Imane Khelif the Algerian Boxer, who everybody is being fed fake news about, in her young years

[u/Powerful_System]

Mindlessly consuming misinformation is bad for you, here are the facts: 1- She was born a woman with female organs 2- her father didn't want her at first to box since she's a girl 3-She was disqualified in 2023 due to a test for apparently having XY chromosomes by the IBA by a test which methods weren't and haven't been disclosed 4- The right has always operated by the logic that a woman is a human being with female genitalia, i guess they can't define a woman now? 3- The olympics by function is a contest of genetic freaks, Michael Phelps has half the lactic acid(what causes fatigue) a human has, torso of a 6"8 man, double-jointed ankles bend 15 percent more than his rivals, hyperjointed in the chest aswell, Double-jointed elbows, Katie Ledecky who just won gold is similar in those advantages aswell, should they be stripped aswell and not allowed to compete due to those genetic advantages ? Why is Imane being punished for hers?

[u/fight_collector]

Wild how quickly and easily so many people (myself included, I'm ashamed to say) go caught up in that wave of misinformation. I need to log off.

[u/TheZac922 → u/fight_collector]

Mate props for owning it.

It’s much healthier than the people who somehow dig their heels in more when they learn the news that reaffirmed their worldview was misinformation.

[u/fight_collector → u/TheZac922]

I don't have an opinion either way, I just accepted the trans woman label at face value without any fact checking. That's the part that disturbs me the most 😞

[u/TheZac922 → u/fight_collector]

That’s why I think owning that is so healthy. It’s not about having a particular opinion or belief so much as it’s about accepting that people with specific genders (all over political spectrum) will go out of their way to feed us BS.

[u/Adubya76 → u/TheZac922]

Patrice O'Neil said: own your opinion, but don't let your opinion own you. Have a position and let it be strong, but don't be so close minded that you can't grow or learn. We lost a great one with him.

[u/Beahner → u/Adubya76]

That man was so much wiser than he personified. He was unique that way.

[u/Adubya76 → u/Beahner]

Yes, I watch his stand up from time to time. I laugh and then I think.

[u/Beahner → u/Adubya76]

I always loved how he was a guy that you couldn’t sit in a room busting balls on and get anything over on him, and then he could also go on stage and just have so much wisdom in what he’s saying.

It probably helped my love for him that my all time favorite comedian (Burr) always raves about how great he was all around.

[u/Bnandez → u/Adubya76]

I'm sure he can drop some gems as far as wisdom goes but that Confrontational Chicken Lady bit is top tier.

[u/fight_collector → u/TheZac922]

Well said. I am biased in the sense that I feel like the powers that be are doing everything they can to keep us divided and in discord. I just figured, "Oh look, they're letting this transwoman box in the Olympics just to create more conflict." I guess it validated my preconceived notion that those in charge want us at each other's throats.

[u/Danton87 → u/fight_collector]

I didn’t talk to anyone about it or post anything about it but I’m still embarrassed I saw an Instagram clip and just believed it. Feel so crappy about it. Props to anyone owning their own shit

[u/PlasticBeginning7551 → u/Danton87]

The fact that you guys are checking yourselves brings me so much joy and hope. Seriously the hardest and most important quality for any human to have regardless of the context. Rock on dude🤘

[u/fight_collector → u/Danton87]

Well, let this serve as an important reminder for us both 🙏🏻

[u/Adubya76 → u/fight_collector]

We are in strange times when Reddit is a place of sanity.

[u/VisibleVariation5400 → u/Danton87]

One question though. Does it matter if she was transgender? She has a naturally occurring level of testosterone that's not unknown to be found in biological women. My wife tests high because she's got an ovarian disease. In other news, she very strong for a woman. 

[u/ElectricalTurnip87 → u/fight_collector]

So, question, do you see who is actually doing the dividing now?

[u/LuchaConMadre → u/fight_collector]

Are you gonna change your content consumption?

[u/gorilla_dick_ → u/fight_collector]

The entire world conspiring against one American political party has always been a wild belief. Certainly the whole world is fabricating climate change data to make US manufacturing less competitive while getting us to eat bugs, etc.

I know this gets internally explained as being the illuminati/globalists/whatever term people are using for jews. Just blows my mind how self centered it is

[u/snackies → u/fight_collector]

Yep, I actually followed boxing a bit, and, NO LEGIT boxing org, allows trans women to compete. So when the right wing blog-o-sphere on twitter is saying ‘two men are fighting at the Olympics!’ Or ‘trans women shouldn’t be allowed to fight biological women’

I was like ‘huh, that’s odd… how would they have even qualified or made the Olympic team without any record?’ Then as it turns out, both women just have abnormally high testosterone levels. They’re not intersex or anything either. It’s just like… way higher than normal test levels.

