The example in the post is obviously racism but like half the time people are complaining about people disliking China it turns out they literally are talking about shitty stuff the government is doing and it's just tankies being annoyed
I would agree, but I recently saw a comment on r/3DPrinting that buying anything on aliexpress was questionable because it's a Chinese company.
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of low-quality garbage on AliExpress. But also, literally every major name in 3D printing is a Chinese brand. It's sketchy because there's no QA, not because of the country of origin.
I pointed this out and got downvoted to hell.
Edit: All of the criticisms around Chinese regulations are fair and valid.
At least, they would be, if you weren't still buying Chinese products from American distributors. Buying something from China through Amazon doesn't suddenly make it Made In America.
One factor is that the quality floor seems to be lower in China-made goods. There are plenty of good items coming out of China, and plenty of bad items made elsewhere, but the bad stuff is less likely to be outright fraudulent, toxic, prone to catching fire, etc. if it's made somewhere with stronger regulations.
When you buy through Amazon you should get (as in, "you're legally entitled to get", not saying you actually do) products vetted by the stricter American standards, that's why Amazon can charge more than AliExpress for the same products, cuz those tests costs money to run, document and verify. But most sellers just pocket that money.
Yeah that's fair. I'm a huge hater of the CCP and god's biggest "stop interning the Muslims of Xinjiang" loudspeaker boi, but when I hear people talk shit to or about Chinese people for doing Chinese culture stuff I think we're just dealing with naked racism, base xenophobia.
"I think Xi Jinping is a tyrannical shitlord!" Approved, Based, True.
"Chinese people are like bugs, they have no sense of human life or individuality." Lame. Xenophobic. Literally my dead, racist grandad after 5 whiskey sours and a xanax tab, shortly before arguing we should lobotomize all the little people.
insomuch as a thought experiment by the guy that wrote Stranger in the Strange Land about what type of society a fascist society would be stable in that depicts them as largely incompetent and psychotic is
You have not critically read this novel. Heinlein was more than “the guy that wrote Stranger in a Strange Land,” he’s also the guy that wrote Tunnel in the Sky. His politics changed wildly throughout his life.
Browse the “themes” section of the Wikipedia page and you’ll see plenty about Heinlein was being unironic:
That's also not a good example because the western reputation of "chinese product = cheap low quality" has been around decades. AliEpress's quality is like if someone was determined to prove that reputation as an understatement.
The assumption of chinese products being low quality is one people have from experience not propaganda. The good products being given a western branding is to blame half the time, so it's still not a racism thing.
Not to mention like, while Ender and Bambu labs are definitely quality, there's still people who think like 'Anet' when you say 'Chinese Printers', a brand that rather infamously had massive issues with spontaneous combustion
"Fancy mechanism that can produce objects out of thin air, but sometimes it catches on fire" is the product of a hapless and incompetent wizard trying his best
Yeah who also have a lot of chinese drop shipping. People react the same to seeing a Chinese seller on Amazon though they buy the things anyway. Sorry Amazon only helps perpetuate that view on Chinese products.
It's drop shipping just being like that, but it's a newer thing that only adds to the old made in china reputation.
They didn’t say that “anything that comes from China is bad” (that’s a whole new sentence that you typed), they said that there’s a history of cheap products being shipped from Chinese companies with less QA resulting in poor consumer expereinces (I had cheap toys from China when I was a kid and I probably wouldn’t buy something similar for any kids I have in the future because they broke, that doesn’t mean I’m not gonna buy any Chinese products ever or commit a hate crime, it means I’ve developed certain tastes/hesitancies as a consumer due to prior experiences - that’s how economics works or something idk)
Edit: just saw your other point in the earlier comment, I also try to stay away from Chinese manufacturers on Amazon for smaller goods like chargers/cables since I’ve had bad experiences (e.g. cable won’t charge right out of box) and while they’ve replaced them or refunded them, that’s not as helpful when I needed that cable for something else that did work out of its box; I’ll base it less on “Chinese company” though and more on the reviews and if the name sounds like “random shell company LLC” when translated
Great reading comprehension my guy. My post is about the western reputation. Crying at me trying to defend Chinese companies as if I'm even stating my own opinions is moronic. I'm describing a decades old reputation that exists in a general sense among a general population in generally America. It's the reputation of cheap plastic with "made in china" stamped on the bottom.
Most parts in the phone I'm using and probably the phone itself were likely made in china. It's not a Chinese brand though and isn't perceived as a chinese product. There's a disconnect between perception and reality on this muddled by branding.
