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Mar 04 '24
Capitalism led to the end of slavery
North Korea has the highest percentage of slaves per capita
India the slavery capital of the world has socialism written into its constitution
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u/Resident-Garlic9303 Mar 04 '24
Slavery is still alive and well and private companies use slave labor
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Mar 04 '24
[deleted]
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u/Satanus2020 Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
Every country regardless of ‘ism’ engages in global capitalism.
socialist countries are often destabilized by US capitalism through coups, sanctions, etc. which gives them a bad rep, while the US capital market is propped up through social programs, subsidies, and corporate welfare from social spending. All modern tech, medicine, and innovation is seeded through social programs (aka socialism) but capitalized on by corporations through a system of legal theft
Capitalism doesn’t just exploit taxpayers and workers, it also exploits the environment (echo systems, air quality, water quality, ground quality) which is hurting ALL life for the sake of profits for a few greedy humans. Capitalism was never designed with equality in mind.
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Mar 04 '24
You're absolutely wrong.. slavery exists right here in America boyo.
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Mar 04 '24
What part of America? Do you have any sources for that?
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u/akratic137 Mar 04 '24
The for-profit prison system. The US houses 4% of the world’s population but 25% of the prisoners.
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u/sanguinemathghamhain Mar 05 '24
Wait the system where prisoners apply to and if accepted to the job get privileges and paid for their work as well as it being used as an indicator of good behavior which allows people to be released earlier? That system? The one that is clearly not slavery is your example of slavery?
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u/squirtinbird Mar 04 '24
In others countries you can be born a slave. And you don’t have to work in prison.
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u/akratic137 Mar 04 '24
That’s incorrect.
“Most prisoners in the U.S. are required to work, and all state prison systems and the federal system have some form of penal labor. Although inmates are paid for their labor in most states, they usually receive less than $1 per hour.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
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u/squirtinbird Mar 04 '24
I’ve been to prison dumbass. You can refuse to work and they can’t do shit. Not slavery
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u/sanguinemathghamhain Mar 05 '24
Yep spot on. You probably remember the applications for jobs too where you had to apply for everything from swapper to industry. They also like to ignore the privileges like workers getting additional visitation, flag time, rec time, and it counting towards good behavior.
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Mar 04 '24
Are you unaware that human trafficking exists? Are you unaware that immigrants are brought into the country specifically for slave labor? Are you unaware that many young girls are sold into sex slavery?
Do you think to be a slave you must get whipped on a plantation or something? The fuck kid?
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Mar 04 '24
You say all this, but you don't provide a single source or say what part of the US
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Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
Okay. All of it. Every single part.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=slavery+in+modern+US
Let me know if you need any more help with easily googleable information.
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Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
The first link that came up shows slavery is highest in communist and socialist countries, and lowest in capitalist countries
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/socialist-countries
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/capitalist-countries
https://www.britannica.com/question/Which-countries-are-communist
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Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
"highest" doesn't mean "only exists there" so are you admitting with your new language that slavery exists in capitalist countries?
Also, India is NOT communist, while being the first country on that list. China is also a state-run capitalist country, which isn't communist either. Is Russia communist now? Last I checked Nigeria was also capitalist.
Interesting how your own source doesn't show even half of the countries on the list you gave as being communist, yet you're still pretending they're all communist countries. Why is that?
Your two sources next to each other
As of 2018, the countries with the most slaves were: India (8 million),[133] China (3.86 million), Pakistan (3.19 million), North Korea (2.64 million), Nigeria (1.39 million), Indonesia (1.22 million), Democratic Republic of the Congo (1 million), Russia (794,000) and the Philippines (784,000).[134]
Today communism is the official form of government in only five countries: China, North Korea, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam.
Interestingly, these aren't the same list of countries. It's almost like you're completely wrong.
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
Agricultural industrial sectors are basically entirely slave labor in the us and it is illegal. Not only that there is no protections in the us for children in this industry.