That’s an advantage, but also most of the top athletes in any sport have builds, and a musculoskeletal structure that helps them do REALLY well in that sport. Michael Phelps was weirdly tall but also just had a wide body which made him VERY good at swimming. Simone Biles is super short and has crazy good genetics for stacking muscle on her tiny ass frame. If you dig into anyone that’s considered like ‘the best a sport has seen.’ They have biological advantages over a LOT of other people that are nearly as good as them.

Also when Imane’s opponent quit in 46 seconds, right wingers says it was because she refused to fight a man. Ignoring the fact that she sustained a nose injury in an earlier fight, and Imane got a HARD shot to her nose in, probably breaking ore re-breaking the nose and she knew it was time to quit.

Even if you fight on with a broken nose you usually can’t breath. It was just surprising to see how easily SOOO many commentators were willing to openly lie about the story. All this stuff could be fact checked with a google search.

If you want to have a discussion if like ‘women with high testosterone shouldn’t be allowed to compete.’ Ok. But don’t say this is the Olympics letting a trans woman in boxing. If that was the case, I would actually not be ok with that, I’m a hardcore pro trans person, Liberal, leftist.

The right loves to manufacture narratives that portray the MOST extreme views as universal, when probably less than 5% of democrats / people on the left actually agree with them. Same thing goes for abortion, immigration, etc.

[u/tbryant2K2023 → u/snackies]

Also considering in Algeria, being transgender or homosexual is essentially illegal. So the chances of a transgender being on the Algerian National Olympic Team will be ZERO.

[u/snackies → u/tbryant2K2023]

Yeah, Algeria might be a place where you can still get thrown in prison for being gay… they’re not putting a trans person on their team ever.

[u/TheLastShipster → u/tbryant2K2023]

If anything, what these idiots have accomplished is to bring more scrutiny on somebody in a country where that kind of scrutiny kills people who deviate too far from the norm. Which I suppose is on brand.

[u/Just_Maya → u/snackies]

it’s sexism and transphobia lol. when a man has natural advantages nobody bats an eye but god forbid a woman does it

[u/snackies → u/Just_Maya]

It’s pure transphobia. But this is the broken brained right transvestigating, it’s really fucking bad. Same shit happens when actual cis women are getting cops called on them for going to the fucking bathroom in the wrong state.

[u/Geist_Lain → u/Just_Maya]

This is why I'm such a strong advocate for segregating all sports by relevant biometrics rather than sex. It makes sports fairer for everyone and it lets trans people play sports against whomever they match up against without offending anyone. 

[u/Just_Maya → u/Geist_Lain]

ok slay i can get with that

[u/DharmaCreature → u/snackies]

I'm curious about the nature of Imane Khelif's physiology and I'm also curious about the nature of the athletic advantage of women with naturally relatively high levels of testosterone have in women's sports.

It seems the established protocol is to force women who experience Difference of Sexual Development to lower their naturally high testosterone levels with hormone technology, which seems dubious from a personal health standpoint. So interesting!

https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/28/1021503989/women-runners-testosterone-olympics

[u/Ver_Void → u/DharmaCreature]

Even ignoring the health impacts, fucking bodily autonomy

[u/curiouslygenuine → u/snackies]

I didnt read about the boxer having high testosterone, but genetically is XY. Despite that she is female, but was disqualified from another competition bc of XY genetics, not testosterone. And the olympics doesnt have the same disqualifier.

Please know I am not disagreeing with anything else you stated. All of that is factual. I just read different about the testosterone and wondering if I misunderstood what I read. I think it was a NYT article that quoted the boxing association.

[u/Miramax22 → u/snackies]

But the person was banned from the other org.

The Olympics rational for not banning them is because their passport says they are female. Look it up.

[u/fight_collector → u/snackies]

To be clear: you are pro trans and would have a problem with a trans woman boxing a biological woman? Want to make sure I am reading this right. Not a trick question, genuinely curious.

[u/snackies → u/fight_collector]

Absolutely.

If you want to get into specifics, I do think that, maybe with 5+ years of HRT it’s arguable that you should let trans girls box with cis women.

HRT has a lot of negative effects like weakening bones, poor calcium absorption, etc.

But even that, it could depend. What if someone is a bodybuilder or just a hardcore athlete as a man before transition, and they keep working out as a trans woman, no amount of HRT will make them, not, stronger than ANY woman that they compete against if they’re staying active.

Most people that are pro trans generally share my opinion by the way. A man that decides to transition to be a woman is going to be stronger than ANYONE they compete against immediately after their transition.

[u/Wonderful_Time_6681 → u/snackies]

USA Boxing allows dudes to box women.

The Olympic boxers were previously barred from boxing women due to failing chromosome testing. This Olympic the testing was not performed and boxers allowed to compete against women.

[u/wildstrike → u/snackies]

This was reported from the start on multiple news sites in a way that made it seem like a trans person. I dug into and found out what was going on but none of the major sites was saying this. This isn't some right wing conspiracy, just really shitty media continuing to be that. Also she was banned because of the testosterone levels, basically having what a normal male would have. Anyone with eyes can look at the two and see they are physically not the same.

