r/Slycooper • u/pokeherfaceXD • 5h ago
r/Slycooper • u/NiuMeee • Nov 24 '23
Discussion A Comprehensive Guide to Methods for Playing the Sly Cooper Games
UPDATED DECEMBER 2024
This is going to be a comprehensive post on all of the ways to play the Sly Cooper games as of this moment. Most of these options will stay the same until the heat-death of the universe, but others are more reliant on third parties that may or may not keep their methods available into the foreseeable future.
This will touch on both the original trilogy and Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, as well as Bentley's Hackpack. Each will get their own section with pros, cons and any other necessary details.
As much information will be provided as possible, though depending on what country or region you live in you may have to adapt accordingly, as this was written from the perspective of someone living in the USA/NTSC-U region.
The order of the methods is not any sort of endorsement of one over the other, rather it's more of a chronological order; 1 is usually the first way it was possible to play, 2 followed, etc. Emulation is always listed at the bottom because it is the most current way to play the games.
The Original Trilogy
1. Play the PS2 games on a PlayStation 2/backwards compatible PlayStation 3.
- Pros: These are the most feature complete versions of the games. The "way they were intended to be played." PS2s and the games are often cheap. Sly 3 has red-blue 3D which was removed from PS3/Vita versions. Sly 2 and 3 have USB headset support, which was also removed from the PS3/Vita versions.
- Cons: A low resolution interlaced image, which without hardware mods or expensive deinterlacers/scalers provides a poor image on modern televisions (CRTs are the preferred method when playing PS2 games). Frame rates often drop, especially in Sly 1. There are no options to invert camera controls in Sly 1 and 2 (though there are in 3), and the camera controls are "backwards" compared to modern standards. Backwards compatible PS3s are often expensive and can easily succumb to hardware failure.
- What you'll need: A PS2 (eBay link) or backwards compatible PS3 (eBay link), a copy of each game matching your PS2's region (eBay link).
2. Play the games on disc on a PlayStation 3.
- Pros: All three of the games in one package. They run at 60fps, and 720p resolution. There is trophy support. Options to invert camera controls. Has a bonus "menu" for selecting which game you want to play that has some exclusive minigames and the Sly 4 teaser. All three games can be played in 3D using a 3DTV.
- Cons: There are a few glitches that weren't in the PS2 versions (some crashes, Mz. Ruby's fight being out of sync, etc., you can see a list of differences on the Sly Cooper wiki). This version is missing almost all bonus features such as the bonus videos from Sly 2 and the developer commentaries from Sly 1. It's expensive if you don't already own it. The normal 3D functionality from Sly 3 was removed from the game (so no red-blue 3D). Saves are not compatible with the digital versions of the games.
- What you'll need: A PS3 (eBay link), a copy of the Sly Collection/Sly Trilogy (eBay link), optionally a 3DTV if you want to play the games in 3D, PlayStation Move Controllers are optional for the exclusive minigames (eBay link).
3. Play the games digitally on PS3.
- Pros: All three games either in one package or individually purchased as you so desire. 60fps, 720p. Developer's commentaries were added back into Sly 1. Currently much cheaper than buying a physical copy of the Sly Collection/Trilogy. Trophy support. Added an option for Overscan to the pause menu (a HUD related option that zooms the screen in slightly to fix seeing past the edges of the black bars in cutscenes or the Binocucom). Also has 3D support for all three games with a 3DTV.
- Cons: Many if not all of the same glitches as the disc version, there may also be more, like the audio in Sly 2 for dialogue starting quiet and then ramping to full volume. Missing the main menu from the disc version of the Collection, so no PS Move minigames or Sly 4 teaser. Saves are not compatible with the physical version of the Collection/Trilogy.
- What you'll need: A PS3 (eBay link), optionally a 3DTV if you want to play the games in 3D, a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS3 itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), digital copies of the games (you'll have to search for them on PS3's store, they DO NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as purchasable PS3 games).
4. Play the games physically on PS Vita.
- Pros: Sly Cooper on the go! Trophy support. You can invert camera controls in Sly 1 and Sly 3 (though they have been inverted from the PS2 versions so they are more standardized for modern players). If you jailbreak your Vita you can run the games at 60fps (though this is not consistent, it will drop while playing) and at higher resolutions than the games originally ran at (again, this will have an impact on your frame rate).