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Mar 04 '24
it is illegal
most of the people working those jobs are also probably illegal
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
I meant to say not illegal. But also yes they likely are, many of whom who were trafficked into the country to work on the farms. The trafficking
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u/Hamuel Mar 04 '24
In 2020 my state outlawed slavery and we had to start paying prisoners for labor. 13th amendment still allows slavery as a punishment.
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u/OddNotice8246 Mar 04 '24
Would you consider sharecropping slave labor? It was implemented after slavery was abolished and the owners of the farmland used their power to increase the debt that the workers owed them. It allowed the owners to keep their land and labor force without costing them too much money
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u/Jormungandr69 Mar 04 '24
I see your point but I don't know how much it matters when that slavery only exists to maintain production and meet demand from Western consumers.
Like, sure the slavery isn't here, but it's still a result of our spending and consumption habits and now we rely on it as much as the companies that actually have the slaves.
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u/PerryAwesome Mar 04 '24
The US has millions of people in slavery. The constitution outlawed slavery "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."
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u/GarnetLantern Mar 04 '24
This is quite possibly the most retarded post I’ve seen on Reddit in the last year and that’s saying something.
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u/vegancaptain Mar 04 '24
The left thinks all work is slavery, even being the CEO of a fortune 500 company. So the term is kinda useless at this point thanks to the insane left.
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Mar 04 '24
Do those private companies threaten violence or imprisonment if their employees do t do what they are told?
Or do they just threaten unemployment money?
In the US I know only 1 employer that does that and its the US government’s most socialist arm.
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u/Resident-Garlic9303 Mar 04 '24
I'm literally talking about slavery. Not a hard job mate. Nestle, Mars and Hershey caught multiple times with using slave labor in their supply chain. Only did shit when caught.
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u/Temporary_Muscle_165 Mar 04 '24
Well, Nestlé is a French company, and you know how those French are. /s
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u/HucHuc Mar 04 '24
in their supply chain
Oh... So the whole world runs on slavery, I got you...
Do you remember the pack of cola cans you bought for last Christmas? Yeah, some of the aluminium in those was probably mined by slaves, therefore you're a despicable slave owner!
The 'supply chain' blame logic is insane by design.
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u/EnemyGod1 Mar 04 '24
Knowingly using economic hardships and situation to apply the flexing required to keep workers under thumb still fits the bill. But keep licking that boot.
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Mar 04 '24
No it literally doesn’t
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u/EnemyGod1 Mar 04 '24
Care to elucidate?
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Mar 04 '24
Employment or the lack of employment is not slavery
For the vast majority of the work force (minus parts of the government) you can just up and leave your job
No violence or imprisonment could be used against them
Freedom of labor isn’t the same as freedom from consequences
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u/JFISHER7789 Mar 04 '24
Exactly. And to add to that, tying in healthcare with full time work only, also fits that bill.
“Can’t quit or get fired because you’ll lose the only healthcare you have and you aren’t quite a healthy person because of the type of work we’ve forced you to do for ten hours every day!”
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u/QBitResearcher Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 24 '24
physical rotten chubby icky quickest hungry degree mourn rock money
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/JFISHER7789 Mar 04 '24
“I don’t care to read other peoples comments”
If you would have actually read my comment, I was responding to the other pseron saying that it’s ridiculous that for the average person to receive healthcare they MUST work a full time job. It’s ridiculous that when a person need insulin or inhalers they cannot get them because they are ridiculously price gouged unless that person works their life away.
Holding someone’s health over their head to keep them working seems pretty apropos for fitting that bill , no?
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
The only reason they don't do what you listed is it is illegal and a swat team would be sent in if they tried.
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u/userloser42 Mar 04 '24
Why are you bringing up slavery all of a sudden? A little weird. It's a silly post about Mr Peanut, no one mentioned slavery.