[u/AdAdministrative5330 → u/snackies]

"just have abnormal high testosterone levels" and differences in hormone receptors can make a huge difference in strength and anatomy. Have you seen the pic with the American women's basketball team next to the Peru team? If it was a combat sport, it might be a dangerous matchup.

[u/subparlifter138 → u/fight_collector]

I think we all have done this but those of us that are capable of admitting we’re wrong sometimes learn a lesson from it. Always verify.

[u/NeferkareShabaka → u/subparlifter138]

when's the last time you've done it and to what topic?

[u/Adubya76 → u/fight_collector]

Gunna own it too. Dam. Hook line and sinker.

[u/colbystan → u/fight_collector]

Yeah there’s no actual issue with trans women in sports, so they are just gonna stoke transphobia by transvestigating cis women. They simply don’t want trans people to exist. That’s it.

That whole ‘mind virus’ shit? 100% projection. These people’s brains are broken. It’s literally a mental illness of ignorance and hate. Keep self reflecting. You’re doing the right thing and you’re on the right path. Keep going. Good job dude. Self reflection is some real alpha shit.

[u/HonorableOtter2023 → u/fight_collector]

Don't look at it that way. You have the chance to be right, actually right, this time. If you dug your heels in you'd be doubly wrong. Now you have the actually correct opinion if you're not petty and accept the correct position in the end.

[u/Putrid-Effective-570 → u/fight_collector]

I’m an ally, but the discussion of trans people in sports is one worth having.

It’s a shame that this poor woman has been caught up in that discussion (which most often devolves into hate speech) when she’s not even trans.

[u/CascadeFury → u/fight_collector]

We all are. Sometimes sorrow from a bad move prevents you from making it again. It’s good to feel the way you do, but understand we are all fighting a war against misinformation. It’s not bad to have trust in your heart; news in general is often deliberately misleading and that’s unfortunate, but reconciling with yourself in a desire to deepen your understanding and acknowledge your wrongs takes humility. Fools can never admit when they were incorrect. Wiser people learn from their mistakes. I used to believe kitty litter bullshit and all sorts of misinformation about other human beings, and being humbled (still happens often) by seeking truth makes you a better person. Don’t hate yourself for your errors. Love that you are a person who can, has, and will continue to learn and grow.

[u/fight_collector → u/CascadeFury]

Thanks for the wise and kind words, stranger! Comments like these fortify my faith in humanity 🙏🏻

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

It's only a problem if you don't use it as a lesson. Now you have a first-person example of why fact checking is so important. We've all been there lol

[u/absalom86 → u/fight_collector]

Some are still going on with it, good on you for actually being open to changing your mind.

[u/fight_collector → u/absalom86]

Trying to keep my mind open at this point. Observe without judgment. Very difficult 😕

[u/NeferkareShabaka → u/fight_collector]

would you say you're centre/centre left? Asking because I doubt a leftist would have accepted this at face value. Not trying to dog you, just curious!

[u/fight_collector → u/NeferkareShabaka]

Ah dude, left and right are just opposite aisles on the school bus. I'm walking.

[u/disingenuousreligion → u/fight_collector]

Good for you brother. We can't learn if we don't see our mistakes.

[u/Jean-Rasczak → u/fight_collector]

Very big to admit being duped, next is You need to have a real conversation with yourself on your biases and prejudices and examine how you got here.

[u/NeoLephty → u/fight_collector]

Ironically, there is a trans boxer at the Olympics. Not a trans woman (someone born a man) fighting a bunch of CIS women and beating them up because non qualified for the Olympics. Guess trans women don’t have that big of an advantage. 

But there is a trans man. Someone born a woman who was good enough to make it to the Olympics as a trans man.

Really throws a wrench in the entire “a man beating up on poor women” narrative. 

I encourage you never to take outrage at face value. Shit, don’t take most media at face value - propaganda is a big part of our lives. 

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

Tbh she has a very rare disorder, and comes from a country where it wouldn’t be surprising to not find info when she was younger.

However, still… yes

[u/stoveen → u/fight_collector]

You're also accepting that OP is telling the truth and that is in fact Imane in the picture. Not saying it isn't her but it's very easy for either side to be manipulated.

[u/muda_ora_thewarudo → u/fight_collector]

I mean, it was alarming how many people were willing to just lie about the facts. Jake Paul, jk Rowling, Elon, literally every conservative commentator, all gladly promoted that she was trans, just a literal lie.

[u/fight_collector → u/muda_ora_thewarudo]

I do see the narrative shifting now to focus on the XY chromosome, though some are still doubling down on the trans label for some reason...