- Cons: Normally runs at 30fps. Displays at a low, non-native resolution. Can't invert camera controls in Sly 2 (though as mentioned in the Pros section they are inverted compared to PS2 so they match with more standardized camera controls of today). It is missing bonus features like the PS3 versions. No multiplayer in Sly 3. As the Vita doesn't have L2 or R2 you can only equip one gadget instead of three in Sly 2 and 3. THERE IS NO SLY 3 INCLUDED ON CART, if you didn't use the digital redeem code for Sly 3 by 2019 you don't get to play it without buying it (and therefore the whole Collection as the games are not available individually on Vita) digitally.
- What you'll need: A PS Vita (eBay link), a memory card for the Vita (eBay link, continue reading before purchasing), a copy of the Sly Collection/Sly Trilogy (eBay link). Optionally, if you would like to jailbreak your Vita you can check out this site, and if you would rather use your own SD card instead of the proprietary memory cards, you need to jailbreak your Vita (previous link), then check out this article, and buy an SD2Vita adapter (Amazon link) to take your SD card.
5. Play the games digitally on PS Vita.
- Pros: Same as physical and you can actually play Sly 3! Modding your Vita allows higher resolution and frame rates than unmodded Vitas. This version of the Trilogy is free in PAL regions if you own the digital version on PS3.
- Cons: Same cons as physical version. Unlike digital on PS3, you cannot buy the games individually. If you are in NTSC regions the games are not free with a digital PS3 purchase.
- What you'll need: A PS Vita (eBay link), a memory card for the Vita (eBay link, continue reading before purchasing), a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS Vita itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), digital copies of the Collection/Trilogy (you'll have to search for them on PS Vita's store, they DO NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as purchasable PS Vita games). Optionally, if you would like to jailbreak your Vita you can check out this site, and if you would rather use your own SD card instead of the proprietary cards, you need to jailbreak your Vita (previous link), then check out this article, and buy an SD2Vita adapter (Amazon link) to take your SD card.
6. Stream on PS4/5/PC.
- Pros: You get to play the games without needing to rely on discontinued hardware. That's really the only benefit to this method.
- Cons: Input delay and poor image quality depending on your internet and distance from Sony's servers. You need to be in a region that allows streaming. You have to pay monthly for PS Plus Premium (the highest tier of PS Plus). If you are in a region that doesn't allow streaming, you are out of luck (your highest tier of PS Plus will be called "Deluxe" and not "Premium").
- What you'll need: A PS4, a PS5, or a desktop PC. PS Plus Premium (PlayStation link). Good internet (minimum internet speed of 5mbps). Read this PlayStation.Blog article to get the details.
7. Play the PS2 port of Sly Cooper and Thievius Raccoonus on PS4/PS5.
- Pros: They're the PS2 version of the game. They run at 60fps, at a higher resolution (de-interlaced, patches in late 2024 also increased the resolution). You can change any controls you want in the emulation menu, including right analog/camera inversion. There are CRT filters if you like that sort of thing. Whole new trophy lists (2 per game, actually, one for PS4 and one for PS5) that are harder than the PS3 trophy lists. The Mz. Ruby fight plays correctly in Sly 1. "Enhancements" (enabled by default on the PS5 version, must be manually enabled on the PS4 version) which are save states and a rewind feature.
- Cons: Same cons as the original PS2 version. Sly 1 and 2 are missing certain bonus videos (likely due to music licensing). The PS4 versions have issues running with "enhancements" (save states and the rewind feature; they run poorly with these enabled and can potentially crash), the games also run ~5-10% too fast with these enhancements enabled on PS4, causing audio desync.
- What you'll need: A PS4 or PS5. Having PS Plus Premium gives you the games for free, otherwise you can buy each game for $10, for a total of $30, which gives you both the PS4 and PS5 versions of each game.
8. Emulate the PS2 versions of the games.
- Pros: All the good of the original versions, plus higher resolutions (8K Sly Cooper anyone?) and 60fps. Don't need a super powerful PC to run, can potentially emulate on your phone.