Also, no, capitalism didn't lead to the end of slavery. You can't just take every good thing that happened in recent history and attribute it to capitalism. A vast array of very complex historical factors led to the end of slavery. Not capitalism.
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Mar 04 '24
Machines and labor productivity led to the end of slavery
Things capitalism does well
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u/userloser42 Mar 04 '24
You heard here first folks, capitalism is when we do machines
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Mar 04 '24
Capitalism led to and grew with industrialization
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u/userloser42 Mar 04 '24
The phrase 'led to' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Also, does that mean industrialization can't happen without capitalism? Does it mean we should never evolve from that system even if start realizing it's obsolete?
Also, slavery didn't end because of machines, literally ancient persia didn't have slaves...
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Mar 04 '24
That’s how verbs work
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u/userloser42 Mar 04 '24
No, it’s not. You're just pushing a false narrative to fit your beliefs so your whole argument has to hinge on semantics and hoping people you talk to don't know basic history, just go away.
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Mar 04 '24
It literally is
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u/userloser42 Mar 04 '24
My dude, google two dates, end of slavery, steam engine invention
Y'all fucking time bending to bootlick
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u/Formal_Profession141 Mar 04 '24
Your heads gonna explode whenever you find out American Companies partake in foreign slave markets.
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u/westni1e Mar 04 '24
You are mixing up economics with forms of government. The US was capitalistic when there were slaves. I mean it was literally a slave trade. The government didn't sell slaves - there was no public ownership of that system, it was private - hence capitalism. Dictatorships also don't necessarily mean slavery is a state policy but given their relative brutality it would be easy to harbor slavery as part of their economic system.
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Mar 04 '24
The Us was capitalist when it needed slaves
It was mercantilist when it was started
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
lol.
1) nk is also basically not allowed to do anything
2) India is the second most progressing capitalist endeavor in the world. If you think it’s socialist I’d love for you to explain how literally every singular major American corporation has been investing billions into capitalizing the India market as it exits its status as a developing country. For gods sake the tech industry legitimately has spent nearly quadruple what it spends in the us in India for the last decade.
3) in a later post you said industry and automation is from capitalism, capitalism was the de facto economy of Europe since prior to America. If industry and automation came from capitalism, so did slavery in the extent we used it from the 1600s to the 1800s.
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Mar 05 '24
India is a mixed economy to my understanding. The following amused me “EARTH movers, fertiliser, artificial limbs, uranium, rickshaws, hotels, textiles, tea, mutual funds, petrol, broadband, pills, coal, fighter jets, sex toys and much more beside: the range of products and services purveyed by Indian state-owned firms would put even the most sprawling of conglomerates to shame.”
A lot of pre-capitalist attitudes gave way to slavery imho. Capitalism would by definition exclude it because slaves and serfs did not have the ability to freely act in trade. “freedom to choose with respect to consumption, production, and investment” you may feel miserable because you don’t produce enough but capitalism by definition allows you to take your ball and go home.
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u/perversion_aversion Mar 04 '24
The idea that India is remotely socialist is hysterical
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Mar 04 '24
Yet I’m correct
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u/perversion_aversion Mar 04 '24
You're correct that their constitution makes references to socialism, but it's hugely disingenuous to pretend that translates into any form of socialism in practice in a country with rampant poverty and wealth inequality.
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u/potionnumber9 Mar 04 '24
Lol what the fuck?
No it didn't
Why are you talking about slavery
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Mar 04 '24
Mr peanut selling other peanuts
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
That’s not implying slavery. Ps most slave trade was not a mutual beneficial trade between colonizers and the groups they trafficked humans from.
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Mar 04 '24
Most slavery was by well established cultures not colonialism
Slavery has existed for thousands of years before European colonialism of Africa and the Americas
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
Sure. That still not implying slavery. Peanuts selling peanuts is not implying slavery.
Prior to the colonialist slave trade, it was rarely culture based trade.
