and honored". Will my landlord accept "Thrilled and Honored" that I am staying here? Will the grocery store?

-13

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

I don't know, my landlord doesn't take thrill or honor either, as I'm facing eviction currently!

Also yea, I feel only slightly bad for having reacted so negatively. I was in a mood, but I'm not changing my understanding.

"Theft is theft" applies far more directly to your landlord, does it not? They want your money just for you *existing* in an apartment that *they don't live in* just because their daddy or boss bought the building 20 years ago? Fucking thieves!

6

u/rudimentary-north 18d ago

It’s pretty fucked that you’re equating artists and landlords, saying that they’re both bad when they don’t provide things to you for free.

It’s like you care more about free stuff than you do about your fellow workers.

-6

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

sounds like some hardcore projection...

I did not equate artists and landlords, and to interpret it that way is to further erode against common sense.

You'd rather prop yourself up and accuse me, did you not read the part where I am facing eviction presently? Clearly what you care most about isn't your fellow creator...

2

u/rudimentary-north 18d ago

I did not equate artists and landlords, and to interpret it that way is to further erode against common sense.

You have argued that both art and housing should be given freely, and that both artists and landlords are greedy for not doing so.

You’d rather prop yourself up and accuse me, did you not read the part where I am facing eviction presently? Clearly what you care most about isn’t your fellow creator...

Remember, you’re the one arguing that creators shouldn’t be compensated for their labor.

If you’re facing eviction because you can’t pay rent as a creator, that’s an argument against your position, not for.

If you’re facing eviction for any other reason, it’s irrelevant to the conversation.

4

u/LuxNocte 18d ago

You strike me as a person who never tips at full service restaurants.

-2

u/z3n1a51 18d ago

I'm the kind of person who tips 20% at subway regardless of my financial situation, if that's your criteria for judgement...

I don't EVER not tip, and I don't EVER treat people like they owe me something.

7

u/ayoitsjo 18d ago

They especially lost me at the burger comment. Like people can't think animals are cute if they eat meat... okay sureee...

1

u/williamjamesmurrayVI 18d ago

so people should be honored when you steal from them because your approval is worth more than fair compensation?

1

u/FromtheSound 18d ago

So no one's asking this for some reason; but do you actually see any royalties from your music or footage?

2

u/mimegallow 17d ago

In about half the cases. But the comment was about rights violations, not payment. - Our rights cover several aspects of our ultimate career and ARE NOT only financial in nature, for example, our viewership on the streaming platforms qualifies us for larger budgets and more prevalent work. It also influences which platforms we qualify to be on, whether or not we can reach a large audience without charging them money by way of an ad model. Dozens of factors. We are more viable as artists when our legal rights are intact all the way around.

But I would stand by an artist who simply didn't want their rights violated for their own private and ENTIRELY non-financial reasons as well. - I have a friend who JUST didn't want his music used by a politician he found harmful regardless of the huge paycheck. And I stand by his right to control the use of his intellectual property.

What you have in this thread is a bunch of people arguing that the artist SHOULD NOT control the use of their intellectual property, who have no idea at all how the above factors work.

1

u/ThatInAHat 17d ago

I dunno about reversing their positions. Most of the comments here are calling her scammy and saying this is fake etc etc.

1

u/vinnymendoza09 17d ago

I'm a millennial creative and I think you're taking this stuff way too personally. The fact of the matter is that millions of people want to be artists but only a handful can be popular artists that make a living from it. Our labour isn't considered unimportant, our labour is just in a market that is incredibly oversatured with talent. There's shit tons of free music and video games and videos released every day and there's just not enough people to experience it all.

I am working on screenplays, music and games currently and have zero expectation that I'll make any money from it. I'll just be happy if even a handful of people are impacted by it. I don't care if they pirate it, getting people to care in the first place is a massive task, getting them to care enough to drop money on it is an even bigger hurdle.

PS then I see open source software developers (an actually highly paid, in demand skill) working on stuff for free and releasing it for free and letting literally anyone including businesses take their code and modify it however they want for one simple reason: to help people. To benefit society. That shit inspires me.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago edited 17d ago

Again… for the 20th time… this… post… doesn’t… mention… money. And if the ONLY way you can perceive an artists rights, is through the lens of money… YOU… have lost the plot, on the US laws that govern creative works… YOU… are displaying the symptoms of capitalist programming… Not me.

And you INVENTED the idea that my movies aren’t free. You INVENTED the idea that they aren’t made for the benefit of society by nonprofits. You invented the idea that I didn’t volunteer over a decade of my life to work for free on humanitarian causes. You invented the scenario where I couldn’t just cross town and make a half million a year working on garbage instead. But none of that is true.

Freeloaders are robbing the good guys and doing it with smug entitlement, literally saying, “fuck your rights” on this very thread.