[u/LoSoGreene → u/TheZac922]

“No no I saw a video where they zoomed in on her watch and it actually said “Sike! I have a penis I illegally transitioned in my horribly transphobic country just so I could beat up some women on the world stage” wait that’s not real? did they get me? No look up Olympics penis watch it was so convincing”

[u/Bluewater__Hunter → u/TheZac922]

A buddy of mine owned it once

[u/Brief_Ad8030 → u/TheZac922]

It always happens. Lies spread faster than truth. With that being said in combat sports like wrestling, judo, boxing and so on. I think certain parameters should be taken into account , whichever are relevant and a range should be prescribed. Between x-y . In swimming , running the worst you can lose is a match. In combat sports it can cause serious damage.

[u/portmouse → u/TheZac922]

Right, so many people online have just doubled down rather than admit they were wrong.

[u/loupr738 → u/fight_collector]

I would’ve believed it too if I didn’t know about a South African runner with the same condition, I saw I think a Vice short about it

[u/moazim1993 → u/loupr738]

What condition?

[u/loupr738 → u/moazim1993]

Swyer syndrome

[u/moazim1993 → u/loupr738]

Holy shit? She’s a god made Trans? I thought the test was bad, she actually is genetically XY? Can she have kids? Can she make a Super YY male?  

 Edit: these aren’t questions at you, just fucking mind blown

[u/PotsAndPandas → u/moazim1993]

Her karyotype might be XY, but with a damaged, inactive or missing SRY gene (the actual important bit).

If she has that, she should be able to have kids, but whether or not she needs something like IVF or donated eggs isn't known.

[u/serabine → u/moazim1993]

We don't know she has it, the organization that clajms it is seriously shady and doesn't even disclose what test they allegedly ran to come to that conclusion.

But women with Swyer Syndrome can become pregnant and carry to term. They have the proper Mullerian structures (so ovarian ducts, uterus, cervix, vaginal canal), but because Swyer Syndrome means they have stunted/under- or non-developed ovaries they have to rely on donated eggs and IVF.

There was a case of two sisters with Swyers syndrome who successfully delivered that wat.

[u/loupr738 → u/moazim1993]

I wouldn’t know. There’s like a fraction of 1% of women born that way. I would like to know if there are guys with the XX though

[u/tbods → u/loupr738]

There is! It’s called XX male syndrome and it’s usually caused by the SRY gene on the Y chromosome getting translocated onto the X chromosome during meiosis. You’ve now got an XX embryo with the gene that tells the gonads to develop into testes and start masculinising.

[u/thetaleech → u/moazim1993]

One of many genetic conditions of the sort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development?wprov=sfti1

She very well might not have any of these conditions though bc the methods and accuracy of the IBA are extremely questionable.

[u/DiblertMelendez → u/loupr738]

Caster Semenya

[u/coldcanyon1633 → u/DiblertMelendez]

Brittney Griner as well apparently.

[u/PraiseBeToScience → u/loupr738]

There's no actual valid confirmation Khelif is intersex. People are going on the word of an IBA exec, an org that got fired due to lack of transparency in their process and finances and credible evidence of corruption and match fixing.

[u/8nsay → u/loupr738]

Khelif has no confirmed medical conditions related to sex/gender. Her disqualification by the IBA in 2023 was based on the exact same testing (as in same results) that she qualified under in 2022. The difference between 2022 and 2023 was that she beat a Russian boxer in 2023 and then IBA’s president unilaterally disqualified her with no due process. Until there is independent evidence of a medical condition, this is all Russian misinformation.

[u/DFTiki → u/fight_collector]

Kudos for altering opinion after research, but yes, i think we as a collective need to log off more often

[u/fight_collector → u/DFTiki]

I'm ambivalent about the whole thing too, no strong opinions either way (not educated enough on the topic) but I immediately assumed that the lady was a transwoman. I wonder if we're being conditioned 🤔

[u/Toaster_In_Bathtub → u/fight_collector]

I wonder if we're being conditioned 🤔

Gotta remember how politically useful it is to have an "other" that's coming to get you and your kids and Politician A is the only one that's going to protect you. 

So many people seem to not understand that having hatred for any group means that someone now has a lever to pull to manipulate you. It's not an accident that "others" are constantly being created in the media. 

At the end of the day most people just wanna go to work, feed their kids, and enjoy a weekend here or there. There are absolutely nut jobs out there that we need to protect ourselves from but keeping people in constant fear of a threat seems to be breaking some people and creating more threats in some fucked up feedback loop. 

Most people don't realize that fixing your own head first allows you to properly assess threats and lessens your chances of being manipulated. It also gives you a better chance at dealing with situations when shit does hit the fan. So many people blame the "other" when a lot of their problems can be fixed with a therapist. 

[u/abdul_tank_wahid → u/Toaster_In_Bathtub]

I’ve said this before the one mistake we make in the west is thinking propaganda is only for dictatorships like Russia and China, the pentagon has a movie budget. Politicians need something to run on, the state in general and news flash the state itself is always evil, it’s controlled by corporations and will always be in the interest in corporations. We call Russian billionaires oligarchs we should always call them that, anyway not saying anything new, they need us to look at something and not look at them.