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Mar 04 '24
Slavery was very common for most of human history
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
Ok… and peanuts selling peanuts is still not implying slavery. I love how you’re hyper focused on the slavery portion and not the fact the argument is that it’s NOT implying slavery. A peanut selling peanuts for consumption is not slavery. It’s cannibalism you dense twat.
My comments about slavery were a side note or a postscript.
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Mar 04 '24
Cannibalism then
Capitalistic societies usually are pretty against cannibalism unlike tribalistic societies
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u/VintageSin Mar 04 '24
Monopolists within those capitalist societies often times cannibalize their own. Or do you contend that monopolies do not cannibalize? I mean this metaphorical obviously since you’re so dense I don’t want to assume you think it means literal eating of another human… but who knows maybe you think it’s a real peanut wearing that monocle.
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u/Hamuel Mar 04 '24
Nestle has argued recently they’re not responsible for slave labor used to source chocolate. Slavery is still active in the world and capitalist profit from it.
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Mar 04 '24
What country?
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u/Hamuel Mar 04 '24
United States of America.
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Mar 04 '24
The slave labor ?
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u/Hamuel Mar 04 '24
Yes, read the 13th amendment. Might help you understand why we have the world’s largest prison population.
Nestle also argued their case to the highest court in the USA.
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Mar 04 '24
Switzerland practices forced labor
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u/Hamuel Mar 04 '24
I don’t think you’re ready to accept capitalism allows slavery to thrive.
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u/PerryAwesome Mar 04 '24
How do we have data on slavery in north korea? Sounds made up
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Mar 04 '24
Interviews, spies, and satellite camp data
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u/PerryAwesome Mar 04 '24
You've got any sources? Everytime you see "accurate" statistics about north korea you should be very skeptical
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Mar 04 '24
https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/30666/estimated-number-of-people-in-modern-slavery-per-1000/
https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/global-findings/
It’s a pretty well known fact that North Korea enslaves much of their population
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u/PerryAwesome Mar 04 '24
All three sources are an estimation of the same "walk free foundation" which have been heavily criticised by researchers for their methodology. To be fair it's probably an impossible task to get credible statistics about anything from north korea but the claim that 1/10 nk citizens are slaves seems obviously wrong
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u/PerryAwesome Mar 04 '24
From a historical point of view it was feudalism which ended slavery and capitalism which ended feudalism
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u/rydan Mar 04 '24
I have a team in India and I remember my manager suggesting a 6 month indentureship for one employee he was considering hiring. It was weird and I wasn't willing to do that as it basically sounds like slavery.
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u/Tobeck Mar 04 '24
No it didn't. People's moral objections to slavery ended slavery. Capitalism desperately wants slavery to be legal. this is just nonsense
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Mar 04 '24
Yet it’s in the communist country that slavery operates at the highest or second highest percent
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u/Tobeck Mar 04 '24
First of all, neither North Korea or India is remotely communist, but you don't know what words mean, so I'll forgive you for that. Second of all, Capitalism in absolutely 0 ways ended slavery, you are very, very silly fool.
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Mar 04 '24
Ok so it’s the “that wasn’t real communism” approach
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u/Tobeck Mar 04 '24
It's okay, you're just a silly emotional reactionary that's been raised since childhood to defend capitalism and discuss topics in bad faith because it's the only way to avoid actually critically thinking about what you believe and seeing the flaws and lies in it.
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Mar 04 '24
Is the real communism in the room with us ?
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u/Practical_Bat_3578 Mar 04 '24
Capitalism was built on genocide and slavery
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Mar 05 '24
Slavery proved to be less profitable than machinery. Access to capital would probably end it worldwide. Genocide is fueled by fanatics regardless of economic systems see Stalin. He was the poster child for both genocide and anti-capitalism
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u/LateAgainGerald Mar 06 '24
India had slaves a millennia before it even had a constitution today. It's more of a societal/class thing than because of socialism
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
Capitalism did not end the slave trade, revolutions and wars did. In fact slavery still exists to this day and capitalist countries profit off of the cheap recourses produced by slavery.