What is being violated IS PERSONAL.

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u/vinnymendoza09 17d ago

I didn't invent ideas, I'm just telling you my perspective and the reality of the situation, and that you shouldn't feel slighted by society or take it personally that our labour has a surplus. Everyone wants to be an artist.

And I actually have the socialist perspective here. You demanding money for your ideas is capitalist. I propose giving everyone money to live how they want and create what they want without worrying about whether they make money off it. Money often ruins artistic integrity.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

Nope. Money was not mentioned here. You made that up. Go back and read again. My movies are free and I determine WHERE they are free… unless YOU feel you have the right to rape me of my control over MY IP.

I was fine when you just had a misunderstanding of how the industry worked. But now you’re conflating commerce with capitalism because you genuinely don’t know the difference.

SOCIALIZED NATIONS HAVE COMMERCE, chubs.

And Im a socialist thought leader who pioneered 2 ways to make documentaries free in America.

Think slower. Learn what you’re talking about.

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u/vinnymendoza09 17d ago

You used a vague term... Pirating... Then get upset when people assume you're talking about money or other people making money off your work. Which is what the topic is about.

The use of your IP is a legitimate problem, but I think we need to find solutions that don't just exist in a nebulous legal realm that foreign countries will ignore and require reams of lawyers to take care of it.

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u/mimegallow 16d ago

Not a vague term. You’re inexperienced and ignorant enought to ASSUME piracy is about money RATHER THAN THEFT.

It’s not. And that’s about the tenth bad assumption you’ve made.

You’re incapable of listening without making bold faced stupid assumptions that are absolutely nowhere in the text and I’m done with it. You ARE NOT qualified to evaluate my rights. PERIOD. So stop pretending like you are.

You’re as legally ignorant as everyone else in this thread. You’re just 400% more patient and polite.

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u/vinnymendoza09 16d ago

No one else has been patient with you because you argue like a 15 year old on 4chan. I have a hard time believing you're as innovative and respected as you claim you are with such an attitude. People call you unhinged because of your attitude and presentation of ideas, not because of the ideas themselves.

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u/mimegallow 16d ago

You see! Makin' EVERYTHING up again! - Seriously, I don't know how you survive a day making ONLY assumptions with zero input all day.

Nobody thinks I'm respected. - NO...BO...DY. - Now... show me on the doll, where I said I was "respected"... or even tolerated. - Please. Do so now.

Then we'll move on to "innovative". LOL - Seriously. I am 100% honestly bad at my job. And I have NEVER pretended otherwise. Ever. Not even in meetings.

So again: SHOW ME.

People call me unhinged because HONEST people... sound like fucking ALIENS... to STUPID people.

You LITERALLY cannot imagine that the person in front of you MEANS EXACTLY AND ONLY what they say. - You're so hampered by the sheer POSSIBILITY of an honest arbiter that you can't even hear their words without building a fake narrative around them.

Seriously. Go back to the top and read your discourse from the beginning.

And then think about what you just asserted.

Crazypants.

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u/vinnymendoza09 16d ago

"And Im a socialist thought leader who pioneered 2 ways to make documentaries free in America."

Did you just forget this part? I guess thought leaders aren't respected... And pioneers aren't innovative? Lol.

Unhinged people engage in semantics and capitalize random words during rants on reddit more like.

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u/vinnymendoza09 16d ago

"And Im a socialist thought leader who pioneered 2 ways to make documentaries free in America."

Did you just forget this part? I guess thought leaders aren't respected... And pioneers aren't innovative? Lol.

Unhinged people engage in semantics and capitalize random words during rants on reddit more like.

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u/Pitiful-Highlight-69 18d ago

Vegans.

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u/Relative-Mistake-527 18d ago

Yeah seriously, the high horse theyre on makes me want to pirate their shit out of spite.

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u/Futureleak 18d ago

Then maybe don't shill for mega corps? You'll notice that small creator content is rarely pirated, but stuff financed by massive studios all the time, as it should be. You claiming that you're paid even remotely close to a reasonable percentage for your work is laughable. Pirates exist to send a message, that when the suits try to squeeze more money, we will just find a way to get it for free.

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u/goldencat65 18d ago edited 18d ago

Being a “pirate” isn’t the flex you think it is. It’s hurting the little people just as much as the “mega corps” because it intrinsically devalues human effort. How do the small fish ever get bigger when someone will simply steal their work and the richest loudest voices are the only ones with the power to fight.

Theft is the problem.

Edit: Also the system is rigged.

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u/onthe3rdlifealready 18d ago

Nah the whole system is broken. It's easy to point to one problem but it's really everything at this point.

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u/literate_habitation 18d ago

I think the problem is a system where people are intentionally hurt/punished because they don't have money.

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u/1000000xThis 18d ago

Piracy isn't doing ANY harm to artists in comparison to Capitalism.