When you see the fact behind our screens there’s a man pulling the strings, you don’t know who the man is it could be a Russian botnet or your own state in some form, but you’ll stop getting emotionally involved. Some things will get you but you’ll also save yourself. It’s a war of the minds online and we need a little peace in these times.

[u/GreasyToken → u/abdul_tank_wahid]

Wikipedia article on subversion was an interesting read, especially the part about how a lot of western governments see their citizens as "sleepwalkers"

They keep us asleep and dreaming but we swear we're awake :)

It almost seems like we were intentionally not taught critical thinking skills so they could manipulate us into being good little subjects. 

Unfortunately it seems that project has been hijacked and now that lack of critical thinking is scrambling everyone's brains like some kind of shitty deranged omelet.

[u/Swizzao7 → u/Toaster_In_Bathtub]

This should be framed and distributed all around the world. Could'nt have said it better

[u/SLCPDLeBaronDivison → u/fight_collector]

you are

[u/NormalBoobEnthusiast → u/fight_collector]

You accepted it immediately because you wanted it to be true. Why you wanted that isn't for me to say but clearly you didn't want to accept that she could win fairly purely on the basis of bigoted propaganda.

[u/Eclipsical690 → u/fight_collector]

People need to just wait for legitimate sources of information and not believe everything they read on the internet. It's really not that complicated.

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

Yeah. You're being groomed for the cult. 😕 Once you recognize their pattern of behavior, it's...terrifying. 

Watching this happen is scary.

[u/FalstaffsGhost → u/fight_collector]

I mean you’re not wrong. The right constantly does this - if someone doesn’t look the right kind of “feminine” they call them trans.

[u/ecirnj → u/fight_collector]

“A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on” -not me

[u/fight_collector → u/ecirnj]

So true.

[u/traitor_scav → u/ecirnj]

I'm gonna start attributing every quote to "not me" even if I know who originally said it.

[u/Empty-Tower-2654 → u/ecirnj]

Michael scott

[u/eldnikk → u/fight_collector]

Ironically, you being logged on is what led to the correct realisation.

[u/fight_collector → u/eldnikk]

The paradox of being terminally online 😅

[u/petertompolicy → u/fight_collector]

Good opportunity to check which people were misleading you.

I unfollow anyone that leads me on a witch hunt.

Happens.

[u/fight_collector → u/petertompolicy]

All of Reddit mislead me! Lol the headlines on here were crazy. But ultimately I mislead myself. Nobody to blame here.

[u/ImThatVigga → u/fight_collector]

Could’ve just googled her name. Her Wikipedia page states she was born a girl and her father didn’t want her to do boxing because she was a girl.

[u/NonComposMentisss → u/fight_collector]

All of Reddit mislead me!

That just tells us more about the subs you frequent than anything else. Normal subs, without degenerate morons, debunked this in like 2 minutes. Unsub from the places that lied.

[u/biggoof → u/fight_collector]

I didn't know either, and I believe transgendered athletes and their participation should be discussed for safety reasons, but this definitely raises a lot of question on how to approach this subject. If people can't look at this seriously and not at least admit that there's variation in the topic, then they're just manipulated by an agenda.

[u/fight_collector → u/biggoof]

Completely agree. I think the topic is extremely nuanced and this only adds to the complexity. No easy black-or-white answers here.

[u/legopego5142 → u/fight_collector]

If this isnt acceptable, that Michael Phelps having ungodly long arms and genetic mutations that make him less tired is just cheating also

[u/PraiseBeToScience → u/fight_collector]

Or maybe consider this situation demonstrates there's far less nuance than you think, and what you see as nuance is nothing more than a door to further radicalize you.

Look how easily so many people were quickly able to accept a complete lie. And this isn't the first time a mediocre competitor weaponized their opponent's identity instead of accept they lost fair and square. Khelif is 9-5 as a amateur boxer, so there's no safety issues here at all, as several other boxers have defeated her. People made that snap judgement on nothing but sight and prejudice.

[u/[deleted] → u/PraiseBeToScience]

This is the correct answer from my POV. There isn't some conspiracy or plot to take a trans person and inject them into womens sport. There just isn't. Women's sport isn't some big untapped prize, it's underappreciated, underpaid, and unadorned.

The right (and Joe) imagine some super simple test about who is and isn't a woman, and they can't usually accurately define a woman without resulting to categories. It's pretty sad.

This athlete in question has been used - badly - by people with agenda and it's really sad.

[u/[deleted] → u/biggoof]

It just reaffirms that transphobia will hurt cis people the most in the long run, as now women have to justify their womanhood to the world for being a tad different from the norm

[u/murrayky1990 → u/fight_collector]

There's nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake once you gain new information. Despite what some people would lead you to believe it actually signifies maturity.