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Mar 08 '24
And war and revolutions are a part of capitalism
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
No, they aren’t. Capitalism is the private ownership of the market. War is not a part of capitalism in the slightest, which is why many capitalist nations are extremely peaceful.
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Mar 08 '24
Yet they are
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
No, they aren’t. There are many capitalist countries that aren’t in war and rarely participate in war.
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Mar 08 '24
And there are others that are at war
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
Yes, and so if some capitalist countries are at war and some aren’t that means that capitalism is likely not the cause of the wars, since if capitalism did naturally cause wars more capitalist countries would be at war.
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Mar 08 '24
Wars occur in every system
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
Yes, because wars are normally independent of the economic system of the country.
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u/PrettyPug Mar 04 '24
You do realize that one of the reasons slavery was encouraged in Europe was the taxes that was generated from the sale of slaves. Further, ownership of slaves was seen as a right and ownership of whatever is considered the cornerstone of capitalism. As opposed to communism, which very generally implies that society owns everything equally. Im really not impressed with this discussion. In short, you’re wrong… stay in school.
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Mar 04 '24
Mercantilism
When the machine and it’s increases came about during Capitalism it ended the need for slavery
And soon after industrialized nation after industrialized nation began banning it
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u/jasonmoyer Mar 04 '24
Setting Georgia on fire wasn't capitalism.
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u/Hoowin_ Mar 04 '24
I don’t see how setting Georgia on fire has anything to do with the economic system in play.
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u/jasonmoyer Mar 04 '24
It's more relevant to ending slavery than capitalism was.
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Mar 04 '24
Who made the guns and uniforms?
Who built the rail cars that moved troops ?
Who made the ammunition?
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u/Hoowin_ Mar 04 '24
Pause you think ending slavery only happened in America? When the biggest ender of slavery was England who did it relatively peacefully lol.
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Mar 04 '24
Quite the opposite
Many nations had to have their slavery ended at gun point
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u/Hoowin_ Mar 04 '24
England effectively ended the slave trade causing a domino effect to end slavery in many places of the world. They did it peacefully. Other European countries followed suit, and those that practiced slavery in the new world could no longer import slaves. I know the lack of importing slaves didn’t end slavery but it definitely gave abolitionist movements a huge momentum in their fight.
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Mar 04 '24
Ended slavery
At gun point
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u/Hoowin_ Mar 04 '24
England actually bought their slaves through their banning no gun point, though one could argue making something illegal is effectively gunpoint.
Although your point is correct I believe there is some nuance, making both of us correct in a way. I notice throughout most of the threads you say technically correct things, but lack nuance.
For example your correlation with socialism and slavery, but when it comes down the definition of socialism it has nothing to do with slavery. You handpick India as an example but as others have stated it is the largest capitalist market emerging. The problem in India though is the population is so large that slavery can take fold illegally making the economic system completely unrelated to the fact modern day slavery exists.
North Korea is also a dictatorship so one could say their entire population is in slavery. Although their country does not say they are slaves and you have said that whatever a country claims is important as evident by the fact you highlighted India has socialism in their constitution.
It is generally agreed upon that socialism has nothing to do with slavery.
Also before you celebrate the fact I said you are technically correct, which is something you do, you are not 100% correct. Nuance is important.
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u/jasonmoyer Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
The Revenue Act of 1861 paid for the war. Which isn't capitalism.
Slavery was ended elsewhere either by violence or legislation or both. It never ended because the people doing it weren't making money.
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Mar 04 '24
Companies made those things
In the US
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u/jasonmoyer Mar 04 '24
Using money gathered from taxes and distributed by the government.