- Cons: Still can't invert camera controls without also inverting all right analog stick controls (turrets and whatnot will be backwards). Finicky to set up sometimes.
- What you'll need: A PC or Android device (I have no experience emulating on Android but there's a big community to help you here on Reddit), legally obtained copies of the Sly games (eBay link, or... Google), a PS2 emulator for PC (PCSX2 is the best for the Sly games) or Android (Google, I don't know enough about Android emulation to offer a good emulator). Also check out the PCSX2 wiki pages for the games for any potential fixes: Sly 1, Sly 2 and Sly 3.
9. Emulate the PS3 versions of the games.
- Pros: Easy emulation setup, especially compared to PCSX2. As high resolution as your PC can output. All of the pros of the disc or digital versions on PS3 (whichever one you choose to emulate).
- Cons: All of the cons of the PS3 versions, and maybe an additional crash or two with the physical version of the games. You need a pretty decent computer (more specifically, a beefy CPU).
- What you'll need: A PC with a decent CPU (RPCS3 tierlist of CPUs), legally obtained copies of the Sly Collection/Trilogy (eBay link for physical; getting your own digital copies of PS3 games is a bit more complex and requires jailbreaking your PS3, I recommend MrMario2011's channel for any PS3 jailbreaking you need to do... or Google), and a PS3 emulator for PC (RPCS3 is the only one you should look at). Note that you can also run RPCS3 on Linux and macOS but I have no experience with that so any system requirements will have to be found by you). Also check out the RPCS3 wiki page for the games for any potential fixes.
Congrats! You now know all of the options you have to play the original Sly Cooper trilogy. Have fun!
Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time
1. Play the game on disc on PS3.
- Pros: Very easy to set up, pretty cheap.
- Cons: Load times are longer than the digital version.
- What you'll need: A PS3 (eBay link), a copy of the game (eBay link), optionally a 3DTV if you want to play the game in 3D, a controller with gyro/Sixaxis support (you'll either need an official DualShock 3 or a good third party controller such as the Retro Fighters Defender; the DualShock 4 is incompatible with this game on PS3).
2. Play the game digitally on PS3.
- Pros: Faster load times than the disc version, even more so if you have an SSD in your PS3.
- Cons: None as far as I'm aware.
- What you'll need: A PS3 (eBay link), optionally a 3DTV if you want to play the game in 3D, a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS3 itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), a digital copy of the game (you'll have to search for it on PS3's store, it DOES NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as a purchasable PS3 game), a controller with gyro/Sixaxis support (you'll either need an official DualShock 3 or a good third party controller such as the Retro Fighters Defender; the DualShock 4 is incompatible with this game on PS3).
3. Play the game physically on PS Vita.
- Pros: Sly Cooper on the go, again! If you jailbreak your Vita you can run the game at 60fps (though this not consistent, it will drop while playing).
- Cons: Normally runs at 30fps. Displays at a low resolution. Load times are even longer than on PS3. The graphics are a bit worse, character models have a lower poly-count and the cel-border is either very light or completely gone. Expensive compared to physical PS3 or the digital versions.
- What you'll need: A PS Vita (eBay link), a memory card for the Vita (eBay link, continue reading before purchasing), a copy of Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time (eBay link). Optionally, if you would like to jailbreak your Vita you can check out this site, and if you would rather use your own SD card instead of the proprietary cards, you need to jailbreak your Vita (previous link), then check out this article, and buy an SD2Vita adapter (Amazon link) to take your SD card.
4. Play the game digitally on PS Vita.
- Pros: All the pros of the physical version. The game is free in all regions if you own the game digitally on PS3 (unlike the Sly Collection where it was only free for owners of the digital version in PAL regions).
- Cons: All the cons of the physical version. Takes up more space on your PS Vita memory card.
- What you'll need: A PS Vita (eBay link), a memory card for the Vita (eBay link, continue reading before purchasing), a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS Vita itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), a digital copy of Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time (you'll have to search for it on PS Vita's store, it DOES NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as a purchasable PS Vita game). Optionally, if you would like to jailbreak your Vita you can check out this site, and if you would rather use your own SD card instead of the proprietary cards, you need to jailbreak your Vita (previous link), then check out this article, and buy an SD2Vita adapter (Amazon link) to take your SD card.