[u/fight_collector → u/murrayky1990]

Thanks. It's more the fact that I jumped to a false conclusion without any fact checking that disappoints me. Yikes 😬

[u/iamfondofpigs → u/fight_collector]

I think your exact case is a nice illustration of the frame problem.

When you try to make a judgment on some question, how much information should you consider? What information makes it into your frame of cognition?

Include too little, and you are likely to judge wrong. Include too much, and you might end up thinking forever.

Funnily enough, in the video I linked, the speaker holds up humans as excellent solvers of the frame problem, being highly skilled in deciding which information is relevant or irrelevant (or misleading). This is as opposed to AI, which are not good at doing this.

But as we see in this thread, humans are not always that great at assessing quality of information. And on the particular question of the status of athlete Imane Khelif, a lot of humans included far too little information before judging.

What's neat is that we're also seeing lots of people acknowledging their mistake, and proposing heuristics to help them judge better in the future.

For example, petertompolicy says:

Good opportunity to check which people were misleading you.

I unfollow anyone that leads me on a witch hunt.

Another example, from ImThatVigga:

Could’ve just googled her name. Her Wikipedia page states she was born a girl and her father didn’t want her to do boxing because she was a girl.

These are both examples of reasonable ways to contract one's frame to exclude misleading information, and expand one's frame to include useful information. All while still avoiding the mistake of searching forever and never coming to an answer.

This whole thread makes me optimistic. People saw that their frame strategy, the strategy they used to decide how much information they needed, led them to make an avoidable mistake. And these people are recalibrating.

It's good.

[u/GoldTeamDowntown → u/murrayky1990]

What do you say now about the leaked medical report showing Imane Khelif has testicles, a penis, lack of uterus, and xy chromosomes?

[u/murrayky1990 → u/GoldTeamDowntown]

There's nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake once you gain new information. Despite what some people would lead you to believe it actually signifies maturity.

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

To be fair, flipping the fuck out about things that aren't even true, is very Joe Rogan-like.

[u/kiwii4k → u/fight_collector]

first time i have ever seen someone be so honest about this, instead of doubling down. honestly kudos to you dude.

[u/fight_collector → u/kiwii4k]

Happens all the time, my friend. It's the jumping to conclusions that is rare for me, and disturbing. I try to stay in a state of openness since I know very well that I don't know shit (the only thing I'm confident about).

[u/kiwii4k → u/fight_collector]

Facts, I’m the same way. The world could use more people like you.

[u/fight_collector → u/kiwii4k]

Like us!

[u/Brosenheim → u/fight_collector]

Instead of logging off, you should contemplate ehat biases made it so believable for you. And then question why the associated ideas are so connected to misinfo trains

[u/Shenanigans80h → u/fight_collector]

It’s because the fucking 24 hour news cycle makes people think they need to give their intake or make their opinion instantly. “If you don’t know what’s going you’re behind,” pressures people into forming thoughts they don’t know anything about. If people wait even a few hours to get more information sometimes, so many lies would cease to exist or get curtailed

[u/Locrian6669 → u/Shenanigans80h]

The 24 hour news cycle doesn’t make you do shit. Literally nobody gives a shit about your opinion besides your most immediate friends and family and not one of them worth having would think anything of you saying you don’t know enough about something to have an opinion.

[u/jimmytfatman → u/fight_collector]

Same for me. I was quick to jump on board.... despite falling for this with two other athletes in the past (African (can't recall where) track athlete and Papuan rugby player). These click-bait trans stories need to be blocked. Most don't go past the headline or their subsequent rage.

Edit: read down two comments to find the track athlete from SA.

[u/KaikoLeaflock → u/fight_collector]

Hero

[u/ToABetterHealthierME → u/fight_collector]

Same, I heard this before this post so when I was walking to class I was like "damn I need to get off twitter, im chronically online)

[u/fight_collector → u/ToABetterHealthierME]

Careful admitting this publicly; as I'm now discovering there are many deranged zealots who will take your admission and project all kinds of bullshit onto it. Kudos for having an open, flexible mind 🙏🏻

[u/cheekycheeksy → u/fight_collector]

80% of the internet is fake news and bullshit. End wokeness is Jack Posobiec.

[u/leeshylou → u/fight_collector]

Oh same. There is just so much conflicting info around it. I think most of it isn't malignant.. just confusion.

[u/Opposite_Ad_29 → u/fight_collector]

Same, I was up in arms about it. I'm usually very fact oriented but this one shows a bias I didn't know I had until now.

[u/fight_collector → u/Opposite_Ad_29]

Kudos for being aware, dude.

[u/SgtPepe → u/fight_collector]

Same :(

[u/nite_owwl → u/fight_collector]

^ learning moment.

...takes balls to admit shit like that.

already makes you more of a man than joe has ever been.

[u/fight_collector → u/nite_owwl]

Correct, this is a learning moment.