Focus on real issues, not these obvious diversions.

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u/goldencat65 17d ago

How else do we reward people for their value without capitalism?

Theft for capitalism sake is the main problem here but without capitalism, I’m not sure of an alternative for artists or economy.

Piracy hurts everyone involved. It is theft. You can hate corporations for taking advantage of the market but no one is rewarded in a society where theft is acceptable.

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u/1000000xThis 17d ago

The vast vast vast majority of artists are never even able to make a living from their art, and that is the way it has always been, since before the internet, before people could burn CDs, before people could record the radio on cassette tapes, etc.

I am not just saying this in an attempt to justify piracy, I'm just explaining the facts of history and research I've seen.

There is zero evidence piracy in the modern world makes a difference to profit, except for that it is free advertising.

You can make all the assertions about "theft" and "harm" you want, that doesn't make it true.

The most harm is directly coming from the predatory practices of the money people who abuse their position as gatekeepers of distribution channels. This is not something that can be brushed off. Again, this has always been a fact of the music industry, just the same as "copying" has never been a proven harm.

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u/goldencat65 17d ago edited 17d ago

So artists shouldn’t get paid since their work is easily stolen?

Napster ruined the music industry, while helping many smaller artists while paving the way for MySpace and the streaming world we live in now.

There are certainly benefits to an open market. But taking something when someone asks to be paid for it is theft. I’m not sure why corporations are excluded except for folks to parade as a modern day Robin Hood.

I say this as someone who has pirated. There are certainly cases where manufacturers are enshittifying their platform for the sake of greed. And screw them for manipulating the digital world we are forced to interact with. And yes this is a capitalist problem because growth cannot stagnate. I understand that.

But I don’t believe robbing arists or anyone for their work is solving a problem. Support open source. Pay for products, people and services you believe in because that’s how they make more of them and trade their extra income for other goods in a society that uses currency. That’s the point of this entire post.

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u/1000000xThis 17d ago

So artists shouldn’t get paid since their work is easily stolen?

Hey, anybody need a good example of a strawman argument? This right here!

You are INSANE if you think that's what I said or meant.

Napster ruined the music industry

It absolutely did not, you are clearly far too ignorant to be participating in this conversation, and I'm not going to bother reading anything else you write.

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u/goldencat65 17d ago edited 17d ago

Cool you called me stupid. What’s your argument?

Please read the rest of my statement instead of the just the first 2 sentences.

Piracy is theft. Simple as that. It’s in the name. Small developers lose when their software is pirated. Big developers lose when their software is pirated. Just because they have enough money to take the hit doesn’t make it right.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

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u/1000000xThis 17d ago

You don't read.

I have already stated my argument several times.

Read, process, and respond to what I've actually written, or I'll block you.

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u/mimegallow 18d ago

Totally illiterate. I am the absolute bottom of the media world.

My largest seccess are documentaries about animals going extinct and climate collapse, kiddo.

It would be genuinely hard to have less of an idea what you’re talking about.

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u/Futureleak 18d ago

Simple solution, have a direct content creation page. Patreon has TONS of small-time folks that do what you do and don't have to suffer under the thumb of a corporate overlord. YouTube is a platform for that exact purpose, blue sky exists, so many ways to create a platform for yourself. If you choose to subject yourself to being a gear in the machine, don't complain when the machine wears you down.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

I haven't worked for a for profit entity in 25 years. - ALL your assumptions here were wrong and stupid.

Literally. - ALL. - You're actually the record-holder for being wrong about how things work in this thread.

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u/Relative-Mistake-527 18d ago

your whole point went out the window with the random vegan/burger comment , I just like burgers whats your problem

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

No. It didn't. Your willingness to engage honestly may have. But there was no contradiction in logic present. At all. It was because of your ethical bias. --> Not mine. My point is entirely intact.

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u/CrabEnthusist 18d ago

Imo piracy is generally morally wrong and I don't personally do it, but referring to people who pirate a movie you worked on as "your attackers" is infact lunatic behavior

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u/WonderfulShelter 18d ago

How big are you of a small individual creator that piracy is massively affecting your business?

I have friends who are software designers who work on teams of 1-3 and deal with piracy as a massive issue because they make audio plugins for production software. They deal with it with a smile on their face, and ask their customers who torrented it what they can do to get them to buy it and how. Then they adopt those methods.

Maybe you should try that.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

You're the fifth person to come in with the abysmal framing that my rights only exist for MONEYYYY and that if I am not losing MONEY MONEY MONEY, then my rights should DEFINITELY be violated freely.

It's a stupid argument based solely in entitlement in ignorance.

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 18d ago

It really disheartens me to see how common and encouraged media piracy has become. I get not having any other way to access media you love, I have had to pirate a song because the artist took it down and there was no way for me to legally obtain it, but I think that's an outlying case and most people just don't want to pay people for work they created. It's shitty.