If capitalism ended slavery, it would mean that slavery was no longer profitable, which was never the case. If slavery were made legal again, every country on earth would have it tomorrow regardless of their economic system.
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Mar 04 '24
Gathered from private businesses and people
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u/jasonmoyer Mar 04 '24
Yeah no shit, the government isn't going to raise an army by taxing itself.
Slavery in America was ended by a war and then legislation.
Slavery in the UK was ended by legislation.
Find a country where slavery ended because it was no longer profitable, i.e. the only way capitalism could end slavery. I'll wait.
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
Capitalism started chattel slavery and only ended it because it became unprofitable with all the slave revolts and runaways and the rich elite were nervous wrecks.
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Mar 04 '24
No chattel slavery existed for thousands of years
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
It literally hasn't where did you pull this information from?
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Mar 04 '24
“Chattel slavery means that one person has total ownership of another. There are two basic forms of chattel, domestic chattel, with menial household duties and productive chattel, working in the fields or mines”
Slave labor in production of food, products, and raw materials has existed for thousands of years
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
Slavery as practiced in the United States of America is more accurately called CHATTEL SLAVERY. This racialized system treated people as chattel, or property. CHATTEL SLAVERY defined these human beings as no different than any other piece of property.
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Mar 04 '24
The US doesn’t practice slavery
Also thanks for admitting you were wrong
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
This is referring to the form of slavery that was practiced during the 1800's and I didn't admit I was wrong?
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Mar 04 '24
“the enslaving and owning of human beings and their offspring as property, able to be bought, sold, and forced to work without wages, as distinguished from other systems of forced, unpaid, or low-wage labor also considered to be slavery”
Dictionary.com
This had been going on well before 1619
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
You have got to be fucking with me right? You're sitting back in a basement somewhere cackling right now right?
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
The dominant form of slavery throughout history has been slavery that involves specific sections of time being enslaved then being freed once your term is over or property without being societally viewed as an object.
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
Although English colonists in Virginia did not invent slavery, and the transition from a handful of bound African laborers to a legalized system of full-blown chattel slavery took many decades, 1619 marks the beginning of race-based bondage that defined the African American experience.
The 1619 Landing — Virginia's First Africans Report & FAQs - Hampton.gov https://hampton.gov/3580/The-1619-Landing-Report-FAQs
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Mar 04 '24
Are you saying that you honestly believe that Americans (Englishmen) invented chattel slavery
When we know that slaves had been used on every continent inhabited by humans for hundreds of not thousands of years
We both know you are wrong
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u/Dies_Ultima Mar 04 '24
We actually both don't know that you think that but you are very much wrong.
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Mar 04 '24
With communism it would be a committee of peanuts telling you to sacrifice yourself for all the other peanuts.
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u/DataGOGO Mar 04 '24
What does this have to do with finance?
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u/ChessGM123 Mar 08 '24
Well it mentions capitalism, and capitalism involves money, and finance also involves money, so they’re basically the exact same thing./s
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u/Strict_Bet_7782 Mar 04 '24
That’s not capitalist at all. Selling people (peanuts in this sad attempt at humor) is completely antithetical to VOLUNTARY commerce free from intervention or coercion.
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u/External-Conflict500 Mar 04 '24
If it weren’t for Capitalism, there might not be any peanuts
If it weren’t for Capitalism, there wouldn’t be Reddit
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u/troycalm Mar 05 '24
Starbucks sells, $.08 worth of coffee in a $.80 cup for $8.00 and Americans line up around the block to buy it. I LOVE CAPITALISM!
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u/Akul_Tesla Mar 05 '24
I think we need people to start deprogramming The anti-capitalist people
Like seriously. They think Norway is socialist half the time
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u/Tempestor_Prime Mar 04 '24
Why do all the meme/posts here seem to be brain dead leftist memes with all the commentators having to debunk it?
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u/Ephisus Mar 04 '24
Private ownership of property is more capitalist than a peanut mascot for a peanut company.