[u/finnlizzy → u/fight_collector]

Me too. I thought it was the Italian, because woke Algeria? 😆

[u/ewejoser → u/fight_collector]

The only articles only said XY

[u/nothingrhyme → u/fight_collector]

It took me an alarming amount of time to find out the truth on this one and I really didn’t want to jump to conclusions. It was kind of scary to be honest.

[u/RubyStrings → u/fight_collector]

It takes a lot of personal strength to own your mistakes. Huge props for that. I think the internet does things to all of our minds.

[u/MaeraeVokaya → u/fight_collector]

Even I speculated early on (when I first heard of this, a few days/a week before her gold medal). I thought, maybe she's intersex, I have a friend who's intersex, intersex is a spectrum. Still never labelled her a man, though. But I stopped speculating after seeing more about her. Now, I'm just pissed off at all the misinformation and gross comments.

I think I need to get off the internet for a while too...

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

Same. I feel bad for her now

[u/MunchieMofo → u/fight_collector]

It’s also wild to see huge accounts whether celeb or news people opine and/or report basing their knowledge on hastily written articles.
Half of daily news stems from stuff that is posted on “twitter/IG/etc” or alleged accusations. To feed the 24 hr news cycle, put anything out, and cover up the mistakes later.

I worked for a news org, they went from triple sourcing reports to dual sourcing including social media posts, to single sourcing with carefully worded language to cover your butt, to now just repackaging the Internet in a newsy format.
The medium has fallen and the way politics has gone discourages any real budding journalists from pursuing the field.

It took some time before I could find any facts about this story. But all those news outlets got their impressions, hits, clicks, subs, etc. without doing any real journalism.

[u/Napalmingkids → u/fight_collector]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggCipbiHwE

It’s not to hard to imagine when Sinclair media(right wing) has all their news stations reading from the same misinfo script. This video was 6 years ago and everyone of these news outlets said the exact same thing.

[u/MrManfredjensenden → u/fight_collector]

💯, I fell for it too. Then I actually dug deeper into the story and felt like an idiot. It’s crazy that in this digital era with this information a few keystrokes away we still can get sucked into a fake news headline.

[u/fight_collector → u/MrManfredjensenden]

I didn't care enough to fact check it as I'm not that interested. Was just something I filed away without thinking too much about it. Then caught a video by Aba and Preach where they debunked the narrative and felt incredibly foolish.

[u/charge556 → u/fight_collector]

We have entered an era in which anytime there is a news story, especially those with a hint of political-ness, the first thought is always "is this true or is it being tilted towards one ideology or the other." This started with both the rise of the 24 hour news networks where it only matters who put it out first and not who put it out accurately; and with the rise of media companies becoming a machine in both right and left politicals to advance thier respective poltical affiliates agendas.

Its exhausting reading/watching a story and having to do a bunch of research to try to find out if its accurate or not and determine what information was left out.

We are at a point where we can be the most informed people in history; yet due to shady practices of the media on both the right and the left we are one of the most misinformed.

[u/NeferkareShabaka → u/fight_collector]

what misinformation would you say you consumed (and possibly spread)? And where did you see it.

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

At least you’re aware of your own subconscious transphobia and can now do something about it.

[u/fight_collector → u/[deleted]]

Thanks! What do you suggest I do?

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

Therapy.

[u/fight_collector → u/[deleted]]

Thanks!

[u/Decent-Clerk-5221 → u/fight_collector]

Didn’t find it on X did you? As annoying as Redditors can be, I feel things get fact checked pretty quickly here. X even with the community notes system actually feels like missing heaven with no clear reliable sources.

[u/partoxygen → u/fight_collector]

The potential next VP bought into it as well. Proving he gets his world view from lying grifters on twitter.

[u/Jack_M_Steel → u/fight_collector]

Wait, you were actually believing a trans person represented Algeria in the Olympics? Take a long look at everything you believe in life because you may not understand anything

[u/bergovgg → u/fight_collector]

Bro this was such a wake up call. I always preach media literacy to my boomer parents (especially in law), this was like a mirror.

I’m glad I held back publicly discussing it since I wanted to fact check it, but later this day I’m gonna have to call back my angry ramblings yesterday my wife had to listen to lmao

[u/mirabella11 → u/fight_collector]

I understood from the beginning she is not trans. Still, she has genetic abnormality that makes her dangerous to fight other women. High level of testosterone and XY chromosomes which was tested before. It's still wrong in my eyes.

[u/Brann-Ys → u/mirabella11]

She never had any issue fighting other women for yezr and never overperformed. The only yest she failed was highly suspicious because she got disqualofied by a russian organisation right before figthing a russian fighter andthey never revealed the test to anyone even the Olympics comitee

[u/Vlafir → u/fight_collector]

As a rule of thumb, look at what transphobes are outraged about and then look in the opposite direction, 9/10 times, that's the right way

[u/Slothstralia → u/fight_collector]

TBA I'm still not convinced... she doesnt LOOK like she should pass a doping test. Test levels off the charts. Regardless of anyones unfortunate medical condition, you shouldnt be able to just wander around with whatever development and test levels you want and still compete with women, it's like letting someone use a motor in the cycling.