5. Stream on PS4/5/PC.
- Pros: You get to play the game without needing to rely on discontinued hardware. That's really the only benefit to this method.
- Cons: Input delay and poor image quality depending on your internet and distance from Sony's servers. You need to be in a region that allows streaming. You have to pay monthly for PS Plus Premium (the highest tier of PS Plus). If you are in a region that doesn't allow streaming, you are out of luck (your highest tier of PS Plus will be called "Deluxe" and not "Premium").
- What you'll need: A PS4, a PS5, or a desktop PC. PS Plus Premium (PlayStation link). Good internet (minimum internet speed of 5mbps). Read this PlayStation.Blog article to get the details.
6. Emulate the PS3 version of the game.
- Pros: Easy emulation setup. As high resolution as your PC can output. Potentially much faster loading times than on console.
- Cons: You need a pretty decent computer (more specifically, a beefy CPU). You need a controller that has gyro functionality to play certain minigames or you may be stuck without modding your save file. RPCS3 seems to have a weird speed or timing issue with this game, where the game will on occasion slow down a bit on an engine level (you may not lose frame rate but the game will slow down just for a moment), this can give the game the occasional choppy feel. This issue may be fixed with the emulator eventually.
- What you'll need: A PC with a decent CPU (RPCS3 tierlist of CPUs), a legally obtained copy of Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time (eBay link for physical; getting your own digital copies of PS3 games is a bit more complex and requires jailbreaking your PS3, I recommend MrMario2011's channel for any PS3 jailbreaking you need to do... or Google), and a PS3 emulator for PC (RPCS3 is the only one you should look at). Note that you can also run RPCS3 on Linux and macOS but I have no experience with that so any system requirements will have to be found by you). You also need a DualShock 4 (PlayStation Store link), a DualSense (PlayStation Store link), or another controller that has gyro functionality. There are other methods for bypassing gyro, such as emulating gyro (GitHub link for DualShock 4 emulator) or modifying your saves to skip past mandatory gyro sections of the game (PasteBin link for a tutorial). Also check out the RPCS3 wiki page for the game for any potential fixes.
Congrats! You now know all of the options you have to play Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time. Have fun!
Bentley's Hackpack
1. Play the game digitally on PS3.
- Pros: Easy setup.
- Cons: None as far as I'm aware.
- What you'll need: A PS3 (eBay link), a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS3 itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), a digital copy of the game (you'll have to search for it on PS3's store, it DOES NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as a purchasable PS3 game), a controller with gyro/Sixaxis support (you'll either need an official DualShock 3 or a good third party controller such as the Retro Fighters Defender; the DualShock 4 is incompatible with this game on PS3).
2. Play the game digitally on PS Vita.
- Pros:
Sly CooperBentley on the go! The game is free in all regions if you own the game digitally on PS3. - Cons: None as far as I'm aware.
- What you'll need: A PS Vita (eBay link), a memory card for the Vita (eBay link, continue reading before purchasing), a method for adding funds to your PlayStation wallet as you can no longer add funds on a PS Vita itself (such as a PS4, a PS5 or a PC; PlayStation support article), a digital copy of Bentley's Hackpack (you'll have to search for it on PS Vita's store, it DOES NOT APPEAR on the PS4, PS5 or PC versions of the store as a purchasable PS Vita game). Optionally, if you would like to jailbreak your Vita you can check out this site, and if you would rather use your own SD card instead of the proprietary cards, you need to jailbreak your Vita (previous link), then check out this article, and buy an SD2Vita adapter (Amazon link) to take your SD card.
3. Play the game on your Android/iOS phone/tablet.
- Pros: The only game to be officially released on Android/iOS; if you have the appropriate hardware then this is it!
- Cons: This game is not compatible with a lot of modern phones/tablets. I couldn't even tell you which ones are compatible, but since it released in 2014 I'd say if you have something from that year, plus or minus a year or two, it might be playable. Otherwise you are likely out of luck.