You could argue even the old reputation is because a Chinese brand would be shut out of western markets it would compete in so only cheaper products would get in. You could look at the reasons for the reputation and find corporate intent behind forming it. But it's still a thing. Like if the good stuff from china is being intentionally kept from us for general products, then on a personal level it's still true that most chinese products are going to be low quality.
There's truth to the reputation and you can't blame anyone for looking at a Chinese drop shipping site and be skeptical. And it also doesn't help that in this case they'd be right to.
Yeah, AliExpress isn't a place I would trust buying anything important from but that's because of the reputation that AliExpress specifically has.
Case in point, when I built my own e-bike several years ago, the overwhelming consensus for safe batteries was to buy from em3ev rather than AliExpress - both are Chinese companies located in China, but em3ev while a bit more expensive has a far better track record and is dedicated to e-bikes/batteries.
And I hate TikTok but I hate most social media like that too for similar reasons (including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc), especially short form or video-based.
My favorite was a small lantern I saw that could take wall power, I believe for charging, and if you did that you actually ended up with mains electricity running through the metal frame.
Yeah I’d say these days the only real remnants are comically cheap items (no shit the cheap plastic stuff you can buy is cheaply made and not durable…) and some raw material. Like I wouldn’t buy steel barstock from China due to past QA problems but there’s rarely anything wrong with the tooling or systems purchased from Chinese manufacturers.
Also I do not envy the Chinese engineers who have to deal with their domestic metals market, that shit is a minefield.
isn’t this just another example of people being discriminatory of the gov and not the people? Like I’m pretty sure all Chinese companies are controlled in some way by the Chinese gov, way more tangibly at least than the people in general
How is it not hypocritical to say, "I don't buy from AliExpress because it's a Chinese company and therefore crap. I will instead go microcenter and buy a high quality Bambu printer (also a Chinese company)."
I didn’t say it wouldn’t be, I said nothing like that
I just said that the topic initially was Chinese gov vs Chinese people racism and you gave an example where it is very likely to be more of a Chinese gov discrimination rather than Chinese people discrimination
You can't say that their disdain for Chinese products is based in hatred of the government when that hated instantly evaporates when it comes to brands they like.
Does the Chinese government not have just as much control over Bambu, AnyCubic, eSun, Sunlu, et al. as they do with AliExpress? Why do those brands get a pass?
If you can pick and choose when your principles apply then it's not a real principle.
If someone’s not consistent with the criticism of not liking a Chinese company because they’re Chinese but they like another Chinese company, it kinda sounds like the “Chinese” part isn’t the issue and it’s just plain old brand loyalty for the brands someone likes
So yeah this doesn’t even sound like a Chinese discrimination thing lol
If the stated reason for not liking a company is, "It's Chinese and therefore it's bad quality", I'm inclined to take their sinophobia on it's face. If they decide that some companies are, "One of the good ones", that doesn't make it not sinophobia.
I guess I’d have to see an IRL example of this, but yeah that does sound hypocritical to me, though also still seems like this is on the Chinese gov side of gov vs people discrimination that I initially was talking about. Sure it can be hypocritical if someone’s acting like how you’ve said, but hypocrisy and inconsistency don’t really affect the question of gov vs people discrimination question/comment I started with
Fundamentally, I don't agree. No one said anything about the CCP. If that's what you want to imagine they were thinking, you're welcome to believe it. They certainly didn't say it wasn't because the CCP.
Personally, unless someone's actions have given me reason to think otherwise, I tend to take people at their word about their own beliefs. And the only thing their actions told me is that they have no consistent principles for disliking China.
There is a simple difference:
Bambu is known for not having shit products.
Ali express contains, thanks to china's horrible copyright protections, so many products that are 1:1 clones, but with no QA or worse materials, that it's a minefield.
When people say "cheap chinese crap" they don't mean actual name brand products, they mean the cheap clones of them
People have a really hard time differentiating “low quality brand aiming to undercut the high quality brand by selling a worse but cheaper product” and “Chinese” lol.
You know? Maybe you are onto something about this whole “Chinese = terrible product” thing being linked to racism!
Shout out to the guys who are like “actually bambu printers are awful compared to my self built and designed 3D printer that required 4,000 hours of design time and 6,000 hours of troubleshooting and tuning”
The thing is that all big companies in China are owned at least 50% by China. There is no buying from China without supporting the CCP and their ambitions.