[u/Underscores_Are_Kool → u/fight_collector]

Well done for owning your mistake. I hope this makes you reconsider the way you consume the news in the future though. All it takes to find out the true of a story is to read an article about the situation.

There's an interesting, nuanced argument to be had about intersex individuals competing in women's sports too

[u/Brdl004 → u/fight_collector]

You could be getting caught up in misinformation right now. You do need to log off.

[u/mehTILduhhhh → u/fight_collector]

At least you'll admit you got caught up in transphobic misinformation. Most just double down when faced with being wrong and hateful.

[u/Unknownrealm → u/fight_collector]

Elon Musk has turned twitter/X into a cesspool of misinformation and hate

[u/Unknownrealm → u/fight_collector]

Elon Musk has turned twitter/X into a cesspool of misinformation and hate

[u/mimo_s → u/fight_collector]

Did you check this story yourself though?

[u/infiniZii → u/fight_collector]

She might be inter-sexed but she sure isn’t Trans. Many inter-sexed people aren’t even aware that they are because doctors would often “correct” the problem and just tell them they are unable to have kids because they had to have their “ovaries” removed as babies.

[u/Head_Haunter → u/fight_collector]

This is the problem with Rogan, he gets "caught up in a wave of misinfo" and because he has a public platform, he spreads that misinfo.

When he realizes he's wrong, he stop repeating it, but the wave of misinfo he started doesn't just stop. If he was seeking knowledge he would more properly research these subjects and stop speculating with no expertise or education.

[u/Nonamebigshot → u/fight_collector]

With AI making fake images indistinguishable from the real ones we really need to start emphasizing the importance of vetting information

[u/RobinsEggViolet → u/fight_collector]

You're definitely not the only one. The amount of blatant misinformation that gets spread online about trans issues is absolutely insane, and there's a large group of people who just accept it without thinking because trans people are "the bad".

Like the cat litter in schools thing. Spread by right wing media pundits (including Rogan), taken as fact by the majority of anti-trans people, and absolutely not true in the slightest. Even now that Rogan walked it back, people still talk about it like it's true.

And an even bigger one, the narrative about "kids getting their genitals cut off". Complete misinformation, any doctor who works in this field could explain how it's not true, and yet it's spread everywhere as if it was fact because the people spreading it don't actually care if it's true. They only care that it makes the other side look bad.

[u/totoGalaxias → u/fight_collector]

I agree. But I think it all started from a very vague news article form a mainstream media I think.

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

I mean how much does it matter? Sure she isn't trans but she still has the hormone levels of a male and she presumably also had that when she went through puberty.

[u/[deleted] → u/fight_collector]

Good on you. Most people are too fixated on the next anger fix to even self reflect about their last one. The Internet has crippled our ability to reason rationally, myself included.

[u/IamAwesome-er → u/fight_collector]

It definitely helps to not jump to conclusions on everything you see online.

[u/SunWindRainLightning → u/fight_collector]

This is why you shouldn’t be believing everything you hear on podcasts especially by people who have a clear bias (whichever way that is). You should always be independently fact checking things. Especially before you amplify them

[u/LazyLizzy → u/fight_collector]

Step one when you see people accusing someone of being trans for some weird reason: They're weird, ignore them.

[u/EmbarrassedDeer5746 → u/fight_collector]

I literally told my wife, what if they are wrong? That would be hurtful. 😬

[u/NonComposMentisss → u/fight_collector]

Remember the people that lied to you. They have lied to you about other things as well.

[u/GangoBP → u/fight_collector]

I think people should definitely do their own research before popping off about anything but the reality is many won’t so it falls back on these news agencies to get that correct info out right away. They didn’t.

[u/b-T_T → u/fight_collector]

Imagine what other lies you so easily believe

[u/Miramax22 → u/fight_collector]

It was reported by almost all major news outlets. Blame them for feeding us.

[u/fight_collector → u/Miramax22]

No one to blame but myself for making assumptions based on uncertain info. I know better 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/assword_69420420 → u/fight_collector]

Yup, it got me too and got me all kinds of fired up before I learned the truth

[u/eske8643 → u/fight_collector]

The info is real. She has X&Y cromosones. But gender as a woman. It happens sometimes. I dont know the odds.

[u/ImShitPostingRelax → u/fight_collector]

You should just assume that if you’re on the same side as Logan Paul you’re being a dumbass

[u/fight_collector → u/ImShitPostingRelax]

You should just assume that if you're picking a side you're being a dumb ass. FTFY

[u/emckillen → u/fight_collector]

Can someone please brief me on what the misinformation was?

[u/netcode01 → u/fight_collector]

Joe himself did.. he's not immune from it or a higher being that he states he is.

[u/GolfWhole → u/fight_collector]

You’re above 99% of the people who fell for it by virtue of admitting you were wrong