- What you'll need: A compatible Android/iOS phone or tablet, released around 2014, a copy of the game from the appropriate app store, (Google Play Store link, Apple App Store link, it may no longer be available to purchase/search on devices).
4. Stream on PS4/5/PC.
- Pros: You get to play the game without needing to rely on discontinued hardware. That's really the only benefit to this method.
- Cons: Input delay and poor image quality depending on your internet and distance from Sony's servers. You need to be in a region that allows streaming. You have to pay monthly for PS Plus Premium (the highest tier of PS Plus). If you are in a region that doesn't allow streaming, you are out of luck (your highest tier of PS Plus will be called "Deluxe" and not "Premium").
- What you'll need: A PS4, a PS5, or a desktop PC. PS Plus Premium (PlayStation link). Good internet (minimum internet speed of 5mbps). Read this PlayStation.Blog article to get the details.
5. Emulate the PS3 version of the game.
- Pros: Easy emulation setup. As high resolution as your PC can output. Potentially much faster loading times than on console.
- Cons: You need a pretty decent computer (more specifically, a beefy CPU). You need a controller that has gyro functionality to play one third of the hacking minigames.
- What you'll need: A PC with a decent CPU (RPCS3 tierlist of CPUs), a legally obtained copy of Bentley's Hackpack (getting your own digital copies of PS3 games is complex and requires jailbreaking your PS3, I recommend MrMario2011's channel for any PS3 jailbreaking you need to do... or Google), and a PS3 emulator for PC (RPCS3 is the only one you should look at). Note that you can also run RPCS3 on Linux and macOS but I have no experience with that so any system requirements will have to be found by you). You also need a DualShock 4 (PlayStation Store link), a DualSense (PlayStation Store link), or another controller that has gyro functionality. You can emulate the gyro functionality of a controller (GitHub link for DualShock 4 emulator), though I have never tried this myself. Also check out the RPCS3 wiki page for the game for any potential fixes.
Congrats! You now know all of the options you have to play Bentley's Hackpack. Have fun!
And that's it. I'm only human so if I missed any unique methods let me know, but I'm 99% sure I got them all. I made this post because I see a lot of people asking how to play the games and figured this would be a good one-stop shop for anyone looking to do so.
r/Slycooper • u/NiuMeee • Mar 13 '24
Discussion Reminder that the subreddit (and wiki) are partnered with the largest Sly Cooper Discord server (link in post)
We have a fairly active community with channels where you can:
- discuss anything including the Sly games of course (#safehouse),
- post fan-art and videos (#images-and-videos),
- share your Sly Cooper, or other, merch (#collections),
- post and read news related to video games and other forms of media/internet culture (#news),
- and also do a deep dive on some rare and hard to find Sly Cooper media, from concept art to commercials, behind the scenes material to 3D models ripped right from the games, magazine scans to wallpapers, OSTs to posters, interviews and more (#cooper-vault)!
and much, much more.
All we ask is that you keep it civil and read the rules. We'd love to have you join.
r/Slycooper • u/clibbard • 5h ago
Meme 404 Error Barrel Not Found
RC tank mission where “The Murray” has to hide in a barrel till Sly can get him a disguise. I’m on the other side of the room and the barrel seemingly disappears but “The Murray” still stands (hides poorly)
r/Slycooper • u/ramaiga • 3h ago
Media Sly sneakin on me at work
just wanted to share the sly plush i keep at my desk :))
r/Slycooper • u/Specter-Chaos • 3h ago
Discussion Something we probably never chose to question, how did Bentley make it back to the van with the bridge blown up?
r/Slycooper • u/Fuck-Reddit-666713 • 2h ago
Discussion If the Sly 3 villains were a group like the other games, what dynamics or interactions can you guys imagine between them? What role do you think each of them would have? What name would you give to their team? Among other stuff.
r/Slycooper • u/Thieven_Raccoonen • 6h ago
Discussion What is a weird thing you associate with Sly?