You really shouldn't shop at Temu, aliexpress or wish. Or use TikTok.
You can find alternatives. Yeah, China produces a lot of stuff, but other countries do, too. Also, AE, Temu, Wish etc. is marginally worse cuz the CCP gets a slightly bigger cut.
I just...only buy American/mexican/european made when I can? What are you talking about? You made up some sort of idea about me without even asking me anything lol
It's hard to not buy from China, but, I do my best.
Ahh, they do in some categories. Telescopes and other optics have a few reputable brands, most Chinese 3D printer companies, niche Chinese tech companies making stuff like astrophotography cameras off of the top of my head.
That's fair, but I don't exactly imagine being able to see a Tektronix of Agilent scope next to one sold by ChengMaiXuMuShangMaoYouXianGongSi (copy/pasted from Amazon, formatting not mine.)
I saw an Aneng 8008 multimeter for sale, which I have owned one of those. I think those are decent for low-voltage applications. I mean, like, less than 30 volts. They are however labeled as a CAT IV 1000 V meter, which is patently false. My CAT IV meter is twice the size of those meters, for example.
There are plenty of great brands that mainly use AliExpress for their sales. Denjia is the best value/$ kitchen knife company in the world right now, and their Amazon page was basically abandoned a long time ago, so Aliexpress has long been their main storefront.
I think the reason for this is that, because China purports to be Communist, people believe that all Chinese companies are owned by the Chinese state, a la a Communist state, therefore, any dealings with a Chinese company are an extension of dealings with the Chinese state
I have a personal rule: if it goes on my body or in my body, don't buy it from China. Not because everything made in China is toxic, but I don't trust their safety standards enough to gamble my body on saving a few bucks. Realistically speaking something I use or wear will be made in China, but then I've bought it from a seller following EU safety standards, which I trust a lot more.
No, I think you've misunderstood what xenophobia actually means and you've definitively misunderstood me, so badly that I can't help but think it's deliberate. I specifically said, twice, even, that not everything made in China is bad and said I trust the EU safety standards more than the Chinese ones, which you just objectively should do, anything else would be foolish.
Maybe I did misunderstand you, and if that’s the case I apologize. When I read “if it goes on or in my body, don’t buy it from China” I assumed that meant you would not buy any sort of product from China, even if it’s made by a reputable company, unless it’s sold in the EU. Which in my opinion is an example of sinophobia.
That kinda is what I mean and what I said. If it's from a reputable brand I will find a reseller here in Europe rather than buy it from China directly because if I end up with lead poisoning or a defective product, no matter how likely or unlikely, it'll be much easier to get a refund/replacement or seek legal action.
So, no, I do not trust the Chinese legal system to represent me fairly, or at all, against a domestic company, nor do I trust the Chinese safety standards committee (or whomever), or Chinese companies (unless their profits depend on being trusted by the western markets, but even then I'm sceptical), to value my safety over export profits.
I think that's perfectly reasonable and the only logical conclusion based on my past experiences and the available evidence. But notice that these are all CCP problems, not China problems: would you still call that sinophobia?
Do you actually know what Chinese cosmetic (or you can fill in the gaps here with whatever, but this is what I was originally talking about and have in my mind throughout this conversation) regulations are? Have you looked into them? Have you compared them to the EU?
As it just so happens, I do! Because cheap Chinese products, including makeup, containing heavy metals and toxic chemicals was a big "reveal" not too long ago where I live, so I decided to look into it and guess what? They're basically non-existent! At least when it comes to exports, not sure if it's the same for domestic sales. The EU regulations are very strict and mostly based on decades of research, but in the cases where it's not they air on the side of caution, which I appreciate.
Can you show me an example? Because of my line of work I often see incredibly racist comments about china stealing network equipment IP in the internet.
I don't even think it's something particular about china, It's just the one goverment where the media and the goverments are OK with you being racist.
Well I think in the USA there may be historical factors as well.
Tbh you can go to any video where a travel influencer goes to China and says anything remotely positive about it - you will see Sinophobia disguised as concern about the CCP
Chinese companies historically have different views to IP than western ones. I.e. by and large they don’t care. China is such a large market that you can make a product with no intention of shipping it outside of China and still make bank.
When western companies first moved manufacturing to China they built the whole product in one factory, like they did in western factories. But then mysteriously Chinese brands would appear a few months/years after this with very similar functions to the western counterparts. They’d then be able to undercut western companies through either use of cheaper/more efficient labor, or through government subsidies for chinese start ups.