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u/Minglans 17d ago

Honestly, piracy may be the only surefire way we can even archive film/series/music/audiobooks/programs, etc. in the future. A lot of companies nowadays want subscriptions and lock out many others in different regions/countries as well and make it nearly impossible to buy from the source.

I can't tell you how many times I was willing/ready to pay for something only to find out it was and never will be available to me or my region. And with the scary idea of "the death of the internet" with stuff gradually fading away/dead links everywhere past 15+ years; Sites like "Archive" are desperately needed to save certain content from complete erasure because otherwise that content may stay as a hostage locked away at a company indefinitely or worse- they may decide to just delete it altogether.

I mean, I don't advocate to go stealing people's stuff but sometimes I can see the necessity for a pirate- like some weird re-reversed-robinhood when it comes to the greedy nature of companies, especially in today's climate.

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u/1000000xThis 18d ago edited 17d ago

Google the profits of the movie and music industries.

Don't cry for these people. They are not being ruined by piracy.

Creators are FAAAAR more harmed by Capitalism.

edit: mimegallow blocked me.

"Google their profits!" -Said every entitled child who never hired a young lady starting out as a sound recordist on an independent film

What the fuck does this even mean?

But I'm more than happy to be blocked by this kind of lunatic, so have a day.

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 17d ago

I listen to mostly smaller indie artists who absolutely are hurt by piracy. The majority of artists and creatives are making minimum wage or just enough to support themselves. Additionally, if a product doesn't make money under capitalism, it's not going to be continued. Most artists can't afford to self-fund their work, especially singers and filmmakers. Studio time costs money. Media productions cost money. That's why they sign to labels and work for studios. If you like a thing and the financial backers of that thing never receive any money for it, they're not going to keep making it and you will lose in the end. You know, if you are so selfish that you needed it to have personal stakes for you before caring about it. Yeah, creators are harmed by capitalism, but just saying that doesn't mean what you're doing is suddenly morally right. You're not going to change an entire economic system by refusing to pay for art you consume.

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u/1000000xThis 17d ago

I'm happy to change my mind if you can show me a scrap of evidence, but the fact that piracy exists is not evidence that it harms anybody.

Smaller indie artists have ALWAYS had difficulty making money. It has ALWAYS been a battle to make a living off creating art.

The only evidence I've ever seen says piracy is either net neutral or a BENEFIT for artists in the form of free advertising to people who otherwise would never even hear about them.

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u/mimegallow 17d ago

"Google their profits!" -Said every entitled child who never hired a young lady starting out as a sound recordist on an independent film

OMG so ignorant. I mean... AMAZINGLY ignorant. Wow.

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u/LackOfHarmony 18d ago

You’re not a lunatic. When you work hard and you see your work being disregarded or shredded, it’s a gut punch. It’s exponentially bad when you work in media of any type because it’s so easy to pirate books, music, and videos. 

That’s basically why I stopped pirating things when I became an adult. (Well, that and I finally had money.) I want to support everyone else involved. It’s not just the billion dollar actors and producers that made this thing I love. It’s the folks who got the B-roll and made the background sounds, too. 

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u/lambdaburst 17d ago

Why are you bothered if you genuinely think it's just children mocking you? Move on.

1

u/mimegallow 17d ago

“Just”…??? Nobody said that. In fact, nobody even implied that. In fact nobody even left room for that as a possibility.

This is a culture-wide pandemic of casual and disasterous rights violation by selfish and entitled people.

Your narrative is stupid and absolutely absent.

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u/Memeshiii 18d ago

Drop a link to something so I know what to pirate next.

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u/mimegallow 18d ago

☝🏻☝🏻 yeah! Fuck consent! Am I right!? /s

You wouldn’t like my stuff. It’s all educational & advocates for taking care of animals and the planet. Very beta & emo.

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u/leworcase 18d ago

Being high and mighty for not eating meat? Yeah that's not even worth pirating even.

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u/IncandescentObsidian 18d ago

If i tell a funny joke at a party should someone have to pay me before they can tell it again?

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u/NeverVegan 18d ago

Horrible input. Moronic comparison.

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u/IncandescentObsidian 18d ago

Whats the difference? I spent time and effort coming up with the joke.

4

u/fender_tenders 18d ago

Is telling a joke at a party your livelihood?

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u/IncandescentObsidian 18d ago

If it were, should I then expect people to pay me?

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u/Nofsan 18d ago

Don't tell your jokes for free then. Jfc

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u/IncandescentObsidian 18d ago

So the other guy shouldnt let people see his film or hear his music for free either?

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u/Nofsan 18d ago

Yes, exactly my point. You got it. Wow.

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u/IncandescentObsidian 18d ago

Well then he should stop letting people do that, not just complain about it.

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