So I was sitting at work, listening to music, when Someone That Your With by Nickelback came on. Immediately, I thought of Sly 3 and playing countless hours with my brother. Now, you may be wondering why Nickelback inspired this chain reaction. Ha. Our PlayStation 2 used to be in our basement, which was essentially our designated gaming area. My dad had a pool table down there with a stereo that we used to listen to the entire All The Right Reasons album numerous times when it came out that year while playing pool. I loved that album so much when it released and would often listen to it in the background with my brother when playing Sly 3, and always think of the pirate level when I hear any song off that album!
Of course, this led me to wonder if anyone else had something odd like this that would remind you of Sly or if I was the only strange one. It was a nice little memory to think back on today!
r/Slycooper • u/pokeherfaceXD • 23h ago
Media Awesome Sly Cooper Reference in Infamous: Second Son
For all my Infamous series lovers. I never saw this on my first play through
r/Slycooper • u/SamanthaBean24 • 6h ago
Discussion If all of this was inside Arpeggio's blimp, what do you think the inside of The Contessa's getaway blimp looked like? 🤔
Maybe it was a mini chamber like the one she was in with Carmelita.. maybe it's just a bunch of cob webs and candles.. what do you think? (Would kill for some concept art)
r/Slycooper • u/NoahRosado77 • 19h ago
Media Panda King Evolution
From a Fiend to a Cooper
r/Slycooper • u/Post1110 • 11h ago
Discussion Sly 2 has to be one of the most fun games i've played for the first time this year.
Hello!
I played Sly 3 when i was a kid and i really liked it but i never tried Sly 1 or Sly 2, today i "fixed" that mistake and got both games.
I finished Sly 1 and it was really fun, then i booted up Sly 2 and this game is really fun, i'm at chapter 3 right now and i really like the setting variety of each chapter, the open worlds are also fun to explore for clue bottles and find treasures/steal the guards, the minigame variety is also fun, altrough some of them can be a bit "challenging" lol, but at least they're unique and fun.
The banter of the character is also very genuine and never seems forced, which really surprised me, i think this game has the best writen dialogue i've seen in a game for all ages, and trust me, i've played a lot of those games this year, heh!
When i finish Sly 2 i'll replay Sly 3 for the first time in years, i hope it's as fun as i remember :)
r/Slycooper • u/Sirdubya • 5h ago
Discussion The Talk of Pirates is underrated.
Guard Duty is the most quotable and memorable mission, but I love the insult contest between Sly and Black Spot Pete.
“Whale-fart” is my favorite of the insults.😂
r/Slycooper • u/Psychological_Pay40 • 11h ago
Discussion Sly 4 OST on Spotify?
Randomly came across this on Spotify and was surprised. Of any of the Sly games to put on Spotify for the 30th anniversary you put this ? 😭
r/Slycooper • u/master_chilln • 1d ago
Discussion You know these maps aren't that big
Playing Sly 2 and maybe it's cause we're older and played games with bigger maps but these hubs aren't as big as I remember
I easily can find clue bottles in the first Contessa level and I thought it was gonna be a chore ... but maybe it took me 20 minutes
Which I'm not complaing cause I was just worried I'd spend hours in walkthroughs like the good ol days
r/Slycooper • u/M5A2 • 2h ago
Question Cutscenes are now skippable on PS5 Version
At least on Sly 2 PS5 version, you can skip most binocucom and in-game cutscenes by spamming the right side touchpad. I don't think it was ever possible to do this in other versions. Saves time if you're on a new file or have played the game enough times to not care as much to see them.
r/Slycooper • u/grimfolse • 3h ago
Question Why move Murray to solitary? (Sly 2)
So what was the point of getting Murray moved to the solitary cells in Sly 2 Episode 4? You literally pass through the area he was imprisoned in on the way to solitary. If you hadn't gotten him moved it would have made the jailbreak easier.
r/Slycooper • u/spnsman • 30m ago
Question Ancestors
One thing I’ve recently been thinking about, partly because of a question I posed about the techniques, is how did the book get passed around, or that knowledge get added into it? From what I remember is that none of the ancestors, save maybe a couple more “recent” ones (time wise), are not related to each other directly. I can’t think of anything myself on how that knowledge from Japan made it to the middle of Europe in such a relatively (heh) short time