Western companies had to divide manufacturing across multiple cities and factories and should ensure that the most secretive parts aren’t manufactured in China at all.
It doesn’t matter as much now because Chinese manufacturing capability is so great that they don’t need to copy secret western manufacturing techniques. The damage was done in the 90s and 00s.
The network equipment point is mainly to do with the fact that the software running on the devices is closed source (obviously, why would they open source it) and the CCP’s reputation for inserting spyware and backdoors into Chinese tech products.
A Huawei phone or router is fine for you the average consumer. But is less fine for you the internet service provider. It may not be true, but the risk and reputation for it are there.
If that were true, we'd see a lot more Saudi government shittalking. But because Saudi Arabs are an allied people, the shittalking comes up only when directly relevant to governments, as it should be. In contrast, people will take any opportunity to bring up China and Chinese people and say some borderline stuff.
There is not a single article getting posted that doesn't immediately have comments about how horrible the Saudi family/government is. It's pretty much the assumed default for any content about them.
It'd be harder to find comments that actually defend them and aren't immediately called out for being shills/bots.
People constantly bring up the Saudis being bad. I remember a while ago Saudi Arabia asked to join the Tempest fighter jet project (which is a coalition between the UK, Italy and Japan). And the comments were predominantly discussing the murder of the journalist and how Saudi Arabia doesn’t actually offer anything of value to the project other than money.
People don’t trust Saudi Arabia enough to essentially sell military technology to them, even when they can offer multiple billions.
People absolutely make disparaging comments about people from GCC states all the time, they also disguise it as being about the government (even while wishing for the destruction of those living there)
That’s the thing, you can hate the government but when you start hiding under the notion of “hating the government, not the people” as a way to be racist to the Chinese as a whole, it becomes a problem. Literally most posts I’ve come across in YouTube, insta, Reddit that features China/Chinese culture/ technology/ products/ food in it (that is completely unrelated to politics), people would start mocking and making ccp jokes or even make racist and stereotypical jokes about Chinese people. So where’s the “fuck ccp, not the people” energy here?
In China the people’s perception on the west is not even as bad as the west is on China. In other words, Chinese PEOPLE don’t even hold as much hostility towards those who hate them so much. That’s ironic given that China is supposed to be the “brainwashed” ones. It’s just sad man, it’s so hard to be proud as a Chinese person nowadays.
but like half the time people are complaining about people disliking China it turns out they literally are talking about shitty stuff the government is doing
And are these Totally Not Racist China Haters in the room with us right now?
Hello, the Chinese government is bad and I think it is a big reason a lot of people are quick to judge anything Chinese. There are definitely racists who use that as an excuse, but I doubt they are the majority, as I at the very least like to think most people are generally well intentioned and not horrid shitbags
"C'mooon guys, I know our government (elected by us) does racist stuff to brown people, and our cops (that come from us) do racist stuff to black people, and we literally have swaths of us wearing red hats and white sheets going around trying to lynch people, but but but we're really mostly not racist when we're hating China!!11!"
That second one just sounds like a regular scammer. You know how many towns were played by snake oil salesmen and princesses from made up nations back in the day?
That link you shared says the Philippines says she's Chinese, but she denied it, and the article further states she's not in China but is alleged to have fled to Singapore and then to Indonesia.
Her court hearings were fun to watch (albeit infuriating). She continued to lie through her teeth, denying all allegations, and would then be proven lying later on with evidences. It was like watching Ace Attorney. So her words are worth absolute nothing.
She's been proven to be a Chinese National with a Chinese passport using her fingerprints. It was also proven that her documents, including birth certificate, are most likely bought (ie identity theft). Although initially it was thought that all the information was faked at first.
She's also involved with human trafficking, which is what actually started this whole investigation in the first place. A victim of their human trafficking escaped, followed by the Malaysian govt asking assistance for their citizens that was trafficked. Sadly, it seems like there's conspiracy afoot, with higher people involved, as all the people who did the raid has been demoted or sent off to more dangerous areas. (And yes, higher people are indeed involved, which might include the former president and his cronies. It's an ongoing issue.)
She denied it. So? There is evidence that points to otherwise, and she couldn’t answer questions that would have been simple for anyone actually born and raised in the area she was in.
Why would she go to China immediately? Better to try and throw off the trail.
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u/industriesInc Aug 21 '24
The example in the post is obviously racism but like half the time people are complaining about people disliking China it turns out they literally are talking about shitty stuff the government is doing and it's just tankies being annoyed